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- [00:00]
David
Foreign.
- [00:12]
Jack Wagner
Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. In the last episode, David explained how one evening when he was 15 and watching a movie with his brother and his brother's new girlfriend, their lives took an abrupt turn. A presence seemed to have entered their house and began communicating with David. And it all seemed to start around the time that his brother's new girlfriend, Casey, entered the picture. David was suddenly experiencing something communicating with him. At first he thought it was his grandpa, but then it evolved into something dark. And this thing was telling David strange things like that he needed to make a big sacrifice and that the sacrifice was killing his older brother. Whether this thing was something already attached to Casey, something that was brought in from her doing some sort of rituals in a reckless way, or maybe it was already in the house and kind of awoken, or maybe it was multiple things at once. Nobody seemed to be sure either way. It was getting increasingly intense and really ramped up when Casey left for a trip, broke up with Steven and never came back to town. And I want to be clear that this stuff was happening very frequently over a long period of time. They told me they could tell when this thing walked into the room and where it was. It was like a shift in the atmosphere and then everything would take a turn. When I spoke to these boys, even 15 years later, I could tell how difficult it was to be bringing this stuff up. At times it felt more like a therapy session than an interview. Whatever this thing was, wherever it came from, it made their lives very difficult for many years. We're gonna pick up right where we left off. This is part two of the Granny Flat and you're listening to Otherworld.
- [02:29]
Steven
Hello, is this Bobby?
- [02:30]
David
Yes, it is at its core the.
- [02:32]
Steven
Science you can't argue with. I'm so worried about all of a.
- [02:35]
Linda
Sudden is up in the sky.
- [02:36]
Steven
It's almost frustrating that it's happening.
- [02:38]
Linda
I'm literally, I'm gonna die.
- [02:40]
David
It's were just like wrong. Everybody moves back into the light, even.
- [02:45]
Linda
If it takes them a minute. We decided the next after that I just went, I need to talk to someone about this because I was just so upset and I didn't know what to do. So I organised to talk to my sister and her husband and me and my husband went over the next day and we had a full on meeting about it and they were just like, wow. I don't think they knew what to say. They did not believe us or anything but like I was just. I wouldn't sit and talk to anyone about this unless I was super worried because lots of other things were happening as well. I was having dreams that, you know, it's not a dream, it's completely different to a dream. But it was while I was either halfway between sleeping and waking up or in that part of sleeping where it's so different to a dream. It's 100% clear, and you remember it crystal clear to this day. So this entity, whatever it is, whatever it was, was coming to me in my dreams. And one of the ones that I remember clearly was that it came. It's like it had, like, a black cloak. Like it was going over its head like that and coming down. I didn't see any body, but the face was constantly changing, and it was horrible. Just constantly changing when I was looking at its face. But every face was scary and just filled me with so much fear. It took me into a graveyard and showed me my son Stevie's grave with his name and his date of birth and death. He was basically taunting me and saying, he's gonna die. We're gonna get him. Like, showing me his. Showing the mother her own son's grave, like, just awful. Another time, I was sort of like, again, I felt like I was awake, but I must have been just not 100% asleep, but not 100% awake. But I woke up and I could feel this strong, scary energy coming down the hallway to my room. I knew it was something coming, and I sat up and it came in and it went straight through me and out the other side. Scared the hell out of me. And then the next time that I felt that happen, because I learned from when I started doing a bit of help with spiritual healing and that, they said, just tell it, tell it, tell it to basically tell it to F off. Just be as angry as you can and not as scared. Don't be scared. Just sort of basically taunt it back. So every time this would happen again, I would just go, fuck off, fuck off and get out of my house. Leave me alone. Get the fuck out of here. And I just said, I'm not scared. You're pathetic. You are so pathetic. And I started doing that a bit. And the other thing I started doing, which was something that I was taught to do as well, was I would lie in bed and I had to visualise each of one of my children in their beds. And I had to have my own white light visualization. And for me, the white light was like a massive, big angel with big white wings. And I would wrap each of my children up in that white, beautiful white Big white angel energy and light. And I'd do it individually with each of my kids, just imagining them in their beds. So with that and with also telling it to fuck off a lot, it did eventually leave me alone. It did. It seemed to work. It didn't leave the boys alone as quickly. I don't know if Davey told you about my youngest son, Harry. He was about 6 at the time. And he started talking about the ugly man. Yeah, so he was saying the ugly man was talking to him and the ugly man was telling him to do things. And this went on at that whole time, that same time. This is what was going on with him. He was seeing it. He didn't seem ultra scared and it wasn't really making him not sleep or anything like that. So I sort of thought maybe the ugly man was someone that was nice. But. So, yeah, Harry was seeing the ugly man and talking about the ugly man a lot. And I remember even one day I was driving and he was in the back seat, in the middle, in his car seat and he said, look mom. And he pointed out the front windscreen, he said, there's the ugly man. I never saw it, but. So that was freaky. Davey probably knows more about that because I knew at that point that Davey had a lot of stuff going on as well. And he. And I said, can you please talk to your brother, see what this is and see what's going on. So they had a talk and then it sort of all stopped. Ugly man thing just stopped at some point. But it went on for several months.
