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- [00:00]
Jack Wagner
This episode is brought to you by Thrive Market. You know it's more stressful than a packed calendar realizing you're out of coffee and the only thing left in your fridge is old takeout. That's why I love Thrive Market. I can order all of my groceries from my couch and set myself up for the week with all sorts of healthy food. Thrive Market makes it effortless. They restrict over a thousand sketchy ingredients so you can shop worry free knowing that you're not going to get any weird surprises in your food. No nasty stuff. Their on site filter makes shopping really easy too. If you want to search for high protein or low sugar or organic, you just click the box that's right for you and does the work for you. My last order included a restock on extra virgin olive oil, some coffee beans from Canyon Coffee, and Panda Puff cereal, which I always keep stocked. I know there's got to be some Panda Puffs eaters listening to this right now. All things that I normally hunt down from three different stores, but on Thrive Market they show up at my door in one box. They also have smart tools like the Healthy Swap Scanner that helps you find healthier versions of foods that you normally like eating. If you want to cut out processed sugar or seed oils or whatever it is that you're trying to cut out, you could find better options on Thrive Market. So go to thrivemarket.com otherworld to get 30% off your first order and a free $60 gift@thrivemarket.com otherworld you know what does not belong in your summer plans this year? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. While you're planning beach trips, barbecues, three day weekends, et cetera, your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back. That's why I made the switch to Mint Mobile. With Mint Mobile you get the coverage and speed that you're used to, but for way less money and for a limited time, Mint mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless for just $15 a month. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You could use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with you plus all your existing contacts. I was surprised how easy it was switching over to a new cell phone service. I am sure there are many full grown adults still somehow on their parents wireless plan. I'm not criticizing more power to you, but I'm telling you $15 a month with Mint Mobile. What more can you want? Mint Mobile is here for you this year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get this new customer offer and your three month unlimited wireless plan for just $15 a month at mintmobile.com otherworld that's mintmobile.com otherworld upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month limited time. New customer offer for the first three months only. Speed may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra C Mint Mobile site for details welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This episode kicks off a two part story that we have for you. Coming from a woman named Cecilia, I'm very excited about this series. We've been working on it for quite some time. Cecilia has an incredible family story which she will share herself, but a major part of that story involves her family's strong connection to spiritism. Cuban spiritism, to be more specific. Spiritism is a spiritual practice founded by Alan Kardec in France in the 1850s. This is not to be confused with spiritualism, which is American, although there are many similarities between the two. Spiritism is a bit more codified with a clear set of philosophy and beliefs, whereas spiritualism is more of a practice. Spiritism involves the belief in the immortality of the soul and the possibility of communication with spirits through mediums. It's sort of meant to supplement other religious beliefs, not replace them. When spiritism arrived in Cuba from France in the 19th century, it really took off and it also took on a life of its own, basically combining with existing cultural practices and traditions that existed in Cuba at the time. Back in the day, Cecilia's great grandmother, along with her great grandmothers in 18 siblings, were all very involved in spiritism. Cecilia's grandmother grew up around this and definitely attended some seances, but never really practiced it herself as an adult. And then Cecilia's mother ended up leaving the country when she was 26 and Cecilia was just 4. They moved to Chile where her mom became an engineer. For that reason, these beliefs were really not a big part of Cecilia's life when she was growing up. However, that all changed when Cecilia was an adult, and that's really what this story is all about. I'm gonna let her explain all of that herself. This episode is called the Spiritist Part 1, and you're listening to Otherworld. Hello, is this Bobby?
- [05:30]
Cecilia
Yes.
- [05:31]
Jack Wagner
It is at its core, the science. You can't arg Cuban.
- [05:34]
Cecilia
I'm storied about up in the Sky.
- [05:37]
Jack Wagner
It's almost frustrating that it's happening. I'm literally I'm going to Die limbs were just like, wrong.
