Ep 716 - An Extraordinary Union (Loyal League #1), by Alyssa Cole

Summary

Overdue Podcast Episode 716

“An Extraordinary Union (Loyal League #1)” by Alyssa Cole

Release Date: August 18, 2025
Hosts: Andrew & Craig

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Craig shares his reading of An Extraordinary Union by Alyssa Cole, the first entry in her Loyal League trilogy. The hosts delve into Cole’s compelling blend of Civil War-era espionage and romance, centering the experience of a Black female spy and her partnership—both romantic and professional—with a white Pinkerton agent. Alongside a frank discussion of the book’s plot and characters, the episode spends rich time on Cole’s place in the romance genre, her commitment to representation, and the controversies that have shaped the world of romance publishing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: Book and Author Context

• Not a “Union” Labor Book: Kicking off with banter about the title, the hosts joke about expecting a novel on labor unions (03:06), but clarify Cole’s "union" is both romantic and connected to the United States.
• About Alyssa Cole:
  • Born in 1982, Cole writes both romance and thrillers.
  • Notable work beyond this book includes When No One is Watching (Edgar Award winner) and A Princess in Theory (NYT Notable).
  • Her roots in historical romance anthologies and interest in diverse love stories is highlighted (07:36–09:48).
• Cole’s Inspiration: Sparked by Ta-Nehisi Coates’ blogging on Black Civil War spies, plus childhood experiences using white-out to "correct" romance novel descriptions for representation (09:48–11:25).

  “My career, some level, is making sure people don’t have to do that... The first time she didn’t have to mentally or literally sub out the author’s descriptions in order to see herself.” (10:13, Andrew quoting Slate)

• Based on Real People: Main character Elle is loosely inspired by Mary Bowser, a real Black woman who spied on the Confederacy, and her love interest, Malcolm, is based on Pinkerton agent Timothy Webster (11:25–13:21).

Reception and Romance Industry Controversies

• Major Awards & Recognition: The book was widely acclaimed—ALA’s RUSA Best Romance, Vulture and Publisher’s Weekly top lists (13:42).
• RITA & RWA Controversy: An Extraordinary Union was controversially snubbed for the RITA (RWA’s top award). The award at the time had never gone to a Black author, causing a larger discourse about racism in the romance community (14:31–20:28).

  “The books that beat Cole... were all by white women, all but one set in 19th-century Britain featuring white women who fall in love with aristocrats. The heroes were, respectively, one rogue, two dukes, two lords, and an earl.” (16:02–16:47, Andrew quoting The Guardian)

• Expanded Scandals & Aftermath: The snub and further incidents (including the suspension of Courtney Milan) led to organizational upheaval, cancellations of awards, and eventually bankruptcy for the RWA (19:12–20:28).
• Cole on Political Stakes of Black Romance: Even telling a straightforward love story is political for a Black author.

  “You literally have to become an activist to write a story about two people meeting and falling in love... People just want to write love stories.” (20:46–21:59, Andrew quoting Cole)

• Shifting Social Media Context: The hosts note how much the Twitter-centric shape of these debates feel like a “different universe” now (23:38–24:38).

Espionage, Romance & Plot Breakdown

Characters & Superpowers

• Elle Burns: A free Black woman posing as mute slave; gifted with eidetic (photographic) memory; motivated by a desire to aid the cause through her rare skills, aware of her role as a “model minority” and the burden that brings (34:55–39:35).
• Malcolm McCall: Scottish Pinkerton agent, undercover as Southern soldier. High charisma and moral awareness; struggles with “white savior” dynamics and tries to actively counteract them (40:27–45:35).

  “He is a Scott. His family was displaced by the Brits... he is fighting for the North because he does not... he sees a version of the oppression his people have faced with what black people are facing in the South.” (44:29–44:56, Craig)

• Romantic Beats: The novel follows classic romance beats (meet-cute, tension, jealousy, reunion), all set against high-stakes spy missions and life-threatening danger.

Key Plot Points

• Elle’s Mission: Embedded in the Richmond household of Senator Caffrey as a spy. Smuggles intelligence north via coded messages. Uses her prodigious memory to collect and relay information (34:14–36:13).
• Malcolm’s Involvement: Arrives at the household under false pretenses, quickly attracted to and impressed by Elle.
• Historical Plotline: Discovery and foiling of a Confederate plan to raise a sunken ironclad gunboat and break the Union blockade (51:34–52:08).

  “They are planning to resurrect a sunken Union ironclad gunboat... and this could potentially tip the scales of the war.” (52:05, Craig)

• Escalating Stakes: The pair save and are saved by one another amidst threats from Confederate soldiers, slavers, and house politics. Power dynamics between Malcolm and Elle—racial, gendered, and personal—are given consistent thoughtful attention.

Levity & Modernity in Tone

• Cole infuses humor and playful affection amid the tension:
  • Jokes about “playing doctor” and “sexiest mummy in Richmond” (46:15–48:19)
  • Romantic banter that sometimes anachronistically references concepts (e.g., playing doctor, mummies).
  • Hosts note these as Cole letting herself (and the characters) have fun:

    “Malcolm in particular gets to have little one liners now and again where he... jokes about their situation.” (53:13, Craig)

• Sex scenes are steamy but always aware of the historical power imbalances; the book treats consent and trust intentionally.

Ending—Happily Ever After, or Not?

• The plot resolves with Elle and Malcolm escaping together, sharing a "for now" happiness (60:21–61:14), but with explicit acknowledgement that life for Black people after the Civil War remains dangerous and uncertain.

  “It is not... a guaranteed happily ever after, but at least a happy ending for now.” (61:14, Craig)

• Elle is introduced to Malcolm’s family; their continued story is set up for sequels.

Representation & Genre Frictions

• The hosts discuss how Cole integrates the realities of race in the Civil War south with genre conventions.
• The duality: An Extraordinary Union is very much a romance in structure—those seeking pure historical espionage may feel shortchanged, per Goodreads reviews (67:07–71:22).
• Craig praises how Cole keeps Elle’s wariness around Malcolm central, avoiding an uncritical white savior narrative (63:13–64:42).
• The hosts highlight reader responses, particularly from Black women who appreciated seeing themselves in a historical romance and feeling, even briefly, that a happy ending was possible (72:32–73:29).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Representation (Cole via Slate):

  “You literally have to become an activist to write a story about two people meeting and falling in love. ...It is erasure.” (20:53, Andrew)

• On Romance Industry Whiteness:

  “The books that beat Cole... were all by white women, all but one set in 19th-century Britain featuring white women who fall in love with aristocrats. The heroes were, respectively, one rogue, two dukes, two lords, and an earl.” (16:02–16:47)

• On Elle’s Complexity:

  “She feels the pressure of being... a model minority... as kind of the words that come out of her mouth in the novel.” (39:35, Craig)

• Craig on the Novel’s Tone:

  “This is a horny ebook. So keep that in mind as you listen, as you share this listening experience with others.” (06:52, Craig)

• Example of Cole’s Humor:

  “Ironclad,” she whispered excitedly. Elle felt a rush nearly as good as the climax she just experienced as the random information formed into unified theory.
  “I’m not familiar with that particular euphemism, but I’m not opposed to it.” (53:13, Malcolm)

• Andrew on Romance Genre Frictions:

  “What have people internalized about who can be the protagonist of a romance book?... You come to a book that’s set in the Civil War from the perspective of a black woman and you’re like, well, this... has to be heavy... and then what’s all this... lightweight, happily for now romance stuff doing in here?” (74:47–75:43)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:24–09:11: Introduction to Alyssa Cole & her bibliography
• 09:48–13:21: Cole’s influences; real historical roots for characters
• 13:42–24:38: Critical reception; RITA/RWA controversies; industry context
• 29:40–36:13: Plot setup; Elle and her work as a spy
• 36:13–45:35: Character dynamics, power, and memory
• 46:15–48:19: Humor and modern banter in character interactions
• 52:05–61:14: Main espionage plot, climax, and resolution
• 67:07–73:29: Goodreads reviews, genre discussion, and audience response
• 74:47–79:26: Reflections on genre, representation, and book structure

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In Closing

An Extraordinary Union is deftly praised for its balance of plotting, romance, complex character relationships, and for the vital perspective it brings to both the Civil War and the romance genre. Craig and Andrew recommend the book for both genre fans and those interested in how fiction can address representation and historical erasure—while also being genuinely entertaining, suspenseful, and yes, a little bit steamy.

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Transcript

[Andrew]

This is a headgun podcast.

[Craig]

In Artificial Wisdom by Thomas R. Weaver. Salvation has a price. Is humanity willing to pay it?

