Episode 167: The Stalker Pt. 4

Summary

---

Otherworld – Episode 167: The Stalker Pt. 4 (May 11, 2026)

Host: Jack Wagner
Guests: Clara, Mark Auburn ("The Esoteric Detective")

---

Episode Overview

In "The Stalker Pt. 4," Jack Wagner seeks long-awaited answers to the tangled, paranormal-laced story of Clara and her relentless stalker dubbed “Michael.” Investigating the bizarre web surrounding Michael, Jack enlists French investigative journalist Alison Ferreira and ultimately connects with Mark Auburn, the so-called “esoteric detective,” whose own confrontation with Michael helped bring this disturbing saga to an unexpected conclusion. The episode unearths chilling new details about Michael's actions, delves into possible explanations (ranging from mental illness to demonic possession), and explores the emotional fallout for Clara—and for everyone affected by this ordeal.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Quest for Answers

(00:53–06:34)

• Clara’s story seemed to conclude in part 3, but the lack of closure haunted her (and Jack).
• Jack, unable to navigate French legal resources, partners with Le Monde’s Alison Ferreira to investigate Michael’s background.
• French privacy laws thwart most fact-finding efforts; personal and court records are largely private, even for journalists.
• Mark Auburn (“the esoteric detective”) stands out as a prominent figure in France’s spiritual community.

2. Introducing Mark Auburn

(07:23–09:02)

• Mark explains: “Yes, My public name is Marco Berne… I have a few followers on Internet, I'm doing videos and also lectures and also trainings. My community is more or less 300,000 people in France, French speaking people… before that I have a private company...” (07:23)
• He previously held corporate positions (Kimberly Clark) and now lectures on consciousness, the afterlife, etc.

3. Mark’s Stalking Ordeal

(09:02–18:02)

• Mark receives unprovoked, life-threatening messages from Michael while traveling in Quebec in 2023.
• “I thought it was a friend who was just joking with me because it was so ridiculous… and this guy was threatening me, saying he will be murdering me because I am kind of devil…” (09:02)
• Mark briefly considers flying to the Philippines to confront the perpetrator before realizing the true location is North America.
• Teresa, another victim, informs Mark of Michael’s real identity and history of disturbing, satanic threats and manipulative behavior.

4. Michael’s Patterned Abuse: Teresa’s Story

(13:50–18:57)

• Michael posed as a supportive filmmaker, then quickly escalated into threats and harassment when rebuffed.
• “She just said, okay, you are seeking the wrong guy. I know the guy. His name is Michael. I know this guy absolutely well… he was threatening of death, blood ritual and absolutely disgusting.” (13:50)
• Teresa goes to the FBI, but jurisdictional issues limit any legal action.

5. The Task Force and Michael’s Doxxing

(22:05–27:38)

• Mark forms an informal “Devil’s Hunters” team to investigate Michael; they locate his personal details and trace his movements and connections.
• Discovery: Michael had written online about violent fantasies, including killing Mark.
• “In one of his books, he was describing how to kill me… willing to kill me with a knife to cut my throat.” (24:32)
• Mark almost drives 600 miles to confront Michael before French police intervene, launching a legal case.

6. Police Involvement and the Montreal Episode

(27:41–34:03)

• Mark’s team finds Michael’s ex-roommate in Montreal, corroborating details of police searching for Michael there.
• Mark learns Michael was obsessed with pendulums, spiritual beliefs, and the concept of “twin flames” (claimed Clara as his).
• Mark forwards information from Teresa to Clara as warning.

7. Trial and Diagnosis

(34:04–38:13)

• Michael is arrested after returning to France. During the quick trial, he denies everything.
• Psychiatric evaluation deems him legally sane, despite bizarre claims of acting “in the name of light.”
• Mark adamantly disagrees: “This guy was not only a psychotic case, he was what we call a parasitic entity... under demonic possession. It was absolutely obvious to me.” (35:27)
• Sentence: Probation (sursis) and €1,000 restitution, which Michael refuses to pay. He soon disappears.

8. The Mystery of Michael’s Demise

(38:13–44:43)

• Mark recounts gathering information from Michael’s friends; a rapid mental and spiritual decline is described.
• “He had satanic friends, two men and a woman… They are satanic. We know there are photo of them doing satanic things.” (38:52)
• Michael is found dead in a remote cabin at age 45; the cause listed as “natural,” though unexplained.

Notable Moment

• “[Michael's friend] just watched the process… He suddenly became aware that there was a demonic presence in this body… This guy is now dangerous for society, potentially is able to do whatever you imagine, including murder.” (40:40)

9. Emotional Fallout for Clara

(52:15–56:10)

• Mark notifies Clara of Michael’s death in a curt email: “The subject line read, mission accomplished. And I'm like, what the fuck is that?... And so I opened the email and it's Mark. And he's like, hey, I just wanted to let you know that Michael is dead. He was found dead by his doorstep… Story over. That's it. You're good. Like, see you around.” (52:15)
• Clara is conflicted: sudden relief, underlying fear, and persistent questions about Michael’s mental state and prophetic messages.
• “I think I've always had pity for him… This man was suffering quite a bit and he dedicated his whole life to pursuing me... there is a liberation that comes with the fact that I know that he's not there to… harm me. And that he would never be able to harm me physically ever again was liberating.” (54:27–56:10)

10. Was It Possession or Mental Illness?

(58:00–60:06)

• Mark believes Michael was literally possessed by a demonic entity that eventually killed him when he was no longer useful.
• “He absolutely was, yes. I don't think so. I saw it because I can't see it.” (35:46)
• Clara is open but skeptical: “He was possessed by something, even if it was his own mind. Like, this man was not in control of himself at all… whether it's his story or anyone else's story, when they stop being in control of themselves, who is in control of them, you know?... that surely killed him, whatever imbalance that was.” (58:20–59:20)
• Jack repeats: whatever the diagnosis, Michael ultimately lost control of himself.

