OTHERWORLD – Episode 139: Holy Warfare
October 15, 2025
Host: Jack Wagner
Guest: “Mike”

Episode Overview

“Holy Warfare” explores an intense and deeply personal encounter with the paranormal, as told by Mike, an Army veteran, medic, and skeptic with both Christian and Buddhist family influences. What begins as a typical day devolves into a harrowing battle between forces of darkness and light—experienced through nightmarish visions, physical sensations, and what Mike can only describe as a spiritual war. Jack Wagner navigates Mike's detailed account with journalistic curiosity, seeking not only the facts, but the emotional and psychological truth within Mike’s story.

Main Discussion Points

Mike’s Background and Family Dynamics

• Military Service: Mike joined the Army as a medic at age 27, deployed to Iraq (2010–2011), and was injured in a non-combat vehicle accident (“broke my neck, so that really sucked” – Mike, [06:20]).
• Career and Spiritual Influences:
  • Works in banking/fraud investigations.
  • Wife is Taiwanese, raised Buddhist—family passively believes in spirits, but culturally ignores them to avoid attracting attention (“They tell themselves if I don't acknowledge it, it won't bother me.” – Mike, [09:50]).
  • Raised Catholic in Phoenix; was a rebellious, questioning student (“I used to get in trouble quite a bit because I would question a lot of the teachings.” – Mike, [11:02]).
• Paranormal Awareness: Both partners have noticed odd activity in their home—strange movements, presences, and unexplained voices.

Early Paranormal Experiences

• The Disembodied Voice Incident: During a casual movie night (watching Big), both Mike and his wife hear a mysterious voice reply, “uh huh,” coinciding with a joke about spirits. They confirm it wasn’t the movie and even catch it on their home security camera ([15:16]).
• Household Hauntings:
  • Shadows seen by multiple people.
  • Army friend (also a medic) sees an evil-smiling figure in broad daylight; later pushed down the stairs by an unseen force, suffering real and lasting physical injuries ([20:44]).

Mike’s Skeptical but Open Approach

• As a medic and rational thinker, Mike considers scientific and medical explanations first: “We have to look at reality. We have to look at what's going on, and what the scientific explanation could be” ([22:45]).
• Familiar with sleep paralysis, distinguishes it from what he ultimately experiences.

The Main Incident: Encounter and Spiritual Battle

The Shadow Figure and Attack ([35:30-50:10])

• Prelude: After a rough day, Mike lays down for a nap and experiences something outside sleep paralysis:
  • Sees a shadowy, substantial figure “saunter” into his dark room.
  • Figure creeps across the room, crouches, shuffles on all fours, and then crawls onto the bed.
  • Mike feels the mattress flex with the “weight” of the entity and genuine, physical terror (“It has features, but there's zero color. No eyes. I can't even see, like, nasal openings” – Mike, [44:00]).
  • As Mike reaches for his firearm, the figure vanishes.

Quote:

“It was so dark. It was dark even against the background of my dark world… And it starts to get real for me. You know, I'm thinking, there's a person in my room. I don't know who this person is. I'm getting a little scared here. There's a paranormal feeling to it, but there's also a danger feeling to it.”
(Mike, [43:38])

The Nightmare Within a Nightmare ([50:10-58:40])

• Descent Into Dream:
  • Mike falls into “the worst nightmare I’ve ever had.”
  • Inhabits his own body but not in control—experiences maniacal glee, running through a distorted city, wrecking a store, and violently self-harming (“It was the worst pain I've ever felt in my life. I'm screaming in pain, but nothing's coming out.” – Mike, [52:41]).
  • Details excruciating sensory reality: feeling glass cut his flesh, the sensation of ripping into his own guts.
  • Realizes he’s not only lost control, but powerfully aware, as if literally in hell.

Quote:

“I'm standing there tearing into my guts and I'm thinking like, this has got to be hell, right? How can hell be any worse than this?”
(Mike, [54:05])

Waking Into a Real Spiritual Assault ([58:40-1:05:00])

• Post-Dream Attack:
  • Awakens, believing the nightmare is over, only to be enveloped by a “presence” in his bedroom.
  • Describes sensation as if “hit with a mattress going 50 miles an hour”—electrical sensations, convulsions, a profound evil trying to “supplant me.”
  • Hears laughter—not audibly, but as a pervasive, malicious glee.

