← Outrage Overload: Rethinking politics, division, and media
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A
I've been meaning to incorporate more street outrage conversations into the podcast. As you may know, the idea with street outrage segments is to bring the visceral to the academic. In regular episodes, we hear from experts about various aspects of the science of outrage, inner politics and culture. Street outrage is where we hear from real people about how outrage and the outrage machine shows up in their lives. These bonus street outrage episodes will be in addition to the regular episodes with featured guests. If they're not your cup of tea and you just want to stick with the regular outrage overload format with experts from various backgrounds, you can always skip over these street outrage bonus episodes and never miss anything in terms of the regular episodes which continue to come out regularly every couple of weeks. So with that, get ready for a different format. In this episode I plan to do more episodes like this. So give me your feedback on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook. Outrage overload or email outrageoverloadmail.com okay, let's start the show. Welcome to Outrage Overload, a science podcast about outrage and lowering the temperature. This is a bonus street outrage episode with the unfiltered Trio. You know, I was really, I thought it was really cool when I the first sentence out of your description on your podcast, you know, totally sort of trapped me in, where you say, do you often find it difficult to voice your opinions and express yourself freely due to fear of being constantly corrected and filtered? And you know, that just rang so true with what I've seen both, both what I've learned sort of with, from the conversation I've had with scientists and researchers and sort of the experts, but even more so with my conversations with what I call kind of these men on the street. So I'm kind of the man on the street and I interview just kind of regular people and I, and I talk to them about, you know, social media usage and things like that and news media, other media usage and stuff like that. And it's very non partisan and I don't, you know, go in and try to change their mind. I just want to hear where they're coming from. And you know, it's funny that, you know, and that's been a huge journey for me. Like I started doing that because as research for the podcast, like before I even knew I was going to do a podcast, I was kind of just researching this topic of kind of outrage and all that and what do people think about it and if there was even something here to talk about. And so that's why I started doing that. And then it was like a huge Wake up call. Because I wanted to talk to people across this political spectrum. In other words, people didn't necessarily were on the same page as I was. I wanted to just hear from them, like, what do they have to say? And what was. And it caused me to basically pause for a. It was so enlightening for me. I had to like, pause for a while and say, okay, there's. There's a world here. I gotta stop and think about this. But what made me really circle circling back to what you say in your, in your opening there about, you know, are you concerned about, you know, your fear of constantly being corrected and filtered? What I found in those talks, Because I just listen and I don't push back. I don't try to change anybody's mind. I just listen to what they say. People were like, wait, we're not going to fight, you know, and they would suddenly, like, really open up and really tell talk about stuff that they probably don't talk about. And. Well, I know they don't because they would talk about how they don't talk about that with anybody. And in some of those conversations, they were conversations folks that I knew well. And we decided to have this talk and it's. And I learned about stuff that I've known these people for years and I never learned some of these things because we were afraid to have those conversations. Right. So they wouldn't go there. But when they, you know, when we knew that we weren't going to fight, we were just going to listen, you know, you could then understand the other side. And so that, that really attracted me to what you're talking about in your podcast. That. And I sense that a lot. I mean, I get people, they get really emotional about, you know, they talk about how there's these issues and I want to talk about it, but I know I can. I'm afraid to talk about it for what, you know, for what might happen, how, you know, might change people's. They might change people might change their mind about me, things like that. So, you know, and it's really isolating and people get it, like brings a depression. It can bring depression and other things about. Because you feel isolated that you can't have these conversations. So I thought that was great. So, I mean, I think you're really doing a good thing. Thing there.
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B
Thank you.
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C
Yes, I appreciate it.
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A
So, you know, I think it's a perfect, It's a perfect fit for what we talk about on this podcast as well. Because like I said, I've had experts kind of talk about that and, you know, this idea of, you know, the bubbles and filter, you know, and sorting bubbles.
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B
Yeah. This kind of like a. There's kind of like a saying that Loose likes to say, and it's kind of. It's kind of like something that we. That I actually think about when I'm having these conversations with the ladies and. Go ahead. Go ahead and tell them what it is.
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C
Oh, the intellectual. In order to have an intellectual conversation, you have to run the risk of being offended and also to offend.
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B
Right. So a lot of times we. We are afraid to offend someone, but at the same time, that hinders us from having an intellectual conversation and actually getting to the core of what the issue is and being able to see the other side. Right. Have compassion and empathy for the other side of what you already believe. And with our podcast, that. That literally is. The premise of our podcast is kind of like we want. We have our three different perspectives, and we want everyone to see that there are multiple perspectives and even more than three perspectives, because I think in psychology, it's like 12, if I'm not mistaken, but. But that we can all. We can still be successful and come together and come to terms like, okay, you believe this. I. I believe this. And you know what? At the end of the day, we're all trying to do the same thing.
