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- [01:12]
D
Welcome to Other World. I'm your host Jack Wagner. This is part three of the Stalker Series. If you haven't heard the first two episodes, go back and start from there. In the last part, we left off with Clara returning from her shoot in Manitoba, during which she realized that her stalker had somehow hacked into her email and then gained full access to all of her social media and accounts. Because of this, he began referencing obscure information about her in the barrage of messages he was sending her way. That is something that really creeped me out, the concept of somebody knowing personal things about you that you might have even forgotten. Not only that, during her shoot, she realized that this guy had apparently flown to Manitoba and was likely following her. Luckily, she had an entire film crew with her, and even though we aren't sure where he was or what he was doing during that time, he never made his presence known. The concept of knowing that a person is out there coming after you is terrifying in a way that probably can't be fully understood unless you've lived through it yourself. I imagine every moment of peace when you manage to forget about it for a few seconds is followed by a rush of panic as you remember and then realize that you've momentarily let your guard down. Not only that, it's a very helpless feeling when you go through something so unusual that you know there is nobody out there who can help you or even really understand what exactly you're going through. Clara was experiencing all of that on top of the very real threat of the stalker, the supernatural right rationale motivating it, and the barrage of mysterious people contacting her that were most likely the stalker himself, using fake profiles and numbers in hopes of getting her attention. In this episode, things continue to get worse, but luckily, Clara received some help from very unlikely sources. This episode is called the Stalker Part three, and you're listening to Otherworld.
- [03:41]
B
Hello, is this Bobby?
- [03:43]
D
Yes, it is, at its core, the
- [03:44]
B
science you can't argue with. I'm worried about all of a sudden, up in the sky.
- [03:49]
D
It's almost frustrating that it's happening.
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E
I'm literally.
- [03:51]
D
I'm gonna die.
- [03:53]
B
His limbs were just, like, wrong. Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them a. When I got back from Manitoba is when it started getting really intense. I remember I actually. I left in the forest for a week after the shoot because I just needed to take a break, and I didn't have any reception at that cabin where I was at. But every time I would leave the cabin to do the groceries or to go muscle fishing or whatever, my phone would start buzzing really intensely. And then I would get, like, a bunch of emails, missed calls, text from a bunch of different numbers. Either the stalker's friends saying that they were looking for him or his family. Sometimes there were just, like, random French numbers that I don't know who it was, but my phone was buzzing at that. In. In that period of time, which lasted maybe, like, two months, I think. Every day I would get contacted by someone.
- [05:24]
D
Do they seem like real people, or was it maybe him running these accounts? Like, do you. Do you think that they're actual relatives?
- [05:33]
B
I suspect that it was him for most of the. For most or all of the accounts, because they had. There were very, very small profiles with, like, you know, few pictures, few friends. I do think one person was real because he had, like, a more substantial account, and that's his friend who said, like, oh, I'm worried about my friend. He kind of disappeared the face of the earth. I believe that he thinks he's married to you, but I don't know if it's the case. So that message, just because it was a little bit more rational and, you know, you could see in the. In the message that there was doubt. He did congratulate us on our marriage, but he did say, like, is it true? So that one I had little bit, and I'm just like, your friend is not okay. Just, like, get him back into France. Like, I'm terrorized. Like, he's I have a restraining order against him and he's like stalking me to no ends and I feel unsafe, so please help me. But it just. I started fearing my phone. I started fearing every time I would get a call I would just like kind of panic and my energy would just kind of darken and. And you could see that my mood was getting impacted every time that this toy that we call our phones that are, you know, necessary to work, like, it became kind of my kryptonite where I just, I couldn't look at it and I couldn't process anything that went through it. So I finished the trip and I think it might have even been on the way back from the trip that my brother texted me and he said, okay, we got like a really big package in the mail and he sent me a photo of this really thick manuscript. As soon as I got back home, I started getting like handwritten letters that were increasingly chaotic. Like, he started writing vertically on pieces of paper and you know, they weren't making sense anymore on like, with like, you know, pink ink on like post its and so on. And he would just kind of like send me like delivery packages full of post it notes of like, descriptions of our, of our sexual interactions and our tantric love. And I didn't read. I would really just read diagonally. I wanted to like, find proof that he said, like, I'm back in France. So I just, like, I would just kind of just skim through it and see if there's any information that could like prove that I would that was out of harm. And it, it didn't happen for a really long time. I think for like, even when I came back from Manitoba, I think for like a month and a half, I was just always looking out the window. I was really scared. And I became friends with the police, like with the people working at the police station, because I would so often go there with like new pieces of mail and new pieces of information and showing them, like, this guy is breaking his restraining order. Can you please send him back to his country? And I think they tried to look for him, but he was really hard to find. Like he had stopped using his credit card. I don't know. He was literally a man on the loose. He kept on sending me trinkets and, you know, gems. And there's one that really terrified me where he. It was a picture