Michael Evans Behling: Why Telling Mixed Kids They Aren’t Black Enough Has to Stop

Summary

Outta Pocket with RG3

Episode: Michael Evans Behling: Why Telling Mixed Kids They Aren’t Black Enough Has to Stop

Date: May 14, 2025
Host: Robert Griffin III (RG3) & Grete Griffin
Guest: Michael Evans Behling (All American, actor, mental health advocate)

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Main Theme

This episode delves into the complexities of racial identity and belonging for mixed-race individuals, particularly focusing on the pressures and invalidations mixed kids face within Black communities. Michael Evans Behling—actor, social media personality, and star of All American—opens up about his personal journey as a biracial adoptee and public figure. The conversation also covers the intersections of race, opportunity, representation on and off screen, and mental health.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Opportunity/Success Debate

[03:04 – 07:35]

• Discussion on Anthony Mackie’s quote: "Success is not earned, it’s actually given."
• Michael shares his casting journey for All American and the role of “being chosen” versus just hard work.
• Michael: “Everything’s subjective. That casting director had to look at my headshot and…say, you know what? I think he might fit this role.” [05:00]
• RG3 parallels this with football and the NFL draft: Talent matters, but opportunity is decided by gatekeepers.

2. Identity Struggles Growing Up Mixed-Race

[08:01 – 10:43]

• Michael recounts being called “Oreo” and "not Black enough" by other kids.
• Connection between his own experiences and those of his on-screen character, Jordan Baker.
• Michael: “I’m not up to your standard as of being Black enough…That was the whole thing.” [09:00]
• Importance of representation and tackling these themes on All American.

3. Navigating Mixed Identity at Home

[11:19 – 13:00]

• Michael’s white mother was proactive in educating him about how society would see him as a Black child.
• Gave him “the talk” and taught him he’d be seen differently than his white siblings.
• Michael: “My mom did a really beautiful job of just giving me that understanding of I’m not like my classmates that are all white…So I gotta give her the biggest thank you for being self-aware.” [12:00]

4. Community Policing and Being “Black Enough”

[14:22 – 16:37]

• RG3 and Michael discuss intra-community policing—how dating outside the race, cultural interests, or “proper English” spark accusations of not being “down.”
• RG3’s perspective: “Being Black is not a monolith…Why look down on any Black man or Black woman for being different? Doesn’t make any sense to me.” [16:26]

5. The Harm of Denying Mixed-Race Identity

[22:47 – 24:56]

• Michael explains the emotional and psychological toll for mixed children when their Blackness is diminished or questioned.
• Michael: “It just makes you feel lost…like you don’t know where you belong. Your sense of identity is just escaped.” [23:00]
• RG3 validates Michael’s experience: “Your Black experience, even being adopted and raised by a white family, is still a Black experience.” [25:13]

6. Relationships and Public Scrutiny

[17:14 – 21:02]

• Michael reflects on his dating life, why he’s been single, and the challenges of intimacy and trust in Hollywood.
• Shares about past short-lived marriage and how being public makes things messy when things go wrong.
• Insights on choosing work and self-growth over forced relationships.

7. The Reality of All American’s Football Scenes

[31:08 – 34:58]

• Honest commentary on the sometimes unrealistic football choreography in early seasons.
• Michael reveals how actors with limited football backgrounds affected authenticity, but also how things improved over time.
• Memorable: “There’s a lot of times some of our writers who weren’t football fans would write specific things…and you and me watching would be like, ‘We would never do that in a game.’” [32:54]

8. Preparation and On-Set Stunts

[37:48 – 41:00]

• Michael’s sports background helped him, and he worked with a quarterback coach; some co-stars started from scratch.
• Tells a story of dislocating his shoulder while filming a critical game scene for season 6.
• Michael (on the injury): “I pushed myself up with my right arm…I could feel my shoulder just go clink.” [41:01]

9. All American’s Social Impact

[43:18 – 45:19]

• Michael praises how All American weaves real-world issues—race, police, mental health—into authentic character arcs.
• Highlighted the impact of seeing characters face struggles, grow, and thrive as a powerful message for the audience.

10. Career Dreams Beyond All American

[46:57 – 49:57]

• Michael wants to work with production companies like A24, appreciates their boundary-pushing films.
• Dreams of playing a villain, inspired by Heath Ledger’s Joker: “Villains can capture audiences a little bit more than superheroes sometimes.” [48:36]
• Would consider superhero roles, but is fascinated by powerful, captivating antagonists.

11. Light-Hearted Segments & Rapid Fire

[51:28 – 54:46]

• Fun “this or that” segment (LA vs. Ohio, football vs. basketball, memories vs. new experiences, etc.)
• Playful reflection on the All American cast’s zombie apocalypse survivability and dating preferences.

12. Motivational Speech to Mixed Kids

[55:47 – 57:21]

• Michael, directly:
  “Anything is possible. You put your mind to it, you work hard, you put in the hours—you can do anything you set your mind to. Don’t allow people…outside your life tell you that you’re not something you know you are…Use it as fuel. Love yourself, believe in yourself, and keep on digging. You’ll find gold eventually, baby.” [55:47]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• RG3: “Being Black is not a monolith…Love knows no color and why would it?” [16:25]
• Michael Evans Behling: “It just makes you feel like you’re in purgatory…people love mixed babies, they love the way we look, but they don’t want to claim you on either side.” [25:04]
• On mothers: “My mom did a really beautiful job of just giving me that understanding of I’m not like my classmates that are all white.” [12:00]
• On adversity: “Life will continue to knock you down. Keep swinging for the fence because someday you may just connect and hit that home run and find yourself living your dream.” [56:00]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Success: Earned or Given? – 03:04 – 07:35
• Mixed Identity & Adolescence – 08:01 – 10:43
• Parental Support & Racial Conversations – 11:19 – 13:00
• Intra-Community Policing – 14:22 – 16:37
• Impact of Denying Mixed Kids' Blackness – 22:47 – 24:56
• Dating, Hollywood, Public Pressure – 17:14 – 21:02
• All American Realism & Football Scenes – 31:08 – 34:58
• On-Set Stories & Injuries – 37:48 – 41:00
• All American’s Cultural Impact – 43:18 – 45:19
• Dream Roles & The Power of Villains – 46:57 – 49:57
• Fun Segments (Zombie Apocalypse, This or That) – 51:28 – 54:46
• Motivational Speech for Mixed Kids – 55:47 – 57:21

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Final Take

This episode offers an authentic, emotional, and at times humorous exploration of biracial identity, validation, and mental health. Michael’s candor about growing up mixed, his gratitude for self-aware parenting, and his reflections on success, representation, and growth on and off set deliver encouragement for anyone feeling torn between worlds. The show’s relaxed, supportive, and honest environment allows for nuanced conversations that challenge stereotypes and inspire listeners of all backgrounds.

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For those seeking inspiration, validation, or just an honest look behind the scenes of a beloved series, this is an episode you can’t miss.

Transcript

[A]

Can you explain to the people listening and watching what it does to a mixed child when you tell them they are not black from their own community?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it's basically saying to them, you're not worthy, you're not a person.