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A
Yeah. And I think people are so used to. They're just, like, expecting a fight. You know what I mean? They're kind of expecting to be attacked, so it's like a shock when they aren't attacked. You know what I mean? And you actually can have a conversation because. And I think that's another reason why, of course, they're very reluctant to say anything because obviously they've, you know, had that experience, so they get defensive. And I think you see this online in particular, where people are almost kind of reading between the lines and sort of expecting kind of a Reading a negative messaging into things, and then it kind of can escalate. I think when it's in person, that can be waylaid a little bit. But, you know, I think we're just looking for it. Almost like we're just expecting to be attacked, and we're just, like, on edge. We're just like, I'm ready, man. I got my punches ready. I'm gonna counter punch in a second here mode. Yeah. Yeah, very much so. And you kind of get it. Just. I think the online reason is one reason, too, because. But I think this carries into offline, too. You see it maybe not to the Same level. But, you know, people will say something at a party or coffee shop, and suddenly three people jump all over them, you know, And I was talking to Yevgeny Simkin, who's like, he's a journalist, and, you know, he was talking about. And I don't know if he's right, but he was saying that sort of this idea of safe spaces, you know, started to kind of in a different definition of a lot of people now use safe spaces as a place where you don't have to worry somebody's going to say something that offends you. Right. And he was saying the original use was almost the opposite. Like, this was a place where you could say things that would offend people and you wouldn't necessarily be attacked for it. You know, that they would try to be a sort of call you in kind of idea rather than a call you out kind of idea. And I don't know if that's right, but I like that thinking that, you know, that you can have a safe space by that definition. Like, this is a place where it's going to be okay to say the thing you're going to say, and somebody might be offended, but let's pass through that. Let's get through that kind of thing, which we don't have much experience with, you know?
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B
Yeah, absolutely. And, like, if. If anyone listens to our podcast, you can tell, like, at points the conversation might get heated, Right? It might seem like it gets heated, right? Because we're both passionate about our opinions and what we believe, what we perceive the world to be, right? But then we do this thing where towards the end, it's kind of like, okay. Huh? Okay, I see your side. And after you get over that kind of, like, I want to say, like, conflict resolution, right? You get through the conflict, you resolve it, and then there's just like, this beauty that happens at the end where you're just like, oh, I see your side. I see you as human, too. And that's. That's just. I love the way that you said the. Your. I forgot, Yevgeny, if I'm not.
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A
Oh, yeah. Evgeny Simkin.
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B
Yeah, right. I love the way he framed it, too, because it's kind of like nowadays, like you said, everyone's ready on the defense and even me. Sometimes I catch myself. I'm like, yeah, okay, what are you gonna say? What. What, you know, what role you play in this. And. And just to be open and honest with, like, um. Be open to hearing, like, a difference of opinion, I think is important.
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A
Yeah. Oh, and it's hard sometimes, right, because you sort of, like I said, you kind of get geared up for a fight sometimes.
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B
Oh, yeah. Excuse me.
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A
It's also challenging. You know, it's one of those things that if you do get this counter position and you actually listen to it, you know, it kind of. It's challenge. It's difficult, right, because it sort of throws you off. It's like, I don't want to hear that because I liked what I already thought. Want to hear this other side that might make me have to think about whether I'm right or wrong, you know, and so that it's a lot of work to do that I should say, you know, it's. In some ways, it's a little bit counter to our natural psychology, right? You have to really engage kind of the front part of your brain to,
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B
you know, I mean, nowadays. Because before, back in history, right, they would go at it, right? And then they'll be like, okay, now what are we going to do to resolve this issue? You know, nowadays, I think that that has changed. Now it's like, okay, I don't want to offend. Well, well, no, this is how we. Sharing your perspectives and whatever. This is how we change the world, right? We're not going to all be Kumbaya and understand the world the same way, but we have to challenge each other. So this way we're like, okay, well, if I don't challenge you, then you think you're right. If you don't challenge me, then I think that I'm right. Meanwhile, there's no right and wrong. Right? We just have to keep challenging those. Those different narratives so we can get to a point where it's like, okay, now we can resolve this. You know, you. You win and I win. We both win because we've. We've battled it out and we're coming to the middle, you know, and we're understanding each other a lot better.
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A
Well, and even if we don't reach a middle, if we at least get to a point where we accept each other as human and say, well, we can't. You know, you have your place, I have my place. And we kind of disagree, but I can see, you know, that you're still a human being and, you know, you'd probably pull me out of a burning car. You know, it's not like you're an evil person that wants to destroy the world. We both kind of want a lot of the same things. We just kind of maybe want to come at it differently. And I think you don't always have to totally agree or even completely find a compromised position. You might still hold to your position, but at least see the other person as human, which is where a lot of our problems are now. It's like we can't disagree without also saying, not only do I disagree, but this other person is evil.
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B
And that's where the outrage comes in, Right?
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A
Exactly, exactly. Because that's that emotion that triggers it. I mean, one nice thing is to talk about the. I was talking about how some of this is kind of counter to our evolutionary psychology. Some of it's actually there, too. Actually part of it, too, because what you were just saying about collective consensus, that is part of our survival. Like, that's one reason why humans have done so well, because, you know, we did group up into groups and we let the group kind of. The group sort of could bounce off. And usually, you know, science has shown or psychology has shown that usually if you have a problem and you get five people from the group to sort of talk about the problem, honestly, you do arrive at the right answer. You know, you do arrive at a good answer. You know, it's when you get tribal and you refuse to change your mind, all that stuff that it kind of breaks down. But the reality is one person, you know, and they've tested this with fairly simple kind of math things, right? That, you know, your intuition with this little math thing is you just guess this guess, and then you sit in a group and talk about it with five people or whatever. And almost all the time, the one that kind of has it right or two that have it right will kind of explain why they came to that answer. It's like, here's how the math works and why this way is probably right. And you finally go, oh, yeah, okay, that makes sense. Because, you know, and you did that in the group, and you might not have done that if you weren't. Weren't in that group. So we do know that. That, you know, that we do perform better when we allow. Are open, like you said, are open to hearing other people's ideas. And again, we don't always have to come to the same conclusion at the end, but, you know, at least we can have that. That conversation and not decide the other person is evil.