---

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• “At this point, the stalker was back in France. I do not speak French. Even Googling basic stuff to find information in French newspapers was difficult when you don't speak the language. So the first thing I did was enlist the help of Alison Ferreira, who is an investigative journalist at Le Monde.” — Jack Wagner (04:11)
• “This guy was threatening me, saying he will be murdering me because I am kind of devil or something like that. And he was speaking as he was in the name of light.” — Mark Auburn (09:02)
• “He just sent me something like 10 messages. And at the moment I noticed that there is another person involved… he was speaking about an American woman, a young American woman, saying he will destroy her.” — Mark Auburn (12:59)
• “He was making a film with this woman… but at the end of the day… he tried to have an affair with Teresa. She refused… and it became, as he was frustrated, he became to be more and more bizarre, more and more weird.” — Mark Auburn (16:18)
• “In one of his books… he was willing to kill me with a knife to cut my throat.” — Mark Auburn (24:32)
• “When I meet him… I saw that he was not alone in the physical body, because I can see. So it was the final proof... this guy was possessed. He had a demon inside his physical body. I saw it. So to me, this is true.” — Mark Auburn (45:41)
• “He did say… that he wasn’t in control of himself anymore. He… explicitly said that he would never harm me, but that he wasn’t in control of himself anymore... when they stop being in control of themselves, who is in control of them, you know?” — Clara (58:18)
• “It turns out this whole time, the stalker pursuing Clara had a predator of his own, one that was even more relentless than him.” — Jack Wagner (60:06)

---

Timeline & Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:53–06:34 | Jack describes investigation difficulties and enlisting Alison Ferreira | | 07:23–09:02 | Mark’s background and transition from corporate world to spiritual influencer | | 09:02–18:02 | Mark recounts initial threats from Michael and contact with Teresa | | 22:05–27:38 | Digital investigation: Task Force, Devil’s Hunters and doxxing Michael | | 34:04–38:13 | Details of police involvement and court proceedings | | 38:43–44:43 | How Michael descended from a “normal” life to death, theories about satanic involvement | | 52:15–56:10 | Clara processes the news of Michael’s death | | 58:00–60:06 | Clara and Mark debate demonic possession vs. mental illness |

---

Final Reflections

• The episode reframes Clara’s story: the hunter becomes the hunted, Mark unexpectedly emerging as a relentless foil to Michael.
• Mark and Teresa see literal demonic possession at play; Clara and Jack lean toward a more psychological—but equally chilling—interpretation.
• Clara’s relief is ultimately tempered by a sense of unresolved pity and unanswered questions—a tension between closure and the lingering trauma of stalking.
• The case closes with Michael’s death, shrouded in mystery, yet bringing a sense of peace and finality for Clara: “There is a liberation that comes with the fact that I know that he's not there… he would never be able to harm me physically ever again was liberating.” (56:10)

---

If you haven’t heard The Stalker saga, this episode is an extraordinary ending—a real-life account veering into the paranormal, investigative journalism, and raw emotional aftermath, all woven with Jack Wagner’s open, empathetic narrative style.

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

There's never been a better time to get outside and experience the benefits of nature, discover nearby trails and explore the outdoors with alltrails. Download the free app today and find

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

your outside this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

Welcome to Other World. I'm your host Jack Wagner. In Part three, we essentially heard the end of Clara's story. Or at least that's what she hoped. But even though the stalker had left her alone completely after sending that one final text, the moment she got rid of the supposedly cursed objects, the fear that he might return was constantly looming over her. In a way, she was still being haunted by the entire experience and the lack of closure. Additionally, all of the unknowns were lingering and quite frankly, I had so many questions myself and was personally very eager to dive in and hopefully find some answers. My big questions were who was this guy? Why did he believe these things? Was he part of some sort of group or cult related to twin flames or the many other things he spoke about? Who was this so called esoteric detective and the task force? Could they also be part of this hypothetical group? Did they have a falling out? Why was he on the hunt for this guy? Was there really a court case? Did a psychiatrist actually determine that the stalker was legally sane? Had he gone to jail? I mean, I had so many questions. In fact, there was so much deception involved in this story that it really makes you question everything. We weren't sure if anything was true. We weren't even sure if Michael was the stalker's real name because he often used different spellings of this name. And of course he was reaching out to Clara under dozens and dozens of different made up pseudonyms. So I set out to look for answers and even though I consider myself a pretty good investigator, I quickly realized I was completely out of my depth. All of the emails and documents were written in French. At this point, the stalker was back in France. I do not speak French. Even Googling basic stuff to find information in French newspapers was difficult when you don't speak the language. So the first thing I did was enlist the help of Alison Ferreira, who is an investigative journalist at Le Monde. I caught her up to speed on this very strange story and sent her everything I had After. After that, Alison and myself set out and spent several months looking for anything we could find. And this proved to be quite difficult. Part of the reason for this is that France has much stricter privacy laws than the United States. Personal information, court records, and police reports are not public information. In fact, court records are often anonymized if they are released, and even criminal records can get scrubbed after a certain amount of years. Even journalists can't really access a lot of this information. So even if there was a court case or other news about this guy, his name was not really appearing in any of the articles. Alison did great work and reached out to lots of people, but a lot of what we were doing was not panning out, and most of the questions remained unanswered as the months continued to go by. The one person who had no shortage of public information was Mark, the one we've been calling the esoteric detective. He had quite a large online presence. He's sort of an influencer in the French spiritual space. He had tons of videos on YouTube of him talking about astral projection, aliens, advanced technologies, the afterlife, Eastern religions, reincarnations, you, name seemed that he had written some books in the past and speaks at conferences. There was also this video of him doing a presentation about a very expensive and complicated looking device that I believe was some sort of flashing light meant to induce altered states of consciousness. I'm not sure this video was entirely in French, but I had never seen a device like this before. And like I said, it looked pretty elaborate. That is all to say that I understand why Clara was wary when Mark reached out to her and thought that Mark and the stalker may have been connected previously because it seemed like they might share some similar beliefs. I felt the same way. And for that reason, I thought it would be best to find out as much information as I possibly could before reaching out and speaking to Mark. Eventually, after months of searching without much luck, I decided it was time to finally reach out and talked to Mark, the man that Clara referred to as the esoteric detective. I had no idea what this conversation was going to be like, but it turned out that Mark had so much more information than I ever could have anticipated. And after I spoke to him, the story really changed for me in so many ways.