[A]

Yo, yo, yo. Welcome to out of pocket with RG3, hosted by your boy and the amazing 87 time all American. Oh, track and field. And.

[C]

Yep, also not 87.

[A]

Here we go. Starting all over. Cuz I got to intro him first.

[C]

Stop saying fake numbers on me.

[A]

It's not fake numbers. You know what? We're just going to keep it. This is a great introduction.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

We appreciate you guys liking and subscribing to our YouTube channel. We can't do this without you. So make sure you hit that like and subscribe button. And today we have a conversation with someone that we've wanted to talk to for a very, very long time. He is an actor. I think he's funny. So we can throw a comedian in there as well. Social media superstar and your favorite quarterback on All American, Michael Evans Bailey.

[B]

Boom. Hi.

[A]

Welcome to the show.

[B]

Thank you for having me.

[A]

Even though she prematurely introduced you earlier as a all American. So it fits so well.

[C]

I had to.

[A]

It really did.

[B]

It did fit. Are you really 87 all American?

[C]

Three times. It would be impossible for me to be an 87 time.

[B]

Yeah. That's a lot of school.

[A]

But it's a good hook, right?

[B]

It is a great.

[A]

It's a great hook.

[B]

What? What? What? Did you run? How did you run?

[C]

I was a track athlete. I was a hip athlete.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Okay. She's also Estonian, so we can do her full intro. Estonian, American. Just got American citizenship two years ago.

[B]

Congratulations.

[A]

So no. Incredible athlete. Went to Florida State.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's why I married her.

[B]

So, you know, because she's other than.

[A]

She's an amazing person. Damn. He's calling me all my.

[B]

I get it. I. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

[A]

No, no, she's. She is incredible. So All American. All American.

[B]

Yeah. All American. All American.

[A]

Thank you, guys.

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

Don't leave yourself out there.

[A]

So first question we like to ask.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Is how are you doing? Personally, not a lot of people ask that question. And we like to give a little mental health check right at the beginning.

[B]

Personally, that's a great, great question. Great way to start off. You know, my mom just left today, so I'm a little sad. Okay. But she. She was here for five, five days, so it was a great visit.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so I'm leaning into the positivity of that rather than, like missing her. So. And then I'm here and I've met him like crazy to me. A little like, like 10 year old Mike is losing his mind right now. Let me tell you that right now, because, like, you are in the list of quarterbacks that made me want to be a quarterback. Oh, wow. Absolutely. Unequivocally. So whenever this email hit my inbox, I was like, hands down, no questions. Absolutely, I'm in there. So thank you for the opportunity to be here. So I'm doing.

[A]

You know what?

[B]

I'm smiling, I'm doing great.

[A]

This is. Yeah, I see he's got a lot of Riz over here. He's making me feel good about myself. No, this is. It's the truth.

[C]

All right, baby, take it all the way to the deep end.

[A]

All right, here we go. Are you ready to go in the deep end?

[B]

Yeah. What's it? Where are we going?

[A]

All right, so there was a conversation with Anthony Mackie. He's Captain America. Okay. Right. And he talked about this age old quote of success is not given, it's earned. Right. I'm sure you've heard that. But he flipped it and he said this on the Pivot podcast. And he said, success is not earned, it's actually given.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it doesn't matter how hard you work, how much expertise you have, how good you are at what you do, somebody has to say it's you and they have to give you that opportunity. So regardless of whether you earned it or not, if they don't and say it's your turn.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't get that. Knowing your own experience with getting on All American, how do you feel? Do you feel that success is given in the sense that he's talking about or you, or do you still believe it's earned?

[B]

Low key. Yeah, I do believe him, actually. Especially in this business, Everything's subjective. Right. Everything is like. Allow me to. Like when I was getting cast, I did my studio test, did my network test. They said, we'll call you in a week. This was a Thursday. We'll call you in a week to let you know if you got it or not. Okay, great, cool. Whatever. Thursday morning, I get a call from my manager. They want to extend your extension. So basically another week. And I was like, okay, cool. Another night of sleepless nights. But they were trying to find their Spencer.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And they wanted to make sure that their Spencer wasn't, you know, a lighter tone or didn't look like me, potentially. Makes sense. And so. Because then you have two people that are too similar. And so they did. There's yin and yang. Me and Daniel were completely different. So there is a world where, yes, you had to work hard, but also you had to be chosen to get into the room.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That casting director had to look at my headshot and my resume with one credit and say, you know what? I think he might fit this role the same way with football. I have to believe too, because it's like, let's say you're a high school athlete and you're athletic, you're smart, you're gifted.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But there's a guy ahead of you that's a senior or maybe even a junior. Right. Or maybe even your same grade, but is. Has more of a connection to the coach.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But you're just as talented.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you're not getting your shot because you're not getting chosen. So I kind of do believe it in some fields, maybe not like corporate America. I don't know anything about that. But I have to believe, like. Or same with getting drafted.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Imagine if like you didn't get drafted the way you got drafted because the Redskins had somebody already similar to you or the next team had somebody similar to you. They're not gonna. They're not gonna sign two people with that, you know, rookie. Yep. That are dual threat quarterbacks.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

They wouldn't do that. So I have to believe that success is earned.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also given.

[A]

Given.

[B]

Because it's not like, oh, yeah, you know what? Walking down the street. You'd be great. Come here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There is a way, like, you had to work to get to where you are. I had to work to get to where I am. You as well. But if you're not chosen, especially in a subjective field, there are tremendous actors that I have met that, that. That just have not been seen by the right person.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Or the person who believes in them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I don't think that. I think that's very unfortunate. It's unfair. But that's just the name of the game. That's why I always say I was in the right place at the right time and I was very lucky.

[A]

And I think what you said is exactly right. It's not like, hey, you're just walking down the street and they're like, you know what? We're gonna make you Captain America.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's not what happened. He's been around forever. He's done.

[B]

He's been putting in the work.

[A]

He's been, as they say in a. How do you in a, in the fight industry? Right. You're a mid card fighter. Right. You're the, the gatekeeper, then you're the champion, now you're the pay per view guy. Mackie's been all of those things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's been in the right place at the right times, but he's put in the work, he's been on Broadway, he's done all these different things. And then it was like, then they were like, you, you're going to be Captain America. We're going to make Captain America black. And he just so happened to be the guy, period. In the right opportunity, the right moment, they pass in the shield. And it was given in that moment, but it was earned to even be position for it to be given. So I agree with you. You do have to work hard, you do have to be in the right places. But, but it is given. They, they are hand selecting who they want to pick out of the pot.

[B]

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

So in, in that conversation, there's a lot of parallels between your character Jordan Baker and your own life.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And you just tell me if my research is accurate or not. But you were adopted.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

By the Bailing family.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Your biological father's Nigerian biological mother was German.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you're mixed, but you're also black.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And having been born in Ohio, but you grew up in Indiana, how did your identity of being black and were you black enough? Are you not black enough? How did you, was that something that you had to deal with growing up and how did you manage that?