- [08:06]
Steven
My mum came to me one day and she knew that we were going through all this at this point and she told me, you need to talk to your little brother. He's been talking to me about this ugly man at that point, like I was angry. I was like, why is this thing trying to hurt a little five year old boy? Like, has nothing to do with anything. I don't want to get him involved in this. He's like innocent. And I remember being so angry at that point, I was like, like in my head just telling him like, you stay the fuck away from my brother. I went and talked to him. I didn't know how to talk to a 5 year old about this kind of thing without scaring him. So I was just like, harry, I just wanted to talk to you. I put him like, I found him in his room. Obviously he's like a five year old. So it's hard to really, yeah. Talk about it without scaring him. But I was just like, do you know any, what's this ugly man that you've been talking to? And he just said, oh, ugly man's just somebody that comes in my room. And then I said, what is he? Like what do you guys talk about? And he's like, oh, nothing really. Like sometimes he asked me to do things and I was like, what kind of things? And he's like, oh, he tries to scare me sometimes. And I was like, do you get scared? And he said, yeah, sometimes I get a bit scared. I said, what is it? Like, what was one of the times that scared you? And he said he went to the toilet in his school. When he went to wash his hands, he looked in the mirror and it was. He said he saw a man standing behind him with mud coming out of his mouth. And like I just remember like having shivers, like even right now talking about it. It made me feel so sick. I was like, what the fuck? Like why would a 5 year old have to experience this? And I remember getting really angry and I just like told him like, don't worry about him. Like he can't hurt you, he can't scare you. He's just been silly. Don't let him talk to you anymore. He's not welcome to talk to you. And then it was about a couple weeks later and we were at my auntie's house, we were all just all hanging out. I have a whole massive family, like a whole bunch of cousins and aunties, and we're all like having a big dinner and everything. And then everyone was like, where's Harry gone? And we all started looking around for Harry. And then they had like a staircase that went up to the bed, like where the kids bedrooms were. So I went up the staircase. Everyone was looking around the house and the like out in the backyard. And then I went up to the top stairs. It was just myself. And then I was walking to the bedroom at the end of the hallway. I was walking down there and I heard my brother like talking to himself and I was like, oh, Harry's here. So I went to go open the door and it was like hard to open. It was like there was something against it. So I was like, what the hell? I wasn't thinking anything at the time. I was just like, what the hell? What's he doing in there? So I pushed it really hard and as I pushed it it like opened and I saw a hand on the other side of the door, like a white pale hand grasping the doorknob. White, like pale fingers. Then as I pushed it and then the hand disc kind of dissolved, like, into a mist in front of my eyes. And, like, would have happened over, like, two seconds. Like, enough for me to, like, take good notice of what I was seeing. I remember just looking at my little brother. He was sitting on the top bunk, and I was like, what the f. What are you doing to any Harry? And then he's like, I was talking to ugly man. At that point, I was. My whole skin just turned cold, and I was just like. That was probably the scariest moment of my life because we were just all having, like, a family get together. So I wasn't even thinking about any of this kind of stuff. And then for that to just happen out of the blue before, it was like I was questioning my insanity because I was seeing all these images in my own head. And it was like I could just explain it as an imagination, but then to see it with my own eyes and physically right there in front of me. That's when I was like, okay, like, this has gone beyond me being able to doubt myself, that I'm just imagining these things. Like, I'm physically seeing something manifest in reality right in front of me, but then also, like, overcome with anger at this thing and, like, wanting to protect my brother. I think the ugly man stopped bothering him eventually, but things kept getting worse for the rest of us. Me and my brother. Yeah. So then after that night, there was just more of the same. Like, my brother was upset, and he was drinking in his room. I started drinking with him together, even though I was, like, 15. But me and him started drinking together. We had fun drinking, but then something would happen, and he would just be upset, crying or. Usually after we got drunk, we'd start talking more about this. Because at that time, we just didn't want to talk about it anymore. Like, we just wanted to move on with our lives. We were over it, but I could still feel this evil entity in the room. But I didn't really bring it up with him until he started talking about it. And that's when he told me that it. Like, he knows it's there, but he just doesn't talk to it. He just feels it hates him. Steve had this friend called Paul. It's just, like, this really friendly, happy, like, Irish Aussie guy. And it's like we started having fun times, like, drinking and playing, like, Guitar Hero. Like, yeah, like, having crazy nights. I remember one night we were, like, drunk as. And we were playing Guitar Hero. And then we're just having, like, a fun night, as usual. And then suddenly I Felt like the entity in the room, which I just ignored, this evil entity. And I saw Paul looking in that area that I felt that the entity was. I saw him all of a sudden, like, he was clenching his fist, like, breathing really heavy, like he wanted to, like, kill somebody. And he started screaming at my brother, like, saying, I want to kill you. Or just, like, really angry at my brother is what. I remember this out of the blue, like, totally out of the ordinary for Paul, who's, like, just this happy, friendly, cheerful dude. And then all of a sudden, he just blew up out of nowhere with, like, nothing provoking that. And it's a blank stare. Like, I remember Steve, my brother, being like. Like, looking at him, like, what have I done? What did I do wrong? But I knew, like, exactly what was happening. So I, like, immediately grabbed him and started trying to calm him down. And I remember saying, it's all right, Paul. I know what's happening. Don't listen to it. Don't listen to it. He just snapped out of it. He just said, I don't know what happened. I just had this sudden urge to. He hurt you. That moment, for me, was, like, very shocking because that's the same feeling that I was getting from the entity that, like, it just wants me to hurt my brother now. That somebody else was having that feeling really made me believe it a lot more that it wasn't just me. Like, this is something external.
