Ep 709 - The Complete Peanuts, by Charles Schulz

Summary

Podcast Summary: Overdue Episode 709 - The Complete Peanuts by Charles Schulz

Podcast Information:

• Title: Overdue
• Host/Author: Headgum
• Episode: Ep 709 - The Complete Peanuts by Charles Schulz
• Release Date: June 30, 2025
• Description: Overdue is a podcast about the books you've been meaning to read. Join Andrew and Craig each week as they tackle a new title from their backlog. Classic literature, obscure plays, goofy children’s books: they'll read it all, one overdue book at a time.

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Introduction

In Episode 709 of Overdue, hosts Andrew and Craig delve into The Complete Peanuts anthology by Charles Schulz. Spanning two significant volumes—Volume 1 (1950-1952) and Volume 10 (1969-1970)—they explore the evolution of one of the most beloved and enduring comic strips in history. The episode combines nostalgic reflections with analytical discussions, offering both longtime fans and newcomers a comprehensive look at Schulz’s masterpiece.

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Overview of The Complete Peanuts Volumes

Volume 1: 1950-1952 The hosts begin by discussing Volume 1, which encompasses the early years of Peanuts, capturing the strip’s inception and initial character developments. They highlight how Schulz introduced foundational characters like Charlie Brown, Lucy, Snoopy, Shermy, and Patty, setting the stage for future narratives.

Volume 10: 1969-1970 Transitioning to Volume 10, Andrew and Craig examine the matured themes and refined character dynamics that define the late 1960s period of Peanuts. This volume showcases the strip’s transition into more sophisticated storytelling, reflecting societal changes and Schulz’s personal growth.

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Evolution of Peanuts Characters

Early Depictions: In the early strips ([04:07] Craig), characters are still being solidified. Shermy, one of the original characters, is discussed as the first to disappear without explanation, a reflection of Schulz’s evolving vision for the strip. Andrew notes, “Everybody hates Charlie Brown” ([05:49]), indicating the early portrayal of Charlie Brown as the perennial underdog.

Character Developments: By Volume 10, characters like Linus and Schroeder have developed distinct personalities. Snoopy begins to exhibit more autonomy and whimsical traits, reflecting his iconic status. The hosts comment on Snoopy’s versatility, saying, “Snoopy is the only character who gets to have, like, fantasy and whimsy in his life” ([56:27]).

Introduction of New Characters: New characters such as Woodstock and Rerun add depth to the strip. Woodstock’s silent yet expressive nature is contrasted with Snoopy’s more dynamic behaviors, creating a rich tapestry of interactions ([56:13] Andrew).

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Charles Schulz's Life and Influence

Early Life and Career: Craig provides an insightful biography of Charles "Sparky" Schulz ([14:10] Andrew), detailing his upbringing in Minneapolis, his aspirations to be a cartoonist, and his service in World War II. Schulz’s experiences, including his mother’s passing, profoundly influenced his work, infusing Peanuts with underlying themes of melancholy and resilience.

Artistic Philosophy: Schulz’s commitment to simplicity and expressiveness in his drawings is a focal point. Andrew reflects, “He developed a brilliant graphic shorthand and stylistic economy” ([21:14]), emphasizing how Schulz mastered the art of conveying complex emotions with minimalistic artwork.

Retirement and Legacy: In December 1999 ([76:23] Craig), Schulz announced his retirement due to colon cancer, passing away shortly after. This bittersweet conclusion to his life was poignantly tied to his art: “As soon as he ceased to be a cartoonist, he ceased to be” ([77:36] Craig), highlighting how intrinsically Peanuts was linked to his identity.

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Comparisons with Other Comics

Calvin and Hobbes: The hosts draw parallels between Peanuts and Calvin and Hobbes, noting Bill Watterson’s admiration for Schulz. They discuss the differences in artistic freedom and merchandising, with Craig stating, “Bill Watterson and Jim Davis are like the two halves of which way it could have gone” ([35:38]).

Garfield: A humorous anecdote reveals how Charles Schulz influenced Jim Davis’s creation of Garfield. Andrew shares a story where Schulz helped Davis design Garfield to stand on two legs, enabling the character’s iconic posture ([39:13] Andrew).

Other Strips: Family Circus and Hagar the Horrible are briefly mentioned, with the hosts expressing mixed feelings about their artistic styles and narrative approaches compared to Peanuts.

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Analysis of Early Peanuts Strips and Themes

Story Arcs and Continuity: Andrew and Craig discuss the fragmented storytelling in early Peanuts strips, where daily strips sometimes abruptly intersect with the more elaborate Sunday panels. Craig notes, “You just have to accept that the Sunday strips exist in their own separate continuity” ([46:40]).

Themes of Loneliness and Friendship: The persistent loneliness of Charlie Brown and the intricate friendships among the characters are explored. Andrew remarks, “He was often allowed to get the punchline instead of being the punchline” ([48:09]).

Humor and Wordplay: The hosts appreciate Schulz’s use of sophisticated language and subtle humor, such as Shermy’s sarcastic remarks and Violet’s exaggerated expressions ([54:15]).

Snoopy’s Fantasies: Snoopy’s various alter egos, including the World War I Flying Ace, are highlighted as early examples of character depth and creativity ([56:13] Craig).

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Schulz's Retirement and Legacy

Final Strips: The hosts reflect on the final strips before Schulz’s passing, noting the emotional weight and legacy he left behind. Craig poignantly shares, “Charles Schultz dies, his life entwined to the very end with his art” ([78:44] Andrew).

Posthumous Publications: Post-retirement, Peanuts was repackaged for new generations, with adaptations like colorized versions introduced in 2015. Andrew suggests readers “pick a year that means something to you” to explore Peanuts’ rich history ([80:40]).

Cultural Impact: Peanuts’ influence on popular culture, including phrases like “security blanket” and its pervasive presence in media, is acknowledged. The hosts agree that Schulz’s work remains universally relatable and continues to resonate with audiences worldwide.

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Memorable Moments and Gags

Early Gags: Andrew shares a favorite early gag where Shermy insults Charlie Brown, encapsulating the strip’s blend of humor and pathos ([54:28]).

Snoopy’s Antics: Snoopy’s playful and unpredictable behavior, such as attacking Charlie Brown’s food or dancing in whimsical strips, adds a layer of lightheartedness to the otherwise melancholic tone of the strip ([56:27]).

Character Interactions: The dynamic between Lucy and Linus, characterized by constant bickering and Linus’s protective nature, is highlighted as a key element of the strip’s enduring appeal ([70:15]).

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Conclusions

Andrew and Craig conclude that The Complete Peanuts offers a timeless exploration of human emotions, friendships, and the simple yet profound joys of everyday life. They commend Schulz’s ability to create relatable characters and meaningful narratives within the constrained format of newspaper comics. The enduring legacy of Peanuts lies in its universal themes and the heartfelt simplicity of its storytelling, making it a must-read for anyone interested in the art of comics and the human condition.

Notable Quotes:

• Andrew: "Everyone hates Charlie Brown and everybody failure." [05:49]
• Craig: "Snoopy is the only character who gets to have, like, fantasy and whimsy in his life." [56:27]
• Andrew: "He developed a brilliant graphic shorthand and stylistic economy." [21:14]
• Craig: "As soon as he ceased to be a cartoonist, he ceased to be." [77:36]
• Andrew: "You have to reason. I'm prejudiced." [57:45]

Timestamp Highlights:

• [04:07] Introduction to Volume 1 (1950-1952)
• [14:10] Charles Schulz's Biography
• [21:14] Schulz’s Artistic Philosophy
• [35:38] Comparison with Other Comics
• [54:15] Early Humor and Wordplay
• [56:27] Snoopy’s Fantasies
• [77:36] Schulz’s Retirement and Legacy
• [80:40] Recommendations for Reading Peanuts

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Overdue Episode 709 offers a heartfelt and detailed exploration of The Complete Peanuts, celebrating Charles Schulz’s genius while providing insightful commentary on the strip’s evolution and its place in comic history. Whether you're revisiting Peanuts or discovering it for the first time, this episode serves as a comprehensive guide to understanding the magic behind the beloved characters and their timeless stories.

Transcript

[Craig]

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[Andrew]

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[Craig]

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[Craig]

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[Andrew]

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[Craig]

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[Andrew]

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[Craig]

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[Andrew]

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[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

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[Craig]

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[Andrew]

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[Craig]

My name is Andrew, and I can't stand it.

[Andrew]

I'm just here.

[Craig]

The world famous podcasters walk up to the mic and don their IPAs and their headphones.

[Andrew]

I'm just holding my security pop filter at the moment.

[Craig]

It was a dark and stormy night. I'm Sarah Koenig. These are all funny jokes.

[Andrew]

The podcaster is in strips.

[Craig]

Yes. Real in.

[Andrew]

Real in. Welcome to our book podcast, where each week one of us reads a book and tells the other person about it. This week we didn't do that. We both read two books and we're going to talk to each other about it, about them. Andrew, what books did we read for this week's show?

[Craig]

We read two volumes of the Complete Peanuts, which are by Charles Schultz, by Charles Schulz. The big anthology series for the whole comic strip, Peanuts, which ran from 1950 to the year 2000. The future.

[Andrew]

That's absurd.

[Craig]

We read volume one, which covers all the strips published in 1950 and 51. 52, 51 and 52.

[Andrew]

From 50 to 52. All three.

[Craig]

50 to 52. All three. Okay. And then volume 10.

[Andrew]

Volume 10.

[Craig]

Volume 10, which is 1969 and 1970.

[Andrew]

And they're not. If, like, if you Google them, you might see volume numbers. I don't know that they're actually like, that's not in their official title on the, on the edition. It's just.

[Craig]

Yeah, they're. They're counted by years. If you. I mean, when you look them up on retail sites, you'll see volume. Yeah, the volumes are listed. But yeah, if you look in, like, the. Yeah, the dust jacket. Other books in this series. This is the complete peanuts, 1953 to 1954. 1955 to 1956. Yeah, it's just years.

[Andrew]

So. Yeah, so we're. We're going to talk about some of the strips in these books and how, you know, it's fun to read them sequentially. One of the reasons I think you can get three years in that first book is that the Sunday strips take a while to start, which take up a full page every time they crop up. And then we're just gonna. We're gonna wrap Peanuts a little bit. We're both. We both love Peanuts.