of some sort of saint woman with dead eyes. And on the back of the picture it said, look how much it looks like you. At first I brought them to the Police station. But there were so many of them that eventually the cops just told me to keep them at my house for evidence. And, you know, if the case was gonna go any further, then they'd ask for all of them at once. And I just kind of stashed them in a drawer and never thought about them anymore. I think over the course of this whole ordeal, I must have gotten at least 300 pages, most of them handwritten, some of them typed. And the information overall was that we had been married for several lifetimes. I think more than a dozen lifetimes, and that we absolutely needed to be married in this one. Because I had a mission, a really, really big mission. Something about saving humanity. And that his own mission was to support me through it. But the thing is that he kept saying that I didn't understand and that he would explain it to me, but I didn't understand yet. I was the chosen one, but I didn't get it. I needed to hear him out, and he would explain to me everything. He used the word love profusely. He said that he was madly in love with me. Of course, he kept saying the word twin flames a lot, which, you know, rang bells in my head. He also sent me a lot of articles that were referencing to writings from other people. So at that moment, I started thinking that maybe he was associated with a cult or a sect who believed in twin flames. He also threw a lot of names around. Like Fia Gaia, I think, was a big one as well. Theresa. He loved the word Theresa. I think there's a real life person called Theresa that he was also obsessed with, but in the bad terms. I think he believed that there was a Theresa that was the devil that lived in our world. But he also talked a lot about the Saint Theresa, which is another. A dead woman saint who he thought I looked a lot like. At one point, he sent me, I think, a manuscript that was 115 pages, you know, with, like, postcards and, you know, pictures of Jesus and then pictures of, like, dead saints. He also talked a lot about trees and about how trees talk. And there was one tree that he had a big connection with. And he called that tree Alinadon. And he referred to Alinadon a lot in his letters, saying that it was a tree that communicated messages from high up and to him. But what got really scary is that he also said that he loves me way too much to hurt me, but that he's not in control of himself anymore. He's now working for his higher self, and he was gonna obey to that entity, no matter what. And that made me think that he would be able to hurt me if that higher self told him so. It's such a shame that being someone that's like, on a daily basis pretty fearless and very, very open and very curious how much I changed in that year and how much I switched completely into like a scared little rabbit. Wasn't frightened by him because I knew I could break his bones if I wanted to. Like, I'm not violent, but he was just. He looks like such a little boy that I'm just like, oh, you know, worst case, I just like, you know, kick him in the crotch and I can just, like, run away. It wasn't the scariness of the violence. I think it was just very much the insanity of it and the fact that he was talking about so much. He was talking so much about the intangible. And, you know, like, that does feel with someone's mind when they know your, you know, your favorite desserts, they know your favorite song, they know everything about it. It's violence. It's like. It's an identity theft. He was trying to not still be me, but he was trying to marry an alter ego of me who looked like, thank God AI wasn't real back then because he could have just like, fed that into AI and just had like a version of me talk to him and make sweet love to him. You know, it's just now I just realized that thank God it was like, you know, three years ago and not now. Yeah, yeah. Like, it was. It was psychological violence a lot more than physical violence. That being said, my. It was very physical. Like, the crazy thing that I remember is that I would wake up every night at like, 2:11, I think, feeling that someone was watching me. And it was just. It was strange. I was always, like, precisely at that. I mean, I slept terribly. Sometimes I would just, you know, like, fall asleep at 2 and then at 11 minutes later I would just like, wake up and felt like a gaze onto me. And it's kind of. I felt watched and was on the side of my bed, but it was really high up, like higher than a being would be. And it was kind of. It wasn't because I, you know, I. I was fully aware. I would look at the clock. It was always the same time. And I would feel crushed, but it wasn't, you know, I could get out, I could get up, I could go to the bathroom. And I often did in order to kind of shake the feeling off of me. This presence would keep coming back and it was just. It would just watch me. It wasn't, you know, active at all. It was kind of just dark. And it was kind of like as though I was an infant. And it was like an adult looking at me, making sure I was asleep. And that presence in my bedroom was really high. It was invisible. Like, I could see my whole bedroom, but it just still felt like, you know, just someone watching you. It's. It's kind of like when you feel like someone's thinking about you and it's, you know, like it's this mass. But it wasn't moving around. It was very still. And that went on for many months. Sorry. It's. It's like I had a shadow. I had a second shadow. I didn't have any more energy. I felt so tired all the time. Not only from the lack of sleep, but I felt like I was being preyed on. I don't know figuratively or concretely. I was haunted. I was being haunted by someone, and I don't even know if it was him necessarily. Like, I didn't feel like it was his presence. It was something very vicious, and it was stealing away my personality. It was stealing away my joy of living and everything that came with it. So at this point, everything takes another big turn for me. Well, when I thought that things couldn't get weirder, I got one very, very strange email from a man named Mark. He introduced himself as a detective. It's kind of like an esoteric detective. And the subject line was, like, on a manhunt for psychopath Michael. This man who introduced himself as a writer, detective, and YouTuber who said he was looking for this stalker guy, and he believed that I had been contacted by him.