- [14:29]
David
It was like me and Dave would, like, all sort of make eye contact when it was, like, starting to happen, and it was like, oh, like, here we go kind of thing. Like, whether it was just like, a bang on the outside of the shed or things falling off shelves, like frames falling off walls, that kind of thing. We're all having fun. And then all of a sudden, like, the night just, like, you know, took on a bad turn. And, like, it happened with Paul a few times where, like, he would look at me and he'd have, like. It was like he wasn't any. Like. Like he wasn't behind his eyes anymore. Like there was something else there that was, like, looking at me. Like, just like a murderous sort of look in its face, you know, like within his eyes. Like, that wasn't him, you know? And then, Eva, Dave would, like, jump up and be like, you know, like, sort of, like, get in his face and be like, you know, this isn't like, you know, this isn't you. This isn't you. Come back to me sort of thing. Like, that kind of thing.
- [15:27]
Linda
I'm pretty sure it was attached to Casey when she met them. And that's why it was dead against my oldest son, Stevie, and just wanting to get rid of him. That's how I feel about it. He had friends that would just out of nowhere attack him. Like, yeah, they would just be sitting around talking, and the next minute he had a mate on him, trying to choke him. Just out of the blue. Out of the blue. And then the mate would be like, I don't know what happened. I don't know why I did that. So it was out to get Stevie. And I think that's what's really upset him for a long time, you know, the poor kid. Horrible.
- [16:14]
Steven
There was one night where me, Paul, my brother and he had two other friends come over, Frank and Kate. And when Frank got there, it was the first time I met him. And I just had, like, a dark, evil feeling for him. Like, I didn't like him at all. As soon as I met him, I was like, I don't like this guy. I feel not good at all about meeting him. Just I felt uneasy around Frank the whole night. So I was kind of, like, watching him. And I had the same feeling of, like, the entity being in the room. I remember seeing Frank randomly staring at the bookshelf, which is, like, where I felt where the entity was. He got up and just started walking towards a bookshelf. I remember just having that voice in my head just telling me, you need to stop him. And he just went towards the bookshelf, and it had a box cutter on the bookshelf. As he went over to get the box cutter, I remember him being totally in a trance state, like, totally calm. I remember, like, running over, and as soon as he put his hand on the knife, I was on his back and I had my hand grabbed on his hand holding the knife. And then I, like, bear hugged him. And then as soon as I did that, Paul ran over, grabbed me and helped me, like, overpower him. And he dropped the knife. And I remember talking to him, like, get out. Like, talking to the evil entity. Like, leave him alone. Get out of him. Get out of him. It was just totally out of the blue, just like, totally. No prior provocation. We're all just having a good time.
- [17:36]
David
The main one that I remember is the night that that knife got pulled out. And my friend's eyes were just, you know, like, rolling in the back of his head. That was the closest that it actually came to, like, physical confrontation. Confrontation. He was sort of just like dead, staring me in the eyes, like this, like, sort of super like, murderous look in his eyes. And he grabbed the flick knife that was on the bookcase and came at me with it. And I sort of just like sat there, like, sort of just like laughing at him. Like, what are you doing with that? Like, it was all sort of normal. And then all of a sudden it just like, sort of flicked. And he was super crank, like super angry, and my brother and my other friend were like holding him back and he eventually, like dropped it and then went outside. It all was just like, sort of happening around me. Like it was. It was all sort of normal. And then all of a sudden it just like sort of flicked or like the feeling in the. In the room would just like change, just like a really dark, oppressive, like, mass in the room. And then I guess it would like go away as well. And then we would just like carry on as normal afterwards, I guess. I don't know, it's just like. It's weird.
- [18:52]
Steven
After that as well. My mum, she was like coming and talking to me, like, what's happening? Like, I'm feeling this uneasy feeling around me as well. One day she came back, she said that she'd been attacked by a crow, which was really random, but she said it was like a really uneasy feeling. Like it was. The crow wasn't a crow, like it was some evil thing. It was like a day or two after that, she went to go to her car and she like screamed and I was like, oh, what's going on? And then I went to the car and there was like three dead birds inside of her car. But her door was locked, all the windows were up. What the fuck? Yeah, that's another thing that I haven't been able to explain to this day.
- [19:31]
Linda
I don't know if Davey told you about the black birds in my car. I got up to go to work and I had two black dead birds in my front seat of my car. I ran and got Davey and I said, my God, my God, look, this is ridiculous, this is ridiculous. Now I've got dead birds in my car. And he got them out and put them in the rubbish for me.
- [19:51]
Steven
I was getting ready for school and then she went to go start the car up to warm it up because, like, we live in Canberra, it's really cold, so you have to defrost the windows. She went outside, I was inside and then I just heard her screaming. I was like, don't worry, I'll deal with it. Like, she was overreacting. So I just said, just go inside, I'll get rid of them. I opened the door on the front seat. There was just these dead birds that had been mutilated. I didn't really want to take a good look at it. And exactly like obsess where these birds had been killed or how they'd been killed, but there was like blood on them. And I remember just picking them up, putting them in the garbage bag and then throwing them in the wheelie bin. I just closed the door, went back inside and my mum was freaking out. She said the doors were all locked, all the windows were wound up. She's like, you would think I would know if I like closed the door and the birds were in there and then they suffocated or something. And I remember feeling like, oh, I don't want. Because she thought they suffocated. So I didn't want to tell her that they were like bloody as well. And the only thing I could think in my head was like, maybe a cat killed them and put them in there. But, like it didn't look like a cat killed them. Like these were just like something had cut them or something. There's also something else that happened that I didn't know if I wanted to talk about because it sounds so ridiculous in a way. So it was before my mum got attacked by the crows, but I was sitting in the room.
- [21:23]
David
Yeah.
