#167- Stop Pitching, Start Closing—The Secret to More Plumbing Conversions

Summary

Owned and Operated Podcast Episode #167: "Stop Pitching, Start Closing—The Secret to More Plumbing Conversions"

Release Date: February 6, 2025

In Episode #167 of "Owned and Operated - A Plumbing, Electrical, and HVAC Business Growth Podcast," hosts John Wilson and Jack Carr delve deep into strategies for enhancing conversion rates in plumbing businesses. This comprehensive discussion covers budgeting challenges, the impact of seasonal changes, effective sales techniques, and innovative cost management strategies. Below is a detailed summary capturing all key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. Business Growth and Strategic Partnerships

John Wilson opens the conversation by highlighting his company's impressive year-end performance despite industry-wide challenges.

• Key Point: Achieving 46% year-over-year growth by partnering with Service Scalers.
• Notable Quote:
  • John (00:14): “They've helped us drive best in class SEO, best in class PPC and dominate LSA and GMB marketing.”
  • John (01:17): “So make sure you check out service scalers.com. Sam and his team over there is just a bunch of killers.”

Insight: Strategic partnerships, especially in digital marketing, can significantly propel business growth even in competitive and fluctuating markets.

2. Budgeting and Cash Flow Challenges

The hosts discuss the complexities of managing budgets versus fulfillment plans, emphasizing the uncertainty that comes with fluctuating monthly targets.

• Key Points:
  • January's budget was set at $2.4 million, with actuals landing at $2.3 million.
  • Balancing between beating budget targets and meeting fulfillment plans can be confusing without clear financial strategies.
• Notable Quote:
  • John (02:07): “We did beat budget missed fulfillment plan. So I really don't know. It’s kind of confusing.”

Conclusion: Clear financial planning and possibly seeking external financial expertise can help navigate the discrepancies between budget expectations and actual fulfillment.

3. Impact of Seasonal Changes on Business Operations

John and Jack explore how weather fluctuations influence their service calls, particularly distinguishing between the stability of plumbing services versus the variability of HVAC.

• Key Points:
  • Plumbing services remain relatively steady, even during unpredictable weather.
  • HVAC services experience significant fluctuations, with extreme cold leading to increased emergency calls.
• Notable Quote:
  • John (06:07): “Plumbing fluctuates less.”
  • Jack (06:35): “I also think still a down month though.”

Insight: Understanding seasonal patterns is crucial for resource allocation and managing workforce demands effectively.

4. Enhancing Conversion Rates in Plumbing Services

A significant portion of the episode focuses on strategies to improve conversion rates, especially during slower months with fewer service calls.

• Key Points:
  • Importance of maintaining or increasing average ticket size while improving conversion rates.
  • Implementing a structured call process to better engage with customers.
• Notable Quote:
  • John (09:26): “If your closing rates normally 50, you see four jobs a day, you sell two jobs a day.”
  • Jack (10:55): “We're spending a ton of energy on increasing our conversion rate just to be better.”

Conclusion: Enhancing conversion rates requires a balance between quality interactions and strategic upselling without overwhelming the customer.

5. The Importance of Root Cause Analysis

The hosts emphasize the necessity of identifying and addressing the root causes of issues rather than merely providing quick fixes.

• Key Points:
  • Conducting full system evaluations to uncover underlying problems.
  • Avoiding superficial solutions that may lead to repeat issues and customer dissatisfaction.
• Notable Quote:
  • John (23:07): “We have to really hone in on, like, good listening, good options.”

Insight: Addressing root causes not only resolves immediate customer issues but also builds long-term trust and reduces repeat service calls.

6. Sales Techniques and Full System Evaluation

John shares best practices for engaging customers effectively during service calls, focusing on listening and providing tailored solutions.

• Key Points:
  • Implementing steps such as greeting, exploring the problem, and presenting quality options.
  • Training technicians to ask probing questions and listen actively to customer needs.
• Notable Quotes:
  • John (14:06): “Are we talking to the customer? Are we listening to the customer? Are we hearing what they want?”
  • John (17:20): “So how much time are we spending listening? Are we asking like, hey, what do you want us here to do?”

Conclusion: Effective sales techniques rooted in active listening and tailored solutions can significantly improve conversion rates and customer satisfaction.