[Clara]

Hello, Is this Bobby?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yes, it is.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

At its core, the science, you can't argue.

[Clara]

You, I was worried about up in the sky.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

It's almost frustrating that it's happening. I'm literally I'm going to die.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Its limbs were just like wrong.

[Clara]

Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them a minute.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yes, My public name is Marco Berne. At the moment I am a kind of what we call in France an influencer. I have a few followers on Internet, I'm doing videos and also lectures and also trainings. My community is more or less 300,000 people in France, French speaking people. But it is a new job for me, you know, because before that I have a private company. I delivered meals to companies, big companies. And before that I used to work for American company whose name was Kimberly Clark. I don't know if you know what is Kimberly Clark.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

I know Kimberly Clark. They make toilet paper and sinks.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah, absolutely. I was working for them in my previous life as commercial director from France. And I was launching, for example, many years ago, Huggies in. In France and Europe, for example. Okay. This is my very past life and at the moment I only doing training lecturers in India and in Canada, in France, in Belgium. So everywhere I can go.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Well, my introduction to you comes from Clara. And when she first met you, she met you as a sort of detective or investigator.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

That's right.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Is that something that you've done for work or is that something you found yourself doing?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah, the story is very, very simple. In fact, I was staying in Canada, in Quebec, for a training with my wife and I received a strange message. First of all, I thought it was a friend who was just joking with me because it was so ridiculous, you know, I mean, ridiculous. And this guy was threatening me, saying he will be murdering me because I am kind of devil or something like that. And he was speaking as he was in the name of light. He knew everything. He was able to go in the astral world and to hurt me, to destroy me. He promised, for example, to just remove my wife from my life and things like that.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

He threatened to kill your wife?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

To kill myself and to remove my wife from my life.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Oh my God.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Maybe things like that.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

What year was this?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

23. 2023.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Do you remember which month?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah, September. I do remember, yes. We were staying in Quebec at the moment. So I was pretty surprised because it was the first time I was receiving such messages. You know, there is many, many people not really normal on the net. And as I am speaking of very strong topics, for example, out of body stuff, something like that, I would say there is a little minority of people are real mad on the net. So normally I block them, I block Them and my wife said, okay, just block this one as you do normally. But I said, oh, this one is a big one. It's a nice one. Maybe we should see what it is behind this message with my personality is somebody is threatening me. I became Rambo. It was my surname when I was working in the business. For example, in Kimberly Clark, everybody called me Rambo. You are for training me. Okay, I'm coming. Let's do it now. Right now. First of all, I put this message on my Facebook page. It was my first action. And immediately I would say, within 10 or 15 minutes, a guy, one of my followers replies to my message and said, I know this guy. I know who is he. I know precisely who is he and where is he. I was very interested in following this path, following this foolish guy. But we made a mistake because first of all, we were just following the wrong path. This guy, the first guy was staying in Philippine Islands. So I was preparing myself before coming back in France. I was preparing myself to go to Philippine island and to put my hand. You know what I mean? Wait, wait, so you to meet directly this police guy because as he was threatening me, you know, I am a guy. This is my personality. I was practicing martial arts for many years. I'm not afraid of being threatening. At the opposite, I like the fight. So I will find you as a guy. The foolish guy, he want to see me. Okay, wait, wait, wait.

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

So you were gonna fly to fight or confront this guy in person and you thought he was in the Philippines at the time?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah, I thought he was in the Philippines, but it was a mistake.

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

Got it.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

When we came back the very first night, I was just putting my intention of what he wrote because he just sent me something like 10 messages. And at the moment I noticed that there is another person involved in this threatening. He was speaking about an American woman, a young American woman, saying he will destroy her. I was in a kind of jet lag, you know, in France. So I just tried to found this woman. So I found the name on the Internet by messenger and I sent a message and said, are you this woman?