[B]

Absolutely. I mean, I think Jordan even speaks about it on the show of like, which box do I check? Type of situation. You know, black, white, whatever. I, I did have to deal with that. I did, I had, I had people in my high school, in my middle school that were like, oh, you're not black. You're like an Oreo is what they called me. Just like, that's a great term. I can't even be mad at you for that, like looking back. But, but it's like, oh, you act white. I'm like, how do I act the color?

[A]

Right?

[B]

Tell me. And I grew up with a white family. I have three white siblings. My parents are white. So it's like, I don't know. That really kind of bugged me and irked me as a kid and as a, as a teenager even, because I was like, I, I, I'm not up to your standard as of being black enough. Right. That was the whole thing. And so even whenever we touched on that in all American, I was like, wow, this serendipitous.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm really, like, reliving kind of what I already went through and how did I deal with it? I mean, I'm such a laid back, go with the flow type of guy in life. And so when I was really young and younger, like, middle school world, that it bothered me more, and I would, you know, be upset. But then as I got to high school, I was like, I don't. Like, my friends aren't saying this to me.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's more so people in passing or acquaintances or people in my class or things like that. So it was interesting because there just wasn't a whole lot of black people in Columbus.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It was a very, very small part of the population in Columbus, Indiana, which is where I grew up. And with the high school and so dealing with that, I didn't really have a place to connect with. I feel like I connected a lot more to my black side, if you will, out here.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because I was on a black show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Black showrunner. And I had black castmates and all the wonderful things. And I could kind of just tap into that a little bit more. And that's. That's, you know, parents didn't really know a lot of black people, just because there wasn't a lot in Columbus, you know, so we didn't really do a lot of black things. But I don't really think that there's black or white things. I just think that there's things.

[A]

I'm just. I agree with you.

[B]

I'm like. I'm like, all right, like, okay, you go to church on Sunday, and we go to church on Sunday. It's the same, but just different type of churches, maybe.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Different songs we're singing different. But, yeah, dealing with it as a high schooler, it was kind of brushed it off.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that was kind of. That's kind of still how I live today. Like, oh, I don't really know who you are if you don't have my number. Tom Holland. That's a great quote. If you don't have my number, then we should not be arguing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because I don't know you well enough.

[C]

I like that. How did your parents growing up, how did they deal with that? You know what I mean? Like, even in the show, like, Olivia kind of alludes to the fact that her mom doesn't really understand that the life that she lives and that she has to go through because the mom's white. I'm a white mom of little Black girls, mixed girls. So I kind of saw myself in the show, in the.

[B]

In Ms. Laura Baker.

[C]

Exactly. Because the daughter almost felt like the mom wasn't understanding her to the same level because she's black and she's not. So how did your parents deal with that growing up?

[B]

Yeah, no, my mom did a great job of that, actually. She did a really, really fantastic job. I can remember, I don't remember what. What the case was, but this was probably whenever I was 12 or 13, some national case happened where, you know, a black man was shot after being pulled over. And she had told me years prior, like, people are gonna look at you differently. I'm never gonna have to have this conversation with Matt, Andrea or Adam, my siblings. But you people, the world sees you differently. Unfortunately, that's just kind of the name of the game. And it's sad and it's not fair. That's. That's where we are. And so my mom did a really beautiful job of just giving me that just understanding of I'm not like my classmates that are all white and can run around and have mouths and pop off and things like that. So I got to give her. I mean, I love her. I love my mom. Love you, mom. But. But I also just got to say, like, the biggest thank you to her for being self aware. Yeah. And not being a Beverly Hills mother like Laura Baker. And no shade to Laura Baker. We love her. We will not say, but you know what I mean? Like this. My mom, easy to just close the. You know, she could have just lived her life and never touched on it at all. And. And then, you know, one day I could have said something mouthy to a cop when. Or. Or to somebody, an adult even.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And something bad, really something bad could have happened. But she just gave me the understanding of, like, the world sees you differently.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so you have to act accordingly. And doesn't mean, like, don't ever, like, dampen your personality. Correct. Be who you are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But at the same time, just, you can't act like some of your. Your clown classmates at times. Especially, like, even in school. Like. And then also. But we got that type of message from our football coaches.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

As well. And I don't know if you probably heard this, like, you get the biggest target on your back as a football player.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

The teachers want to. The teachers want to see you lose almost. I remember our high school coach was like, the teachers want to see you lose, so you better act right in classroom. Like, things like that. So we had a little Bit of those conversations, but less about the blackness, but just about the, you know, having a target on your back. Yeah, mom just kind of re solidified that. No.

[A]

So shout out to moms. That's. It's so huge to be, to be self aware.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like, you're not the only one. Like, I've. I've had those same things come to me, like, oh, you're not black enough. Oh, is this guy down for the cause? And I mean, I'm a dark skinned brother. And listen, I grew up in Copper's Cove, Texas, but I lived in New Orleans, Louisiana and Ivanville projects for a year because my entire family is from New Orleans, Louisiana. So she makes, she makes fun of me. Not makes fun of me, but notices when I'm around my family from New Orleans. I talk a little different. You know, my manager's a little bit different because you know what I'm saying? So. But it's just.

[B]

Yeah, I feel you.

[A]

It's just, it's just because you adjust to the environment that you're in. But it's not a, it's not a facade. It's not. You're not faking. You can be the same person that you are, but, but be able to communicate with different people in the it where you can meet them, where they're at. So I'm, I'm a full believer that, you know, being black is, it's not a monolith. You don't have to represent all the negative things. And if you speak with proper English and you don't sag and you don't gang bang and you, you like rap music, but you also like country music. If you date outside of your race.

[B]

That'S a big one.

[A]

Like, it's a huge one.

[B]

And do you get a lot of flack for that?

[A]

Oh my.

[B]

What, What? Do you receive the flack too? Or is it more just you?

[C]

Both of us. I. I'm from a full white country, no water race.

[A]

You said there's no black people in Indiana.

[C]

Doesn't there. There is none in Estonia.

[A]

I saw somebody, a black guy in Estonia, and I would have gave him some D. What's up? My dog, man? We in this together, brother. Never seen him. Never that had. I've been to Estonia 10 times. I've seen three black people. It's crazy. So we get it a bunch. I had a teammate once tell me that my mama raised me right. I would never date a white girl. See, I don't believe that. I'm like, what do you mean? So Your mom raised you to hate.

[C]

Your mom did not raise you right.

[A]

Your mom raised you to hate. That would be wrong. Why would we do to other people what was done to us? An eye for an eye makes everybody blind. So I'm a full believer that love knows no color. And why would it, as black men, we have to be better in our own community of not tearing down the versions of us that are different. Yeah, I don't. Listen. My family is from the hood. I don't tear them down for that. I meet them where they're at. I try to help them and show them how they can be better and how they can go to different places. But that doesn't mean I look down on them.

[B]

No, never.

[A]

You never do that. So why look down on any black man or black woman for being different? Doesn't make any sense to me.

[C]

Yeah, talking about relationships and marriage and all that, like, what are you. What is your dream relationally, you know.

[A]

What are you looking for?

[C]

Yeah, exactly. There you go.

[B]

A lady.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Lady friend. I don't know, man. Yeah, talk about clips. Lady friends.

[C]

Are your DMs open?

