B (4:01)

I'm so worried about up in the Sky.

A (4:04)

It's almost frustrating that it's happening.

B (4:05)

I'm literally.

A (4:06)

I'm gonna die. Its limbs were just, like, wrong.

B (4:10)

Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them a minute. I'm Kendra. I've been living in Idaho for about 11 years. 12 years. I'm in the banking industry. Love the outdoors, Love living in Idaho and, you know, fly fishing. I'm also a musician. Play the mandolin and piano and a little bit of percussion. Just all the things just for fun and, yeah, like, just loving life here. So I lived my whole childhood and grew up in a small central Wyoming town, kind of the base of the Wind River Mountains. Very, very small town. You know, about 9,000 people, right on the edge of the Wind River Reservation. So a lot of Native American history there. A lot of mountain men. You know, there's, like, a rendezvous site nearby. So a lot of history. It's a really cool area to grow up in. So this all took place leading into my freshman year of high school. So I think I was around 15, going into 16 years old, and I had a few really close friends that we'd been, you know, hanging out, you know, just doing normal high school stuff. Going into high school, this is, like, 1996. I would say 95, 96. So, you know, a lot of the, like, grunge music was really in. That's kind of what we were listening to, you know, like, bush and Weezer and, you know, Stone Temple Pilots and that kind of stuff. So we were really into like, you know, we had guitars and a drum kit and we were just, you know, playing music for fun. Was really into the Beatles at the time too, and just like old school rock and roll, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, that kind of stuff. So, you know, we were just kids in the 90s and you know, we would get bored, you know, we, we didn't have a lot to do, we didn't have the Internet, you know, so we were always just looking for things to get into. You know, prank calling people, driving around town, just meeting up at the local parking lot where everybody hung out. It was a pretty fun time, I think. Like, I loved growing up in my small little town. Like I said, I was really into the Beatles at the time and I was kind of obsessed with them actually. And you know, my friends were mildly interested in the Beatles as well. But, you know, this is the summer leading into high school and we were really bored and looking for things to, to do. And so I decided, hey, what if we got a Ouija board and tried to contact John Lennon? So all kind of in good fun in the beginning. We really just, you know, we're trying to go into it kind of in a light hearted way. Like, how cool would it be if John Lennon came through to talk to us? So we decided we'd go down to the local Kmart and pick up a Ouija board out of the game section. You know, I just took it back to my, my bedroom. I had like a ton of like Beatles memorabilia and things in there. And we were like, okay, we're really going to try and concentrate and try and contact John Lennon at first. You know, we're sitting in my, in my bedroom on my bed, and there were I think maybe two or three of my friends with me at the time. My best friend Lisa and my friend Brooke and another friend. And so we just kind of started and a couple of us put our hands on the planchette and we didn't know it was our first time. Like, are we really moving it? Is it really working? And of course it started moving and it really did feel like none of us was really intentionally moving it. And it did start spelling some things and it was slow moving at the beginning. We were asking, is this John? We were trying to contact John and it would go to yes and just pretty basic things. And I feel like as silly as we were back then, we did have serious intentions and an open mind of having this work. Of course it said yes. And we were going back and forth asking it questions to kind of, is this really John? If it's John, can you give us some kind of proof that it's you? And at that moment, I had a John Lennon photo hanging on my wall across the room. And it fell off the wall at that moment and we all just looked at each other and we were like, oh my gosh, like, I can't believe that just happened. Maybe it was just a coincidence, I don't know. But I mean, I had all four Beatles photos hanging on my wall. And for that to happen just seemed to be like such a. It couldn't be a coincidence. You know, at first that just kind of intrigued us to keep playing. You know, we kept wanting to come back for more because we got evidence that this thing was really happening. And so, you know, in the beginning it was very light hearted and fun and we kind of were just really open. And I think because we were so open minded and intentional with what we were doing, unintentionally, I think that's where things maybe kind of took advantage of us going forward. Where I grew up, my parents property was built on an old gravel pit. It was kind of an interesting property. And it sounds kind of not that beautiful, but it actually was really beautiful. Like it was kind of next to the Wind river and the old gravel pit, you know, they would fill in with the water table. And so we had these ponds surrounding our house. And my parents built their house right up on this pond. And there was an old. There was an old cowboy that my grandpa kind of took pity on a while ago. And he would just kind of do caretaker things around the property. And he let him live in this little shack that was kind of like a tiny home, you know, just like a one room shack that was next to our house. And right around the time when I got into the Ouija, that old cowboy passed away. And so his little shack was empty. And so my parents were like, hey, if you guys want to turn that little shack into just like a fun little like hangout jam space, you know, I moved my musical instruments in there and some old furniture. And so we did. And it was a really fun little hangout. And that's where a few of these Ouija sessions took place. The other location that we played Ouija in a lot after this shed is a place that we nicknamed Arnie's. Arnie's was a trailer house that was kind of on the edge of a scrapyard. My grandparents owned a like car parts and Scrapyard business. And so they had all these old like crashed junk cars, bunch of rusty parts and stuff. And just like rows and rows and rows of it. And I mean, one of our favorite things to do growing up is to go out in the middle of the night into the junkyard with our flashlights and just like mess around in the old rescue cars. And we were like, oh, well, maybe there's ghosts out here. Because you know, I'm sure some people died in these cars. And so that was kind of a fun thing that we used to do. But this trailer house was empty that my parents owned. And so they eventually let us