[Craig]

Peanuts. Yeah. Peanuts are fine. Peanuts are good.

[Andrew]

Have we. We've talked about our Charlie Brown Christmas practice in college. Yes, probably.

[Craig]

But why don't you refresh everybody? Like, this is our shared context for Peanuts. And then we can talk about, like, what we. The only. The Peanuts I remember specifically. And I remember this about the Calvin and Hob. I do remember reading the last one, the one with the letter in it when it went up.

[Andrew]

I remember.

[Craig]

I remember it partly because all the other strips were about Peanuts.

[Andrew]

Well, yes, I have a note about that. Yes, I have a note about that. I remember being in middle school. It was probably eighth grade. Seventh or eighth grade, because eighth grade is when the millennium happened and we changed over and he died in 2000. So that's when that happened.

[Craig]

Yeah. Didn't live to see the Willennium.

[Andrew]

Well, he did. Not the rest of it. Well, I guess the Willlenium started.

[Craig]

Is there a year zero in the millennium?

[Andrew]

I can picture the parking lot of my middle school, which I think is where somebody was talking about it and I heard the news. But no, in college, Andrew and I were roommates and I think our sophomore year we had a TV in our room.

[Craig]

Fancy TV built in.

[Andrew]

DVD built in. DVD player that I know for a fact. Burned out like we killed the laser on that thing. I'm not.

[Craig]

Are you sure we did it? I don't know. It feels like we were just using it as. As anybody would if this was a. If this was a floor model in a store.

[Andrew]

Okay, fair enough.

[Craig]

This is within the realm of what.

[Andrew]

It would have been, I suppose. But it did get 24 hour use in the month of December, airing Charlie Brown Christmas on loop. Yes. 30 minute program.

[Craig]

I don't even know if it's 30 minutes. It's not long.

[Andrew]

A graphic blandishment of 22ish minutes that we just left running all the time. Sometimes with the sound on, often with the sound off. We could go to sleep and we didn't.

[Craig]

We didn't formally say, okay, we have to watch it. We like properly watch it once a day. It was just like sometimes we're in the room, like, let's turn the volume up and watch it.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah. You find. You find your favorite sounds, your favorite lines.

[Craig]

There are multiple. There's so many lines of that that both of us just have lodged in our heads forever.

[Andrew]

Those are the way that Linus says those are good reasons. But it sounds like he's saying raisins.

[Craig]

I always think about script girl. Continue with the scripts.

[Andrew]

I think I didn't even think I was. I looked that good.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Huh. I know when I've been insulted, there's a lot.

[Craig]

It's a very Good tens and 20. Yeah, it's. Yes, there's a lot of stuff.

[Andrew]

It's very good. But I don't recall reading a Lot of Peanuts as a kid.

[Craig]

Yeah. I would have read it because I just read the comics in the newspaper.

[Andrew]

Yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Craig]

Sure is my path. But I read. I was in there for the Garfield. I was. Sometimes I was in there for Foxtrot when the little. When the kid, like, got an imac or something. I was like, look at. Look at this computer in Foxtrot.

[Andrew]

I think I was a. I think I was like, jump into the Family Circus like a doofus.

[Craig]

Ew. Really?

[Andrew]

I was. I was a little, single, single little.

[Craig]

Panel Charlotte over in his grave.

[Andrew]

But reading, like, Calvin and Hobbes collections. I don't remember reading any Peanuts collections. I do remember watching a bunch of the animated films or specials. The Great Pumpkin, obviously. Charlie Brown Christmas.

[Craig]

The one where they go like a animated series at some point, like a regular.

[Andrew]

It was.

[Craig]

Yeah, because I watched a lot of that stuff, too.

[Andrew]

I have, like, very strong memories of when Snoopy, like, runs away.

[Craig]

Is that the one where he runs into the thing that says no dogs allowed, and there's a voice that says, no dogs allowed?

[Andrew]

Yeah, I remember that Charlie Brown doing the spelling bee. The one where they go, like, where they're whitewater rafting for some reason.

[Craig]

I do not.

[Andrew]

I don't remember why that one's happened. You know, a lot of. Lot of fun. The one where Peppermint Patty and Snoopy go ice skating. They're an ice skating competition which is reference referenced in this collection. Or at least, you know, that is seeded in this collection. But yeah, it's. I don't know. People know what Snoopy is.

[Craig]

People do know what Snoopy is. And good old Charlie Brown.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And many of the other characters, many of.

[Andrew]

Some of whom are. Get longer play in the 50 to 52 collection than you may remember them.

[Craig]

Yeah. I mean, well, yeah, we can talk about the genesis. I mean, part of why we wanted to. For the same reason that we wanted to do early Garfield is there's just to do early Peanuts is to see such a weirdly different version of the comic.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

Become. Including, like, what. What the two have in common is that they prominently feature an animal that starts out walking on all fours and then slowly, over the course of a decade or so, becomes a small man.

[Andrew]

I have information on that for you as well.

[Craig]

Yeah, I have a lot. I have all the dates for that, too. Snoopy appeared on October 4, 1950, two days after the first Peanuts trip. One of the four original characters, along with Charlie Brown, Petty and Shermy, named Snoopy for the first time in the November 10th strip in. On March 16, 1952, his thoughts were first shown in a thought balloon.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

Snoopy, much like Garfield, has thoughts that appear in a thought balloon. And it's a little. It's a little. It's a little wobbly, like, whether people are directly understanding him or not. He can, like, read and write English and communicate with his human, especially in volume 10.

[Andrew]

Charlie Brown knows what he's saying all the time. Yeah.

[Craig]

Snoopy first appeared upright on his hind legs on January 9, 1956.

[Andrew]

Never forget when he was walking. When he was walking on hind legs. Because he's dancing on hind legs in an earlier comic, but it doesn't really count.

[Craig]

For. Shown sleeping on top of his doghouse rather than inside it. On December 12, 1958.

[Andrew]

Yep.

[Craig]

And first adopts his World War I flying ace Persona on October 10, 1965.

[Andrew]

Okay, sure. And like Woodstock gets named in this collect. The second collection.

[Craig]

Shermy disappears in this collection, never to be seen again.

[Andrew]

Never to be seen again.

[Craig]

He's the only one of the original characters who doesn't at least make it into the 90s strips.

[Andrew]

Okay, okay. Yeah, that.

[Craig]

Sure. Poor Shermy. I mean, every Christmas, it's a poor one out. I always end up playing shepherd. Yeah. And then in this one, he approaches the mound at a baseball game and talks to Charlie Brown and no one ever hears from him again.

[Andrew]

He got sent to the comics miners.

[Craig]

You.

[Andrew]

You picked the. The volume 10. It was your idea. I want to give you credit for it because it does. Not only is 10 just an easy round number, why not do it that way? It does fall, like, right after a whole bunch or right as a whole bunch of, like, big peanut stuff is happening.

[Craig]

Yeah, it's kind of happening at the. At a peak of the. I mean, the. The comic was influential for its entire run.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

It was talking about when, like, NASA is naming stuff after, like, Charlie Brown and Snoopy, you're talking about, like, the. The late 60s into the 70s. This is when it is kind of omnipresent. And the. There's a lot of fun stuff before and after the. The strips in this first volume. And the. The, like the rear matter. What's. How do we want to refer to the stuff in the back of the first book?

[Andrew]

The rear matter?

[Craig]

Yeah, you know, like, you have front matter, and then you have some rear matter.

[Andrew]

It's not errata. It's the ancillary content, the auxiliary. The appendices.

[Craig]

The appendices at the end, like the long interview with Charles Schulz.

[Andrew]

Yes. Yes.

[Craig]

And then the other thing. But it's making a case that in the. In the tumultuous late 1960s into the 70s, like Peanuts, is the way that. The one way that generations are still, like, sharing the world in common is that everybody likes Peanuts.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

Like, whether you're some hippie stoner, rocker guy out in California or you are working in the government sending rockets to the moon, you are a fan of Snoop. You know who Charlie Brown is? Yeah.

[Andrew]

Let's talk about Charles Schulz, and then we'll talk about Snoopy and his pals.

[Craig]

You mean Sparky?

[Andrew]

Sparky. Charles Sparky Schultz, born 1922, passed away in the year 2000. His. The last daily strip ran January 3rd. The last Sunday strip ran the day after his death. He was born in Minneapolis, grew up in the St Paul area as well. He's nicknamed Sparky after the horse Spark Plug from the comic strip Barney Google. That's a sentence that all makes sense to me. He says he always wanted to be a cartoonist. He practiced with Popeye a lot. He says he was not a good student at Central high school in St. Paul, but he did get a drawing accepted at age 15 by Ripley's Believe It Or Not. It was a drawing of his family dog, Spike, with the description a hunting dog that eats pins, tacks, and razor blades. Is owned by C.F. schultz, St. Paul, Minnesota.

[Craig]

Mm.

[Andrew]

He was taking an art correspondence course, but then got drafted into the army right before he left for service. This was World War II. His mother passed away. She said, good. She basically said, I guess this is the last time we're seeing each other. And then he went off to Europe.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Very sad. And he is in that interview in the back of the book, which I think is in the 80s, right?

[Craig]

Yeah, I think, like, right at the.

[Andrew]

Beginning of the 80s and throughout his career, he says that. That, you know, his mother passing away changed his life forever. The kind of deep sadness that underpinned him as a person, he traces back to that. And then when he comes back from the army, he also talks a lot about needing to. He found he, like, fell in with churches after that for a period of time. He does talk about that being a thing he needed because he didn't know what to do when he comes back from, like, being in the battle of the sum or whatever.

[Craig]

The interview in the. In the back of the book catches him in an interesting moment because he's still kind of, you know, there is more of Peanuts behind him than there is in front of him at this point, but he's still, like, very much kind of in the right. In the middle of. Of doing the strip, whether he knew it at the. At the time or not. And it's like, there is a lot of, I think, older, 20th century. Like, we don't. We don't talk about, like, religion and politics. Like, it's just not polite to do that.

[Andrew]

Yep.