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Was it Teresa?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah, it was Teresa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and I'm not supposed to talk about that because she. She wanted to be to stay anonymous. So we have few message between her and me. And she just learned to me, she just said, okay, you are seeking the wrong guy. I know the guy. His name is Michael. I know this guy absolutely well. He's not staying in Filipino Island. He's somewhere in North America. And he's originally from France and Switzerland. So she said to me, okay, this is very clear. I know this guy. He's absolutely mad. So, you know, if you know the story, he was absolutely awful. Oh, he was threatening of death, blood ritual and absolutely disgusting. She sent me the message she received. I was very, very upset about that because to be coward, I call them coward. She has not possibility to defend herself. She's only a woman. I am a man. If a man would like to tackle me, okay, there will be a response. You know what I mean? So the message and information she gave me at the moment, I was very surprised because it was absolutely disgusting. It was satanic. Exactly. Satanic. Teresa was. She wrote a book about the parasitic phenomenon, you know, the demonic entities. And she was contacted by Michael because she would like to be her filmmaker. And he said, it will be for free. It will be for free because I am so close to your views about these entities, you know. So he was a filmmaker. I don't know if you know the story, but he kept all the record. He kept all the record for him. And he tried to take Theresa on court, saying, okay, this is my own work. Not your. Not sure.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Oh, so he was making a film with this woman.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Teresa was just driving the film, everything. But at the end of the day, at the end of the week, it became more and more strange. For example, he tried to have an affair with Teresa. She refused. Yeah, he tried to. And it became, as he was frustrated, he became to be more and more bizarre, more and more weird. His eyes changed. And it was more and more frightening for Teresa and her mother, more and more. She told me that many times. She wrote me many things. And after that, she sent me the mail she received from Michael, who was absolutely disgusting. Awful, awful. I know what Michael sent to Clara was very awful too, but more sexually things. I think Teresa and her mother was just watching the change. This guy was transforming himself. She was really frightened by him and her mother too, more and more and more and more and more and more. So she tried to stop the business between her and him, but he just refused. He said, okay, I have all the records. It's mine completely. So she had this problem with him,

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

okay, so they were making a film

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

together, and he basically stole this film.

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

And that's when it all started, it seems. Did it ever get physical with him in terms of his stalking?

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Did it ever take place in person

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

or was it all messages?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

She didn't. No. She wasn't touched, physically speaking, but she sent her many Messages. Very dirty. Messenger Threatening Teresa of death and sorcery and many things. It is absolutely disgusting. Blood rituals. You will find you. You just commit suicide. Because I am coming to you. I see you. I know where you are. I will come to you to kill. You know, when you are a single woman and you receive such a message and you don't know, you know, these guys are absolutely mad. You know, she just came to the FBI to tell the story. But at this moment he was in Canada. You know, the FBI is only for the usa.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Was that right before he met Clara?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

I think so. I think so. I think he found Clara after the beginning of the relation with Teresa.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

That makes sense because he originally messaged her about writing a script.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

So as soon as Teresa didn't want to work on the script, he flew to Montreal. And that makes sense because she was shocked at how fast he got there.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

So yeah.

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

Okay, we have to go to a quick break, but we'll be right back.

[Prime Obsession Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by Prime Obsession is in session. And this summer Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories. And the book to screen favorites you've already read twice off campus. Elle every year after the love hypothesis, Sterling point and more slow burns, second chances chemistry you can pick feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting.

[Obsession Movie Advertiser]

Watch only on Prime Focus Features in Blumhouse present Obsession.

[Clara]

When I have a crush on a

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

guy no one knows.

[Obsession Movie Advertiser]

Be careful.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

I wish Nikki love me more than anyone in the entire world.

[Obsession Movie Advertiser]

Who you wish for. Obsession is 96 fresh on rotten tomatoes.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

I love you so so so so much.

[Obsession Movie Advertiser]

It's blood soaked night nightmare fuel congress

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

bullet put on her.

[Obsession Movie Advertiser]

You have been warned. Obsession. Rated R under 17 on a minute without parent only theaters May 15 with special engagements in Dolby Girl.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Winter is so last season and now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders that perfect hang on the patio Sundress those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch.

[Clara]

Done.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross.

[Taco Bell Advertiser]

Work your magic from sauce to dust to nuggets. It's Taco Bell's new Diablo. Dusted crispy chicken nuggets.

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

Are they mild?

[Taco Bell Advertiser]

If they were mild, they'd have to change the name to Little Rascals nuggets or minor nuisance nuggets? Definitely Diablo new Diablo dusted crispy chicken nuggets. A brand new classic. Only a Taco bell. At participating U.S. taco Bell locations for a limited time and while supplies last.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

At this moment, I was gathering a small team. I would say 10 person. Many of them were just friends or followers on the network. And I said, okay, could you drive an investigation to know everything about this guy? Because we know the name, but it was not exactly the civil name. So first of all, we have difficulties to find him. But one of my investigators said, okay, maybe we can change a little bit. Michael should be written differently. At this moment, we found the real guy. Okay. And we started to gather many and many, many, many information. It was absolutely incredible to me because I'm not a real computer man, network man, you know, networks. I'm not a specialist, but these people, my people, I would say the team. We call them the. What's the name we get?