kind of take over the trailer house. And we would hang out there every single day after school. Again, we moved all of our musical instruments into this place. And that was the place where a lot of the really creepy stuff happened with Luigi. So like I said, it was really light hearted in the beginning. So we decided, you know, one night we were going to take the Ouija to the old cowboys little shack. And we were going to stay the night in the shack. And there were about four or five of my friends and I and my sister and her friend. And we all just kind of like took our sleeping bags and set up. We had like a couple of candles set up on the floor. And we just like all spread out on the floor in this little one room shack. We had. We did have a boombox set up on the kitchen counter with the radio going kind of lightly in the background. So you know, of course we turned off all the lights with kind of just the intentions of seeing what was going to come through the Ouija that night. And maybe we could contact the old cowboy that lived there as well. I really loved that guy. He was a cool guy. And so we were like, if he came through, if Bud came through, like it would be. It would be kind of cool. So we start playing. And this evening things kind of took a little bit darker turn. We started playing and the planchette started moving in a different way. Instead of moving really slowly to each letter, it started moving very forcefully and quickly. It was like a whole different energy. It was kind of a gentle movement before and it would always make sense. And it would give us kind of time to read each letter clearly. And yes, that is clear clearly. What, what it's indicating and what it's saying. And then all of a sudden it's like there was a shift and the way it was almost floating and it would almost kind of circle the letters and then jerk from one letter to the Next, really kind of aggressively. And it would go back and forth to Z and then to a, Z, A. And then it would pause. And then it was starting to go to letters so quickly that we weren't keeping up. We were like, I don't know what this is saying right now. So we're like, well, maybe we need to get a notebook and start like writing everything that is saying down so we can keep track. And so, you know, we did that. My friend that wasn't playing at the time, she was like, okay, I'll transcribe for you guys. And so we're, we're, you know, playing and thought we were talking to the old cowboy, we're asking him questions. And then we're like, who else is coming through again? Za. Za. And then a bunch of letters that we didn't. No, it didn't make any sense. And it was moving very quickly, very forcefully. So again, my friend was writing all this down. All of a sudden the candle blows out and the planchette flies off of the board, like directly across the whole room just forcefully flies off. And we all just screamed and were like, did somebody do that? Did somebody seriously like, like throw that? And everybody was like, no, I, I swear I didn't do it. It was moving so fast, you know, to, to all the letters. And then all of a sudden it was just gone. It just flew off the board. And this room, I mean, it was A1, a one bedroom shack. It was just one room, but it, it flew all the way to the other corner of the room. So, I mean, probably like a good, I don't know, 15ft. It was very forceful and very noticeable and it really freaked us out. And at that time, I mean, of course we had a candle blowout, which, I mean, everybody was still and, you know, focused on the board. And so there was no open windows. There was nothing that could have potentially, you know, blew the candle out. So that happened, you know, the planchettes across the room. And I swear I remember somebody saying that they saw a pair of red eyes in the corner of the room. And I can't confirm it because it was so long ago. And I wish I could remember who, who it was that, that saw that, but I just remember it just felt like something, some evil presence was in the room at the time. And we kept playing. As scared as we were, we kept playing and we kept writing down the letters that it was saying. And again, we're like, I don't know, is this speaking a different language? What are these letters? What do they mean. So we decide to read what my friend was writing down. And again, reading it front to back like it, it didn't make any sense. But then we started noticing, okay, maybe we should try reading it a different way. What if we read these letters backwards? I confirmed my friend with my best friend. I talked to her about this the other day. She clearly remembers that it said her name and another girl's name in the room. I will call her Lisa. So it said Lisa and Megan and it spelled their names out first backwards. So I think that's kind of where we kind of noticed that it was doing something backwards. And then it, and then it went from 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, boom, you two are dead. And that was all spelled out backwards. So it was as soon as we realized, oh my gosh, like it is communicating to us backwards. And we had this just, you know, we felt like there was this not good presence and it's talking about, you know, two of my friends in the room and that they're going to die. We were absolutely terrified. And at that point we decided, I think we should probably put the Ouija away for the night. So we immediately just stopped and, you know, tried to go to sleep because it was, it just freaked us out so bad. That was kind of the main night where everything kind of started turning a little bit on the dark side. You know, we used the Ouija board so much within probably the time period of two years that it wasn't just, you know, that one friend that was transcribing everything for us. And it would get to the point where we could play with just one person. I could play on my own, my best friend could play on her own. We were like, we were pretty obsessed, honestly. It was like. We talk about it now. I mean, I haven't talked about it in a long time, but we always referred to it as the Ouija days because we got so obsessed. We got so obsessed with playing. Eventually we started, you know, we were just so intrigued by the things that it, that that was coming through. And we were so open minded, I think back then that, you know, we just, instead of asking it a lot of questions, we would just allow whoever or whatever would come through to just talk to us. And so, you know, every, almost every day after school, we would head to Arnie's, our trailer house hangout place, and we'd play music and then we'd take a break and we would get the Ouija board out and we would play Ouija and we would write down Every single thing it said, even if it was backwards or forwards, we were. We were keeping a journal of everything that was coming through.