[B]

They. I mean, yeah, they're up. I don't look at them, but, yeah, you go talk to yourself in there if you want.

[A]

If you want.

[B]

There's a lot of people in there talking to themselves and it's, you know, appreciate. You appreciate the. Appreciate. Appreciate the support at the end of the day.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

I don't know. It's. It's been a long time since I've been in a relationship. It's like the last one was kind of. It didn't end the best for me.

[C]

It made your eyes twitch. I saw that.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I was out of town and it's just this. Some bad stuff happened back at our apartment. But anyways, like, I've dated since then, but I haven't really been in the relationship, and I've just. I haven't found somebody who's, I don't know, done all the things for me. I've. You know, I would love somebody who is, you know, supportive and I'll support you. Who can lend an ear.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I love. I love listening. It's one of my favorite things. Especially if, like, somebody that you love and care about is yapping about something that you love.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Makes it fills me up with joy. But whenever that's not reciprocated and, like, you're talking about something that you love and they're on their phone or doing something, it's like, okay, well, go Myself and that's really how it makes me feel is like, oh, you don't care. Anyways, yeah, I'm just gonna leave. So trying to find that. But I'm honestly not even looking for that. I'm not looking actively the last like year and a half, two years. I've just really been locked in the work. Right. I'm okay with that.

[C]

Is it also harder in the Hollywood circles to find that? Because Hollywood is, you know, you get married today, you get divorced tomorrow, you know.

[B]

I did that. I did that. Yeah, yeah, done. Yeah, with that. Did that too. That was wild. That was, that was the last one and it was just, it was dumb. It was so dumb why we did that. It was, it was all. For all the wrong reasons. And again. Yeah. The fact that it got picked up by certain outlets. I was like, God, Jesus Christ.

[C]

But well, we're glad you're on the other side.

[B]

I'm on the other side. Didn't lose too much money. We're okay. California is, you know, a lovely no fault state. So it's like, oh yeah, split it. Cool. But yeah, I'm not really looking unfortunately, maybe fortunately at the same time because I'm like, I got my dog, I got my house, I got my bag and I'm going to work. Right. And that's okay. Usually when I'm working, especially on All American, I'm so tired that like even if I do have somebody that I may be interested, I'm like, I don't even think I could go and talk to you because I'm not able to give you everything that I could possibly give you normally. And so I know I'm not in a place where I could do that. So I'm not even going to try to entertain it because then I'm just wasting your time and mine and I don't want to do that to you.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

So once I maybe find myself in a place of being ready and I'm not in the streets either. That's like a lot of my friends. I was celibate for a year and my friends were like, what do you mean you're a celibate? For years, it's celibate. Not really being sexual active for 365 days, like, but like why? I was like, there's really no reason. I just, I don't know. Not in the streets like that. And I'm not like chomping at the bit. Like once you go like two months without being active, it's like, oh, that's actually not bad. Whatever. I'm just chilling. But again, focused on work and working out and all the wonderful things. And it's okay. Like, did, like, before, like the super bowl or every. Like, big games, did they tell you.

[A]

Hey, hey, that's a. That's a definite, fellas. Yeah. They always tell you not to do those things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it can rob you of your strength or your edge or whatever it may be. So I definitely. I definitely abided by that for the majority of my career.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

I couldn't go two months.

[C]

I mean, my God, you're also a married man.

[B]

I'm not going too much, but I. I need that. I need.

[A]

I need type.

[B]

Type.

[A]

But I got two. Because these last two questions, both in the same field. Because what you just shared before that about being black, your mom talking about that, I thought that is such an impactful conversation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We posted a picture a couple months ago. Was it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Someone asked me, hey, what. What black women do you support? This is part of, like, them getting after me because she's white.

[C]

I'm European.

[A]

Yeah, she's European.

[B]

She.

[C]

Massive difference between she takes that. Very European. And being an American white woman.

[B]

Yeah. But, like, you present as white.

[A]

Present as white.

[B]

You're European. White.

[A]

You're European.

[B]

European. What?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I'm saying. So appreciate you explaining that, too. I try to. I try. But, you know, it takes.

[B]

You're different from an American woman. I will give you that.

[A]

It takes reinforcement.

[B]

I'm sorry. I hope I haven't offended you.

[C]

No, definitely not.

[A]

So I posted a picture of myself with our four daughters.

[B]

Love that.

[A]

Right. Mixed black girls. And. And it went viral. So then in the comments, a lot of people were saying they're not black.

[C]

And I'm saying because they came out.

[A]

Of a white woman because a white woman gave birth to them. And I'm like, so then I'm not.

[B]

Black by that laundry. Yes.

[A]

That's what they would.

[C]

You're also not black, so.

[A]

But you are black and they are black.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So from a. We know that you do a lot of work with mental health, and that shows up in your character, Jordan Baker on All American. Can you explain to the people listening and watching what it does to a mixed child when you tell them they are not black from their own community.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it's basically saying to them, you're not worthy, you're not a person. It goes back to that simple conversation of when I'm filling out a government form, what box do I check if I'M not black enough for you. I'm not white enough for you that I'm just here. It just makes you feel like you're. I don't know, like. Like. Like it makes you feel lost. It makes you feel like people don't see you. Like, I know I'm real. I can touch me. I can feel my heart beating, blood coursing through my veins. But you're sitting here telling me you at the black barbershop or whatever is like, oh, no, Mike ain't black. He's that Oreo boy. You know, which is funny, but, like, not. It's. It just. It just makes you feel inadequate. It makes you kind of just like, lose yourself to a degree. Because then you're like, whoa, your sense of identity is. Is escaped.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah. I'm sure you guys as parents are instilling them. Instilling in them who they are as people.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Connecting them to both sides. The European, white and the, you know, black. No, but, but, but, but it makes you. Maybe not as a kid, hopefully not for your daughters, but like in middle school and high school or more so middle school, I felt like, this sense of. I don't really know where I belong. And then I felt that again as I was in, like, my early 20s, actually, because I was. I. I realized how different I was from everybody else out here to a degree. So then it took me, like, finding myself and like, just really like, who is Mike? Who am. Who am. Who are you? I am gay. You are gay. Yeah. But sorry to. Sorry to ruin that. I am you. I have you. Who's on first? Yeah. Sorry. I can't be serious for too. Too long. Obviously forever. I gotta laugh. But, yeah, that. The sense of identity, it just. It just makes you kind of feel like you're outer space, floating. Yeah.

[C]

And I feel like people. People are so contradicting themselves because everybody loves mixed people.

[B]

They really do.

[C]

They love mixed babies. They love.

[B]

They love the way that we look. But.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

They. Yeah, but then they don't.

[C]

Don't want to claim you on either side.

[A]

They don't want to validate your experience.

[B]

We're just. We're in purgatory. We're on either sides.

[A]

So I just want to say your experience, your. Your black experience, even being adopted and being raised by a white family is still a black experience. Thank you. And I want to validate that experience.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

So, you know, we were talking before, you know, we started the show just about, like, having people on the show that we. That we want to talk to that we're interested in. We love the show All American. The way you portray yourself, the way you guys tackle tough topics and issues is just something that we're captivated by. She's actually re watching season four right now.