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Task force.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah, something like that. Devil's Hunter, something like that. Yes, Hunter something. Devil's Hunters. And they found many, many, many, many information about this guy. We knew his path, where he was living. We found this exact address, exact address in France. Exact address. We learned many things about his family. His father, his mother, his sister, where he was studying, his agency, because he was a kind of filmmaker. He was traveling a lot when he was young because his parents were in charge of different responsibilities in India and in many places in the world. And probably it was at this moment that he was in contact with Indian spirituality. We found everything, including a Facebook page. He had a very nice Facebook page with very nice pictures of deities, angels. And in this Facebook page, there was two links to what we call books. Some books, you know. And in one of his books, he was describing how to kill me.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

He wrote a book about how to kill you?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Not exactly only how to kill me, but in one of his books, it's only something like 50 pages, you know, he was willing to kill me with a knife to cut my throat. Yes. So we have a special organization in France in this kind of terrorist situation. We could. We can inform the government, the French government. So I just sent a message and said, this guy is threatening me. I didn't believe in the reaction of the French government, but the day after a policeman contacted me saying he will take care of the case. It was absolutely immediate. But as I was aware, I was informed of the precise address of the guy. I was organizing a direct visit at the very moment I was about to leave my home and making some, I would say 600 miles between my home and his home. And I was about to leave when I received this call from this policeman. And she was a woman, she was an officer. An officer.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wait, so you were about to leave your house and drive 600 miles to go fight him? Basically.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Okay, I am the guy who want to kill. What do you do now? Okay.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

And then the police called.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Then the police called. But anyway, I say, okay, I'm going, I'm going to meet him. Because he want to heal me. I don't know why exactly, because he found me on Internet. I didn't even know why he chose me. Why meet? We didn't meet each other. I don't know him. So he want to kill me. Okay, let's go. So I went to this place. I saw that the letterbox was absolutely full. So after that I was just seeking for the people around. I say, do you know this guy? Where is he? And immediately I found few people saying, oh, this guy is far away in Canada somewhere. He was traveling for four months and we don't know where he's supposed to come back. Four months traveling. And as he was not here, was not at home, I just say, okay, now I have to go home.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

And was he still contacting you at this point at all?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Just as he was about to come back in France, I just said to him, okay, we know who you are. And now this is a police case. I promised you I will find you. We found you. He said, at this moment. He responded, he said, okay, I am in Manitoba, you will never find me. He said his answer was this one. I said, I will catch you.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

That was when he was in Manitoba?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

He was following Clara.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yes. And you know, we found a girl who was sharing his flat in Montreal. We found a girl and we have a direct communication with this. It was very difficult, but we are very lucky. And this woman said, okay, but this guy Michael was my roommate in Montreal from this week to this week. She was giving many information about this guy. And for example, she said a few days after she left the flat, the police came in the middle of the night to catch him in Montreal. In Montreal? Yes, in the middle. Something like two o' clock in the night. Until this moment, we don't know why the police were seeking him. What was the reason? Because probably he did something bad.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Did she say anything about his behavior? Did she know him before?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah, yeah. She said he was very strong guy. For example, for choosing even an apple on a basket, he was Using his pendulum.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Ah, that makes sense. I heard about the pendulum.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah. He was trying to convince this nice woman, young woman, beautiful woman, you know, she's an enlightened guy. But he pretended on his writings to be the opposite. He pretended to me. It was the first time writing about Clara. He said she was his spouse. He was married with this guy, with women. I didn't know nothing about Clara. He was describing what he called his paredre. Paredre is a friend. I didn't even know the word parad. What it is paradre. It is a celestial spouse, you know, soulmate. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Like a twin.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah? Yes. Twin flame or something like that.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Twin flames.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah, yeah. This, you know, to me it's a. This twin film story. I found Clara, I sent her a message, but she was very upset about this story. You know, what we call the stalker, she called them. And she was very shy to reveal anything about her story about this Michael Criminal. Michael criminal.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

What was your other name for him?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Le Malademontal. Le psychopath. Psychopath, yes. And the criminal. Also the criminal. So we have a very simple exchange and I send information, a copy of what I got from Teresa to provide Clara with precise information. She was very upset about this story and she didn't want to be involved in my investigation. I accepted it. This is normal. This guy was absolutely full. I didn't want to disturb the life of this lady, you know, Cara, because it was a traumatic experience. So I was just. My last message to Michael said, okay, I know who you are and who are your victims. To. If you attack these people, you attack myself and my team. And we take into account when we will meet you physically, I mean. So you attack them. You attack me and my team. It was my last message, okay, don't touch these ladies. Don't even think about sending them messages. You stop it. If you don't obey to my order when I found you, I will smash you physically. I will destroy you. So he came back in his flat in France. It took few days, something like five days before he was arrested by the police. And he was denying everything because before coming back in France, he just canceled, he just erased all the Facebook publication more and more. He was aware that my personal reaction was real, I was doing something. But before he erased it, we have already recorded everything. So when he was on custody, when he was on garda vue, the police officer called me and said he was denying to have this type of Facebook pages. So I sent. During his custody, I sent all the proofs to the Police officer and said, perfect, thank you so much. And he was just faced with the proof in front of him, you know. You think it is erased from Internet? No, we have a record, a complete record of what you did and what you wrote and what you said. So it was mise en examine is a French term, a judge. Because the police officer sent the case to a judge and the judge charged him with, first of all for what we call apologie du terrorism, terrorist apology. And secondly, for threatening me. Threatening from death. Okay. It was on October 23 and the judgment was on December. It was very, very quick. It is very unusual in France. Normally you have an affair, a legal affair. In tech it is taking months and months, sometimes years. But it took only two months for going before the court. And I went there. So I found this guy in front of me. He was threatening me of death. He wasn't even able to just look me eyes to eyes. He was just watching at the floor. He was watching on the floor every minute, every second.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