A (24:01)

All right, we'll be right back after this quick break. If your cat could talk, they'd tell you that they want a litter upgrade. If you're not already treating your cat like the king and queen that I know they are. What are you doing? Why are you giving your cat outdated litter? Make their bathroom experience better for both you and Pretty Litter. It's soft on their paws, stays fresh longer, and easy to maintain. It's not just a Pretty litter. Pretty Litter is nice on the eyes, but it's so much more than that. Pretty Litter helps monitor your cat's health by testing acidity and alkalinity levels. Pretty Litter ships free right to your door, so there's no heavy bags to carry up and down the stairs, no last minute pet store runs. Pretty Litter's crystals are safe for cats and people alike. And plus the most important part, it has advanced odor control, meaning your home smells like a home, not like a litter box. My cat Merlin has been using Pretty Litter pretty much since the day we got him. It's been working great the entire time, and I have nothing but good things to say about it. So does he. Right now. You can save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy at prettylitter.com otherworld that's prettylitter.com otherworld to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. Prettylitter.com Otherworld Pretty litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnosed diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. Seaside for details. Are you looking for a podcast about pro football that doesn't put you to sleep with an avalanche of analytics or insult your fandom with brainless hot takes? Well, hi, I'm Dan Hanzas. And I'm Mark Sesler. Oh, hi, Mark. And we're the hosts of Heed the Call, the NFL podcast you've been waiting your whole life for. Heed the Call covers every game, every storyline, everything that matters, and we do it all with a touch of mirth.

B (25:57)

Football is fun.

