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- [00:00]
Commercial Narrator
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- [00:02]
Jack Wagner
Congrats.
- [00:02]
Commercial Narrator
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- [00:38]
Linda
When.
- [00:38]
Commercial Narrator
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- [01:18]
Jack Wagner
Welcome to other world. I'm your host Jack Wagner. What you're about to hear is a strange story about two brothers from Australia named David and Steven who believe something malevolent was brought into their life when they were just teenagers. I went into this first interview with David thinking that it would be a quick, strange and maybe even funny story, but as I began speaking to him for the first time, I realized it was a lot more complex than I imagined. It's a very long story that took place over 15 years and it was honestly somewhat hard for me to fully understand at first, partly because the people who went through it all still don't fully understand it themselves. But whatever it was, it was very clear that these boys lives were completely upended by what happened to them. I ended up speaking with these guys multiple times over a couple months because of the time zones. We also had to talk at very unusual hours, either extremely early or extremely late. Either way, one of us was very sleepy every time we talked. When listening to strange stories regularly and if you're a person who finds them entertaining, I think it could be easy to forget that sometimes this stuff really impacts people's lives in a very negative way, sometimes for a long time. And some stories don't have a clear ending or explanation. Sometimes they leave the people involved confused and without closure. This is also a story about teenage romance and heartbreak. I'm sure many people can remember their first relationship and how confusing, mysterious and hard to navigate it might have been. That first relationship can be confusing and scary on its own without an added layer of the paranormal. But in this case, it involves both. This episode is called the Granny Flat, Part one, and you're listening to Otherworld.
- [03:45]
David
Hello, is this Bobby?
- [03:46]
Steven
Yes, it is at its core, the science you can't argue with a story.
- [03:50]
David
About all of a sudden up in the sky.
- [03:52]
Steven
It's almost frustrating that it's happening. I'm literally, I'm gonna die. Its limbs were just like wrong.
- [03:59]
David
Everybody moves back into the light, even.
- [04:01]
Linda
If it takes them a.
- [04:07]
David
Sam. My Name's David. I'm 30 years old. I'm currently living in Sydney. But I grew up in Canberra, which is where this story mostly happened. I currently work as an electrical linesman in Sydney. Trains and work a lot of night shifts. So yeah, it's fun. Like we get a lot of emergencies, the weather's crazy, we have to get call outs and we go out and fix wires that have been taken down by trees or just actually the other week we had like we were working on one pole and then 20 meters away from us, a tree randomly fell on the power lines next to us and started a flower. And it was pretty crazy. Where I grew up in Canberra is like, it's the capital city of Australia, but it's like really small. Especially where I lived was near the bushland area. I spent a lot of time like going out like trekking through the mountains and we used to go camping out there a lot. And it's very cold there. Like it's down to like minus eight in winter you get snow like all around the hills I live in and that's a pretty beautiful place. I love traveling. Like I traveled all through Asia. My wife's from Japan so we go to Japan quite often. Yeah, I grew up like playing rugby and lots of like outdoor stuff. My dad loved fishing and camping and now he's into video gaming as well. So yeah, I grew up in a big family. I'm one of five, two younger brothers, a younger sister and then my older brother who me and him were very close. Like we were like the closest in age and we all hung out together with same friendship groups. We went through like a lot like in this story, like starting from when I was 15 in the house that we lived in together, my parents house, nothing really out of the ordinary ever happened in my life. I never really believed in anything out of the normal. I didn't really believe in ghosts or demons or we're not religious or anything. This is probably the first thing that happened to me. Where I was like started to question like, what is reality really? All the rest of the people in my family are pretty logical, like reasoning people. And I think I've still like, I still look at it through that lens as well, which has like made it so hard for me to kind of like put it into my life view and like form my opinions on like what the life. What life is definitely like. Yeah, shook up my beliefs a lot and I kind of ignored it for a long time. Like kind of embarrassed about the whole story, so I didn't really share it with anybody. It was only recently where me and my brother actually ended up talking about the story and kind of like trying to. I realized for him he's kind of in the same boat where it's like affected him a lot. But he hasn't known how to talk about it with anyone else besides me.
- [07:37]
Steven
So.
- [07:39]
David
Yeah, I'm 30 years old now. This kind of like happened when I was 15 and my brother, who was about 18 at the time, started dating a girl named Casey. She kind of just seemed like a normal girl. Like she was a bit quiet, like really shy. I can't really remember the very first time meeting her, to be honest. I remember this night when this event happened and I think it was like the second or third time I met her. The first few times I kind of didn't really pay attention to her much. I was still pretty young, so I just was like, oh, that's my brother's girlfriend. I didn't even really talk to her before this night. Yeah, so we were sitting at home. She wasn't really talking to me much. My parents and all my little siblings were actually out at a family dinner. But I decided to stay home that night with my older brother and her. So we're in the house alone. We just decided to start watching a movie. We were sitting there watching the movie and I was kind of just. We were all just silent. We weren't really talking or anything. And then I heard like a scream in my mind. The voice was like a young girl, really high pitched, like ringing, screaming sound. And it kind of was like it, it was in my mind, but it kind of felt like it was coming from behind me in a way. So it kind of made me look around like, whoa, where was that coming from? And I remember it like ringing in my ears a lot. Like it, it shocked, it shook, it shocked me a lot because I was like, I knew that was in my head, but it was really loud and kind of instantly like made me get goosebumps. When I heard the scream, I remember being like looking around, around me and then realizing that she was staring at me like with like a shocked face. And then she was like, did you hear the girl screaming as well? And that's when I started getting really freaked out, like, what is going on? What is happening? I asked my brother if he heard it. He said no. And then she said it was a lost spirit who died and she's scared and lost and she's trying to talk to you. That kind of shocked me a lot because I was like, I didn't know, I never believed any of this kind of thing. And then that's when she explained to me that it was like an old soul who like a lost spirit that had like passed away. And she's scared and lost and she needs like guidance kind of thing. She kind of wanted me to like talk to her, but that's all I heard at that time. I just heard like a scream and then it went away. After that I was like, I remember having goosebumps like all over me and I was kind of getting pretty freaked out. She was explaining to me, like, you're like an old soul. And that now that I've heard this happen, that's going to be happening to me like a lot more often and it's going to get much more intense. She told me like I was getting like pretty freaked out, so she was telling me to not worry and that she would take care of me. And like she's been, this has been happening to her whole life so she knows how to deal with it. I remember her talking a lot and I was just, I was kind of like thinking it was crazy like what she was saying to me and I was like, this chick is crazy. But at the same time I was like, I did hear the scream, so it didn't really make it. I was kind of looking for her to answer for answers of what just happened to me as well at the same time.