- [21:24]
Steven
So when I would receive messages, it would. I would just be in this weird state where I was kind of just like a blank slate. There was no thoughts in my head and I would just get these, these. It sounds like a thought, but it's not in my own voice. And it would just pop in like a thought. And all it said was, he can turn into a crow. The voice told from my guardian angel told me that this evil entity can manifest in it as a crow. And when he first said that, I was. When I heard that, I just thought like, what is the relevance to that? How is this going to help me get rid of this thing? So I told my brother that this guardian angel told me that he can manifest as a crow. And then as he said that, we looked at the shelf and there was a picture of a crowd. It was a cardboard whiskey box for a four pack can and it was called Old Crow Whiskey and there's a picture of a crow on it. I immediately just had the feeling like, we need to get rid of this, we need to burn this. And I told my brother, we need to burn this, we need to get rid of this. In my mind I knew that obviously this was just an empty piece of Rubbish. But for some reason, I thought if I put enough energy into me burning him, it was like I could cast him out just through my own thoughts in a way. Like, if I thought, if I believed strong enough that I was burning this piece of cardboard in ethagy of this evil entity, that it would actually do something to get rid of it. We took it outside, and I just remember repeating in my head over and over again. Like, as I started burning it, I just remember saying, like, you're going to leave us now. You're not welcome anymore. You have no purpose here. You don't scare us. And I remember as I was starting to burn it, it was kind of taunting me in my head, kind of saying, like, ours isn't going to achieve anything. Like, trying to make it sound like what we were doing was stupid. And there was a part of me that was like, this is so fucking dumb. But then there was another part of me that was thinking, if I believe it strong enough that this is you, then I am burning you. And I remember just kept on repeating myself, like, get out. You're not welcome. I'm not scared of you. And I remember when I started burning it, we heard, like, sizzling, like blood. My brother even said, is that blood coming out? Because it looked like black liquid was coming out of it, and it was sizzling. As soon as my brother said, is that blood coming out? I started hearing screaming in my ears, like, screaming in pain. And I remember, like, that encouraged me to, like, push further and be like, you're leaving now. You're leaving now. You're finally gone. And I was, like, laughing at it while it was burning. And then it fully burnt out. And then I just had this silence in my head. Like, as soon as the cardboard, it went from, like, screaming to all of a sudden just like, dead, deafening silence. And then I remember me and my brother just started, like, crying, and we were just, like, overcome with emotion. And I was like, we did it. We got rid of it. It's gone now. And then we went back to our room and, like, we were both just, like, in this state of, like, kind of just peace. It's. It did actually start to die down. Like, it wasn't definitely. It wasn't gone permanently, but it was getting less intense. I just started drifting away from my brother and Paul. Like, you know, they turned. They were probably 18, 19 at this point, and I was turning 16. So I started hanging out with people my own age at school and I'd go to house parties. I was trying my best to Ignore this whole thing. It's kind of settled down, like, this whole negative energy. And from the ages of, like, 16 to 18, I would kind of get overwhelmed every now and then when I was drunk or if something negative was around me or just say, I would feel this dark energy take me over. And at that point, I just wanted to ignore it completely. I didn't want to think about it. It's almost like the best way I could put it was, like. It was like knocking at the door, like, asking for, like, entrance into my mind in a way. So when it got to that stage of the anticipation building up, I would try anything to not acknowledge it. So I'd try and distract myself, like, pinching myself, slapping myself. And then when I felt, like, the anticipation building up, I'd start punching myself just in a way to distract myself enough. And then if it wasn't working, sometimes I'd just lose control, punch a wall. Like, the pain would sometimes be enough to not allow it to gain access to me. I think the fear of me being taken over by this thing, this evil entity, was more. It was more of a sacrifice than me physically being hurt at that time. Like, the fear of that was enough to make me hit myself, but it actually helped. I think I was, like, so desperate to not let this thing take a hold of me. Like, to anyone that saw me doing this where, like, it happened a couple times at, like, kind of house parties with, like, 3 or 4 of people I knew around, and they, like, definitely thought I was just insane. But it's not that out of the ordinary for, like, drunk teenagers to do crazy, erratic things. So no one really brought it up. But it definitely was on my mind that people. I was aware that people probably thought I was insane for doing this, but, you know, most people the next morning never mentioned it. It was just, like, kind of some. Dave got drunk and got super emotional. Yeah. Looking back on it sounds crazy, but at the time, what happened to me felt so real. So, yeah, it was the only way I could really deal with that.
- [26:54]
David
I don't, like. I don't know how. It's like. I honestly don't really know how it stopped. Like, they've all just sort of, like, blurred together for me in a way. Like, it was so long ago now. Yeah, it's not like, it's not nice to think about because it wasn't a great time for me. Like, really wasn't a great time. Like, it was really awful. And then it just, like, it stopped. It all stopped happening. And then I just spent the next sort of, you know, four or five years trying to, like, forget that it all had happened, I guess. And, yeah, I struggled for a long time after it.
- [27:46]
Jack Wagner
All right, we'll be right back after this quick break.
- [28:03]
Steven
Shopping is hard.
- [28:04]
Linda
I can never find anything in my size.
- [28:07]
Steven
I. I don't even know my size. I buy my clothes the same place.
- [28:10]
Jack Wagner
I buy my groceries.
- [28:11]
Linda
There's a better way. Make it easy with Stitch Fix. Just share your size, style, budget, and done. Your personal stylist sends pieces picked just for you.
- [28:20]
Steven
That was easy.
- [28:23]
Linda
Stitch Fix Online personal styling for everyone.