A (25:58)

Why shouldn't your football podcast be the same? Follow and listen to Heed the Call NFL Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Some people might not know this about me, but I have been wearing prescription glasses since I was a teenager. And back then, there was nothing worse than having to go get a new pair of glasses. Luckily, Warby Parker eventually changed all of that for me. Warby Parker glasses start at just $95 and include prescription lenses with anti reflective scratch resistant coating. Many Warby Parker locations offer comprehensive eye exams starting at just $85. That offer is available both in stores and online with free shipping and free 30 day returns. Warby Parker uses nothing but premium materials in each of their frames. They design all their frames in house and the collections include silhouettes, colors and fits made to suit every single face. Warby Parker glasses truly are the first pair that I've bought that I think I look better in the glasses than. And by this point I have like six pairs from this company, so obviously I'm a fan. They offer everything you need for happier eyes, including eyeglasses, sunglasses, contact lenses and eye exams. You could shop with them online or in stores. I've been using Warby Parker for years now. You should too. Warby Parker has over 300 locations to help you find your next pair of glasses. You can also head over to warbyparker.com otherworld right now to try on any of their pairs virtually. That's warbyparker.com otherw otherworld warbyparker.com otherworld this episode is brought to you by Rocket Money. Whenever I go out to eat with my mom and the bill eventually comes, she pours over that thing and does a complete audit of every single item. She checks it before she pays me. On the other hand, I'm stupid. I'll just pull out my card, tap it, go with the Zen approach. That is, of course not the smart way to do things, and it has come back to bite me many times in the past. One specifically I could think of is a time I noticed that a taco stand I went to charged me $400 for the order of my tacos instead of, I don't know, $30. Luckily, I had Rocket Money to catch that mistake. I was able to call up the place right away and say, hey, I think you accidentally charged me $400 for three tacos and some guacamole and they were graciously able to fix it. But if it wasn't for Rocket Money, I would have definitely missed that. And who knows how many similar I have missed in the past before I had Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and even helps lower your bills so you could grow your savings. Rocket Money shows you all of your expenses in one place, including subscriptions you forgot about. And if you see a subscription you no longer Want Rocket Money will help you cancel it. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com/OtherWorld today. That's RocketMoney.com OtherWorld RocketMoney.com OtherWorld Most home security systems only kick in once somebody's already inside your house. At that point, the worst has already started. In fact, I'd even go a step further and say that based on personal experience, you don't even think you need a security system until it's already too late. But Simplisafe is different. It's real security that stops crime before it even begins. Their advanced cameras and can detect suspicious activity outside and live. Agents are standing by 24 7. If something's wrong, they step in right away, confronting the intruder, sounding alarms, and even contacting the police before the break in even happens. Literally three weeks ago, I was on vacation and somebody tried stealing a package off our front porch. I got alerted on my phone while we were eating lunch. And then suddenly we had this live feed of a guy standing on my porch holding the package. I cannot tell you how bizarre of a moment it was eating pizza at a table across the country and telling this guy, hey, put it down on a live audio video feed. It was a very strange moment, but of course, I'm glad I had the security system in place to stop it from happening. That's why I trust Simplisafe to protect my home. It was incredibly easy to set up and I love knowing whether I'm asleep or away. I don't have to be the one checking alerts. Simplisafe's agents have my back. There's no contracts or hidden fees, just reliable protection. And if you're not sure, there's a 60 day money back guarantee right now. Otherworld listeners can save 50% on a SimpliSafe home security system at SimpliSafe.com Otherworldpod that's S I M P L I safe.com Otherworldpod there's no safe like Simplisafe.

B (30:48)