- [11:04]
Jack Wagner
So let me make sure I have all this straight. You are 15, you're watching a movie with your 18 year old brother and his new girlfriend who you don't know. And randomly when you're watching the movie, you hear a woman's piercing scream that you realize is in your mind. And then she looks over at you and is like, did you hear that too?
- [11:29]
David
Yeah.
- [11:31]
Jack Wagner
And then after she just immediately starts dumping all this other stuff on you about like that she's experienced this before. And that seems just like a lot of information for a 15 year old while watching a movie.
- [11:44]
David
Yeah. Yeah. Like, even talking about it now, it's kind of, like, made me, like, get goosebumps because it was kind of just like a shock. And I was remember just being in shock and her just, like, explaining everything to me. And I was kind of just like, what is happening to me right now? Because, like, I could just hear the scream. And then I was kind of, like, freaked out. Like, what? Like, is this, like, a ghost in the room? Like, what's going on?
- [12:08]
Jack Wagner
I kind of wish I knew what movie was playing in the background during all this.
- [12:12]
David
For some reason, I think it's Elf, but I don't even know why I.
- [12:15]
Jack Wagner
Think that that is such a weird movie to be playing during all this happening to you.
- [12:21]
Steven
Yeah.
- [12:22]
David
Yeah. And I think before that, she was kind of like, oh, he's just like a young kid. I don't want to bring all this stuff on him. But that just kind of happened. She was. You know, she realized that I heard the same scream she heard and was kind of like, oh, I have to explain everything to him now. Yeah. I could tell my brother was like, o, far out. Don't tell him. Like, don't get him involved in this. Like, he'd been dealing with it without telling me already, I guess. But we kept talking for the rest of the night, and then my parents came home eventually with my younger siblings, so we just kind of stopped talking about it. And then I ended up just going to bed that night. But I remember, like, that whole night I was like, my brain's just racing with, like, what does this all mean? And, like, in a way, I kind of felt, like, special in that and being like, wow, this is like, something happening to me that doesn't happen to other people. But at the same time, I was also, like, questioning it in my mind and being like, was it real or was it just like I imagined it?
- [13:20]
Steven
And then.
- [13:21]
David
Yeah.
- [13:21]
Jack Wagner
It's funny hearing you talk about this stuff. You're so casual about it.
- [13:26]
David
Yeah, I'm trying not to be that. It's just, like, something that happened into my life. Like, it's just a part of, like, a part of my childhood in a way now. And it's like something for me where I just made it, like, just a normal thing. Like, I don't talk about it with other people because I know they don't see it as a normal thing. But in my mind, I kind of just think this kind of stuff happens to other people as well. And it's not. I guess I've had, like, a. I've Had a lot of weird strange stuff happen to me since that time. So for me right now it's not really that abnormal to talk about.
- [14:02]
Steven
Hi, my name's Stephen and I'm Dave's older brother. I'm two and a half years older than him. At first everything seemed like pretty normal and pretty quickly like became pretty serious with each other at that young age. She had like sort of curly browny blonde hair and like sort of just like that skater sort of style, I suppose, like snowboarder skater style from the like mid 2000s. Burton gear, Burton beanies, skull candy, headphones. Just very, very different. She. Yeah, she pretty quickly told me that she viewed the world differently, experienced the world differently than most people and that she could tell what other people were feeling and she could feel it herself. Like it would come through as a feeling in the pit of her stomach and all these sorts of things. It was, it was very intense from the start, like straight away. Then she, she sort of made it that way. I guess you'd like call it love bombing or whatever, you know, like she got under my skin really quickly and it got really intense really quickly. I think it was just us. Yeah, it was just us three at home. I don't remember where the rest of my family were, but it was one of, if not the first one of the really early times that Dave and Casey had met and pretty normal night. All of a sudden both of them sort of sat bolt up mid sentence kind of thing and Dave just looked like wide as a ghost. And Casey looked at him and said, did you hear that too? And he was like, yeah. And they both said that they'd heard a like a screaming in their head. And instantly Casey just like sort of started telling Dave that like she can hear it too and that she could sort of like sense that he had something to him as well. And I know they just. After that they sort of spent a couple of hours talking and she was explaining everything that she'd already sort of explained to me to him as well. And it wasn't, it was only a couple of weeks after we sort of started dating that she told me about these things that she could do. And so yeah, she told me that she can, she can come and visit me when I'm sleeping and I would be having normal dreams and then like someone in the dream would become her and she could talk to me. Yeah, I just remember it happening quite often, honestly, like while we were together. Yeah, so she would go into like weird like trance, like. Yeah, the best I could sort of describe. It would be like a trance kind of thing where she would be, like, having conversations with friends of hers that had passed. And I would, like, you know, I would feel that sort of, like, presence in the room while she was doing it. Like, it just felt strange. Like, it was like you could, like, feel the outline of something standing next to the bed. That's just, like, the only way I could really explain it. Like, there was one friend who apparently died in a car crash. I remember hearing her talk to that one a lot. She was, like, awake but not awake. Like, there, but not there sort of thing. So she said, like, how I can visit you in dreams. Like, her friends could visit her in dreams as well.