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B
Yeah, absolutely.
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A
You know, one thing I was going to throw onto that, though, as a caveat, I do want to say, like, when we get into these. If you get into these contentious conversations, I know that the. We've sort of seen the science has sort of shown that, you know, you don't want that to be your first reaction, you know, if you go into a room with someone you've never met, like, like I think you know, the three of you know each other pretty well. So you already have like that baseline of trust, you know, And I mean actually. Oh, really?
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B
Actually, yeah.
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A
So interesting.
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B
Me and Luz actually are very close. We've known each other for years. But our third, Maria, who is not here, which, you know, maybe some other time, she's actually. We did this podcast on a whim, right. We were at the bar, you know, talking, having some drinks, right. It was one of those nights. And she was like, oh, I had a podcast before. I was like, so did I, I had a podcast. But it was, eh. So then she was like, why don't
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C
we do a podcast together? And we were like, yeah.
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B
And that's how it started. So Maria is one of our newest members to our friends, right. And we don't know her that well. And through this journey we're getting to know her and she's getting to know us. So it's is kind of pretty interesting. And me and her have opposite views. Like most of the time we have. She thinks we have opposite views, but I think that I just say it in a different way.
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A
Interesting, because what I was going to say was that, you know, if you sort of throw two people into a room that kind of their, their first interaction is, you know, maybe some hot button political thing that often can be not necessarily the right way to do it because now you only know them with this ideology presentation that they have. Right? That's kind of your only. So it's often nice to first have some sort of non political, non contentious kind of engagement. Like no, no, go have a few drinks together or go pool or we
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C
have more than once.
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A
Yeah, you know, exactly. I mean, get to know a person. Like if you're both playing, we talked about video games. If you're both playing a video game you like, you know, for a while before any of this ideology comes up, you've already sort of started to establish some affect for that person. You know, you sort of, you know, you sort of appreciate that they're fun and you like them and that kind of stuff. So now when that political stuff comes out, you know, we're more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt, you know, and see them as humans and stuff. So I will say that, that you don't, you don't always want your first interaction with someone. We're just going to jump in and talk politics. It's nice if you first have maybe some non. They call it sort of cross cutting interaction. Right. So some kind of an interaction that's non. Non political.
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B
Right. That actually reminds me of the. I think it's a psychology thing too where it's kind of like the sandwich. If you're trying to have a hard conversation with someone, first you tell them something nice and then you give them the hard like what you really want to say and then you end it off on a nice note. So it's kind of like the same concept.
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C
I gotta learn that one.
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A
Yeah, well, I mean that is very true though. I mean one of the many of the experts, you know, have come back to them. Like a lot of the stuff that ends up working actually is a lot of it sounds kind of cliche and so yeah, that can't be right. But it actually can be pretty helpful. Like you said, even just, even just the mental process of trying to find something nice. Even if you don't end up saying finding that many nice things to say, even if you try that exercise of finding something nice that actually helps you to humanize that other person. And psychology has shown that your brain actually now just the exercise of trying to find and almost always you can find something nice to say about somebody. So you can almost do it.
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B
But David, you have beautiful blonde hair.
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Yeah, exactly. So you can almost always find something. You know, you can always go, you, you're, you're often on time, something. Right. Almost always find something nice to say it's not, you know, nice car.
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C
A really nice car.
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A
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I love your smile. That kind of thing. Right. You can almost always find something. But anyway, even just the process of doing it does help. Like as cliche as that sounds, your, your brain will, you won't even maybe know that's happening, but it'll make you have a better affect towards them and more likely to humanize them or less likely to dehumanize them. So I wanted to bring up something that is a topic out there that I wanted to just get everybody's as many, you know, everyone's opinion on except mine because I don't like to drop my opinion.
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C
But make sure you start off with something nice first.
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A
Well, I mean if I haven't said enough nice about you and your podcast and what you were doing, I want to reiterate that. But it's also just been a pleasure to speaking. Speaking with both of you and I really appreciate, appreciate you making the time.
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B
Thank you.
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A
But one thing that, you know, I'm particularly interested in right now is how people are using this term woke. You know, it's really being thrown around in political dialogue a lot now and political messaging and stuff, you know, and you see things. The woke mob, the cancel culture. And you've kind of got both sides using this term in different ways and meaning different things by it. So, you know, I would love to hear, you know, forgetting what any dictionary definition is. I want to know, you know, how people actually perceive it. Like, you know, what do they see or how does it make them feel? You know, and for instance, my sort of trigger question here, I was thinking about, because I think it's something that he tried to make a very contentious statement. Like, I want to know, like, whether you're on the left or right. Like, what do you hear when Ron DeSantis says, you know, Florida is where woke goes to die? I mean, do you like it? Do you hate it? And if so, you know, sort of why. So who wants to start?
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B
I know loose can start because I've been talking a lot.