- [28:26]
Steven
Free shipping and returns. No subscription required.
- [28:29]
Linda
Get started today@stitchfix.com Are you looking for.
- [28:33]
Steven
A podcast about pro football that doesn't put you to sleep with an avalanche.
- [28:37]
Jack Wagner
Of analytics or insult your fandom with brainless hot takes?
- [28:40]
Steven
Well, hi, I'm Dan Hanzis.
- [28:42]
Jack Wagner
And I'm Mark Sessler.
- [28:43]
Steven
Oh, hi, Mark. And we're the hosts of Heed the Call, the NFL podcast you've been waiting.
- [28:47]
Jack Wagner
Your whole life for.
- [28:48]
Steven
Heed the Call covers every game, every storyline, everything that matters, and we do it all with a touch of mirth. Football is fun. Why shouldn't your football podcast be the same? Follow and listen to Heed the Call NFL Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
- [29:13]
Jack Wagner
So, as I mentioned before, I spoke to David and Steven multiple times for many hours in order to understand this strange story. Normally, you'd expect some sort of big event to come and save the day, but in their case, that's not really what happened. Life kind of just continued on, and they sort of tried to move past it and ignore that this thing was around them, affecting their lives. This presence would continue to haunt them. But for the most part, the intensity of those high school years did calm down a bit. I know that they continuously went through years of feeling like a black cloud was lingering over them and worrying that this thing might come back or that it never left in the first place. As you just heard, David even went to the point of physically hurting himself at times when he felt like the voice might start communicating with him again or even taking over. So a couple years went by like this. After high school, David ended up moving. And that's when the presence of this entity seemed to be coming back into his life. At this point, David told me that he had gotten into a really dark place in life, a darkness that he thinks started when he was just 15 in that granny flat. And as much as he tried to ignore it, he felt that this presence was still hovering over him. Impacting his life. And it seemed like other people might be able to sense that too.
- [30:49]
Steven
Yeah. So we had like a period of me and my brother kind of stopped talking about this whole evil entity and all the stuff that was happening to us and we just started living pretty normal lives. I was hanging out more with my rugby friends again. My older brother was hanging out with these friends. I met a girl on Tinder. She was just very negative to my life, like, make me depressed. She never worked, like, took all my money. And this went on for like two years of just kind of being in a hole. And I tried to break up with her the whole time as fuck, but she just know how to manipulate me. Like, I remember I broke up with her once and I was walking down the road and then I just hear like these footsteps, like slamming down the road. So I turn around and she just king hit me. Just punch me right in the nose. Yeah, it's real abusive, real abusive type shit.
- [31:43]
Jack Wagner
You and your brother seem to have really great taste in women.
- [31:46]
Steven
Ah, wild. I'm lucky I finally picked someone way too good for me. I started to, like, think about what happened when I was younger, a bit more, and started to think, like, maybe this demon never left. It's still around. It's just like making my life hell. Around that time, I just met a friend from cleaning a hotel and he was like in a Christian family, which I didn't really know at the time. His mum was actually the manager of the hotel. And then the mum started talking to me about coming to church. Thought it was stupid at the time. Like, I was never. Even though this stuff that happened to me, I kind of. For some reason I was turned against church in general. But like, they were just like a really happy, like New Zealander islander family. They were like super generous, like, looked after me well. So I was like, all right, I'll come. And I went to church with them once and it was like, just really nice. It was only about seven people there and it was all his family. His uncle was the guy who'd led the. The service or whatever. It was just like a really peaceful, nice experience. And then I started praying. It was like the first time I ever prayed. And I like walked up this hill that was next to my girlfriend's house. And at that time I just felt like hopeless, depressed, suicidal. And I remember, like, I found this like open area at the top of this hill, probably like a 10, 20 minute walk up this mountain. And I like found this moment. I had like this desperate moment of like, please Just something. Help me. I need something to change. I can't live like this anymore. I need a sign that you're here looking after me. And then as soon as I said that, like, I had my eyes closed looking down at the ground. And then this, like, these six magpies all just swooped me at once. Like, just all started flying around, swooping me, attacking me. And I was like, crying. It's like, what is going on? Why? Like, I'm asking you for help and you're just, like, sending these birds to attack me. But I also gotta have this feeling of, like, I don't know, like it was something. They're watching me. Like a God was watching over me or something for some reason. Even though I'm getting attacked?
- [33:44]
David
Yeah.