[Andrew]

In a climate ravaged landscape where AI and humans vie for political power, a journalist must unravel a murderous plot that will either upend the world or save it. In 2050, investigative journalist Marcus Tully is grieving his wife and unborn child 10 years after they perished in a deadly heat wave that gripped the Persian Gulf. Now the whole planet is both burning and drowning, and the nations of the world decide to elect a global leader to steer humanity through the climate apocalypse. The final two candidates, a former US President and Solomon, the first artificial intellect to hold political office.

[Craig]

Wait a second.

[Andrew]

Whoa. AI Politicians. As election day races closer, Craig Solomon's creator is murdered and it's up to Tully to find the culprit. Soon, Tully is unraveling a conspiracy that goes to the highest levels. As the investigation heats up and the planet hurdles ever closer to the brink. T must find the truth and convince the world to face it. Because salvation has a price. But is humanity willing to pay it?

[Craig]

I don't know if we're willing to pay. I said that earlier and I wasn't sure and you just said it and I'm not.

[Andrew]

Still not sure. I'm not sure. You're gonna have to read this book and figure it out.

[Craig]

Okay? You will have to read it. So I'm calling our listeners to action. Artificial Wisdom is a pitch perfect near future thriller wrapped in a murder mystery. It's a masterclass in playing an intimate story out on a global stage dealing with big societal issues of climate change and technology. Alongside genuine human drama. It adds to the growing conversation about AI by presenting a speculative world in which humanity is trying to determine if surrendering control to an AI in the interests of solving climate change is in the best interest of humanity and the planet. I just think that our listeners might want to read Artificial Wisdom by Thomas R. Weaver.

[Andrew]

While Andrew and Craig believe the joy of discovery is crucial to enjoying any.

[Craig]

Well told tale, they will not shy.

[Andrew]

Away from spoiling specific story beats when necessary. Plus, these are books you should have read by now.

[Craig]

Hey everybody. Welcome to Overdo. It is a podcast about the books you've been meaning to read. My name is Craig.

[Andrew]

My name is Andrew.

[Craig]

We are a union. Legally, we're pretty extraordinary.

[Andrew]

I'd say we're a union in a business sense. Yes, legally, but not in a. Like an organized. We can't unionize against ourselves.

[Craig]

Oh, we're not that. You were pretty bummed that that's not what this book was about when I told I.

[Andrew]

No, I did want it to be about the labor movement, but it's fine. Listen, it's fine that it's not. It's okay that it's not.

[Craig]

It has some activist elements, but it is not about organized labor.

[Andrew]

The assignment for the romance readers at home. Because this week on our book podcast, where every week one of us reads a book and the other person hears about it from the person who read it. Craig, read An Extraordinary Union by Alyssa Cole.

[Craig]

The Loyal League number one.

[Andrew]

Yes. The first book in the three book Loyal League series. The assignment for romance readers at home is to find me a romance book that's set in the labor movement.

[Craig]

Now, do you want it to be contemporary labor movement or is this like, Haymarket affair?

[Andrew]

Like, I don't, like, like, I don't know. Give me, give me some people who are like, kissing and then they knock something over and it causes the triangle shirtwaist fire or something. Like, give me, give me some historical, historical union romance.

[Craig]

Okay, sure. I bet it's out there. I bet it's out there. There is.

[Andrew]

I just would like to see. I just would like to see it.

[Craig]

There is a Pinkerton in this book. Like, this book is like, like 30 years from being that. It is about a, you know, an oppressed labor force.

[Andrew]

Right. But the union is about a man and a lady. It is also about getting together and interlocking parts. Yes.

[Craig]

It is also about the United States of America.

[Andrew]

Sure. Which, you know, an extraordinary union if ever there was one.

[Craig]

Let's. An expansive definition of the word extraordinary, let's say, as in not ordinary.

[Andrew]

Yeah, not ordinary.

[Craig]

Yeah. So, yeah, this is my first time reading an Alyssa Cole. She's a romance writer that I know, I've heard of and I know some of our listeners were excited to see her on our schedule. I have not read a romance set in the Civil War era. Cole herself, who's interested in historical romance in the afterword of this book kind of said that she wasn't sure about writing stuff set in the Civil War. We can maybe talk a bit about that after you do your coal intro. But she was inspired to write in this era and it was a well received book. We'll talk about that, too.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we're going to talk about a.

[Craig]

Lot of stuff and I'll talk about that. But you know, I read Gone with the Wind.

[Andrew]

Are we counting that as a Civil War set romance novel? It does feel like it's like the opposite of everything that Alyssa Cole's project seems to be.

[Craig]

Yeah. And I also forget about Gone with the Wind.

[Andrew]

How. How could you.

[Craig]

I've just. That's one of those things. I know it was a movie. I forget the ways in which stuff from the early 20th century is not from the era in which it is set. Like, I just kind of. Like, I forget that it is part of an early 20th century reclamation project. You know, in my brain, Margaret Mead is like, literally living the events.

[Andrew]

Yeah, no, that's.

[Craig]

And just writing them down.

[Andrew]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Craig]

That's not true.

[Andrew]

No, it's definitely not.

[Craig]

Definitely not. But that's not what this is.

[Andrew]

We are. We are mythologizing and sanitizing.

[Craig]

Yeah. This.

[Andrew]

That happened in the past. Yes.

[Craig]

This book is a. Hey, what was happening over there? Hey. Bet you didn't know about this type of historical fiction.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

Marginalized folks getting their due is the kind of. If you can say that this has a goal other than to entertain and get you a little horny, perhaps this is a horny ebook. So keep that in mind as you listen, as you share this listening experience with others.

[Andrew]

An Extraordinary Union, you say?

[Craig]

If you. We haven't decided yet if we'll need to have put the explicit tag on it. We'll find out.

[Andrew]

Find out along with you.

[Craig]

Yeah, you'll find out along the way. But, Andrew, tell me about Alyssa Cole and her journey to this book and many more.

[Andrew]

Alyssa Cole is born in 1982. She's an American author of romance and thrillers. This is what her website describes her as. Also from her website bio, quote. Her debut thriller, when no One is Watching, was the Winner of the 2021 Edgar Allan Poe Award for best Paperback original and the Strand Critics Award for best debut. Her Civil War set, Espionage, Romance and Extraordinary Union was the American Library Association's Russa best romance for 20. Rusa. I don't know.

[Craig]

Is that romance of the USA?

[Andrew]

Probably. And her contemporary royal rom com, a Princess in theory, was one of the New York Times 100 Notable Books of 2018. Sure. She's not working. She can usually be found watching anime or wrangling her pets. Another anime watcher.

[Craig]

There's more.

[Andrew]

They sneak up on you. Yeah.

[Craig]

Two of us.

[Andrew]

There's dozens. She started publishing. She started out publishing short stories and novellas. Her. I think her biggest. Like she came to everybody's attention when she wrote this Extraordinary Union. Book like this came out in 2017. It's followed up by a hope divided, also in 2017, and an unconditional freedom in 2019 and this is the Loyal League series. Yes. Other series that she's worked on include off the Grid, which is post apocalyptic and predates like it's published in started in 2015. So before the Loyal Lead stuff, the Reluctant Royals series and the Runaway Royals series and then a bunch of one shots including her recent turn to thrillers.

[Craig]

Thrillers. I did see that before she had published this she had at least three like collections of stories that had American history, elements for Love and Liberty, the Brightest Day and Daughters of a Nation. Those are about the American Revolution, Juneteenth and the Black suffragette movement, respectively. All, you know, historical romance anthologies. And it seems like kind of setting the stage for what she would set out to do here.

[Andrew]

There's a long slate piece from 2020 written by Rochelle Hampton called One Romance Novelists Fight for Diverse Love Stories. It talks a lot of interviewed Cole, talks a lot about some of the like related controversies that that Cole has been kind of party to or invited.

[Craig]

We'll talk about I'm sure which we'll.

[Andrew]

Talk about a little bit. But talking about her journey to being a romance author, this is, this is all from the Slate piece. As a kid, Cole would buy tabloid romances at supermarkets and use white out to alter the descriptions of ivory or pale skin, changing them to brown. She says my career, some level, is making sure people don't have to do that. She was 11 when she read her first romance novel, Sandra Kits the Color of Love, starring a black graphic designer. For Cole, who also aspired to be a comic book artist at the time, it was a lightning rod moment, the first time she didn't have to mentally or literally sub out the author's descriptions in order to see herself. Cole's interest in romance is also sparked by reading the blog Smart Britches Trashy Books, which started in 2005. I'm think we've touched on it a couple times throughout our show's history, the Slate piece goes on. But romance bloggers weren't her only source of inspiration. Cole found the seeds of several of her historical romances in a more unlikely place. Ta Nehisi Coates blog, which she began following around 2008 when he was writing on comic books. As Coates began to write more about history, including the Freedom Riders and black Civil War spies, Cole found herself asking two questions. One, why don't more people know about this? And two, what if there were kissing involved?

