Ep 735 - American Girl: Meet Samantha, by Susan S. Adler & Meet Addy, by Connie Porter

Summary

Overdue Podcast: Episode 735 American Girl: Meet Samantha & Meet Addy
Released December 29, 2025 | Hosts: Andrew & Craig | Publisher: Headgum

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Episode Overview

In this nostalgic and critically engaged episode, hosts Craig and Andrew delve into two foundational American Girl books: Meet Samantha by Susan S. Adler and Meet Addy by Connie Porter. Through their characteristic blend of humor, thorough research, and genuine curiosity, they explore the origins and legacy of the American Girl franchise—paying special attention to how these historical children’s books introduce complicated themes of class, race, and identity to young readers.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The American Girl Phenomenon: Context and Creation

• Origins of the Dolls and Books
  • American Girl was founded by Pleasant Roland in 1986, inspired by a trip to Colonial Williamsburg and a desire to make American history accessible and engaging for children, specifically girls aged 8 to 11.
  • Roland identified a market gap between "baby dolls" and adult-aspirational dolls like Barbie, aiming for historical realism paired with educational narratives.
• Business Development and Cultural Impact
  • Initially a mail-order company, AG launched with Kirsten, Samantha, and Molly.
  • The line expanded with Felicity (1991) and Addy (1993), the latter notably being the first Black doll in the collection.
  • Roland described the franchise as “[chocolate] cake with vitamins—dolls with accessories, but with compelling stories meant to teach history.”
    • Roland Quote [12:25]:
      “If she loved the character, she would want the doll. If she had the doll, she would want the clothes and accessories to play out the stories... nothing could [just] be product; it had to be right down to the tiniest detail.”
  • The dolls were considered "mastige" items (mass-produced prestige), marketed as occasion gifts—comparable to gaming consoles for boys.

2. The Making and Weight of Addy's Story

• Addy's Unique Development Process
  • Addy Walker was the first Black historical character (introduced 1993), crafted with input from a dedicated panel of Black historians to ensure authenticity, avoid whitewashing, and address sensitive points like language and depictions of suffering.
  • Porter, the author, initially included the N-word, but after discussion and consideration for different school environments, it was excluded in the published version.
    • Slate/Aisha Harris Quote [17:58]:
      “For almost two decades, generations of young Black girls... had only one choice: Addy Walker... [a figure] revered by many... criticized by others as a vehicle for wallowing in Black suffering.”
    • Cheryl Chisholm (Panelist), on Addy’s story [21:02]:
      “Everybody agreed that it had to be a story of self-authorized flight to freedom. We were all very concerned that the experience of slavery not be whitewashed.”
    • Connie Porter (Author), on Addy's reception [21:44]:
      “What was hard for critics to counter was the authenticity of the story and the quality of the project. African Americans saw a face, felt a spirit. Through my words, they heard a voice that spoke to them. Addie Walker was… an ancestor we have reclaimed.”
  • Addy remained the only Black historical doll until 2011.

3. From Book to IP: Commercialization and Cultural Permanence

• The Franchise Ecosystem

  • The series grew into a full economic and cultural juggernaut, spawning magazines, themed stores, movies, and ever-expanding lines of accessories.
  • The dolls (originally $60 in 1986; Samantha now $135) became prestigious gifts, with a thriving aftermarket of outfits and sets.
    • Andrew, on modern pricing [49:34]:
      “The Addy doll right now is $135... you could spend thousands trying to complete a set of anybody because there’s so much stuff...”
  • The franchise was sold to Mattel for $700 million (per Forbes, June 2025).

• Archiving and Reinventing Characters

  • Dolls like Samantha were officially “archived,” then periodically revived (e.g., in the “BeForever” rebrand).
  • Introduction of more diverse characters and transition into "Truly Me" create-your-own dolls and "Girl of the Year" stories.
  • Latest: Raquel Reyes (2025), a Girl of the Year, connects back to Samantha, exploring multicultural identity.

4. Meet Samantha: Innocence Meets Social Awareness

• Plot Overview
  • Samantha Parkington, an orphan living with her wealthy Grandmary in 1904, befriends Nellie, a servant girl.
  • Through their friendship, Samantha confronts class differences, poverty, and the inequities in her privileged world.
• Key Podcast Insights
  • The book uses Samantha’s growing awareness to gently introduce themes of wealth disparity, labor, and social roles (especially for young girls).
  • Craig on Samantha’s arc [46:59]:
    “Samantha is learning things about the world… and that, to me, is accomplishing some of the best of what this series offers.”
  • The back matter includes factual, accessible mini-essays on 1904 American life for girls and servants.
• Memorable Craig-and-Andrew Bits
  • Craig jokes about Samantha threatening to break a neighbor’s Game Boy—then corrects to period-appropriate beetle collections [35:36].
  • Both marvel at “Jelly biscuit accessory packs” and the dizzying extent of the AG merch ecosystem [39:23, 50:11].

5. Meet Addy: Realism, Resilience, and First-Person History

• Plot Overview
  • Addy is a nine-year-old enslaved girl in 1864 North Carolina; key themes include family separation, resilience, and taking active part in her own freedom.
  • After her brother and father are sold, Addy and her mother escape under the cover of night, facing danger and uncertainty.
    • Addy’s words at the book's end [64:07]:
      “Mama, we done it… just like Papa said, we took our freedom.”
• Key Podcast Insights
  • Andrew commends the narrative’s age-appropriateness—the book addresses the horrors of enslavement without becoming exploitative, focusing instead on resourcefulness and hope.
  • The back matter provides young readers with direct civil war, slavery, and music history context.

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Quotes & Notable Moments

• On AG’s Educational/Cynical Duality
  • “Two things can be true: they’re teaching history, but also endlessly upselling accessories.” [51:03, Craig]
• On Nostalgic Exclusivity
  • “I didn’t think about [the prestige aspect] at 8... but I sure did want the Goosebumps pogs and Monster Blood.” [51:50, Craig]
• Commercialization Humor
  • “If you could not buy this hat, I would eat mine.” [60:28, Andrew on Addy's “lucky hat”]

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Structure of the American Girl Books (Both Titles)

• Early chapter books with inline illustrations and short, focused chapters.
• Each book ends with non-fiction historical “Looking Back” essays, visuals, and a dramatis personae.
• Formula: six-book arcs per character (Meet, School, Holiday, Birthday, Adventure, Change).

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:03–15:17: History of American Girl, Pleasant Roland, and American doll philosophy.
• 17:22–25:18: Creation of Addy, authenticity and decisions around representation.
• 31:07–48:52: Deep dive into Meet Samantha, plot, class consciousness, and accessory tie-ins.
• 53:50–66:22: Breakdown of Meet Addy, plot, emotional beats, and narrative realism.
• 66:47–70:59: Reflections on the non-fiction content, AG’s educational merit vs. commercial aspects.
• 71:03 onward: Listener comments, Patreon shoutouts, wrap-up.

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Tone and Style

The episode balances affectionate nostalgia, critical cultural and historical analysis, and playful banter. Andrew and Craig blend research with personal memories, punctuated by gentle teasing and quips about doll accessories, consumerism, and their own 1980s/90s toy obsessions.

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Summary Verdict:
Even as the American Girl empire induces sticker shock and “mastige” skepticism, Andrew and Craig appreciate what these books attempted: introducing complex and sometimes uncomfortable chapters of history to young readers—offering both “chocolate cake” and real vitamins.

Transcript

[Andrew]

This is a Headgun podcast.

[Craig]

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[Andrew]

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[Craig]

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[Andrew]

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[Craig]

People say nonsense and I say no, thank you.

[Andrew]

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[Craig]

I like that. So turn your expensive wireless present into huge wireless savings future by switching to Mint Shop. Mint unlimited [e-mail] overdue. That's mintmobile.com overdue. It's a limited time offer. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 month plan required. That's the 15 month equivalent. Taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term Only greater than 35 gigabytes. May slow when network is busy. Capable device required. Availability, speed and coverage varies.

[Mattea Roach]

See mintmobile.com okay, so you've just finished an amazing book. You laughed, you cried, you told all your friends about it. But you're not ready to be done talking about it yet because you have a million questions for the author here's where I might be able to help. I'm Mattea Roach and on my podcast bookends, I ask authors all your burning questions. Like why is John Green obsessed with tuberculosis? And why did Taylor Jenkins Reid want to bring her latest love story to outer space? You can check out bookends with Mattea Roach on your favorite podcast app.

[Andrew]

While Andrew and Craig believe the joy.

[Craig]

Of discovery is crucial to enjoying any well told tale, they will not shy.