- [33:45]
Steven
Like, it felt like. Even though it was a bad sign, like I was getting attacked, like, it did feel like. It kind of felt like it was like, yeah, I'm not gonna do it for you. It wasn't long after that I invited my girlfriend to this, my dear Christian friend's house. And we're all having fun. And then as we're leaving, my friend's father in law, like, stopped me and my girlfriend and then said, you're no longer welcome here anymore. You're not welcome in the house. You've brought a demon into the house. And I was like, what the fuck? Like, why the fuck are you saying that? So my girlfriend got in the car and she's like, fuck you, I don't want to come here anymore. Anyway, we both. She like, said, let's go. So I got in the car to drive away, but I was really upset. My girlfriend's like, who the fuck? Who are these people you brought me to? Like, they're fucking. We got to go. This is fucked up. And I was like, nah, nah. I'm going up to talk to them. Like, they. They've been telling me, like, anyone's welcome. And then they tell you this shit. Like, this is bullshit. So I, like, stormed upstairs, really pissed off. I like, went back into the house. Like, they had a staircase going into the living room. I like, stormed up the staircase and I was like, hey, like, how dare you, like, say anyone's welcome? And then you accuse me of bringing a demon into the house. Out of the, like, quarter of my eye, the kitchen's, like, behind me on the right side. I just see this guy walk into the room. All of a sudden I realized it was the priest. And I was like, what's he doing? And he just says, like, with his loud voice, like, get this demon out of this boy. And as soon as he said that, I just went into shock. I fell onto the ground and I just started feeling this burning that I, like, hadn't felt since I was, like, 15. My emotion went from being really angry to surprised, because he didn't just come in and say, like, get out of this boy. In a calm voice. He, like, came in with, like, a booming. He's like a big islander guy. He came with, like, a booming voice and said, demon, get out of this boy. And I was, like, so shocked. And I think this immediately, like, brought all these memories to the front of my head. And my whole body just collapsed. Like, it was like. I just, like, fell, like, a limp. I just went limp. My whole body just went limp. I collapsed on the floor. And then I remember the priest grabbed my arm and he said, get out of this, boy. And he squeezed my hand. And then I just felt, like this burning feeling starting in my heart, just went through my chest, through my shoulder, through my hand, and getting sucked into the priest's hand. And then at the same time, I had my friend's mum and his auntie, like, on either side of my shoulder, like, get out of this boy. Get out of this boy. And also speaking in tongues, which was like, speaking in essentially gibberish. And I just remember being, like, insanely overwhelmed.
- [36:34]
David
I was.
- [36:34]
Steven
Tears flying out of my face, and I had this feeling that they were, like, taking something from me. Like, something that I was a part of me now. Like, it'd been growing in me, and it's, like, become a part of me, and I didn't want to let it go. And then I just had this voice in my head, just tell me, like, to say that it's gone. To say it's over. To say it's over. Like a desperate sound. It was, like, desperately trying not to get taken away from me. It felt like it was part of my own body at that time. Like, it didn't feel like this evil entity. It felt like it was a part of me getting sucked out into this priest's hand. And it was, like, pleading with me, like, please, just tell them it's over. Just tell them you fixed this. Tell them you're fixed. Desperate, like, really desperate feeling. And I felt like it was. I felt like the energy that moved from my heart was like. It was like half of it had been sucked out of my body. And it was like the last little bit of it was, like, gripping into, like, near my elbow. I remember just being like, oh, you fixed me and, like, pretending and being like, oh, it's okay. It's gone now. You fix me. Thank you. Thank you so much. And, like, lying to them because, like, I felt that it was, like, a part of me, and I didn't want to let it go. But I also knew that, like, what it was, like, I knew it was, like, this evil side of me that, like, I didn't want to be a part of me anymore. Like, I could kind of tell that they knew that I was lying in a way, and they're, like, trying to get me to stay. And then they were telling me, like, it's her. It's her. You need to break up with her. Like, you need to not be around her. Like, we can help you. We can help you. And I was like, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Like, thank you for helping me. Thank you for saving me. And this is all so weird for my personality. Like, to be honest, it's really. For me to even be at church is like a massive. Something totally out of the ordinary. And then for this to happen was, like, shocked me because I'd spent, like, years just not even thinking about this kind of thing, and, like, kind of just thinking it was all bullshit. And then I just left. I just left the house. Yeah. So I. I'm walking down the stairs, and my heart is just racing. I feel absolutely defeated. I felt like I let this entity stay inside me, and I started to believe it all again. And I was like, oh, God, this thing has been ruining my life. And this was the opportunity to get rid of it. But I'm too scared. I'm, like, become attached to it. Like, I've become attached to this thing, and I, like, want it to be a part of me. I felt embarrassed that I lost control like that. And I was, like, so paranoid for, like, what I was about to deal with with my girlfriend at the time being in the car. I knew I had to just, like, try and put on a straight face immediately after this happening to me and, like, pretend that nothing happened because I didn't want her to know that I just had an exorcism take place. It just escalated insanely quickly. Like, I went through all these emotions of being, like, accused of bringing a demon into this guy's house, and then me being, like, totally offended by that and upset. And then I. All of a sudden, I'm having an exorcism done on me out of nowhere and being totally overwhelmed by it actually working and, like, bringing all these emotions that I had when I was 15 back. It was just like an insanely overwhelming, like, passage of events. I felt like I just like ran a marathon or something. My body was aching. I was drenched in sweat. I felt numb. Like I was feeling pins and needles all over my body. And I also felt kind of dirty. Like I felt. It was like a feeling of being a complete loser. Yeah. So like, as I'm walking to the car, I feel all these feelings and then I remember like getting close to opening the door and be like, all right, I need to put a straight face on. I can't let her see me like this. So I just opened the door and I was like, yeah. I just told him, like, to get fucked. I'm never coming back. And then I remember on the drive home, just like her venting and just like being like, oh, fuck them. They're fucking cunts. You're never seeing them again. I was like, yeah, of course I don't want to see them again. That was fucked. But the whole time I was like, just empty headed, like just thinking about what the hell just happened to me. I wasn't even really listening to what she was saying. After this experience with the. My friend with the exorcism, I like definitely felt that this thing never left and it's still with me. I went through like another year and a half of like hell with this ex girlfriend. We broke up after that. I got insanely depressed. Like, I was depressed because she was gone. I was depressed that like, I put up with her for so many years. I just like, couldn't take it anymore. I ended up moving to Sydney just on a whim. I had a day off work. I applied for a job in Sydney and then I went up there with like $300 and they told me, like, can you start on Thursday? Then I met my wife about a year after I moved here. And then we had a kid two years after that. I knew this thing was like never gone, but, you know, just everything started