[Craig]

Yeah, she name checks Coates's work in the Atlantic in the afterword of this novel talks about being a member of what was called the Horde, which is the commenters of that era, of his blog for the Atlantic. And, yeah, definitely says that she was thinking about writing historical romance, but was deliberately avoiding stuff like the Civil War because she didn't think that she could get to the happy endings that she wanted in that setting. I think she kind of deftly arrives at one in this book that we'll talk about, and she talks. The two people, the two main characters of this novel, Elle and Malcolm, are based on real people. She says Elle is based on a woman named Mary Bowser who had been enslaved. And they say that she had an eidetic memory related to a photographic memory. And the story goes that Mary Bowser was placed in Jefferson Davis's White House, which, I guess, was he allowed to have his own White House in the Confederacy? I have no idea.

[Andrew]

I mean, the guy now's got one in Florida, so fair enough. He just. And we all just are doing whatever we want out here.

[Craig]

There is a confirmed account of her going in there to look at documents, but there are. There is a perhaps exaggerated story of her being placed there as a spy and, like, listening to conversations with her superpower memory and then, like, you know, doing spy stuff with it, which is basically what this book is about. And then there is a man. Malcolm is based on a man named Timothy Webster, who was a real Pinkerton agent, who may have been part of Pinkerton's claim to have foiled an early assassination attempt on Lincoln. Pinkerton. Where were you a few years later, my friend?

[Andrew]

I'm just saying. Yeah, like, you got to keep. You got. You got to keep doing. Where's the follow through?

[Craig]

He was patting himself on the back immediately. So I guess, you know, maybe he stopped after that happened, but he is. In the book, we have a Pinkerton agent who is posing as a Southern soldier, which is apparently what Timothy Webster did. So. Go ahead. More about Cole.

[Andrew]

Okay, so An Extraordinary Union is well received when it comes out, as I mentioned, it gets the ALA As a RUSA Best Romance Award.

[Craig]

You're just having a lot of fun with that.

[Andrew]

It is how they pronounce it, the rusa.

[Craig]

Huh.

[Andrew]

Named. These are all Wikipedia plaudits. It's named One of Vulture's 10 best romance books of 2017. Makes book lists top 10 romances of 2017. It makes publishers Weekly's list of best romance books of 2017. So everybody seems to like this book, right? Yeah, there's. There's this organization called the. The Romance Writers of America, the rwa. They for decades had done this award called the RITA Award, which is the.

[Craig]

Romance in the Action Award. Romance in the Action. I don't know. I'm just. Is it named after a person or acronym?

[Andrew]

It's definitely an acronym.

[Craig]

Romance. I thought a lot. Romance is the answer. Romance.

[Andrew]

Nice. If it was. Romance is the answer.

[Craig]

Romance is the answer is really good, actually. They can have that one for free if they want it. I know that name.

[Andrew]

For the RWA's first president, Rita Clay Estrada.

[Craig]

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[Andrew]

But it's all. It's. It's capitalized every time. So this is not, I guess, you know, if you want to go back and borrow one of our acronyms for your defunct award, you could do this. So the RWA does these RITO Awards, right?

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

And it's doing them for stuff that came out in 2017. And the list of nominees comes out and An Extraordinary Union is not on it.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

And this is. This is some summary of the. Of the controversy from a 2019 Guardian piece by Lois Becket called 50 Shades of White. The Long Fight Against Racism and Romance Novels. Basically, the. The sn. The perceived snubbing of an extraordinary union by the RWA's judges causes this big social media blow up.

[Craig]

Okay. Which usually when that happens, it is because of simmering frustrations. Yeah. A pattern of behavior.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

And so. So to get to the pattern of behavior thing. This is from the Guardian piece. One of the standout novels of 2017 had been Alyssa Cole's An Extraordinary Union, an interracial romance set during the Civil War. The book had already won a number of awards and made multiple best of the year lists. When the Read Awards finalists was. Were announced in March 2018, an extraordinary union was nowhere to be seen. A novel rated exceptional by critics. Critics had been not even deemed as noteworthy by an anonymous judging panel of Cole's fellow romance writers. The books that beat Cole as finalists in the best short Historical Romance category were all by white women, all but one. Set in 19th century Britain featuring white women who fall in love with aristocrats. The heroes were, respectively, one rogue, two dukes, two Lords, and an earl.

[Craig]

Okay, that's funny.

[Andrew]

The piece, you know, the piece puts all of this in context. Like at the. At the time, like no black author had ever won the RITA Award, I think was the. Was the case. And just talking about how black romances, when they're published at all for a long time got kind of put off on their own little like labels because there was this widespread belief in the publishing industry that the readership just wasn't there, which finally gets, you know, that's an assumption that finally gets taken apart much later by the rise of like self publishing on, on Amazon. And then you know, the few books that do come out on major labels with, with actual budgets behind them, like, do sell well. And then people, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't fix things, but it does dispel some of these long standing assumptions. This is again from the Guardian. For decades, publishers had confined many black romance authors to all black lines marketed only to black readers. Some booksellers continued to shell black romances separately from white romances on special African American shelves. Accepted industry wisdom, told black authors that putting black couples on their covers could hurt sales and should replace them with images of jewelry or lawn chairs or flowers. Other authors of color had struggled to get representation within the genre at all.

[Craig]

It is amazing that people still read books with this many nincompoops in charge of selling books.

[Andrew]

So this all happens with the RWA and the RITO Award. It's a, it's this, this big blow up. There's this attempt at a reckoning within the, the organization. So another leg of this controversy happens in, in late 2019 when Cole's friend and fellow romance author Courtney Milan, who's of Chinese descent, was suspended from the RWA after Chi Milan criticized the descriptions of Chinese characters from a 1999 romance book written by a white author named Catherine Lynn Davis. Davis and a couple of other people like, complained officially to the RWA because there were laws in the organization against disparities creating like an unsafe atmosphere and whatever. Even. Even though my understanding is at the, at the time that like social media posts by just like individual people were not supposed to be covered by this kind of organizational like rulemaking stuff.

[Craig]

Sure.

[Andrew]

So the RWA's board or ethics committee, whoever it is, who's, who's issuing these judgments, decides to suspend her membership for Milan's membership for a year. And then with, with Milan's blessing, Alyssa Cole leaks that judgment on Twitter, causes a big public outcry. The RWA canceled that year's Readers Rita Awards after hundreds of authors pulled out to, to boycott the organization and the event. So in, in early 2020, the RWA apologizes to Milan, said it would name the next year's reader award the Vivian award after the RWA's black founder. And then that was awarded one time to a book that also caused controversy because of its depiction of indigenous Americans.

[Craig]

Oh boy.

[Andrew]

And so they just kept stepping on Rakes over and over and over and over again at the RWA. In 2024, the organization filed for bankruptcy, citing an 80% decline in memberships after 2019. And so the, the, the award isn't, you know, the Rito War, the Vivian Award, whatever that was, was, was trying to turn into. Just totally sputtered out and failed and it doesn't exist anymore.

[Craig]

That's.

[Andrew]

And Cole is just like a. You don't get the. I don't think that she's set out to look, this was not her end goal. She really, really, really seems like a person who just wants to write romance novels that make people like her feel seen.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

And then, you know, and so this is what she has to say on that. And it's just really, it's, it's.

[Craig]

It.

[Andrew]

I'll just, I'll let her speak for herself. This is going back to the Slate piece. And yet, in the face of so many structural challenges, she's found that the very act of writing about black romance inevitably feels political. Quote, you literally have to become an activist to write a story about two people meeting and falling in love. She said she's fighting, in her words, the ingrained resistance to the idea of a black woman in a stable relationship that is indicative of love. Not of sex, of love. People just want to write love stories. Cole told me, her voice breaking with frustration. Oh, leaving the realities of life as a black woman on the cutting room floor is an escapism to those who experience them, it is erasure. So like she's just out here trying to make sure that people do not have to replace the word white and the word ivory with the words like black and brown in romance books to feel represented. And all of this inevitably gets cast as political and causes these and contributes to these controversies. And it's just a big mess.

[Craig]

It's a big mess. I'm looking at the Romance Writers of America website right now. They have rolled out. They had their conference in July, but then they are going to start the Diamond Heart and Golden Heart Awards this fall with presentations next year.

[Andrew]

That sounds like the next, the next Pokemon games Diamond.