[Craig]

And so that was. That was an attitude he brought to the comics a lot. He has a lot of opinions, and some of it feels like old man yells at Cloud, and some of it feels like a little incongruous, but he really just believes in, like, showing up and doing your work and honoring your commitments and then, like, going home at the end of the day. Seems to be what Sparky Schultz wanted to do with his. With his life. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Reference. Because we're probably going to talk about it continuously. This is an interview with Rick Marshall, who's a newspaper strip historian, and Gary Groth, who edited the Comics journal starting in 1976. So those are the two interviewers that Schultz sat down with. He had a Peanuts precursor. He came back from the war. He was working as an art instructor and selling cartoons. He had something called Little Folks.

[Craig]

Lil Folks. You're pronouncing it wrong.

[Andrew]

Excuse me. Lil Folks.

[Craig]

One reason why, when the Features Syndicate. One reason why the United Features Syndicate did not want to pick it up as Lil Folks is because there was another separate comic that was already called Little Folks. So, like, don't mix them up, please.

[Andrew]

And it does. You can. If you ever look up Little Folks, you can see the direction, art, you know, heritage or lineage to Peanuts, I think even.

[Craig]

Even more so than the comic strip John and the.

[Andrew]

And Garfield. John Garfield.

[Craig]

You can. You can view Little Folks as basically Peanuts, though, even, like, further away from, like, recognizable, modern Peanuts than this first, like, collection of strips.

[Andrew]

It's close. Yes, it's very close to the first collection of strips that we read. But both of them are pretty far from the Peanuts everybody would think of today.

[Craig]

Right? Yeah. Like. Like, these are the early peanut strips. At least hat. Like, here it's. It's Charlie Brown. It has. Eventually it names Snoopy. It has Shermy. It has Patty. Not to be confused.

[Andrew]

And then Violet.

[Craig]

We'll talk about that. And then, you know, characters you recognize start showing up pretty quickly. But Little Folks mostly did not have characters who recurred. Like, there are three or four separate children named Charlie Brown.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

A dog that looks like Snoopy but is not named Snoopy, but, like, Fulfills a Snoopy esque purpose.

[Andrew]

We have to start making Snoopy esque. A thing like Kafka s. It's very, very Snoopy esque.

[Craig]

Snoopy esque.

[Andrew]

It ran in the same mean a.

[Craig]

Lot of things because Snoopy is such a wild card.

[Andrew]

It's true. Such a versatile character, always tilting at something. It ran from 1947 to 1950 in the St. Paul Pioneer Press. It was a one panel comic. He was also. While he was teaching, he did meet a woman named Donna Johnson. He proposed to her and was rejected. She would become the, you know, inspiration for Charlie Brown's Little Red Haired Girl. Little folks. Excuse me, lil folks. They were just panels and he was trying to get them turned into strips. And St. Paul Pioneer Press didn't want it. He took it to the United Features Syndicate, who liked it. But a guy just kind of thought it should be called Peanuts. You didn't really. There was not a good story there.

[Craig]

The closest there is to a story is like every Howdy Doody was burning up the airwaves at the time.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

And the little gallery collection of kids who sits and watches Howdy Doody on the show is called the Peanut Gallery.

[Andrew]

Charles Schulz hated this name forever.

[Craig]

Charles went to his grave hating the name Peanuts. It was never a thing that he made peace with. And that's the interesting dichotomy. Like one. One of the interesting dichotomies of that interview is like, at. On the one hand, he's like, I will. I will. I will literally die mad about. About the name Peanuts. I hate the name peanuts. It's been 30 years and I still hate it. But at the same time, he gripes about some contemporary artists at the time. He names the guy behind Gary who. Who did Dunes Berry. Like people who are like pushing and using their leverage to try and get like more space to do their comics or whatever. And Char Charles Schultz is like, I didn't. I didn't want to do this little space savered four panel gag strip, but it's what I sold. And then I made it work. And I just, I. I think people complaining about all this stuff and making a big stink about it are unprofessional. Basically.

[Andrew]

Yeah. It, like, I hadn't really thought about the way the four. The four equal panels of his weekly. His daily strip worked and the way that he talked. He's like, it could be syndicated any way that they wanted it to. You could do it vertically, you can do it horizontally. You can do it as like a. As a square 1, 2, 3, 4 is pretty interesting. I just had never really thought about comics layout and the way that different newspapers would print it differently. And it was to your advantage as a cartoonist if you could make something that was legible and interesting in all of those formats.

[Craig]

Yeah. Apparently kind of originated in. In manga.

[Andrew]

Sure. Okay.

[Craig]

Yonkoma is the name of the form.

[Andrew]

Interesting.

[Craig]

It's the same thing, basically. Deal. You make four panels. They're all small, they're all the same size. So you can arrange them in whatever style you want, whether that's like up and down, side to side, or even in a. In a two by two square, just based on what the publisher needed. And it's. So when Schultz announces his retirement in late 1999, just like a few weeks before he dies, Bill Watterson writes of Calvin and Hobbs. Same writes a. An obituary. Not an obituary. It's a. It's like a.

[Andrew]

A memoriam.

[Craig]

Just like here, here's what, here's. Here's what it means to me that Charles Schultz is retiring. And this is like four years after the end of Calvin and Hobbes. So any, any newspaper who is approached by Bill Watterson being like, hey, I want to put some thoughts in. Yeah, like they're gonna just give him space. But he says, back when the comics were printed large enough that they could accommodate detailed, elaborate drawings, Peanuts was launched with an insultingly tiny format designed so the panels could be stacked vertically if an editor wanted to run it in a single column. Schultz somehow turned this of space restriction to his advantage and developed a brilliant graphic shorthand and stylistic economy. Innovations unrecognizable now that all comics are tiny. And Schultz's solutions have been universally imitated. Graphically, the strip is static and spare. Schulz gave up virtually all the cinematic devices that create visual drama. There are no fancy perspectives, no interesting croppings, no shadows and lighting effects, no three dimensional modeling. @ few props and few settings, Schultz distilled each subject to its basest essence and drew it straight on or inside view in simple outlines. But while the simplicity of Schulz's drawings made the strip stand out from the rest, it was the expressiveness within the simplicity that made Schulz's artwork so forceful. Lucy yelling with her head tilted back so her mouth fills her entire face. Linus horrified with his hair standing on end. Charlie Brown radiating utter misery with a wiggly, downturned mouth. Snoopy's elastic face pulled up to show large gritted teeth as he fights the red bear. And these were not just economical drawings. They are funny drawings.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

So it's. I read that just because it can be hard to appreciate how. How much Peanuts does with so little. Because all comics, like, even by the time we were kids, like, all comics just look like Peanuts did pretty much well.

[Andrew]

But. Yeah, what's the. Not Hagar the Horrible. There was another. There was another comic that would be running, and it wasn't like, Prince Valiant or something. It was just another, like, weird medieval comic that I would see on the pages. And it was, like, very, like, talking about B.C. but you're right. No, like, everything is Peanuts. Like, I'm just looking at the. I have a few of the. Like, was it May 2000? The strips that all commemorated not only his death, but his lifetime achievement award that was given to him. And it's like, oh, here's Kathy, like, you know, wishing that a man had all the qualities of all the different Peanuts characters, and then just reading Peanuts instead. But, like, it's. There's nothing in the frame except Kathy. There's a Marmaduke. Oh, my goodness. With Marmaduke doing a Snoopy, do we need to do Marmaduke? No, put that on Patreon. There's a Garfield where he sits on the. On the thing. There's a Family Circus, which has a little bit more going on. But as I said, I regret all my Family Circus time. He.

[Craig]

The thing that you're me reading, Family Circus is like a little dotted line that shows me getting up from the couch and walking over to the trash can. That's how I feel about Family Circus.

[Andrew]

Your. Some of that quote from Waterson made me think of. There's a bit in the interview from the first volume we read where he. They ask him, like, where the Peanuts kids live, and he's like, I don't know.

[Craig]

I don't know.

[Andrew]

Like, kind of the suburbs, but not like the sprawling suburbs. Not the, like, inner city, but sort of city. He says he refers to it as a veterans development, which is like a, you know, a very mid 20th century. Like, well, where are we gonna put all these people?

[Craig]

Right. Yeah, they all came back, and now they want to live somewhere.

[Andrew]

And he goes at length to just say, like, I really don't draw anything around them on purpose. I don't know where they live. I don't really care. There are people who are better at it than I am. And to Watterson's point, some of that is very just economical of the form. And it was making me think a bit more about Calvin. And I just have a stronger sense of, like, the rooms that Calvin inhabited and the places that he went. And that's just not quite what's happening in Peanuts at all.

[Craig]

Yeah, and we talked about, like, Watterson is one of the people is. Who is pushing for more space, more color, especially when it comes to, like, the Sunday strips. A lot of the weekly Calvin and Hobbes is the same kind of very.

[Andrew]

Like, they fill up the yelling.

[Craig]

Yeah, yeah, like, yelling head thing that. That Peanuts kind of defaults to so often.

[Andrew]

But he was really going at it with the Sunday strips.

[Craig]

I'm trying to think of. There was another big comic that Watterson cites as, like, one of the influences for Calvin and Hobbs. Like, he. He cites Peanuts, obviously, but it was like Little Nemo or whatever.

[Andrew]

Yep. Huh? Yep.

[Craig]

We talked about it in the episode, but it was, like, big, weird, surreal.

[Andrew]

Yes, I remember that. I remember.

[Craig]

And the writing was, like, really stupid and bad, but, like, the art was really cool.

[Andrew]

Can I get back to Schultz?

[Craig]

Yes, get back to. Get back to Schultz.

[Andrew]

No, this is good. This is kind of what the episode is going to be. I think there's just, like.

[Craig]

There's just, like, a lot to say about him because he's kind of a neat guy.

[Andrew]

He, you know, he sells the strip. He moves to California with his first wife, Joyce Halverson. They have, like, five kids. They built and own an ice rink for a period of time. They did divorce, and he remarried a year later with Jeannie Schultz. Someone once. I. Someone once tried to kidnap his daughter, like, got into his house. It was just really wacky. Just weird stuff. I don't know why I have that in my notes here. I don't remember what part. Which biography I read that.