going real well for me. My new wife is amazing. My daughter was amazing. But I always felt that it was still there. It never left. And then my daughter got diagnosed with a rare kidney condition, genetic condition. When she was three months old, she essentially, she needed to get a kidney transplant. We were told by the doctors that it's not like a really great success rate of her getting to a certain age to get the kidney. I ended up being the kidney donor and leading up towards getting the transplant. And I was like, I started freaking out about this demon again and I started having nightmares again. And Then I had this dream where it like, went. It was in my room, and then I told it to leave my room, and then I saw it run into my daughter's room. So I was like, what the? So I like, followed it in there and then it was like this big, scary demon, like, standing over my daughter's bed. I got so angry, I, like, run over and grabbed it by the throat. And I was like, don't you go near my daughter. And he's like, started off this big, scary demon, and as I was squeezing his throat, he, like, shriveled up into this, like, tiny little thing. And he was like, begging me to, like, gasping for air. And then I, like, woke up and I was like, drenched in sweat. Like, what the was that? And leading up towards the getting the transplant, I decided that I should, like, start meditating or do something to help me process what was happening. Yeah, so I started doing a lot of meditation. I got become like, obsessed with it. I found the Monroe tapes on the forum on Reddit, and I had no idea what they were about. I just thought they were like these cool meditation tapes. So I started looking into the tapes more and I realized that, like, the Monterey tapes are made to induce out of body experiences. And I just became obsessed with these tapes. Like, I was doing them two, three sessions a day. Like, it was like a whole new reality, like a whole new different version of how you can live your life. I started one night. I just had this really intense out of body experience. Feel like I finally was able to, like, come to terms with what this evil entity was. And, like, through doing these tapes, I, like, felt like I was actually able to get rid of it. Yeah, so I'd just done like a breath work when I was in bed. Usually I'd do the breath work for like an hour, and then I would put the tape on. While I would lay in bed with my eyes closed. I was still awake and conscious, but it was like I was viewing myself staring down at myself, and there was an old man standing next to my body. He's got, like a top hat, a trench coat, like a old scarred up face. Like, immediately I just was like, okay, I know, like, what this is. Like, I'm feeling a bit scared at this point. But I also know that, like, no, like, I'm strong enough to deal with this now. Like, a lot has changed, you know, Like, I'm a father now. Like, you've been through so much that this doesn't scare you anymore. You're stronger than this. And at first I Like try and deal with it like how I used to deal with it. Like I was like, get out of here, you're not welcome. And then as I was saying that, it was like gaining power. It was like, like started morphing into like a giant, like stereotypical demon, you know, like big horns, just a monster, like face. I remember it was like got a lot taller. It was like crowding over the top of my body. I had this feeling in my heart that like, that's not the way to deal with it. Like there's something deeper. I started feeling this feeling of like it was sad and it was like it was like a part of me. Like I realized that this thing had been with me for 15 years and it like had become a part of my personality. And then I started to like feel emotional. That like, getting rid of it was like actually saying goodbye to like a big part of my life. And as I was having these thoughts, the entity that was next to me started to like morph into me. And it was like a version of me that was like this kind of like fake bravado, like cool version of myself. And I felt really connected to it and I felt really upset. Like it just felt like it just wanted to be heard and that like I. It didn't want to leave, but it knew that it was time to go. And it was like really emotional. It was weird. It went from fear to like sadness. And it was like facing a part of myself that I knew wasn't needed anymore. And there was like parts of it that I would miss. But I knew that it was not serving me in any way anymore. It had just been dragging me down. So I remember just saying like, oh, it's time for you to go. I'm sorry that I made you feel this way and I let you down. It was like a. It was like saying sorry to myself from when I was depressed and like suicidal and upset. And like I felt like I'd let that part of myself down. I just remember feeling this feeling of releasing it and it was like went from like a sad emotion to all of a sudden like relief and like euphoria that I like finally overcome something. And then I remember just having this feeling of like, this is it, this is permanent. Like this is permanently gone now. You've like, you've done it. And then after that moment, like I've never had anything. Like, this is a. Yeah, first time in my Life, I'm a 30 year old man where I feel like I have control over my own mind from this Entity. So, yeah, it's been a, like, insane part of my life to, like, discover these tapes and discover, like, this meditation. It's been like, six months since then. My daughter, actually, we had the transplant surgery about four months ago now, so about two months after this happened. And, like, of course, that was a really hard time, but we got through it. She's, you know, the transplant was successful. My kidney's working great. She's just, like, become so much stronger and, like. Like, her running around and, like, playing with her, and it's just, like, such a blessing. Like, she's such a sweet girl. It's given me just, like, such a new appreciation of life. It's like I've been given a second chance to live my perfect life. My wife has, you know, just been a rock for me. She's grounded me. I recently just got an even, like, better job lined up in a different city, so we're moving. Just feels like since that moment, everything's just. I've gotten, like, more clarity, and everything's just become. Yeah, way better than given a fresh start. And the same thing for my brother. Like, you know, it's still, like, very raw for him, this whole thing, but he's got himself a son and a wife, and, yeah, our lives has just turned around a lot. And so looking back on the whole thing, I spent years, like, blaming Casey for bringing it into my house and also kind of doubting that Casey had some kind of abilities that would, like, manipulate us into thinking that this was what was happening, but it really wasn't. But to be honest, I only probably spent 12 times even seeing Casey. Obviously, my brother was around her a lot more than that. And I just remember having a really. I was really curious about what led her to be, how she was, like, she was seemed like every day being taken over by some being or communicating with her dead friends or. And then she just left. I never saw her. We never talked to her again. Just out of the blue, just left and then left us with this whole situation to deal with afterwards. And definitely something like, I wouldn't want to track her down and talk to her. Especially just, like, how much it affected my brother and still affects me and him, but obviously, yeah, it was like his first girlfriend. And, like, she. You know, she broke his heart. So it's obviously a lot of pain that happened. Not just a normal heartbreak, but then being left with this evil entity for years, like, it's just something we'd want to leave in the past and just move on from, really. And then I Saw her only one more time. Me and my brother were walking through the shopping center probably three, two years after or three years after, and she was just working in a coffee shop. It was a shock to see her, and it kind of, like, gave me anxiety. I was straight away, like, sweating and heart racing. My brother, as soon as he saw her, I was like, let's go. Let's go. I don't want to talk to her.