- [18:35]
D
Wait, is this. Is this a real. Is this a real detective?
- [18:40]
B
I don't. I. It's not a real detective. It's like this.
- [18:45]
D
He's a.
- [18:46]
B
You. He's like a detective slash YouTuber. Yeah, he. I did look up this Mark guy. It was pretty easy to find information about him. He's written books. He has his own YouTube channel. He has this, I think, spiritual school where he gives teachings to people who are willing to pay for it. But the first time he talked to me, he introduced himself as a detective. He explained that him and his task force were collaborating on WhatsApp to find this guy before he committed too much damage. And so that's kind of like when. That's when I realized that it might be bigger than just, you know, me and this one random stranger, and that there was, like, this whole universe Attached to him. Mark, I couldn't even tell you what age he is. He's kind of, you know, those. He's French, which definitely, like, the French gene sometimes has, like, this weird twist glitch where you have no idea how old people are. He looked, you know, anywhere between 35 and 60, very white teeth, very direct eyes. And through the few videos that I saw, which were, you know, most of them were well over an hour long of him speaking about aliens and meeting angels and spiritual enlightenment, the red flags were just waving all over. I just. I saw this person. I'm just like, this is. This is getting into, like, this is a battleground of spirituality, and I really want out. Like, how? Where is the exit door? But at the same time, he did seem very reassuring in the way that he, like, he's like, don't worry. We'll get him. And don't you worry. We'll protect you. We'll make sure nothing ever happens to you. And I think one of the first things also, he said, you know, we'll protect you. We'll help get justice for all of what he's done. And by the way, this is my girlfriend. And he just, like, sends me a photo of this woman smiling, and I'm like, awesome. At that point, I didn't know if I was, you know, getting entangled with someone even weirder than the stalker or if this was someone who was actually there to help me. And that's why I was, like, very, very cold right off the bat with this person where I'm just like, I don't want to invite anyone weirder into this situation. He did seem well versed in the stalker's writings, and he said that through the stalker's writings, he had discovered that he had an obsession about me. I don't know what he thought of this obsession or, like, how he perceived me, but I think it was more of a personal vendetta than valiant desire to help a lady in distress. He was getting a restraining order against this guy as well, and so he's just like, oh, I. We're working on the restraining order. He really asked me to talk to this police officer, and he said he really needed to get my physical address in order to legitimize my complaints. But I didn't put in a complaint at all. I just. I wanted nothing to do with this. But he did ask me for my physical address quite a few times.
- [22:29]
D
Yeah. Was that a real police officer or an esoteric police officer?
- [22:34]
B
I don't know. It's in the conversation you can see it. I think the name of the police officer is Garcia. Yeah, he asked me for my, my mailing address and my physical address and my phone number. And so, yeah, so I stayed really distant to the whole thing. I basically told him, like, yeah, I know this person and I just get him out of my life. Like, I'm terrorized and I don't want to deal with this anymore. And I was glad that Mark and his friends had a handle on the situation and they seemed very, very adamant about getting their hands on this stalker and bringing him to justice. They were basically like, from what I understood, they were just trying to build the case and have as many testimonies as possible in order to lock him up for as long as possible. So I was pretty relieved. Even though I didn't want to get involved and I did not put in a testimony, I was really relieved that some people were annoyed enough to do something about it.
- [23:53]
D
All right, we'll be right back after this quick break.
- [24:08]
F
This episode is brought to you by Prime Obsession is in session. And this summer, prime originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories. And the book to screen favorites you've already read twice off campus. Elle every year after the love Hypothesis, Sterling Point and more. Slow burns, second chances chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime.
- [24:37]
E
Focus Features in Blumhouse present Obsession.
- [24:40]
B
When I have a crush on a guy no one knows.
- [24:43]
E
Be careful.
- [24:45]
D
I wish Nikki loved me more than anyone in the entire world.