- [17:36]
Jack Wagner
But not living friends.
- [17:38]
Steven
Not living friends, no. Like, that was the other weird thing is that she had, like, we were only 16 and she, like. As far as I was told, that she. She had like, five or six friends that had died and that were all, like, still sort of, like, in her. Followed her around and, you know, talked to her and this and that. It's weird. And I think that was like, another thing that she would sort of say was that, like, you know, I'm like. Like, you know, bad things happen to people that get close to me. And that kind of thing was like another sort of thing that was getting thrown around a lot as well. I wasn't actually even sure if her friend had died. And I got confirmation that it was a true thing. Not that long ago, about a year ago, an article popped up. It was like an anniversary, and it was this girl who had died in the car crash, which was her friend. I guess it's just like that. Yeah, like, that crazy, like, first relationship where you don't really know, like, how to. How you don't really know how to handle those feelings. I guess sometimes when, you know, the first time that they happen, you don't know if you haven't ever had those intense feelings before. The first time you have them. They can be like, yeah, pretty. Pretty powerful over you when you're that age. And then it was like. Yeah, the first night that she met Dave that things sort of took a scary turn. I guess when we heard the, like, the woman's. Well, Dave and. And Casey heard the woman scream in the head. Yeah, I don't know. It was because it was like Dave was very scared. Like, you could see that Dave was really scared. Yeah, it was. It was like. It was weird. It was. It sort of like, started something in him as well. I guess that was like, the start of everything. For him as well. That, like, first night.
- [19:31]
David
Yes. I remember, like, laying in bed and kind of, like, I started to believe it a lot more at that point. And, like, I started to believe, like, all the stuff she was telling me about, like, me being, like, a powerful old soul. And I remember being like, whoa. Like, kind of like it was like a movie. Like, oh, well, I've got, like, this crazy super power. Because I was so young at the time, it was kind of like, you know, you take a lot of inspiration for movies. So I was like, well, I feel like a movie character or something. I remember feeling, like, good that night and feeling, like, yeah, really positive. The room my brother lived in, where the event happened was actually where my grandpa passed away about two years, like, prior to this event happening. So he lived in the granny flat. And then, yeah, he passed away. He had lung cancer. And I remember my granddad trying to communicate with me. And it was like, the same feeling I had when that scream happened in my mind. Like, it was my thoughts, but it was in my grandpa's voice. And then I started to feel, like, this real euphoric, like, warm, comforting feeling of him being there with me. And then I remember him to start to talk to me. I remember hearing him say, like, everything you're going through is okay. And, like, I'm just happy you can hear me. Like, I remember him saying that, like, oh, you can hear me. You know, it's me. And then him kind of being like, I've been trying to communicate with you, but I can't. And, like, it's so happy to have somebody in the family that can hear me. I remember he was, like, really euphoric as well, that he could. He knew that I was hearing him. It's hard to describe, but it was like. It was sort of like I could hear his thoughts in my head. And there's, like, the left side and the right side of David, like, listening. Like, the left side would be listening to it and being like, wow. And, like, fully believing it. And then there's always, like, this side in the back. Like, what are you. Like, this isn't happening. This is like, you're just imagining this and, like, you're kind of doubting yourself, but also in shock and, like, trying to, like, break it down in your head and be like, is this really him talking to me or am I just, like, imagining this? He came and talked to me and. And then just randomly, like, he. He just left. Like, we didn't say goodbye or anything. I remember it just kind of happened Like, I kind of just, like, snapped out of it, and I couldn't, like, channel that feeling back anymore. And I remember kind of being, like, a bit sad that he was gone at that time, but also at peace and, like, a comfort that he was there watching over me. And I remember over the next few days, like, it wasn't necessarily I could hear him talking to me, but I just, like, felt a lot closer to him. Like, could feel his presence in my room. I started to get every now and then, like, that feeling of him being in the room, like, started to get, like, kind of scary. Remember feeling, like, really negative feelings towards it. See, after that night, I went to work the next day, and I was still thinking about it a lot. I was working at Target at the time, so I was, like, trying to work at Target and talk to customers, but I was, like, totally out of it and thinking about all this other stuff that happened to me the night before. And then it was probably, like, yeah. A week or so later, me and my brother and Casey were in his room hanging out. I was just up in the main house. And then my brother was like, oh, do you want to come down and hang out with us? And I was like, yeah, right. I remember going down there. Casey started, like, talking to me about what had happened and how I'd been for the rest of the week. Oh, my brother was explaining, like, what had been happening with them, like, since they met, and about, like, Casey having, like, visits from, like, one of her friends who passed away in a car accident. And then as they were talking about that, like, Casey all of a sudden just started, like, shaking and, like, shaking the whole. She was laying on the bed, and I was sitting on the foot of the bed, and my brother was laying next to her on the bed. For some reason, I felt, like, really calm. Like, my brother was freaking out. Like, it's all right. It's all right, Casey. And she was, like, screaming, like, get them off. It hurts. It hurts.