[Andrew]

Away from spoiling specific story beats when necessary.

[Craig]

Plus, these are books you should have read by now. Hey everybody. Welcome to Overdue. It's a podcast about the books you've been meaning to read. My name is Craig.

[Andrew]

My name is Andrew.

[Craig]

American Girl Come buy some dolls. American Girl Hang it on your wall. Buy some books and learn stuff too. You can make a doll that looks like you.

[Andrew]

And don't forget to accessorize.

[Craig]

Don't forget to accessorize something Something in her eyes. American Doll welcome to our book podcast, Andrew. I've never owned an American Doll.

[Andrew]

I've never owned an American Girl doll. Except insofar. Well, Zeus doesn't really own the dolls anymore either. She does own some of the accessories.

[Craig]

Oh sure.

[Andrew]

And when we got married, I guess all of our stuff legally belongs to it. That's how it works each other.

[Craig]

Now the bank Capital T, Capital B says all your stuff is each other's stuff.

[Andrew]

All our stuff is each other's stuff. So I do own a shoe box of American Girl Doll accessories that I was asked at one point to check ebay about. I never did get around to doing it.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

It's only, it's only appreciated in value, I'm sure.

[Craig]

I'm sure. I'm sure.

[Andrew]

Whenever I don't do something that someone's asked me to do, it's because I expect it to appreciate in value in the interval between.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

That I'm asked to do it. And when I get to it, that.

[Craig]

That bag of trash, you know, it's only going to appreciate in value when I take it out tomorrow morning right before the garbage truck arrives. Hopefully.

[Andrew]

I mean, you're just, that's just supply and demand. The garbage people are outside demanding the garbage and you're gonna meet the demand at its peak.

[Craig]

That's true. That's how it works. This is our book podcast where each week one of us reads a book and tells the other person about it. To celebrate the close of the holiday season. We thought we might read some books not inspired by, but kind of that go along with gifts of a sort and we are going to, we each read a book in the American Girl series and we're going to talk a little bit about the dolls, where they come from. And I've never read any of these, Andrew. I never had one of these dolls as a kid.

[Andrew]

No. Like I was. So the, the normal formula for these is that one batch of three books would come out and then later another batch of three books would come out. So each doll has six books?

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

And when I told my brother in law just mentioned in passing because people ask like, what are you reading for the show? And I didn't want to talk about Krampus, so I talked about, I talked about the American Girl books and he was like, oh, which ones are you reading? And I mentioned that we were just reading Meet Addie and Meet Samantha. And he was like, oh, it's gonna be a light week for you, huh? And I was like, listen, man, we don't, we don't take time off. We can have a light week if we want.

[Craig]

Yeah. And we, you know, we have fun in our children's book week episodes. We always know how to have a good time here on Overdue, even if the reads are a little light because that's, you know, these are books. I've never read one of these books before. I read Meet Samantha by Susan. Is it S. Adler, I think is her name.

[Andrew]

I read Meet Addie by Connie Porter.

[Craig]

I think you will probably have more on Connie Porter than I could find on Susan Adler. I could find zero on Ms. Adler.

[Andrew]

I believe a lot of stuff about the process of coming up with Addie, like the seven member board that they put together. Okay, good.

[Craig]

Okay, good. Because Adler only wrote like two of these Samantha books. It's my understanding Samantha is the first of the doll. She's not the first chronologically, but. So we'll talk about that.

[Andrew]

Yeah. The first three dolls chronologically in release order are Kirsten, Samantha and Molly. And I don't think, I think they all came out at the same time. I could be wrong.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Andrew]

Felicity in 1991 and then Addie in 93 as the fifth doll and the first black doll.

[Craig]

Yes. Yes. So what do we got here? We got the American Girl line of toys created by pleasant Roland in 1986.

[Andrew]

She sounds like a nice lady.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Because of her first name.

[Craig]

She was born in 1941 in Chicago and then grew up in the burbs. Her father was an ad executive. I don't think it was Don Draper, but I can't say that for sure. I guess he would. He was not. He was not a man raising a family in 1941.

[Andrew]

No, he was a man raising. Well, raising a family and also philandering in the late 50s.

[Craig]

Yeah, fair enough. At the beginning of that series, there are other executives. I'm sure she went to Wells College.

[Andrew]

Other than the fictional character Don Draper. Yeah, probably.

[Craig]

She begins doing a lot of teaching. She does some on air reporting and anchor work in San Francisco. And then she moved into a position as director of product development for Boston Educational Research, where they put together a lot of textbooks and reading programs. I did double check if any of the names of the various reading programs she worked on were part of, like, the recent reporting on how apparently we've been teaching kids to read. Wrong. And yeah, her name, her work did not come up. So I don't. Not. I have no idea. Just. That is like a thing that's always in the back of my brain right now just to make. I'm just nervous about it.

[Andrew]

So Henry's learning how to read has been driven primarily by his desire to play more video games. But also, you know, he reads the instructions on the little, little Home Depot kid workshops that we do. Even though those are not written.

[Craig]

No.

[Andrew]

At a kindergarten reading level.

[Craig]

No. Henry's reading is great if he will.

[Andrew]

Consent to do it.

[Craig]

If Simon comes even half as easily and, well, as Henry has, then I will be really happy.

[Andrew]

When I made a Plato S for Simon the other night and he did identify it as an S, and S is for Simon.

[Craig]

Yes, it was.

[Andrew]

So you've come at least that far.

[Craig]

It was fun on Christmas that Simon was able to identify presents that were his because they said Simon on them. That was pretty fun. So Roland says she starts American Girls after a trip to colonial Williamsburg in 1984. Thinking about American history, thinking about how to teach kids history. Can we bring it alive for kids these days? I went there as a kid. I know I did. Yes. I just don't remember it. I was pretty young.

[Andrew]

Being in Ohio, Williamsburg would have been a bit of a trek. So we did not do that.

[Craig]

And I also, like, I grew up by Valley Forge in pa, and so we're like, we're already near Revolutionary War stuff.

[Andrew]

Like, I don't know that we visited any place. I mean, there were some, like, native burial mounds in Ohio that I think we visited. And then the bits of the Underground Railroad that were in Ohio we learned about. So that's. That's our connection to, you know, like, earlier American history.

[Craig]

Sure. There would usually be a school trip.

[Andrew]

Not a lot of revolutionary stuff.

[Craig]

Yeah. We would have school trips to an old house where people are wearing old clothes and making butter the old way. Like that's like here, welcome. These chairs are 200 years old and here's a lady pretending to make butter. In a way she's never gonna eat it, you know. So anyway, Roland wants to make these dolls. She also observes. I don't know, I'm not an expert on the doll market in the 80s at the time, but her observation is that their girls are socialized around baby dolls and around like aspirational adult dolls. Like Barbie.

[Andrew]

Like Barbie.

[Craig]

Yeah. There are not dolls geared towards kids at the age that they are. And so she wants to come up with this line of toys for, you know, 8 to 11 year olds. Ish. Where the dolls would be girls of that age and they would come with a historical story. She worked with a woman named Valerie Tripp who would write a lot of books in the original, you know, series for Felicity, Josephina, Kit, Molly, Mary Ellen, three of the Samantha books. And the two of them worked to create Kirsten Larson, Samantha Targinton and Molly McIntyre. Kirsten is a Swedish immigrant in 1850s Minnesota. Samantha, Minnesota. Samantha is an orphan in, you know, a fictional New York town in the progressive era, 1900s. And Molly McIntyre is in living in World War II era.

[Andrew]

And I think you can pretty easily take either side of the like. These are valuable educational tools that are meeting girls where they are. And also these are relentless capitalist upsells. Roland said that the dolls are meant to be, quote, chocolate cake with vitamins. They're dolls that have accessories, but also they have accompanying books and historical context intended to teach girls about different aspects of American history. This is Roland quote, I knew there was magic in the American girl concept. It was the whole idea, not just part. I knew the books had to have stories so good the reader would identify with and fall in love with the character. If she loved the character, she would want the doll. If she had the doll, she would want the clothes and accessories to play out the stories. If she played out the story, she would want more books. So nothing could dis product had to be right down to the tiniest detail.

[Craig]

Yep, it's a real soup to nuts situation.

[Andrew]

Boy, you do love when you haven't.

[Craig]

Said soup to nuts. You haven't said soup to nuts in a while.

[Andrew]

I do have to. I have to roll the sign over now that you've said it, but it has gone.

[Craig]

I'm squeezing it in before the end of the year. Refresh in 2026.