We had several different spirits that we felt were good spirits that would come through and we would just ask them, you know, about their life or whatever, but also, like, we would always kind of test it. And, you know, the crazy part is there were so many instances of, you know, physical things that would happen in the room while we were playing. Like sometimes, you know, we would have the radio boombox going in the background and all of the sudden the radio dial would start moving and you would see the little radio dial you know, move, and you'd hear the static of the radio and the, you know, changing the channel. And this would happen multiple times. And it was just the creepiest thing. Also, it would start predicting things. So we would go, hey, tell us what's the next commercial that would come on the radio? And it would tell us. It would spell it out. One time, we're like, what's on the TV right now? If we turned it on and it spelled out Conan. And I'm like, thinking, Conan o', Brien. Like, oh, mate, I don't know. It doesn't seem like the right time of day for Conan to be on. So we turn the TV on and it's Conan the Barbarian, the movie. And so it was just stuff like that that was. It was silly, but it was also intriguing. And it started kind of getting us just hooked because it was so believable, and it kind of just sucked us in. We just. We were so obsessed with, you know, predict something else for us, like, tell us what's going to happen, you know, and it would. And for the most part, these other spirits we believed were coming through that were not bad spirits, but then you could always tell when this Z A. Z A would come through, and it would interrupt your, you know, conversation with another spirit or whatever, and it would start moving differently. It would start speaking backwards. It would hover around the letters in a circular pattern, and then, you know, be more forceful. Whenever that evil thing would come through, I felt really, really uneasy in the room and almost like something was watching us. Sometimes when it would come through, it would actually say things backwards that were very, very disturbing and sexual. It spelled out some absolutely evil things back to us that us innocent girls have, you know, we haven't experienced yet. Things that were sexual in nature and things that it wanted to do to us. And, I mean, we had literally no concept of this at the time. I mean, we're just going into high school, and I barely have had a couple of boyfriends yet. And so it was really, really disturbing. And so as soon as those things would happen, we would immediately try and shut it down. But there was still just this pull to keep playing and this underlying, like, need to just. And a curiosity to just keep playing all the time. All of this really horrendous sexual stuff that was coming through. And granted, it was coming through and being spelled backwards, so we had to read it backwards. It. There's just. It just kind of reaffirmed that, you know, this was not coming from, you know, my best friend. That's Playing with me or any other friends that are in the room. Like, this is something real. A lot of the time when we were playing Ouija, we were having. I mean, probably 60% of the. 60, 70% of the time, it was just, you know, random, kind of boring conversation with whatever was coming through. I mean, it wasn't always exciting. There was always one particular spirit or something, whatever, that was coming through, and I believe his name was Steve. And he would come through, and he kind of, like, he would actually say that the Zaza thing was not good and that he would try and, you know, get rid of it for us or. But that sometimes he was too powerful and he would take over. So it was kind of interesting that there was this one spirit, but it seemed like whatever this other evil thing was that was coming through, it was. It was almost like, too powerful, and it would just. There was just nothing you could do. It would just take over. It was kind of. Almost like a good and evil kind of thing, you know, where, like, the good spirit would try and, like, ward off the evil thing that was coming through, and it would always be very obvious. Like, you would know when the Zaza thing was. Was taking over, and then. Or it would just be like a normal. Normal spirit coming through, and it would be kind of just generally boring nonsense that we were chatting about or whatever and asking dumb questions like, you know, what's my next boyfriend gonna be? Or, am I going to pass the math test tomorrow? So, you know, we would just ask it normal. Normal things like that. But once it started predicting things more often, it seemed like everything that it would predict, it wouldn't be predicting good things. It would. Everything that would happen would be bad. As much as this Zaza thing would, you know, kind of interrupt every now and then, for the most part, we had other spirits that would come through that were pretty mundane. It was usually just one or two of the same ones that we kind of think anyway. I mean, it could have been one. Pretending to be multiple, I have no idea. But they seemed distinct and had. You know, each had stories about their lives and things that would come through, and we. We kept continuing to keep our Ouija journal. We would write down everything that was coming through. It