7. Implementing Automated Outreach with Hatch

The conversation shifts to the adoption of automated outreach systems to bolster outbound marketing efforts.

• Key Points:
  • Transitioning from manual dialing and traditional outreach methods to automated multi-touch campaigns.
  • Benefits of using platforms like Hatch for consistent lead engagement.
• Notable Quote:
  • John (20:15): “With Hatch, you get automated multi touch outreach across text, voicemail, drop email and a ton more.”

Insight: Leveraging automation tools can enhance lead nurturing processes, ensuring no potential customer falls through the cracks.

8. Cost Management Strategies

Jack and John discuss significant cost-saving measures implemented within their operations, particularly focusing on centralized purchasing.

• Key Points:
  • Restricting technicians' access to credit cards to reduce unnecessary expenditures.
  • Centralizing purchasing decisions to control inventory and expenses effectively.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Jack (29:25): “We now have our techs no longer having access to credit cards or POS.”
  • John (30:12): “The fewest amount of human beings that can buy stuff within your business, the better.”

Conclusion: Tight control over purchasing processes can lead to substantial cost savings and prevent budget overruns.

9. Training and Workshops for Technicians

The hosts highlight the importance of continuous training through workshops to refine technicians' skills in customer interactions and problem-solving.

• Key Points:
  • Offering "Breaking5" workshops to train technicians in effective sales and service techniques.
  • Emphasizing call-by-call management to identify and rectify blind spots.
• Notable Quotes:
  • John (24:46): “We are thinking about running a call by call workshop because you are someone is constantly like helping you along.”
  • John (32:50): “If you start getting, if you start doing this model and what we found out the hard way is...”

Insight: Regular training ensures that technicians are equipped with the latest best practices, leading to improved service quality and higher conversion rates.

10. Community Building and Ongoing Engagement

Towards the end of the episode, John and Jack discuss the value of building a strong community among their workshop graduates and maintaining ongoing engagement.

• Key Points:
  • Graduates of the "Breaking5" workshop remain actively involved in the community.
  • Ongoing support and interaction foster a collaborative environment conducive to continuous improvement.
• Notable Quote:
  • John (34:25): “It's cool to have a. You know, it helps build our community.”

Conclusion: Fostering a sense of community among team members and workshop participants encourages knowledge sharing and collective growth.

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Final Thoughts and Takeaways

Episode #167 of the "Owned and Operated" podcast offers a wealth of insights for plumbing, electrical, and HVAC businesses aiming to enhance their conversion rates and overall growth. Key takeaways include the critical role of strategic partnerships, the necessity of thorough financial planning, the impact of seasonal changes on service demand, and the importance of effective sales techniques rooted in active listening and root cause analysis. Additionally, adopting automated outreach tools and implementing strict cost management strategies can lead to significant operational efficiencies. Continuous training through workshops and fostering a strong community further support sustained business success.

For more information and to access the workshop resources mentioned in this episode, visit www.ownedandoperated.com.

Transcript

[John]

What are the steps of a call? A lot of techs do a really great job is like talking about the different options they have.

[Unknown]

We have spent under 50% of what we spent last month.

[John]

The fewest amount of human beings that can buy stuff within your business, the better. Wilson just wrapped up the year in the low 20s and we were pumped. I mean, most of the industry did not have that same level of success. And when I think about who was a huge partner for us, like, top of the list was service scalers. We've been working with service scalers for a couple years now, and they've helped us drive best in class SEO, best in class PPC and dominate LSA and GMB marketing. They've been a huge partner for us and we're really grateful for that partnership because it's helped us to take down 46% year over year growth. And as we think about our budget next year, we're aiming for the low 30s. And one of our most strategic partners is going to be service scalers. They're going to help get us there, they're going to help us stay ahead of AI. They're going to help us keep our SEO relevant. They're going to help keep us on the top, exactly where we want to be. So make sure you check out service scalers.com. sam and his team over there is just a bunch of killers. So thank you, service scalers, for your partnership.

[Unknown]

Welcome back to owned and operated. We have John back in the building. What's going on, John?

[John]

Dude, good to be back. It's January. We're doing okay.