[Craig]

I do like. So the Diamond Heart Awards seem pretty traditional. And then the Golden Heart Award. I don't know what the rules were for previous awards is for members who have not accepted a publishing contract or self published a work of fictional narrative prose of 20,000 words or more under, under any pen name. So it's for pre published romance writing. So I think that it's an interesting. I don't know if they've had a version of this before. But it is an interesting way to give awards to early career or maybe marginalized voices without naming what communities those come from. Just like putting a professionalism or a professional experience boundary around it. Which is interesting.

[Andrew]

I have no idea. So I bring up all this RWA and Rita stuff in the context of this book just because it was part of the discourse around it. Yeah. Yeah. And also partly because it feels so weird, like, now that Twitter does not exist as a place where this kind of conversation happens.

[Craig]

It feels a very late 2010s thing.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Like, it makes me feel like an archaeologist, just, like picking up little, like orphaned fragments of embedded tweets that don't exist anymore and like dusting them off and trying to. And trying to put myself in the shoes of like, what that, you know, what. What that controversy would have felt like. Like the week that it was happening on Twitter.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

You know, just like trying to. Trying to put yourself in the shoes of Twitter's main character for like a week in late 2019.

[Craig]

Yeah. And these types of things, like, were not. They were not unique to the book industry or, or anything like that, but they would happen within communities. And all of the communities were on Twitter. It was this weird thing. And now if you try to go look it up, you have to log into your Twitter account, if you still have one, to see the actual tweets, should they still exist.

[Andrew]

Yeah. The whole thing also reminded me of stuff that was happening at around the same time with the, like, the Hugo Awards and in like, that's the sci fi community. Just these communities kind of fighting and tearing themselves apart a little bit over, like, trying to root out their own, like, deep seated diversity issues.

[Craig]

Which is also some first term Trump stuff where a lot of folks are like, okay, we've been kind of coasting on some of this stuff and now its most malignant form is in the White House. What can we do to address it in our own home? And yeah, it caused a lot of. In a lot of places, caused a lot of upheaval, let's say. So that's.

[Andrew]

And then just the culture's response has been like, having fixed none of these problems, we are going to do a backlash. So big.

[Craig]

Could God do a backlash?

[Andrew]

It feels like we're living in a different universe.

[Craig]

Yeah. Yeah. It's strange. And then she moved into thriller writing. I know in some, to some extent in response to. I know she name checked, like the George Floyd protests and stuff for some of her thriller novels. And she's certainly just somebody who is very aware of the political environments in which she is writing, even as she, you know, maybe bemoans how political she has to be to be successful. So yeah, let's take a quick break, Andrew, and then I will tell you about this extraordinary union, which is an extraordinary union.

[Andrew]

Craig, this podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Let's talk about extraordinary unions for a second. Your ideas and Squarespace's incredible website making technology.

[Craig]

Sure. I was going to say me and a website.

[Andrew]

You and a website also would be an extraordinary union. Depending on what the website was about.

[Craig]

I would probably need Squarespace's help to make sure it was a good one.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I mean, listen, your ideas could be wicked busted. But the technology and present this is my ideas. But the technology and the execution provided by Squarespace would make your busted ideas look as good as they possibly could look.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Squarespace, as you know, Craig, is the website that helps you make websites. They give you beautiful templates, easy to use, drag and drop tools, 24. 7 customer support stuff that you need to make a website with.

[Craig]

3 in the morning, me wondering why my website is busted.

[Andrew]

Yeah, but you don't have to like, you don't have to open up notepad and type in your. Your table HTML. Like you don't need to do any of that stuff.

[Craig]

I don't want to do that.

[Andrew]

Your cascading style sheets? No thank you.

[Craig]

What are those?

[Andrew]

You don't need to know because of Squarespace. Let me tell you some of the other stuff I like about Squarespace. They have cutting edge design, Craig. Ooh, watch your fingers. With Squarespace's collection of cutting edge design tools, anyone can build a bespoke online presence that perfectly fits their brand or business. Squarespace offers a complete library of professionally designed and award winning website templates with options for every use and category. No matter where you start. Your website is flexible to what you need with intuitive drag and drop editing, beautiful styling options, unrivaled visual design effects, and more ways to list what you offer. No experience required, Craig.

[Craig]

Okay, I don't have any.

[Andrew]

Good. Because you don't need it.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

Any experience you would have would be wasted on Squarespace and they're cutting edge design tools. So it's good that you didn't develop any. Fundraise directly on your website and grow your impact with built in donation tools. Create a professional on brand website that makes it easy to accept one time or recurring contributions and engage supporters. With built in email campaigns and marketing tools, you can connect with your community and inspire more people to support your cause. And Craig, every dream, as you know, needs a domain. Here's an extraordinary union. An IP address and a domain. Squarespace Domains makes it easy to find the best name for your business at one fair, all inclusive price, no hidden fees or add ons required. Every Squarespace domain comes with advanced privacy and security tools included to ensure your domain remains online and protected. Don't wait to claim your name. Invest in your dream domain today. Craig. Go to squarespace.com for a free trial if you. If any of this stuff sounds good to you, and I know it does.

[Craig]

It does.

[Andrew]

When you're ready to Launch, go to squarespace.com overdue to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Again, that's squarespace.com overdue to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain.

[Craig]

Andrew, what's your favorite thing about the Civil War? Just trying to. Just trying to like, set the stage.

[Andrew]

Strange question. Probably emancipation would have to be like. Would be pretty high on the list.

[Craig]

Pretty. Pretty good. Pretty up there.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

How do you feel about blockades?

[Andrew]

Depends on what is being blockaded from the Rebs. By what?

[Craig]

Yeah, we're blockading the Rebs.

[Andrew]

Why are we doing that?

[Craig]

Because they're the Southerners. They're the rebels.

[Andrew]

Okay. They're. Oh, yes, they're the Rebs, Johnny.

[Craig]

Rebs. You know, we're saying you can't have stuff.

[Andrew]

Yeah. No blockade. Those guys.

[Craig]

Okay, great. Just making sure that you're on board with emancipation and blockades because those are two key elements of an extraordinary union. By listening.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I've been on the record about. About being pro emancipation, but if I. But if I. If I haven't been, allow me to get on the record now.

[Craig]

Okay. All right, great. Thank. This book is set in 1862, I believe. There's a little opening gambit set in 1861 at the beginning of the war where our heroine, Elle Burns. Ellen Burns, She's a black woman working for something called the Loyal League. They refer to themselves as friends of Abe, which struck me as kind of funny. That's great. There is like a fun. Like, this is fun. It's horny. It's fun. And yet is plenty serious where it needs to be.

[Andrew]

Do you think Friends of Abe go around like wearing big like stovepipe? Yeah. They swear so they can identify each other in public.

[Craig]

They swear an oath to the four Ls. Loyalty, Legacy, Life and Lincoln, you know? Okay, sure. And so the book opens with Elle doing this little, like, you know, opening mission. She's in Baltimore. She has to deliver a message to a trusted Union soldier coming off a train. There are secessionists in Baltimore acting like nutjobs as they do. I will say I am not somebody, though. I am a dad. I am not a, you know, stereotypical late 20th century dad who is just steeped in the Civil War. I don't just march around Gettysburg for fun. I'm not watching the Ken Burns documentary on loop. Not reading.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I feel like there's a certain. There's a genre of dad who just has the History Channel on so that you can have black and white footage of tanks in World War II on.

[Craig]

Your TV all the time. Not a military dad. Military history dad. But so. So I did find, like, reading this. I was like, oh, this is kind of interesting. I hadn't really considered that there would be secessionists in Baltimore who might be keen to kill President Lincoln. Like, of course there were. Duh. But I hadn't thought about it, you know?

[Andrew]

You know, I wonder, thinking about that a little more, I do wonder if maybe it's our fault that people forgot that Nazis and fascism were bad. I do think, because we stopped. We. We as dads, drop the ball. Stopped watching the History Channel all the time.

[Craig]

Well, no, I think the History Channel should have stopped talking about aliens and missing Hitler and mermaids. And then maybe I would have and.

[Andrew]

Also got on TikTok or something.

[Craig]

Also probably that.

[Andrew]

What if they.

[Craig]

It's probably all mermaids all the time. So she has to deliver this message. There's a fracas at the train station, and people are throwing bricks.

[Andrew]

That's my Panic at the Disco cover band.

[Craig]

She is. She's struck by a brick at one point, but is saved by someone that she, you know, maybe thought was her enemy. And then we move on. And you're like, oh, okay, okay. And then next we see her placed in a household in Richmond, Virginia, where she is posing as a mute slave working in the home of Senator Caffrey McCaffrey. I think it's Caffrey, a Southern Senate, a Confederate senator in Richmond, Virginia, which is under blockade. His family's doing okay despite the blockade.

[Andrew]

And at this point, this is a senator in the Confederate Senate. Okay, great.