- [23:40]
Steven
Stop.
- [23:40]
David
Stop. Stop. And he was, like, kind of shaking her, like, casey, snap out of it. Snap out of it. And she was, like, staring at the roof. She was saying, like, all, like, words that weren't words, but, like, kind of some unknown language kind of thing. And I remember I was, like, super calm at the time for some reason. Like, it wasn't freaking me out. And I remember I just, like, calmly put my hand on her, just said, it's all right. It's all right. It's okay. You don't need to worry. And then, like, as soon as I put my hand on her. She just like, stayed away, like, stopped shaking, started, like, breathing really calmly, like, still with her eyes closed. And then like, eventually she opened her eyes and she said, oh, thank you. Thank you so much. And I remember kind of being shocked at how calm I was because my brother was like panicking and he was like, so sad and stressed and upset by the whole thing. And I remember I had this weird feeling when I put my hand on her leg. Was like tingling in my hands. Like kind of pins and needles, like a warm pins and needles feeling in my hand when I put my hand on her. And then when she got out of it, I like, felt kind of like, proud of myself. And she kept saying, like, oh, I feel really good. I feel really like she was kind of like in this weird euphoric feeling as well. Kind of. Me and her both were. We were like, both in this euphoric feeling. And I kind of like got the vibe from my brother that he was. I felt. I think he felt upset that he couldn't help more and he was confused why. We both were like, in this happy feeling. And he kind of looked a bit sad and scared and like, I could tell he didn't like this whole situation. But like, for me and Casey, it was like, kind of exciting and like, kind of looks like a good feeling in a way. And then I think I had to go to sleep because I had school the next day. So I think at this some point, like, I just went back up to my room and left them to alone.
- [25:22]
Steven
I don't really know how I felt like, how. Because yet again, like, Dave was really, like, really young. He was 14 or 15. And like, he was like. It was overwhelming for him. I think at the time. Like, I. Yeah, I remember just being like, worried about, like, worried about him, I guess, and how he was like, dealing with it. Like, dealing with all this, like, new information and these new things that were coming in at him. Like, I don't know if I ever really felt like, scared or alarmed. So, like, yeah, while we were sort of dating, I never felt that way. It was more like afterwards where everything got, you know, everything had like that bad turn.
- [26:03]
David
It was probably like over a few months where Casey and my brother was still dating. I remember her having a lot more of like, these possession events and. And I remember I never, like, was scared of the situation and I always felt like, in control. And I started to like, feel that, like, the entity that was making her, like, trying to possess her. Like, I started to feel that in the room, it was just like this weird, like, a kind of dark feeling around you, like, following you, watching you. I remember that, like, being around me a lot over that few months where Casey was with my brother. And then one of the events that, like, stuck out to me from my memory was she wanted to communicate with a friend that had passed away from the car accident, and she wanted to use a Ouija board. The night that we decided to do it, it was, like, during a pretty big storm. And it was, like. Yeah. Heavy raining outside, stormy lightning. So it was, like, already a pretty scary atmosphere to be doing a Ouija board. And I remember my brother looked really worried about it. Like, he didn't want to do it, but he was, like, supporting her. Yeah. So we went to go start the Ouija board. I remember her setting it up. I already started feeling, like, a bit scared about it at that point. I was like, I don't really want to do this. Yeah. So, like, as soon as we started the Ouija board, I, like, felt like this whole. The whole room just got, like, thick and heavy and, like, this uncomfortable, like, shivering feeling. And I remember I was seeing, like, we're not seeing it. It was more like sensing it being, like, behind Casey, just, like, kind of standing over her, watching over her. Yeah. That's where I always sensed it was, like, standing over her, like, especially when she had, like, those seizure feelings. I just felt this, like, really heavy, dark energy, like, hovering over her. As soon as we put our hands on the Ouija board, the doorknob on the other side of the door fell off and hit the ground. And it made, like, a banging sound. And it kind of shocked us all. And we're like, what was that? My brother was, like, really scared at that time. So we. I went and tried to open the door to get out. We stopped doing the Ouija board, and the door wouldn't open because the doorknob had fallen off the other side. He was getting really scared. So I was like, it's all right. I'll just climb up through the window and then go through the house and open the door from the other side. I remember at that point, I was pretty scared. Like, that was the first time I felt not in control of the situation and was like, I don't want to do this anymore. Like, I felt like this was too much, but I was, like, staying calm for my brother. And then, yeah, I just went through the window and went and opened the door and then came and got them out. I remember Casey wanting to, like, continue with the Ouija board. And I remember me and my brother were both like, nah, like, we don't feel comfortable right now. We don't want to do this right now. We have to do it a different time when we feel better. And I remember her kind of. It was like she had been possessed at that point. Like, I didn't feel the same energy from her. I felt kind of scared of her. She was, like, kind of enjoying the whole night. Yeah, it was, like, chaos and, like, she had been taken over by this thing, and I didn't feel comfortable being around her that night. She was kind of, like, laughing and kind of, like, provoking us to be more scared. And, like, she was enjoying us being scared. I remember eventually we just convinced her we don't want to do it, and we stopped doing it. But, like, I just felt, like, really uncomfortable for the rest of that night. Definitely something happened during that Ouija board that, like, opened some way of this being to gain more access to communicating with me. I think that has to do with, like, the willingness to be wanting to communicate with it that, like, let it in. Even though nothing. We weren't communicating with the board, it was leading the events after that. It's like, it opened, like, the laneway for this thing to be able to communicate with me more freely. Yeah. So after that night, like, we did the Ouija board, like, things for me got, like, a lot worse. Like, I didn't feel in control of the situation. I didn't feel calm. The feeling of my granddad talking to me was there around still, and it was like, telling me to, like, it's all right. Like, you're okay. You don't have to be scared of it. But it started to, like, I started to sense like, it was my granddad voice, but the words he was saying. Didn't feel like my granddad would be saying those words. The first time I remember being weirded out by it was I remember hearing the voice of my granddad telling me, and it just kind of came out of nowhere. I was laying in bed, and I remember it coming into my head and saying, like, for you to, like, get to the next level and, like, control your abilities, you have to make a great sacrifice. And that's all he said. And I remember after he said that, I was like, what is he talking about? Like, and it was like, yeah, it was like telling me you're going to be a salamander, which is, like, the higher level of a fire spirit. I looked it up later and found that out. And then I remember that voice in my head telling me like, you have to make a big sacrifice if you want to become a salamander. And I remember after, like after the voice said that this disappeared and I remember feeling like really upset by that.