- [24:47]
E
Who you wish for? Obsession is 96% fresh on rotten Tomatoes.
- [24:53]
B
I love you so, so, so, so much.
- [24:56]
E
It's blood soaked nightmare fuel.
- [24:58]
D
What kind of spills you put on her?
- [25:00]
E
You have been warned. Obsession. Rated R under 17. Animated without parent. Only in theaters May 15 with special engagements in Dolby Girl.
- [25:08]
A
Winter is so last season and now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is FE cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio Sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done. Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic.
- [25:39]
G
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- [26:19]
B
Through. Talking with Mark, I realized that him and the stalker had beef that went even further than the event with me. And so that he had been harassing people or he had been threatening at least one person before me. And at one point I even got the information that there was a court hearing and that Michael had been sentenced for death threats sent to Mark. And what I thought was really, really strange is that because Mark kept a log on his Facebook account of the court hearing. What he wrote was that the stalker had been deemed sane by a psychiatrist, that he didn't have any apparent mental health issues, which just. It was kind of like the. Well, if he's not mentally insane, what is going on? Like the talking to trees and so on. Maybe he was just really good at hiding his mental state, but I usually psychiatrists are formed to see through that. So what happened? I don't know. It was really personal between him and the stalker. Like he worked a lot on tracking down that person. At that point, I knew that there was a squad working to track down the psychopath is how he or I reread the email and in one of the emails it says the maladmontal, which the sick in the head. So it was kind of. I think one of the first emails I got from, from this investigator was that he was tracking a sick in the head psychopath just to tell you how much he respected that man. And anyway, so I like, you know, he kept on updating me on his mission and that he wanted to get him before the cops did. And at one point he told me that all of the victims of this person were now officially under his protection and his team's protection. So I didn't have to worry. It didn't necessarily make me feel better, but at least I knew that someone was taking him very seriously.
- [28:53]
H
So this is when the story that I thought I understood started to make an abrupt turn. First of all, as much as I'm amused by the idea of an esoteric detective, I couldn't stop wondering who this guy is and whether him and the stalker may have been part of some group together in the past or maybe even currently. And if not, why was Mark and apparently many other people on the hunt for this guy? The other big piece of news is that it seems that the stalker had returned to France, which is great for Clara because he is banned from re entering Canada. And additionally, the so called esoteric detective Mark said that at some point there was a court case in France wherein the stalker was deemed legally sane by a court psychiatrist. That was the most confusing part to me and very concerning if true. But then again, at this point, Clara had no idea if any of this was true or whether Mark and this task force were actually another attempt by the stalker to trick her in some way similar to the many fake accounts and Personas in the past. Either way, things were only getting worse. Many, many months have passed at this point and Clara desperately wanted it all
- [30:18]
D
to be over,
- [30:25]
B
Feeling that at one point one of them was the student of another. I don't know if it's like which way it went, but they definitely had a falling out and now it was a total war situation. And, and my friend just got a bunch of quotes out of Mark's Facebook profile where the stalker would send death threats on my behalf to him and to his squad of friends. Or at least he did send them to. I don't know how many people got death threats from me, but the death threats were along the line of he always introduced me as his wife when he sent the threats and he's like, oh, my wife Clara, she knows Wicca witches which are going to suck your blood or something like that. I don't know what Wicca. It's W I C C A. I have no idea what that is. But he said a lot of horrible things to. I don't know who exactly, but the threats were very, very appalling and I can't believe that, you know, I was part of them.
- [31:37]
D
Wait, there's people in France that are being threatened by you via the stalker?
- [31:43]
B
I don't even know if it's just in France, but I've. Yeah, at that moment, at that point in time, I realized that I probably had a bunch of enemies all over the world because this madman was just sending death threats on my behalf, saying that I was witch and saying that I wanted to say suck on people's blood and like things that it wasn't just on my behalf, but he would send threats that were very, very serious. If you let me pull up a few. Okay, here he says, like, I will ruin your life if you don't kill yourself or I have an intelligent plan and you will never see the attacks. I will kill you with my own hands and we have a deal with Satan to kill you. And Clara, My, my wife has contacts. Sorry, I, I'm not part of the Witches, thank God. But Clara has contacts with the Wicca witches who are going to kidnap you and perform a swell blood ritual. They will even drink your blood. You cannot escape. I know everything about your life. So this is, this is the kind of stuff that I guess he would send to other people. I don't know. He did seem to have a lot of enemies. So this is just one person who was very into documenting all of these death threats. I don't know how many were sent out. I don't know how many I was involved with, but I probably have a lot of enemies.