- [05:43]
Cecilia
Everybody moves back into the night Even if it takes them a minute. My name is Cecilia. I live in Los Angeles. I moved here from New York less than a year ago. And I'm a filmmaker. So I mostly do productions and, you know, feature films and also advertising. That's what I do on my day to day. So I was born in Cuba, in Havana. My mom is Cuban and my dad is from Chile. And When I was 5, my mom and I moved to Chile, where I grew up. I went to school there and I studied film there. And I always wanted to live in New York and to, you know, make films all over the world. So in 2018, I came to New York to study a Master in Film, Fine Arts in Filmmaking and Creative production. And then I stayed there. I met my husband, and last year we moved to la just because of me, you know, like, I wanted to pursue film more. I think I have really good memories of my first years in Cuba. And I'm very much connected to Cuba. I mean, I've been there several times since I left, and half of my family still lives there. For me, growing up in Cuba, you know, it was like I had my mom, my grandmother, and my great grandmother. We all lived together. I just had, you know, like, maybe the, you know, the circumstances, the economy was tough, but I didn't really see any of that. Just I had such a nice time. I had my cousin with me. He's also Cuban. He's like one year younger. So, you know, we had a really nice childhood. And I just remember just going to the beach and, like, watching movies with my grandma. She just had so many VHS tapes that she would rent from people. And in the summers, I would just like, eternally watch one after another. And I think that's what made me fall in love with film. And then when I was five, my mom decided to move to Chile. She's an engineer. And so she was thinking in the future, you know, big picture, like how we couldn't have had the same kind of life in Cuba, the same kind of opportunities. So she took a big step and she moved with me alone to Chile. And for context, my dad had died, you know, before I was born. That's why we were alone. But she had, like, the visa to go to Chile, and I had the citizenship. So when I moved to Chile, it was a huge cultural shock because Cuba is like, you know, a very tropical country, very social. And Chile is very cold in, you know, in the winter, it's very cold. We arrived in the Winter. And everything is different. You know, the people, the foods, and even, you know, we. We speak Spanish, but the words are very, very different. So I started going to a public school there, and I had a lot of, like, problems, I think, at first, like, adapting to it. At that time in Chile, there were not a lot of immigrants. There were not a lot of people who were from different countries. So being from Cuba was like, something very exotic. They didn't know what Cubans were, but I think in their minds, they had this association with, like, Santeria and like, the Yoruba religion and all that. So. So they were saying my mom was a witch and that we were witches. And I had no idea of what they were talking about. But one day I was just like, you know what? Yes, my mom is a witch. And I was six. I was like, she's a witch. And tonight when you go to bed, all your hair is going to fall in the pillow and it will never grow back again. And that girl started crying. She had, like, a panic attack. And I was like, oh, my God, what have I done? And then they called my mom in, and then they asked her if she was a witch. That's. Yeah, that's how I guess convinced I was. And my mom was like, no, I'm an engineer. I'm not a witch. So. But that was, like, the process of, like, getting acquainted with Chilean culture. But then, you know, like, everything became more normal, and you find yourself in a place. It's just like when you are an immigrant, you have this feeling that you never fully belong anywhere. You know, you're like, from here, from there. And I think when I moved to New York, I felt really comfortable because of that, because New York is full of people from everywhere. So I was like, okay, no one cares. I guess the kids in Chile who were saying my mom was a witch, they were right. And something in me kind of knew it when I was so convinced, because there's a connection there, you know, like witcher, spiritist or medium, I don't know exactly what, but there's something there, and it comes through my great grandmother and that side of the family. My great grandmother, she was part of the spiritist movement in Cuba. Her grandfather and her father were the founders of a spiritist center in the city where she was born. This place is called Monte Oscuro, and it still exists today, and they still carry sciences and healings. During her childhood, and she lived in the countryside of Cuba, and she was the oldest of 18 siblings. So life wasn't so easy at the time she had a couple of brothers that died. And then in the house, there was an electric light. So when the power was off at night, and her mom would go around the house with a candle to count all the kids and make sure everybody was there after her mom was gone and everything was dark, my great grandmother could see lights. And then those lights were the spirits of her brothers who were back to talk to her. And so that's, I think, how her father realized that she had a gift. Her father, sometimes he would go to someone's house and that person was sick, and he really believed in the power of the mind. And he. One of the core beliefs of spiritism is that we are perfect beings, so whatever is wrong with us, we can fix it with our mind. And he would just go and sit with that person, not touch them or anything and just heal them. This was in Cuba in the 1920s, 1930s. So this is pre revolution, pre Fidel Castro, you know, completely like a different social context as well. And, you know, like, the spiritism was very, very connected also with, like, independent and revolutionary ideas. Some of my great grandmother's siblings were, like, part of the revolution and