And this was in the court?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yes. Even he was speaking to the judge. She was a woman, the judge. I thought it would be very quick, something like five or 10 minutes, because we have all the proof. But the judge invested many times, asked me many questions. She was conducting another investigation. And the people inside the room was absolutely surprised. This guy was claiming he was acting in the name of light. He was following the order of the light beings and many, many, many details like that. It was absolutely ridiculous. But it was really believing in that. Because you can say it is a psychiatric case. Okay, but he has a kind of psychiatric exam. And the psychiatric expert said he's normal. He's supposed to be, I would say, responsible for his acts. To me, this guy was not only a psychotic case, he was what we call a parasitic entity. You know, is a Christian church. You have what we call exorcism. People are. I don't know, there is English chap, sorry, but possessed.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Like a demonic possession.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Demonic possession, yes. And this guy was under demonic possession. It was absolutely obvious to me.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

You think he was possessed?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah, he absolutely was, yes. I don't think so. I saw it because I can't see it.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

And the psychological evaluation said that he was sane, even though he was saying all this stuff.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Normally the judge was supposed. He's supposed to follow the expert advice, but nobody believe in this diagnostic, even his lawyer. I didn't believe in this. The judge didn't believe in this. Nobody believed in this. It was just bullshit. This guy was absolutely mad. It was obvious you know, to me more of that he was possessed, but by evil spirit, you know, 10 years before, if you told me there is such a devil spirit, I would say no, no, no, just it doesn't exist. But I found that it was true. I was very surprised. I found that it was true. For example, what can I say that because as I describe it in my books, my third book, for example, I am able, because it's a case, I am able to see the light around the people, what we call the aura. Okay. It started when I was 17, so a long time ago. It is staying in me since my 70s. So I saw and you know, I can hear also the energetic field. Because the energetic field is real. You can see it when you hear the noise of the energetic field. And when there is two entities in the same physical body, you hear what we call a dissonance to music, but not matching themselves. You know what I mean? Is it clear?

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Dissonance? Yes.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

So I saw this guy and I saw it was a proof that it was on possession. There was a devil inside him. So he was condemned. But it was condied to what we call a probation period, what we call surci in French, because it was his first act, criminal act. There is a case in France where you don't go to jail, but the next time you will go to jail.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

So he just got probation?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah, probation, yes, exactly. And he was supposed to just give me a very little amount of money, €1,000. But he refused to pay. He refused to pay. After that he moved from his flat and it just was disappearing, it disappeared completely.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Do you know when this started for him? It seems like he had a normal life before, like something happened.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Whether it's mental illness, whether it's a demon like you think, I mean, either

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

way, like why did you believe the things?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

We have many information, including from a close friend of him, very close friend. And these guys saw the process. He saw the process. Before he was a normal guy, very interested in spiritual topics. He was very fond of Indian stuff, you know, Indian spirituality, many things like that. He was trying to gathering all the spirituality he can find. Also he was very ambitious. He was very willing to become famous in the movie business. But unfortunately, like many, he wasn't very successful. It was a bad life, you know. And we also knew, because we identified them, he had satanic friends, two men and a woman. We know they are satanic. Were photo of them doing satanic things. These two people, close friend to Michael. Okay, we don't know exactly what happened. To me, it's only a guess. One more time. He was involved at a certain moment in the satanic things. And as he was very willing to be powerful and famous, he let an entity penetrate his body. He let an entity, you know, take. Take the control of his physical body.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

You think he essentially made a deal with the devil? But literally, yeah. What did the friend. What did the friend think? What did he say about when this all started? Do we know?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

When he said, you know, his friend is very normal guy, very. He was in a business school. He's a really normal guy. And he just watched the process. These guys became mad and mad and mad and mad within weeks until the very moment he was absolutely dangerous, he suddenly became aware that there was a demonic presence in this body. It was also a surprise for him because before that he didn't attend such a phenomenon, you know, and he said, and he just write to the police also. This guy is now dangerous for the society, potentially is able to do whatever you imagine, including murder. I knew him before. I saw the process and I saw what is now is dangerous for everybody. So this is a direct testimony. Direct was a close friend. Basically. After that it disappeared completely. We only knew that it was no longer working. But then one of my investigators was curious about him. She started to make an investigation on the net. She found something and she found him in the north of France, not very far away from Honfleur. He was renting a very little cabin in the middle of the country. And as he was not paying the rent, the. The agency came to the cabin. But he didn't answer. So she used his keys and she found him dead in the entrance of the cabin.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

She found Michael.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

She found him dead inside the cabin.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Oh my God.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

He was 45. So she immediately informed the police. The NJC employee just came out, called the police and the police came and the police make an investigation. The cause of the death, was it a murder? Was it a suicide? Does he commit a suicide? Riffy the conclusion we saw on the newspapers that they found nothing. It was a natural death. No murder, no suicide. He was 45. They were not able to explain what this natural death was. They just said it was a natural death. We don't have more information. First of all, I say, okay, this is normal death. What does it mean? But I saw this guy and to me this is my own interpretation, you know, my own analysis. His parasite, the parasite inside and the demon inside killed him because he was no more useful. This is my guess. I'm not sure because, you know, because this entity are sucking the vital energy. So it wasn't useful because it couldn't hurt any. Anybody anymore. So to me, this entity, this demoniac entity, killed Michael and just left his body to find another prey. I'm not sure, but to me, this is the explanation.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

How did you feel hearing the news? Was it complicated? Feeling? Were you relieved?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

What did you think about my feeling? I felt nothing. No, nothing. Okay? He's dead, okay? End of the story. Sorry, sorry. But I didn't cry. My wife cried a little bit. Oh, it's a poor guy. Okay? He's a criminal. And if we had let him doing more things, and we have testimony of that, maybe he would have murdered somebody. It was very possible. This story is finished, is dead, and that's it. End of the story.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Is there a reason you don't think it was just like a mental health crisis?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah, I told you for a minute ago. But when I meet him, because I have to meet him, physically speaking, I saw what is that was not alone in the physical body, because I can see. Okay, so it was the final proof. It could be only a mental case, a psycho psychiatric case. Because I'm very rational, you know. You don't know me, but I'm very rational. But this guy was possessed. He had a demon inside his physical body. I saw it. So to me, this is true.

