Otherworld: Interview with Susannah Cahalan

Release Date: June 23, 2025

In this compelling episode of Otherworld, host Jack Wagner sits down with acclaimed journalist and author Susannah Cahalan. Known for her riveting memoir Brain on Fire, which details her intense struggle with a rare autoimmune disease, Cahalan shares her personal journey through psychosis, recovery, and her latest exploration into the enigmatic life of Rosemary Leary in her new book, The Acid Queen.

Introduction to Susannah Cahalan

Jack Wagner opens the conversation by welcoming Susannah Cahalan, expressing his admiration for her work and highlighting her contributions to the understanding of mental health and consciousness.

Notable Quote:

[06:28] Susannah Cahalan: "Thank you for having me. I got to tell you that I'm a huge fan, but now I can tell you here that I really love your show, so it's really fun and exciting to be here."

Journey Through Brain on Fire

Cahalan delves into her first book, Brain on Fire, recounting her unexpected descent into severe psychosis at the age of 24. She describes the initial flu-like symptoms that rapidly escalated into hallucinations, paranoia, and delusions, leading to her hospitalization.

Notable Quote:

[08:15] Susannah Cahalan: "I stopped eating, I stopped sleeping. I was starting to hear voices. I didn't see things as much. So I did have this experience."

Misdiagnoses and the Path to Recovery

She discusses the series of misdiagnoses she received, including schizophrenia and mononucleosis, before finally being diagnosed with Anti NMDA Receptor Autoimmune Encephalitis. Cahalan emphasizes the importance of accurate medical diagnosis and the challenges of navigating the healthcare system during a mental health crisis.

Notable Quote:

[09:04] Susannah Cahalan: "I was the 217th person in the world to be diagnosed with this."

Understanding Psychosis Beyond Stereotypes

Cahalan challenges common misconceptions about psychosis, arguing that severe mental health experiences like hers are often misunderstood or dismissed as mere "craziness." She advocates for a more nuanced understanding that distinguishes between psychiatric disorders and autoimmune conditions affecting the brain.

Notable Quote:

[12:10] Susannah Cahalan: "There are real serious things that happen in psychosis that are. That sometimes can't just be waved away for someone being crazy."

Impact on Personal and Professional Life

Reflecting on her recovery, Cahalan shares how the experience profoundly influenced her interest in psychology and the human mind, leading to her subsequent books. She highlights the intersection of her personal struggles with her professional pursuits, emphasizing the importance of storytelling in understanding and healing.

Notable Quote:

[22:33] Susannah Cahalan: "Writing about it, like, gave me an artificial sense of control, but still a sense of control about the past because I had imposed a narrative about this chaos."

Exploring The Acid Queen: Rosemary Leary's Story

Transitioning to her latest work, Cahalan introduces Rosemary Leary, the wife of psychedelic pioneer Timothy Leary. She explains how Rosemary played a pivotal yet often unrecognized role in the psychedelic movement of the 1960s, shaping Timothy's public persona and contributing significantly to their joint ventures.

Notable Quote:

[55:08] Susannah Cahalan: "Rosemary was live. Like, Rosemary was like the right hand woman throughout this whole thing, and she."

Synchronicities and Creative Processes

Cahalan discusses the series of synchronicities that led her to write The Acid Queen. From discovering a dress inspired by Rosemary to finding symbolic images in unexpected places, she illustrates how interconnected events guided her research and storytelling.

Notable Quote:

[36:47] Susannah Cahalan: "What are the chances of that happening? And things like that kept happening."

Rosemary Leary: A Life of Influence and Mystery

Delving deeper, Cahalan paints a vivid picture of Rosemary's life, including her escape from an abusive relationship, her involvement with Timothy Leary's commune at Millbrook, and their tumultuous interactions with organizations like the Black Panthers. She highlights Rosemary's resilience and integrity, contrasting it with Timothy's more controversial actions.

Notable Quote:

[62:15] Susannah Cahalan: "Rosemary was live. Like, Rosemary was like the right hand woman throughout this whole thing, and she."

The Complex Dynamics Between Timothy and Rosemary

The conversation explores the intricate relationship between Timothy and Rosemary Leary, including their multiple prison escapes, interactions with political radicals, and the eventual fallout that led to Rosemary living underground for 24 years. Cahalan underscores the personal sacrifices and untold stories behind their public personas.

Notable Quote:

[73:20] Susannah Cahalan: "It's wild. It's wild."

Conclusion and Further Engagement

As the interview wraps up, Cahalan encourages listeners to read The Acid Queen for a deeper understanding of Rosemary Leary's life and contributions. She also mentions upcoming events, such as her talk at the Lilydale symposium, inviting listeners to engage further with her work and the broader conversations around consciousness and the paranormal.

Notable Quote:

[76:15] Susannah Cahalan: "It's just a story that gets wilder and wilder."

Key Takeaways:

• Personal Resilience: Cahalan's journey through a severe mental health crisis underscores the importance of resilience and accurate medical diagnosis.

• Challenging Misconceptions: The interview highlights the need to differentiate between psychiatric disorders and other medical conditions that can mimic psychological symptoms.

• Hidden Figures in History: The Acid Queen sheds light on Rosemary Leary's significant yet overlooked role in the psychedelic movement, emphasizing the contributions of women behind prominent figures.

• Synchronicity in Storytelling: Cahalan's experiences with synchronicities illustrate the interconnectedness of events and their influence on creative processes.

Further Resources:

• Susannah Cahalan's Website: susannahcahalan.com

• Lilydale Symposium: Attend Cahalan's talk on Brain on Fire experiences. More details available at Lilydale Events.

• Patreon Bonus Episodes: For an extended conversation with Susannah, visit patreon.com/otherworld.

This interview offers an engaging exploration of Susannah Cahalan's personal struggles, her insightful writings, and the untold stories of influential figures in the psychedelic movement. Whether you're familiar with her work or discovering it for the first time, this episode provides valuable perspectives on mental health, consciousness, and the hidden narratives that shape our understanding of the paranormal.