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- [00:00]
A
If I'm using those same phrase, your description of it, how you frame it, if I use those words back at you, then you know I've heard what you've said and that's paying respect to that person by acknowledging I've heard what you've said. Let me find out if I'm in the right place. If this is really your the priority. This is what I heard you say, using that phrase, those keywords, and they then realize they can relax.
- [00:35]
B
This is Outside Sales Talk, the best podcast for outside salespeople. I'm your host, Steve Benson and we're here to chat with the world's top sales experts so that you can get their best sales tactics to level up your game. Welcome back to Outside Sales Talk. I've got Janice Gordon with us here today and she's going to talk about how to scale your. Your sales. Janice, welcome to the show.
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A
Oh, it's great to be here. Thank you for inviting me, Steve.
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B
Absolutely. It's great to have you. So, just by way of introduction, Janice Gordon is the customer growth expert. She is the author of Business Evolution, Creating growth in a rapidly changing World and she's the co author of Heels to Deals how women are dominating Business to business Sales. Janice is an engaging speaker, facilitator and presenter who specializes in keynotes that help deliver customer excellence that increase sales. Janice also hosts the popular scale your sales podcast. Janice, let's jump right into it. It's really great to have you here today and welcome to the show. I guess first let's talk about why do you think salespeople should focus on quality relationships with customers over more of a spray and pray large quantity of relationships that some salespeople take. And this is something I've heard you talk about for years.
- [02:16]
A
Yeah, yeah. Scale your sales framework. We really focus on retention, retention, retention. Because it costs five, five times more to acquire a new customer than to retain your existing one. So why wouldn't you do that? I mean, I want to see great results from my customers, so I want to five times them. This is an easy one for me. You know, the quality of relationship drives customer loyalty and repeat business. So you've got to invest in that. And that's all about the systems and the mindset that you have and the culture that you have in order to make sure that that happens.
- [02:56]
B
Absolutely. And how can salespeople build these deep relationships with prospects and customers? How do you get to that place of having quality relationships with someone that, that you're just starting out with?
- [03:13]
A
Well, what you want to do is get through a relationship that feels equal, where you have mutual understanding and respect. So to build a relationship, salespeople need to actively listen rather than what they have been known to do is actively tell. So active listening, it's not only with your mouth, ears, eyes, the whole kind of body language, really understand when you know, if you're face to face and we're not always that that way, but even if you're in, you know, the gallery mode online, really look for how people's gestures and facial expressions change and just say I, I, I, I sense that you know, that you know, whatever your, your, your, your, your sensing, you know, let me know if I'm going too, too fast, let me know if you want me know. Really kind of like pause. Because what we tend to do is just spout out what we want to say and not actually listen to the gestures of the person who may be bored on the other side, you know, so you really need to kind of like pause, actively listen by watching, you know, for the body language. And then it's about understanding not only the pain points. We're always going on about the pain points really. And it's, it's about the priorities. Because there are lots of pains in business, aren't there? But actually it's the ones that are most relevant right now. There's a time limit to them. So you want to really understand what are the priorities. Because if you focus on the priorities in the relationship, they feel that they've been listened to. Even if you help your customer identify with what is a problem through your active listening and questioning, then it helps them to focus where their energies should be. So you really want to get to a stage where you have mutual understanding and respect. And that's often through asking great questions and actively listening to what that buyer and customer has to say. And then the other thing, what builds trust is, is follow up. We don't follow up nearly enough. So you've got to personalize the follow up. You've got to make sure the content is personalized, but you've got to follow up, do as you say always and follow up more than you think.
- [05:48]
B
And how would you suggest that, that people personalize that follow up? And what would the follow up strategy be for, for business to business sales?
