Otherworld – Interview with Hamilton Morris (September 2, 2025)
Brief Overview
Host Jack Wagner sits down with renowned chemist, writer, and filmmaker Hamilton Morris for a wide-ranging conversation about the intersection of chemistry, psychedelics, consciousness, and the unexplained. The pair explore the evolution of drug journalism, the nuances of reality and hallucination, the cross-cultural patterns of paranormal experiences, and Hamilton’s current scientific projects. Maintaining a skeptical yet open-minded tone, they discuss both the material and psychological impacts of drugs, the lure of the unknown, and the extraordinary variety of human perception.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Hamilton’s Identity and Career Trajectory
- Hamilton’s preferred title: Chemist over "host," as he finds the latter too passive (05:38).
- Transition from print to video: Early work at Vice capitalized on the shift to video, leading to vastly increased reach (08:03–10:04).
- Motivation: Shock at poor journalism on drugs and inequities witnessed during a court internship (10:20–12:04).
- Enduring curiosity: Hamilton’s interest in drugs began as far back as kindergarten, rooted in a fascination with chemical effects and societal reactions (14:37–15:13).
2. Nuanced View on Drug Use and Public Perception
- Sensationalism & mischaracterization: Frustrated by being seen as someone who simply “does drugs for a living,” noting most journalists lack nuanced understanding (10:20–14:19).
- First-hand experimentation: Enjoys both making and trying new drugs, emphasizing the thrill of synthesis as much as consumption (17:02–18:10).
- Chemistry as a hidden art: Finds the beauty and satisfaction of drug synthesis underappreciated and often obscured by gatekeeping within the field (19:26–23:23).
- Gateway into chemistry: Notes that a significant number of medicinal chemists were initially drawn to the field by a fascination with psychoactive substances, though many conceal this fact for professional reasons (22:03–23:23).
3. Challenges of Investigative Filmmaking
- Most difficult episodes: Virtually every episode of Hamilton's Pharmacopoeia was “absurdly difficult” to produce due to logistical, legal, and ethical obstacles. The “Quaalude episode” stands out for its complex and risky fieldwork (23:45–29:45).
- Surreal encounters: Notably, a miscommunication nearly landed him a job as a syndicate chemist (26:34).
- Preserving scientific detail: He prioritizes capturing authentic chemical processes on film, a rarity in mainstream media (23:45–29:45).
4. Personal Approach to Experimentation and Safety
- Cautious testing: Hamilton is meticulous about dosing and compound identity, favoring rigorous analysis and indigenous traditions with established safety records (36:32–39:34).
- Relinquishing control: In fieldwork, he sometimes relies on skilled practitioners, such as when participating in Bwiti Iboga rituals (37:47–39:34).
5. Materialism vs. Spiritual Impact
- Philosophy on reality and belief: Asserts that regardless of metaphysical truth, spiritual systems and rituals have profound real-world effects on individuals and societies (39:58–44:28).
- Quote: “Whether or not God exists is…irrelevant because it is clear that the idea of God has enormous effects.” (39:58)
- Symbolic power over literal accuracy: Rituals, myths, and psychedelic experiences shape perceptions and outcomes even if not “real” in a material sense (39:58–44:28).
6. Reality, Perception, and Hallucination
- Defining reality: Hamilton cites Kant: reality as phenomena (the world as perceived) vs. noumena (reality without perception) (49:21).
- Our senses provide a tiny, evolutionarily-adapted sliver of possible reality (49:21–52:59).
- Hallucinations explained: Shifts in perception ("maladaptive modeling of reality") can be chemically or physiologically induced, and aren’t always reducible to a single cause or neurochemical event (54:07–57:50).
- Taxonomy challenges: The classification of “psychedelic” is complex and subjective, balancing tendencies to lump or split drug effects (57:50–61:00).
7. Universal Experiences and Archetypes
- Patterns across hallucinations/paranormal reports: Discussed recurring motifs like the “Hat Man” in Benadryl-induced delirium and sleep paralysis, exploring memetic spread, evolutionary underpinnings, and cultural imprinting (62:26–68:48).
- Quote: “The first is that there's a memetic component where merely discussing the hat man promotes the hat man.” (63:48)
- Not all visions are archetypal: Sleep paralysis figures, the “nightmare” phenomenon, and the cross-cultural similarities raise questions about deeply rooted psychological or physiological mechanisms (74:56–82:53).