[B]

Amazing.

[C]

I have to remind myself of all the stuff before I go and watch season six because I've been trying to hold off.

[A]

Yeah. So before we get into all the great work you're doing there and. And other things that you're doing with mental health and in the industry, wanted to ask you a question of you.

[C]

Could play the quarterback in the NFL.

[B]

Do you think I could play a quarterback?

[A]

Do you think that you can play quarterback?

[B]

No, no, no. I mean, do I think I could take a snap and maybe complete a screen pass? Maybe, I think. Or a quick slant? Maybe?

[A]

I think. I think you could. I think. I think you could do that.

[B]

That's high praise.

[A]

100%. It's talked about, you know, can you play quarterback in the NFL? We appreciate your honest assessment of what you think, but.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

One thing I want to ask you is a big part of playing quarterback is being able to repeat the play that the coach tells you in your helmet.

[B]

I've heard about this.

[A]

So you're gonna be the second person who does this segment. Let me just tell you, you can't do any worse than the guy that did this one earlier. So the first person to do this was way out there. Hilarious segment, but give it to me.

[B]

Coach, what's the play?

[A]

We got the play here. I want to see. We're going to create a leaderboard, and we'll see how many of these you can either get right or how many words you can get right of the play.

[B]

Okay. All right.

[A]

So first play.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Quest, right. 351Y slant, Z, spacing, F seam. You got this?

[B]

Quest right.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

351.

[A]

There you go. He's already in the wind. He's already leading.

[B]

Is it Z wing?

[A]

No.

[B]

Crap.

[A]

It's okay. It was quest, right. 351 Y slant, Z, spacing, F scene.

[B]

Quest 1. 351 Y wing, Z space.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Something. Right.

[A]

Okay. He got back on track and then went back to the beginning of the play. So now we're gonna start it with a simpler play.

[B]

So that wasn't.

[A]

So that.

[B]

That was complex.

[A]

That was complex.

[B]

Okay. Okay. Okay.

[A]

All right. Gun trio, right, 37 door.

[B]

Okay. Gun trio, right, 37 door.

[A]

There we go. One on one.

[B]

Ready?

[A]

There you go. Let's go. Double right squeeze. 300 jet. Okie.

[B]

Double right, squeeze. 300 jet okie.

[A]

There we go.

[B]

See?

[A]

All right. All right, let's go. Double right, three, jet, wide branch, tail.

[B]

Double right, three. Wait. There you go. Double right, wide branch.

[A]

Wide branch is correct.

[B]

Double right, wide branch.

[A]

Three something.

[B]

What was it? Squeeze.

[A]

Yep. So double right, three jet, wide branch, tail.

[B]

Three jet wide branch, tail.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

All right, so then the last one isn't as hard as the first one, but it's.

[B]

It's hard. Okay.

[A]

One gun text, right. One quarterback draw can. 350 Leo Twig.

[B]

One gun text, right. Quarterback draw can tech. I lost the last four.

[A]

All right, so that can is like you're killing the play to go the next play.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

350 Leo Twig.

[B]

350 Leo Twig.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

See, that's actually pretty good. If I did a mini camp, maybe I could know this.

[A]

I think you would. I haven't called plays in three years, and I was, you know, looking at these the other day, and I'm like, for me, it's. It's easy because it's formation protection play. That's how you call it. So here's where you guys line up. Here's a protection on the play. Here's the play call. But for other people, it's like reading a foreign language.

[B]

Gibberish.

[A]

It's a gibberish. And you're like, well, how do you know that? Well, I still remember what these plays were back in the day play. But I think that's part of what people don't understand. It's not just about big guys running after you or, you know, having to be able to maneuver the pocket. It's also just being able to relay the play to the team so they know what to do. But you're already in the lead, so.

[B]

Yeah, because everybody's listening for their own part.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Right.

[A]

If I'm a right tackle, I know I'm line up on the right every single play, but, yeah, I just got to know what the play is. So unless they told me to go somewhere else.

[C]

What if they haven't studied? But then what do they do?

[B]

Yeah, then they look at the quarterback in the. In the. In the huddle, if you call a play and one of your receivers is like, I can't remember that.

[A]

Well, I abide by the. I would rather them know what to do than not ask me what to do.

[B]

But I'm saying if they don't know what, then I tell them. Oh, then you tell them.

[A]

I had a. I had an Offensive lineman in college who's a first round pick, he'll remain nameless. Danny Watkins. He was a Canadian firefighter and in games he would forget what to do or who to block. But when I tell you this, man, if he knew who to block, he would block him into.

[B]

As soon as he got his hands.

[A]

On you, they weren't going anywhere.

[B]

Copy.

[A]

So I started realizing as we would come to the line of scrimmage after I called the play in the huddle or we have, you know, a one word play from the sideline, he would be looking back at me like this. And when he gave me this, this look, I knew he had no idea who he was blocking.

[B]

Did that almost like what, like create fear in you? You know, like the linebacker, multiple times.

[A]

It created fear because I'm like, how does my left tackle not know who to block?

[B]

Right.

[A]

But then after realizing why he was doing it, I would walk to the line and say, danny, block him. Just like he would block him to smithereens.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

And so I didn't, it didn't bother me. So when receivers are in the huddle and they're like, hey, what do I have? If he doesn't know he has a slow go route, a slant and go or a dig, I just tell him what to run.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because at least now I know what he's going to run. He knows what he's going to run and I don't.

[B]

On the same page.

[A]

We're on the same page. And as you know, like with anything, as long as you're on the same page, you know, everything else falls into place.

[B]

I love that.

[C]

It's true.

[A]

One of the things that has been highly contested about All American is the fact that the football playing in the actual show is just like absolutely non realistic at times and just utterly bad.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Especially early on in the show. Did that ever bother you? Because you know, you played like you said you played the game with one opportunity but you ran. And like you've seen them run track in shows and you're like, why are they running? Same arm, same leg. That's not how they do it in real life.

[B]

Why are they crushing their body like this? Yeah.

[A]

So like, did that bother you or.

[B]

Yes, yes, it did. And you know, we had, we had a great company game changing films, you know, who does a lot of sports movies, a lot of sports TV shows. And, and they had all of the, the, I guess the things to, to make a great show. And I think that they did. And I think the football was, it was a mixture of people, us trying to figure out, you know, what's the best cam, camera angle for all of this. Because this is. This is new for everybody. Right. This is the first time. And. And so we were finding that, and I think that we kind of found our legs later on a little bit more. There's. There's still times where I'm like, wait, what do you. What do you mean? What. Okay, do you want me to fumble it? And then there were certain situations that would happen where I'd be talking to our stunt coordinator, Justin, and it'd be like, we would never, ever do this. Yeah, they would never, ever. He's like, it's in the script. This is what the writer wants. And so it. A lot of the time it was. And this is no shade to our writers at all. But there's a lot of times that some of our writers who weren't football fans.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Would write specific things, moments in the script that you and me watching be like, this doesn't mean we would never do that in the game. What do you mean we would never do that?

[A]

That would never happen.