all that story. So I think it's interesting how those things link up together. My great grandmother was always like a more reserved and quiet kind of person. And she always had this connection or this gift with the spirits. And when my great grandmother, you know, she was in, like, her 30s and she was married, had two kids, and she saw that her husband, who was 42 at the time, would die, and there was nothing to do to stop that. She just saw it was going to happen, and then it happened, and she was a widow. So she asked for her gift to go away because she didn't want to suffer more. She didn't want to foresee things and experience pain twice. And I think, like, that made her gift partially blocked. I don't think it ever went away, but she chose not to see more. So this wasn't a huge part of my mom's life. As my great grandmother didn't bring her daughters to senses. They participated in a few, but because she chose not to see anymore, this wasn't a huge part of my grandma's life or my mom's. I mean, at that time, then my grandma had kids, and then they were all in the science fields, so no one was really allotting to spirituality. And then they moved to Havana, and they just lived lives that were not connected to spiritism. I mean, they knew about their past, but they were not active Participants of spiritism. Spiritism wasn't a part of my life. I knew about my grandma, and sometimes she would talk about things that she saw or family members, or, most importantly, I think, at that time, her dreams. When I was a teenager, I was really into punk music. So that was my thing. Anarchism and destroy the system. That was my thing, my main focus in life at the moment. So I played drums, you know, bad. And I was just like, you know, I think spiritism, it's okay, but I truly don't believe in anything. That was my. My view of it when I was growing up. There was always something in me that really felt there was kind of like a truth to it. But I guess my ideas of the world didn't align with believing in something else, because I was like, well, if I believe in this, then I have to believe in God, you know, like, you're growing up, so you really don't have a lot of nuances to things. Especially because I was a punk rocker and an anarchist. So I was like, you know, black or white. But then I understood a lot of more things. And I always took my great grandmother seriously. I didn't take my mom serious. Like, my mom sometimes would have intuitions. And I think because, you know, I was, like, 15, I would try to rebel against that. Whenever I didn't listen to her, like, something not good ended up happening. Like, I remember once, it was like a weekend, and I wanted to go with my friends, we were like, 16, to this fair where they sell clothes and, like, secondhand stuff. And my mom was like, please don't go. Like, I have a really bad feeling. Don't go. And I was like, you know, like, fuck it, I'll go. I didn't tell my mom, I think, that I was going. I just made up an excuse and I went with my friends, and we went there, and it was crowded. The place was crowded. So many people. And we bought, like, a leather jacket that was really old. And I think someone thought we had some money. And that guy. It was a guy, he chased us, me and my friend, like, away from the crowd, and he tried to rob us. And so he was like. He pulled a knife, and it was like a makeshift knife. It was, like, really scary. And he was like, give me everything you have. And I was like, we don't have money. And he was like, I want that jacket. And my friend was like, no. And then the guy tried to stab her, and she put her hand in front of her face and. And the guy stabbed her in the Hand. And I saw the knife come out the other way. And I was, like, freaking out immediately was a lot of blood running everywhere. And the guy, I think he freaked out as well. And he ran, he left. And I was like, shit. So we went to a hospital nearby, and I was like, okay, this is the moment where I have to call my mom and tell her that I did exactly what she told me not to. I called her and she came immediately. And she was like, what did I tell you? There's, like, a couple of moments when I started taking it a bit more serious, but still, I don't think I thought, oh, this is like a full thing. But when I started studying film, I was 18, and I made a documentary about my dad who had died because I had never met him. All that I was using to make the documentary was old pictures and Super 8 videos that he himself had recorded. So it's like really old, really ghostly film. And I was just interviewing people to try to get an idea of him. I wanted to make my own idea of him through people. The way that my dad dies, it's kind of particular. He was Chilean, but he grew up part of his life in Cuba. Because in Chile, after the dictatorship in the 70s, when Pinochet took over, my grandma, my dad's side, had to move to Cuba with her two kids, my dad and his brother. And so he grew up there, and that's how he met my mom. But he was always, like, involved in political movements that were fighting against dictatorships in the 80s. So he was really into that. When he met my mom, he didn't tell her that he was, but eventually he did. So he would go and fight in Nicaragua and El Salvador against dictatorships. His goal was to come back to Chile one day and defeat the dictator. At the time, he was really, really young. This is, like, early 20s, so also like a different context. Very idealistic guy. And my mom and him got married. I think they were 23. And they stayed married for three years. And then my mom was pregnant, and she asked him to stop doing this because she was like, you know, I need a husband by my side. I don't want, like, a war hero or anything like that. And this was like, 89. And he got called to one more of these missions when my mom was pregnant, and she was like, please don't go. And he was like. He felt so committed to his ideas. And he told her, this is going to be my last, you know, and then after this, I