Our Common Nature – “Hawai‘i: Yo-Yo Ma on Moloka‘i”

Podcast: Our Common Nature, WNYC
Episode Air Date: November 12, 2025
Host: Ana Gonzalez
Special Guest: Yo-Yo Ma
Featured Voices: Mikiala Pescaia, Bernard Punikaya (archival), Anwei Skinsnes Law

Episode Overview

In this deeply moving episode, host Ana Gonzalez and cellist Yo-Yo Ma travel to Moloka‘i, Hawaii, exploring the island’s unique connection between land, memory, and music. Through personal stories, ancestral rituals, and performances under sacred trees and at the site of a former leprosy colony, the episode examines “mana”—the innate spiritual energy of Moloka‘i—and how communities heal, remember, and reclaim dignity through music and land.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Moloka‘i and the Power of Mana

• Mana is described as the unique, indestructible life force or energy present within the land and people of Hawaii.

  • “That’s mana right there.” —Mikiala Pescaia [01:46]

• Mana is believed to be absorbed and returned to the land, surviving even after death.

  • “Death cannot take [mana] away from us. It takes the body away, but the other things still exist.” —Mikiala Pescaia [04:32]

• Moloka‘i’s Uniqueness: Less touched by tourism, it retains deep ancestral ties and distinct traditions. Residents often live on ancestral lands, valuing continuity and rootedness.

  • “We don’t have any stoplights. We fish and farm... A lot of families live in the same place or even in the same house that their parents grew up in...” —Mikiala Pescaia [05:19]
  • Ana describes the drive through Moloka‘i with a sense of awe and humility facing its wild, unpredictable natural forces. [02:58–04:11]

2. Naming and Honoring the Natural World

• Every natural phenomenon has a name—winds, rains, beaches—reflecting generations of careful observation.

  • “Every rain has a name. Every mountain, every hill, every wind has a name...” —Mikiala Pescaia [06:42]

• The Kukui Trees and the story of Lanikaula:

  • A revered leader whose mana was coveted even after death. His hidden burial spot—a sacred grove of kukui (candlenut) trees—becomes a living monument to the continued energy of ancestors.
  • “That which is extracted from this aina should be returned to this aina.” —Mikiala Pescaia [07:29]
  • “If [the trees’] roots are touching his bones, then that energy is coming up through them, out into the leaves.” —Mikiala Pescaia [08:31]

• Ceremony at the Grove:

  • Ana, Yo-Yo Ma, and others participate in a ceremony beneath the kukui trees—including a kava (ava) drinking ritual (unrecorded)—underscoring the reverence for place and ancestry. [09:55]

3. Music as Connection: Yo-Yo Ma Plays for Moloka‘i

• Yo-Yo Ma plays cello for the group, choosing a song meaningful to the community:

  • “This is not a stage.” —Yo-Yo Ma [10:21]
  • “A song may be about a bird, but kind of a sacred bird. Because for people that have experienced genocide, that becomes a symbol of life for them.” —Yo-Yo Ma [10:36]

• The gathering becomes a moment of communal healing and remembrance; Ana is moved by the resonance of the cello intermingled with the mana of people and place. [11:25]

4. Kalaupapa and the Legacy of Separation

• History: Kalaupapa Peninsula was where thousands with Hansen’s disease (“leprosy”) were exiled, isolated from their families as mandated by law from 1865.

  • “...since 1865, anyone who showed symptoms of it were separated from their families by the Hawaiian Board of Health and sent away.” —Ana Gonzalez [18:22]

• Bernard Punikaya’s Story:

  • Contracted Hansen’s disease as a child; forcibly removed from his family at 6.5 years old. [17:45]
  • Hospital and isolation brought profound loneliness: “At night the reality sinks in and the loneliness is really very strong. And I used to cry a lot at night.” —Bernard Punikaya [19:34]
  • Eventually sent to Kalaupapa at age 11 during WWII, after surviving the attack on Pearl Harbor. The island’s fearsome reputation gives way to surprising warmth and community.
    • “Instead of blood on the walls and scary sick people, Bernard found beaches, birds, monk seals, lava rocks. He found other kids to play with... aunties and uncles who invited him over for dinner...” —Ana Gonzalez [24:54]
  • Music plays a crucial role in the community’s spirit; Bernard sings, plays autoharp, participates in parties, and feels “free” compared to the hospital. [25:39]
  • Advocacy: Bernard led efforts to obtain new treatments and later to challenge archaic isolation laws.
    • “It was about 104 years we had of isolation to realize that our laws were so archaic and so for medieval times almost... And yet they still live here...” —Bernard Punikaya [33:09]
  • The “miracle drugs” arrive, changing lives and ending new patient isolation. [27:44]