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

Do you know about how.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

How Clara got rid of him?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

No, I don't know. She didn't tell so many things about her because she was.

[Clara]

She.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

She went to a healer. She went to a healer?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Who did some kind of ritual to her and then said that she needs to get rid of everything he's ever sent her because he was sending her all these rocks and, like, bracelets and things, and she went and got rid of them. And then the moment she got rid of those items, he texted her and said, okay, I get the message. I'll leave you alone now.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm not surprised, but thank you for the information.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

It was almost like he knew that she did it.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Probably the entity knew that, not him. But the entity isn't that weird? It is not weird to me. It's only real.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

But he didn't talk to her again after that. Okay, you don't seem. You're not even surprised at all.

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

No, no. You know, I know a guy in France. He's a Christian guy. It's Monseigneur Gerard. He's an exorcist. And I know personally this guy. And, you know, this guy was previously you know what he was doing previously? He was an intelligent officer for France in Africa. And this guy is not an exorcist. And you know, the energetic world is real because as I can go out of the body, I can travel through these realities. And this guy, Monseigneur Gerard is a scientific of this world. He knows everything. It's not a question of beliefs. He knows the rules, he knows the entities. He knows how sometime to get rid of it. It's a job. It's very difficult job because from these entities it is taking days and days before removing the influence, before removing the entity from the physical body. This is a job and a very old job. This is a very old belief. This is a very old job. In our civilization we don't believe in it. We say, okay, this is only budget, it doesn't exist. But it is true. These entities are really existing. And from time to time that just penetrate and take control of a physical body and a physical personality. With weaknesses. Sure, there is weaknesses if you just penetrate a house. Because there is a door opens somewhere, you know, because normally you are not under possession. I'm not under possession because my doors are closed to this entity. So thank you for the information. What Clara did, he did the right things.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, I guess my last question is something that I'm even wondering myself right now is. I'm curious what you believe he eventually left Clara alone. Do you think that he left her alone because of that ritual that was done to her and the cleansing? Or do you think it was because of the threats of Mark Auburn?

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

Maybe both. Because I put. The therapy was efficient. But I put on Michael a very huge, huge, huge pressure. I was just chasing him. You are my prey. You are my prey. I'm seeking. I will catch you. You can hide any place on the earth. Even in Manitoba. I will find you. I will find you. You are my prey. And he was joking at him because he was promising me to find me in the astral world and to fight me. The day I felt. What did you do last night? I didn't see you. You're just a liar. And your God, your so called God doesn't exist. You are just a madman. You are just inventing these things. And you are a criminal. You are just fully. You are nothing. I'm not a friend of you. You just make me laugh. I was joking at eve. At him in many, many, many, maybe 10 messages, you know. So he was under pressure. Sure. The spiritual ritual, energetic ritual was efficient to Clara. Yes, sure. But yes, maybe it's Both.

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

After my interview with Mark and learning all of this, he emailed Clara to let her know that the stalker had passed. Later on, I spoke to Clara one more time to get her reaction.

[Clara]

Yeah, I was just. I was just drinking coffee and I got an email. And I look at it and it's an email from Mark. And he. The. The subject line read, mission accomplished. And I'm like, what the fuck is that? And so I opened the email and it's Mark. And he's like, hey, I just wanted to let you know that Michael is dead. He was found dead by his doorstep. He had died of natural causes. And story over. That's it. You're good. Like, see you around. And that was the end of the message. And I don't even know, like, it's so strange to feel like all of a sudden, like at that moment I just realized, like, how much fear I still had in me. It was kind of numb. What puzzles me is that he did predict his death. He did say that he. And that I just found out because when we had our first interview, I re read vertically some of the passages that he had written me, and there was a lot of predictions of, you know, oh, I don't have a lot of time left, you know, rising into heaven. And so, yeah, I think when I put two and two together and I realized that maybe he knew that he didn't have so much time left and then he died of natural causes at the age of 45. How can you die of natural causes at 45? Like, you know, a heart attack. But as you say, like, there wasn't even any specificity to what kind of natural cause on his. I guess maybe they don't mention more when it's natural, but I just. It just added an ingredient to a very strange story.

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

Does any part of you, like, have pity for him? In a way?

[Clara]

Yeah. I think I've always had pity for him. I've always had pity for him because I. I made him suffer ultimately by being silent and by not being interested. This man was suffering quite a bit and he dedicated his whole life to pursuing me.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

And I don't think you made him

[Clara]

suffer, but the pity came from knowing that I had a part in his suffering, even though it wasn't necessarily an active. I mean, it was a very passive part, which was more. Which led to more suffering from him. But, yeah, yeah, I do feel pity for him. I. But there's just so many questions that are toppled up on top of one another that's, you know, like the, the the real raw feeling. Human feelings are kind of under the earth.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

It's weird. I think most of the time when there's somebody that does harm to you,

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

there's not a resolution.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Like this life isn't like a western movie where there's a clear cut bad

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

guy that does something bad to you and then somebody else rides into town, enacts justice and then the bad guy is just gone. And the end. That's rarely the case. But yeah, it is in this one, strangely enough.