[Unknown]

I'm having trouble taking John seriously at the moment. He's rocking his indoor shades for all you YouTube folks that cannot or can see him.

[John]

Yeah, no, I look great. I. My wife told me about. My wife told me about this, like, thing that I can apparently buy contacts for a lot easier than through my eye doctor. So I got my first set the other day, and it came with these sunglasses that make me look like I'm 90 for free.

[Unknown]

And I am a deal.

[John]

I am owning this look. I'm really vibing with it.

[Unknown]

Next week I'll bring my. My elderly shades in so that we can both rock them.

[John]

Yeah, dude, I'm going to, like, legitimately use these. I feel like. I feel like I look pretty good.

[Unknown]

There you go. Well, January.

[John]

January 29th.

[Unknown]

Yeah. How's it going?

[John]

Yeah, January's been okay. So budget was 2.4, I think, and I think we're gonna land 2.3 or about the same.

[Unknown]

I think we'll be within 10 off a budget on. It's just slightly shy over last year, over our break even. But not to expansion goal that we were hoping. That being said, not. Not angry about it. Not angry about it at all. So really happy. Scared shitless though, going into February. So I hate February is from a. From a financial standpoint, isn't. March is probably the worst month though. Not from a like, but from a cash flow cycle. Right. Because all your bills from February hit in March. So technically I have like four weeks before I, you know, cry in the corner.

[John]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

But definitely, yeah, not excited. It's. It has gone from 3 degrees to 60 degrees in like a week.

[John]

Oh, whoa. That's crazy. It's. It's still 30s here. So we still have a few more weeks of 30s.

[Unknown]

That would be nice. Yeah. No, we hit 61 today, so it's like nice and sunny legitimately yesterday.

[John]

I thought that happened to us last year.

[Unknown]

Might get our first no cool call. Like, there's a chance that we bring in our first no cool.

[John]

Oh, my God. Yeah, that happened last year for us in February. 70 degree in February. It was awful. And I'm sort of deciding how to handle this. So if somebody listening is like, way more mature at managing budgets than me, shoot me a dm. But we, right now we have two budgets, which I don't know that I love. But one budget is the hey, this is what I think is going to happen this year budget, which January is like 2.2 million. So we are going to beat that, which is cool. But we also do a fulfillment plan every month and it's always going to be a little bit different because it's based on accurate staffing instead of budgeted staffing from a month ago or like a year ago. And that is 2.4. So I'm trying to figure out how to manage and like, celebrate wins. If there's kind of two different goals. Like, we have the capacity to fulfill $2.435 million. Our budget is 2.27 or something, which we will pass that. So it's like we. We did beat budget missed fulfillment plan. So I really don't know. It's kind of confusing. I've asked other people about it and other people don't seem to be doing that. And I find them not doing it to be really confusing.

[Unknown]

So, yeah, I don't have an answer for you. That's definitely somebody with a larger finance background than myself, whoever.

[John]

If you're smart and you're listening to this, send us a message.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Especially at like 2.3. Like, I, if you mess that up, that, that's a big difference.

[John]

But yeah. So, yeah, January feels okay. February good, good and bad. So we do this like cash out sheet. And cash out is like, it's basically our cash flow projections and our cash flow for February looks really good. One of the interesting things that happens when you get. I don't even think it's when you get larger because it's as a percentage of dollars. It's, I think the same. But when you hone in on buying, you can get rebates.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John]

And the rebates become ridiculous.

[Unknown]

Bingo.

[John]

So for us, like we have hundreds of thousands of dollars of rebates, which is essentially free cash coming in February.

[Unknown]

So that's what we planned as well. So we have, I think it's like 30k that's going to hit from last year's rebates in February from a cash flow perspective as well as we're selling a large piece of equ. Equipment that should hit in February as well. So, I mean, I'm with you on that one. I mean, that's the planning that we undertook to focus on rebates at the end of last year and then focus on, hey, when, when are we going to close this, this piece of equipment we no longer use out?

[John]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Let me ask you a question though. So this is purely selfish curiosity, plumbing. Is plumbing also pretty terrible in February or does it save it? Because H vac historically is absolute garbage.

[John]

But yeah.

[Unknown]

Does plumbing kind of help reduce that burden?

[John]

Yeah, like plumbing fluctuates less.