- [33:18]
D
Were there any other patterns of things he was like, saying to people or to you about, like.
- [33:24]
B
Yeah, yeah. There was one character, he was calling her Satan. He was calling her the devil quite a lot in the texts that he would send me, the manuscripts that he would hand write me pretty often. Apparently. I might not get the story straight, but apparently this woman and her mother had been heavily stalked by Michael. What I read on Mark's Facebook is that he claimed that she stole a film from him and he was very upset about it and that's when he started calling her Satan and all of these very, very vile things. Having a stalker definitely alienated me from my life, my social life. It's not that I was scared to talk about it. I didn't advertise it either. Just people knew that there was something wrong with me or I just, my behavior was drastically different from usual. My friend told me that I didn't have any more lights in my eyes. Like I had just very, very large pupils all the time. And I was just, I had even like a problem with my skin, like acne and so on. It was just like my whole body changed. Like I was really, really wasting away. You know, I, I would never mention his name, but I did mention that I had, there was this person stalking me. I, I couldn't dare utter his name. I, I, I wouldn't, I, he was really just, I would refer him as the stalker. I'm just like, oh yeah. Like he's just got like another male from the stalker who's just, you know, like he started predicting my death at one point where he's just like, oh, you know, our, our death is imminent and we're both going to arise into a different plane of reality to pursue our mission there. And, you know, like started being really into death and about us dying anyway. It was really scary. And the unfortunate thing about it is that, you know, like, people lack the tools to understand what you're going through from an outside perspective, you're just like, someone getting a lot of attention, which isn't that dramatic or bad, or you just, you know, like, it's easy to say, oh, just ignore them. And. But when you have to go, like, you go to your own parents and you're just like, my life is being sold, stolen away from me and I don't know what to do. And I feel like I feel in great danger. And they kind of just laughed it off. They're just like, oh, Clara, you're so adventurous. Like, you always have all of these funny stories for us. And I'm just like, no, like, mom, dad, like, I'm. Can I move in with you? Like, I just. I'm just scared. And they would kind of. Yeah, they. They didn't understand the gravity of the situation. And it's really unfortunate for, like, even at 30 years old, to go to your parents and say, like, I need help. Like, I'm. I'm in danger. And your parents are just like, ah, yeah, just come for dinner and we'll talk about it at the same time. No one can do anything about it. There's just like, you know, even the police had trouble getting to him. He was just this missing person on the run. People, everyone. All of the social conversations I had, I felt attacked by. I remember at one point I was walking in the street and I saw, like, a very good friend of mine at the street corner. And I just, like, I hid and I changed streets. And just because I just couldn't handle talking to someone that I loved very deeply, just I changed. I was like, you know, a little gremlin. Like, my fist. I would always walk with my fist clenched. And my senses. That's the worst part is that my senses started to recede. Music sounded like noise, and food stopped tasting like anything. It's like I was constantly sick. I think, like, all my senses receded to maybe 25% of their capacity. I still, you know, if I put a perfume bottle up to my nose, I could. I remember, like, putting a perfume ball up to my nose and trying to stick. Smell it. And I knew that it had a smell, but it was so. It was so subtle. Sometimes it seemed like he knew this was happening. I do remember him talking about. About me wearing dark clothes, being like, oh, like, you look like Goddess Shiva. That's why you wear black or something. That I'm just like, how do you know? How do you know what I'm wearing? You're far away. And all of my stuff is now, like, triply protected. But he just, yeah, there was some stuff he really did know. And most of the time when I would start, when I had like flare ups and I would like talk to someone about this experience, he would message me. So I really felt like, you know, I couldn't even speak freely in my daily life because it's just like, again, it can all be coincidences. It can all. I don't know what is true and what is imagination. That's also at that point I like stopped. I stopped even believing in myself, in my conception of reality because I was in the middle of such a kooky story that I'm just like, it must be a dream. Must be like your weird dream. I'm gonna wake up eventually and. And it's all gonna go away. It's the invisible. You feel completely trapped. You're like in this prison cell of fear and a fear that you can't see, you can't watch. You just feel the weight of something that's following you. You feel that shadow that is just constantly trying to catch up to you. And it was dragging me down. I knew that it had to start and I knew I had to do something about it. And so in the past, I had gone to these two healers who had healed me quite efficiently. I remember the first time I went to see them, you know, I had like a sore hand and I remember they had just did something in my opposite shoulder and all of a sudden my hand was fine. And so they really kind of understand the body map. They always work as a pair. One of them is a reflexologist, so he works with the feet and he kind of directs the other one who works with the rest of the body. And he's just like, oh, yeah, it's in the, you know, it's in the liver. And then the other person goes and work in the liver, even though you're complaining about, you know, earache. But they're very efficient and they're really good at what they do. I thought maybe they could help with