[Craig]

I did not. I did not run into that. Fun, weird.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Other works that he. That he made include It's Only a Game, a sports series from 57 to 59, young pillars from 56 to 65, which was a Church of God publication. Talk about that a little bit. And he did two volumes of illustrations for Kids say the Darndest Things. But, you know, by. By the 60s, he's peanuts all the time.

[Craig]

Penis is kind of best thought of as a very like, yeah, existential, depressed version of Kids say the Darndest Things.

[Andrew]

Religion. I. I bring up.

[Craig]

This is like, the exact opposite of the. The. Could a depressed person make this meme? Like, only a depressed person.

[Andrew]

Only a dep.

[Craig]

This.

[Andrew]

He was raised nominally Lutheran. After the war, becomes active in the Church of God, which is a kind of evangelist, like, Protestant denomination that is Congregationalist in nature. It's very decentralized. And he started going, as I said, after his mother had died. He come back from the army, he needed something, and then he winds up teaching with a Methodist church in California. There's notes in that interview we've been citing where his. His daughter joined the Mormon Church, I think, after getting married.

[Craig]

Yeah. By the time he's giving this interview in the 80s, he's making it sound like, you know, this was just like. It was. It was a good group of people. He had intellectually stimulating conversations with them. And even though he did at some point stand on a street corner and yell at people about something that we don't talk about.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

He doesn't. He doesn't seem like he is deeply. He's not deeply attached to it, or he's just not deeply interested in talking to this interviewer.

[Andrew]

Well, yeah, he. He. They ask him about secular humanism, and he's like, yeah, I mean, sure. I don't.

[Craig]

I talked to a friend and they said, this is what I was.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah. And just kind of like, what if people were good to each other and we were all kind of could. Could live in a little bit of harmony is kind of where he has found himself. I think there's like another quote where he's like, yeah, I mean, I taught Sunday school, but I. I never, like, told the kids what was going on inside me necessarily. If I had doubts or questions or whatever. That was not the point. Bring that up. Because, of course, like, you know, it's a big part of the legacy of the Charlie Brown Christmas thing is like, kind of the intersection of whatever the worldview of Peanuts is with, you know, what Christmas is, which is a secular humanism. In. In addition to being a religious holiday. Right. There's a secular version of Christmas that is very, very popular. And it also has to, you know, exist, coexist with the religious version of Christmas. What is he. This. He would draw with an Esterbrook radial pen. I share that. For anyone at home who knows what that is. I don't know what it is. It's a pen on a yellow legal pad. He said he would draw until something funny happened, and then that. That would be the strip. And he was generally several months ahead of publication and never took off more than 10 days, which even continued after his quadruple bypass in 1981.

[Craig]

Yeah, dude took like, one sabbatical and it was for. They reran strips for, like, four days. Yes, it was nothing.

[Andrew]

And he took off. The United Features Syndicate, like, Ordered him to take five weeks off when he turned 75. You have to stop. The strip debuts in 1950, October 2nd. It's in seven newspapers in the first year, and it's a hit by 1953. He wins cartoonist of the year in 55, a Yale humor award in 56. Though, as Andrew said, we're not getting into, like, the era of Snoopy walking around and thinking still for another, like, eight years or so.

[Craig]

It's like, by that. By the time you get to the 69 and 70.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Collection, like, everything. Everything that you recognize as Peanuts is here. And even. There are even some things in the 50 to 52 collection. Like, I think you get, like, the first Lucy holding the football. You get, like, you.

[Andrew]

Excuse me. You get Violet holding the football. I don't know if you got Lucy holding the football. Violet is holding the football.

[Craig]

Violet and Lucy are drawn.

[Andrew]

So Violet has a lot of early.

[Craig]

Lucy happening, and there's so many Lucy characteristics that are kind of, like, brought over from Violet.

[Andrew]

Yep. It's very weird.

[Craig]

Anyway, Charlie Brown tries and fails to kick a football for the first time.

[Andrew]

Yes. I like that strip. I do want to talk about it.

[Craig]

But, like. But, you know, by the time you get to 69. 70. Yeah. Like, all the. Pretty much all the modern rhythms are established. I don't think Marcy is around with Peppermint Patty yet.

[Andrew]

Not yet. No. No.

[Craig]

But there's still stuff like Woodstock gets named in this collection.

[Andrew]

Yep.

[Craig]

There's still evolution happening, even though it is firmly, like, a kind of middle of the road.

[Andrew]

Yeah. It's 20 years in at that point, I believe.

[Craig]

So after schulz dies in 2000, they, of course, like, just. They kept running the comic, and they've continued to run it.

[Andrew]

Yeah, from the beginning, I think. Yeah.

[Craig]

But I believe. Well, so they did not run it from the beginning. Originally, they offered papers the ability to run something called Classic Peanuts. I think they could pick either start in 1970 and go chronologically, or start in 1990 and go chronologically.

[Andrew]

Weird.

[Craig]

And then in 2015, they launched a repackaging called, I think, called Classic Peanuts, which is from the beginning, but colorized.

[Andrew]

Wow.

[Craig]

Yeah. And that. That I believe is still running.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

And you. And these. These repackagings of Peanuts things are both running concurrently. Like, Peanuts is just gonna run until the last newspaper breathes its last dying breath.

[Andrew]

You know, you're right. So in 65. So, like, coming into the second collection we read, you have 65 is Charlie Brown Christmas. It wins a peabody. It wins five Emmys or no. 5 other specials win Emmys. Excuse me. 1967, you have the youe're a Good Man Charlie Brown musical. Andrew, you performed in that, right?

[Craig]

Yes, I did. In a high school. High school production of your Good Man Charlie Brown. I was Charlie Brown.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Good grief.

[Andrew]

Good grief.

[Craig]

It's not the revival version, though. It was the original.

[Andrew]

Is the original good for you?

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Come on. He does, of course, start merchandising it early relative to the lifetime of the comic. By 58, we have the first plastic Snoopy and Charlie Brown quote from Schultz says on whether he minded his character selling merchandise. I don't think there's such a thing as going commercial with a comic strip, because a comic strip is commercial right from the beginning. It's there to sell newspapers. He said, that's another.

[Craig]

That's another interesting dichotomy. Dichotomy that comes out in that interview because he says that and he's not wrong about it. But then he also kind of disparages people who come along making comics specifically to merchandise.

[Andrew]

Correct.

[Craig]

To me, feels like a swipe at Garfield. I don't know that he directly, but I just.

[Andrew]

I.

[Craig]

And we talked about this in just either discord or slack. I don't remember, but I feel like Bill Watterson and Jen. Jim Davis are like the, like, two halves of which way it could have gone. Schultz, like. Yeah, like, it's. It's. Yeah, because Bill Watterson. Yeah, he. He does. He does his little funnies, but he fights against merchandising the whole time. He, like, retired like, he. Calvin and Hobbes entire run is contained within, like, the late middle period of Peanut.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Craig]

Whereas Jim Davis literally sits down at his drafting table and is like, well, Peanuts is very successful and has a dog. So what if a cat.

[Andrew]

Yep. What we'll talk about. We'll talk about.

[Craig]

And it's just. And then it's just aggressively merchandised after that. But Schultz is. Schultz, He. He walks this line where he says, yeah, I don't. I have a. I do insist on approving everything to make sure that it's, like, quality and to make sure that whatever my characters approve on, like, appear on does not go against, like, the spirit of the strip in some way.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

But he's. But. But he's also like, yeah, it's here to sell newspapers. I don't. I don't. Like. I'm not precious about no putting my characters on stuff.

[Andrew]

Yeah, they're selling Ford Falcons in the late 50s, 1960. There are Hallmark cards. 1965, there's a plush Snoopy. They start selling MetLife for a long time. As you mentioned, this is not advertising. Life.

[Craig]

Met life.

[Andrew]

They. In 1969, there was a lunar module named Snoopy. In command was Charlie Brown, which is kind of cool. I did not. I don't remember if this was in his obituary where I saw this. In 1994, he was inducted into the Licensing Industry Merchandisers association hall of Fame. What an honor.

[Craig]

How can we get in there?

[Andrew]

How can we get in there? What. What should we.

[Craig]

Little bobbleheads of us.

[Andrew]

Oh, I think that would be cool.

[Craig]

And probably we'll have other ideas as well.

[Andrew]

Not Funko Pops.

[Craig]

No, not Fungo.

[Andrew]

Don't you dare anyone out. Don't you dare.

[Craig]

Not Funko Pops and not those. The LEGO things that they made to look like Funko Pops made out. I forget what they're called. I forget, like, they're just called, like, big Heads or something. Brickheadz, maybe.

[Andrew]

Think of Brickheadz. Because I think Big Heads might have been a sports.

[Craig]

The Rocco. Rocco's Modern Life character.

[Andrew]

I think Big Heads is like. You get a. It's like a. Is that what it is? Big Head?

[Craig]

I don't know this. We're running. We're running really long already. So let's not speculate about Big Head.

[Andrew]

There was a thing you could put a sports, like, person up on your wall that might have been called Big Heads. I don't remember.

[Craig]

Okay. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Speaking of Garfield, let me get my Garfield stuff out of the way, Andrew.

[Craig]

All right. Get your Garfield stuff out of the way. And then let's just talk about these comments.

[Andrew]

Thanks. In this is based on an interview from Heritage Auctions, though I am reading a summary of that by Robert Wood in screen rant. 1982, Davis is working on Garfield's first animated special. Here comes Garfield, and he is struggling.

[Craig]

Get out of the way.

[Andrew]

Because Garfield's design does not lend itself to a creature dancing over the credits. He's struggling with adapting the Garfield that he's been drawing into a character that can dance.

[Craig]

Yeah. And because he doesn't look like any.

[Andrew]

No, he's just a big fat cap. And Schultz was down the hallway at, like, the same animation studio working on a Peanuts thing. And they bump into each other. And Davis is, like, talking to him about it. And Schultz literally draws the fix quote. He grabbed my paper, and I was like, ah. He's drawing over my sketch. And he said, when Snoopy is on all fours, he has little puppy feet. But when he stands up his back feet get bigger, giving him better balance. And nobody ever notices that. But he looks good standing up as well. So he drew these big fat cat feet with Garfield standing up, and all of a sudden Garfield was balanced. And from that day on, he walked. And it was thanks to Charles Schultz.