[Andrew]

If you don't use your soup to nuts now, you'll just lose it for the next fiscal year. Yeah, yeah. So like, is it a racket? Is it just a really, a well designed thing that happens to be educational? I don't know.

[Craig]

I read a. I read a nice article in the New Yorker by Lizzie Feedlson. 2023. Why are millennials still attached to American Girl? There are two authors, Mary Mahoney and Allison Horrocks, who both also did a podcast on the American Girl books called Dolls of Our Lives. Why We Can't Quit. American Girl talks a lot about just like where this toy hits for women around our age, like millennial women.

[Andrew]

And hello millennial women listeners.

[Craig]

Points out that, you know, these dolls cost like $60 in 1986.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And a 2009 Journal of Marketing issue of Journal of Marketing called it a mastige item, which is like, like a mass produced prestige item.

[Andrew]

I see.

[Craig]

Like it is meant to. It was marketed to middle class consumers with the understanding that if you are buying it, it is a luxury purchase. And that was as a kid, knowing girls and like, like, you know, friends, sisters and whoever who got these things. It was always the like, that is your big birthday present or your big Christmas gift.

[Andrew]

I mean it occupies for me and probably for you too. I think new video games would occupy a similar.

[Craig]

You get one game, that's your game.

[Andrew]

You get like one or two games and then like every, I don't know, five, six years maybe you get a console and that's like your only thing.

[Craig]

Yep, that is the thing. And then that, of course we'll talk a little bit more about Addie specifically, I think, because you have more research on Addie. But I'm not glossing over her by jumping ahead to say 1991, we get Felicity. They're all doing this mail order out of Wisconsin for now. They launch a magazine in 92. Addie comes in 93. As you're going to talk about, they opened the first store in 1998 in Chicago. And then not long after this, pre.

[Andrew]

Okay, this is pre, just pre sale to Mattel.

[Craig]

That is like just pre sale to Mattel for like a lot of money. Is it like 700 million or something?

[Andrew]

Something Huge amount of money. I don't have the figures. Yep.

[Craig]

Let me see if I have this jotted down from Forbes. Sold it to Mattel for $700 million is what Forbes said in a June 2025America's richest self Made Women listing that included Roland.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And she serves on their board for a little bit as well before she retires from the board and retires from American Girl entirely.

[Andrew]

And then she doesn't give press interviews anymore. Like there's a big slate piece in 2016 about Addie that I'm going to quote from a lot here.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

That reached out to Roland and by then she was just like not talking about this anymore.

[Craig]

Yeah, I, I won't pretend to understand the ins and outs of her running a like purchasing and then running this business. Mackenzie Childs. It's like a furniture and home goods business. It seems very fraught and I don't know what happened. It's like I was trying to read economic articles about it and got a little glazy eyed about it.

[Andrew]

So I don't know, I wasn't able to fall down that rabbit hole. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get to Chicken Soup for the Soul Owns.

[Craig]

Exactly. She did some more business after that and she's done a plenty, you know, plenty of philanthropy in Wisconsin, in Chicago. So probably as complicated as a successful business person might be who also then creates American American Girl. Tell me about Addie, Andrew.

[Andrew]

Well, so there's a lot of stuff about, about Addie specifically because she is the first black doll and there was a lot of, there's a lot of attention paid to like the process of creating her. I don't, I don't have a lot of detail on how the other American girls are created.

[Craig]

Doesn't seem like it was this way though.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I don't have a ton on like the formula outside of what I learned from reading about how the Addie stuff came together. But it's just, it's, it is, it is interesting because it was a big, it was kind of a big cultural moment. And then Addie is the only black doll in this collection until like 2011.

[Craig]

Y.

[Andrew]

So yeah, it's a, it's a big thing. This is from the Slate piece I mentioned is by Aisha Harris, written in 2016 and she says for almost two decades, generations of young black girls turning to the American Girl series for stories about characters who look like them only had one choice. Addie Walker, nine year old girl born into slavery, who in the accompanying books eventually escapes to freedom alongside her mother. Ever since she arrived as the fifth doll in the company's incredibly successful collection of mail order dolls, Addie has been a polarizing figure, revered by many as an inspiring character and an important educational tool and criticized by others as a vehicle for wallowing in black suffering. Much has been written about the painful memory she conjures up. I've had my own difficulties wrestling with how Addie made me feel as a child. A lot of these feelings are rooted not in a disdain for Addie herself, but the clear cut lack of choice. While my white peers could pick from any number of varied characters made in their likeness, I could not.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

So yeah, the process for coming up with Addie is pleasant. Roland, realizing that she is a white woman overseeing an overwhelmingly white company, brings in this like this board or panel of like seven black historians who are all involved in all the decision making stuff for Addie. And it does not sound like this was just like a cosmetic thing. Like they were deeply involved in, in fact checking and in looking at the illustrations and looking at the, the books themselves. Like it gets down to the level where they fact checked a scene where Addie and her mother are like swimming in a river and there's a full moon out and they're like, we need to check and make sure that they are running away at a part of 1864 where there actually would have been a full moon out.

[Craig]

Oh gosh, we can do this. Okay.

[Andrew]

And yeah, I mean there's some debate over whether to use the N word, which Porter initially includes in the books, but which is not in the books as published from the Slate piece. Again, they had to consider the environments in which the book would be read. They thought about the black child in an all white school, the white teacher at an all black school, and so on. Harris said she wondered whether schools that assigned the book would be prepared to quote to lead these discussions in a fashion that could be both honest and empathetic and then not wanting it to be banned along with Huckleberry Finn. Yep. And then Porter eventually is kind of convinced that the, the other, the illustrations and the other language that, that Master Stevens use and Addie and her family all use to, to communicate the horrors of slavery. All are. And they, they avoid the N word thing.

[Craig]

Huh.

[Andrew]

But yeah, so the, the panel was, was really invested in making sure that the Addie doll did not become sort of the help. I mean the movie had not come out at this point, but, but you know, I mean like the white savior thing. Cheryl Chisholm, one of the members of the panel says everybody agreed that it had to be a story of self authorized flight to freedom. We were all very concerned that the experience of slavery not be whitewashed.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

And yeah, it was, it was just, it's just, it was a, it was a long and it was a It was an involved process. And the product that that comes out is. You know, it is. It is a commercial thing. It is. You know, some, I think, critics who do say that it's like sort of cashing in on black paint. I mean, they have a point here is, what do I have? I've got some stuff from Porter, though, which I think is.

[Craig]

I think Connie Porter who wrote.

[Andrew]

Yeah, this is Connie Porter who wrote the books. And I want to. I think I want to mostly come away with, like, a positive read on. On Addie, because it seems like a lot of people did take away good, good things from the existence of this doll.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

This is Porter in 2023, on Addy's 30th anniversary. Quote from the launch of the Addy series. There were critics and some sense of skepticism that Addy and her line of merchandise was merely a way for a white company to exploit slavery. Though the belief was argued, what was hard for critics to counter was the authenticity of the story and the quality of the project. What was also hard for critics to argue to counter was the way the African American community embraced Addie. Through the brilliant illustrations of Melody Benson Rosales, African Americans saw a face, felt a spirit. Through my words. They heard a voice that spoke to them. Addie Walker was is that ancestor we have reclaimed. And this is in. This is from a quote. This is from somebody who played Addie in, like, an American Girl, associated, like, stage production. Like, they put these on at their stores.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

From Melanie Brazil, who played Addie. Not to downplay any of the things the other American girls experience, but one girl had a dream to be able to ride a horse. You know, that was Felicity's story. But Addy, the things she went through at her young age, I found strength in that, she says. I found it really eye opening that we would have white girls would show up with Addie dolls and they would say Addie was their favorite story. And that wasn't like a once or twice thing. And that's where I'm coming at it, because I think we both picked the doll that our wives had.

[Craig]

Yes. Laura had a Samantha.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Addie was one of the ones that Sue's had.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

And, yeah, like, there was. There's some stuff with Rosales, the illustrator who conflicted with Roland a lot. Like, there was, like, she was concerned with the whiteness of the company. She got a lot of pushback on some illustrations that tried to depict, like, different skin tones among the black characters, not just wanting everybody to kind of look the same. There was Some controversy over the hair chosen. Like, do we represent, you know, sort of natural, kinky black hair and risk like white, white people complaining about it? Or do we put out a doll with like, straight, quote, manageable hair and then have to get into, well, why would a black girl have straight hair? Where genetically would that have come from?