[Unknown]

I also think still a down month though.

[John]

Overall, 10 tends to be. But, but some of that is like days. Working days. Right. Like how many working days are in the month?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John]

This year I actually don't think is that bad this year there's 20 working days in February, but there have been, there have been years where there's like 18 or 19. So just from a working day perspective, it's just the shortest month, which for us, we do $110,000 a day. That's a lot. You know, you, you lose a hundred grand because someone decided February should be 28 days.

[Unknown]

Yeah. They should have known that they're messing with the trades.

[John]

Yeah, like, come on.

[Unknown]

Come on, man.

[John]

Come on.

[Unknown]

Come on. Who plays?

[John]

Come on. Yeah, I, I do. The larger we've gotten, the more I've understood like people just running like arbitrary 30 day budgets instead of monthly because it does feel a little bit more consistent. And so to change gears Plumbing tends to be steadier. The standard objection that we start getting this time of year is like, oh, I want to wait for tax money.

[Unknown]

Yeah, no, we, we've heard that as well. But I'm, I'm very glad that the, oh, Christmas holiday, holiday season objections over because that one is rough to overcome.

[John]

Yeah, they all tend to slow down a little bit. Drains get slow when it's col. So this is a slow time for drains. It does start ramping up in April. The ground gets really wet. Tons of downspout calls. Electric actually kind of gets weird depending on if there's snow or not. Like if there's a ton of snow, electric is cooking because that ice brings power lines down. But if it's too cold, electric stops dead because nobody wants to turn their power off because they're. That's controlling their heat. So we, we had this amazing sales month in January for electric, but the install is like 200 grand behind because we had this week in the negatives and nobody wanted to turn their power off because like what, you know, it's negative 20.

[Unknown]

You turn your power off for a day and you're absolutely.

[John]

Frozen pipes. Yeah, frozen pipes, which is what happened. We had a ton of frozen pipes. So. Yeah. So plumbing and plumbing is just kind of consistent. The, the big thing that we work hard on this time of year is our conversion rate. And we like, we went into it heavy this year because we know like, hey, we're gonna have less at bats this time of year. If you're used to running four calls a day, you're probably going to run three. And that's how this, that's just like how this goes. Now we're going to really fight to get you those four, but that's our standard. So you have one less opportunity every single day. So your conversion rate has to cover that. You have to be able to step it up. So we've been spending a ton of energy on increasing our conversion rate just to be better. But also focused on Q1.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I mean that, that's the big deal, right, is if you're going to drop to three calls, you need to cover that somehow. And that covering is making sure that you're selling higher average tickets and then that you're actually converting on more jobs.

[John]

Yeah. And just from like, you know, to dummy it down even more, if you're going to see if your closing rates normally 50, you see four jobs a day, you sell two jobs a day. If your closing rate is 50 and you see three jobs a day, you're only selling one and a half.

[Unknown]

So what are you focusing on though? Because, right, the. There's a few different ways that people look at it. They look at it from an average ticket point of view. They look at it from a percent conversion rate because, right, if you converted a hundred percent, but that 100% is like average ticket of 190. What we tend to see and what we're trying to fix on our graph is as conversion rate increases, your average ticket is dropping. And that's the opposite of what you want, right? You want your average ticket to stay steady and conversion rate to go up or your average ticket to go up and conversion rate to go up. And so we've been fighting that kind of from the beginning is, oh, this person has an amazing conversion rate. But yeah, he has half the average ticket. Of course it's going to be amazing, right? If you're giving away free this and free that, of course the customer's gonna. Gonna quote, unquote, convert at a lower rate. So what, when, when you're looking at that, how do you get the graph to go up into the right for both?