[Craig]

So Jim Davis couldn't even invent Garfield standing up on his own without Peanuts. That there's a little. That's a little on the. No. He admitted Snoopy stood up so that Garfield also could stand up later, but only because the same guy did it.

[Andrew]

I want to give Robert Wood credit for this closing paragraph. As iconic Garfield has become as. As iconic as he has become. His modern design is a confluence of unlikely circumstances. From Davis working to combat economic pressures to the legendary Peanuts creator Charles Sludge just happened to be to be next door during a creative crisis. Thankfully, all these events came together to give fans the Garfield who's loved all over the planet.

[Craig]

Thankfully.

[Andrew]

Thankfully.

[Craig]

Was he combating economic pressures? Combat? Jim Davis has only ever worked in concert with economic pressures. I don't know that he's ever combated.

[Andrew]

That's why I brought this article here. There's another screen rant article not by Robert Wood, by Ambrose tardive, titled Peanuts vs Garfield. Charles Schulz secretly considered Jim Davis his arch rival. This is based on the David Michaelis or Michael biography. Who wrote a biography on Charles Schulz. Schultz had to get the better of everyone else on the comics page every day. Quote in the thing that I do best, which is drawing a comic strip. It is important to me that I win. Schultz viewed Davis as a bit of a rival, but David admired him. And there's quotes like in the biography where Schultz is understood to have considered Garfield. Pretty middle brow. Sure took note. Pretty, pretty Ohio took no consideration of real human pain. Davis's character John was so obtuse as not to register his multiple rejections. So no tragedy Lane is predictably endless humiliations at the hands of his date. And Schultz once referred to Garfield in private as the ugliest, most insulting and vicious character he had ever seen. Wow. So.

[Craig]

Oh boy.

[Andrew]

That's that.

[Craig]

He's coming for our lad.

[Andrew]

I'm okay with Garf. I'm okay with it.

[Craig]

No Garf. Garf deserves it. And also, also, Garf can take it. Garf can take it. Garf can withstand it. Garf's still standing. The other. The other.

[Andrew]

Like he's standing now.

[Craig]

He's literally still standing because Charles Schultz told. Told him how to make him stand up. But the Charles Schultz was so the. The other big difference, even though they are both, like, the most commercialized comic strips on the planet.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Craig]

Like, the other big difference is Charles Schultz dies and, like, his son isn't still drawing Peanuts the way that, like, Beetle Bailey or whatever is still stumbling onward.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

Charles Schulz, really, he was like the. Of the. When it came to the comic, he was the only one doing it. He was the beating heart of it. And he and his family didn't want to keep going after he died.

[Andrew]

Who.

[Craig]

And so.

[Andrew]

George Holtz.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

So what they're. What they're running is just like, the comic that he made. They just went back and they're running the comic that he made again.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Whereas Jim Davis is so incidental to the continuing, like, daily operations of Pause, Inc. It's like, Jim Davis could be dead now.

[Andrew]

We don't know.

[Craig]

It could be, like, Joe Biden, and he could just be dead already.

[Andrew]

Come on.

[Craig]

Other people would just be running the strip for him, and we wouldn't know until someone on YouTube, like, busted it open. You know what I mean?

[Andrew]

I know exactly what you mean, Andrew.

[Craig]

Not to get political.

[Andrew]

Volume one, 1950, volume one.

[Craig]

Guys, 41 minutes in.

[Andrew]

Let's talk about the first strip, Andrew. Just the first one.

[Craig]

How I hate him.

[Andrew]

It's an unbelievable comic strip.

[Craig]

It's so wild to me that. And maybe it's just karma for how nasty Shermy is to Charlie Brown. Yeah, that Shermy gets the. He's the only person who talks on this first trip, and he's the first. He's the first one. He's the first one of the original cast to disappear, never to be seen or heard from again.

[Andrew]

Well, here comes old Charlie Brown. Good old Charlie Brown. Yes, sir. Good old Charlie Brown. How I hate him. And this is what's interesting to me, to encounter this version of Charlie Brown hearsay through Shermy. Is that, like, definitely in the second volume. It's well established that everybody hates Charlie Brown and everybody failure. And it's kind of warranted.

[Craig]

Is like, yelling about him all the time. Like, I. Of the strips that I took a picture of so that I could share it here. You could share them on the. Where's the one of Linus screaming at him?

[Andrew]

Oh, he does scream at. He screams at Charlie Brown all the time. Linus does.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

He's so disappointed in his friend. All.

[Craig]

You never do anything. All you ever do is just stand there. You drive everybody crazy, Charlie Brown. I'm so mad, I could scream. I am Screaming. This is Charlie Brown's best friend. This is a. This is a.

[Andrew]

Is that about the little red hair girl?

[Craig]

Yeah, it's a several daily strip little arc where the little red haired girl is moving away and Charlie Brown has not talked to her the entire time she's been living there. And then she leaves. And then Charlie Brown is like, I should have said something. And Linus is like, you were I this. I can't stand you. You are the worst.

[Andrew]

That's really the thing. There's a little less of it in the first volume, but it's very well established. Oh, sorry. Oh, I was gonna talk about the. The running plot thing, because that's very well established by 1969. It's less present in these first three years, but it is a thing that Schultz knows he is a popularizer of, even though comics before him were doing it. It had fallen out of fashion. Kind of a running gag of these gag strips running.

[Craig]

The only thing that feels weird about it in the. In the volume is that I feel like often the arcs were like running weekly and the. The books present 3. Three daily strips per page.

[Andrew]

Yep.

[Craig]

And so you'll get like a story that ends in the middle of a page or whatever.

[Andrew]

It feels that way. Yeah, it feels weird.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Okay, so we're.

[Craig]

And then you just have to accept that the Sunday strips exist in their own separate continuity and often drop right in the middle of an AR making any mention of it to the point where when a Sunday strip does mention an ongoing arc from the daily version of the comic, it's like, wait, what? Like, do they. How much do they know about what's going on in the other reality?

[Andrew]

Yeah. So as you said, we've got a couple of characters here. We've got Shermy Patty, not Peppermint Patty, not Peppermint Patty, Charlie Brown, Snoopy, and Violet, who does kind of. Yes. Exhibit a lot of Lucy characteristics. And then maybe they just put Lucy's brain and when Lucy shows up, they just took all the Lucy out of Violet and put it in Lucy. Yeah.

[Craig]

And even, even Violet does not show up for like four months or something after the comic.

[Andrew]

Can you describe.

[Craig]

Describe little secrets, Craig, because you. That's the other reason they can fit 50 to 52 in this is because the 1950s trip started in like October.

[Andrew]

Oh, good point, good point. You're right, you're right.

[Craig]

But anyway, what were you saying?

[Andrew]

Describe little Stinker Charlie Brown to me as different from the Charlie Brown that we come to know, who is a depressed middle aged man trapped as a little boy.

[Craig]

Lil. I mean, Charlie Brown in these early strips is often still a depressed little old man trapped in a little boy's body. But he gets his laugh.

[Andrew]

He does say I get my laughs.

[Craig]

Like he does. He is sometimes allowed to get the punchline instead of being the punchline.

[Andrew]

Yes. At the expense of very weird Patty.

[Craig]

Often Patty, which we are just. We're just not going to talk. We're just not going to contemplate.

[Andrew]

Any.

[Craig]

Reasons why that might be.

[Andrew]

No. But he will, like, really give her a zinger and it's clear that she's upset. And then the fourth panel is always Charlie Brown in profile running away from getting punched going, I get my laughs. Or some variation or some.

[Craig]

Or some just like, hey, got him again.

[Andrew]

Yes. There. I do, like a little ways in Patty gets it. I get, I get my laughs at Charlie Brown's expense. And they do the same visual gag.

[Craig]

But it's, it's, it's so weird to me that the first, the first ever peanut strip.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Is two children sitting on curb watching Charlie Brown. Like the only time he's ever been just like empty headed and happy.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

He's smiling your life. He's just smiling a big dopey smile. And for the punchline of that strip to be Shermy saying, I hate this guy. This guy sucks.

[Andrew]

The second strip is Patty punching him in the face.

[Craig]

Yeah. The third strip is Snoopy growing a flower out of his head for some reason.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Like he's in Smash Brothers and someone hit him with that flower.

[Andrew]

That's exactly what it is.

[Craig]

And he's got a little flower sitting.

[Andrew]

That's where they got it from.

[Craig]

Continuous damage to him.

[Andrew]

I did really like reading this collection and just seeing the seeds that get planted for future stuff, like. And some of it is just learning a little bit more about Schultz and just he's a guy who grew up in the 20th century in America. So, like, he's gonna start doing baseball stuff. Like he does a lot. There's more golf than I remembered in these collections. They play a lot more golf than I remember.

[Craig]

There's a lot of golf. But it's interesting to see just like bits and pieces. Like every time somebody's named for the first time. I documented it. Like you. You can see Charlie Brown through December, through early December of 1950 is wearing just a regular UN.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Before the stripes come in. Yep.

[Craig]

And then the zig. The horizontal zigzag appears for the first time in December of 1950. I'm trying to find the 1221 comic from 1950.

[Andrew]

Yep, yep.

[Craig]

You see Charlie Brown in his zigzag stripey shirt for the first time. It doesn't have the collar yet. Like, the collar takes another couple of strips to start showing up.

[Andrew]

Yeah. It's really fun to find this stuff.

[Craig]

By 12:29, it's got a collar on it.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

The first time you see it is still just a T shirt.

[Andrew]

You got a collar for Christmas, I guess.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

But, like, all the. All the Linus Beethoven stuff starts with Charlie Brown.

[Craig]

Schroeder Beethoven.

[Andrew]

Oh, Schroeder. Excuse me. I got confused because Schroeder comes first, and it's all very confusing.

[Craig]

Say how weird it is to have characters like Schroeder and Lucy introduced as, like, babies or little toddlers, and then they just age up to be peers of Charlie Brown while Charlie Brown stays the same.

[Andrew]

Yes, it rules.

[Craig]

It must be the same weird virus that killed all the adults in this world that keeps the kids from aging past a certain point. But it's so strange.

[Andrew]

I do think that there is some implied aging that happens even with Charlie Brown, because, like, in some very early strips, there's some goofs that rely on him, like, not being able to read. I think there's, like, some. I hope I'm not misremembering that, but it does feel like they reach, like, first or second grade at one point and then just stop aging. But you're right. Like, Schroeder is born in May of 1951. He obeys a baby.