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A
Right. So you know, you've had a meeting, whether online or face to face and the most important thing is that you're going to summarise the meeting and you're going to put down the next steps, the next steps that they agree to in the meeting and you're going to put some timelines to that. So all of these things need to be things that you've agreed when you're closing down the meeting. You're providing the guide ropes to these meetings. But actually it's the customer, the buyer, the person you're speaking to that is filling in the details by the questions that you, you ask. So in terms of building the relationship, it's the onus is on you because they're crazy busy is the term that Jill Conrath use. Crazy busy customers. So the onus is on you to make sure that you summarize the discussion and make sure that you follow up based upon what they've said they want you to do and they've agreed to that as well. So
- [07:07]
B
build quality relationships with your customers through mutual understanding of their priorities, active listening, not, not telling them, and then building trust through providing that structure and personalization of the relationship and summarizing things in and giving really good follow up and doing. Building trust by doing what you say that you're going to do.
- [07:32]
A
Absolutely.
- [07:36]
B
So what, what thoughts or tips do you have for salespeople who are trying to build that deeper relationship through starting really meaningful and good conversations with prospects? Especially if maybe the prospect is so busy that they're hesitant to engage or hesitant to build a relationship or go deeper with you?
- [07:58]
A
It's acknowledging that that person has concerns. You can feel it in their body language. Remember I said actively listening and it's now trying to find out what those concerns are, what's feeding, what's the basis of those concerns. So it's really understanding why they're hesitant and it could be, did they have a bad experience before? Is their job on the line? Are they having personal challenges so they don't actually have the proper time to dedicate to this? If you find out what the hesitancy, what the problem is, then you can begin to solve it. You can meet them not halfway, but you know, more than halfway to actually help them to deliver what they need to deliver. Because remember, not only do you have a job to do, they have a job to do. So it's about getting in their mindset and understanding their challenges and helping them to do what they're paid to do. You know, so you become their support because you absolutely understand what they're going through, what the hesitancy is. If it's, they may be just the language that you're using, they may be someone that's more analytical and you're using quite flowerily. So they're going to be hesitant because they're not quite sure that it's not gelling with them. So. So they're the probing, active questioning and listening that you need to do to. Before you race on to really understand and acknowledge that concern, that hesitancy. And then you've got a strategy of how to go forward.
- [09:37]
B
Makes perfect sense. Yeah. And you said something that I thought was really interesting there about the matching their language. Tell me a little bit more about how to. How you would go about doing that, how you would identify what their styles are and then. And then match those styles to connect with them better to kind of get on their speed.
- [09:59]
A
Language is absolutely critical in sales. It's going. You think that, you know, like, we're trying to reach a mutual understanding is we, we need to stop selling and really start understanding what people mean and what people want. And it's the words that do that. So language is absolutely critical. So how do I know you've heard me? I know you've heard me because I might use a word to describe how I feel or a situation or what's going on in the company or what the need is or whatever. I might describe it with a few phrases and words. Okay, now I'm going back and I'm acknowledging what you've said to me and what's important to you. If I'm using those same phrase, your description of it, how you frame it. If I use those words back at you, then you know I've heard what you've said, and that's paying respect to that person by acknowledging I've heard what you've said. Let. Let me find out if I'm in the right place, if this is really the priority. This is what I heard you say using that phrase, those key words, and they then realize they can relax. I'm being heard. And that's so important in sales, in this relationship, when we're trying to reach mutual understanding. No one cares about my world. No one really cares about my product, my service. What they care about is their world and how they can solve their problems, their challenges, their issues. So your job is to find out what that is. And you can only do that through the active listening and then acknowledging, telling them you've heard them by using the words. So words are absolutely crucial.
- [12:01]
B
So you, you're. You basically show people that you really understand them, and that builds the relationship by repeating the exact words that they said back to them. And that's, that's the crux of, of active listening. I guess I'm Kind of doing that. Right now. I'm repeating your words back to you in summarizing them about active listening. This is meta.
- [12:25]
A
Yeah, it is, isn't. It is. Now, it's not to repeat every single word. You take the key phrases, you know the key words because you don't want to think. Actually, I've got a parrot here. He's just repeating everything I say, you know, that's not meta, you know, so kind of doing it intelligently so that they, you know, so that you're able to select what are the key phrases and words that are really important to describe how this person's feeling or how, you know, the, the situation that they're in. Absolutely.