[Craig]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

In this time period. So, you know, there's a lot of. It was. It was an interesting deep dive.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

To learn more stuff about how this doll was created. And then, and then, yeah, it is, it is too bad that the next black girl in this. This doll series does not come out until 2011, and then there's another one in 2016. But, like, that's how long it took them to make a historical black doll that is not like a slave. It did take a while for them to revisit that particular.

[Craig]

Well, well, and the. I'm interested to hear about the book because it. My.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Samantha's journey is. Is like, it's sort of about like class consciousness and it is a little bit of like scales falling from a little girl's eyes about the way the world works just a little bit.

[Andrew]

The characterization of Felicity as her dream was to ride a horse.

[Craig]

And so, you know, I think Samantha's an interesting kind of like, what if the world was not as simple as you thought it was? Right. That's what we learned.

[Andrew]

I wanted to front load a lot of the complicated stuff about Addie because when we talk about the books, I want to, I want to spend time on, like, the formula of it and the tie ins and like, how the, how it markets them, basically.

[Craig]

Oh, sure, yeah, yeah. And yeah, these, this original, like, line of the historical characters, many of them were then kind of like put away. Like, Samantha was officially archived in 2009.

[Andrew]

She's in the vault.

[Craig]

Yeah. And then they came back with something in 2014 called Be Forever, which. Why are you calling it Be Forever? Where they just like brought back some new. Some of the. Of the six original historical characters. But they like, were trying to rebrand it as like, tying it to all of these other girls that they'd released. And then they took that away and then they did a special edition, an anniversary edition in 2021, and then they retired Be Forever and then they came back with the classic outfit in 2025.

[Andrew]

This is a, this is. I mean, I don't know the. In detail the history of the Mattel Corporation, but I do recognize from my time spent in the Thomas and Friends universe that this is what happens when Mattel buys a property and then sees sales start to fall off and then does not know what to do with it.

[Craig]

Yeah, yep.

[Andrew]

And is just continually trying to like juz it up and I don't know, make it more like Paw Patrol or whatever.

[Craig]

Well, and I'm sure our friends who are, who are like big comics heads are like familiar with like. Well, and then there was another crisis event and then where there was a new universe and then Spider man had new friends, but then we had to bring back the old friends. And that's just like the nature of not just making a book, but making IP and wanting to sell the IP 20 years later.

[Andrew]

Yeah, right.

[Craig]

As you alluded to, there are, you know, several films of sorts throughout the American girl franchise. In 2004 we get one of the first, which is Samantha An American Girl Holiday released on the WWW B. And then we'd get Felicity, Molly and Kit Kittredge theatrical. Kit Kittridge came out in 2008 starring Abigail Breslin. I think Kit Kittredge is like one of the names of the girls that is just like in my brain.

[Andrew]

Kit Kittredge.

[Craig]

Kit Kittredge. Other DTV videos would follow. And then in 2016, some of them start appearing on Amazon. And then of course, with the success of the live action Barbie film, there have been talks about another live action American Girl movie.

[Andrew]

What would you do? Like, would it be about.

[Craig]

I don't know, man. They're making a Madden Andrew. I don't know about the dolls. I. I guess they made a movie about the Jordan shoes or whatever.

[Andrew]

Huh.

[Craig]

Am I wrong? It was the Jordan shoes, right?

[Andrew]

I don't know what you're talking about. I believe you. Okay.

[Craig]

About shoes. Jordan shoes. Yeah. Called Air. It had Matt Damon in it. What are we doing? And Ben Affleck.

[Andrew]

I mean, I saw the Battleship movie. I was there.

[Craig]

Yeah, I was there.

[Andrew]

I was there when American cinema turned to adaptations and was just like, this is all we do now.

[Craig]

It is all we do now.

[Andrew]

And we're gonna find the weirdest stuff we can possibly find and we're gonna adapt it and you're just gonna watch it.

[Craig]

So, yes, I'm sure there's plenty more about the American Girl enterprise and empire that we have not covered. But we only read these two books and now it's an invitation for folks at home to tell us their story. So, you know, we'll take a quick break, we'll come back and talk to you about. Meet Samantha and meet Addie.

[Beck Bennett]

Hi, I'm Beck Bennett.

[Kyle Mooney]

I thought I was Beck Bennett.

[Beck Bennett]

No, no, no, no.

[Craig]

It's okay. Kyle Mooney.

[Beck Bennett]

Yeah, sorry about that.

[Andrew]

Exactly.

[Beck Bennett]

No, all good.

[Craig]

All good.

[Beck Bennett]

Thanks, buddy.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Beck Bennett]

And we host the show what's our podcast here on Headgum.

[Kyle Mooney]

But we want to make sure you heard about a very special episode with a very special guest that we just released. In the feed.

[Beck Bennett]

Yeah, it's in the feed. It was sponsored by Squarespace because they were appalled that we didn't have a website for our show yet.

[Craig]

They were like, you don't have a website?

[Kyle Mooney]

What are you guys, kindergarteners?

[Beck Bennett]

They wanted to do something about that. So we built a flawless, beautiful, perfectly designed website live on the pod with our very special guest. A very web savvy guest. Should we tell them who it was?

[Andrew]

Let's.

[Kyle Mooney]

We could play 20 questions.

[Beck Bennett]

I don't think we have time for that.

[Kyle Mooney]

Is it Person?

[Beck Bennett]

No, it's not.

[Kyle Mooney]

It's Finn Wolfhard. But Finn had a bunch of great ideas for the website. Beck, you had some amazing ideas for the website.

[Andrew]

Thanks, man.

[Beck Bennett]

You had some amazing ideas for the.

[Kyle Mooney]

Well, I was sort of driving the thing. I was sort of like clicking and.

[Beck Bennett]

And I was like, let's put a little. Let's put some widgets in there. I was talking about widgets.

[Kyle Mooney]

You kept on using that phrase, widgets.

[Beck Bennett]

Yeah, there's all sorts of stuff there. And you might want to check out the hippo. Just go check out the website.

[Kyle Mooney]

Just know that there's a hippo video and know that you're gonna wa.

[Andrew]

Watch that.

[Kyle Mooney]

We had a lot of fun making this episode. We had a lot of fun making this web series. I think you're gonna have a fun time listening to it and maybe watching it. Think of it as our. A little Christmas present to you or.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Beck Bennett]

Yeah. This is a gift for you. Okay. It's just like. It's a selfless thing we did for you.

[Kyle Mooney]

Thanks to Squarespace for making us build a website sponsoring the episode, and for supporting creators across the Headgum network.

[Beck Bennett]

Go check out the bonus episode. What's our website from? What's our podcast on YouTube or wherever.

[Kyle Mooney]

You listen to podcasts, go to squarespace.com beand Kyle for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code Beckand.

[Craig]

Kyle.

[Andrew]

Yes, Sir.

[Kyle Mooney]

To save 10% off your first purchase.

[Andrew]

Of a website automate.

[Kyle Mooney]

Get it?

[Craig]

Kyle. Nice to meet you. Andrew.

[Andrew]

Nice to. Nice to meet me too.

[Craig]

What it is.

[Andrew]

Nice to meet me.

[Craig]

That's appalling. I would like you to meet my friend Samantha.

[Andrew]

Was Samantha introduced in sort of a six book structure that used an introductory book followed by five successive installments centering on school, Christmas, a birthday, summer and winter.

[Craig]

Yes, she was.

[Andrew]

Because I think that's the formula that it uses.

[Craig]

Yes, that is, that is what. How she was introduced. I'm trying to find books.

[Andrew]

The formatting of the books is interesting. I think you ended up getting one from a. From your library. I ended. I borrowed one online from the Internet archive where they're up. Because I did want to. An easy ebook doesn't exist. And I did want to make sure that I got like the. The experience of the inline images and everything as it would have been presented as a real reader. So it's. They're these little books. They are early chapter books. They have some full page illustrations peppered in and then they also have these little inline illustrations. And you can just imagine the experience of trying to move these around in a Word document. Watching the formatting of the whole rest of the book just kind of blow up. That's. That's the way these images are inserted. That's what it brought to mind for me. But images of like, you know, a little, little cowrie shell for Addie or like little, little toys or accessories or clothing. And you just know that with every one of those little illustrations is a real life accessory that you can spend cash money on to buy.

[Craig]

Sure. Oh sure. Yes. Samantha's story, Samantha. Her novels run from 1904 to 1906. They were published from 1986 to 1988. And yes, I had to track down a copy from the Free Library of Philadelphia. The edition I'm reading is from. It's a reprint from 1998 published by Pleasant Company Publications. So I guess Pre Mattel maybe which is kind of interesting. And it's got illustrations by Don Andresen, Dan Andresen, who I think was the second illustrator on this series. And yeah, it's. So it's Meet Samantha An American Girl by Susan S. Adler, which is. I read. Then Samantha learns a lesson. A school story that. That's weird that that has a colon and then a sub. Then Samantha's surprise. A Christmas story. Then Happy birthday Samantha. Samantha saves the day and changes for Samantha.