[Craig]

He's a little baby.

[Andrew]

He's a little.

[Craig]

They can't talk.

[Andrew]

They spend a few months with him just as a baby, and then he encounters a piano, and he can play beautiful music on it, and he's playing.

[Craig]

Beautiful music way before he can talk.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah. But then 10 years later, he is a boy the same age as Charlie Brown, and Lucy's in love with him. And she. She falls in love with him in, like, the mid-50s. I think he hates her. Hates her so much.

[Craig]

Like, I remembered him being, like, indifferent. I remembered maybe him wants her to.

[Andrew]

Get tossed into the sun.

[Craig]

He hates her so, so bad.

[Andrew]

Oh, man. We. We do get a rash of strips in the summer 51 where Charlie Brown is talking to his offstage parents or talking about them a lot, which feels very not peanuts to me.

[Craig]

Lucy is frequently, like, talking about or asking for her daddy. Yeah, that's. That's the whole run of. Well, not like that, but. But, yeah, acknowledging the. The way that adults have To. They must exist in this world for this world to function. Where most of Peanuts, by Schultz's own admission, just kind of takes place in this adult void, where they're like, are there. There are implied teachers in like a school setting.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

Adults are not. Dep. Picked it. And it's not even like a Muppy Muppet baby's nanny thing where it's just like the top half of adults don't exist. Like, you don't see. You don't see anybody's legs. You don't see nothing.

[Andrew]

I think there's an. In the. In the interview, Schultz references like one strip where they were at like a party and he drew some adults in the background and he's like, I hated it. I don't know why I did it. I messed up.

[Craig]

I ruined it.

[Andrew]

I ruined my comic. I ruined my whole comic. On. This is in. I'm in August of 51. There's a few funny strips before we, like, you know, we're gonna bid goodbye to Shermy at some point in.

[Craig]

In 1969.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Is when we're all bid goodbye to Shirt.

[Andrew]

But there I did just like. I don't know about you, Andrew. I read some of these strips. I just laughed out loud. Some of these strips are pretty funny.

[Craig]

You're lol over there.

[Andrew]

I was. Shermy is.

[Craig]

Some of them just have, like, things that have the cadence of a joke that's just like. Wait, what? Yes, that is also true how I ate him thing.

[Andrew]

But.

[Craig]

But tell them. Tell me how funny you think shirt.

[Andrew]

This is. This is a funny one. That got me. He's talking to Violet. He says, your mother is a swell person, Violet. I'm glad you think so, Shermy. Someday she may be your mother in law. Cut to Shermy. I can't stand that woman.

[Craig]

Got her.

[Andrew]

It really got me.

[Craig]

Got her.

[Andrew]

The very next strip. Is this, like, fascinating. This is on page 91, Andrew. It's this fascinating, like, negative strip with like a strip behind it that doesn't. I don't really know what has happened. He's talking to Patty at nighttime. And then in the third panel, they're. They're inverted, but it's clear that there's like another peanut strip behind them. It's very dreamy.

[Craig]

What do you mean there's another peanut strip behind them?

[Andrew]

Oh, is your. Oh, maybe that's a misprint in my edition. It's like. It's like in the background. Let me show you.

[Craig]

Show me what?

[Andrew]

Like, can you see that? Like, there it's nighttime. Is that not real?

[Craig]

Oh, no, that's not real.

[Andrew]

Oh, dude.

[Craig]

Mine is just.

[Andrew]

It's just black. Oh, weird.

[Craig]

It's just black. You just got a weird misfit.

[Andrew]

Oh, I thought it was, like, a weird.

[Craig]

You were, like, reading.

[Andrew]

I thought it was in the negative zone.

[Craig]

You were like, wow. What is Schultz trying to say with this?

[Andrew]

He never did this ever again. That's really funny. But no, it's still interesting. It's still interesting in the third panel that they go into shadow to.

[Craig]

No, that's. Yeah, that. That gets to the. Schultz using the. The limits of the form to his advantage. But no, he was not doing, like, art house. Like, there's, like, secret penis. Like, play, read, play peanuts backwards, and you'll hear stuff about Satan or whatever.

[Andrew]

He's not doing that. In 51. They call him a blockhead for the first time. Or they use blockhead for the first time.

[Craig]

This. This run is, like, preoccupied with kids eating mud pies. Like, kids just, like, eating.

[Andrew]

Oh, my God, Violet's mud loves to make mud pies. The. Oh, I want to talk about a couple of the Snoopy tropes in this collection.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

Because we're not at talk, like, walking, thinking Snoopy yet. So, like, one of the things that Snoopy always does is he, like, comes up to you to get food. Like, you. You have food, and he runs up and eats it. It's. It's a common joke.

[Craig]

We do have often.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we do have Charlie Brown coming home and getting attacked by Snoopy kind of. Of what would book made me think of Calvin and Hobbes. Like, Calvin coming home and Hobbs attacking him kind of thing. There's also the people think Snoopy is really cute while Charlie Brown is just sitting there feeling terrible about himself trope. That happens a lot, but you don't get so very many, if any. Like, solo Snoopy strips something that crops up a lot in the. In the 10th volume, it's like four panels of Snoopy, like, silently having emotions and then dancing. Like, that happens.

[Craig]

Like, Snoop. Snoopy's the only. Yes, Snoopy's the only character who gets to have, like, fantasy and whimsy in his life.

[Andrew]

Yep.

[Craig]

And everybody's life. Everybody else's life is just, like, all too real all the time.

[Andrew]

All the time. But yeah, here's a good.

[Craig]

Here's a good strip from 1951. Please. Here's. Here's one that's just like. Wait, what? Okay, Charlie Brown and Patty are sitting and they're talking. Patty is saying in the first panel. But that's silly. You can't say you just don't like something Charlie Brown. You have to. Have to reason. I've got a good reason, says Charlie Brown. I'm prejudiced.

[Andrew]

I think that's. He's getting. He gets a lot. That's. That's. Kids say the darndest things. You said it earlier, like, he gets a lot out of putting a big word in one of these kids mouths and having them use it correctly, but in a sort of strange way where you're like, how did you learn that word and why are you using it right now? The thing I want to make sure we talked about is Violet is the first football pull. I believe it is a daily strip. He'll kick my hand. I just know he will. I can't go through with it. And then she moves away from the football. You didn't kick the ball, Charlie Brown. Why didn't you kick it? I did, but I like that the first instance of the ball pull is a. She doesn't want to get hit. That's not what Lucy's doing. It's not what Lucy does later. But yeah, it's pretty good. And I do like that. We watched Schroeder grow up and I. You don't like it? Well, okay. It's been some questions.

[Craig]

Yeah. Like I've. And this happens also with. With Lucy and with Linus. Linus, who also is a baby.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

And by the time you get to 1969, 1970, he's a full fledged compatriot of Charlie Brown who is in his same class at school. But then even later, Lucy and Linus have another little brother named Rerun who ages up to be like a little bit younger than Charlie Brown and Linus and then stops aging.

[Andrew]

Correct.

[Craig]

I just don't. Why does every. I mean, I guess it's kind of like Pokemon. Like everything hatches from an egg. And then you just like train the ones that you want until they're the level that you want them to be.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And age doesn't factor into it. I guess that helps me understand it a little bit better.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it is.

[Craig]

I'm prejudiced.

[Andrew]

I'm prejudiced. The thing that is whack about reading these early scripts when he's introducing these characters is it is like these babies are just growing in a garden because it's like, where does Schroeder come from? Who is related to him? No one. But they all go take care of him at whatever house he lives in. And then Lucy is similarly Born or hatched somewhere and then they all spend time with her.

[Craig]

Lucy doesn't start as a baby, though. She serves as like a.

[Andrew]

As like like a year or two younger.

[Craig]

And like sometimes. But sometimes she can speak correct. But the way the rest of them do. But sometimes she speaks like a widow baby.

[Andrew]

A widow baby. Even. Even wood were then Sally, when Sally shows up, because Sally is all over the second collection.

[Craig]

Sally's all over the second collection, but has not hatched in this first collection.

[Andrew]

Nope. And so, like the other things we get, we get the first Lucy holding the football, which is a Sunday Panel in November. 52. We get the debut of Charlie Brown's kite. We get the first use of good grief.

[Craig]

And then Lucy's also the only character in these early strips who has a full eyeball.

[Andrew]

She. I don't like her eyes.

[Craig]

A full circular eyeball. And from a. From a. From a pro in a. In profile, she does not have them while looking at her head on. And she. She does eventually lose them. By the end of 1952, she has lost her creepy eyes.

[Andrew]

I. I think in a way it helps her read a little younger in some of the shots, but it makes her also feel very strung out.

[Craig]

It also makes. It makes her feel like she's going to come stab me for something.

[Andrew]

Well, she is. And then Linus is born towards the end of 52. They prop him up with a bunch of boards so he doesn't fall over because he's just a little guy.

[Craig]

And there are no adults around to take care of him.

[Andrew]

Nope. But he is definitely Lucy's little brother, which makes sense. And then the very last strip in the collection is Violet's throwing a party and Charlie runs there and nobody notices. He's not even. He's not even there. And then ever go. He's like, nobody even noticed that I wasn't there.

[Craig]

Nobody noticed that you weren't there. We had all the other kids.

[Andrew]

Yep.

[Craig]

Including Schroeder, who has grown up from a baby into appear in the space of two years.

[Andrew]

So the second collection, Andrew Feel Right Away. 1970, 1969, 1970. Right away. There are little, like more running plots that are happening as we've been talking about generally. How do you feel about solo Snoopy time? And I don't like. And that's a broad. As we said, there's like a lot of different types of Snoopy strips. There are Snoopy writing a novel. There's Red Baron stuff. There's Snoopy and Woodstock. We're going to talk about The Great Beagle, I guess. But there's also just, like, the head beagle. The head Beagle. Excuse me.

[Craig]

Great Pumpkin.

[Andrew]

There are just Snoopy strips where he is just, like, walking around, and then he breaks into a dance. And I guess that's what Charles Schulz wanted to draw that day. And I don't really know if I. I don't know how I feel about him.