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C
Oh, my God. I mean, when I hear the word woke, I'll be honest with you. I'm just in a place right now that I. At least to me in my perspective of things, it's like people now, they feel like if they, you know, say something that's unconventional. I'm a woke person. You know, if I think that whatever thought I have and I decided to, you know, just kind of put it out there, it makes me a woke person. So if 80 says no to, you know, to the color blue, and then another 10% says maybe, and then you have the other 10% that says, yes, the color blue, those 10%, like, I'm woke because now, you know, I kind of think differently than the majority. I think people just throw that term around just. Just to kind of just throw it out. And when I hear about the Santi, oh, my God, I can't have a lot to say about him. But when he says that, I think he just wants. At least in my opinion, when he says that, he's just. He's just trying to rattle people, to be honest with you. He's just trying to rattle people. He's just trying to be like, no, this. You come to Florida, and Florida is going to be how we used to be. However, that was, you know, before the war came around or whatever. So.
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A
So you see a lot of it as kind of a signaling a little bit like people that use woke want to. Want to sort of play the woke card. Look, I'm Woke. See, guys, you know, you think something like that.
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C
Social media. I see, like, parents who are woke supposedly, you know, like, oh, I'm a woke parent. Because, you know, they set their. Their child who's like three years old, and their child says, I'm, you know, I'm a girl instead of a boy. So they'd be like, oh, I'm a woke parent. And it's like, okay, sure. That's what you want to call it. That's what you think you're going to be. I think just. People just use any kind of word just to use it, to be quite honest. We actually realize what it means or what it does or whatever.
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A
Well, that's one of the biggest things that I, you know, you. That's why I kind of want to ask, like, how do people feel? How do people see it when they hear it? Like, what are they thinking of when they see. And I don't think it's the same. I think different people using the term probably sends kind of different messages. So it kind of depends on the context a little bit. And that's why the people that. I ask some people this question and they say, well, look, it's super easy because here's the dictionary definition. That's what it means. It's like. And I, you know, like I said, I don't usually push back, but I mean, the reality is. But that's not what it means because that's not what people think it means. And perception is reality. Right?
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B
Yeah.
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A
So, Stephanie, what. What, what, what thoughts? Do you have any feels on this?
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B
Yeah, of course. So let's see, where can I start? So woke. Remember me as a dad? I think I know I could kind of like get into, like, this deep.
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A
Go for it. We got plenty of time.
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B
So. So for me, the word woke up, I think it signals more of a change. Right. When I hear the word, I was like, okay, a change from the normal narrative. Right? But of course, with any word that people use, it gets. Tends to be overused and the power of that word loses its meaning. Right? So the word woke, to me now, it. People are just using it to signal that they. They're at least to signal that they are in opposition. Right. In opposition of specifically the conservative narrative. Right. Because technically, typically. Sorry, not technically, typically, when the word is used. Is used in. In more liberal. Liberal spaces. Right. Because conservatives or the right.
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A
Right.
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B
The left versus the right. The right. Anytime you speak to somebody from the right and you say woke, they get offended by it. Right. And versus the left, where they were like, you know, they'll cheer you on in a sense. Right. So that's kind of like where my mind goes with that. And as far as Ron DeSantis, again, I agree with, I agree with Loose. He's just, since he, for me, since he sees that people get all rattled, right. Like she said, rattling the cage. When you hear the word woke, he's using that as to. He's using that to get followers. He's using that to get people on his side, especially, like, you know, people on the, on the right, because those are his constituents. Right. So. But I also do think that it comes with. There's some weight to that too, because, and I want to say there's like some heaviness to that word too, because for me, I feel like people want to dismiss, like they're dismissing each other by using that word. Like, no, it's not. It's not about being woke. And it's not about the left. It's not about the right. Like, it's just. Let's try to figure out what it is. Why we feel so, like, offended by that, like, what you're doing. Like, why do some people feel offended by it? Why. Why do some people laugh at it? Right. And I don't know that's the best way I could explain it.
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A
Well, I mean, I noticed that in particular lately. Well, some of this was. It was thrown around a lot at cpac. It seems to be part that was like in. Back in March. That's like a conservative conference thing that they put on. Anyway. Anyway, it's like a conservative conference thing they put on. I don't know if it's annual or sporadically, but. And there was a lot of talk about it there. It was a main theme of this sort of, sort of woke equals fascism kind of thing. And so they talked about it a lot. Again, something like what you're saying, you think it's primarily sort of stir up a base. But I'm always trying to carry. To hear, you know, when you, when they go to those, when you have a conference like that, you're kind of hearing what the speakers say, but you don't necessarily hear what do people hearing that message think it means or how do they react to it. And you know, some of it, like you were talking about, sometimes these words, like you say, sort of lose their meaning. And now it's like, and I kind of hate that when a word kind of gets basically taken out of our vocabulary because it just doesn't make sense. Like, you can't use that word without everybody having a lot of reaction to it and nobody really agreeing what it means. But, you know, so I saw it at cpac. It started to be a big thing and I just noticed it with, you know, a lot of people starting to announce for the 2024 Republican nomination. It seems like almost, almost every one of them. I think maybe Trump is one of the only ones sort of not. Well, I guess he also uses it. But, you know, almost every one of them has come out with some kind of an anti woke aspect to their campaign. You know, and I guess I don't know if maybe Maria leans a little bit more right. But I mean, I'd be, I always kind of want to hear, what do people get out of that? Like, is that a message people want to hear? Are they kind of like, I'm already kind of over it. I don't want to talk about that anymore. And I'm talking about people on the right too. Like, you know, are they, what are they getting out? Like when, when Nikki, Nikki Haley, I don't remember what she said, but something about in her veteran plan, I think she had a five point plan or something and one of them was, you know, removing wokeness from veterans or something like that or from, you know, it's like in the veterans world, like, does a veteran really care about wokeness? Like, is that an important issue? And you kind of say, I don't know. Right. I mean, I think, you know, it seems like that would not be an issue for a lot of veterans. I mean, there might be, you know, a right wing segment that really likes that message and wants to hear it. But I don't think of every veteran as right wing. I mean, there's so, you know, is that really a top issue? So you kind of wonder how well those messages are working. And I particularly want to kind of understand, you know, my wife gets mad about this because she's like, no, there's a very clear definition. It means this. And why are these people wrong? It's like, well, nobody's really wrong. They think what they think. And I really want to kind of get a better understanding of what we think about this. But, you know, and it might be. And I've had a hard time, you know, a lot of it kind of comes back to what I was talking about early. When I've talked to people on the right and sort of ask them about this, they've become very defensive. Like you're trying to, you're trying to get me. Like, you just want to trick me. Into saying something I shouldn't say or whatever. Right. It's like, you know, I don't want to do that, and I don't want to get a reputation for, like, being that way. Like, I'm just going to tell people what you said. I'm not going to necessarily spin it one way or the other. I'm just going to, like, I do want to hear what people think because I think it's really important for us to know, you know, we can't just. If we don't like a thing, we can't just discount it because people are thinking it. They really are out there and they're making decisions based on that. And we should kind of understand, like, where they're coming from and, And. And a little bit of the why, how did they get there? And, you know, and so anyway, that's. I don't know. Woke is just really on my mind right now.
