A (3:39)

Yeah. So before we get started, I'll throw you a quick curve here. So. Yeah, but what is your number one go to strategy for surviving as a, as a busy mom, a busy career? Throwing in adhd, Is it one thing that you can't live without? Is it a collection of things? You know, some people answer this in, in many different ways, but is there one thing you can think of off the top of your head that you cannot do without as a busy person with ADHD?

B (4:13)

Yes. My earphones, my ear, my AirPods, they really have helped me so much. Like, I love listening to podcast, I love true crime. And just having something like that in the background has really, in some ways helped me focus. It helps me escape a little bit when I need to escape. If I need to take a walk, if I'm waking up in the morning, you know, having my first cup of coffee and I just get to have like, some of my own relaxing time, like, that has actually become a real, really big thing for me. And it's sort of twofold. One, there's something, I'm enjoying the distraction, but I have come to learn that I am really sound sensitive, which is ironic because I'm also a very loud person. But when you're living with somebody with autism who is dysregulated and you hear screams and yells just randomly or stomps, I have a quick startle response. And quite frankly, having those AirPods nearby has really helped me to regulate myself quicker and to not be as sort of like, on edge.

A (5:21)

Yeah, no, I, I, I, I was.

B (5:23)

Not expecting to shill for AirPods today, but.

A (5:27)

Well, there you go. So I have those, I have those. Bose. Yeah. Noise canceling. Because when I go to the gym, which is one of my kind of must haves, where, you know, regardless of how many times a week I get there, there's just the, the music's blaring, there's other things going on, there's people talking, I hear everything, and I just gotta, I gotta shut it out. So. Because I gotta do what I, because I, I, I'm the type of person that hears everything, like if you go to a restaurant or someplace like that. So, so I'm, I'm totally with you on that. And I'm the type of guy, like I said, loves dead silence. So I thrive in that environment. So.

B (6:10)

But I am the exact opposite. I would not have passed the bar exam if I, if there weren't like coffee shops to study in because I need that around me.

A (6:20)

No. And I, that, that's a perfect example of. All of us are different. Right. You know, there's, there's no one like playbook for adhd. So.

B (6:30)

Yeah, no, which goes back to your point of meeting people where they are because, yeah, it varies for sure.

A (6:36)

Right. So being in this ADHD world for a while, I do realize it is actually quite common for someone to get an ADHD diagnosis later on in life. And I'm not talking like 90s, I'm talking, you know, you know, midlife, where we, we figure it out. So kind of walk us briefly through how that kind of came about. What were some of the things that said, you know, maybe I should go see somebody?

B (7:08)

Yeah. And I, ADHD was 100% not on my radar at all. I lived in a pretty high stress, high intense living environment with my son. So I thought it was just your run of the mill stress and anxiety. And I was really frustrated by my own inability to, what I felt was my own inability to keep it together, to calm down, my own emotional regulation. Now there are factors that, you know, influence that when you're in that kind of environment. But I just felt like it was plus for me, we'll just say. And at the same time, you know, I've been a lawyer for 20 years. I was starting this coaching business and in this coaching business at the same time, it was all self directed by me. And I was really struggling with that. And so, yeah, at one point I remember saying to my son's therapist who was working with the family, what is happening with me? Like, what is going on? Is this like perimenopause what's happening? And she says to me, well, you do realize you have adhd. And it was just like one of those things where it was like the lights went on essentially, because yeah, yes, it really did click for me. I mean, I grew up with a sister with adhd and my, when I talked to my mom about it, she's like, oh yeah, absolutely, 100%. But back then my sister was struggling so much with so many different things. And I appeared to be thriving. So there was. It was never even mentioned to me that that's a possibility or could be a thing. And quite frankly, like, I used the ADHD to really get through a lot of stuff. You know, I went to law school at night. I worked full time during the day. I'm a solo mom, you know, raising my son. Like, it really helped me, probably hyper in ways that were helpful. But then it got to this point where I was really struggling, and I didn't know why.

A (9:10)

So for somebody who may relate to what you just said, your situation, which I think there's a lot of those folks out there, what do you think was your biggest challenge if you could pinpoint something, or was it just like, a collection of holy craps?

B (9:32)

Yeah. And so I. I think one of them was my own emotional regulation, Just, like, the intensity with which I was, like, feeling things, how personally I was taking my son's behavior. I was really struggling with that. And also, I. I want to say time management and, like, but not in the. The traditional way of thinking about things. Like, I was able to get things done, but I was having a really hard time organizing things, and everything felt like it had to be done right away. And then. So then nothing got done. And I'm really struggling with, like. I mean, it was, honestly, it's, like, so embarrassing, but being on time at work for things, like, I would be on my laptop, you know, on my computer at work, and I'd be very focused on something I was doing at work. And, yeah, the thing is pinging and going off that. There's a meeting starting, but I am, like, so I'm not even hearing you.