[Craig]

It's. Well, one reason I wanted to do a book that was like, deep into the run is because I wanted to see. I wanted to see both, like, primordial.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Like iconoclastic, kind of weird little baby peanuts. And then I wanted to. I wanted to get a glimpse of it once it. It had become, like, greeting card peanuts.

[Andrew]

Correct. Yeah.

[Craig]

And there's a lot of. I mean, there's still a lot of the DNA of the early strips in. In the later ones. Like, it's. It's much different, but the. I think the voice and the perspective are still pretty compatible.

[Andrew]

But. And I mean. Well, no. What. I think. What. Yes. And it has the. In the first. I don't recall a lot of these happening in the first few years. There are. There are a bit more that have an. Little, like, softness. Like, the point of the strip is a soft. Of that, like, daily strip is to make you go, oh. Or, like, feel good.

[Craig]

There's a little bit of softness. There's a little bit of just, like, what if Snoopy is dancing? And anything. Something about dancing. And then, like, little old grandmas can have, like, that little strip of Snoopy dancing, like, magneted up to their fridge. Just, like, yellowing and yellowing and yellowing for 15 years.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And it. And nothing.

[Craig]

And then. And then also, I think you also get a lot of strips that are a lot wordier. You get a lot more.

[Andrew]

A lot wordier. Yep.

[Craig]

You get a lot more. Here is a. Here's just, like, a square that's full of text and has little heads at the bottom.

[Andrew]

Yes. Well, and Sally's whole thing is that she has a lot of words to explain how she does not understand things. Like, her whole deal is she can yell in big fonts with, like, kind of big ideas about how she does not understand school at all. It's a pretty good bit, in my opinion.

[Craig]

And we've also. With both Sally and Snoopy, but I think probably other characters as well. Like, you've. You've also introduced this other convention where characters can be writing something and whatever they're writing appears in, like, a different typeface.

[Andrew]

Yep, yep, yep.

[Craig]

At the, at the top of the panel.

[Andrew]

Yep. But yeah, I mean, I like Snoopy a lot. It's just. It's just interesting just encountering the different modes because. Yeah, the. The him being an author thing is a running plot. He both has to serve the head.

[Craig]

Beagle as a beagle and briefly becomes the head beagle.

[Andrew]

He is inaugurated on television as the head beagle. I don't know.

[Craig]

Can they watch it? They watch a lot.

[Andrew]

What happened there? Woodstock is like publishing his tell all book about being in the Snoopy administration. It's all if. When did Watergate happen?

[Craig]

Not till after this.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Wondering what he's. Well, there was also. There's a bit. I don't know.

[Craig]

He's just like. He's just the head beagle. He's just like Snoopy lives a life that is. Got a bunch of weird like admin overhead in it. Yeah. Like he's. Yeah. Well, he just like pressure gets to him and he's true.

[Andrew]

He's also very horny. Snoopy is.

[Craig]

Snoopy is kissing everybody.

[Andrew]

Everyone, all the time.

[Craig]

I mean, especially Peppermint Patty who does think that he's a child.

[Andrew]

I love that bit.

[Craig]

And have always thinks that Snoopy is a child.

[Andrew]

Peppermint Patty just thinks he's a weird little kid. That weird that you hang out with Charlie Brown. I think it's funny. It is weird when you think about how much Snoopy kisses her, but it is still a fun.

[Craig]

It's also weird when you think about how Snoopy can walk on like is a. Is a biped who can like put on a little suit and go to your school dance with you.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Like he shouldn't be able to do. And he could. He could write to you if you wanted to.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Like he is function. He is basically a kid.

[Andrew]

Yeah. It's true. There's a lot of good baseball in this collection, in my opinion.

[Craig]

There's high, high scoring games though.

[Andrew]

Oh my God. Like 40 to 0.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Really pretty good stuff.

[Craig]

My favorite baseball arc was the arc where they were on a winning streak is because two teams in a row forfeited against their bad baseball team. And Charlie Brown was like, we can. If we get another. If we get another win, we'll be at the top of the league. And then the team, the other team shows up. He's like, oh, no.

[Andrew]

Yeah. I also like the one where it's like Tibble or Thibault. There's like Pepper and Patty borrows Charlie Brown's glove to go play a game against Another team.

[Craig]

Oh, yeah, that little nasty kid.

[Andrew]

And then they win the game with Charlie Brown's glove. And Charlie Brown's like, oh, that's cool. And then this kid won't give the glove back. And there's a strip where the kid says to Pepper Patty, like, what, does he think he's better than me? Is he better than me? And Charlie Brown is so elated that someone would think he thinks he's better than someone else. It's so wild.

[Craig]

So Charlie Brown.

[Andrew]

I also like that there's strips about lowering the mound. That's a. That was. That had literally just happened. They lowered the pitcher's mound after 1968 because pitching was too good.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And so I appreciate Charles Schultz doing strips about it in 1969. It's pretty funny.

[Craig]

So isn't that. Wasn't the punchline of that something about how Charlie Brown is not good enough to merit.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

Lowering the mound.

[Andrew]

I don't know what else struck you in this collection, Andrew. What did you. What do you think about, like, Linus or Schroeder? We talked a little bit about how much Schroeder hates Lucy, but, yeah, Schroeder.

[Craig]

Is just like a he in. In the later 52 strips when he had become a small boy.

[Andrew]

It's mostly about Beethoven.

[Craig]

It's like, it's still mostly about Beethoven, but he is, like, out and about and, like, interacting with other characters sometimes in. By the time you get to this collection, he is almost never. Not at that piano.

[Andrew]

That's true.

[Craig]

Almost never. Not with Lucy. Like, Schroeder does not. You don't think a lot about, like, how does Schroeder interact with. With Charlie Brown? How does Schroeder interact with Linus? Like, it's not that they never appear together. It's just that it's usually in a group setting, and it's usually the type of Peanuts comic. Like, a lot of them are driven by the specific personality of the characters that. That. That Schultz chooses to. To feature. But, like, if you find a later strip that still has, like, Patty or Violet or somebody in it, there's still a. There's still an element of just, like. We just need an interchangeable kid who can say these words.

[Andrew]

Yes. Because there's a couple strips where Lucy and maybe it's Patty or. I don't remember, it's Patty or Violet are both at Schroeder's piano. And, like, Lucy's trying to. Like, I don't know what she's trying to do, but she's Trying to get Schroeder to pay attention to her by talking about how great he is to somebody else. And, like, I don't know. And. But you're right.

[Craig]

Like, there's no specificity to the relationship.

[Andrew]

It's just that there's another person there. Yeah. Whereas, like, Schroeder. Yeah. Schroeder never really interacts with Linus or Charlie Brown unless it's, like, a big group Sunday strip or something. Yeah, yeah.

[Craig]

Where, like, have, like, a relationship. That's specific. Linus and Lucy have a relationship. That's specific.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Even, like, Snoopy and Lucy.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Have a relationship. That's specific because Snoopy is always giving her unwanted physical attention.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

Lucy is always like, ugh.

[Andrew]

But, yeah, there's. It's funny. I don't know. It's good.

[Craig]

Yeah, it's funny. It's Peanuts.

[Andrew]

Did you feel like it was more or less interesting than you expected it to be? The second.

[Craig]

The second nine to 70?

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Yeah. I mean, it is interesting to just contemplate. I mean, we've been doing this podcast for, like, 12 or 13 years.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Craig]

And it feels like forever. It does feel like you're locked in.

[Andrew]

Here with me, but.

[Craig]

Yes. Well, no, you're in here with me, actually, I'm sorry to say. But just to think, you know, what happens when we get to year 20 and we introduce some innovation that makes this, like, there's a. There's a period of the show before we did that and then a period after we did.

[Andrew]

I can't wait to meet Rerun. I can't wait to meet our rerun.

[Craig]

That's what I feel like about, like, Woodstock getting named Woodstock, who is kind of Cousin Oliver. The comic, in a lot of ways at this point is just, like, a lot of these comics are about Woodstock, and Woodstock is fine, but he doesn't talk and.

[Andrew]

No, a lot of them are like bird flies. Funny.

[Craig]

He exists as a. He's a big one for greeting card peanuts.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

Because you don't need to. You don't want to have a big speech bubble on a greeting card.

[Andrew]

Well. And you don't need to want to.

[Craig]

Have, like, a little animal doing a cute thing.

[Andrew]

It helps. It helps that in. Now there is a second animal that Snoopy can be in strips with that can, like, Snoopy can kind of play straight man to. Sometimes.

[Craig]

Because it's not like that. Like, Woodstock's not talking to him either. No, it's. They have a R2D2C3PO correct relationship where Woodstock can say, Little lines. And Snoopy knows what.

[Andrew]

Yes, that is true.

[Craig]

The audience does not.

[Andrew]

But like, some of them are just like, Woodstock is flying around upside down and Snoopy goes, that's weird. Or Woodstock flies into something and goes, he's bad at flying. It's like, okay, I didn't like it.

[Craig]

I don't even mind Woodstock. It's just like such a different comic after Woodstock shows up. Because Woodstock does not. Also does not really interact with anybody else.

[Andrew]

No. Yeah, that's not like.

[Craig]

It's not like Woodstock and. And Linus hang out all the time, you know?

[Andrew]

Yeah, that was something. That's. When you read it, like, all back to back like this, you do just get a different sense of. I don't know that I would have the same sense of the comic if I was reading it day to day, where it's like, wow, he's like kind of like. I was struck by how he would have a running gag going, but then would even take like, daily breaks from it to do a Snoopy. Like, he'd have something going on with like, the little red haired girl or Linus's teacher, and then there would just be like a. Yeah, you're Snoopy. Like watching Woodstock.

[Craig]

Time. Time to do Snoopy.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Because you just. You just need one every once in a while, you know?

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Just feel it.

[Craig]

But I enjoyed this in so far as I think. I mean, especially for our generation where we're born in, like, the mid-80s and peanuts is like a well established thing. Like, I feel like if you read pretty much any Peanuts produced between, like, I don't know, the mid, late 60s and the end of the strip, it's almost impossible unless it, like, references a specific current event to tell exactly what era of the strip it's coming from.

[Andrew]

Yep.