- [31:12]
Jack Wagner
Where were you when it told you this?
- [31:15]
David
I was just laying in my bed, just like about to go to sleep. Yeah. Just before a school night, just like.
- [31:21]
Jack Wagner
Going to bed and you heard your grandpa saying that you had to make a great sacrifice.
- [31:26]
David
Yeah, yeah. But that was the first time I felt him.
- [31:30]
Jack Wagner
That must have been terrifying.
- [31:31]
David
Yeah, yeah, it was the first time I heard his voice and. But in my mind I was like, that's not my granddad. When it first happened it was. Yeah, there was just like hearing your granddad's voice like in your head. It was the exact same like the way he talked, like he talked about things that we would talk about when he was alive and then started to like change. Like it was mimicking my granddad's voice but I could tell the difference. It'd be like if someone was really good at doing impressions, if you start to listen carefully, you'd realize that's not actually, that's not actually my granddad's voice, you know, it's just someone doing an impression of my granddad's voice.
- [32:18]
Steven
So she ended up moving in with us. She moved out of her parents house and came and lived with us. Like turn. Her parents just didn't get along, they fought all the time and she just wanted to be out of. I, I don't think she wanted to have people telling her what to do was the honest thing. Like she just wanted to be like, you know, a rebellious 17 year old, 16 year old and stopped going to school pretty much. So like we were going to school together and because she was no longer at home and no longer had her mum or dad telling her to go to school, she just like stopped going and it was at the same time. So she was living with us in this typical small little granny flat in the backyard built into the garage. And it was at the same time that she started practicing witchcraft. And I don't really know the details into what she was doing or what was going on when I wasn't at home, I suppose. But yeah, so I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what she was doing with that whole thing but she made like a small little shrine and she'd made a wand and all this sort of stuff. I didn't really think much of it, I just sort of thought it was a bit weird. To be honest, one day I came home from school and she was like, I found my new religion. And I was like, what? Okay. Like, I had no idea what it was. And then it wasn't long after that that we split up. And then it was like, after she left that, like, things got. Yeah. Like, all this bad stuff started happening.
- [33:58]
David
Yeah. I remember being a bit more, like, concerned about what Casey had brought into the house. Like, because she'd been doing these rituals and all this witchcraft stuff that she was studying. And she made this, like, totem in the room, and it was, like, still in the room. I remember thinking at that time, like, oh, she's brought, like, some demon into the house with this ritual shit that she's been doing. That's when I started to believe it more and being like, this is reality. Like, there is this evil thing that exists that we don't know about. He never knew what the rituals were about. He just said that she would do them in the house. And then he just told me more about, like, what had happened previously. Like, not everything, though. Like, only recently. He told me some things that I still didn't know, but. But it was like, at that time was when Casey was just kind of disappearing and, like, she wasn't coming over as often. And my brother was really, like, really upset at that time. It happened so randomly. It was like, not long after the Ouija board thing and that when I started getting a dark energy from her that she just kind of disappear.
- [35:05]
Steven
Yeah. So she went away for the, like, the snow season. And after a few weeks, everything was sort of like, you know, going okay. It was a bit strange, but, yeah, after a few weeks, she just messaged me and said, don't contact her again. I won't contact you. And then, yeah, she never came back to Canberra. She never came back to town. And, yeah, I never saw her again after that. So that's when this, like, this dark entity makes itself, like, felt around us, I suppose. And it was just like. It started with, like, small things like banging and crashing, and I could see all this stuff happening around me. But I think I was just, like, so depressed at the time. Like, I don't know. It's strange because it was scary and it was weird, but it didn't actually, like, it was just, like, sort of happening around me, I guess. Well, I think that she was psychic in some sense. And then I think that whatever she was doing in that house while, you know, other people. Well, no one was home. I don't know what she was doing, but I think she sort of bought some sort of entity into that space and didn't get rid of it before she left. Whether she did that consciously or unconsciously, I don't know. And then it was like after she left that, like, everything started going crazy.
- [36:53]
Jack Wagner
All right, we'll be right back after this. Quick break.
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David
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David
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Steven
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David
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Steven
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David
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Steven
Football is fun.
