Podcast Summary: Otherworld, Episode 138: ZAZA

Release Date: October 13, 2025
Host: Jack Wagner
Guest/Narrator: Kendra
Main Theme: A firsthand account of a teenage obsession with the Ouija board in 1990s small-town Wyoming, focusing on unnerving supernatural experiences linked to an entity named "Zaza."

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jack Wagner presents the story of Kendra, who, as a teen in rural Wyoming during the mid-1990s, became entangled in a series of increasingly intense and disturbing Ouija board experiences. What began as innocent fun with friends morphed into an obsession, culminating in encounters with a menacing presence named "Zaza." Kendra’s detailed recollection weaves together the nostalgia of her small-town upbringing with chilling, paranormal events, raising provocative questions about the nature of Ouija boards and the risks of using them.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: 1990s Wyoming & Boredom (04:10–10:00)

• Kendra describes her small-town upbringing—music-filled, with not much to do but hang out with friends, play instruments, and look for adventure.
• In 1996, at age 15, inspired by a fascination with the Beatles, she and friends buy a Ouija board to try contacting John Lennon.
• Quote: “At first that just kind of intrigued us to keep playing. You know, we kept wanting to come back for more because we got evidence that this thing was really happening.” (15:50, Kendra)

The Ouija Board Escalates: From Fun to Disturbing (10:00–24:00)

• Early sessions are lighthearted—until a dramatic incident: a John Lennon photo falls off the wall as they attempt to contact his spirit, heightening their curiosity.
• Venues for Ouija sessions include a small shack once occupied by a deceased local cowboy and a trailer near a scrapyard—Arnie's—where increasingly intense events take place.
• A memorable overnight session changes everything: the planchette moves rapidly and violently, repeatedly spelling "Zaza," followed by strings of unintelligible letters and backwards writing.
• The atmosphere turns sinister: candles blow out, the planchette “flies” across the room, and someone claims to see red eyes in the darkness.
• Quote: "All of a sudden the candle blows out and the planchette flies off of the board, like directly across the whole room...We all just screamed and were like, did somebody do that?... It flew all the way to the other corner of the room." (18:25, Kendra)

The Entity "Zaza": Patterns and Manifestations (24:00–36:00)

• Kendra and friends document everything in a Ouija journal, noting Zaza's habit of spelling things backwards—sometimes listing their names, countdowns, and ominous threats ("you two are dead").
• Zaza's interactions are distinct: frantic, circular planchette movement and a sense of heavy, watchful presence.
• Sexual and disturbing messages, often spelled out in reverse, convince the girls that it isn't simply a mischievous peer influencing the board.
• Contact with other, seemingly benign spirits is frequent, but Zaza interrupts and overwhelms these sessions.
• A recurring “good spirit,” Steve, tries to ward off Zaza but is often overpowered.

Real-World Effects and Escalating Obsession (36:00–45:00)

• The Ouija board's predictions increasingly come true—especially negative ones. It forecasts minor events and, dramatically, the breakups of both Kendra and her best friend with their boyfriends, to the day.
• The girls become obsessed, playing in any spare moment—even making homemade Ouija cards, unable to break the compulsion despite rising unease.
• Quote: "It would spell out some absolutely evil things back to us that us innocent girls...haven’t experienced yet...It just kind of reaffirmed that, you know, this was not coming from, you know, my best friend that’s playing with me." (32:25, Kendra)

Disruption of Reality: Physical Phenomena & Group Witnesses (30:48–40:00)

• The group observes physical disruptions: radio dials twitching, electronics acting up, and a high school movie night projection shutting off moments after they challenge the board to do it—shocking peers.
• Quote: "We asked the spirit, shut off the movie, and it said okay. And all of a sudden, everything goes dark. The whole place goes black." (41:45, Kendra)

The Breaking Point: Psychological Toll and Ending the Ritual (42:00–50:00)

• Kendra describes a dark cloud settling over her group—growing depression, malaise, and detachment from daily life.
• Family notices; Kendra’s mother intervenes, urging her to stop.
• Sleep paralysis episodes begin, including a vision of an older version of herself hovering above her bed.
• The girls attempt to rid themselves of the board per vague instructions found in a scarce library book, asking a third party to dispose of it. However, the Ouija board mysteriously returns beneath Kendra’s bed.
• Quote: "I opened it up, and the Ouija board is back in its box under my bed. My heart just sunk...There was something that we opened up that obviously didn’t want to be closed." (48:50, Kendra)

Cleansing & Moving On (50:00–56:00)

• The final expulsion involves her mother burying the board and the ritual destruction of the Ouija journal (boiling, shredding, and burial).
• Kendra seeks prayer from a friend’s pastor, marking her closure of the experience.

Jack Wagner’s Reflections & Greater Context (57:39–End)

• Jack contextualizes "Zaza" within the broader "Zozo" phenomenon—an entity reported by countless people using Ouija boards, popularized years later online.
• Notably, Kendra’s experience predates Internet awareness of "Zozo," making her case especially compelling.
• Jack emphasizes that, though scientific and psychological explanations exist, these don’t entirely account for the complexity and consistency of the stories.
• Quote: "I will not be trying a Ouija board myself. I don’t think you should either. It seems like a lose-lose situation to me, but I do like hearing the stories." (01:01:59, Jack Wagner)

Notable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• “Maybe it was just a coincidence, I don't know. But...for that to happen just seemed to be like such a... It couldn't be a coincidence.” (15:50, Kendra)
• “All of a sudden the candle blows out and the planchette flies off of the board, like directly across the whole room...It flew all the way to the other corner.” (18:25, Kendra)
• "It spelled their names out first backwards. So...as soon as we realized, oh my gosh, it is communicating to us backwards...you two are dead." (20:27, Kendra)
• "We asked the spirit, shut off the movie, and it said okay. And all of a sudden, everything goes dark." (41:45, Kendra)
• "I opened it up, and the Ouija board is back in its box under my bed. My heart just sunk...There was something that we opened up that obviously didn’t want to be closed." (48:50, Kendra)
• "I just felt like I needed cleansed or something...I just needed some good, somebody to, like, pray for me. And I needed somebody that I could confide in and just say, ‘Hey, I was—I opened up something that was truly evil, and can you just pray for me and help me to put this in the past?’" (53:00, Kendra)
• “The amount of Ouija board stories we get submitted to the show is really alarming.” (57:39, Jack Wagner)
• "I will not be trying a Ouija board myself. I don’t think you should either. It seems like a lose-lose situation to me, but I do like hearing the stories." (01:01:59, Jack Wagner)

Conclusion

Episode Takeaway:
Kendra’s story is a powerful reflection on curiosity, vulnerability, and the lure of the unknown. It forces listeners to consider the possibility that playful supernatural exploration with something like a Ouija board can have psychological, social, and perhaps more mysterious consequences. Her experience stands out both for its vivid real-world effects and its eerie connection to a phenomenon that would not be widely recognized until long after her story took place.

For listeners interested in the supernatural or the sociological impact of paranormal experiences, “ZAZA” is a detailed, chilling, and thought-provoking episode that will linger long after it’s over.