- [13:06]
B
And I imagine it puts people at ease. Right. If you, if you're giving the words back to them, you're summarizing what they said, they're like, okay, they get it. They heard me. I am heard. That puts them at ease. And if you are an expert in the space and they've already kind of. They, they can tell by interacting with you that you know a lot about their space and their business and that you can be helpful. If you now are listening to them and understanding them. They're. They're much more likely to engage in a deeper under. On a deeper level because you, they under. They. They feel like you understand them, which you do if you're able to, you know, kind of summarize and, and be an active listener to them and give. Tell them back the important things to them.
- [13:48]
A
Yeah. And I think the other thing that's important, you. I may be the expert. You may be the expert. Expert. But actually, are you the. And I the expert in the customers, industry and business? We're not. And that's why I say this kind of balance, this mutual respect and understanding is really important. It's got to be equal in the relationship. Now, I may know everything about my product and my service. I may be, you know, a Nobel Prize winner or, you know, whatever expertise I have, but I'm not an expert in their environment, in their industry, in their business. And so by acknowledging the words and the phrases they use, it helps to balance that relationship that what they say is as important of what you bring to the table.
- [14:45]
B
Yeah. I've been talking to the Nobel committee about getting a award for best mapping and routing for salespeople and like, having that be a category every year they give out prizes for. I don't think they're going to do it, though. Honestly, they, they, they looked at me like I was a Little crazy. They're like, no, no, that's not what we're doing. You know I thought it'd be. I thought it'd be good for SEO anyway. But didn't.
- [15:07]
A
Didn't happen. Do you know the week before last I was in Oslo. I went to see the northern lights for my birthday which. And I managed to see it. A lot of people didn't so it was amazing. So we went to Oslo and there's the building there where they give out the nobe and I was going to storm the building but yeah, they had guards on there so I couldn't get through. So I mean that was the other strategy. That's the other way of doing it.
- [15:33]
B
Yeah. I, I was just up in Northern Europe as well. I didn't go to Oslo. I was in Norway but my family went to Oslo. I had to go to a conference in America while they were there. But so, but we were in the place that kind of the. I actually don't understand this very well. Sweet. The Swedish competition to the Nobel. Nobel Prize. I don't. I've never. They were grumpy that Norwegians have one. So. But, so I was at that building in Sweden but I, there was.
- [15:58]
A
Oh okay.
- [16:00]
B
It was kind of like. But this isn't really that where they, they are. This is kind of like a different ceremony about the same thing that we do. And I was, I was a little confused.
- [16:08]
A
Yeah.
- [16:08]
B
But beautiful part of the world. I, I did not see the, the northern lights myself. But, but try as I might. What, what. Well, what questions would you say are some key things to really get to the deeper level with people, to really understand their business that salespeople could ask. What are the questions they could ask early in a relationship to build,
- [16:39]
A
build
- [16:39]
B
that understanding and build. Get to a place where they have a deeper high quality relationship.