A (10:31)

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (10:32)

Ten minutes into it, someone's IMing me, like, are you joining this meeting? And I was just, like, so embarrassed of, like, oh, God, like, why does this keep. Like, why do I keep doing this? Like, what's wrong with me?

A (10:43)

Yeah, And I think that's another, like. And I've mentioned this several times here is My father was in the military. I never got that late gene. That many of those of us with ADHD talk about. Like. Like, you just said, if. If anything, I was early, and maybe. Maybe I was operating out of fear. I don't know, maybe a therapist could kind of dig in that piece of my head.

B (11:09)

You know, it was wired into you quick.

A (11:12)

Yeah, it was literally beaten and not beaten into me. Don't take that, though. You know, literally. You know, it was just like, we.

B (11:18)

Grew up in a different generation than maybe some of the listeners so, yeah, so.

A (11:23)

So when, when things really started to get complex for you, did you try to lean into your strengths that maybe you were aware of kind of how did what. Or was there a time where things really got kind of complicated for you?

B (11:40)

I mean, I think I did the sort of hyper focus things that so many people with ADHD do. You know, the new. I have a lot of day planners, a lot of planners, planners here, planners there, and, you know, trying to like, be. So I would go from super focused to like, it, like, kind of like falling apart, like very quickly and then just life being the. What it was when my son was in crisis, like the house on fire got all the attention and everything else got as much as it needed to get in order to not fall apart, essentially. So, you know, I would be. Tried to be super focused on certain things and I would. But then something else would happen and then I would shift. And so I was just having a lot of anxiety about my ability to hold all of it together without, you know, something happening that I wasn't able to fix or maintain.

A (12:37)

I think many of us don't quite fully understand our own capacity in those situations, right, where you're like, okay, stuff's going on at home, stuff's going on with my family, but I'm busy as hell over here. And yeah, I just, I can't squeeze it all in. Was there a. Was there a way you navigated through that? Did you just say this is what import. This is what's important and it is what it is? Or how did you kind of. How did you get through that? Because I know a lot of people, kind of what you just described there would, would cause somebody to be burnt out. And, and we talk about burnout in the context a lot of people in the general discussion of it is like, you know, I'm in a job and it's this and that, but they don't factor in the other things that I, I like to say that a lot of people burned out, bring like their work stress home. But a lot of us are bringing our home complexities into the workplace, right?

B (13:51)

Yeah, no, it was much more that way. And you know, with some things it's like, all right, well, maybe I just work longer hours. But there are other. But, but like, that doesn't always work when, you know, things are conflicting. Like, I can't move the 2 o' clock meeting for this deal that's happening where there's people, you know, all over the country involved, and I'm just one of those people. And I'm in the ER with my son. Right. And so it got to the point where I really had to be transparent with my colleagues and my employer. Like, here's what's happening right now and here's what I'll try to do and I will do my best with. But here's also what the limitations are at the moment. And that was a really scary place to be, especially like, you know, during the COVID pandemic and fear of your job being eliminated, quite frankly. Right. And so there was a lot of panic there, but at the same time, my son was in such a level of crisis where there really was not a choice.

A (14:54)

Yeah, no, I, I think that that makes a lot of sense. I think when it, when it comes right down to it, those are the choices.

B (15:00)

Yeah.

A (15:01)

That, that, that need to be made and a lot of us are just going to figure it out. Right. I hate to, I hate to create such a basic statement about that, but it is what it is. You got to, you got to get street smart about it at some point. Right.

B (15:17)

It's. And it's just like, it's such a, such a, like I have a client who's going through this, a similar. She's in crisis right now with her son. And there is part of it where it, it's like you're just day to day figuring things out and things are evolving. And so when I went through it the first time, it was hard, beyond hard. It was gut wrenching. But as I, as things, as I, you know, had more experiences of those things, I really started to learn how to, like, take some of that pressure off of myself, of the idea that I needed to know what to do and how to do it, that it was going. I was going to figure it out. And maybe it wouldn't always look the way I want it to, but, you know, it was a day to day thing just to take some of that pressure off because there's already so much anxiety and pressure in those situations.

A (16:10)

Right. Yeah. You, you had sent me some notes earlier on about some of the things that, that help you navigate life as it is right now, so to speak. Busy mom, busy professional adhd, caregiving responsibilities. And I think the first one was radical compassion. So can you kind of walk us through what that means? Because I do think many of us beat ourselves up in certain situations. I, I believe many times it's not warranted. I know when I work with people and we dig in to a certain situation, we realize it's maybe not all our fault and, and and that's very typical in the workplace. Like, well, my boss doesn't give me expectations, or my boss keeps changing things, or the people that are working for me don't know what they're doing. And you're blaming yourself. Right. So my point is, I think all of us need to practice what you say is that a little more compassion and grace, right?