won't do it anymore. And it was his Last. You know, I think, like, I didn't feel a lot his answers throughout my life because I had such a. Like, an amazing childhood and growing up. But then when I started making movies and I made this documentary about them, like, I realized how much it actually means, you know, what happened and how this is connected to spiritism is because my great grandmother, who at the time lived with my mom, who was pregnant with me before we even found out about my dad's death, one night she saw him coming into the house. He was in El Salvador. That's where he died. But she saw him coming into the house, and he was completely naked. And he looked very lost, and he looked very scared, completely, like, disoriented. And he went to her room, to my great grandmother's room, and he threw himself on top of her and kind of, like, hug her. And she, in that moment, knew that he was dead, that that's the moment when he died. And I think my mom was, like, pretty close to give birth. So of course she didn't tell my mom. She told my aunts, and my aunts were like, don't say that. You know, do not say that. And three months later, this was in November, then we got the official news that he had died. And he died in the middle of the jungle. So we never got, like, his body or we don't really know exactly, you know, what happened, but, I mean, it's impossible to have anything back. And I don't know exactly the place. It's just like the jungle. So that's how that happened. And I guess it's like, for me, my life, the first moment that I can say that spiritism had something more concrete. And it wasn't through me, but it was through my great grandmother, who already knew this and how it was going to play out. I was 19 when I started noticing more of the spiritism in my family through the interview in the documentary and my great grandmother's dream. But when I first saw it with my own eyes and I experienced it was in 2013. I was 23. I'm finishing my bachelor's in film directing, and I was living in my mom's apartment. We were living together with my mom and my brothers. And it was my final year, so I was pretty much focused on doing my thesis. We also had my cousin Alejandro living with us. He had come from Cuba, like, I think two years before. Like, in 2011. He was working as a bartender. I was 23, he was 22, maybe. So we were pretty young, you know, like, he's like redhead, freckles, wears glasses. He's always had so much energy and so he's always been like a guy with like a lot of personality. And he. That's why I think he was so great with people. I think like, in those years he was also in search of his identity and his future. Moving to a new country can be really disorienting sometimes, and especially when you're so young. So I think, like, there was some moments where there was a lot of friction between the two of us because I didn't understand where he was and I didn't understand he didn't understand where I was at. But we've always been siblings, we're close. And he was living with me and my family. His mom and his sister and dad were back in Cuba. And I think at that time he was grounding himself more. And I don't know how things happened. He had so many moments of being lost and kind of messy. And now he was like finally like finding himself coming into like a more organized and stable life. And he was working in a restaurant as a bartender. I remember one night I was home and I was writing my thesis. It was like 11pm I remember because I was looking at the screen of the computer, you know, and my mom told me she had gotten a phone call and that my cousin had had an accident and he was in the hospital. So I was like, okay. Like, I didn't really think it was something serious. And my mom didn't really think or knew anything about that, that it could be something serious. So she just went and I just kept writing. And then I kind of like time went by so fast. I looked at the clock and it's like 4am and I noticed my mom is not back. And that's when I knew this was something else, that this was something serious. So my mom came back that morning, like at 6am she told us what had happened. And I just remember we got dressed and we just went to the hospital. And that's like the first time I saw him after, you know, the accident. So what happened was that after he finished working, he went out with some friends. And then they walked by a fountain, a big fountain. And they were like betting against, like, I dare you to do this, I dare you to do that. And someone there, my cousin, to jump in. And he jumped head first, but the water was really, really shallow. So he broke his neck. He broke his neck in a place that is really high up. So that instantly made him lose movement and feeling on his legs. And then throughout the night. And I learned this after the doctors gave us more information. He lost movement on his arms, too. This also affected everything else, like his breathing, his heart, you know, like, when that happens, I guess your body loses control of itself a little bit. The only thing that was working well, I guess, was his brain. But we didn't really know what to expect. This is also the first time that I had experienced something like that with someone in my family. Like this kind of accident, something so serious. He was in a really bad state. Basically, he was between life and death. It was pretty shocking to see him. He had, like, cast around his neck, but it was like, kind of like a big thing with a lot of, like, cables and machines. The only thing I could do was cry. I didn't really know what to say. He seemed to be in better spirits than the rest of us. His head. He was fully aware of everything. But I guess we were all shocked. The doctors didn't want to give, like, an official diagnosis or, like, he's going to lie. He's going to live or die because they didn't know, like, this was so serious that they couldn't really know what was going to happen the next day. So it was kind of like an hour by hour situation.