[Andrew]

Changes for Samantha, changes for Samantha.

[Craig]

Tell you from the back of the book here that Samantha Parkington is an orphan who lives in. Who lives with her rich grandmother in 1904. There are many servants in Grand Mary's busy bustling household, but there is no one for Samantha to play with. I love the name Grand Mary. I don't know if it's if it's because her name is Mary or what. But this is my grandma. She is grand Mary. And that's why she's so excited when Nellie moves in next door and Nellie has come to work so that she can send money back to her family in the city. Even though their lives are different, the two girls become good friends. And then I'm not going to spoil that because the rest is what we'll talk about in this here. But yeah, it's a book about, you know, we're going to meet Samantha. She's. She's a little lady. She's a lady of means, though she. Her parents have passed away and she lives with her. Well, to do grandmama. Her grandmary. And she has to over the course of this book, learn that the world is not as simple as that, you know?

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

Do you want me to just dive in?

[Andrew]

Yeah, please do.

[Craig]

Okay, great. Samantha. The voice is how the book opens. Somebody yelling her name. It's the jerk neighbor kid, Eddie, who's always just showing up to call Samantha dumb. And every once in a while, he has, like, information that she doesn't have and he's, like, there to lord it over her, right? And whenever he's annoying her her, like, she always ends their interactions with a like, well, you know, if you don't stop bothering me, I'm gonna break your Game Boy. But I'll frame. I'll make it so that it looks like you did it on purpose and you'll get in trouble.

[Andrew]

Her first one, like, isn't she from, like, 1906? Well, they had invented Game Boy.

[Craig]

She says, if you don't get out of here right now, I will take your entire beetle collection from behind the shed and I'll put it in the offering plate at church and I'll tell your mother you did it.

[Andrew]

And.

[Craig]

And he reacts because he knows that that would work. So he leaves. But it is always this kind of like, she. She gives us multiple iterations of that every time he shows up. And so she has just fallen out of a tree trying to climb a tree. She scratched her knee. She ripped her stocking. So she's gonna go inside and get some help from one of the servants in the house, Jesse, who is a black woman. That will be important to Samantha's learnings about the world in just a little bit.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Craig]

And we get a little bit through this scene with Jesse, where, like, she is helping clean her up. They're talking about, you know, how Samantha's like a little lady and she is, like, Learning how to be a woman. And she has to kind of like, you know, be a little proper and help around the house and do what her grandmother says. And she. Samantha talks about her Uncle Guard who just has big uncle energy. Uncle Gardner, he's just a big.

[Andrew]

Oh, Uncle Gardener. I thought he was like a guard.

[Craig]

No, but he does have big unk energy. Like he. He has a noisy automobile and he has a potential new wife named Cecilia.

[Andrew]

This is all uncle stuff.

[Craig]

Who has interesting ideas about womanhood, like women should be allowed to earn money, you know.

[Andrew]

That is interesting.

[Craig]

It is interesting.

[Andrew]

It does make me think about Pleasant Roland behind the scenes being like, we should do a book about how women should be allowed to be really filthy, disgustingly rich. I think that's what we need to lay the groundwork for with young women.

[Craig]

So Samantha is like, kind of, you know, asking Jesse questions about who Uncle Gardner should marry. She thinks that maybe he should marry a Roosevelt because she's seen news about Alice Roosevelt in the, you know, in the papers.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I mean, if. Is that an option?

[Craig]

I don't think she should. She also thinks that maybe Uncle Gardner is a spy that, you know, the president has sent him to do spying in Europe. And Jesse is like, listen, just calm yourself. You're just a little kid. So, like, there is this tension for Samantha of people acting, you know, expecting her to act like a little lady, but treating her like a little kid. And she goes and talks, has to sit with her grandmary every day and, like, work on her needlepoint for an hour and talk grandmary stuff. And she wants this doll downtown. I think she wants to name it Lydia after her late mother. She wants a doll, Andrew, wouldn't you believe?

[Andrew]

Yeah. I mean, yes, we should. We should publish this book where women earn lots of money and they want to spend the money on dolls.

[Craig]

Huh? And they do have a little conversation about whether or not she's allowed to earn money to save it up to buy the doll. And Grand Mary doesn't think that's a very good idea, but maybe if she does her piano practice and enough good deeds, she can get her doll.

[Andrew]

Maybe.

[Craig]

And she says, okay, that sounds good to me. Uncle Gardner arrives in his noisy car. They won't let Eddie ride in it because he's a jerk. And before he leaves, he. He drops news that there's a new girl coming to live at his house.

[Andrew]

Is it all of her, too?

[Craig]

No. Just thinking about the accessories that you mentioned, Andrew. There is a whole thing in the scene with Samantha and Jesse that there's just like a little cookie on the floor that she dropped there.

[Andrew]

Oh.

[Craig]

And it's gathering. It's a jelly biscuit and it's gathering ants. And there's. It's like a complete C plot of this chapter and only this chapter that the cookie is gathering ants. So, yeah, that's probably an accessory.

[Andrew]

This is a little ant cookie.

[Craig]

Yeah. And one of the other things that Samantha likes about Jesse is that her husband Lincoln is a porter on a train that goes all the way down to New Orleans. So he's away a lot, but he comes back with amazing stories and always writes and sends cards from New Orleans. Probably another accessory that you could purchase.

[Andrew]

New Orleans. Yeah, the New Orleans playset, probably.

[Craig]

And so she meets Nelly, who she sees through a hole in the hedge, who is hanging laundry at Eddie's house. And they meet, and Samantha's like, why are you working? You're doing work, work. A girl doing work. And Nelly's like, that's my job. That's why I'm here. My parents don't earn enough money at the factory, and I would prefer not to work at the factory because there's sunlight here and it's outside and I don't have to work six days a week. And so they're going to feed me here and I can earn money and send it home. And she's like, that's fascinating. Like, Samantha is like. She likes Nelly. She's a girl her age. She can have a friend. That sounds fun, but she is very confused at this, like, poverty and the notion that her family doesn't have enough food at home. It's like. It's not that she's just dumbfounded. She's concerned about it.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

And she tries to help her do the laundry, which Nelly is obviously nervous about. And then they play a little bit and she goes back inside and her grandma has given her the dollar. It's wonderful. Very nice for her.

[Andrew]

Good. Good grandmary. I mean, you don't think you should be able to earn money, but you should be able to earn dolls.

[Craig]

You should be able to earn dolls. Would you cash in for tickets or you earn tickets to cash in for dolls at the counter when you play skeeball?

[Andrew]

Gran Mary believes that you should be able to earn scrip in your house that your relatives can then cash in for? Yes.

[Craig]

The other major complication in this book, aside from meeting Nelly, is that Jesse, our beloved servant, is going away and it is not properly explained to Samantha at all. There's just one day where she walks in And Samantha's pack. Jesse's packing her bags and leaving.

[Andrew]

Does the reader understand why this is happening?

[Craig]

No, they do not tell you. You can surmise and you find out a chapter later. But okay, it's not a very long book. But Samantha is asking every adult. She's asking her grandmary, she's asking Jesse, she's asking Mr. And Mrs. Hawkins to the other servants, Uncle Gardner. No one will tell her why, just that Jesse needs to go and be at her house. And Samantha is a little bereft. Here's a, you know, a younger adult in the house who actually treats her a little bit like a person. And she's close with. And I'm thinking like, okay, is. Is there some sort of. What. What is the lesson we're going to learn? Is it going to be some sort of thing about Jesse's race and how people in town are treating her? Is it going to be something to do with her husband who's working on this on the train cars? Like, what is going on? Well, Samantha goes and talks to Nellie about it. What do you think, Andrew? What do you think it is? Jesse has to go away. She can't work right now.

[Andrew]

I don't know what's happening in 1904. Well, it doesn't map to any of the world wars.

[Craig]

Babies and babies just. Samantha meets with Nelly and they talk about it and she's like, I think maybe she's a spy. Maybe she's gonna be an actress. Maybe she's gonna be a singer. And Nelly goes, maybe she's just having a baby. Maybe she has to go, not work because she's having a child. And Samantha's like, well, that's not as exciting as my ideas, but it does make more sense.

[Andrew]

Sure. We go.