[John]

Well, we're spending a ton of time on is quality of options and like, presetting the call. And really like call by call. Management in as a whole is built around this. What I'm gonna say is like, sales 101 stuff we might've even said on the podcast before, probably. But it's all the little things that add up to that conversion rate. So the little things is like, are we talk, Are we talking to the customer? Are we listening to the customer? Are we hearing what they want? One of my best examples of like a terrible call is we do this secret shopping thing once or twice a year where we bring out a competitor. We secret shop. Like, hey, like, what are they doing better? What are they doing worse? We had a secret shop last year, and funny enough, it was actually somebody we interviewed for like a job. The tech that showed up. So we, we declined bringing him on. And this was like a month later. But it was just sort of like a funny coincidence. So anyway, so this guy came in and it was to like, look at a toilet. So, hey, we're gonna come in, we're gonna go through the, the whatever. We get the options at the end written on a piece of paper. And the options were like, toilet, which is why he was there. And then he had never talked about anything else. He just like came in, looked at the toilet. He was like, great, I'm gonna, I'll Come back with a price. He came back with this. So he's got the toilet repair or toilet replacement. I don't think there's a repair. And then a water heater.

[Unknown]

Just like a freaking water.

[John]

Yeah. Which, which if, like, if the customer asked you to look at it or if you ask probing questions, like, if you, like, did anything. I'm like, okay, he didn't even go in the basement.

[Unknown]

That's the best.

[John]

It was crazy.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John]

Like, he didn't. He literally did not walk into that basement. He didn't even. He doesn't even know what water heater they have. And he gave them two. He gave them a water heater, like a 50 gallon and a tankless. It was wild. So I think in my point in saying this is. It's a lot of the little stuff that stacks up. So how much time are we spending listening? Are we. Are we asking like, hey, what do you want us here to do? Like, why are we here? Hey, you're here to look at my toilet. All right, great. So we can repair it, we can replace it, we can upgrade it. Like, there's three options. Awesome. And that company, probably like us, has a three option rule. You can't leave without three options. But the problem is that those are like three fake options.

[Unknown]

And nobody's holding that tech accountable. So that he's just slapping those options in there and then someone.

[John]

And it's written on a piece of paper, which I'm sure somebody got to save some money. But, like, that company doesn't even probably know what options that tech presented until.

[Unknown]

I mean, the one thing that I will say, if you start getting, if you start doing this model and what we found out the hard way is, you know when your techs are giving BS options because the customer starts calling in and goes, is this an invoice? Why are you guys charging me? Why am I paying? What is this about? This and this. They start asking all the questions because they, they get a. An invoice or an estimate sheet, and the estimate sheet has, you know, water heater. And they say, we didn't. Why is there a water heater on here? So it's. It's pretty easy to find out if your texts aren't doing the proper procedure. That being said, definitely. I mean, we've gone through this before a few times, but making sure that the questions being asked are pertinent to the job at hand.

[John]

Nextar does, but, like, so if you're in one of these other groups, they all have a version of this. You can Come up with your own too. But like, hey, what are the steps of a call? So nexstar's got the greet step, which is just like, hey, what's up? I'm, I'm John. I'm here to check out your thing. The explore step is the second one and it is important because it covers all this. We're like, hey, let's go explore. Let's look at the problem. Can you show me where the water meter is in case I need it? Can you show me this? Can you show me that? Can walk me through your issue. Why am I here today? And really, like, spending time trying to understand, like, why did they spend. Take time out of their day? Because then a lot of times they'll just walk you through it. I was on a ride along last week, and the guy I was with did a really great explore step, and all he really did was like, he's like, hey, come on, let's go. Let's go take a look at the furnace. And the homeowners, like, walked us through everything that was going on. And like, he did a great job of explaining what his pain point was. And he was like, hey, I know it's old. When I called you guys, I was thinking about replacement already. And like, the door got opened without us having to do anything. Now granted, it also was a cracked heat exchanger and the hole was like, like liter fist size. It was kind of. It was really kind of scary, honestly. Yeah, but it was interesting because that was a really effective explorer. Like, hey, let's go together. Let's look at this. And then as you're talking, you start building options in your head, and those options should be relevant.

[Unknown]

But.

[John]

But that's how you increase conversion rate is you. You just literally listen to what people want and then you offer them what they want, what they ask for.

[Unknown]

What's interesting there too, is that I find a lot of sales. One of the keys to sales which is missed sometimes with the. The technicians is. And we talked about this with Joe. Joe C. I forget his last name.

[John]

Yeah, yeah. Service mvpd.

[Unknown]

Yeah. He was talking about the entire emotional sale aspect, which made us reevaluate quite a bit of what we did. Because there's an importance there. Right. That was also a great building Rapp step. Right?