- [29:09]
Jack Wagner
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- [35:11]
Cecilia
So during those days we would say spent each day in the hospital and at night at that point his mom, my cousin's mom, and his sister were already there. My grandmother also came. It was kind of like the whole family together going through this experience. And every night, because we didn't know what was going to happen the next day, we would come together in a room and try to envision my cousin recovering and getting better and him healthy again as he was before the accident. And my grandmother had this spiritist book that she inherited from her mom, my great grandmother. And that book has some prayers. So she would read from the book and we would just listen. The kind of prayers that are in this book, I think the book is called like spiritist prayers or something like that. So this book is from the 1800s. It mentions a lot of God. But I think the Spanish version, which is the one that might mom has, is more focused on the spirits. So the things that she was reading, it's in Spanish and I remember the Spanish words, but to put it in English, it's mostly like there's no evil that can affect us because this house is full of light and we are perfect spirits. We are creatures of good. Therefore there's nothing that can, you know, no negative force, no negative thoughts that can interfere with us. Our minds are beautiful. And then from that text, that's what's in the text. My grandmother would just sometimes mention my cousin's name and say, alejandro is perfect. He was born perfect and he's a perfect spirit. Therefore there's nothing that can be wrong with him. And that's the kind of text that's in the book. Like the kind of prayers. Not like. Like a regular prayer, if you might say, but it's like affirmations. We just hold hands and think about him and him getting better. Just try to send as much good energy as possible. And we have done that, I want to say, for like two or three weeks. I don't remember exactly. And one of these nights we just went back. This became our routine. This all happened in my bedroom. This is like a regular medium sized bedroom. And I think my bed was there. We moved the bed to the side so we could sit on the floor. We were around six people. My mom, myself, my aunt, Alejandro's mom, and then my other aunt was there, my younger brother, who was 13 at the time. So my grandma was reading from the book and she was saying, you know, like, we are creatures of light. And I was in my head trying to picture my cousin, how he was before the accident, him walking, him standing or laughing. Just like, try to envision him as a healthy person. And then I remember I opened my eyes and I look to my side and I see that my mom is acting a bit strange. Her head is sometimes nodding, sometimes it's like shaking. And her demeanor was off. She still was my mom, but there was something in her face and the way that she was gesturing or frowning sometimes that was very unfamiliar. After one minute, I think more people also noticed something was going off. And so my grandma stopped reading for a moment. And I was just asking my mom, mom, mom, are you okay? And she just wouldn't respond. And that made me anxious and made me, like, scared because it's the, you know, like my mom always responds to me when I ask her something. So like she was completely ignoring me. And then I remember she opened her eyes, but even though she was looking at me, I could feel like she wasn't really looking at me. It was like she was looking through me. You know, it's like her essence, if I could put it into words, was not there. And she, I think looked around the room a couple of times and then she stared at my grandmother. And the first thing she said was like, don't be afraid, don't be scared. He's not going to die. And at that point I didn't know what was happening. I had no idea. And then she looked at my little brother and she asked, who is this? And my brother was like, I'm your son, what are you talking about? And he was a bit offended because his mom didn't know who he was. And then I think my grandmother put the pieces together and she realized that it was my great grandmother's spirit in my mom's body. I think my brother was very young when my great grandmother died. When or you know, we lived in different countries, the only interactions they had was when he was a little kid. So it makes sense that she didn't remember him older. Like she didn't got to know him at that age. And also like, you know, like they didn't spend a lot of time together. So I guess this kind of alerted my grandmother that this was my great grandmother. And the way she spoke was like, if she was frustrated or upset with us because there was so much fear, especially on my grandma. She was crying a lot and you know, we were all super scared. But it's like no one wants to say it out loud because you don't want to ever think the worst. And my mom, who I guess was my great grandmother at the time, she was like, don't be scared. Why are you so scared? And she was really firm, a bit aggressive. Even when I saw that, I was really a bit like scared for my mom because I didn't understand what was happening to her. I wonder if she was like, I don't know, like, okay, if she was like having an episode of like a mental breakdown or something. But I just was scared from my mom. Like I wasn't scared of spirits or anything. Also, I knew my great grandmother. I know that she's a great person. So I was just, I guess worried about my mom's well being after she started talking with my grandma. I just kind of at some point had to surrender