[Clara]

And I wasn't expecting that at all. I was just kind of expecting to have a low profile for the rest of my life because someone was kind of just peeking in. I didn't. I would never wish death upon anyone. And especially since, you know, like, I don't. Part of me don't even hold him responsible for what he did because I do feel for some reason that he was himself a victim in this story and that he is the one who suffered most. I don't think it's fair that I had to suffer at all. But I. Not that I had empathy towards him, but I. When I read that he had died, I. It took me a few days. It took for a few days for it to sink in where I just like started feeling more and more relieved and more and more free of thinking things and of saying things without like having a speakerphone put over my voice. And so I realized at that point that I had still like, had carried a lot of fear along with me through this whole thing. And it really did end when I learned of his death. So it's not that I was happy, but there is a liberation that comes with the fact that I know that he's not there to physically to harm me. And that he would never be able to harm me physically ever again was liberating. And I've been feeling a lot more at peace with this whole story for the past few weeks.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Mark thinks that Michael was not only possessed by an entity, he thinks that this entity killed him. What do you, what do you think of that? Yeah, what do you think of that?

[Clara]

Holy.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

That's what Mark thinks.

[Clara]

Yeah, I know. You know, I don't, I don't know if I believe in demons, but if I, I am quite open minded about his interpretation of the story. He was possessed by something, even if it was his own mind. Like this man was not in control of himself at all. In his first letter, he did say that he wasn't in control of himself anymore. He like explicitly said that he would never harm me, but that he wasn't in control of himself anymore. Judge just that's the beginning of a very terrifying story. Like, whether it's his story or anyone else's story, when they stop being in control of themselves, who is in control of them, you know? And then, like, do we see that demon as an entity or do we see it as like a chemical imbalance in his brain? I don't know, but that surely killed him, whatever imbalanced that was.

[Jack Wagner (Host)]

I was completely stunned after my interview with Mark, not only to learn that the stalker had died, which, by the way, I never even considered that as a potential possibility, but also how relentless Mark and his task force were in their investigation and pursuit of him. And in the case of Mark as a person, he was so different than I thought he would be. There was no cult or past friendship with the stalker or anything. It all started with a threatening social media message from a stranger, one that Mark seems to receive quite often and typically ignores. But this time, he decided not to ignore it. The way this story changed most for me is that originally this was about Clara being hunted, and she described feeling like prey during this saga that lasted over a year and began with just a momentary chant interaction. It turns out this whole time, the stalker pursuing Clara had a predator of his own, one that was even more relentless than him. And much like Clara's experience, that began with just a brief interaction as well. For me, the situation that once felt so tangled and chaotic suddenly felt terrifyingly simple and very ancient. Like, suddenly everyone fit into very old archetypes, including myself. And that versions of this have definitely played out over and over again throughout history and in nature. I think it's just that there is a very cold indifference to the way the world balances its scales sometimes. I, of course, fact checked Mark's description of the death and everything he said was true. It turns out he died about a year after his last message to Clara. He even died before my first interviews with her. But none of us knew it yet because his name was not included in the small articles about the incident. According to the reports, the cause of death was indeed listed as natural causes. Although it's worth noting that many different causes of death are considered natural. As far as Mark's belief that the stalker was possessed, I think I feel similar to Clara. It's very obvious that something was not right with this man's mind. Even if a court psychiatrist disagrees. Whether that is a literal or figurative possession, I certainly can't know for sure. And I'm also not sure how much it matters at a certain point because ultimately this man was not in control of himself and needed help. I did speak to the woman that we referred to as Teresa off the record and read some of the things the stalker sent her which were horrible. She actually holds the same opinion as Mark about the possession. In fact, I would say she is even more firm in those beliefs. She told me that the stalker even bragged about it to her and at one point said that he consciously opened himself up to being taken over by by entities. I was hoping to interview her for the show to find out more and let her explain all of this for herself, but she said that she does not want to open up the door to all of this. Once again, I did introduce her to Clara. I think they might finally speak for the first time soon and if there are any updates on all of this, I'll make a follow up episode. The last thing I'll say is that I just asked Clara and the objects are indeed still at her dad's house, but she promised that she'll be throwing them away very soon and with that I think we have finally reached the end of this very strange saga. I want to thank Clara for being willing to share this story with me. Also thank you to Mark Auburn for talking to me and of course the journalist Allison Ferreira. This has been the Stalker and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our producers are Theo Schaeffer, Theo Krantz, Haley Pearson and Nikki Kate Delgado. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by North Americans and Juice Jackal. Our artwork is by Cul de Sac Studios. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five star review and telling your friends about the show. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you can become a [e-mail] Otherworld Our social media is Otherworldpod. Thank you to the team at Odysee. Leah Rees, Dennis, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Eric Donnelly, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor and Hilary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odysee app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural or unexplained, you can send us your [e-mail]

[Mark Auburn (Esoteric Detective)]

SA.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Advertiser)]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

[Clara]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month

[Prime Obsession Advertiser]

Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[Clara]

See full [e-mail].