[B]

But it had to be done for story or for character or for whatever. And so there'd be a lot of moments where I'd be like, I don't even. Like, is there a way we can, like, tweak this a little bit, Justin? And he's like. Like, yeah, just go out there and do what you do, which was, you know. But we all. We had a bunch of ex college athletes, ex high school athletes, some ex NFL athletes that are coming out and playing. And so that was really cool to be able to hear their stories and, you know, take from. From their stories and, you know, put them into the. Okay, let me put that in my pocket and use that in a later scene, for sure. But, yeah, the football plays. I know that we get judged, especially with, like, their shows, like Friday Night Lights. Yeah. The way that they shot that. I wish that we shot it like that because it was like long lens. They didn't know where the cameras were.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Everybody was just doing it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm sure there was more stunt double work there. I think on our show, it was more us doing it. Yeah, to a degree. It was me, Daniel, Cody, Hunter, really out there playing, because I have a football background. Hunter has a football background. Daniel did not have a football background. And, you know, he used his double a lot more, but he came from the uk. First time he touched the football was whenever we met our doubles on set.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

On Set. So, you know, give him grace, please. But. But he also grew significantly, I will say. You know, he carried a football around with him all the time. He was always asking me. Yes. So what happens on post corner? I'm like, well, you go for a post, and then you go to the back corner of the end zone. Back pylon. Okay, cool. So, like, randomly throughout the time, like, wherever we'd be hanging out, he would just ask me, like, what is this slant again? And, like, 1, 2, 3. Yeah, go for the opposite goal post. So it was just. It was fun to see everybody grow in that regard, But I understand that, you know, especially people with football backgrounds. Yeah. Watching the show, you're like, man, I just wish it was a little bit more intense at times and a little bit more. I don't know. I don't even know what the word is, but. But. But I get what you're saying.

[A]

It was super intentional. Because I've been a part of sets. Whether it's a commercial set.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where they want you to do something. They're like, hey, drop back to pass. And you drop back to pass. It's like, no, drop the ball a little bit so we can see your face.

[B]

Yes. And I'm like.

[A]

And when you make this throw, do it like. It's like, well, I wouldn't throw like that. And I wouldn't do that. They're like, yeah, but we need it for. For the shot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I would see scenes early on in the show, and it'd be. It'd be Daniel, you know, isoed by himself, running a route.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Daniel running was just almost. I could put on highlight clips for.

[A]

That early on in the show. It was. You know, But I think that there would be no DB within 10 yards of him.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because the whole point was being intentional to show him running the route so that you would be captivated by it. So I actually thought early on in the show, it was done on purpose. Like, the football was so bad on purpose to get the shot. Not only to get the shot, but also to make people talk about it. Because it wasn't. It was a talking point for. It was it For a long time.

[B]

Talking point. Yeah.

[A]

So I thought, like, I think they're doing this on purpose. I think they know, and they see it, and they're like, yeah, that's not the greatest football, but it'll make people tweet about it. It'll make people talk about it. And we're getting a great shot of the receiver running the route, and the guy Making the catch and you making the throw. So maybe this is done on purpose. That's what I thought.

[B]

It's an interesting take. I don't know what their intentions were. I don't believe that.

[C]

You are so out of pocket.

[B]

I don't believe that to be the case. Yeah. And, you know, it's. It's. Social media is such a crazy place. Toxic to dog pound. And everybody was very quick to judge, kind of all of us. And. And I know it's. It's tough. You know, you're putting yourself out there, especially for, I gotta say, Daniel again, just because he came to America never touching a football.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And he. And he has. He has transformed into. Into somebody who I believe is. Is a lot more smoother and a lot more. I don't know, he looks more believable now than season one. And he would say the same exact thing. And the arms were a big thing for me too, coming from track. I was like, yo, brother, cheek the cheek. Now cheek the cheek. We can't be crossing. So. But. But yes, that's an interesting take. That.

[A]

And I say that not being critical because now when you watch All American, the football's way better. Like, I think it's gotten much better. It's gotten much more believable. The way you guys shoot it, I feel like is better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think even yourself having a football background and a sports background, even you have gotten better.

[B]

I think so too.

[A]

Have you worked with anybody to do that? Did Daniel work with anyone? Are you pulling inspiration from anyone to.

[C]

Do prepare for the role?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. They gave a comparison to Jordan, to Cam Newton. Oh. Oh. And I was like, I'm not nearly as big as.

[A]

Do they know how big?

[C]

Cam.

[A]

That's a big guy.

[B]

He's big like, he's a tank. Like. Like, I don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I think they were talking more about the mentality. Like, you think about that. If you see that clip of him, like, the ball's coming right at the defenders. Like, the ball's coming right here. Oh, that's cute. You watch tape?

[A]

Yeah, that's cool.

[B]

Watch this. And then they get the touchdown. They had that mentality for Jordan of kind of being that really cocky, but. But cocky because he's good. Because he's good type of situation for Jordan. But as far as, like, prepping for the role, I do have, I had a quarterback coach that I worked with. His name's Brian Bennett. He played at Oregon, and then he played in the cfl and he went to the Colts for A little bit. He helped me kind of just tighten everything up. But a lot of my doubles also were, you know, one year, two year removed from college. And so I'd be out there, you know, spinning it, warming up, and they'd be like, yo, just try this. Really, like really, really snap your wrist. Really snap your. Because I'll snap it. But like, they're like, no, really snap the wrist. And, and next thing you know, my spirals are getting tighter.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And you know, the ball is coming and it's. But I, it was nice to be able to play the football games. Those are, those were my favorite days.

[A]

Right.

[B]

In the earlier seasons because I get to go out and play. I got fresh legs, whatever. When it's 6, 7 in the morning and you've been shooting since 5pm Then it's a little bit more tiring.

[A]

Makes sense.

[B]

And you're like, wow, I can't wait to go home. But, but it's because it's cold, you know, it's not cold. It's cold in LA and, you know, 45 degrees, 50 degrees. You've been playing football all night long. But again, there's almost a beauty to it. It's almost just like you, you're with your boys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're with your team. And, and we're going to set up a camera. That's going to take 30 minutes. Okay. We're going to go on the other end of the field and run and do, do the, do the flag tree. Yeah, the flag tree. The flag.

[A]

The route tree.

[B]

The route tree. Thank you. So, preparation. Yeah. I had a quarterback coach. Physicality. I have a trainer that I just worked out with, Scott Benzing. He was great and he got us in shape for all the seasons. And, but like that, like the, the sports movement. The stunt coordinators always trusted me, which was great. Like, Justin was like, we were, we, we could, we could double. Could do it if your arm hurts. But like, no, I'm, I'm. Do it. Hit me. I, like, I don't know.

[A]

There's something about getting it.

[B]

Tell me, tell me.

[C]

You understand.

[B]

There's something about getting hit. Like, all right, Jordan's gonna throw this pass and get hit right after.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

We would do it. And then, and then the, you know, the guy, the man, the stunt double, the stunt, whatever man hitting me would be like, okay, here. And like really hold me like a bear. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Give me a pop. Give me a little pop. Right? And so they would allow that until they'd Allow me, Daniel Cody Hunter, to do our own stunts to a degree. Until I dislocated my shoulder.

[A]

Oh, at the Rose bowl, you dislocated your shoulder?