my stress. So I went to see them. You know, they're very like. They're a gay couple, 68, 74 years old, and it's always Christmas at their house. And they have like these erotic paintings of Santa Claus all over their house. And that's where they treat people. So, like, people come in and there's like, you know, like Santa Claus that's like flexing on the wall opposite from you. So it's a trip. And they're also in their own universe, but they vary, even though they really don't market themselves as that. They are energy healers and they perceive things that other doctors don't. Mind you, they're a three hour drive away from where I live, so it is quite an adventure. But I did go to them. I had known them beforehand. Like I had gone a few times to get treated by them. I even went to have dinner at their house a few times. So they knew me a little bit. And as soon as I entered the house, I could see in their eyes like, oh, like, who is this? They recognized me, but they were a little bit frazzled by the way I had entered their house. And right away they didn't even ask me questions. They didn't know why I was there. But they asked me to sit down and they looked at my hands and they asked me to open my left hand and they started putting things in my hand one at a time. Mostly gems, like crystals, different types of semi precious gems. And on this one specific gem, I wish I could remember what it was, but I think it was like a pale green gem. They put it in my hand and then they're like, oh, like what's going on? And they're like, oh, that's it. And they kind of like they had together. They have their own understanding and they don't really communicate what's going on to their patients. But they had like unlocked something. And they look at me and they're like, are you haunted by a spirit? I'm like, I don't think so. And they're like, yeah, like there's someone sucking your energy at night. I hadn't told them anything. Like this was 15 minutes in, I was sitting down on a chair holding a rock and they're accusing me of being haunted by an entity who was sucking my energy at night. And I didn't know where they got that information from, but they pointed at the rock inside my hand and they asked me, you know, very seriously and like, are you being haunted? And it's a really strange question. I didn't really know what to answer to that because I didn't think so. But at the same time I just started making the linking all of the events in my head of, you know, me waking up in the middle of the night and feeling this entity watch me sleep. And I did tell them at that point I'm just like, yeah, well I did have a really unpleasant experience with stalker and I've been pretty scared for the past few months. So I've had like a really hard time to sleep. And they weren't happy with the answer. They're like. They point at the rock inside my hand and they're like, did this person give you anything? And I'm like, well, yeah, of course. Like, lots of trinkets. And I keep most of them at home because their evidence, the police asked me to keep all of the evidence. So it's like, you know, in a drawer in my bedroom. And they're like, oh, no. What? You really have to get rid of everything that this person gave you. You. Because, like, these objects are cursed. And, you know, whether or not you want to believe in curse objects, I. I didn't pursue. I didn't specifically believe in curses, or even now I do think that there's, like, a lot of psychological turmoil involved in curses and that you can, like, create your own curses by being scared of objects. That being said, like, the, you know, they spent, I think, three hours extracting this person from my aura. They didn't call him a person. They really did. They called him an evil presence. And they kind of had, like, this exorcism, I guess, where they liberated me from this energy that was kind of latching onto me. It involved one of them rolling some sort of crystal on my feet while the other one worked on certain points in my body. They were talking a lot about archangels. I'm not exactly sure what they did, but it lasted a few hours. And then they're like, yeah, okay, you're good. Like, you should. You should be fine. Go back home. But really do get rid of those objects. Otherwise we won't be able to keep you safe. And so I did. I went back home. I gathered all of the objects that this person had given me. I don't think I even dared to touch them. I was, like, so scared. I think I used gloves, and I just, like, went through all my drawers, and I put everything in a box. And one of the last things I found at the bottom of the jar was the exact same rock, like that pale green rock that it had put inside my hand. I had found the exact same thing. And he had given me that rock. And I'm like, holy. I was so frazzled. I'm like, how did they just, like, flash on this one rock that I find in my house, in my drawer that coincidentally, like, this stalker guy gave me. So I have this box with the semi precious gem in it, and you know about probably 500 pages of poems and predictions. I just. I want to get it as far away from me as possible, but I do have to keep this stuff for evidence. Anyway, so I have this. I need to get rid of it. I don't know where to go. And I'm like, oh, I'll just like, I'll drop it off at my Dad's, who lives 10 minutes away. So I walk over to my dad's with the package. I stash it somewhere far away in his office room. I don't really tell him that the objects are cursed. And so I drop off the package at my dad's. I'm walking back home. I feel like this great wave of victory wash over me. I'm just like, oh, I think this was the right thing to do. And I felt immediately better. And you know, like there's, there's the sun beaming. I just feel I can smell things again and so on. And I just, I feel really happy. And at that moment, my phone buzzes. This was maybe four minutes after I had left my dad's place. And I see that it's Michael who messaged me. And I read the message and it says, it's okay, I get it. I'll leave you alone until you realize that I'm the love of your life. That's it. Just those two lines. The chills that I got reading this message, having just gotten rid of his so called cursed objects. Like, you know, within that exact moment, I'm like, It's just I. I felt terrified. Like he, he knew he was, he is responding to a direct action that I just did that very same day, didn't, you know, and had. That had nothing to do with conversations. I didn't call anyone about it. I just, I had just gone back from the, the healers. First thing I did, coming into the house, as I packed up all the stuff, left it at my dad's. And right when I got rid of him or his influence, I guess he messages me being like, okay, message received. