Otherworld – Episode 149: Saint George
Date: December 15, 2025
Host: Jack Wagner
Guest: John (experience related by both John and his girlfriend, Julia)
Overview
In this episode of Otherworld, host Jack Wagner interviews John, who, alongside his girlfriend Julia, experienced an unsettling and inexplicable series of events while staying at an Airbnb in St. George, Utah. What began as a seemingly typical work trip to open a restaurant turned into an encounter that forced John to question his lifelong skepticism about the existence of ghosts and the paranormal. The story explores the tension between rational explanations and experiences that defy them, childhood memories of seeing unexplainable entities, and the lingering impact of these encounters.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Setting the Scene: The Airbnb Experience
- The Airbnb was a tidy, newly-renovated house in St. George, Utah, with generic, cheerful decor and no outwardly creepy qualities.
- John, Julia, and two work colleagues (Clarissa and Bridget) stayed in the house while setting up a new restaurant location.
- Despite the home’s innocuous appearance, multiple guests felt an unshakeable sense of being watched or not being alone.
Jack Wagner (01:38):
"This is a house that was probably completely renovated for the purpose of being an Airbnb... Creepy is probably not one of them. At least not in a way that would make a group of people... unsettled and paranoid to the point of distraction."
2. John’s Childhood: Early Paranormal Experiences
- John grew up in a religious family where unexplained sightings were brushed off as "seeing angels."
- As a child, John frequently saw shadowy, gray, faceless figures both inside and outside his home.
- Parental dismissals, with refrains like “kids just see angels,” led him to both doubt and be comforted by these experiences, though he gradually lost belief in anything supernatural through adolescence.
John (06:23):
"Like they didn't have a face, but it was just a gray person kind of shifting behind the boxes in our garage. Even as an eight or nine year old kid, I knew that that was there."
John (15:13):
"Once I got into high school, kind of stopped being religious... If I don't believe in God or angels... then what was I seeing as a kid?"
3. The St. George Airbnb – Arrival and Early Unsettling Feelings
- Upon arrival, John and Julia’s sense of unease began with unexplained noises: footsteps on stairs and movement in locked areas.
- Both tried to attribute these to the quirks of an old house and initial anxiety about being in an unfamiliar setting.
- Julia felt especially paranoid when alone, often checking all rooms and closets, convinced someone else might be in the house.
John (20:06):
"Yeah, after you exit the kitchen, those stairs going up are going to be off to your left... You could tell it had the Airbnb remodel treatment... but it definitely felt old."
4. Peak Encounter: The Apparition on the Stairs
- On the third day, John saw a full-bodied apparition of a young boy, about 10 years old, in old-fashioned overalls and a bowl haircut, standing silently on the stairs.
- The boy had no discernible skin tone or texture—he seemed grayish, translucent. John and the boy locked eyes, and both appeared equally frightened.
- The boy moved unsteadily up the stairs, eventually fading away into sunlight as if it "erased him."
John (24:09):
"I just lock eyes with just this little boy on the stairs. My stomach dropped immediately and I... could not breathe. And he's just standing there staring right at me. And he looks terrified."
John (29:09):
"As soon as he got into the sunlight of that window, he just kind of was gone. Like, almost like the light... erased him."
5. Immediate Aftermath and Sharing the Story
- John was so shaken, he fled the house and sat on the curb, processing the event and wrestling with disbelief.
- He realized that if what he saw was real, then so were his childhood experiences—and perhaps more.
- Out of concern for Julia (and perhaps self-preservation), he refrained from telling her immediately.
John (31:10):
"If I have to accept that that's real, then what else is real?... I have to finish my hair, and I got to do all this with a little boy in the house, a little ghost boy..."
John (33:05):
"I just yelled out, I'm coming in, everything's fine, don't run."
- At work, his demeanor prompted their manager to jokingly ask if he’d seen a ghost—comedic timing given the situation.
6. Julia and Clarissa’s Experiences & Group Discussions
- Julia later confessed that she repeatedly sensed another presence in the house, to the point of being frightened enough to leave until someone else returned.
- After returning home, John and Julia began researching the house. The building, constructed in 1949, was near historically significant sites, and they speculated whether these could relate to the apparition.
- When they finally asked Clarissa about the house, she immediately affirmed she’d felt it was haunted and recounted also hearing unexplained movement upstairs.
John (40:09):
"She froze and her eyes got huge, and she just immediately starts nodding and she goes, yes, absolutely."
7. Connecting Past and Present – John’s Changing Worldview
- Julia noted the similarity between the boy John saw in Utah and the “figures” he saw in his childhood, urging him to consider that he might be sensitive to paranormal phenomena.
- Though resistant, John began to reconsider his wholly rational, dismissive stance toward the unexplainable.
John (43:40):
"Now, like, since this has happened, I'm still trying to rationalize that any of this could be possible... I live half of my life staunchly believing that the ghosts are not real... and now here I am at 35 trying to... accept that there might not be [a rational explanation]."
8. Host’s Reflections & Local History
- Jack Wagner comments on how unusual it is to receive accounts of such vivid, full-bodied apparitions—most experiences are less concrete.
- He reflects on the challenges children must face when adults dismiss their experiences as angelic or imaginary.
- Jack shares that, while he found no history of the home itself, the town of St. George had a tragic history of nuclear fallout, leading to widespread illness and death from the 1950s–80s.
Jack Wagner (51:37):
"...this town in Utah where they were staying apparently received the most amount of nuclear fallout from the above ground testing... this caused a massive wave of cancer in the town's population... I'm not sure if this has anything to do with what John saw, but I did think all of that was very striking."
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On seeing the ghost:
"We didn't break eye contact for like three seconds... he looked terrified. I imagine I probably looked terrified, but he was just standing there."
— John (24:12) -
On the experience’s impact:
"He really kind of shook things up for me. Like my worldview is a lot fuller now after this happened because now I do leave room for things that can't be explained."
— John (47:18) -
On childhood rationalizations:
"It's not a big deal. You're just seeing angels... I just remember even then thinking that was, you know, that was bullshit. But I felt like it was very dismissive."
— John (06:23) -
On group validation:
"She froze and her eyes got huge, and she just immediately starts nodding and she goes, yes, absolutely."
— John (40:09)
Important Timestamps
- 01:38 – Jack sets up the premise and describes the Airbnb
- 04:47 – 15:13 – John recalls childhood experiences and his parents’ explanations
- 20:06 – 24:09 – Arrival in St. George, the Airbnb layout, and the first strange happenings
- 24:09 – 29:18 – John’s vivid encounter with the apparition on the stairs
- 29:09 – 33:05 – Processing the event, not telling Julia immediately
- 40:09 – Clarissa confirms she too felt a presence in the house
- 43:40 – 47:18 – John’s reflections on belief and meaning
- 51:37 – Jack discusses local history and reflects on the rarity of such experiences
Conclusion
Saint George stands out as a rich, introspective account of a life-changing paranormal encounter. The episode weaves together individual experience, group validation, childhood memories, and the local history of St. George, Utah. John’s story is notable for the detail and emotional honesty with which he revisits both his disbelief and the shattering of that certainty. It’s a classic ghost story but told with a modern skepticism—and without easy answers.