[B]

Oh, yeah. It was. It was. It was. It was literally. Have you seen season six?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

A national championship. The last play. It's a one shot. It's a beautiful one shot that Daniel Ezra directed the episode. He, you know, we had a Steadicam basically following us the whole time. It was great. And pitch the ball to him. I'm running beside each other. And then there's one more man to block.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Jordan blocks him. But in the. In, like, the second block, I don't know what happened. Second block. I blow him up with my shoulder. And then I'm like, wait a second. I lose my footing, and I land with my arms out like this. And I could just feel my shoulder go clink. And so then I tried to get up, and I was like, nope, can't get up. Cameras are still rolling, though. Daniel's in the end zone celebrating. Our team's coming off the sideline. Celebrating. My buddy Alex. The theater is like, yo, Mike, get up. I'm like, I can't get up. And I'm like, like. So I'm like. I push myself up with my right arm, and I get up, and I'm like, my shoulder is. And. And, like, we still have to celebrate. So I'm jumping around like this, like. Yeah. With one arm down. If you go back, you might be able to see it, yell cut. And the stunt coordinator comes off, and I'm like. I'm like, mike, my shoulder. It's. It's. He's like, I know. I saw it. So I went back to the training room and spent, like, the next 30 minutes trying to pop it back in, but it was swollen. It was already swollen by the time I got back there. They couldn't get it back in. I was in the most pain I've ever been in my life. Probably. I had to go to the hospital. As soon as the morphine or whatever the hell they gave me hit my system, pain was gone. Great. And then they were like, all right, just lean back and do this motion. I did it. Pop right back in.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Yeah. So now they're not. So, like. Which really sucks, because with the new generation in season seven, they're all athletic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're like, I want to do my own stuff. And they're like, nope, absolutely not.

[A]

Obviously, they won't let them do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So when does season seven come out?

[B]

So season seven's been airing on the cw. It's already out, but it won't hit.

[C]

We're too much of Netflix, people.

[B]

And that's fair. I get it. It's. It's so easy. Who has cable these days? I mean, I have YouTube TV for sports, but other than that, I feel like most people are like streaming.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, whatever. So I think it'll come out second week of May.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Would be my guess. It's like seven days after our last episode airs on the cw.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And then it'll be there. You can get your binge on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll never forget one time I was walking in Miami and with my friends and this gotta be 50 year old man was like QB1. I was like, no way. I was like, what are you doing? But, but, but, yeah, I mean it was a family show. And you know, again too like we talked about a little bit earlier was like we talked about real situations and that's one of the things that I really praised this show for in the first few seasons was we could take something that was kind of going on in the real world or something that's, that's an issue in the real world and, and bring it and apply it to these characters and apply it to the stories that we're telling seamlessly. And I love that when a show can almost make you think differently.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like whenever Spencer and Jordan get pulled over episode three and Jordan being from Beverly Hills, very privileged and looking the way that he looks, has never experienced police the same way Spencer has. And so that was something that was real and authentic and happening in our world at the time and continue continues to happen. And I praise the show for doing that. And, and I think that was NK who actually wrote that episode because it's just real. It's something that's real. And also just weaving in the mental health aspect of it with, you know, Greta's character, Leila was going through what she was going through and continues to go through. But, but then also seeing people win and seeing how this person has struggled with this for the first two seasons and now season four, five, six, they're, they're, they're blossoming.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Into a beautiful flower. And I think to be able to not be bogged down and, and keep showcasing the negative side of whatever the case may be, whatever the not issue, but whatever maybe be holding them back, whether it's, I don't know what it is, but to be able to see them grow in the, in the, in the, in the 6:7. Seven years has been really beautiful. But, yeah, I think that that would be it for me.

[C]

It's an addicting show, like. And I think because of that, because of the real life situations, because I have probably watched all five seasons six times.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every night.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Every night. Binge watches.

[B]

What do you.

[C]

So when I go back, it's my comfort show.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's so interesting because I feel like it's really intense for a comfort show sometimes, like, we get.

[C]

You don't know me like that.

[A]

I'm just gonna laugh.

[B]

Look at his eyes, everybody.

[A]

No, it's like, if you need help, baby. No, she definitely watches it all the time. And like, you were talking about the football playing in it. It wasn't a turn off. Like, oh, my God, like, what are they doing? I don't want to watch this. Like, I'm a. As a broadcaster, I love storytelling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So what you just described for each individual character makes people latch on to that character because they see themselves in that character.

[B]

That's the thing, right.

[A]

That's why we like sports so much. That's why people love their favorite team. Because maybe they see themselves in the head coach or they see themselves in the walk on. Who didn't have any opportunities, but found his way to get a scholarship and now he's the best receiver on the team. Like, they might not ever have lived that. That experience, but they can see themselves in that and think in their own lives, well, maybe this could become me as an accountant or as whatever that I'm doing that I can achieve that, that level of success at this point. What. What is next for you? What do you want? Like, who do you want to work with? That would be like the dream opportunity.

[B]

The production company 824.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I think that they are producing films that are really pushing the boundaries, pushing the limits. There's this new genre that I feel like has come out that's like horror comedy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And there's something about that I don't know, watching. I don't know if I'd ever want to do it, but at least watching it is. Is really entertaining. But I mean, they've got. They've got films like Warfare coming out very soon. A group of, I want to say, six to eight Marines in Iraq. Real life story of how they mission went wrong. I don't know. I'm very excited to see it, but I just believe, you know, the substance was in there. Demi Moore was just nominated for an Oscar.

[A]

Oh, the substance, yeah.

[B]

You know, just like Those really kind of kooky, off the wall films would be something that I would love to work. I'd love to work for their production company movies. I mean, superhero movies. If I do get the opportunity to play in a superhero movie, I'd want to be the villain.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

I don't. I like the idea of being the villain in. Because I am fascinated with villains. My favorite character of all time is the Joker.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Heath Ledger's Joker.

[A]

Ledger's Joker. Specific, you know, very specific. Different Jokers.

[B]

Very much so. And. And you wanted to understand him. You. You hated him because you're like, you're not even making any sense.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

You want to burn the building down, but, like, there's nobody even in it. The. The chaos that was associated with him. And. And he just. He just acted. He just was evil.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He had no reason. He just was. Wanted to spread evil. And so I think that villains kind of can capture audiences a little bit more than superheroes sometimes. Because there's. Sometimes whenever you're watching a villain, you're.

[A]

Like, I kind of with you. Yeah.

[B]

Wait a minute. Like, I know Batman's like Batman, but like, whatever you're doing, not that I want you to go kill these people, but you're doing something. You're doing something that's captivating me.

[A]

We've all got that villain inside of us, right? We don't all have Superman. I can fly inside of us. But we. We all have some sinister thoughts here and there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I find that interesting that you'd want to play the villain.

[B]

You know, even like no country for Old Men.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I can't remember his name, but the. The villain in that, he's so just. I don't even know, just evil, but, like, you just almost want. I want to be him. I want to be that type of character. Sure. If a superhero role was offered, then I'd consider it and think about it absolutely unequivocally. Who wouldn't? But I would much rather be on. On the other side and be the negative energy coming in and. And trying to make audiences love me.