8. DMT, Machine Elves, and the Mapping of Inner Space
- DMT basics: A simple, fast-acting psychedelic, widely present in plants but not proven to exist in the human brain (83:39–87:06).
- Dispelling myths: No strong evidence of DMT being released at death or endogenously in humans (87:06–91:06).
- Machine elves & cultural feedback: The recurring DMT motif popularized by Terence McKenna may be part drug effect, part cultural suggestion (91:53–96:05).
- Andrew Gallimore’s research: Contemporary efforts to systematically map the DMT experience—uncertain if this is uncovering new realities or collating shared psychological landscapes (96:19–98:07).
9. Exploring the Unknown and Current Projects
- Philosophical motivation: Hamilton is driven by curiosity—seeking new states, new compounds, and the unexpected potentialities of chemistry (98:41–102:26).
- Tellurium project: Attempting to introduce the rare element tellurium into a psychedelic compound to probe uncharted chemical/psychological territory (110:44–115:25).
- Risk: Exposure can cause a persistent garlic odor in the body; the lab was visited by police after complaints about the smell (114:43–115:25).
- Psychedelics & COVID: Reports that psychedelics may restore sense of smell post-COVID, though unstudied scientifically (116:31–117:27).
- Sharing the science: Ongoing research and documentaries are shared via Patreon and YouTube (117:48–118:03).
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On public perception of his work:
“There’s an incentive…nothing wrong with doing drugs and I suppose even doing drugs for a living, but that’s not what I was doing. I was covering drug related things, and sometimes I use drugs as part of the story. But…that article then became like a very popular characterization.” (10:20) -
On the “Hat Man” phenomenon:
“The first is that there's a memetic component where merely discussing the hat man promotes the hat man.” (63:48)
“It's not as if we were being preyed upon by hat men throughout our evolution.” (67:37) -
On spiritual beliefs:
“I am a materialist and do not believe in the spiritual…but it is an indisputable fact that these beliefs have implications for the material world.” (39:58)
“Someone doesn’t have to believe in vampires to be afraid during a vampire movie.” (39:58) -
On synthesizing new drugs:
“I actually enjoy making drugs more than taking them. In many instances. There’s a huge satisfaction in the process of constructing these molecules.” (17:02–18:10) -
On the risk of new compounds:
“There was a compound…if they're not, I actually think that's one of the…the most…valuable piece of information: would you do this drug again? And if so, would you take the same dose, a higher dose, a lower dose?” (104:37) -
On cross-cultural reality:
“It is an absolutely minuscule portion of the world that we see. And conceivably we could see the world in an infinite number of other ways… birds that are capable of detecting magnetic fields as a sense. This is an established phenomenon.” (49:21–53:54)
Important Timestamps
- 05:29 – How Hamilton prefers to be credited and his self-perception
- 10:20 – Early career influences (internship in a courthouse; motivation to improve drug journalism)
- 14:37 – Childhood roots of interest in drugs and chemical effects
- 23:45 – The challenges and close calls in making Hamilton’s Pharmacopoeia, particularly the Quaalude episode
- 39:58 – Approach to materialism, spirituality, and the psychological impacts of ritual
- 49:21 – Defining reality using Kantian framework; perceptions as evolved hallucinations
- 54:07 – The difficulty of categorizing hallucinations and the subjective nature of “psychedelics”
- 63:48 – Discussion of memetic theory with “the Hat Man”
- 74:56 – Hmong refugee deaths and cross-cultural consistency in sleep paralysis entities
- 83:39 – DMT’s chemistry, misconceptions, and the origins of “machine elves”
- 110:44 – Current research with tellurium-containing psychedelics and the unexpected challenges
Flow and Tone
Jack Wagner maintains a journalistic curiosity and gentle skepticism, consistently drawing out Hamilton’s methodological rigor, humor, and willingness to embrace ambiguity. Hamilton’s responses blend technical expertise with underlying wonder and caution. Both return frequently to the limits of current knowledge, the oddities of perception, and the interplay between personal experience, cultural context, and material reality.
Where to Learn More / Follow Hamilton Morris
- Patreon: patreon.com/hamiltonmorris
- YouTube: youtube.com/hamiltonmorris
- Hamilton’s Podcast: Linked via his Patreon
This summary covers the main content and spirit of the episode, highlighting key discussions, memorable quotes, and important timestamps for easy navigation and deeper appreciation.