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? Like, where is this guy? Like, stop watching me. I don't know. But yeah, it was. I still can't explain what happened. I still can't explain. It's like he was almost. The way that he wrote it, it was in French, but it's as though he was almost amused by the fact that he could just tell me. Like, I know every single thing that you do any single day, and I know that you just got rid of my gifts. Yeah, I, that was the last I ever heard from him. Even though it was kind of like his final reverence. But it was creepy in a way that he said, like he insinuated that he knew what I was doing at that very moment, that I had just gotten rid of his gifts and maybe gotten rid of him as well, or whatever that entity was, and that he was okay with it. And I think it was, in a sense, a way for him to get control over the situation one last time before bailing out. And he never messaged me after that or never contacted me after that. I don't know how much the healers had to do in it. I don't know if after that they had, like, actually set a veil of protection around me. But I did retrieve all of my senses pretty drastically fast. I think in the week that followed, I just, like, started listening to music again, and food tasted so good. And it could all very well be psychological. I mean, at that point, I just. I felt very light. I felt like I had my energy, that I owned my energy. And I didn't have any more troubles sleeping and haven't had trouble sleeping ever since. So, I mean, probably part of it was psychological. That being said, like, whether or not something is true or, you know, whether or not ghosts are true, if they have an impact on you and you have real scars or real behaviors start emerging from an experience like that, it does make it true whether or not the initial thing was sparked by something transparent or not. But the one thing I still can't explain is that one last message that was sent in direct response to me getting rid of the things you had given me. Also, even stranger is that after that, I healed really fast and retrieved all my senses, retrieved my. My sleeping schedule got back to normal. I didn't wake up at two in the morning every day, and I've been good ever since. But now that I think about it, my dad just went through an immense depression lately, and depression that lasted, like, a pretty long time that kind of started around the same time where I dropped off the package at his house. So, like, we're having this conversation and I'm just kind of making a mental note to myself to get those objects out of his house to, you know, if there's any of it that's influencing his mood, which might very well be the case. I think this is the time I'm, like, ready to destroy those objects altogether. After that last message I got from Michael, Mark didn't contact me again. And so from then on, life kind of I just retrieved my usual life, my usual personality, Even though I'm still a lot more wary than before about, you know, talking to strangers. And my online presence has never really resumed ever Since. Because I've just always felt scared that someone I didn't want would, you know, look at what I was doing and either judge me or just stalk me. It's just like that feeling of being stalked never really leaves once you realize that people can watch you from afar. And the fact that even before the stalker had decided to contact me, he had been investigating my life for quite a long time. Even though things were good, you know, every time I would post about film screening or every time I would have to go to a Q and A to talk about one of my films, I would feel a great amount of fear in thinking that he might still be in the room and that he might still be able to track me down. And I do even remember at one point, I had to fly to France to pitch a new project idea. And, you know, it is made public, and it is a big festival, so my name was on that programming pamphlet. And I remember just, like, landing in France and automatically, like, I felt so sick, and I couldn't. Like, I got to the hotel room at the festival, and I think for six days I did not get out of the hotel room. I was so sick, I couldn't get out of bed. I had, like, shivers and cold sweats, and I was just, like, sleeping probably 22 hours a day. Instead of pitching my film, instead of participating in this beautiful, amazing festival full of filmmakers. I think it was definitely psychological at that point where I was so scared of crossing his path or thinking that he might have seen my name and that he could be in one of those rooms where I pitched the film that I just. My body just completely shut down. I felt very dirty for very long, like, as though I was. Like, my hands were spoiled with curses because I did hold those objects in my hands at one point or another. I think the worst part were the words, because the words, I can't get rid of them. I can't just put the words in my dad's office and come back and, you know, wipe my hands clean. Like, those words are still in my head. Especially that last message. It was kind of almost evil to say, like, all right, I know that you want to get rid of me. I'll leave. Which is just. It's like a mind. Because after that, I. I just felt washed all the time. And I. I just. I don't know if he's in jail. I don't know if he's in France. I don't know if he's joined the cult. I. I don't know anything. There's