to what was happening and just go into the experience, because up until that point, I was just trying to get my mom back. And I wasn't listening to what she was saying. But then I was just like, okay, you know, like, let. Let's see what happened. And I just got quiet. And she kept talking to my grandma. And she was. Kept saying, don't be scared. He's not going to die. And she was also saying, he's not alone in that room. He has the spirit of Manola Lopez. And Manolo Lopez was my great grandmother's dad. And he has these other family members there. And so she was naming all the family spirits that were with my cousin, and they were taking care of him while we were at home. And she was saying, he's not alone. He's not going to be alone. Don't be scared. Like, when you're scared, it just makes things worse. And my grandmother was acting like if she was a little child again. And I guess she was really happy to see her mom. My grandmother was, like, smiling, and she somehow positioned herself to be looking up to my mom. So I guess she hunched a little bit so it looks in the circle of people, we were all sitting on the floor. Like, if she was shorter than my mom, which she's not, and she was just looking up at her and her eyes were, like, illuminated. She was calling her mom. She said, mom, how are you? Mom this, mom that. And I was like, she's calling mom to my mom. And she would try to hold her hand and touch her. Like, I think she tried to hug her, but my mom pushed back, you know, like she was really firm on what she was trying to say on the message. The message was that my cousin wasn't going to lie, that, you know, this was a really tough situation. But the only thing that could, let's say, save him or make him better was family being united and us not having fear. This is. Kept going for 10 minutes or so. And I just, you know, even though I was trying to be fully in the experience, at some point, I just wanted my mom back. I was really concerned about her body moving that way or she looked really tired. The movements that she was making, it was like, you know, shaking her head sometimes. And from my perspective, it looks like more aggressive than I would have liked. I don't know, it's just like, so subjective because it's not like she was banging herself against the wall, but because you know that something is off, you're looking at every single detail. And I was like, my mom doesn't Shake her head like that. Or her shoulders don't shrug like that. She would like shrug her shoulders, like up and then down and up and then down. Or she would not. And sometimes in between words, in between, when she was saying some things, it was like if she was talking to someone else, she was like, no, no. Or like she was responding to someone. And that I think was the detail that freaked me out the most or scared me because I was like, who else? You know, like, what's happening? You know, who is she talking to? Or like she would get quiet for a couple of seconds and like frown really hard or like her mouth would twist. It's not things or movements that you. On a day to day thing, you think, oh, this can be harmful. But when you're like in a moment like that and it's your mom, everything goes through your head. Like at first I was like, is she having a stroke? Or like, is she having a mental breakdown? You know, like you run every possibility in your head so fast before you can accept or give yourself up to the experience. Because I think you try to justify what you try to rationalize and understand what's happening in the moment. I also remember my brother being scared. And I was like, in my head I wanted to transmit to him some peace and calm, but I couldn't because I wasn't calm. You're trying to understand something that you've never seen before, but also it's happening to your mom. So that's like a really big deal to me. My mom, you know, like, we're really, really close. So like I. I wouldn't want anything to happen to her. So I guess if it was someone else, you have like two degrees of separation or when you hear these stories, you're like, oh, you know, like, I don't know. But when it's so close to you, someone that you love so much, and there's also so much pain and fear in the environment because of the circumstances. For me that was like a bit too much like I didn't want to risk my mom for being in this experience. So even though I love my great grandmother and I don't think that she would ever do anything to harm my mom in that moment. I just wanted it to stop. And I think like everybody else in the room was feeling the same, except for my grandma, who I guess was. She kept trying to talk with her mom more and she was trying to get more details of what spirits were there. And at that point I was just like, you know, this needs to stop. And I Tried to call my mom for her name. Her name is Cecilia. And I was like, mom, Mom. And then Cecilia. And she wouldn't respond. And then it was one of her sisters who was there who started asking my great grandmother to leave. And she was like, abuela, you know, it's time to leave. And she was like, we're gonna listen to you. We're gonna. We're not scared anymore. And then that's how we managed to bring my mom back. The change was like she just closed her eyes. And I think I remember her head went down to her chest, and then she looked up, and she was there again, like, her, you know, essence was back. When I looked at her and she looked at me, it was like we recognized each other again. And I knew my mom was back. And I was so relieved. I was like, okay, we didn't lose her forever. She's here, and she seems normal. She was very