[Craig]

We should go. Well, they don't really know where they come from, Samantha.

[Andrew]

And we. And we still don't.

[Craig]

It's true. Samantha thinks storks are involved. Nelly knows that midwives are involved, but she doesn't know what they do. She just knows that they show up and then babies appear. So they have some correct information, but it is incomplete. And they're going to go check on Jesse and they need to sneak out of their house and go to Jesse's house because Nelly knows where Jesse lives because she's also, you know, a servant in a house and had to go borrow something from someone down the street from Jesse once. So there is like a. There's also, like, there's this, like, class thing where Nellie has access to information that Samantha doesn't have by virtue of her station, which is kind of interesting. So they scheme to sneak out at night and go over to Jesse's house. Nelly has to teach Samantha that there is a part of town that they make black folk live in that there is like, you know, the other part of town, and they don't let them live next to white folks. And Samantha's kind of confused by that. It doesn't seem fair. They go to her house and yes, of course, there's a beautiful baby there. That's why. That's the reason for the season. And Jesse's like, why did you sneak out of your house and come to my house at night? That's terrible. We got to get you home. You're going to get in trouble. Yes, I had a baby. I. I can't work right now. I don't think that I could bring my baby and work there. And Samantha's like, I'll ask Grand Mary. I'll solve it. So then they go back, and then the next day, Eddie is bragging that Nelly is going home and it's going to make Samantha sad. The reason is Nellie has a cough and Eddie's mom thinks that she's going to become sick and become a bother because I guess that's how that works. You don't want to care for your employees. So Samantha does put gum in Eddie's hair. Classic jape. And they get Mrs. Hawkins to pack a basket of food to go with Nellie. Samantha also gives her Lydia the dollar because she loves her friend so much and wants her friend to be happy. Then there's a scene with Gran Mary where Samantha tells Gran Mary everything she knows, that she knows that Jesse had a baby and that she thinks Gran Mary should have told her about it. And Granmary does have a sit and think and is like, yes, you're probably old enough. I could have told you that. Okay. And her whole special ideas from Samantha is that they should let Jesse come work at their house with the baby, which I don't think is very practical. I don't think. I don't. I think that might, you know, we'll see how that goes. They don't really resolve that, other than that's an idea under consideration. And Grandma is a little upset about the doll going missing. But then Uncle Gardner's like, well, you know, she did give it to her friend who was sent away, so that's a good thing. And it end. The book ends with Grand Mary being like, well, maybe we can find a way to help Nelly. Again, no specifics. No, like, are we adopting this kid or, like, sending them a little bit of cash or hiring this kid? But because you like this kid, we're gonna help her out. And you're. And you're becoming like a nice little lady. Good job, Samantha.

[Andrew]

Good job, Samantha.

[Craig]

So that's Meet Samantha. It's pretty straightforward, but it, like, it did it kind of exactly what I thought it might do as a work of early chapter book historical fiction where it's like, it's not super heavy on characterization. It's not going to be, but it is like, hey, here are two people in Samantha's life who are from different, you know, kind of different walks of life than her. She is like a vaguely. She is pretty privileged. Despite, like, her, you know, her being an orphan, she does live with a woman of means. And so she is learning things about the world. And that, that to me is like accomplishing some of the best of what this whole series would probably purport to offer. Right. There are some chapters in the back. There's like one section in the back called Looking back America in 1904 that is more of a nonfiction section about what little ladies like Samantha would wear and how that would be different from the various servants that would work for them and how hard servants had to work and that they were expected to work. Even though a servant's life was a hard one. There were plenty of people willing to do these jobs in 1904. Many of the people living in American cities were poor. They would do any kind of work just to help their family survive. If they weren't servants. They worked in factories for long hours and little pay. Children like Nelly went to work to help their families earn money. Then contrasting that with Samantha and then talking about modern women. Oh, not Cecilia Cornelia, who had different ideas and that America is changing. Yada, yada, yada. So an interesting little look at the 19 aughts through this young girl's perspective.

[Andrew]

I was just. And this is, this is a, this is a side effect of my, of the, the research focusing mostly on Addie and like, the process of the character in the book's creation. As you were talking, I was just doing a little bit of poking around just to, just to get an idea of sort of the, the scale of the accessory ecosystem that we're.

[Craig]

Oh, sure, yes, of course.

[Andrew]

So if you're on the official American Girl website, they've got, you know, they've got individual accessory packs. Addie's got a accessory pack with her cowrie shell and a handbag and A bonnet for like 18 bucks. There's currently an end of season sale going on [e-mail]. great. Then she's got a school outfit and a book that are 60 bucks. The Addie doll right now is 135 bucks.

[Craig]

My God.

[Andrew]

You go to the American Girl wiki for Samantha. Let me. This is, this is just in the now archived Be Forever collection. Samantha has a just outfit. Samantha has a frilly frock, bicycling outfit, fancy coat set, nightgown, holiday set, flower picking set, special day dress, travel coat and hat. In the, in the archive classic collection, she's got a Buster Brown dress. She's got a cranberry party dress. She's got a pinafore and rosebud circlet. It's got a plaid cape and gaiters. Craig.

[Craig]

Oh wow.

[Andrew]

An elegant hat and muff. Samantha's hairstyling set, ice cream parlor bed and bedding, bedtime accessories. Her dog, her bicycle, her parasol, her painting set, her garden gazebo, her travel bag set, her summertime treats, her outdoor serving set. You could spend thousands and thousands of dollars trying to put together a. Even if you were just focused on, on like the original three dolls or like the first five dolls, you would put a lot of money in trying to complete a set of anybody because there's so much stuff that's been introduced and discontinued over the many like phases of these dolls existences.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And I did like we did just want to shine a spotlight for a second on the fact that they are nice little books. But then also you can go spend $60 on a dress for your doll.

[Craig]

Yes. Yeah, it is. I am thinking about this largely as like when you were mentioning even how they would have to teach, like thinking about teachers who would teach the Addie book. Right. Like I am. I think this is a real two things can be true situation. Because as a little boy who was not interested in having an American Girl doll, these books were on the shelves in the library. I remember being read them by teachers when I was in elementary school or like other kids were checking them out. Like this was the thing that was just out in the eth in the ecosystem. And I didn't think about it. Of course, I was also 8. I didn't think about it as like, well, I gotta have all the stuff. But I did want all the Ninja Turtles. I did need all those Transformers.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

So like they were coming at us from all directions.

[Andrew]

I sure did want the Goosebumps Pogs and the special collection that came out around Halloween. One year that had a little canister of monsters blood in it. Did not work like monster blood works in the books, by the way. You are the just gross slime that dried out and got all over everything.

[Craig]

I did want to mention about the. About the dolls. In addition to these historical characters, they would go on to roll out what eventually became called Truly Me Dolls, which is like a very. Hundreds of dolls with different eye color, you know, hair color, hair texture, like.

[Andrew]

An American doll, American Girl doll character creator, kind of.

[Craig]

Yeah, yeah. And you can kind of. You can also do those ordered and stuff like that. But they also roll out these Girl of the Year dolls, which they started.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I read a little bit about these.

[Craig]

They're start in 2001.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Early 2000s. And they come out for like a year or sometimes two, and then are discontinued.

[Craig]

And then the most recent one, which I just found was interesting, is called Raquel Reyes. And she is a PA maker, which is like a Mexican, like ice pop, a pickleball player, a dolphin saver and a dance party dj. And she's going to a family reunion on the east coast where in the attic of an old mansion, she discovers the diary of a girl who lived long ago, her great, great grandmother, Samantha Parkington.

[Andrew]

So it's interesting, comes back around.

[Craig]

Raquel's whole story is about, like, you know, her, I think her dad is of Mexican heritage and. And her mom is descended from Samantha Parkington. And it's all about like, the different ways your family does and doesn't define you and all sorts of stuff. So it. I think that is like. It's an interesting little thing that they do. Of course, they're still probably charging hundreds of dollars for everything, but, you know, representation matters, I guess.

[Andrew]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Craig]

Tell me about Addie.

[Andrew]

Addie, meet Addie. Addie is a slave girl living in North Carolina. She lives with her. At the outset of this book, she's living with her mom and her dad and her older brother Sam and her baby sister Esther. And they are slaves during the American Civil War. 1864, I think. So they are like, they're.

[Craig]

They.

[Andrew]

Addie is. Addie is laying awake and listening to her mom and dad talk. And she. They don't know that she is. She's listening. But there's a debate between mom and dad about whether they should try to run away to secure their own freedom or if they should just try and wait it out because they know this war is happening. And you know, what if things go well for the union side and they can all Kind of, you know, in a less risky way, stay together and.