- [50:40]
David
I don't want to see her.
- [50:40]
Steven
I don't want her to see me. We only probably saw her for, like, two, three seconds. And just kind of. I'd built this image in my head of her being some kind of, you know, like, witch, I guess, like, from a story. And then after two years and just seeing her working in the coffee shop, she, like, looked a lot more just like an innocent, normal person than I remembered. She was just a person. Wasn't like, this evil image that I built up in my head of her. And, like, I have no ill will towards her. I don't know how much. She probably could have had the same thing we had. This evil entity could have done things to her for years before we had anything to do with it. So I just wish her all the best, and I hope she's doing well. That was the last time I ever saw her.
- [51:24]
David
I saw her once at that coffee shop in the thing. But I just saw her sort of just like, out of the corner of my eye. And then just was instant of this turn around and left. It was like meeting Casey sort of, like, awoke aside just like a spiritual side to both me and Dave. Had sort of been, like, opened. Like, it started out, it was just like a pretty harmless, like, sort of experience at first. But then once things went downhill with me and Casey, and whether it was whether she purposely left something attached to me to cause me grief, or whether she had done something and not known it and left, like, the energy of that around and she wasn't there afterwards to, like, temper that in some sort of way or whatever, and it got out of control. But I definitely think that what happened to us was, like a direct, like, was directly caused by something that she did. Whether it was intentional or whether it was, like, accidental is another question, but I think a lot of it definitely ties in to. Yeah, so it's like. It's not a time in my life that I like. Well, I don't bring it up to other people that I think about it quite a lot still. But it's not something that I sort of like, you know, tell people about very often. It's like it left its effects on, I think, all of us, like all of my friends. And I think it sort of affected us all in different ways and we've all sort of gone on different paths in trying to, like, reconcile what happened. Yeah, my life now is a happy life. Like, I'm. It's a pretty normal life. I'm, you know, happy with my partner. We've got a young kid. And there's still that. Still that thing in the background where, you know, it's still something I think about and still something that doesn't affect my day to day. But if I spend too long thinking about it, it can kind of, you know, set me off on a, you know, pretty downward down. Like, you know, I might have a couple of down days thinking about it every now and then, but for the most part it's, you know, just more now something I look back on and sort of like.
- [53:46]
Linda
I don't know.
- [53:48]
David
I don't know why it still affects me really, like, so negatively. It's just. It's just like, sort of can be a bit unsettling, I guess, to like, think that there's negative entities that can, like, really with you if they want to. I think it was a specific entity. I think it was. I think I, like. I think it was some sort of, like. I mean, you could call it a demon. You could just call it like a, you know, a bad energy or a bad entity or something like that. But that's what I think it was. It's a pretty uneasy, like, thought that there's stuff like that that actually exists. I guess whether it's human itself or if it's something else, like, that's a pretty, you know, unsettling thought. And now it's just more now something I look back on and sort of like, yeah, I don't know what, like, yeah, what happened? Like, what was this thing? Is it ever coming back? Yeah, I don't know.
- [55:09]
Jack Wagner
Thank you to David, Steven and their mom Linda, for talking to me and sharing this story. I know that certain parts of this were not easy to share. I think what struck me most about all of this is how long the saga was. That last section where David finally faced down this thing and hopefully got rid of it was only like six months ago. This started when he was 15. And just now, at the age of 31, he was finally able to face it head on and hopefully get rid of it. And I think Stephen might still be struggling with all of this in his own way. To me, a relatable part of the story is how sometimes somebody could come into your life and do things that leave a massive impact on you for years, even if they're around for just a short period of time. And this is especially true when you're young. A first relationship like Stephen was in with Casey and getting your heart broken for the first time can really leave an impact on you and mess you up for way longer than it should. And I think at a certain point, if you hold on to this stuff for too long, it becomes your problem to deal with, not the person who caused it. Which is, I think, exactly what David ended up realizing. So wherever Casey is, I genuinely hope she's doing a lot better than she was back then. And I hope that Steven and David continue to get better and live happy lives free of whatever this was this episode was called the Granny Flat Part two and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our producers are Theo Schaeffer, Theo Krantz, Haley Pearson and Nikki Kate Delgado. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by North Americans and Juice Jackal. Our artwork is by Cul de Sac Studios. A special thank you in this episode to our friend Thomas Bradley who made the custom artwork for the month. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five star review and telling your friends about the show. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you can become a patron@patreon.com Otherworld Our social media is Otherworldpod. Thank you to the team at Odysee. Leah Rhys, Dennis, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Eric Donnelly, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor and Hilary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odysee app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural or unexplained, you can send us your stories@storiesotherworldpod.com.
- [58:09]
David
Sa.