[John]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

They're sitting there, you're listening to the customer. You're actually putting what the customer wants. You're taking the time to make the customer feel heard. Like there's an entire emotional connection that happens between the technician and the homeowner. Versus the technician going, hey, what's the issue? Oh, furnace not working, goes downstairs by himself. Tinkers bang. Some things goes upstairs and goes, oh, cracking heat exchanger. We're gonna have to cut off your unit or you buy a new one.

[John]

Right.

[Unknown]

Which is what happens a lot of times is, is they skip this entire, hey, asking questions. Let me hear what's going on with you. What's your situation? What are you looking to do today?

[John]

Yep.

[Unknown]

So very interesting. So you did this ride along. Awesome. The technician went through the options in his head. I'm sure he, he then flipped the unit. But on a non flip, maybe even a lesson. Kind of obvious, you know, let's go back to that toilet example. You have the repair, replace, upgrade. I mean, what, what, what are you having? The technicians, what kind of questions are they asking to maybe open doors into other realms?

[John]

I think a lot of it. So on that same day, we, I just rode along for the whole day. On that same day, we went to a furnace with a weird smell. And we got there and it was a weird, it was, it was a weird smell. It's like, all right, hey, this is kind of weird. Um, what do we got cooking here? And he did a really great job just like asking probing questions like, hey, what room do you smell it in the most? Like, what's the smell like? We actually couldn't smell it at the time when we first got there. And like, hey, what's important to you? And he did a good job of just like bringing up like, hey, I'm not here to force anything on you. But like, this is an option that exists. Like this product exists. And it was a very, like, low risk way to present it. Now I will say that there was some feedback I gave later, but it was basically like, hey, yeah, you've got a weird smell. Here's, here's a couple things that we can do. And after I investigated the problem, it was a 50 year old humidifier that had basically rotted from the inside. There's a ton of mold inside the humidifier. So, like, valid problem. So, hey, I think we start with the duct cleaning. This thing's been blowing mold around. Let's clean out the ducts, sanitize them. You can either replace or get rid of that humidifier. But that thing does. If you want the smell to go away and you want to breathe clean air, that should come out of there. And finally you can put the Cadillac thing on, which is this UV air purifier. And so like you've got a 700 option. You have a 1600 doll option and you have a 1500 dollars option which is the air, the UV light. And she ended up, I think $2400 later she did the first two. And I think he did a. I think he did a good job. Now I will say what a lot of techs do a really great job is like talking about the different options they have. What's really helped can increase conversion rate after like, hey, oh yeah, you can do this is you do eventually have to ask for the sale, which like, yeah, yeah. But it doesn't have to be intimidating because a lot of texts like, I don't think it's hard selling. It's like, hey, here's the options I presented. Which one do you want to move forward with? Yeah, and it's just like that last sentence because it was kind of funny. Like we ended up leaving that job where he did such an amazing job presenting options. And I was like, you know, we actually didn't ask for the sale. We just didn't say like, do you want to do this? We just left. It was kind of like a weird way to end it. And then our inside sales team ended up closing it like a couple hours later. Earlier this year, we started an outbounding campaign and we really didn't know where to begin. So we were using dialing on the phones, we were sending text messages, we were trying emails, tried a couple different softwares and ultimately we ended up with Hatch. Hatch has been an awesome partner for us. We started with them about five or six months ago and we've just continued to ramp. Every month we add three or four more automations. And my personal favorite thing about working with Hatch is Hatch comes out of the box ready to go. With Hatch, you get automated multi touch outreach across text, voicemail, drop email and a ton more. So every single lead that you have gets worked, every invoice that you leave gets retouched and rehashed and it's freaking awesome. Check out use hatchapp.com/oa.

[Unknown]

Oh, I find that that's a case in a lot of times where people are have low, low conversion rate is they don't ask at the end because they're scared of the actual close. They're scared of the objection or the no or how to overcome that objection. So.

[John]

Or they're used to flipping, which is what I've seen in H Vac a lot.

[Unknown]

Really?

[John]

Hey, I don't, I don't have to close. I flip it to the Comfort Advisor. The Comfort Advisor closes But so they never gained that skill of like how to ask for the close. Because that is a skill.