would. It would predict things that would happen, and. And it was always kind of just silly things for the most part. But, you know, it just. We just started getting obsessed with playing. We wanted to play it all the time. It was almost like we needed to play because we were so intrigued with what was coming through. And, you know, Maybe it could predict, you know, our. You know, how we're going to do on our math test or, you know, who. Who are going to be dating or who has a crush on who. You know, just normal high school kids stuff. And so it kind of just made us obsessed. And I created this little note card, Ouija board. I just scratched it out on a note card and played. I mean, by myself. I would play in the back of the classroom or in between classes at my locker, wherever, with, like, a quarter. And sometimes it would work, and sometimes it was a little bit difficult, but it was just. I was just obsessed, and so was my best friend. One night in particular, we brought my little note card, Ouija board out to this high school event. We used to have movie nights in the football bowl. And so it was just like a big football field. And they would project a movie for everybody. And, you know, the whole high school would come out and hang out on the. On the turf. And we were kind of towards the back of the turf, towards the projector, and we weren't really paying attention to the movie. And we were with a couple of friends from school that we didn't normally typically hang out with. And I was in the grass with my best friend Lisa, and we were, like, whipped out the Ouija board, because, you know, why not? And so we've got our little flashlight, and we're playing Ouija. And the typical, you know, spirit was coming through. And our friends come up and they're like, what are you guys doing? Like, that is Ouija board. Like, that is so silly. Like, I don't believe in that, you know? And we're like, oh, it's real. Like, it will do. It will do stuff. Like, it predicts things. Like, it does crazy stuff. And he's like, I don't believe it. Like, and was kind of taunting it. And so we're like, okay, we will prove it. So we asked the spirit, shut off the movie, and it said okay. And all of a sudden, everything goes dark. The whole place goes black. The movie shuts down, the projector shuts down. And we're a few feet from the projector, and we saw the people that were running it, and they're, like, trying to figure out what the heck. Why did this go down? And we were like, oh, my gosh, it did actually do this. And then just a few, you know, a few minutes later, all of a sudden, it just comes back on. And this happens in front of, I mean, like, hundreds of people out in a football field. Our friends were like, I cannot believe that that just happened. Like, they were appalled that that just happened. And of course, I mean, every single thing that would happen to us, we were just like, this is amazing. And it just kind of made us want to keep playing it because we're like, it's actually doing things. So the more we played and the more obsessed we got, the more I just started predicting things that were. That were just negative. It just wasn't. It would never predict anything good. It was predicting things that were bad and whatnot. And we were just kind of starting to just generally, our mood was just kind of getting more and more depressed, I would say. And one time, you know, we were. We were chatting with the spirit that was coming through, and it told us that our boyfriends would be breaking up with us. And we're like, no way. Like, my best friend Lisa and her boyfriend had been dating for, like, three years at this point, and they were pretty solid. And my boyfriend, like, didn't. There didn't seem to be anything, like, wrong happening. It was going fine. There was, like, a dance coming up, and, like, we're excited about going to the dance, and. And so we're like, no way. Like, we don't believe it. And we're like, okay, so if they're going to break up with us, like, when is this going to happen? And he gave us a date, and we're like, well, both of them. And it said yes, and we didn't believe it, and so we kind of just brushed it off. And so that date rolls around, and we didn't even really have it in our mind anymore. We just were like, there is no way, you know? And sure enough, both of our boyfriends, separately, of course, but they broke up with us that day with really no explanation at different times of the day or whatever. But I just remember meeting up with my friend after school, and she was a wreck and was like, I cannot believe that Eric broke up with me. And I'm like, dude, like, Ryan broke up with me, too. Like, what the heck? And sure enough, it was that date that the Ouija predicted. We couldn't believe it. It was kind of the. The breaking point for us where we were like, man, you know, nothing is. Nothing good is coming out of all of this. Like, we keep playing and bad things keep happening. I mean, I have a whole. I saved all of my notes that I'd pass at school to all my friends. And, like, I have so many notes from that time of, you know, random friends saying, kenra, just cheer up. Like, snap out. Of it. Like, you guys just seem like you're just really down. Like, what is wrong? What's going on? And I couldn't really tell him. It was just, like, a heaviness that. That we had during that time.