- [16:47]
A
I think salespeople need to stop selling and start listening and asking the open ended questions that uncover customer priorities, needs and goals and so that's what they need early on. They can't go in. If you're selling then you're assuming a lot. You're assuming there's a need, you're assuming someone's interest. You're assuming so much and you don't know. I. And you can imagine buyers sitting on the other side of this tarage of stuff that's been offloaded at them because they've happened to pick up the phone and someone thought I've got them now so I'm going to talk for the next 10 minutes really and not Breathe. While I'm kind of giving this tirade of stuff about my, my product and service, you've not really asked them a question and they probably put you on silence until they know there's a gap or something. It's a complete waste of time. Not only that, it's. Your credibility has been completely blown. So if you go in and you have done enough research where you think there might be a need based upon something that was posted online from the company, from that individual, based upon the industry trends, and you know, too many salespeople go in and they've done no research at all and they say the same thing they said to the last customer, you have to do that research now. And I think this is what we talked about a bit at the top in that you, you're focusing on a smaller group of customers now rather than, you know, spray and pray. So, you know, if you've got a smaller group of, of customers, you need to make sure that you know they are very closely aligned to you. You know, you're able to serve their need. You only know that if you've done some initial research. So you go in and you'll, you'll say, based on this research that I've done, I'm doing a census check, you know, and I've got, you might give an example of another relevant customer that had a particular need that you helped solve. And then you'll ask them, are you having a similar problem or seen similar issues or similar trends in your industry and, and, or are there any other top priorities? Remember, I focus on the priority rather than the pain point priorities that you would like to discuss. So you've established some credibility first of all, and honored them by the fact that you've done some research, you've bothered to do some research, you think they're important enough, and you've identified what you think is a need for them. And you've got some research and data around that. You've got some, some examples and now you want to open the conversation to discuss it with, with them. Now that bit that you do is so well rehearsed and it's very short and it's very sweet so that you know, you're not spending 10 minutes talking at them. You probably spend two minutes covering all of that research, the census check, everything. Now you're into the conversation. They've got the parameters of what you're talking about and they understand that you've got some knowledge of them and credibility and you've done some research. They're more likely to want to venture further and do discovery with you because you've, you've done that work before. So you've got to tailor the conversation to make it effective to them, make it most effective to them. And you've got to, as I say, it's really tailored, really succinct. So you've got to practice this to make sure that it's effective to them and you can practice it by role playing with other people. The more you practice it, the better you are at being really succinct. And get feedback from the customers and from your team as well to make sure that your opening gambit is really compelling.
- [20:49]
B
That makes a ton of sense and I like thinking about it like that too. What is your opening gambit and how are you approaching the situation? And it's so much better if you can have done the research up front to know enough about them that you don't have to sell as much but can quickly talk about things that are truly relevant to them.
- [21:12]
A
Yeah.
- [21:14]
B
What other tips do you have to be productive and ask questions in a clear way that allows things to get deeper early in the relationship?
- [21:27]
A
Well, I think that it's important to be curious in your, your questioning and not to be pushy. And if you can get a customer to say, oh, I didn't know that, or so you're offering something new and different or I'm not so sure about, I'm not, I don't know about that question. I'm not sure how to answer it. Let me just check and I'll get back to you. Which means this is important. I should know this, but I'm not going to embarrass myself, but I'm going to check and get back because I think it's important I do know this. So your questions have got to be so good that it's not just telling people what they already know. And if your research is great, your questioning is great, then you need to get them to that point where they say, I'm not sure, but I'm going to find out. Or that's that. That's an interesting question. I'm, you know, it's like a buying signal really, isn't it? Now you're into a discovery dialogue where you are equal. They've got some information that they want to give to you. So it means you're going to get another meeting because you've asked them something they feel is important and they need to know. So that's where you want to get in that kind of discovery dialogue. Now we can delve deeper into that in the next session.
- [22:51]
B
And, and I've heard you bring up language a couple times here. So like you, you mentioned using their exact words back to them to, to help them, you know, to show them that you're listening, you understand them and kind of that part that the role that plays in active listening. What other thoughts do you have about the usage of language early in a relationship or even later in a relationship with customers as you look to go deeper in the relationship relationship. How can, how, what, what thoughts do you have about using language to help build relationships with customers?
- [23:25]
A
I think making sure that language is customer centric. I talk about customer centric. Sales language needs to be customer centric. So it's not my words, it's their words. But it's also swapping the words around so you might replace things like problem. We often talk about problems we're trying to find but actually challenges a word challenge is more customer centric. So rather than focusing on the problem, let's look at what are the challenges. So it's about when you're writing down and practicing the words you're using and making them really succinct and meaningful. Every single word counts. You need to look at it from the customer's point, point of view and make sure that it's customer centric language. What is the words that they would use and what are the words that going to open the conversation rather than close it down. Problem is quite a hard word and it makes people feel it gets their backup. Whereas challenge is something more aspirational and people want to lean into it more. So really when you're practicing, write down and have a look at and analyze the words that you're, you're using and make it, make it so that it opens the conversation. It's more solution orientated, it's more customer centric in your language.