[Craig]

He's, you know, it's 1862 now. He's got a bratty daughter, a, you know, demanding wife. He is involved in rebel activity. And she is. Now she is. Elle is being, like, loaned to the family that her cover story is that she is somebody else's slave, but because they are down someone in their household, they hire in her. I suppose that's like a whole other little cottage industry that the book talks about.

[Andrew]

Mm.

[Craig]

And she can't talk, purportedly, so she gets to just be there and gather a lot of information and then send it back north via the grocer in the grocer in town. McTavish, the drunk grocer. She does have a friend named Timothy who is also in the loyal league. And he knows that she can talk, but she's not allowed to. And so he does kind of rib her now and again. It's very fun of Timothy.

[Andrew]

Yeah. That's funny. You gotta find. I assume in this book that it's gotta, like, find its levity. Where it can, like. And this goes for the romantic elements, too, is. I'm just curious.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

Cause it sounded like something that she was. She was really concerned about trying to do is, like, how do you do a romance book with happily ever after in the context of, like, black people living through the Civil War?

[Craig]

Yes. And how do you also, like, have it be a film fun book?

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

Seems to be a concern of her. So, like, little things, like, she knows she can't talk, Timothy knows she can't talk, and Timothy can give her guff. And it's two characters that we are supposed to, like, kind of ribbing each other. Like, that is. That is a lower. Like, lower on the ladder in terms of, like, the types of fun that Cole is having. You know, that's. That's in there.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

We'll get to one or two others that I think are more exemplary. The thing you need to know about Elle is that she does have an eidetic or photographic memory. Those are not one and the same. I was reading a little bit about them. The main thing is that she can basically remember anything she has ever seen, heard, or read. Mostly heard or read. Is the main thing.

[Andrew]

People with photographing. Like, if you were to believe photographic.

[Craig]

Memories might not exist. But that's a separate answer.

[Andrew]

Well, if I would. But if you were to believe fiction, it would be like 20% of the populace has a photographic memory. You just, like. You just have so many protagonists who have that. And if you. If you're only talking about, like, protagonists on procedural crime shows, it goes up to, like, 40%.

[Craig]

It does. You're right. No, it's true. But that is her, like, superpower. I do think that Cole gets some good mileage out of it, aside from it being, like, obviously a useful plot. Device as part of El's backstory. She was basically kind of shown around as a bit of a freak show. Like, look at this young woman. And she's black. And so we expect her to not have these capabilities, you know, us white Southerners or just white people in general. And she can and memorize these poems, and isn't that hilarious? And also, when she, you know, she is somebody who goes off to Liberia, which is apparently a thing that Mary Bowser, who she is based on, did do as well and did not find it satisfactory, she wanted to go back to the States and, you know, advance the cause of freedom in her home country. And she's like, I have this gift. It's a bit of a curse as well, but I could use it. I've heard of people, you know, I've heard of enslaved folks and other people using, you know, how they funnel information. I could probably do that. I should help. Okay. The extra wrinkle that I think Cole finds here is there are moments in the book where Elle, you know, is. Is vulnerable and shares that she's concerned about needing to be perfect in relation to her perfect memory. Like, she is an exemplar of, you know, black abolitionists working as spies, and she can never make a mistake. And here she also has this, like, kind of superpower that doesn't make mistakes. But she could. At one point in the book, some rebel, some Union soldiers, you know, kind of off screen, are either killed or captured because of information that she passed along. And she's, like, really upset about it because she made a mistake. It was bad intel, or it was purposefully, you know, bad intel. And she had no way to know, but she has perfect recall. And now she has, like, made a mistake. And, like, she feels the pressure of being kind of, as we might say it now, out of the context of the Civil War, like a model minority kind of pressure. Like, that's. That's kind of the words that come out of her mouth in the novel.

[Andrew]

And is that about, like, getting people to believe that she has the photographic memory and, like, take her seriously, or is that not.

[Craig]

No, it's almost a little more like, with great power comes great responsibility. I see kind of stuff and. But I think reading it as somebody in the 21st century, I also see the things that maybe Cole has ever faced as being, like, a standout voice who is also black and in a, you know, in an industry that maybe doesn't. That isn't very of, you know, people of color. So I don't know. I Think it is an interesting little device that has a somewhat dubious historical record that Cole gets a lot out of. The situation is complicated because we meet a man named Malcolm McCall.

[Andrew]

That's a good name.

[Craig]

He is a Scottish man who has a 22 in charisma. I would say he has very high charisma score.

[Andrew]

But is he wearing like really. Is he wearing really sick gloves or something that gives him charisma?

[Craig]

A rebel army uniform when she first meets him.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

So she presumes that he is a soldier in the Confederate Army. When he arrives at the senator's house, he's very charming and he does look into her eyes in a way that he like seems to see her as a person as opposed to like a mute slave to be ignored. And he's very struck by her beauty.

[Andrew]

And that's. That's another thing about fiction. I'm going to come over to your house and just like look at you in a bunch of different ways and see how much you can read from my glances. Because I bet, I bet I could not communicate. Maybe that's just me though. Like, maybe, maybe me not being able to communicate those kind of nuanced things with my eyes alone is just because I'm not talented enough at it.

[Craig]

I think it is fun that you're kind of zeroing in on just tropes of telling stories because I think this is enough. This is a very effective novel. I had a great read. It is a well paced, both romance and like little historical plot thing that happens.

[Andrew]

Yeah. That was. The mixture of those two things was the. Was the topic of a lot of reviews from websites that I'm not. That I'm not gonna bring up. But if you're imagining like a scale.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

With like a bad reviews on one end and like great reviews on the other end. The reviews that I'm talking about are like right down, right down the middle.

[Craig]

Okay, sure, we talk about those. There were a number. It would be the number in between two other numbers, like right in the middle of those numbers. Okay.

[Andrew]

Yeah, right in between. Yeah.

[Craig]

And the book is. I'm going to talk about Malcolm a little bit more in a second. But like the book is a pretty good blend of romance. Like beats, you know, like they're going to. They're going to kiss, they're going to get a little handsy. They're going to, you know, have some things that almost are sex. They're gonna have a little bit of a falling out based on some misconceptions about how people were feeling or Somebody acted a little too rashly, and then they're gonna come back together and realize that they do really love each other and care about each other. Just as the plot, the historical fiction plot kind of reaches its most, you know, tense, and things are out of control. Like, when their romance becomes the tightest that it does in the book, they are in the least amount of control over their missions, you know?

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

And that stuff works pretty effortlessly, such that it's easy to just keep reading. The book does alternate between their perspectives. That's a. That's a common structure that I think we've encountered before, especially when it is like. Like a romance novel about two characters. It's just gonna bop between the two of them chapter after chapter. It never does the thing where you are like, let's get his. Let's really roll back time and get his or her perspective. You'll usually get a few paragraphs at the front that are like, here's what I was thinking, but now we're doing this other thing.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

It almost always moves the plot forward, but, no, he has a 22 in charisma. He can do this thing where he can, like, say whatever people want to hear.

[Andrew]

For the people at home who don't do D and D or Baldur's Gate or other D and d related things, 22 is very high.

[Craig]

18 is, like, what you can choose to have at the beginning, maybe, and 22 is an order of magnitude better.

[Andrew]

22 is an amount of charisma you can't have unless you intentionally decide, I'm gonna have really high charisma.

[Craig]

And you probably need special items to accomplish it also. Mm. And he is. Yeah, he's a. Scott. His family was displaced by the British.

[Andrew]

You said his name was Malcolm.

[Craig]

That's offensive to my people. Andrew. His family was displaced by the Brits. Later in the book, you learn the tragic tale of his dad's death by suicide after the Brits attacked his mom. And so he is somebody who, you know, they. They moved to the States. He is fighting for the north because he does not. He sees a version of the oppression his people have faced with what black people are facing in the South.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

Though the thing that Cole writes for him over the course of the book is kind of an awareness of when does he actually know the plight of black people in America, or is he just a white savior? And I'm sure that's a thing that people were concerned about in the era of the Civil War as well. It is hard to read it by a 21st century author, as a 21st century reader and not, like, immediately make all of the white ally, white savior connections. I think I'm supposed to. As a reader, I think I am supposed to make those connections.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And so there is this, like, little. That is the heavy version of the novel where it's like, is this 21st century language in this historical fiction, which is fair that you can do that. The funny version of that is when she is. Has to be disguised as a man for one mission that they're on, and he helps her, like, bind her chest and refers to her as, like, the sexiest mummy he's ever seen. And I. And I just had a moment where I was like, do they know about mummies in 1860, 62. Like, do they know what I'm. When they say mummy, what do they mean? Do they.

[Andrew]

Do they know about. And more importantly, do they know about mommies?