- [37:57]
David
Why shouldn't your football podcast be the same? Follow and listen to Heed the Call NFL podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah. After my granddad voice told me that I needed to make a big sacrifice, I started feeling that dark entity more. And, like, my granddad's voice, I think, because I could tell that it wasn't my granddad, and I started not to believe it was that. It started to talk to me in this, like, dark, evil voice I'd never heard before and just, like, taunting me, like, saying, you're not stronger than me. And I remember, like, trying to tell it in my head, like, just leave me alone. Like, I'm not scared of you, but, like, being scared of it. And it could tell that I was scared of it, and it enjoyed it. And it was like, I could tell that it was enjoying me being scared. Like, it wouldn't even really say anything to me. Then after that, I started having a lot of nightmares, like, really dark nightmares. And it felt like, very real. Like, I'd never really had such realistic dreams. I remember one of them, I had a nightmare of me killing my brother. And then I was, like, riding on the walls with his blood, and I was, like, seeing it from, like, a third person perspective. So, like, I saw my body on one side of the wall, like, his dead body. On the floor, and I was, like, playing with his blood and painting it on the walls. And I remember, like, standing back, looking at myself doing that in shock and being like, what the hell am I doing? Like, trying to stop myself. But I was, like, this frozen, watching. I remember that voice talking to me and telling me, like, that's a sacrifice you have to make. That's when I started to freak out. Like, I think I'm going fucking crazy. I need to talk to my parents. Or like, this has gone too far.
- [39:50]
Jack Wagner
Yeah, this does sound crazy.
- [39:51]
David
Yeah. Yeah. I remember being like, am I losing my mind? Like, am I actually going to kill my brother one day?
- [39:56]
Jack Wagner
Like, do you feel like these thoughts were coming from you or from something else?
- [40:03]
David
Yeah, from something else. Yeah. It definitely didn't feel like it was my own thoughts. I remember it was maybe a night or two after it told me to make a big sacrifice, and then it came back and was talking to me about making the sacrifice again in my granddad's voice. And then I remember saying, like, in my mind that, you're not my granddad. I know you're not my granddad. And then it started talking to me in this other voice that I'd never heard before. Like, this kind of scary, dark, deep voice telling me that, like, the sacrifice you need to make is kill your brother. And then I remember telling it, like, you can't control me. I'm not scared of you. Like, you have no power over me. And it was laughing and, like, telling me that it knows I'm scared of it. And I remember that point, I felt, like, really out of control of myself and being like, oh, God, I can't control this thing anymore. It's taking, like, it knows that I'm scared now. And then as I was getting more and more scared, it was, like, kind of provoking that feeling and, like, mocking me. And then it would just leave abruptly. Like, it would just leave out of my mind, out of nowhere. And then I could kind of relax again a bit. Yeah, like, it left the room.
- [41:20]
Jack Wagner
What did the voice sound like?
- [41:22]
David
Like an older man. Like an older. Older English man. Like, deep voice.
- [41:27]
Jack Wagner
That's pretty terrifying. Where would you hear it coming from?
- [41:30]
David
Like, over my left shoulder is how it felt, which made it more scary because I was, like, trying to look around, like something's talking to me in my left ear, but it was nothing. Like, it was just in my mind.
- [41:40]
Jack Wagner
Were you concerned that you're experiencing, like, a serious mental health crisis at this point? Because, like, I mean, this.
- [41:50]
David
Yeah, definitely.
- [41:50]
Jack Wagner
After that this kind of sounds a lot like. Yeah, this sounds a lot like people that do end up killing their brother because the voice told them to do it like this.
- [42:00]
Steven
Yeah.
- [42:01]
David
100.
- [42:03]
Jack Wagner
That does happen.
- [42:03]
David
Yeah, I know.
- [42:04]
Steven
Yeah.
- [42:05]
David
And I remember actually feeling that. Like, it's funny that you said that. I remember at that point, I was like, this is how. Yeah. Other people end up killing their family. Like, year of, like, teenage murderers or something that have, like, schizophrenic breakdowns. And I definitely remember at that time being like, I've lost control of my. I've lost control of my mind. And it was really weird because I was, like, such a normal, not violent person. Normal kid. Just, like, never thought of anything deep. It was always, like, never thought of anything crazy. And it was really out of the ordinary for me in my personality. Yeah. So I remember being in my room and being really upset. So I decided to go. I'm gonna go talk to my brother about it. I remember coming down, he was, like, in bed, and I was like, I need to talk to you, because I'm, like, worried about what's going on. I've been having feelings of this thing wanting me to kill you. And I had this. I explained the nightmare I had of me killing him and painting his blood. And he was like. Like, he was shocked, but he was also, like, cuddling me. And he's like, don't fucking listen to it. Like, I know how much love you have in your heart, and I know you'd never do something like that. Like, you need to tell him that you would never do anything like that. And, like, this. Show him, like, how much love you have in your heart will make it go away. I remember, like, I was crying at the time and, like, he was cuddling me and, like, telling me he knows that I'm not capable of that, and he knows that the thoughts that I'm having are not coming from me and that I'm not crazy. And then I remember my brother was telling me some of the things Casey would do in the room. Like some witchcraft, witch rituals. And she had, like, all these totem things that she had around the room. There was still, like, one in the room. It was like this stick with all these shells and stuff put on it. My brother said that he'd never, like, had the entity speak to him, but he felt it watching him, and he felt that it just hated him. Like, he just felt this hatred and that it was watching him and hated him, and it was jealous of him. And I had the same feeling, like, I had a feeling that this thing hated him because it was like Casey, he owned Casey, that evil entity. And Steven was taking Casey away from this evil entity. And it was jealous about that and, like, hated him.