[Craig]

Sort of, oh, interesting.

[Andrew]

Wait out. But papa is saying they need to. They need to go because the Union soldiers are too far away. And he. He doesn't want to wait. And. And so Addie here overhears some specific aspects of the, of the plan to get free. They're going to like, cross a river and go past some railroad tracks. And like a few miles past that, there is a. A white house with red shutters. And there's a lady there who helps slaves get away from enslavement. You learn that Sam, Addie's older brother, did try to run away already and was whipped pretty brutally because of it. And they are. The concern is that. The concern is that the family's gonna be broken up and they want to stay together. And you know, they bring up, you know, what, what if, you know, there are a lot of. A lot of plantation owners who are hard up for money here at this point in the Civil War. Like, what if they get sold and the family gets separated and. And you know, just. The book is laying out all of these, all these concerns and all these arguments for you here in this first chapter.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

With Addie as the, as the sort of fly on the wall. Sure. Character.

[Craig]

Are you getting these, like, little accessory clip arts while this is also happening?

[Andrew]

Yeah, well, I don't think the first chapter is as in on the access.

[Craig]

I'm just double checking.

[Andrew]

Some of the clip arts are like what we get. So in the first one, we get a whip. We get a little doll that I think Addie would have. Addie would have had like a little homemade looking doll.

[Craig]

Sure, sure.

[Andrew]

And then in the. So, okay, that's chapter one. Chapter two. Sold is the name of the chapter. Addie is her. One of her jobs is to worm the tobacco plants and the. In the fields. Just take all the worms off the plants and squish them. Yeah, gross. And she also goes and gets water from the well and like runs it out to other. Other slaves working in the fields. So she goes to get water, she brings it to her brother Sam, and we get a little like a little interaction between them where Sam is looking very grown up and he is, you know, he is obviously chafing against his. His bonds trying, like, trying to run away. But he's also like her older brother and he like asks her riddles and they, they have a nice little sibling relationship. Addie then goes into the house to help serve dinner to. What's his name? Master Samuel and Master Stevens and some. Another white guy who is. Who's visiting. And Addie overhears that Master Stevens is in fact planning to sell a couple of slaves to make some money. And Addie realizes from the description of them that Master Stevens is talking about Sam and Papa.

[Craig]

Oh.

[Andrew]

And so she tries to run out and tries to warn them so they can get away now, but it's too late. And Addie is whipped by Master Stevens for, like, trying to hold on to Papa and keep him from going. And there's a lot in these. In. In the first two chapters, there's a. There's a bit from both Mama and Papa about, like, how Sam got whipped when he ran away and Mama and Papa weren't crying, and Addie got upset with them for not being sad. And she. And they told her about, like, sometimes there are just feelings you have to stay. You have to leave on the inside so that people can't, you know, people can't see them or people can't use them against you. And that's a bit about Addie. That's a bit for Addie, bit of how the book shows her maturing as a character as she is learning how to keep things on the inside and just be brave in the face of adversity.

[Craig]

Sure.

[Andrew]

So they develop a new plan. Addie and Mama decide they're going to run away. They're going to exist, execute the original plan, and hopefully they will eventually meet up with Papa and Sam in Philadelphia and.

[Craig]

Go birds.

[Andrew]

Yeah, Go Birds. They don't say go birds in the book, but it's implied.

[Craig]

It's implied everybody was wearing Kelly green. It's fine.

[Andrew]

Yeah. I mean, they're not trying to go to Pittsburgh.

[Craig]

No.

[Andrew]

And. But. But they have to make a hard decision because Esther is just one year old and she might cry in a way that gets them found out. And so Mama has decided Esther needs to stay behind with a couple of older. Older slaves who are going to take care of her for them.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

And Addie is understandably, really upset about this, but understands, like, that's a. This is. This is really hard, like, life or death stuff. And nobody is. Nobody is making any of these decisions lightly. So they are going to get disguised and they are going to, you know, to sort of hide their scent and to hide their. Their likenesses, and they're gonna run away.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Andrew]

So they do. Then chapter four is called into the Night. They. They run away. They encounter. Addie gets a. It's a little man's hat that she's told is Lucky. Oh, and, you know, if. If you could not buy this hat, I would eat mine. Jeez, I'll say.

[Craig]

Yeah, sure.

[Andrew]

But they run away under the light of the full moon, and they're kind of hiding in the wilderness. There's no scene where they are being chased down actively. Like, they're hearing the barking of dogs in the distance or whatever. I'm sure you can picture from other runaway slave narratives that you've encountered the way that that breaks down, but that doesn't really happen. They do. Mama can't swim, and so they do almost lose each other in a, you know, rushing in the river that they try to cross. But Addie manages to be brave and to save Mama. And then they. They get to the train tracks that they're going to. They see the train that Mama gives to Addie, the cowrie shell necklace, which is a shell that Addie's grandmother brought over from Africa when she was captured and brought to the U.S. okay. And mama's just telling Addie how brave her grandmother was and how brave Addie is now, too.

[Craig]

Great.

[Andrew]

They get to the. One of the little side illustrations is just a leech that Hattie picks up when she's swimming across the river. With Mom.

[Craig]

Not seeing that on the list of accessories here, I'm not sure you could.

[Andrew]

Buy the leech, but I do see the leech in the. They see it. They see a train go by. Addie gets excited because that means, you know, that they are. They're following this. This train track until it splits, and then they're going a little way further, and then they're getting to the. The house that they're. They're navigating toward.

[Craig]

Okay. I'm wondering if I. I'm wondering if I was read this book as a kid, because I'm trying to think of when I first learned about the Underground Railroad, and I'm having some, like, sense memory of my elementary school library as you're talking, and I just can't. I'm wondering. Nobody can answer this for me. It's just a thought.

[Andrew]

Okay, cool. No, that's what our podcast is for. It's just, like, our thoughts tumbling out.

[Craig]

Where was I when I may have audio recorded? I don't know.

[Andrew]

Addie gets excited and is running down these tracks, and Mama's trying to tell her, hey, don't go so far ahead. But she sees a fire, and she thinks, so this must be the light from that house that we're going to. It turns out that it's a Confederate camp. Oh, no, everybody's asleep. But there is a soldier who's up, and he's like, hey, boy, give me some water. And Addie realizes. First Addie is like, who's this boy that. That he's talking to? He must be right behind me. And then Addie realizes, oh, it's me in disguise with my cool hat. I'm the boy. And she goes and she gets the water. And then, like, lays down and waits for the soldiers snoring to return. And then she gets up and runs away. She narrowly, narrowly avoids good job being found out here. And then they go to. They find this house, and an old white lady ANSWERS, this is Ms. Caroline. There's a little dramatis person I in.

[Craig]

The beginning of the book. Yes. There's one in mine as well, of.

[Andrew]

Like, illustrations of all the major characters who appear. Ms. Caroline's initially mean because she thinks that they are people sent over from the Confederate camp, and she don't truck with them. Confederates.

[Craig]

Cool.

[Andrew]

But then she realizes that it's Addie and her mother running away from slavery. And she is like, hey, come in. I can. You can eat, you can rest, and then we'll get you onto the next phase of your journey tomorrow. That's the end of the book. Mama, we done it. Addie said softly, just like Papa said, we took our freedom.

[Craig]

Good for them.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So very. You know, we took our freedom. A very. As I. As I mentioned in the. In the research section is a picture of two people actively taking their freedom and not being, like, given it by some external force.

[Craig]

Yes. Well, and it struck me earlier when you said that there was, like, debate about should we try to endure until the war is over with the. With the hope that it goes the way we want or should we. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Because they hear about Union soldiers coming down. And I think by 64, I'm not as up on, like, the. The blow by blow timeline of the. Of the Civil War, but I think by 64, it was pretty clear you're.

[Craig]

More of a Roman Empire guy.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Than a Civil War guy.

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Craig]

I know this about you. It's fine.

[Andrew]

I just. I just don't. I like. Because I think. Because I thought that the history of rome was interesting 20 years ago. I don't want to be affiliated with people who think it's interesting now for dumb reasons.

[Craig]

I. I know. They took that from us. They took that from us.

[Andrew]

I'm not gonna let them take it from us. They just want to take it from us.

[Craig]

That's true.

[Andrew]

They took the. The snake flag.

[Craig]

I know.

[Andrew]

We can't have the snake flag.

[Craig]

Can't have the snake flag anymore. They took.

[Andrew]

They took fur trees. Like, I couldn't just have a cool, normal flag of a fur tree anymore.