- [24:51]
B
And all these thoughts we've had about building a relationship. What about retaining existing customers and keeping relationships going and growing those relationships? What, what thoughts do you have for salespeople who are, who are, who, who. That's kind of the customer attention side is, is the top of their mind.
- [25:15]
A
Right? Okay, well I, as I said in scale your sales we really focus on retention. If you get retention right, then who becomes your best sales force? Your customers. They're the ones that bring in the right new customers and that's why it's absolutely, absolutely critical. So in terms of increasing your customer retention, you've got to focus on the post sale engagement, the onboarding and really Dedicate time to how you do it and how you nurture the relationship. Often I talk about the initial sales process for a new customer is the buyer experience. We talk about customer experience, I talk about buyer experience. Because unless you get the buyer experience right, you're not going to have the customer to have a great customer experience. And one leads on to another. And if you think of a buyer in a new relationship, they're testing out, aren't they? So whatever you do has to be consistent within your, your whole cultural dynamics and processes have to be geared up to give a certain experience. So retention is absolutely critical. But you, whatever you do in retention, you would do that with new customers anyway. So we're focusing on the post sale engagement and onboarding. We've absolutely nailed that. We're providing ongoing support. And what you need to know is the percentage of usage or the usage matrix that that particular customer is. Because the thing is if they're not using the product efficiently, they're not going to renew and they're not going to talk positively about the product. And so it's a real risk to you. So the quicker you can get your customer engaged, onboarded and using, you know, your product and your service to the max, then you're going to have a better lifetime value of the customer. So you've got to know those ROIs, the usage metrics of your product or service. Then you also need to pre book and conduct regular check ins. Now regular will depend on the customer and the product and the service. But do it more than you think you need to do. It's just, just like the, the follow up because you need to build a relationship not just because you want to sell, but you need, that's just the start. Once you've got a cell is the start of the relationship. And so you think, you know, when you meet someone new in a personal relationship, you don't really know very much about them. And it's actually over the years of the, you know, regular meetings you have, you learn more and more more. And it's exactly the same in B2B. Business to business, you're building relationships. Now the other thing, why you need to invest so much time into this and it's time well spent is that we never sell to one person. You know, we're selling to a company so we're onboarding several people and we're building relationships with several people. And that's great. The more relationships you can have in an organization the that you're reducing the risk of churn of that particular contract that product and that service. Because people leave, don't they, they leave organizations. And if you only got, you know, very kind of narrow relationships in the organization, well, that business has left with them. You know, the new person coming in doesn't really want the relationship with you because they've got existing relationships that they're bringing in. So it's really important that you build relationships. What you know in your retention strategy is about your, your referral strategy, your on, you know, your kind of continual engagement strategy. It's about how you can make sure that you've got, you know, lots of leads into different departments and you're understanding more and more about what those customer priorities are as you build the relationship over the years.
- [29:35]
B
And one thing that jumped out there at me was, you know, so much one of the major areas of value of having a deep relationship and having trust with your customers is that they'll refer you to other customers. That's one of the positive things about it. Obviously. What thoughts and, and what teachings could you give our listeners about referrals and, and obviously it's a big topic. But what, what are some things that come to mind from your perspective, how to be really grow referrals for your business?