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B
Yeah, I mean, I, I totally agree with what you're saying. And I think that maybe it's a scapegoat, you know, because now that you're talking about it a little more, I feel like sometimes it's a scapegoat for certain people to not say what they really want. Like, why don't you say what you really want to say? But you're using this word and you're overusing this word to. To not say what you really want to say.
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C
Why don't people use the word? Not even. But some people use the word just to kind of COVID because they have nothing else to say.
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A
Right.
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C
It's kind of like, I'm woke. So if I tell you what I think, you know, you're not going to understand. And I'm like, no, no, I perfectly. I, I understand. I understand a lot. But you just probably don't have anything else. So you're just using this term to be like, oh, I'm a woke person. And because I'm woke, you. You're not. We're not going to be on the same page. And that's it. The conversation ended.
- [29:17]
A
Right, Right, right. It could be a show, it could be a conversation stopper. Right. But just end the conversation. But that's a good point that. That's a good point that I think both sides sort of can use it that way. Right? I mean, like, you're saying someone that, like, you can sort of say, I'm woke, and therefore you can't question anything I say. Right. You could almost, like, put up a shield, like, how dare you question me Because I'm Woke. Right. And I think the right can use it as a pejorative like, you know, they're awoke. So therefore, you know, we. We really can't take anything they say seriously. So I think you can kind of use it both ways. And it is being used both ways.
- [29:53]
C
It's been being overly used, all these words. Now it's like they take one word, it becomes something. And now it just is like in the new norm to use it however you may see fit in whatever situation you're in.
- [30:08]
A
Well. And it start to be picked up by the, you know, people that are heavily partisan to. Now it's a thing. Like if I say I'm woke, it's, you know, like you're saying. You're saying the thing without saying the thing on the left. It can sort of be, I'm saying the thing, meaning I think you're racist. If I say almost saying I'm woke, I think you're racist or you're something else. And almost the other way around too. Like if. If I say, you know, woke is bad, that sort of mean. That might mean, well, I'm kind of racist a little bit. You know what I mean? It can almost be used sort of both ways. Maybe racism was a bad one. Bad one to pick, because that's obviously a pretty hot button topic. But. But, you know, and it's, it's, it's
- [30:43]
B
challenging, but it's true. It's absolutely true what you're saying. And it's like, like I said, like, you. They're using it to, you know, hide from whatever it is that they're trying. Trying would not have that conversation, right? That. That conversation stopper or, or start. No stopper.
- [31:00]
A
It's mostly a stopper.
- [31:01]
C
It's mostly stopper because even at work, I hear especially, like, people who are younger than me, they'll be like, you know, I don. Because I'm a woke person. I don't even know what that means. And you know what? You're right. It is a stopper. Because I go back to doing my work. I'm like, we're done. We are done.
- [31:19]
B
People are actually.
- [31:20]
C
And I retreat to my clients.
- [31:23]
A
Well, that's another way it does get used. Is kind of generationally right. Like, it's kind of wink, wink. You're a boomer, you're a Gen X, you're a millennial. You're wrong. I'm right. You know, it's like, because once you say I'm woke and sort of like implying that all the other generations aren't Woke or whatever. Right. That's another way it can sort of be a stopper. And you sort of see that use of it as well.
- [31:43]
B
Absolutely.
- [31:44]
A
You know what I'm waiting for the generations.
- [31:46]
C
It's hard also speaking to somebody who's younger than you and speaking to somebody that's, you know, older. I always like one thing at least, you know, on a personal level that has. Has helped me, at least with my relationship with my, like, family is pretty much accepting the fact that their mentality is based on what they grew up on, you know, and whatever was going on at that time. My mentality is in whatever I'm. I grew up in. And my son, who's 13, his mentality is on whatever he's growing up, you know, So I try to kind of be in the middle of things where I can try to understand, but not so much a set, because what I believe is what I believe.
- [32:29]
A
So, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I guess we could jump in a couple of the other things we did talk about before about, you know, so. And again, I don't know who wants to start, but, you know, as far as, you know, has anybody, you know, blocked or quote, unquote, canceled you? You know, maybe in social media because of stuff you've said, particularly regarding politics.