5. Memory, Advocacy, and Dignity

• Bernard becomes a symbol of resilience—fighting for patient rights and dignity, protecting their home in the face of eviction.
  • “We dare to challenge the state and say, no, we won’t go. We will not go. You know, Halemu Halo is our home. You may not do with us as you have been doing for the last hundred plus years.” —Bernard Punikaya [35:02]
• Bernard’s song, “Where Birds Never Fly,” captures longing for home and loss wrought by modernity:

  • “Got up this morning and looked around me to see the beauty of my Hawaii Took us a little walk into the town Pain and sorrow are the things I found. Walls of concrete reaching to the sky Higher and higher.” —Bernard Punikaya [34:03]

  • Yo-Yo Ma reacts:
    “He’s like a bard. I am now gonna tell you the story of my life. This is what’s happened over decades, and you’re left to live with it.” —Yo-Yo Ma [36:35]

6. Commemoration, Loss, and Living Memorials

• Today, Kalaupapa is both a historic site and a living community; only a couple of original patients remain.

  • “Out of the 8,000 people who were forced to come to Kalaupapa, these two men are the sole survivors.” —Ana Gonzalez [41:50]

• Debates continue about how to commemorate patients—whether to inscribe all names on a public memorial, or to remember more intimately.

  • “As a descendant of a patient... no, we don’t want his name on that.” —Mikiala Pescaia [42:22]
  • “If we know stories like, you used to come to this beach and go fishing all the time, go and stand in the water there and have a moment...” —Mikiala Pescaia [43:06]

• The idea that mana remains, that singing, chanting, and visiting places can reestablish bonds with ancestors:

  • “We chant, we sing to them, we dance. I just talk to them all the time. I feel like they’re always here.” —Mikiala Pescaia [43:20]

• Yo-Yo Ma reflects on energy and ancestry:

  • “Energy is never destroyed. So if this were true, it means that the energy of our ancestors... is not gone. So here’s a way to call them through music.” —Yo-Yo Ma [44:12]

7. Episode Finale: Musical Tribute at Papaloa Cemetery

• Yo-Yo Ma performs at the Papaloa cemetery, honoring those who died at Kalaupapa and especially Bernard.

  • “I thank you for allowing our presence, my presence, to be here to honor and to pay respects for all the people that have been part of this community.” —Yo-Yo Ma [40:32]
  • Bernard’s resting place, along with countless others, is a site of remembrance, with some headstones lost to time and tides.

• Ana notes the call of birds and the ocean—suggesting Bernard and all the departed are still present, their mana and stories resonating through land, song, and spirit. [45:03–45:44]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Dignity is inherent in every human being. It’s not something someone gives you. It is inherent in you.” —Bernard Punikaya (quote relayed by interviewer) [00:38]
• “This is not a stage.” —Yo-Yo Ma [10:21]
• “Every time you eat something, you take the mana of that plant in... and then you convert it into the acts and words that you put out.” —Mikiala Pescaia [04:11]
• “We dare to challenge the state and say, no, we won’t go. We will not go. You know, Halemu Halo is our home.” —Bernard Punikaya [35:02]
• “He’s like a bard... I am now gonna tell you the story of my life.” —Yo-Yo Ma [36:35]
• “Energy is never destroyed. So if this were true, it means that the energy of our ancestors... is not gone. So here’s a way to call them through music.” —Yo-Yo Ma [44:12]

Important Timestamps

• 00:11–01:05: Bernard Punikaya’s voice/song at episode start
• 01:16–07:13: Mikiala Pescaia on Moloka‘i culture, mana, tradition
• 09:55–11:25: Avacircle ceremony and Yo-Yo Ma performance in the kukui grove
• 15:15–24:54: Story of Kalaupapa, forced exile, Bernard’s early years
• 27:44–28:05: Arrival of “miracle drugs” and hope at Kalaupapa
• 33:09–36:03: Bernard’s advocacy, legal change, and song “Where Birds Never Fly”
• 40:13–41:50: Bernard’s burial and Yo-Yo Ma’s musical tribute at Papaloa Cemetery
• 44:12–46:07: Reflections on energy, music, and remembrance
• Throughout: Thread of music, chanting, and song as connective tissue to place and people

Tone & Style

The episode blends reverence, warmth, and grief with celebration—mirroring the resilient, soulful character of Moloka‘i and its people. Ana Gonzalez’s narration is empathetic and searching, Yo-Yo Ma’s presence is humble and open, and the voices of Bernard and Mikiala add authenticity and heart.

Summary Takeaway

“Hawai‘i: Yo-Yo Ma on Moloka‘i” is a profound meditation on exile and belonging, grief and resilience, and the ways music and ritual keep ancestral memory alive. It calls listeners to honor not only the stories and suffering of the past but the ongoing presence—“mana”—of those who came before, heard and felt through the land and song.