A (45:41)

Could the reason for these breakups perhaps be related to YouTube becoming obsessively addicted to Ouija boards?

B (45:52)

Yes. Yeah, I think that could factor in, definitely. I mean, I even found a note between my best friend and I, and she was like, yeah, Eric doesn't believe that I'll ever quit the Ouija. And so, like, I think it probably was a factor in everything. And, you know, regardless of, like, whatever it was that, you know, made them break up with us, it still happened on the date that the Ouija predicted, which was just so crazy. And it just kind of made us go, whoa. Like, if this can happen, like, what else is it? What else is it going to do to our lives? And, like, I mean, even, like, my mom basically had to have, like, a Ouija intervention with me. She was like, kendra, like, you could just feel. You just seem really depressed. Like, I think you need to take a break. Like, I think you need to get rid of that thing. I don't think it's bringing any good into your lives. And I was like, yeah. So we ended up having to kind of just say, enough is enough. Like, that was kind of the breaking point for us. I realized that it was. It was truly evil, you know, And I should also preface around this time, and I never made this connection at the time until looking back now, but I was having sleep paralysis during this time, and I had a particularly scary one that happened one time, and my mom remembers it vividly. I was asleep in my room, and I woke up and I couldn't move. And I saw a woman hovering above my bed, parallel to me. It was like I was looking in a mirror at somebody probably 3ft, 4ft in the air, and I couldn't move. And she slowly just started disappearing from her feet up to her head. And as soon as she disappeared, which this was probably, I don't know, maybe 10, 15 seconds, which felt like an eternity, I was finally able to move, and I screamed, ran out of my room. My mom came downstairs and was like, what the heck? What's going on? And I thought it was a ghost at the time. I was like, I don't know what this was. But the woman. The crazy thing was the woman, she looked like an older version of me. She looked like she was like me, but in her 30s or 40s. I can't explain it. And I don't know if it was related to what was coming through at the time. But all these. I mean, I probably had sleep paralysis probably three or four different times within the time period that I was playing Ouija. So since all these kind of dark things were kind of just. We felt like we had a cloud over us. And my friend and I were like, okay, enough's enough. Let's get rid of the Ouija. And of course, we didn't really have Internet at the time. I mean, we did, but it was super slow, and we could only log on at school. So. So we were like, let's go try and find a book on the Ouija and, like, try and find the proper way to get rid of the Ouija board. And so we did find a book. It was a really thin book. I can't remember what it was called, but it was just all about the Ouija board. And it was basically saying that you could become possessed from it and all this stuff. And it really freaked us out because we're like, oh, my gosh. I think we're slowly becoming possessed by whatever is coming through this board. And it gave recommendations on how to, like, get rid of the board. And it definitely said to not burn it. I remember. And, like, the best method would be to, like, bury it and pour holy water over it. I believe we didn't really have access to, like, holy water or whatever. And we were like, I don't even know if we want to be the ones to dispose of it. And so we gave it to somebody and said, please get rid of this. Destroy it for us. I cannot for the life of me remember who we gave it to. We said, hey, get rid of this thing. And we don't want to see it. We don't want to even know. Like, if you rip it up, if you bury it or whatever, don't tell us where it's at. We just don't want to know. We want it gone from our lives. So a couple weeks go by, and we're like, okay, we're feeling good. Like, we got rid of the Ouija. We're not playing it anymore. We're gonna get our lives back on track. Things were going normal at school and in life. And I'm, like, in my room, and I'm, like, cleaning out some stuff under my bed, and I found the box that the Ouija board came in. And I'm like, oh, I need to throw this out. And I opened it up, and the Ouija board is back in Its box under my bed. My heart just sunk. And, I mean, I got full body chills. It was so freaky to know that this thing was back. This thing that it was like, oh, my God, like, it doesn't want to go away. And it freaked me out so bad. I was like, how is this possible? It should not even be in my household. It should be destroyed. It freaked me out so bad. I was like, okay, I'm giving this to my mom. And I'm like, mom, like, I'm gonna. You have to specifically go bury it. Like, go bury it somewhere in the ground, and don't tell me where it's at. I don't want to know, but just go bury it. And so she did. And I still to this day, don't know where she buried it. But it finally did go go away. It never came back. So that was really, really scary. And it just kind of indicated that, like, something was attached to it that didn't. Like, there was something that we opened up that obviously didn't want to be closed. And, you know, I read. I read about that these things can come back and that it's common from this Ouija book that I got. And for it to actually happen to me was so freaky, so scary. And at that point, I realized we really need to, like, get away from all of this stuff for good. Like, we opened something up that didn't want to be closed. And whatever this Zaza thing was, was really a negative energy. And, yeah. So I was going to do everything in my power to get rid of it. And in fact, even the Ouija journal that we were keeping all of our notes on. And, yeah, every single conversation was logged in this book. And I just felt like that book had a lot of negativity in it as well. You know, it had really vulgar things that were coming through, really just negative things. And so my friend Lisa and I decided we're just going to do, like, this little ritual, like, and we were going to rip it into shreds, and we, like, boiled it in a pot of water for some reason, just completely destroyed it. And then we buried it out back of Arnie's and kind of just, like, said a little prayer. And we're just like, we are leaving this in the past. And I kind of felt like I needed cleansed or something. Like, I felt like I need this completely in the past. So my friend's dad was a pastor, and so I was like, hey, I want to go see your dad. And I'm really not a religious person. But at that time, I was like. I just felt like I needed some good somebody to, like, pray for me. And I needed somebody that I could confide in and just say, hey, I was. I opened up something that was truly evil, and can you just pray for me and help me to put this in the past? And so, you know, he prayed for me, and I really never looked back. And my friend Lisa never really did either. We truly put all of that negativity in the past. Since then, I feel like life is good. I keep an open mind about spirituality and just paranormal stuff, and it still really intrigues me to this day. But also know that there's some negative things out there. And so I just feel like I'm really careful with that stuff anymore. And, you know, definitely my friend, I mean, she's got a full life and is married with kids, and she completely put it in the past and is like, I tell my kids, like, do not ever mess with a Ouija board. Like, there's no good that can come out of it. You know, I. I'm kind of appreciative of, you know, it's a big part of growing up. For me, growing up in a small town in Wyoming, like, it. I kind of had a unique experience, and it. I kind of look back on it fondly, even though there was some pretty negative things that came through. I'm really grateful that, like, we had enough good in our lives to kind of outweigh and not let it take over our lives, because I feel like if I was experiencing anything really, really bad in my life at that time, that maybe I wouldn't have the. The energy to pull out of it. And it could have taken hold of me, of me, worse than it did. So I kind of am grateful that I pulled out of that experience and really grateful for just having, like, generally a pretty good upbringing and childhood. And, you know, things are going well now. So glad that I left it all in the.