- [32:48]
C
If cancer was around, I should have been canceled a long time ago. But no, because I don't have that many problems. I'm not that important to be canceled. I am not that important for somebody to cancel me. That's another word. It's like, oh, my God, what can I say without offense, offend anybody? Like, everything has to be such a cookie cutter phrase or just.
- [33:15]
A
I mean, do you think you haven't been canceled because you've, you know, kind of tempered yourself because you don't want to be canceled? Or do you think, you know, what cancer?
- [33:23]
C
Because like I said, I'm not very. Besides the podcast, this is very, very new to me. I'm not one to always, you know, put myself out there. So quote, unquote, it's like nobody knows me, you know, even in my own neighborhood. Like, nobody knows me.
- [33:36]
B
Yes, I know.
- [33:38]
A
Interesting. What about you, Stephanie?
- [33:40]
B
Me? I think I've probably been silently canceled because I made. I. I'm very, like, vocal on my social media. And I have very, I want to say, more liberal standing. And a lot of people I know have more of, like, a conservative right standing. And I've noticed that some people stop watching my stories that I said. So I've seen, like, people pull back a Little bit. Right. So I want to say, like, silently. Yeah, of course. Maybe. Probably. And probably some people probably think I'm crazy.
- [34:26]
A
Sure.
- [34:26]
B
Yeah. So. But as far as, like, the podcast as a, As a whole, we actually started posting on TikTok. And on TikTok, Maria, our other co host, has gotten backlash for some of the things that she said. And I kind of have to step in and kind of. Either we were reply. I was replying to it just to see kind of where the person's head was at and why were they saying what she was saying about her. But the trolls, like, you're going to find trolls on social media. You're going to find people who are trying to tear you down. And so, yeah, we've. We've gotten a little backlash. Right. We're not popular. That popular. We have very small following, but we've gotten some.
- [35:23]
C
But I also think that we are mindful of what we say, you know, we are.
- [35:28]
B
Right.
- [35:28]
C
We also respect each other, to be honest with you. We do. We do respect each other. We respect people in general.
- [35:34]
B
General.
- [35:34]
C
So we don't, you know, we don't use any terms that we know is going to be offensive or anything like that. We just state our opinion, whether we agree with each other or not. We try to keep that in mind, to just do it in a, you know, in a way where we're getting our point across. Like, I want to be stern, but I don't want to be disrespectful.
- [35:55]
B
Right. And intentionally hurt people who are going to be our, you know, listeners and stuff like that. And. Yeah, right.
- [36:02]
A
Although you can't control how people take something either. I mean, boy, people.
- [36:05]
C
Like I said, no, there was a,
- [36:07]
B
There was a post that Maria was talking about credit scores, and somebody came in and said, you don't know what you guys are talking about. You're a mediocre podcast, and just because you have equipment, you shouldn't be on a podcast. And I was like, oh. I was like, yeah. I was like, we'll take your thoughts into consideration. Consideration. Thank you.
- [36:33]
A
Yeah. I mean, sometimes the most neutral thing, people can just get set up. Like you say, sometimes it's a troll. But. But sometimes people can get set off and they aren't necessarily. They may not sort of be trollish behavior, but maybe they're not really intentionally being a troll and they can just get set off for the slightest thing.
- [36:49]
B
Credit scores. Who knew?
- [36:51]
A
Well, you know, I had a, I had a. I did a show on something, you know, with. About Nextdoor with Somebody that had an experience on Nextdoor and they, they, you know, it was like every post can just turn political. Like I was talking about bank, you know, something happened at the bank and suddenly people coming in. Well, that's because you elected the wrong governor. It's like what.
- [37:09]
B
You know, and capitalism and.
- [37:12]
A
Yeah. And it's just like. And then it turns into this whole fight, you know, back and forth and it kind of doesn't involve you anymore.
- [37:18]
C
It's like, no, no, I said I went to the bank. That was it.
- [37:21]
A
That's it.
- [37:22]
B
Exactly.
- [37:22]
A
I went to the bank and boom, you elected the wrong governor and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, exactly.
- [37:26]
C
To do with the fact that I have no money in the bank.
- [37:30]
A
Y. Exactly. Well, have either of you felt directly or indirectly threatened because of social media reactions?
- [37:40]
C
No, like I said, I'm not popular at all. I have like social media now and I'm still not as active as I should be. And I know Stephanie probably hates me for that because I'm not as active as I should be now that I have a podcast. Yeah. Because I'm very, very late. I hide from the camera.
- [38:00]
A
Yeah. I have to really force myself to put something out there on a semi regular schedule. I mean, my personal page is like if my Instagram or something. I've had an Instagram since the very beginning because I'm sort of a tech guy and researcher. So I kind of just want to see what it was about. So here I am, this old guy. There's all these 13 year old girls who are really using. I'm just going, oh, I'll get an account. What's that about? But I mean like you'd find like five posts a year on my, on my Instagram account. Right. And it would usually be just my wife and I went to a ball game or something. Right.
- [38:28]
C
I used to post only on my birthday and my son's birthday.
- [38:32]
A
Exactly.
- [38:34]
B
But yeah, I don't get offended by, by anything or feel any type of way when somebody posts on. So at least not now. Right. Because we don't have a big following.
- [38:43]
C
We don't know.