- [30:09]
A
Well, at scale your sales. In the framework, you know, we focus on retention, but part of the retention is the referrals. But if you don't have a great retention strategy and it's got to be ace, you know, that's your whole strategy, then you're not going to be able to do the referrals. And referrals doesn't just happen, you know, it is a strategy. Referrals is a strategy. So there's lots of information that you need to gather in. So where, if you've got, you know, the usage matrix, the roi, you're building the relationship, you know, you ask for strategy, you ask for referrals at different points, but from beginning, middle and end, you actually build that in as the way that you do business. But it is something that you do as part of your sales onboarding and acceleration process. It's all part of the same thing. The problem is with lots of organizations, they don't have a formal retention strategy, but then they're certainly not going to have a formal referral strategy. So one thing will lead to another, but it's got to be something that systemized that's laid down, that everyone knows about and everyone signs up for.
- [31:30]
B
Yeah, I think that's something that a lot of people don't. It's easy to miss that Referrals are a company strategy across the sales team, across the customer facing teams. And it's not just something that happens on a one off basis but something you can have a whole strategy built around it.
- [31:49]
A
Yeah. And that's part of that is having an alignment. You know, you don't have sales and customer success and all of these different silos. It doesn't work like that. You know, there's too much that kind of falls through. So you know, your whole sales go to market, sells and marketing, customer success, all of that has got to be properly aligned.
- [32:12]
B
What are some tips that you have to align sales, marketing and the other customer facing teams.
- [32:22]
A
It will start at the top really. And the CEO has to be completely brought into this because you will have the head of VP of marketing, VP of sales and they all have their, you know, their, their areas that they want to main have control over. Sometimes it's about every organization is going to be different. Sometimes it's about having a, a C CRO that may be the answer to you and everything else comes underneath it. So we always have this conversation. It very much depends on where the organization is in terms of how siloed they are now and how much more they need to do. But you know the thing that I say to all organizations when you're making a decision, do you know the impact on your key customers? And we often know and can measure the impact internally on decisions that we make. Our revenue generating decisions, our go to market store. We know internally the impact bringing on a new software, whatever it may be. But we don't always know the impact on our key customers. And key customers are often 80, 20, 20% of your customers bring 8 cent your revenue. You've got to know who they are, you've got to value them, they've got to be important. You've got to know the impact because can you afford to lose them and, and you know, upset them? No, you can't. So if you do not, if you haven't recorded the direct impact on those key customers, you should not be making decisions. Which is what I say to my, my sales leaders and CRO CEOs. You should not be making that decision unless you have measured and know the impact on, on the, those key most valued customers. Bottom line. Now when you start to do that then you start to work back from the customer. This is customer centric sales, customer centric organization you work back from. What is the outcome I'm trying to achieve? What's the impact on the customer? How I can retrofit my organization to make sure we deliver on those key outcomes. And that's when you start to align marketing, sales, customer success. Because you cannot ensure that you're meeting those customer outcomes without that happening. If you do it the other way around, there isn't so much momentum to it because we have these silos and everyone wants to maintain those because they want to maintain their fiefdoms. If you work, if your mindset, if your culture is working from the customer back, then it's a lot easier to have the momentum to make those changes and to make the changes that's right for the customer rather than right for you.
- [35:20]
B
Makes a ton of sense to me. Next section of the podcast today is sales in 60 seconds. Quick questions, quick answers. First quick question. What's the biggest mistake salespeople make when they're trying to build relationships with their customers?
- [35:39]
A
They sell. The biggest mistake is pushing the product or the service and not really understanding the customer's needs and priorities. First of all, salespeople need to understand the priorities and not pitch.
- [35:54]
B
Absolutely. And what is the first thing salespeople should do after meeting a new prospect?
- [36:04]
A
After meeting a prospect is to summarise the key points and the next steps. But having got agreement of all of that in the meeting and do that within say 48 hours, if not 24 hours, put all the dates and the follow ups in the meeting, but you've got to get agreement of that. You're just literally putting all of that in writing.
- [36:30]
B
And how can salespeople practice prioritizing their, their clients and really being, how can they really be on top of all this stuff? You know, when they're just overwhelmed and so busy, how do they stay organized?