[Craig]

I think they know about mommies. I just think, like, in my brain, Egyptology as a Western enterprise isn't until, like, the early 1900s. I did, obviously, we. Mummies have existed for a long time.

[Andrew]

Mummies have existed for a long time.

[Craig]

I just.

[Andrew]

I'm just gonna look up some stuff about mummies.

[Craig]

Okay. It was just like a funny turn of. I'm sure it's fine. They knew about the most attractive mummy to walk the streets of Richmond. He called her. And I just, like, in my brain, this man has seen a Universal Studios monster movie when he says that.

[Andrew]

And I. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not sure. I'm not sure you would. So the Wikipedia article for Mummy does have one of the better subheadings that I've seen on a Wikipedia article in a long time. History of mummy Studies. And it says, while interest in the study of mummies dates back as far as Ptolemaic Greece, most structured scientific study began at the beginning of the 20th century. So he could be sort of casually interested in a mummy.

[Craig]

Yeah. Yes.

[Andrew]

But I think it would be equally like. I don't know. I. I hear what you're saying about it being weird.

[Craig]

It just pulled my ear in a way that was fun. Like, I think that it is Cole having fun in the same way when late in the book after another, after the end of the same mission, where Elle is wounded and he is, like, stitching her up and she. And she kind of wants to remedy the situation with some lovemaking and he. And he says something to the effect of, well, I have wanted to play doctor with you, so I'd be a fool not to jump at this opportunity. And it. I don't know a way to read that. That is not him, you know, kind of, you know, flirting with her in that moment. Obviously, they've already had sex at this point, so, like, it's not. It is just fun foreplay talk, I guess.

[Andrew]

Sure. I got. I do. I do. Gotta be, like, playing. Playing doctor.

[Craig]

I don't like that phrase personally.

[Andrew]

Hey, baby, I'm. Let's play doctor. I brought my leeches.

[Craig]

Like, yeah, I'm here. Let' take off your bodice. It's time to do some cupping.

[Andrew]

Like, time. It's time for me to saw off those gangrenous limbs, baby.

[Craig]

Hey, baby, it's time to balance your humors. It's just fun. Like, I think Cole is having fun. It's just silly. In the same way that I laughed when I saw. When a character refers to him as Jeff Davis, as opposed to this.

[Andrew]

I mean, it's to his person, his friends. Jeff to his friends, I assume Jim Davis's distant cousin.

[Craig]

That's. That's. That's libel. I shouldn't say that.

[Andrew]

Yeah, don't say that about Jim Davis.

[Craig]

But anyway, wow. We're jumping all over the place. So Malcolm's whole deal is he's very charismatic. It makes him a good spy. He can say the exact thing that somebody wants to hear in that moment. And he has, like, a sense for when the dice roll has gone his way. He has a little thing in his brain where he goes, gotcha. When, like, he says something. And whatever character he's trying to persuade or, you know, convince that he's a good guy believes him. He can perceive that and then act on it. The tension is, of course, that he's a big, brawny white man in a, you know, Southern soldier's uniform. Elle is a black woman, you know, posing as a slave. And even if she is attracted to him, which she is, she doesn't know if she can trust him fully. Like, one of the first things that happens in the book is she goes to, you know, to what she thinks is like a package rendezvous, like a delivery of information. And it's just a meeting with him. And she's like, well, I thought he was a Southern soldier. And now I'm confused. And he knows I can talk now, and I don't know if I can trust him. Because if his whole deal is that he's very good at making people believe what he's saying, how can I believe what he's saying? That is kind of the thing she wrestles with until she is fully in love with him. And so what I think Cole does a pretty good job of throughout the book is just. Just be really aware of the power dynamic between the two of them where Malcolm is attracted to how intelligent and headstrong and capable El is. Elle cannot help but be, you know, moved by how attracted she is to Malcolm and how charismatic he is. But she's very wary of the soft power he wields in every situation. And he is some, you know, a big old white man who likes to think that he is not wielding that power. And she knows that at the exact moment that he would like to, she could do. She could barely stop him, you know, is kind of the concern.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

So the historical fiction plot is that people in Richmond, the Southerners, are really kind of wasting away under the blockade and they're planning to do something about it. And so through a series of both romantic and spy based entanglements between our two main characters, we learn that they are planning to resurrect a sunken Union ironclad gunboat.

[Andrew]

Ooh, you gotta get those ironclad boys.

[Craig]

And she's going to. The south is going to use it to break the blockade, specifically around Richmond, at least among others, because the Union doesn't have enough other ironclads in the fleet. And this could potentially tip the scales of the war.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

And so this is going to, you know, there's a party later in the night. The book is pretty well structured because it's like, okay, they have a couple meetings at the grocer's where they're sending information and two of those meetings turn into kissing, hugging and. Or sex. And then after the scene where he help, he. He provides comfort to her.

[Andrew]

I bet he does.

[Craig]

He does. And he, you know, helps her feel very good. They do not have sex. Sex, but he helps her feel very good. And.

[Andrew]

Okay, I'm not. We're not gonna dig in. We're not gonna dig into.

[Craig]

Well, whether or not you want me to slap the big old. The big red E on this episode.

[Andrew]

No, no, no, we don't. We don't need to put the E.

[Craig]

But it is so good that her brain starts to work and she. This is a direct quote. Ironclad. She whispered excitedly. Excuse me? Ironclad. She whispered excitedly. Elle felt a rush nearly as good as the climax she just experienced as the random information formed into unified theory. Pardon? Malcolm asked. He adjusted the tinted groin of his pants. I'm not familiar with that particular euphemism, but I'm not Opposed to it. Oh, that's the fun that Cole is having. Like Malcolm in particular gets to have little one liners now and again where he. He gets to joke about their situation. So she realizes that there's an ironclad, a Bruin and there's going to be. There's going to be a like kind of. I don't know if it's a New Year's party or some sort of party that the senator is throwing. And they realize that the. One of the shipbuilders is going to be there. So how can they gather information? There's also the. The senator's daughter is like somebody that Malcolm has been kind of, you know, working as a spy. There is like a little bit of the thing from the Americans where like El sees him interacting with Susie and gets like a little jealous, you know.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Even though she knows or she thinks she knows that he doesn't care for her kind of thing. There's a bit where he sees her interacting with the shipbuilders slave guy, Ben, I think, and he gets like kind of jealous and frustrated and huffs off. And that's. That is like the big fight that they have before they have sex for the first time where she is like, that was totally not cool that you like treated me that way when I was just like interacting with another person of my social cast that you don't have access to that is subjugated in the society. So like chill out. And. Yeah. So like, you know, they come together and they are in love. Ish. I suppose they discover that, you know, they come to a full, you know, romantic love by the end of the novel and they have to save each other. A couple of times she gets attacked by slavers. He has to save her. She has to save him. During the final scene of the party where Rufus. I love when there's a guy who stinks who's not a big part of the novel, but he is there because he's a suitor to the senator's daughter who is also in the Confederate Army.

[Andrew]

The Goodreads reviews kept going on and on about how much they all hated somebody named Susie. Who are they talking about?

[Craig]

That's the senator's daughter.

[Andrew]

That's the senator's daughter.

[Craig]

Her.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

Everybody hates Susie and you're meant to hate her. She's awful.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

She's terrible to Elle. She's terrible to everybody else who works in the house. She's obnoxious to Malcolm, but Malcolm has to spend time with her. There's one scene where Susie's mom is being mean to her. And I did make a note. I was like, we trying to humanize Susie here. I don't like Susie. I don't want this to happen.

[Andrew]

Yeah, don't do it.

[Craig]

And Rufus, who wants Susie, is mad that Malcolm exists. And then the party degrades. El has gotten the information by being in the room with the shipbuilder. Unbeknownst to him, Malcolm doesn't know that that's happening. He's in a room. He gets pulled in a room with Susie. She tries to make a move on him. He refuses her, and she cries rape. And then Rufus is like, hey, I think you're a spy. And they chain him up in the basement and leave him for dead. When a house fire starts because El and a few other folks who are enslaved in the house are gonna make an escape.

[Andrew]

Mm.