[A]

Love you. Okay. Oh, that's good.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Love me for being evil. Like, it's somebody who's so evil that you can't help but love them because they're playing it so well. That would be a dream for sure.

[A]

That's all that. That's. That's deep. Now, I thought you would play like Light Skin Blade or something.

[B]

Light Skin Blade.

[A]

Light Skin Blade would Be awesome. You know, they just like. I think they shelved the movie or something happened to it, which is unbelievable to me. But like, I've always loved the Blade trilogy, but there's no, you know, it's a dark skinned brother, Wesley Snipes. They don't get much darker than Wesley Snipes, so. And I love Wesley. Love you, man. They shouldn't have sent you to jail for the tech stuff, but light skinned Blade would be pretty sweet.

[B]

Light skinned Blade?

[A]

Yeah, it's like, you know, you see.

[B]

Like Blades, like now.

[A]

I wasn't thinking of that. I was thinking Blade is Blade. So you don't think Blake could ever be light skinned?

[B]

No, not to. No. I mean, right. Blade is.

[A]

Blade is Blade.

[B]

Blade is a dark skinned.

[A]

Dark skinned brother that can walk.

[B]

Blade is Blade. And then they got McLightness coming in, Lightness coming. And that's me. And I'm just like. Yeah, I'm just. I'm mewing in the back now. No. And I'm just. I'm just helping him out, you know? Yeah, that. Yeah, I could buy that.

[A]

No, that'd be fun. I. I love your take on the villain, though, because that's the. The best villains make you fall in love with them, right? They make you be like, you know.

[B]

He'S not that bad. Yeah. Oh, man. He's not that bad. Yeah, yeah. It's like, what is that? What does that mean? He's like, he's the best guy around. What about the murder? What murder? You know.

[C]

One more question about online American.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Which castmate from All American would survive a zombie apocalypse?

[B]

Oh, I don't know. I. A lot of probably. I don't know, Tay, maybe myself. A lot of people don't have. Don't have weapons, and I think that that's. That's their downfall out here. And so I. I'm not that I'm from Indiana, so I have. I have weapons, and so I think that I would fare decently well. I'm trying to think about who has like, outdoor experience. Me and Cody, I think would be all right. Okay.

[C]

In a zombie, who would get eaten first?

[B]

Oh, Greta. Greta o'. Neill. Easily, easily. No shade, Greta. Love you.

[C]

But you would have to protect her.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You know, if, you know, we. We could protect her. But survival instincts on that one are tough. Yeah.

[C]

All right, we have a segment called this or that.

[B]

This or that.

[A]

Oh, here we go.

[C]

LA or Ohio.

[A]

Oh, God, that's really tough.

[B]

Weather. Wise la, but people. Wise Ohio. Okay.

[C]

Football or basketball?

[B]

Football.

[C]

Action movies. Or romantic comedies, rom coms.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Lose all your memories or lose your ability to make new ones.

[B]

Deep. Lose my ability to make new ones.

[A]

There you go.

[C]

Know how you die or know when you die when.

[B]

I want to see the timer.

[C]

Restart your life with everything you know now. Or fast forward 10 years with $10 million.

[B]

Restart my life. God. Go back to being a kid. I guess that one, I mean, 10 million is not bad, though. Let's fast forward 10 years. Yeah, 10 years.

[C]

Unlimited success. But always alone. Or average life with deep love and connection.

[B]

It's tough, you know, probably alone.

[C]

That's sad.

[B]

I have my dog. I have. I have my little Yorkie baby girl. My little sweetie pie, honey bunches. And yeah, you know, she. She's enough for me now. Right now.

[C]

And right off of that, is this or that for the ladies.

[B]

Oh, oh.

[C]

Romantic getaway or Netflix and chill.

[B]

I like to get away.

[A]

I like that.

[B]

Get out of town.

[C]

Date night out or cozy night in?

[B]

Depends on the day of the week. But. But the Saturday night we're going out, let's go out.

[C]

Spontaneous trip or plan?

[B]

Vacation planned? I think so. I like both. I don't know.

[C]

Cook together or order takeout.

[B]

Depends on the day of the week. It depends. Like, did I just. Did we just work today? Or like. Or. Or is this the weekend? If it's the weekend, sure. Let's throw down together. But if not, I am great at Uber Eats. I am a good orderer at Uber Eats, let me tell you. Oh, man, that's funny.

[C]

All right, be with someone who's clingy or distant.

[B]

Clingy. Latch on. I love a monkey on my back.

[A]

Yeah, go now. Get on the back now.

[B]

Let's go.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Hold on.

[C]

I lost my. I lost it.

[B]

You lost it. You lost it. It's okay.

[C]

All right. Argue to fix it or stay silent to keep the peace.

[B]

Can I change the word? I mean, I guess argue to fix it, but, like, let's. Let's. Let's have conversation. Yeah, Okay.

[C]

I like it.

[A]

At the end of every episode, we just want. We ask our guests to look at their camera, the hero camera. Right.

[B]

Hero.

[A]

The hero shot. And. And give a motivational speech. And now yours is different than others because you have a different experience. And we find that throughout these conversations. So if you were talking to the kid who is mixed race, who is trying to find their identity and understand who they are in this world that's trying to make them be in no man's land and not claim them, what would you say to that young person to motivate them to go out and chase their dreams.

[B]

Anything is possible. You put your mind to it. You work hard, you put in the hours. You could do anything you set your mind to. Don't allow people outside of your circle, outside of your family, outside of your life tell you that you're not something that you know you are. Life will continue to knock you down. Life will continue to throw curveballs, keep swinging for the fence, because someday you may just connect and hit that home run and find yourself living your dream. And you find yourself surrounded by people who love you and accept you for who you are. And at the same time, wear those headphones and block out the noise from the people that you don't need to hear or who don't see your vision, the people who don't believe that you can go be great in your own field, Whatever field it is that you choose it to be, block them out. Or do what I did and use it as fuel. Whenever I used to tell people, I'm leaving school, I'm gonna try this acting thing out. Columbus, Indiana, they're like, yeah, okay. And they would tell me, it's not gonna happen, but I'd say, okay, let me prove you wrong. Prove everybody wrong. Find who you are. Love yourself, smile at yourself, take care of yourself, and then believe in yourself. That's the biggest thing. And find people who believe in you. And keep on digging. You'll find gold eventually, baby. How was that?

[C]

Beautiful.

[B]

Is that all right?

[A]

Oh, my God. Thank you for coming on the show. Thanks for having me having this conversation. You're not. You don't just play an all American on tv. You're also an all American guy. So we. We appreciate you, everyone that's. That's listening and watching at home or on the road on your way to work. We appreciate you guys for. For checking in with us. This growth that we're experiencing is all because of you guys. So make sure you continue to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and tell your friends, because conversations like this with Michael Evans bailing are why we do this. It's to get to know people at a deeper level and to have conversations that we feel like you guys want to, want to hear about. So appreciate you coming on the show, man.

[B]

Appreciate the opportunity.

[C]

Thanks.

[B]

This has been awesome. Cheers. Cheers.