- [44:22]
Steven
I never really, like, felt like my life was in danger. Like, I wasn't going to bed worried that Dave was going to get possessed and come into my room and kill me. Like, I just. It never really crossed my mind as like a real possibility of something that could happen. Like, I always just sort of thought that, like, Dave wouldn't let that happen. Like, as much as he was getting shown these, like, fucked up images in his head and these sorts of things. Like, I just never really thought that he would act on them. Obviously, I know that he said that the spirit was sort of like using my grandfather as like a. Like using that as like a shield to get in sort of thing. Like he would show up as my grandfather and talk to Dave or converse with Dave, but it was like, not quite right. And there was this like, dark thing underneath it. There was definitely, like something that was jealous of me. Around her, I guess. Like there was this, yeah, this like, oppressive energy or whatever that was like, yeah, was telling people to hurt me.
- [45:31]
David
The next few months, like, got really intense with the evil entity. It was really draining me. It was like everywhere I was. I always felt it in my mind. And I remember a lot of times I would tell it, just leave me alone. You're not stronger than me. Like, I'm. I can do whatever I want with you. I can get you to leave if I want. And it was like, scared of me. Sometimes I could tell it would, like, shrivel up and be like, small and I'd be able to overpower it. Like the physical energy of it controlling my mind or me being in control of my mind. And then I remember one night I was in bed, about to go to sleep. It was trying to talk to me while I was trying to sleep. And I remember at that time I was just over it and I just wanted to move on with my life. So I just said, just leave. I don't care about you. Like, who are you? What are you? And then it said, like, I am the embodiment of evil. Like, I was Hitler. I was Alester Crowley. And at the time I remember being like, what the hell's on a list? Like, I didn't know what Alester Crowley was. I remember the next day I talked to my brother and I was like, what is the. Have you heard of Aleister Crowley? And he said, oh, that's like the guy from Led Zeppelin. Like, the guy from Led Zeppelin talked about him. So, like, I could have, like, subliminally, like, heard the name before. Cause, like, afterwards I realized it's like a pretty common thing. But at the time I was confused, like, what Aleister Crowley was.
- [46:48]
Jack Wagner
How did you interpret what it said? Do you think it was being literal? Is that how you interpreted it?
- [46:54]
David
Yeah. So it was saying, like, it's not saying, I am Hitler and I am Aleister Crowley. It was saying, I am, like, the embodiment of all evil that exists in human history. Like, anything evil that happens is because of me. It didn't make sense to me at the time for him to say it like that. And then I remember thinking at the time, like, oh, so this thing is like Hitler's ghost or something? Or, like Aleister Crowley's ghost. But then as it went on, I realized that it's like anything that evil that happens is because of this. I think later in life I started realizing that, like, maybe consciousness is everything that exists, and this part of consciousness that is evil was what was controlling us. So one night my brother was out at a party, and it was during, like, a week or two after they broke up. He was, like, really depressed and he called my mum to come pick him up. We went to go pick him up from the house party. And then he got into the car and he was just, like, crying, like, bawling his eyes out as we were driving. I remember, like, putting my hand on him and, like, I had this feeling in me that was like, you can heal him. Like, put your hand on him and calm him down. And it was like, from a higher being, part of my brain that was, like, telling me, like, you know how to heal him. Like, you can just do it. Just put your hand on him and, like, you can kind of suck out the bad energy with. He's feeling with your hand. And then I remember putting my hand on his leg. He was in the back seat and I was in the passenger seat and my mum was driving. And then I just felt, like, this crazy hot burning going up. My arm went into, like, my chest and I started, like, shaking. I remember just, like, feeling my whole body just tensed up and my back arched. And then I kind of was, like, screaming, like, in pain. And my mum was driving and she was just like, what is happening? Oh, my God, what's going on? Steve was just like, it's all right, it's all right. But he just, like, all of a sudden became happy. But I was like having, like my body was getting attacked by something. I just heard this voice in my head that said, like, put your hand on his knee and you can, like, take all his sadness away. You can take it for yourself. And I remember, like sucking it out of his. Like it felt like it was sucking through my hand into my body. I was confused. I was like, how did I, how did I do that? And like, what was that voice in my head telling me that I could do it? And why did I just believe the voice straight away that I could do it? And then that's when we told my mom about what had been happening to us because she was like, obviously could tell something was happening because I was having this crazy experience in front of her. Yeah. So I remember we explained everything to her and she was like, very supportive and she's like, I didn't know you were going through this. Why didn't you tell me? Why didn't you tell me this was happening to you? And I just remember saying, like, we didn't want to get you involved. I remember her just being really supportive and saying, like, I don't think you're lying. Like, I know this is, you know, happening to you guys because I remember us thinking that she thinks we're crazy or something. She was like, no, no, no, you're not crazy. But I remember her also being like very panicked by the whole situation and being like very upset.
- [49:58]
Jack Wagner
Do you think she would talk to me maybe?
- [50:00]
David
Yeah, yeah, she would for sure.