Quote:

“It felt like this darkness was just trying to enter everywhere—my body, my soul, my psyche, my consciousness, it was just in there and it was trying to push me out.”
(Mike, [59:10])

The Turning Point: Plea for Help and the Battle of Light ([1:05:00-1:15:00])

• Crisis and Intervention:
  • Realizes his resistance only empowers the darkness. Sees himself from a third-person perspective, feeling his soul being pushed “out.”
  • In desperation, prays: “God, I can’t do this myself. Please help me.” (Mike, [1:09:00])
  • Instantly experiences a shift—“an explosion of a sensation of light”—but not the simplistic triumph he expected. Rather, a grueling, hours-long struggle ensues between the darkness and a host of unfamiliar, powerful voices.

Quote:

“It sounded like I was in a crowded gym…total cacophony, it's super difficult to pick out any one conversation…Some of them were super loud. They just had immense power…Like you’re in the presence of someone that just commands respect…”
(Mike, [1:11:40])

• Recognizes the voice of his childhood nun, Sister Raphael, among the defending voices.

Aftermath and Confirmation ([1:15:00-1:22:00])

• The “light” eventually wins; Mike is left exhausted, physically weak, but restored in control.
• Shares the experience with his friend, who notes his changed appearance and tells him, “You need to go to church” ([1:18:00]).
• Receives an unexpected invitation to church from another friend, moments later, in a peculiarly timed phone call.
• Attends a non-denominational service, finding uncanny parallels between the sermon’s message and his own helplessness and need to surrender.

Ongoing Experience and Reflection

• Mike explores multiple denominations (Catholic, Protestant), but finds the most peace in personal, unstructured meditation and conversation with “God” or the presence that helped him.
• Since the incident, Mike feels his life is “lighter,” home feels less oppressed, but senses a lingering spiritual “battle” persists.
• Reports that paranormal phenomena around the house continue, but now dark entities seem less able to penetrate his personal space.

Quote:

“So now where before there were paranormal experiences, …having this experience and getting to literally touch whatever that evil was and then also getting to touch whatever that light was has made me, like, just so much more secure in my belief in a higher power.”
(Mike, [59:00])

Host Reflection and Notable Moments

Jack Wagner’s Commentary ([1:29:40+])

• Struck by the specificity and horror of Mike’s ordeal, especially the real pain described in both dream and waking states.
• Notes the story’s divergence from neat, faith-affirming narratives: the battle between darkness and light was protracted, ambiguous, and not resolved by a simple conversion.
• Observes that the “army of light” did not correspond to typical religious imagery—no “winged horsemen or golden swords”—and that the voices weren’t all recognizable, even to Mike.

Quote:

“On one hand, what Mike is describing is very familiar…the concept of a battle between an army of light and darkness…On the other hand, the specifics are so unique and completely different than the typical story you might encounter when it comes to a spiritual battle.”
(Jack Wagner, [1:32:30])

Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Quote/Topic | |:-----------:|---------------------------------------------| | 04:36-06:49 | Mike’s military and family background | | 11:02 | Questioning Catholic teachings as a child | | 15:16 | The “djinn” voice incident while watching “Big” | | 20:44 | Army friend’s apparition and injury | | 22:45 | Medical skepticism and approach to the paranormal | | 35:30-50:10 | Main shadow figure encounter | | 50:10-58:40 | Nightmare of losing control/self-harm | | 58:40-1:05:00| “Wakes up” into a real physical attack | | 1:09:00 | Plea for divine help: "I can’t do this myself. Please help me." (Mike) | | 1:11:40 | The “army of light” and cacophony of voices | | 1:15:00 | Aftermath, physical and emotional impact | | 1:18:00 | Friend says, “You need to go to church” | | 1:29:40+ | Host Jack’s reflections on the story |

Memorable Quotes

• “This has got to be—I’m in hell. I mean, there’s no other explanation for it. I must have gone to hell. And this is part of my torture.” (Mike, [54:05])
• “Every time I would try to fight back, the attack would get stronger and the laughter…just got worse. The convulsions got worse. …the harder it became to stay connected.” (Mike, [1:06:10])
• “God, I can’t do this myself — please help me.” (Mike, [1:09:00])
• “It sounded like I was in a crowded gym…total cacophony…Some of them were super loud…they just had immense power.” (Mike, [1:11:40])
• “For me, it does feel like I’ve reconnected with God, the spirit as I know it.” (Mike, [1:59:00])

Tone and Final Thoughts

Language & Mood: Candid, raw, occasionally darkly humorous (“I shit you not, no exaggeration…” – Mike), but also vulnerable and seeking.

Overall:
A powerful depiction of a man forced far beyond the limits of rational explanation, whose faith in both science and spiritual possibility is tested in a harrowing confrontation with evil—and, perhaps, saved by a mysterious force of light.

Episode Title: Holy Warfare
Podcast: Otherworld
Host: Jack Wagner
Date: October 15, 2025