[Craig]

And then they do save him, and they get away. There is this, like, scene where. Okay, I found this interesting. They're escaping from. They've got the information on the ironclad.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

They are escaping from this house fire of the senator's house. Theoretically, we can leave those people behind. They are planning to meet up with a. A black man who has commandeered and taken his master ship that he was paid or, you know, told to fix. And then, you know, takes. And he's gonna take it to the Union army and be like, hey, it's me and a bunch of other black folk. We have this boat. Like, you know, we want to be part of the army. We're right. Help us be free. And on their way to that boat, they are waylaid by the remaining alive slaver from the group of slavers who tried to steal El earlier in the book. She. She had a former. A friend who wanted to be more than a friend that she rejected earlier in her life. Daniel. And he was captured once the Fugitive Slave act passed.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

He does get freed in the background of the novel. That's like, a whole thing. But this is kind of a reflection of that. There's just roving bands of awful men who are like, what if we just, you know, captured black people and sold the them even further south? He is kind of a stand in for just the concept of slavery, I think, at the end of the novel where he is there to be like, I'm going to get revenge and take this woman. I can't believe you killed my friends. They had families. And Malcolm was like, yeah, but they wanted to enslave people. That's strange. And he does roll really High on his persuasion check with this man and, like, convinces him that he's going to pay him money, and the guy runs away. I was just struck by the. Like, let's boil down slavery to this downtrodden man as kind of a plot device. And then, of course, they make it to the boat because Malcolm is wearing a rebel army uniform. As soon as he makes it onto the boat, somebody shoots him in error, thinking that he is boarding the boat as an attack, which is part of the, you know, tension of the end of the novel. Ultimately, of course, he's okay. He's not gonna die. He's Malcolm McCall. He's not gonna die.

[Andrew]

You can't die with a name like Malcolm McCall. No, I just gotta say.

[Craig]

And the. The kind of happy ending that we get after this boat is secured and all sorts of things is a little bit of a tiny time skip where Malcolm is introducing her to his family and it is, you know, being well received. I don't remember if they get, like, married married. They do get, like, captain of the boat married, us on the boat. And his family seems okay with it, but his brother, one of his brothers has been kidnapped by Southerners. And so, like, that's gonna set up another novel, I'm sure. So it is not. It reads as a, barring other events, happily ever after, but it is at least a happy ending for now for the two of them. Okay.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's. That's a. That's a. That's the. The halfway between, like, quote, realistic and happily ever after that you get to in a romance book.

[Craig]

Yeah, And I think that's. That's her trying to figure out how you do that. For a character like Elle, who is very aware of the dynamic between her and Malcolm, that at any point in time this could go south for her. Unless his love is true. And even still, are they in control of that as two people vis a vis society? Probably not.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Right. And so she doesn't over promise what they're going to, because she doesn't even. She's not interested to jump past the Civil War. It's not like she does a. Like, I was wondering, was she gonna do, like, how much of a jump was she gonna do? Because that is a way to deliver your happy ever after is to, like, do a little bit of a time skip.

[Andrew]

Well, and it's. It's doing that in this context is. Is even more complicated because, like, somewhat famously, the Civil War and emancipation did not, like, end no oppression of black people. And I think that's America she know South. Yeah, I'm aware. I'm aware that she knows that. It's just like there's no. There's no time jump that you can do that is big enough that. Yeah, she is making a lot guarantee like kind of a gauzy, everything's guaranteed romance novel ending. You know what I mean?

[Craig]

She is leaning a lot on Malcolm as a foreigner to the states as a justification or not justification, but as an explanation for why he is maybe more believable as a white guy who will not default into white supremacy in the same way that even a like northern abolitionist who does not treat black people well might.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And also, you know, he's. He's hot blooded.

[Craig]

Check it and see. You're right. Yeah. It. Wow.

[Andrew]

You can't say. You can't just say the word foreigner to me.

[Craig]

No. When they're. When they do do this like undercover bit where she is dressed basically as his slave. As his slave boy. And she is a little concerned about how that might go between the two of them. Malcolm says, I'm aware that I have the upper hand in every way save one. But don't think mistreating you would be easy for me. Don't think it doesn't chip away at my soul every time I have to say and do terrible things to gain the enemy's trust. I've done a lot of acting and I'm good at it. But no amount of patriotism will make having to disrespect you easy for me. Understand. So he is constantly kind of fighting to convince her and maybe convince himself. I'm not sure that he is not the worst of what white people have to offer in this conflict.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Be. It sounds like it's not hard to not be the worst.

[Craig]

There is that. But she is obviously concerned for her safety at every step of the way.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Craig]

And. And generally I. I find her a very compelling character. I think I've maybe given her a little short shrift to convey the plot of the book.

[Andrew]

Yeah, sure.

[Craig]

But I really like her as somebody who is kind of just aware of where she fits. That that's probably something that is coming through from Cole's voice is just a keen awareness of how she fits into the larger narratives of the Civil War. That I don't know if an individual person in 1862 would know this. The type of stuff that she knows in that way. But she. There's only one bit where she is like really keen to do some sex with Malcolm and is like, I want to do this in Case something happens that felt a little out of character as I was reading it because I really appreciated how guarded she was about their relationship the whole time. That when she finally is like, I think we should roll around in the hay a little bit just in case things break bad. It did stand out to me and maybe it's supposed to, but let me assume the best and it is supposed to stand out to me. I'm not sure.

[Andrew]

Well, yeah. And like, maybe, you know, maybe the thing that breaks bad is him and something that. Something that he does.

[Craig]

You've. You're holding.

[Andrew]

I would like to. I would like. I would like to bone down with you while I think you're a good person. Seems to be her. Oh, what she is doing. I'm not talking about you.

[Craig]

I was confused because I thought you were going to tell me that you wanted to play guitar and then you said something else.

[Andrew]

Sure. No, I was. I was continuing the thought that we had. I just grabbed. I grabbed my guitar because. Because I feel like it's. I mean, do you have other stuff.

[Craig]

That you desperately want to hit or. Enough. We're good.

[Andrew]

So I got some reviews from a website, a little website called Goodreads that we like to talk about sometimes. And Goodreads reviewers can rate books on a five star scale. Some of them give the books three stars, which I think make some of the opinions pretty interesting.

[Craig]

This is big coffee shop energy to this intro. You are at an open mic right now, like, telling me a little bit about the next song.

[Andrew]

Just a little bit of. Just a little bit about this. I wrote this song when I was thinking about people who had mixed reactions to books. It's called three star Goodreads review.

[Craig]

Okay, tell me more. What do you. What's happening over there?

[Andrew]

I'm just. I'm just riffing a little bit.

[Craig]

Okay, sure.

[Andrew]

People, mostly people who gave this three stars mostly seemed to think they had come to the historical fiction store and instead found themselves in the romance aisle.

[Craig]

Oh, interesting. Sure.

[Andrew]

Sue says three stars. Sue says maybe even a 3.5. It was really well written and the story was solid and good. The characters were well developed. I just couldn't really get into the romance part. I kept rolling my eyes when they were talking about their attraction to each other, especially when they were meeting each other for the first time. I just don't think a love at first sight scenario is for me. So a personal opinion aside, the book was fun and was interesting. When Elle and Malcolm were working, I wanted more of that. I also really liked how this was an interracial. An interracial relationship during the Civil War.

[Craig]

Respond to the love at first sight part because I don't think I talked about that enough.

[Andrew]

Okay. Yes, please, please do.

[Craig]

They do. Yeah. Their connection happens in the Caffrey household. When he first shows up there as a like his whole cover story is that he likes, like did some stuff as a Southerner in the war in the worries kind of hot shot. And they. They know him in Baltimore and now he's moved a little further south to do more secessionist nonsense. And the senator is very excited to have him. And it is a like she. I can't remember if the. Their first look is like right after she has like bumped into and knocked over Susie and Susie falls on her back like a cockroach like wiggling her legs in the. Something like that also happens. And Malcolm does a little kind of like mental dance to assure Elle that he's going to protect her, but also assure Susie that he thinks that black people are terrible. Like he kind of has to do that little shuffle step and they are both kind of like, wow, that person is hot. And what do I do about that? The other thing complicating there meet cute, for lack of a better word is he was in Baltimore when she got hit by a brick.

[Andrew]

Oh.

[Craig]

And is the person who saved her.

[Andrew]

Even though I think I figured that was.

[Craig]

I figured even though he was posing as a dock worker who had called her a hussy and she took offense.

[Andrew]

Language. Yeah.

[Craig]

And so. And. But also their names are Ellen and Malcolm, which as Malcolm recounts is like some part of the lady of the Lake or some sort of Scottish thing. So like maybe they're fated to be together. So there's like that. That is just a thing. I could see how someone who was interested in historical fiction, spy, Civil War spy stuff was like, I don't want to meet cute in this story. Like, I get it. I don't want a. I don't want.

[Andrew]

To involve in this story. It's a strange context for a meet cute. Which is. Which is I think attention that Alyssa Cole is like intentionally playing.

[Craig]

It's a tension that the characters are very aware of too. And she's get. I. I think she does her best to let El be like, I don't know about any of this. Right.

[Andrew]

Rachel has a three star review that's in the same vein. I really don't have much to say about this book except I wish it had been historical fiction slash spy thriller without the romance. I loved reading about spies during the Civil War. And knowing most of these characters were based on real people was really cool. But the romance was very lackluster. It brought down the book. Honestly. This. One of the tags on this review is three stars. Ain't the devil one of those people advocating. I think for using the full scale?