- [50:04]
Linda
Hi, I'm Linda, I'm Davey's mum. Yeah, I'm just here to talk about some things that happened to us. Lovely childhood. Like we, I mean, five kids. Sadly, me and their father did divorce. Davey was 18 at the time, so that would have been the biggest trauma for them in their lives. Otherwise, it was a very happy time. Four boys, a little girl, very close. The boys are so close and never fought. Just a normal, happy childhood. My dad worked, I stayed at home a lot with them. I was lucky enough to be a hands on stay at home mum a lot. So everything was happy, happy, happy, happy. And it changed when that happened. Davey changed and that went on for years and I was really sad about that. But I got him back now. He's wonderful. He's a wonderful man. But yeah, and same for Stevie. He was fantastic until he met Casey. He was a happy. After that whole thing, I said, where's my confident boy gone? And that lasted for years. Literally for years. It was really sad to see. I know that it was a horrible, horrible thing Whatever it was, and I'm pretty sure it was attached to Casey when she met them. And she was the one that brought it in. And that's why it was. That's why it was dead against my oldest son, Stevie, and just wanting to. Wanting to get rid of him. That's how I feel about it. We had built a kind of a granny flat. We converted a double garage into a home for my father and he had passed away in there two years before all this started happening. So my father had passed away in there and then my son was living in there. Devi. Casey came and moved in with him for a little while because apparently she was having trouble at home. So she came and stayed with him for a few months in the granny flat. And apparently they were mucking around one night with a Ouija board. She was witchy. She was like, she was into that witchcraft. She was doing all these spells and mucking around with things she probably shouldn't have. I didn't like her straight away. I didn't like her and she was certainly not. And I'm not the type of mum that, like, when a girl comes home with my boys, oh, I don't like them. Never. I love all the girlfriends, I love their wives, they're just beautiful. But I didn't like her at all. And I thought she was. She was, yeah. It's hard to explain. I knew she wasn't right for him and I knew she was gonna hurt him and she did. She was just odd. Yeah, a very odd girl. And actually Stevie put. Stevie did talk to me one day about her. We were driving and I asked how they were going and he said, mum, Casey's different. She's different. And it was like a full on thing because he doesn't talk like that. And I said, what do you mean different? And he goes, oh, well, you know, she's got. He said. He described her as an empath. But I hate people that say they're empaths. Like, I just think it's overused and it's like we've all got empathy, right? What's the difference between. Well, most of us do anyway. And then I said, what do you mean? He goes, well, she's just different. She's got like these abilities and she's, you know, she's different to most people in that way in that he didn't go into detail about things that she sees or. But I know that she was into witchy stuff and spells and I think she was using us and using him. You know, we gave her A home, because she didn't have. She reckons she got kicked out of home, but I think. Pretty sure that didn't happen. I think she just wanted to stay with. Stay with him down there. I don't know. She wasn't around for long, but she left a legacy, that's for sure. And I'm pretty sure it all started with her.
- [53:42]
Jack Wagner
He told me about a time, I think you picked them up from a party. Do you remember that?
- [53:48]
Linda
Oh, yeah.
- [53:49]
Jack Wagner
Tell me about that, what you remember.
- [53:51]
Linda
Okay, so my eldest son, Stevie, he was at a party with his friend Paul, and Dave was home with us, and we were just watching telly, and Davey came out and said, stevie's upset. He's at the party's upset. He wants us to come and pick him up. So we hopped in the car, me and Davey. Davey was in the front seat with me, and we went and picked them up. And as soon as the two boys got in the car, Davey was not Davey anymore. He was slapping himself in the face really hard with both hands. It's really bringing it back. It was upsetting. And he was. His eyes. He just wasn't there. He wasn't Davey. And he was. I know you're gonna think this is absolutely insane, but he was actually lifting off the seat. His head was hitting the ceiling of the car. He wasn't there. It wasn't him. He wasn't there. I couldn't get through to him. I kept saying, stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself. The other boys were in the backseat and they weren't really there either. And I was just screaming and crying and asking him, telling him to stop hurting himself. I have tried really hard to forget about this stuff because it was so scary. So we've driven off and I've had to pull over again because I was just freaking out. And to my memory, things settled down for the rest of the trip home. But as soon as I got home, I just said, all right, we've got. I've called a meeting. We've got to sit down with your father, and we need to talk about this. So their dad, my ex husband, he's just completely not into this stuff at all. He doesn't believe it. There's no afterlife. There's nothing. He's very simple about all this stuff. He's very closed. But he sat and we talked about it, and I told him exactly what had happened in the car and how scary. And I couldn't believe that it happened. And so we sat and we talked about it for ages. And, like, my Husband was. My ex husband was like, have you kids been doing drugs? You know, asked all those questions and they were completely stubborn. We know that Davey was as well because he was at home. They were always very upset and very shaken up. He did really scare me because he was talking about things that I thought, this can't be right. Are you, I thought maybe are you having like, is there something really wrong with you? Like schizophrenia or something? Like he had voices in his head all the time or like he was hearing things, the thing was telling him things or talking to him. And yeah, he believed, I thought he. I thought that he believed he had certain abilities. And I wasn't sure if it was true or not at the time. So obviously, you know, I did think about all these things. I thought, wow, you know, do I, what do I do here? Should I get him some help? Like he had voices in his head all the time or like he was hearing things, the thing was telling him things or talking to him. And I was trying to explore every avenue in terms of, is it, is it this or is it something else? Like as a mother would, you know, and then you just get on with, Then you go to work and you get on with your day. It's bizarre. It's like this shit is happening, but I've still got to get on with my life and be a mother. You know, I had a little toddler at the time, a little girl, she's only two. And these things are happening to your kids in your house and you've just got to keep going. Bizarre. It's like one of those things you go, did this really happen? Like it can't of. It's like, it's just crazy.
- [57:40]
Jack Wagner
Thank you to David, Steven and their mom Linda for speaking to me. Stay tuned for the second half of this story coming very soon. This episode was called the Granny Flat Part one and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice, Jackal and North Americans. This episode was edited by myself and engineered by Theo Schaeffer. Our associate producers are Nikki Kate Delgado and Haley Pearson. Our artwork is by Cul de Sac Studios. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you can become a patron@patreon.com Otherworld Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five star review and telling your friends about the show. Our social media is otherworldpod. Thank you to the team at Odysee. Leah Rhys Dennis, Rob Mirandi, Eric Donnelly, Maura Curran, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor, Michael lavey, Josephina Francis, and Hilary Shuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odysee app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural or unexplained, you can send us your story@storiesotherworldpod.com it.