- [38:45]
B
But the stuff that has come at me or at us. Right. Because I take, you know, we're a unit. So if they say something about Maria or lose, I'm gonna take, I'm gonna take it. Them. Okay, let's see what this is about. You know, but I haven't, It's. I laugh at it, to be honest. And you gotta have humility. And I actually like posted about humility today, so.
- [39:06]
A
Yeah, yeah. So so far, none of them have been like, you didn't see it as like a serious threat or for your safety or anything?
- [39:12]
B
Yeah, there's no, like, coming for my life or anything.
- [39:15]
A
It always. It happens.
- [39:17]
C
You do do that at least, you
- [39:19]
A
know, we made it exactly right. It's when you first signed, you know, you made it right.
- [39:27]
C
Throw a at us. We made it.
- [39:29]
A
So it sounds like you haven't. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. Right? You don't want that. It sounds like you haven't thought about sort of getting off social media, maybe in the personal realm, even if. If not certainly obvious on the podcast side.
- [39:42]
B
Yeah. We have where we're in talks about like, doing live podcasting and like even just networking. Right. Meeting other podcasters, going to events and so. And we have like a lot of fairs in New York, so we were also thinking about maybe having a booth and providing. Doing something with that. So eventually, yeah, we. We plan to get off of social media and.
- [40:13]
C
Yeah.
- [40:14]
A
But not in response to sort of bad reactions and trolls and stuff like that.
- [40:18]
B
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. I mean, we. We all grew up in New York City, so I'm sure we've heard a lot. A lot more than.
- [40:29]
A
A lot thicker skin than your average American. Right.
- [40:33]
C
This is how they build your carries in a Spanish household anyway. They make.
- [40:38]
B
Right. Culturally. Culturally strong in that department.
- [40:44]
A
Yeah. Just what you have to deal with getting from one borough to another is. Is enough. Right. To talk about that.
- [40:52]
C
That's a whole different podcast. That's a whole different hour. I can sit there going around about traffic and how long. 2.1 miles takes me about half an hour when it shouldn't.
- [41:05]
A
Right. Well, I don't. So I'm curious about. I guess, you know, maybe we'll end with this. What? And actually we could end with anything you want to. If you want to add any more stuff. But. But, you know, so what about news content sort of outside social media, like TV news or newspapers or online, you know, online or offline, but, you know, online news media, things like that. Do you guys engage with. With any of that sort of thing? No, like New York Times, Wall Street Journal, any of that kind of stuff?
- [41:34]
C
Oh, you do?
- [41:35]
B
I do, yeah.
- [41:36]
C
Oh, okay. So no one's. Only for my part, you.
- [41:39]
B
And when you say engage, you mean as a podcast, it's just you as a person, your personal.
- [41:45]
A
Yeah, I mean, you're. Yeah. Like, I mean, do you sort of check the news a couple times a week, A couple times a day or whatever?
- [41:50]
B
You know, yeah, I have the NPR app on my phone and I have, like, the NASA. But I do. I do check the news pretty frequently and even, like, listen to other podcasts that talk about news, like, you know, Daily Wire, all types of news. So, yeah, I do it pretty frequently, and it's mostly online. And then I also have, like, my Roku tv and sometimes they have news on there and local news and stuff like that.
- [42:22]
A
So. Yeah, interesting. And so have you ever experienced, like, you know, I talk about this idea of kind of this outrage porn thing, that kind of rage porn thing, where it's just like they're constantly trying to get us mad about stuff and get us upset, you know, and get us mad at the other side. I mean, do you have. That. Has. Has that kind of stuff caused you to maybe tune out a little bit or change how you use those sources or even change which sources you use at all?
- [42:47]
B
For me, no, not at all. I mean, yes, I will say it has changed the sources that I've used. Right. So listening to less opinionated news, because a lot of the times what somebody thinks is news, Right. Is not actually truthful news, is more of an opinion that someone's giving. And I've learned to stay away from kind of like the opinionated parts of news and stick with more news feeds that, you know, just give me the what. So how could I explain it? That. Just give me the basics of what was happening, right.
- [43:36]
A
The facts, without adding as much spin.
- [43:38]
B
Right. Without adding so much opinion, and you could tell the difference once you start. Once you start listening to different types of news, you know, which ones are more opinionated than others. And yeah, I just, I sometimes if I want to be entertained and see what the other side or has to say, then I'll be like, okay, yeah, let me listen. Let me see what they have to say, you know, but it's. It's purely entertainment at that point.
- [44:03]
A
Right. So it sounds like you kind of use that as a strategy to. To keep yourself from getting too stressed out about it all.
- [44:10]
B
Yeah, I, I like to hear. I always like to hear both sides and, you know, it helps me determine, you know, what I believe. Right. Because I, I have to hear the opposite to see if that's what I, you know, I want to hear if, you know, what they might say opposed to what. How could I say what they might say that I might. That might determine, okay, well, maybe this wasn't right on this news feed or whatever, but this is right on this news feed and kind of like, I Don't know. Yeah, I could explain it.
- [44:48]
A
So, Luz, do you stay off or stay away from sort of new stuff partially just because you don't want to get stressed out about it or have any other reasons why?
- [44:55]
C
Like, I. I try to research, like, I don't know. I guess you can say I'm not as. You know, as I don't interact as much and stuff. So I try to educate myself just by randomly, literally just searching whatever kind of comes up. And if I find something like, okay, let me kind of find what, you know, more about what's going on, then I just kind of do my own research type of thing.