A (57:39)

So many people are probably thinking already that this name that came through is extremely similar to some episodes we did a while ago. In this story, the name was Zaza. And in our previous episodes, the name was Zozo. And in those episodes, we dove into this giant phenomena of a huge amount of people who claim to have contacted some sort of entity on the Ouija board that identifies itself with the name Zozo. This is extremely common, and we have gotten so many emails from people who have written in with a story involving these names. One of the possible explanations people have for this is that it became an Internet trend that sort of caught on and then people psych themselves into spelling this name out because they're expecting it, they're afraid of it. They know about this trend. I actually interviewed the guy who started the entire Zozo phenomenon online. He was blogging about it and basically popularized it. I interviewed him last year, but that episode ended up not coming out. I think I might end up putting that out sometime soon. But like I said, that trend started many years after this thing happened to Kendra. And on top of that, this happened before most people were on the Internet or had cell phones. Plus this was in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming. I find all of that really interesting. I also just noticed that in her original email, Kendra seems to not know that other people experienced this too. At the end of her email, she asked me if I had ever heard of somebody mentioning that name. So that's pretty weird. And I just noticed it right now. On top of all of that, I just thought this whole story was so wild. The fact that this thing was predicting stuff, seemingly making things happen in the real world, including possibly shutting the power off at some sort of school outdoor movie screening. Kendra was a great storyteller and I liked the fact that these girls seem to have gotten addicted to the Ouija board or possibly even broken up with by their boyfriends as a result of that addiction. The amount of Ouija board stories we get submitted to the show is really alarming. I know it can be easy for some people to dismiss Ouija boards entirely with explanations like the ideomotor effect, group dynamics, ritual framing, memory bias, etc. But I think that requires simplifying what is even going on with these boards. Spiritualists consider the boards to be simply a tool, and when a group of people gather with focused intentions, energy and belief, use the tool, it can act as an amplifier, maybe even opening a channel for contact that goes beyond psychology alone. In other words, it's more about the ritual and the intentions, not the tool itself. The boards are even controversial amongst spiritualists and other practitioners who believe in this type of contact, primarily because they say it's risky and it's essentially an open door and a magnet to any low vibrational spirits that might want to take advantage of it. So I'll just say this. I will not be trying a Ouija board myself. I don't think you should either. It seems like a lose lose situation to me, but I do like hearing the stories. So thank you to Kendra for sharing this story. This episode is called Zaza and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice, Jackal and North Americans. This episode was edited and engineered by Theo Shafer. Our associate producers are Nikki Cate Delgado and Hayley Parson. Our artwork is by Cul de Sac Studios. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you can become a patron@patreon.com Otherworld Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five star review and telling your friends about the show. Our social media is otherworldpod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey. Leah Rhys Dennis, Rob Barandi, Eric Donnelly, Maura Curran, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor, Michael lavey, Josephina Francis and Hilary Shuffle. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odysee app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural or unexplained, you can send us your story@storiesotherworldpod.com.