[Craig]

I loved my fur tree flag. And now I never throw the flag.

[Andrew]

I can't have a red hat with any kind of writing on it now. I mean, I didn't want these things, but I could. Like, there is a time where I could have had them if I'd wanted.

[Craig]

I had the freedom to, you know. Oh, man. All right.

[Andrew]

What these people claim, all these dumb symbols. And then in the. And then after that, after the narrative part.

[Craig]

Oh, yes. You have the nonfiction section.

[Andrew]

Yeah. There's five or six pages of historical background.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

My understanding. So I read the. The version on the Internet Archive, which is either the original or one of the earlier printing reprints.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

And my understanding is that this section and a couple other things have been tweaked in more recent reissues. You know, there have been other illustrations that have. That have come in, and then they've. I think they credited the new current editions of this story. Credit the panel by name at the.

[Craig]

At the end. Oh, wow. Okay.

[Andrew]

Which is nice.

[Craig]

That's cool.

[Andrew]

But, yeah, you get a little History of America in 1864 is what it's called, and you just get little bits and pieces about slavery and the culture of black people in America at the time and how a lot of American music has its roots in that.

[Craig]

Sure.

[Andrew]

A little bit about the Civil War, which is. The war had many causes, but one of the most important was the disagreement about slavery. So, sure, we'll give them pass.

[Craig]

I don't think we'll give them a pass.

[Andrew]

I don't think they're. I don't think they're fully engaged in, like. Well, and actually, it was about states rights or whatever.

[Craig]

No, it was.

[Andrew]

Everything ran through states rights to what. Anyway, what is the Samantha?

[Craig]

The Samantha one is interesting because it's. You know, I mentioned it a little bit earlier. The thing I didn't really talk about is that it is almost all photographs because it's from 1904, so they have more of that available. And so you'll get like, just kind of this, like, row of servant women in their clothes. Like a shot.

[Andrew]

You get some individual portraits, a shot.

[Craig]

Of a lady doing laundry and how hard that must have been.

[Andrew]

Yeah. But most. Most of the illustrations in this are drawings. Are illustrations, because so much of it was, like, before photography happened.

[Craig]

Photo of, like, suffragettes and, like, women's movement stuff, which is kind of neat, and it just gives it a different flavor from the rest of the book. I did want to show you.

[Andrew]

Andrew.

[Craig]

I forgot.

[Andrew]

Show me. And then we'll then wrap it up.

[Craig]

We'll wrap up. The vignettes, which are. The little portraits in the Dramatis Personae were drawn by Renee Graff in my edition. I do just need to show you Eddie's portrait here.

[Andrew]

Eddie's a little stinker.

[Craig]

Eddie, the little boy who loves to tease.

[Andrew]

Alfred E. Newman.

[Craig]

Just a real. What me worry?

[Andrew]

Jerk.

[Craig]

Yeah, he's a pretty funny boy. Everybody else looks fine. But that's. That was. That struck me that was kind of interesting. So, yeah, these were the American Girl books. There's a lot of them. There's so many dolls. There's like, six or seven American Girl places still running.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

In major metropolitan areas.

[Andrew]

Maybe you can still buy things from the website. There's a sale on.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Miss it.

[Craig]

You can order your own. We have friends who I think did the American Girl place, like, a few years ago with their girls. It is still, you know, it's a thriving doll economy out there.

[Andrew]

I think you can. You can critique the project. There's no ethical consumption and all that. But, like, also, I don't know. He. Man toys didn't teach me anything about the Civil War.

[Craig]

That is true.

[Andrew]

Transformers didn't teach nobody nothing about nothing.

[Craig]

No. Transformers could have come with, like, six books about the type of car they turned into. That would have been neat.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

Or it would have. Or it would have sold nothing.

[Andrew]

Or it would have sold nothing. Do the Transformers. Do they have internal combustion engines or they. Do they have some kind of, like, nuclear power?

[Craig]

That is actually fascinating. They're powered by Energon, Andrew. So I don't know what happens when they turn into a Corvette and they start driving. Do they make, like, a V8 sound or I just.

[Andrew]

Yeah, like, do the. Is the. Is the transformer in there going mimic the noise of an engine or.

[Craig]

I've truly never thought about this, but it is, like. Makes a lot more sense to me now when I think about, like, how I can hear, you know, EVs come down my street or not hear them because they're often very quiet.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Henry can. Henry can tell the difference. But the. We were sitting on the stoop waiting for our pickup for summer camp when I realized that Henry could tell the difference just by listening to them.

[Craig]

Yeah. And it's like, huh, Would a Transformer just sound like an EV because he's.

[Andrew]

Running on energon then are the, you know, are the Transformers woke? Are they. Are they the original EVs?

[Craig]

Well, their carbon footprint. I don't know what their carbon footprint.

[Andrew]

It'S probably pretty big because of all the destruction that they participate in.

[Kyle Mooney]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And the, the energon harvesting that they do.

[Andrew]

You got to account for like, the manufacturing involved in all the. All that stuff when you account for the Transformers carbon footprint.

[Craig]

Yeah, that's true. That's true. Okay.

[Andrew]

Anyway, none of those toys never taught nobody nothing about anything. And American Girl dolls are trying. They're selling you $60 doll dresses, but they're also trying to teach you something.

[Craig]

They are trying, so. Yeah. Well, thanks for reading this book with me, Andrew. I had a good time.

[Andrew]

Yeah, me too.

[Craig]

Thanks everybody at home for listening. You can send us your thoughts on the American Girl dolls and their books. Send us an email overdue podmail.com find us on social media at overdue pod. Thanks to John, Aaliyah, Clara, Megan, Brad Hunter and more for reaching out in the past week. Most of you just registering your thoughts about Krampus.

[Andrew]

Everybody had a lot of thoughts, but they were. They mostly fell into a couple of pretty predictable veins.

[Craig]

Oh, golly. Is most of what the thoughts were. Oh, dear. Everyone getting excited to enjoy a glass of nog for the holidays.

[Andrew]

And some people being like, I don't think I'm gonna listen to this one.

[Craig]

Yeah. Which is also okay.

[Andrew]

Which is fine.

[Craig]

That's okay. Welcome back. Our theme song is composed by Nick Larandrus. Andrew, if folks want to know more about the show, where do they go?

[Andrew]

Overdue Podcast.com's Internet website. We have the schedule for the coming month, though I don't think we've figured out all of January yet.

[Craig]

It's almost done.

[Andrew]

Okay, good. That's probably waiting on me. Cool. I'll get to that.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

I'll get to it when I get to it.

[Craig]

I know.

[Andrew]

And all the links that you just talked about. And then. Patreon.com overdue pod it's just so hard for me to even conceive of 2026 as being a real thing.

[Craig]

Oh, I know.

[Andrew]

It's just going to keep on going after 2027.

[Craig]

Is the one that is really bugging me out. The number seven.

[Andrew]

Henry got a PEZ for Christmas.

[Craig]

When does it expire?

[Andrew]

2030.

[Craig]

No.

[Andrew]

I did not like seeing that date printed on a thing. No, did not like seeing it. Patreon.com overdue pod is the way to support the show directly, financially, and then you get some bonus stuff. You get access to the Discord community that responded so vociferously to the Krampus book.

[Craig]

Yep.

[Andrew]

You get our newsletter Dusty Bookshelves. You get our long read project the Silly Marillion, which just wrapped with a Watch of the 1977 Rankin Bass animated the Hobbit movie. And yes, we do talk about the Rankin Bass stop motion animated Christmas specials.

[Craig]

We do.

[Andrew]

It's the reason for the season, baby Mr. Heat, blister and what else? Other Stuff Ad Free Episodes Other Things patreon.com overdue pod Greg what are we doing next time?

[Craig]

So next week you can listen to us Consider the Consequences. We on our most recent Patreon monthly stream recorded an episode focused on Consider the Consequences, a book by Doris Webster and Mary Alden Hopkins, largely considered the first interactive game book. We chose several characters. I wouldn't use the word adventure.

[Andrew]

That book was wild.

[Craig]

It had some interest, it had some interesting things going on. A lot of things to say.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Craig]

So we made some choices and we learned a lot about people and ourselves. And next week you will get to hear it. Thanks to our Patreon supporters who joined us in the chat. Andrew gave you the URL of how you can join us for future hangout streams.

[Andrew]

Patreon.com overduepod that's it.

[Craig]

Enjoy that episode. We had a good time.

[Andrew]

Until we Consider the Consequences with you next week, please try to be happy. That was a Headgum podcast.