exhausted. She had, like, a lot of sensitivity towards the light. She didn't remember what she had said, but she knew someone had put messages or words in her mouth, and, like, she was saying it, and somehow she knew it was her great grandmother, I think it was. And she can tell you this better, but I think my aunt asked her what happened, and she just said my great grandmother's name. After that, we stayed up talking for a couple of hours to try to understand what had happened. And then my mom asked us to keep this private. She didn't want us to tell this to our friends or to her friends. She. I didn't want to mention this. She's an engineer, you know, she works in a very, you know, stressful job. I don't imagine her saying this, like, to anyone over coffee, you know, or at least at that time. So I think she was a bit ashamed of it. I don't know. You have to ask her that. But I think she was a bit ashamed of it, of, like, being this person who had this experience. So after that, we kept doing the same routine. Days in the hospital, nights all together, meditating about my cousin. And that didn't happen again. My cousin, he survived. He's alive now, and I hope that he listens to this when he can. He wasn't able to regain movement in his body. Body, but he's like, you know, fully. Like, his head works perfectly. And, you know, he lives in Cuba with his mom and his sister. So even though it was, like, a long, long recovery, and like, we spent almost a year in the hospital, back and forth, and it wasn't easy, he made It. The alts were not good. And I think, you know, he was meant to be here. So that was really profound. And I think, looking back, it was what we needed, and it gave us the strength to continue navigating these days where, you know, nothing was clear to us and our lives were upside down. But at least we knew that he was gonna be okay. Like, after, you know, having that and having my great grandmother come and say, he's going to survive. Don't be scared. I guess at least I. Every time I would let fear, like, get the best of my thoughts, I would think about that. And when I think about that, I don't think about my mom shaking or twitching. I think about my great grandmother, which is the crazy part about this. Beliefs are never solid, you know, for me. You know, you always question things, and you go back and you're like, well, maybe, you know, it was just like, in the moment, we were so emotional and this happened. But then, you know, there are things at the same time that I was like, I cannot explain, you know, what my mom said or how she was, you know, in this state. And so I kind of, like, was fine with accepting whatever this was. It could have been the spirit could also. Maybe my mom, like, had an emotional crisis. But whatever it was, I felt it was something beyond our plane. You know, whatever it was, like, whatever that message came from, I just decided to accept it for what it was, which was, like, what we needed to go through and to survive that period. But this is not the only time that this was going to happen.
- [54:52]
Jack Wagner
That brings us to the end of this episode and the end of part one. But it's not over. You can hear the rest of Cecelia's story in part two. You know, obviously, this whole thing is incredible for many reasons, but as Cecilia told the story, I found myself being so captivated by even just the backstory of her family. And it's a bit shocking and hard for me to relate to as an American who grew up, you know, in the 90s, especially the story of her father, like, the concept of going off to fight for something you believe in, the way he did at such a young age, that's just so far away from anything I was going through or anything anybody I knew was going through. In my early 20s, I mean, I think everybody I knew was working at sandwich shops and just trying to figure out what they wanted to do with their life. The idea of going off to fight in a revolution, it's hard to wrap my head around. I mean, of course, people join the military and all, but this is completely different. By the way, Cecilia made a film about her father. It's a short documentary. If you want to watch that, I'm going to put a link to it in the description of this episode. There aren't any spoilers for part two contained in the film. If you're interested in learning more about her dad or seeing Cecilia's work, you go check it out. That brings us to the end of this episode. This episode has been called the Spiritist Part 1 and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. This episode was produced by Haley Pearson. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by North Americans. This episode was edited by Haley Pearson and engineered by Theo Schaeffer. Our artwork is by Cul de Sac Studios. Nikki Kate Delgado is our Associate producer. Please show us your support support by subscribing, leaving a five star review and telling your friends about Otherworld. If you want to hear bonus episodes of the show, become a patron@patreon.com Otherworld Our social media is Otherworldpod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey. Leah Rhys Dennis, Rob Morandi, Eric Donnelly, Maura Curran, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor, Michael Lavey, Josephina Francis and Hilary Schuff. Follow and listen to other Work World now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural or unexplained, you could send us your story at stories@otherworldpod.com.
- [57:43]
Cecilia
Did I put the clothes in the dryer?
- [57:45]
Jack Wagner
I hope they don't think I was.
- [57:46]
Cecilia
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