- [45:17]
A
So we can find ourselves so absorbed with some of these national, you know, issues. And in reality, if you think about what affects you day to day, these national issues aren't the things often. I mean, some. Some obvious obviously do, but. But many times, like, there's so much going on in our local area that. And we're just so focused on these national issues that, you know, this guy off in Washington has very little to do with what's happening in my neighborhood, you know, so you can find yourself doing that. So, I mean, sometimes that's a good strategy of just kind of what's really happening in my neighborhood, you know, a lot.
- [45:47]
C
I always think somebody got stabbed, somebody got run over, somebody got robbed.
- [45:53]
B
Yeah. And that can definitely be. Become overwhelming when you're listening to local news, especially in New York City, because
- [46:01]
C
if you really look at the address, be like, let me see how close I am. And you're like, oh, my God, I'm only two blocks away.
- [46:07]
B
Like the citizens app. So I never downloaded that citizens app ever, because I knew that it was gonna. It was just gonna stir things up in me, and I was gonna be afraid to go outside or I was gonna be afraid to do certain things because now you have an alert two blocks away. You have an alert three blocks away. And, you know, I just. I never. I never wanted the app at all. And that's one of the. Yeah, that's one of the ones I definitely stay away from.
- [46:36]
A
Yeah, you get some of that from. From next door as well, you know, and the news doing that, that's sort of another version of that. When I use that term, outrage porn, that's kind of another version of it, Right. They're trying to get you scared about the weather and crime and, you know, traffic and just pound. You have how bad the world is all the time, right?
- [46:52]
C
Not bad, but we've had this all the time. It's just Never been. It's never been so easy to access that the problem now, you know, like she said, you have a. Literally an app that can tell you, like, hey, somebody just got robbed 150ft from where you're standing.
- [47:08]
A
Well, right. I mean, you know, if you look at the statistics on this, we shouldn't have been going out of the house in the 1980s. Right. We should have never gone out that house. It was. The crime was so high, but we didn't have any idea. So we just go storming out, blurry, dirty. We're good.
- [47:22]
B
Yeah. And that's. That's one thing that I've seen recently. There was a study done, or. It wasn't a study. It was something that I was reading. I forgot what it was. And they were saying how the media is saying how crime in New York City has went up so much. And you go outside, there's crime. And what the truth is, is actually, it's actually took a downturn. Right. So it's lower. The crime has lowered since the 90s, but yet everyone thinks that the crime has went up because of that outrage. Right.
- [47:54]
C
Anymore. People don't even like going now anymore. So it's like. That doesn't make sense.
- [47:59]
B
Right. And. And I could tell from my own experience walking the streets of New York City, I. I don't feel like. I don't. When I was younger, I felt less safe. Right. Versus now. I don't know if it's because now I'm an adult, but a lot of things that has happened in the past hasn't happened recently. So I'm like, huh, has crime went up? Or it's just, I don't know.
- [48:24]
C
Probably still the same.
- [48:26]
A
Right? Well, I mean, I think long term, it has a trend down. And, yeah. You get your spikes in between. Right. There's obviously. So if you look small, it might look like it's really shot up, but in the big picture, it's kind of
- [48:35]
B
in the bigger picture. Right. It has gone down. Right?
- [48:38]
A
Yeah. Like I say, we probably should have never gone out of the house in the 80s and 90s.
- [48:44]
B
Nobody had a problem then.
- [48:46]
A
Right. I mean, somehow we made it through, but. Yep.
- [48:49]
C
And look at us here.
- [48:50]
A
Exactly. Well, I don't know if there's anything else you wanted to jump in with, but, I mean, I've had fun. This has been really. And I really appreciate you guys making the time, and I think that's. I had a good time with this.
- [49:02]
B
Oh, thank you. I had a great time.
- [49:03]
A
Thank you.
- [49:04]
B
Thank you for inviting us yes, for sure. And hopefully next time we'll have. Or if there's a next time, we'll have Maria here so you can hear her side.
- [49:14]
A
Yeah, that would be great. Yeah. So just. I'll make sure we get it in there. But I mean. So your podcast is the unfiltered trio, right?
- [49:22]
B
Yes, yes.
- [49:23]
A
And mine is called Outrage Overload. So folks that want to check out both of those podcasts, those. That's what we're. That's where we're coming from. So those should be easy to find on your favorite podcast player. Yeah. So I don't know if there's anything else you wanted to add in there, but if not, I really appreciate the time, and I. I thought it was fun.
- [49:41]
B
Yeah, yeah, definitely. It was. It was awesome. And I look forward to more chat. Me, too.
- [49:49]
C
Just being the third wheel on the background.
- [49:53]
A
Yeah. All right. That's awesome. Well, thanks for. Thanks for joining again, and I'll see you soon.
- [49:59]
C
Yes. Thank you.
- [50:00]
B
Thank you.
- [50:11]
A
That is it for this episode of the Outrage Overload podcast. For links to everything we talked about on this episode, visit outrage overload.net you can find Stephanie, Luz, and Maria at the UnfilteredTrio podcast on Apple, Spotify and all the podcast player apps, or nfilteredtriopod on Instagram. You can follow me, David Beckmeyer on Twitter misterblog, or follow the show on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook. Outrageoverload. If you like the show, consider giving us a review on Apple. I'm told I can help to give the show some extra cred and visibility, which might help to attract more of the kinds of great guests we've had. It's all about our first principle of putting out a quality show. Okay. Watch for a new episode in a couple of weeks.