- [36:48]
A
Remember I talked about the 8020 rule, understand who are your key customers? You know, we often, you get those that are customers that shout loudest, but they're actually, when you work it out, they're not making any money for you. So if you understand who are your key customers and really nurture those relationships. So we often run around at the like the smaller contracts because we think that, you know, they are easier to get. But actually you, you've got to maintain those, those larger contracts, the bigger deals, nurture the relationships. Sometimes it takes years to, to land but you know, it's, it's understanding they're the ones you need a balanced portfolio. And once you understand who your customers are, what's, what's the potential that they have. So if you've done X amount of business with them, but the potential is a lot greater Then you need to strategize and work out, well, what does that look like? Who do I need to know? What's the kind of relationships I, I need to have with those people? What is the strategy to start building up those relationships with those people so that you're making use of your time more effectively based on what your end goal is
- [38:02]
B
and what are some habits that salespeople can incorporate into their lives that will help support this development of deeper relationships with their customers.
- [38:17]
A
We need to B2B makes sure that it's not B2B. It's eye to eye, it's individual to individual. So it's about follow up. Understand the priority systemize the follow up, follow up more, way more than you think. Don't take it personal. Everyone is crazy busy, right? So you, we get, we do tend to take it personal when no one answers us. And so, you know, if you really understand they're crazy busy and what happens is, you know, for the 12th time you follow up, then you get an answer back and they say, oh, thank, I'm really glad you contacted me. I've been meaning to come back. I saw the other two. Now, I'm not saying that you harass people because you'll never get them to come back to you, but just make sure that you do it on a timely basis. But make sure that it's regular over the months. So you might be doing a LinkedIn message, an email, a tweet, send them, but it's not asking the same thing over and over again when you're going to do the business, when you're going to do the business. It's actually building the relationship. Sending an article you think is, is relevant, sending them something funny to, to make them, them laugh, you know, asking them about something you discuss in the conversation that might be personal. Did you see the F1? And you know, whatever. And then, you know, sending them an article with some research based on, you know, the particular product, whatever, you know. So you're sending them a variety of things in order to build the release relationship, not just focusing on I need to sell, I need to sell, I need to sell. But follow up more than you would, would expect.
- [39:59]
B
Makes a ton of sense. When I want to deepen relationships, I just invite people on my yacht. That's, that's my strategy.
- [40:08]
A
Yeah. For the listeners. I'm speaking at a, a yachting show summit and so I'm going to Croatia. So that's where the yachting analogy comes from. I think Steve thinks that I've got you Know very well the friends. And that's how I, I got to go and speak about sales at this event. So maybe I have actually, I mean,
- [40:31]
B
well, maybe if you didn't have them before, maybe you'll have them and have deepened those relationships by the end of the, the yachting. The yachting.
- [40:38]
A
I will do such a good job with this, my keynote. Of course I will. You'll see me in Cannes next year.
- [40:46]
B
I mean, you know, yachts have got to get sold too. I mean, that's, yes, they have. That seems like a good business. But it's like selling wine, you know, it's like, well, I get to drink a lot of really good wine because I sell wine. It's like, well, I sell yachts. So I get to hang out on yachts a lot. That's, I mean, I, I, I don't know what I'm doing with my life. Selling mapping software for salespeople. I mean, that's not nearly as fun as yachts. I'm definitely doing something wrong.
- [41:10]
A
You know, Funnily enough, that's what I think. Why didn't I think about doing this? Really? Oh my God. My life would have been so different.