B (17:19)

Yeah. I mean, you probably have heard the, the idea of, you know, if you're being hard on yourself and someone will say, like, well, how would you treat a friend? Or how would you treat your child? But I had that in reverse because I was living with a child who had all different kinds of struggles, and I really did have a lot of compassion for him. And so the idea that I was dealing with something similar, it was like, how could I take that same level of compassion and acceptance of his struggles and apply it to myself? And I'll tell you, that did not come naturally. It was pretty counterintuitive. But I see this a lot with my clients who they get diagnosed after their child gets diagnosed, or their spouse gets diagnosed after their child gets diagnosed. And so now you're seeing all of these behaviors that you thought were willful, purposeful, just being lazy or rude as under the same umbrella as how you've been thinking about your child's behaviors. And it really just, it's like, like, oh, now how can I bring that level of love and compassion understanding that I give to my child and I afford to them, to myself, to my spouse, to somebody else? And it's really counterintuitive. I mean, if this had gone in reverse, Right. If I had been diagnosed younger as a child, before I had a child, I think I would have really just turned it on myself. I think I would have just, you know, seen it as laziness or lack of effort, but happening later in life. And having, you know, these experiences with my son gave me a different lens.

A (19:00)

Yeah. I also think, and, and I've, well, well, two things is it's very common for somebody to maybe take their son or daughter to get a diagnosis. And then the doctor says, hey, you know what? Maybe you should, you know, you know, I, I, I think that's, that's one thing, but I also think not. I think I know is that somebody can be really kind of kicking ass as a busy person with adhd. But then life happens, right?

B (19:35)

Yeah.

A (19:36)

And, and that, and, and, and our ADHD comes, like, roaring back into our life. Right. So, and I think we need to, because I, I've, I know I'VE worked with people that, and, and children. Actually a perfect example where, oh, I was in my 20s and I killed it and I was making money and I was out there and you know, and then all of a sudden I, I had kids and I can't get up in the morning. Yeah. So, yeah, I think we need to think about all the things going on in our life. So.

B (20:06)

Yeah, no, that's a really good point. And I think that there are some things that we do that there's like a PA where we have expectations and ideas and, and structure that we can rely on. And then you have something like a child. Right. And like there's, there's not, there's not as much and you're figuring it out. And sometimes we really do struggle with that. Right. The executive functioning, organizing the planning.

A (20:30)

On the flip side, if we take a positive approach to it. I know for me, having a son that needed to get out the door on time so he wasn't late for school was, was a, was a positive aspect. It's just like, you know what, I gotta get up early, I gotta have my coffee, I gotta shower, I gotta get him up. So. And, and now that my son has graduated, you know, I, I still do that most mornings, but it was like, I have to get up, you know, I have to get up at 5:30. So.

B (21:04)

Yeah.

A (21:04)

So we kind of look at some of the positives of, of having maybe that little extra responsibility, I think. Yeah, yeah. Parenting through your wiring, you had mentioned in an email to me. So kind of explain because if I understand where you might be going, it's just a lot of us fight our adhd and sometimes it's a losing battle. So are you suggesting we work with our adhd? Work with that energy, work how our brain works or.

B (21:37)

I think what I meant about parenting through your own wiring is this sort of respect for how your wiring is playing into it when you have a child like, you know, you have a child that you're parenting who is, you know, so called fired differently. Right. And you are too, is how do you. How to, how to manage that? And for me, a lot of that just came down to the awareness of how my, you know, quote unquote, wiring was impacting how I was reacting, how I was feeling. So that, that aware, you know, just from having that awareness and that awareness of how that fed him, you know, just helping me to like, take a step back and to really just to be more, more mindful for like what was going on for me and then also to being Able to plan ahead for, like, what are the things that will make this easier, more, you know, for me, like, in the moment. And so, for example, when my son would maybe yell or scream, like, no, I immediately wanted to, like, run and, you know, jump in and fix it. And that ultimately really just made things escalate more because, you know, I was escalated. He's escalated. And so it's like. It's almost in some sense of, like, understanding, like, what you want to do, feeling that and like having that sort of pause. Right. The impulse control that is, you know, for those of us with adhd, to almost do the opposite of what you want to do or what you're sort of being, you know, propelled to do in that moment. And so that was really challenging for me. And the interesting thing is it was all the things that I was trying to teach him and so learning those things myself.

A (23:25)

No, that's a good point. I think we all probably heard the strange advice when we had babies is like, you know, when they're in the room and they're crying is to not just jump in there every two seconds. Right. It's very counterintuitive. Right. You want to go? Yeah.

B (23:41)

No, like, your nervous system is like, get in there. Make it better. Make it stop.