[Craig]

People watch. I love 3 star. Reviewers are like. We deserve better. Representation.

[Andrew]

Is fine. Actually.

[Craig]

There is. What does that make me think of?

[Andrew]

I don't know.

[Craig]

The. It's just. Oh. There was a bit in their arc as a romance that I was like. Huh. And it wasn't the bit where they were rolling around in the hay. And Elle was a little more forward than she'd been. Then after Malcolm has his kind of dust up over Elle spending some time with Ben. Another enslaved person. He's just in her apartment in her room that she's renting. Malcolm just is there when she comes home. Like. And that is. That is the precursor to them having sex the first time is he has come into her little abode unannounced. Just flexing the fact that he is, you know. A white guy that can just probably talk his way into that room or whatever.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

I didn't care for that. And no one ever talks about it after it happens. I thought that was a bad look by him. Anyway. Do you have any more?

[Andrew]

But I have one last one. And this is just about. You know. Even readers with critiques still appreciated the representation. Still kind of appreciated what. What Cole was. Was explicitly trying to do when she became a black woman. Like writing romance books. This is from Scarletism. Who from her avatar. And the tags. I gather to be a black woman. I am tired of reading historical romances knowing someone like me couldn't have a happy ending story. This tried to do just that. And that makes me happy. I was really apprehensive about this story initially because I wasn't sure I could stomach it. But this was actually done in a palatable way. I was not a fan of the writing style. Especially not in the beginning. But it got better. I wish there was more focus on the spy stuff and that the guy would stop talking about how much he liked her. It kind of got a bit ridiculous with some changes. I would have really enjoyed this story. But nonetheless I still enjoyed it. Thanks to the author for doing this.

[Craig]

He really finds her attractive and interesting. I think Cole is doing that to help us know that he's a. He's on the level.

[Andrew]

That his intentions are pure.

[Craig]

Yeah. Yeah. And she has to go to somewhat extreme lengths to drive that home.

[Andrew]

Because I think you would. He would need to go to somewhat extreme lengths, like in the con, like, for her to feel that way. Okay, I get it.

[Craig]

I get that he expresses that to her in a way that is pretty effusive and he's pretty effusive in his own head to us as a. As a, you know, POV character. But I think that is to really make sure that we are like never questioning his intentions or else the novel doesn't quite. From a Cole's perspective, the novel probably doesn't work if we are ever questioning him. Truly, we're meant to understand. Ls perspective as someone who would be worried about him. But I think the novel envisions a world in which we can believe that this man is okay, which is not. I understand if people don't. Are like, I don't believe that a man could be okay. You can read novels and not be that way. That's fine. Yeah.

[Andrew]

I just thought. I thought these reviews were interesting because actually, good pulls. The thing that seems the most likely is just, you know, I read the, like the book jacket of this and I. And I thought that it would be heavier on the spy stuff and lighter on the romance. And that's not how it was. But I also wonder, you know, what have people internalized about who can be the protagonist of a romance book? And what does it say, you know, you come to a book that's set in the Civil War from the perspective of a black woman and you're like, well, this, this has to be. This has to be heavy and it has to be serious and it has to be about like highlighting some historical thing that I, that. That I, the reader, have never heard about before. And then what? Yes, but. But then what's all this, you know, all this, all this loopy, lightweight, happily for now romance stuff doing in here? I don't know. Like, it's. It's just. It's interesting to chew on.

[Craig]

Yep. I think a. A novel more focused. Let's not say more a novel less focused on the romance would not in the middle of it, kind of to do two back to back. Like we're in the. The grocer's back room, which is where we send messages. And there are almost two back to back scenes. There's kind of like a little scene in between. But the main thing is that those union soldiers have gotten either killed or captured in between the two of them. And it's a way for them to hash out who is and is not a good you know, kind of union spy between each other. And I think if this were a spy thriller first rather than a romance first, maybe we would instead go on that mission a little bit or we would have more of a scene about the gathering of that information. And instead it is about. That is used to advance their relationship rather than to advance the plot of the Civil War.

[Andrew]

And I mean, you could have a spy book that still had like a. I don't know, like some kind of like James Bond movie moment where they. Like where James Bond and the hot lady ride off on the speedboat at the end of the movie or whatever.

[Craig]

No, it is truly structured like a romance novel. Like it is. They have their meeting, they have their scenes where they feel things about each other but are not sure about it. They learn things about each other, their backstory after those scenes. And then there are scenes where they are like each jealous of the other person for some reason and act out because of it. Then they are very together just as the non romance plot reaches a climax that could kind of tear them apart. And so like, if what you wanted is just a straightforward thriller about an ironclad boat, like, you're not gonna get that. The structure and pacing of the book is romance through and through. I did not find that to be a bad thing.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

So.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I did. I mean, it's possible that this, this viewpoint is represented in the 420something, three star reviews of this book on Goodread Reads, but I didn't find a lot of people, and maybe, you know, maybe because they were on like four and five star land or whatever who were like. I came to this because I knew it was a romance and was sad.

[Craig]

It was about spies.

[Andrew]

Well, well, no, And I, I came to it because it was a romance. And then I found the stuff happening in between the romance to be really interesting. Like we have read romance books where the stuff in between the romance is stupid and horrible and.

[Craig]

No, this is very poetry book that we hate. If, if anything, this does not surprise me. If anything, the. Not. The characters that are not Elle and Malcolm are very shallow, largely because it is either southerners who are bad because they're enslaved people.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Or enslaved people who deserve freedom. And it's pretty cut and dry and a lot of the nuance and the power dynamics and all of that stuff is assigned to Elle and Malcolm.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

And that's a function of it being a romance novel. I think if it were a. If it were just a spy thriller, you might get some of Those wrinkles explored through other characters. And that's not what Cole's up to, in my opinion.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

So sure, it's a cool book. I think people should read it.

[Andrew]

Glad you had a good read.

[Craig]

If people have read the rest of this series, please send us a message. I'd love to know where it goes. I thought the kind of like medium term happy ending was really clever, so I'd love to know more about that. Send us a message. Tell us other books that refer to him as Jeff Davis. I think I still laugh about that. Send us an email. Overdupodmail.com hit us up on social media Media verdupod We're mostly on bluesky and Instagram. I have a list of folks I want to thank for reaching out in the past week. Andrew Talking about like thriving social media ecosystems. I have folks who I just got usernames. I don't even have their first names. I've got Robert, I've got Common Sense, got tom. Library paste 513 to 972. Is that a person? Are those area codes? I don't know. Marcy, Anna, Connor. Thank you for having names that I can shout out. I don't know what's going on. Nick Loran just composed our theme music. Andrew if folks want to know more about the show, where do they go?

[Andrew]

Overduepodcast.com is the Internet website where you can find us. We have the schedule for whatever the current month is up there. Usually along with book links. You can click to buy the book from bookshop.org and read along with us. We also get a small cut of that if you are mostly interested in supporting us. Of course. You go to patreon.com overdue pod there you can give us cold hard American cash in exchange for benefits like only Union dollars.

[Craig]

Please no Confederate money dollars.

[Andrew]

We do not consent. We do not accept Confederate money or any kind of scrip that just just legal tender. Only you get access to our Discord community, to our current long read project which is called the Silly Marillion about J.R.R. tolkien's the Silmarillion. Craig, did you post episode three yet?

[Craig]

I did. It's up. It is called Of Elves and Stewed Curses.

[Andrew]

The. The naming convention for this is that we look at the names of Lord of the Rings chapters and then we just kind of like make them.

[Craig]

That one took a little.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's. It's hard. It's hard to do. We. We picked it early without like mapping it all out in advance. And now we are stuck with it. We. You can also get what weird experiments. We are going to be doing another one of those pretty soon, I think just like little episodes that aren't about special collections. You've got our our monthly newsletter, dusty bookshelves and all kinds of other stuff. Again, patreon.com overdue pod next week for the show I am read Summer People by Emma Rosenbloom. It's about horrible white people who are trapped on an island together.

[Craig]

Huh? A great antidote to the Civil War.

[Andrew]

Yes. And that's. That's it. You got anything else? We good?

[Craig]

No. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Thanks, Andrew, for letting me tell you about the book.

[Andrew]

Of course, of course. Anytime. But usually I would prefer you could do it anytime. I would prefer it be in front of a microphone on like kind of a weekly schedule, though, because of our commitments to contractual obligations.

[Craig]

Yes, of course.

[Andrew]

All right, everybody. Until we are contractually obligated to talk to you next time, please try to be happy. That was a Headgum podcast.