- [41:17]
B
Hanging out in Croatia at a yachting sales event. I, that sounds fantastic. I'm, I'm gonna, I'm, I'll join you there. Well, I'm going to try to summarize all the wisdom that you've, that you've given us today because so many people listen to this while they're on the road. So first, focus on retention to scale your sales. And the way you have better retention is by focusing on the relationships that you have with your existing customers. You want relationships that feel equal and have mutual respect and understanding. Salespeople can build relationships like this through active listening and also by really paying attention to people's body language to really get at what's kind of going on behind the scenes in their mind. Asking great questions can really help you stay focused on your prospect's current priorities and figure out what's most important to them. Following up is a really important skill. You want to customize your follow up messages. You want to summarize what you've discussed in the meeting. You want to talk about what the next steps are going to be, and you build trust by following through on all that. If a prospect is hesitant to move forward with you, really take time to understand what's making them hesitant and, and look to make their job easier. Seek to really lessen their load and figure out how your solution does that. And, and showing them that value is, is really the crux of overcoming the objections that, that, that, that you'll run into. Take time to do research before going into customer meetings so that you're really able to understand them better, see where they're coming from and frankly better able to serve their needs. Language is critical in sales and in so many different ways, obviously. I mean you have to take time to understand what people want and need and share. Show that you understand them. You can. One way to that Janice recommended you can do that is you can use the same phrases and words when you recap to your prospects and customers what they had been saying. And that really helps someone feel heard and, and puts them at ease, reduces their stress when they're like, oh okay, this person gets it. They understand me. They were listening to me. I guess These aren't just sales skills, these are life skills in general, I suppose. But as, as a lot of sales education is, you can try using customer centric language to get prospects to open up. Analyze the words you've been using and see if you can adjust your language so that you can have better conversations. And Janice gave us great tips for that. Make sure you focus on post sales engagement just as much as you focus on your pre sale engagement. A lot of people drop the ball right there, a lot of companies do. And make sure you think about your customer's experiences holistically from beginning to end with you. You want to get customers onboarded and seeing the benefits of your solutions as quickly as you possibly can. And then you want to do regular check ins to keep building and deepening that relationship and that can lead to referrals. And you, and you want to have a system for, to ask for referrals throughout different points in your entire life cycle with a customer and you want to build that into your company's process. Janice, once again this has been so fantastic to get your tips. We really appreciate it. Where can listeners read more about your work if they want to learn more from you? How do they go about that and how do they reach out to you? I mean obviously you do a ton of speaking to big groups of people. So if people wanted that, how do they, how do they get to know you better?
- [45:26]
A
Yep. So Janice B. Gordon and I'm all over various social media channels under Janice B. For Bertie Gordon. Not that my middle name is Bertie. And LinkedIn is my main platform so you can connect with me and message me there on LinkedIn. I have a newsletter called Revenue Revved up so I share lots of content there and I've started doing LinkedIn lies periodically and share lots of great content there. I've got a few coming up with Lori Richardson. Actually we're doing a discussion I think on the 21st and 28th of November. So yeah, make sure sure you connect with me then you'll start to see all of all of the material coming out of there. The podcast. Thank you for mentioning that Scale yourselves podcast. I in oh gosh, yesterday I was recording, I interviewed some incredible people, get some amazing insights and learn lots and and I'm sure many of your listeners will will enjoy the discussions on scale your sales podcasts. So please do go and visit. But the important thing is to let me know, you know, kind of connect with me and say that you heard me here and you wanted to connect or you know, you found the podcast through here. All right. I love to know, you know, see, see the connection. So please do kind of visit scaleyourcells.co.uk website and you know, connect with me through all the channels is is wherever you find me.
- [47:06]
B
Sounds fantastic. Well, this has been a great episode of the outside Sales Talk. If you work in field sales, you'll love Badger Maps, our ever present sponsor here, the number one routing planner that helps you sell 20% more and drive 20% less. You can get a free trial@badgermapping.com today. If anyone think of any other sales reps that could benefit from Janice's thoughts about scaling sales we've talked about today, definitely share this podcast with them. And take care. Until next time everybody. Janice, enjoy your Enjoy speaking to the the folks learning to sell yachts. It sounds like they have great lives. Try to make friends. That sounds like a great place to make friends.
- [47:46]
A
Yeah, I'm gonna make a lot of friends. Thank you. Thank you, Steve. Loved it.
- [47:52]
B
Take care Angel. Next time everybody
- [47:57]
A
sa.