Just so many things that are unexplained, and there's so many. There are. I have questions. There's a lot of questions that it's just because they're unanswered. I feel like I lack closure on this whole experience. And I feel like it's not over because the final countdown hasn't happened yet. Even though he told me that he was gonna leave me alone. And so, yeah, it's kind of like this shadow that's been behind me at all times and especially online. It's such a strange story. It is a stranger than fiction story, like, truly. And it's also strange because, you know, I've had resentment towards spirituality because of it, because so many characters in this story were enslaved by their own spirituality. That being said, I was also healed by very spiritual people. And so in this whole spiritual war, I do feel like I can't deny the fact that there was a lot of transparent forces involved in this story. And so I can't, unfortunately, close the door on esoterism and spirituality as a whole. I just think I saw the extreme ugly side and the extremely beautiful side of the planes of reality that we can't necessarily perceive with our senses. Yeah. So even. Even if I feel like the story has been resolved, I just have. I have some questions that are still kind of, you know, burning at my fingertips, and I don't think I'm strong enough to research it. It's just, you know, seems like a black hole, and I don't want to fall back into it. And so I guess that's why I'm coming to you. I just. I couldn't. I can't even say his name. I'm. You know, for me, he's the. He's the stalker, and he's. I've. I don't think I revealed his name to many people because I feel like just saying his name would make him more real. I think that's also why there's so many questions that are unanswered and there's just a mess at my fingertips, but I can't go there. Yeah, some of the questions I have are, well, ultimately, is he in a cult? Is someone feeding him information or telling him to do these highly irrational actions, or is he on his own? Also, who is this esoteric detective that contacted me and that kept on contacting me and who had, like, this cause really in his heart? And, you know, he seemed to be a lot more active about my own cause than I was. So I wonder, what's his relationship the stalker and Mark, what are their relationship? And I do wonder where he is. I don't know if he's still investigating my life or, you know, watching me, if he's still, you know, sucking up my energy at night. I just. I want him to be as far away as possible from me, but the Internet doesn't let me do that. And I feel his presence close to me too often, and it just makes me feel really uneasy. And I feel like, you know, investigating the story or trying to answer some of those questions might help me feel more distant about it. All.
- [60:54]
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Right. I mentioned in the first episode that when I first spoke to Clara on the phone, she was really reaching out to look for answers. She was, of course, relieved that this guy finally left her alone, but she never got any closure and was still living in fear that one day he might pick it back up again. In fact, part of the reason she initially wouldn't even say his name is that she worried it might attract him somehow. It might seem silly to say that, but the way she was able to finally put an end to all of this was so unexpected and strange that it makes anything seem possible. I mean, the police in Montreal, as well as the Canadian and French authorities had all been trying to catch this guy. So was this mysterious man named Mark and his task force. But in the end, it was these two energy healers who did some kind of ritual and told her to get rid of the items that he gave her because it might have brought some sort of dark entity into her home that was feeding off of her at night. And then the second she got rid of those items, the stalker texts her saying, message received and that he was going to leave her alone. Kind of a last message after she successfully got rid of him. Almost like he saw the entire thing happen. That is so strange, and I have no real answers for it. I know for a fact he was not in Canada at this point. He also no longer had access to her email or social media. So maybe it was just a coincidence, but it really didn't seem like it. Even. Even though Clara was relieved things had stopped, she never got any answers about who this guy was, why he was doing it, whether or not he was in some sort of larger group, who this esoteric detective was and the task force, whether or not they also were part of some larger group in the past, along with the stalker. And I think, most importantly, where did the stalker go? Where was he now? And was there a chance he might show up again one day? On our first phone call, I told Clara that I would be happy to look into this and help her find these answers and try to find out anything I could about this man. Essentially that I would stalk the Stalker and in part four, the final episode of the series, the we finally get some answers. This has been The Stalker Part 3 and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our producers are Theo Schaeffer, Theo Krantz, Haley Pearson and Nikki Kate Delgado. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by North Americans and Juice Jackal. Our artwork is by Cul de Sac Studios. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five star review and telling your friends about the show. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you can become a patron@patreon.com Otherworld Our social media is Otherworldpod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey. Leah Rhys, Dennis, Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Eric Donnelly, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor and Hilary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odysee app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural or unexplained, you can send us your stories@storiesotherworldpod.com.
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