A (23:47)

Yeah. And. And it's like killing you not to go in there, you know, but eventually they fall asleep. Right. So at least most of them.

B (23:53)

Yeah, yeah. No, and some of that, it's so it's like being able to, like, create that own safety for you of, like, it's okay. Like, like really having to take that time to really self soothe yourself in some way. Right. And it was again, something. It's like, it just became. For me, it was like everything that I was trying to teach my child, I really needed to teach myself.

A (24:17)

Yeah, yeah. No, I think that that's. That's a great point. Talk about the catching dysregulation, like, in real time, how. How we. How we can learn to do that, how we can navigate it, how we can learn from it, so to speak.

B (24:37)

Sure. I mean, so our nervous systems are, you know, prime to, you know, sync to the. Sync to other people. So if your child or somebody else in your life, your boss, is dysregulated and they are, you know, yelling or they're just, you know, talking very quickly. Like, our nervous systems are going to react to that. Right. Emotions are contagious. And so being able to be aware of that in yourself and what's happening again so that you can be more intentional about what you do and what you don't do. And so, for instance, if, like, my son, I always like to think of, like, we always want to be, like, one notch below. Right? So if my son's, you know, tension is rising and he's at an 8, like, I don't want to meet him at the 8. And so just being able to, like, know that in order to stay grounded and in control of myself, I need to understand that my body wants to react in this way, and that's normal, and I am okay. I am safe. I can make a different choice.

A (25:42)

Yeah, well, I think many of us can relate to the. The eight in us. Responding with a 10, right?

B (25:52)

Oh, 100%. And, you know, there are so many times where I. I would say intentionally responded with the 10, because in my brain, or my idea was, if I overpower this, I can make it stop in some sort of way. Right. Like that. And honestly, it's kind of like that old school discipline, right? Like when someone, like, yells louder and you just sort of stop and you pause and all of a sudden you just. And that was not what was happening. You know, when my son was dysregulated, he was just like, don't threaten me with a good time. Right. Like, let's. Let's do this.

A (26:26)

Right. No, I know. If you've ever read the book the Courage to Be Disliked, there's a who a discussion in there about meeting. Meeting something you find, you know, irritating with anger. And, and Adler's whole philosophy is the only reason we do that is to, you know, assert control. Right. Yeah. So. And I think we got to remind ourselves of that when we're in these situations. Is that. Because, I mean, that's a huge common thread in the ADHD world, whether it's kids or adults. Is. Is, you know, a burst of anger. It could be in school, it could be at home, it could be in the workplace. And for some people, it's not that easy to. To regulate. It just comes out, you know?

B (27:16)

Yeah, I know. And I, I was definitely feeling that. And, you know, I was just feeling like I was like this terrible parent. And so I'd have one of those outbursts and I'd spend, you know, hours or days, like, you know, feeling guilty and beating myself up. And it didn't make it easier the next time, that's for sure.

A (27:33)

Right. Yeah. So as we wrap up, given your experiences to date, living a life of a busy professional, a caregiver with maybe some added responsibilities, etc. What have you learned and what do you want people to kind of take away from your experiences that maybe can help them in a similar situation?

B (28:02)

I think it's really important to find people who understand whether that is your coach, whether it's a therapist, and will really listen to you and work with you. Because one of the things that I found was that when I started to say, hey, I have adhd, the people in my life were like, no, you don't. How that can't be true. Right? Because they knew me operating at a certain level and they didn't see it. And what they didn't understand is, like, the internal, like, what was really happening for me. And so for me, having other people that understood and can talk to me about, like, what was happening and give me, you know, strategies and support was the most helpful thing, because there's other. There's so much proof in our lives. If you're, you know, working hard, you're high achieving, you have a job, you have many responsibilities, and everything seems to be going well for you to be like, is this really adhd or am I just making excuses? Am I being lazy? You know, just really to, like, again, to like, beat yourself up? And so for me, it was really important having the people in my life that were like, no, like, this is what is happening and this is how it's impacting you. And it really just again, helped me to stop spending all the time just like, the idea of, like, if you beat yourself up enough, you'll just. Just do better.

A (29:20)

Yeah. No. And we all know that that doesn't work. No. So cool. All right. How can people find you? Sure.

B (29:28)

My. I am on Instagram and Facebook as the Autism Mom Coach. And my website is the Autism Mom Coach dot com.

A (29:36)

Cool.

B (29:36)

And my podcast is the Autism Mom Coach.

A (29:39)

All right, so as. As us podcasters say, we'll. We'll link to that stuff in the show notes. That's what we say here. So cool. Hey, thanks for connecting. Thank you for sharing your story. I. People just listen to this and can relate a lot about. About what you've gone through and what you've kind of built to navigate forward. So thank you.

B (30:05)

All right, well, thank you so much. It was great to meet you.