[Craig]

Like one. One tell for like, late. Late Peanuts. Is that the. The line where it gets a lot shakier as. As Schultz.

[Andrew]

That's true. Yep. Yep.

[Craig]

And it's. We haven't talked about a lot. It is the difference in line work between 1950 peanuts and 1970 peanuts is. Is. It's just. It's subtle, but it's just much thicker lines in the older comics, which combined with, like, the more, like, looking like versions of the characters just makes everything look cuter.

[Andrew]

Yeah, they are all cuter.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Whereas there. Yeah, there's a lot more real estate on the face in the later ones.

[Craig]

Right.

[Andrew]

For them to make all of their various. Yeah, they just have.

[Craig]

I wonder if there's a here.

[Andrew]

Okay, okay.

[Craig]

No, just. Just keep Keep talking.

[Andrew]

Yeah, no, no, no. But yeah, we haven't talked too much about other characters that get introduced in the interregnum between these two. It was kind of fun reading them like this because it is sort of like how we did our Babysitters Club episodes where it's like, all right, what happened in between these. Who did we. Whose lives changed? You know, like Peppermint Patty gets introduced, Franklin gets introduced. We say really goodbye to Patty and Violet. You know, Snoopy learns to talk somehow Linus becomes Charlie Brown's best friend. The things that have gotten introduced are like the Great Pumpkin and the Red Baron. There's some Red Baron stuff in here. It's not Red Baron. Has never been my. Like, Like Snoopy that, like.

[Craig]

No, I don't.

[Andrew]

Flying Ace. Snoopy has never been my Snoopy.

[Craig]

I don't care particularly about. About the SOP with Camel or whatever. I did. I did forget that it's not just like World War I. Flying Ace is a. Is a subset of a different kind of Snoopy thing where he is just. He's just the world's famous. Whatever. Like, whatever it is that he is doing. He's the world. He's the world famousist at it, and he's doing it.

[Andrew]

I do like that.

[Craig]

I was looking. I was looking at old Peanuts and newer Peanuts and trying to decide if there was like, a marked difference in like, the head to body ratio. And actually it's like, kind of. It's mostly pretty consistent.

[Andrew]

Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Craig]

The lines on the. On the lines on the face get thinner and it leaves more. Slightly more room for.

[Andrew]

For various expressions.

[Craig]

Yeah, for sure.

[Andrew]

But yeah, that's Peanuts, I think. You know.

[Craig]

You know Peanuts.

[Andrew]

You know Peanuts.

[Craig]

That's the thing we didn't start the episode with is like, this is one of the most encountered works of the 20th century.

[Andrew]

The man made it until he died. Like, what he, like, stopped very shortly before he passed away. He had. He had colon cancer. It was very hard for him to make the strip. He kind of knew that he was going to pass soon and just decided, you know, I guess we have to stop now.

[Craig]

And it wasn't even decided. Like, he. There are. I was. I was reading what the. What the illness was. Was like for him, and it's in its later stages. And he was, you know, he was getting chemotherapy.

[Andrew]

Yeah. He was not able to, like, he worked.

[Craig]

He couldn't, like, read, and he just kind of felt like it was taken from him.

[Andrew]

Yeah, he was kind of.

[Craig]

Yeah, here's. Here's at the. The end of this, like, the life and times of Charles Schultz thing. That was in the. The first volume that we read. On December 14, 1999, at the age of 77, Schultz announced his retirement. I never dreamed that this would happen to me, he said. I always had the feeling that I would stay with the strip until I was in my early 80s or something like that. But all of a sudden it's gone. It's been taken away from me. I did not take it away. He emphasized this was taken away from me.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

So he. He stops doing it and then he passes away shortly after. And just like a little, like, sweet, but also very sad little sentiment at the end of this that I think is of a piece with. With a lot of peanuts is he pulled up the covers. At 9:45pm just hours before the final peanut strip appeared in Sunday newspapers around the world, Charles Schultz died, his life entwined to the very end with his art. As soon as he ceased to be a cartoonist, he ceased to be. Yeah, like, dang.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Was that. That wasn't the Garrison Keeler piece. That's something else.

[Craig]

No, that's not the killer piece. It's the. It's the bit at the end before the interview. Okay. After the comic. Sure, sure.

[Andrew]

Yeah. They're good collection.

[Craig]

The extended bio. Yeah. There is less, like, history stuff in the. In the. The tenth collection. Like, all of them have an intro by somebody.

[Andrew]

Mo Willems has the one that we read. The later ones.

[Craig]

Yeah, like, whatever. It's fine. But the. The first one. The first one specifically has a Get Wrecked Mo Willems. Yeah. You did the dirty pigeon. Congratulations.

[Andrew]

We're a Nuffle Bunny fan in our house. We like Nuffle Bunny a lot.

[Craig]

Oh, is that a Mo Willems?

[Andrew]

It is, yeah. It's a good one.

[Craig]

No, he does the pigeon.

[Andrew]

I know about the pigeon. Yeah. Nuffle Buck.

[Craig]

Funny.

[Andrew]

Check it out.

[Craig]

I got. I just. I don't need Mo Willems. I have as. I have as much Willems as I feel that I need. Yeah, I get it.

[Andrew]

You're defoe, man. I think we've maybe under discussed because they're so discussed just like, how well the archetypes of these characters work. And they're like, they're so specific to who these little kids are that I don't read them as. And then he did a so and so type. Like, he's just like, they've been these kids for so long that it's more likely that I'm going to encounter another character and go, oh, that reminds me of Lucy, you know.

[Craig]

Well, and Peanuts is so entwined in stuff like I encountered in this for the. Maybe for the first time I'd ever had the thought, like, oh, did. Did the phrase security blanket come from Peanuts? And I believe it did. Really? Like, I believe it's a reference to Linus's blanket.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

I could be wrong about that, but that's what is strongly implied. Multiple points in, like, the, The. Just the reading that I did about people writing about Peanuts.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Well, I buy it. It's a lot of, you know, but it is fun to see it evolve. I think if you are, like, have a passing interest in Peanuts, you will probably enjoy going back to the beginning and seeing what's back there. And just open the. Open the. Open the newspaper. See what's in. If you can get a newspaper, just open it and see what the funnies are. See what the. The daily Peanuts is. It's probably gonna, you know, make you laugh, maybe warm your heart a little bit. That's what I got.

[Craig]

Yeah. You'll find something you enjoy in here. It's. It's. I. What I don't know is if you just want like a big, Big, like one volume thing that covers a lot of different eras of the series. I'm not 100% sure what you'd buy rather than just like, trying to find the whole series front to back. But I bet if you just like, pick a. Pick a year that means something to you, whether it's like the year that you were born or just like a year where something else happened that you. That you have some attachment to. Just, like, buy the volume that covers that. That span, and I'm sure you will find a cross section of, like, stuff that you enjoy. Yeah, that's the one. That's the one thing about this being, like, the mind of a single individual for 50 years is it's pretty consistent over the run.

[Andrew]

And I strongly enjoy reading it chronologically like this. I know there are collections, like, they made all sorts of different collections that I'm sure include, like, little chronological runs, but are a little more chopped up. But no, seek these out and enjoy.

[Craig]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

Charlie Brown can speak for the feelings in your heart.

[Craig]

Yeah. And he would say, I'm depressed.

[Andrew]

That's often what he would say. All right, that's our show, everybody. Tell us about your favorite Peanuts gag or your favorite Peanuts character. One I didn't mention was a very funny music joke from the first collection where somebody's whistling a tune and then somebody is whistling, but it's displayed as like music notes and a very complicated chord and then somebody says, what a snob. That's pretty good. I think I have ever said that to our friends Steve Dowling, which is pretty funny to me. But yeah, send those to us@overdue pod. No overdue podmail.com put as many ads in there as you want. It'll. It'll find its way to us. Find us on social media at Overdue Pod. I want to thank everybody for reaching out in the past week or so, including John, Veronica, Jess, Phoenix, Parker, Adam, Megan, Emilio, Marcy and many more. Marcy.

[Craig]

Sir.

[Andrew]

Sir. Our theme song is composed by Nick Laurengis. Folks, if folks, Andrew. Folks, folks, if Andrew wants to know more about the show, where should he go?

[Craig]

Please tell me. No overdue podcast.com I know where it is. Thank you very much. That's the Internet website where we have the books that we have read and the ones we are going to read also. Patreon.com overdue pod is where you get bonus episodes and other things. Access to our Discord community, our monthly newsletter that goes up every month, which is how often monthly newsletters usually do go up. So that's an expectation that we try to meet for it. But yeah, if you support us financially, you pay for books, you pay for hosting, you pay for lots of just like life stuff that we need to make the show possible. So yeah, thank you to everybody who supports us currently and if you're thinking about doing it again. Patreon.com/overdue Pod to find out more, we're starting to post episodes of our next long read project, the Silly Marillion over there, based on Tolkien's posthumously published the Silmarillion. Man, my mouth is just done talking for today.

[Andrew]

If you haven't gone back and listened. We did American Psycho last week and we did a collab with two Scary Didn't Watch. You can also hear us on their feed, so go find Too Scary didn't watch.

[Craig]

Yes, often when we do a guest app we try to do something that just goes up as it is on both feeds. But this is a totally different episode. We did the movie American Psycho for their podcast and we had a much better time with the movie than we did with the book.

[Andrew]

So if you it's really a two part episode just on two different podcasts.

[Craig]

Very much a two part episode. And if you have been as some people in the Discord have been like putting off the, the like our episode about the book because you're intimidated by things that you've heard about what happens in the book. Like actually start with the, start with their episode first and then go back to ours, I think.

[Andrew]

Or just download ours. Don't listen. The download counts. And then just go listen to theirs. Yeah, it all, it all, all that money spends. It's good.

[Craig]

Next week, tens and twenties even my podcast co host.

[Andrew]

Next week I'm going to be reading A Boy's Own Story by Edmund White. We'll have the rest of the July schedule out to you soon and then we'll also start spitting out the some of the Babysitters Club episodes this summer as that exclusivity window closes and all those folks start to get the Silmarillion episodes instead.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

All right, Andrew, get us out of here. Good grief.

[Craig]

Everybody, until we talk to you next time, please, unlike Charlie Brown, try to be happy. That was a headgum podcast.