[Unknown]

Well, I mean, the close there is the flip. And it's an easy. Because it's a zero dollar, right. You don't have to ask for money. You don't have to ask for them to agree.

[John]

You want to talk to my teammate.

[Unknown]

Exactly. But at the same time, right, it's a different type of flip. It's a different or it's a different type of sale. It's. I still consider it, you know, a decent close because you're getting to the final what you wanted. You did bring up some really interesting points. I'd like to, to kind of like round this out real quick is. It's interesting because when you. We talked to Avoca, right, The. The gentleman. Do you remember Tyson? Thank you. Tyson was talking a lot about how or. Excuse me, it wasn't Tyson. It was Sebastian with gorilla. And we. He was talking about. Right. The best comfort advisors, they ask questions, they slow down their cadence. And I find that, you know, once you're using those same type of tools and you realize, oh, actually I should be asking questions. I shouldn't be telling the consumer about this, this, and this. I should be really focusing on, hey, what about this smell? It bothers you. Where do you smell it? Just like you were mentioning. It really ends up driving that point home and getting you closer to the conversion versus going in, I smell this. And tell, tell, tell, tell, tell. You have to ask those probing questions to, to make them feel heard and to, to get to the bottom of it.

[John]

It can be like, softer than that. It can also just be like, hey, what's the outcome you're looking for here? Like, okay, I want the smell to go away. Okay. After the smell, let's say we solve that. Like, what do you want to do after that? Like, do you care a lot about purified air? In this case, she had a newborn, so, like, yeah, she did. Right. Like, that's really important to her. But I, I think it can be pretty low lift and pretty. Almost like social over coffee. That's my personal way to sell is just like, what do you got going on? I bet I have a solution. Let's talk about it.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And the other cool thing that I, that I noticed from your story or your, Your case study example was that what you ended up doing, which I feel like a lot of technicians miss. And if you're having trouble getting to a point or where we had trouble specifically, I can't speak for every Company where we had trouble getting to a point to offer was the, the issue was that not all technicians were looking for the root of the issue.

[John]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So for example, right. They show up, boom, it's a bad or it's, there's a leaking faucet in the house. Right. We'll stay with plumbing. There's a leaking faucet. They, they come in, okay, you just, there's your repair place upgrade on your faucet, boom, done. And they step out. Mind you missed the entirety of the issue. The issue not wasn't necessarily that the faucet was leaking. It was that the PRV is bad. And so the pressure on the house is 110, 115 and we left. Not only do we have a warranty on the back end of this because this is way over pressurized and it's going to leak again, but B we missed the potential to do the right thing and have a win, win, win situation. Right?

[John]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

The technician wins because he offered the prv, he makes more money. The company wins because they generate more revenue and the consumer wins because they got not only their leak fixed, but they got their pressure fixed so that the entire tire house is covered. And so what we implemented was called the full system evaluation is we always focus on our call by call. Managers are all focusing on what is the actual root of the problem. Like what causes that smell. Oh, you could just go and do a I wave and a duct cleaning but that wouldn't have actually solved the issue because you still have a old 50 year old humidifier. Just like dumping mold into the house. Yes, it probably would have been clean. It would have been UV sanitized and you wouldn't smell it because the eye wave ions and all this kind of garbage.

[John]

Yep.

[Unknown]

But it didn't fix the mold.

[John]

Right. Still mold.

[Unknown]

Do you use that full body?

[John]

Something I'm thinking a lot about is like obviously we do the Breaking5 workshop. Check it out on an Operated.com workshop. Nice plug, but thanks. What, what we are thinking a lot about is running a call by call workshop because I think a lot of this, like a lot of this. How do we get to the root issue? The way we solve this and coach on this is every single call like you're talking to your now you can graduate out of it, but someone else is helping you catch your blind spots. Cuz even if you're the best person in the world, if you see 20 calls a week or 25 calls a week, you're gonna have a blind spot on one or Two of them. I'm like, oh dude, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, I didn't even think about the. Oh yeah, I came here to look at a foster. I wasn't thinking about the prv. Yeah, I wasn't. Or like the expansion tank or whatever. Just wasn't even on my brain. I was here thinking about this. Really easy to get blinders on. So I think that's a big benefit of the like having a type of call by call structure is because you are. Someone is constantly like helping you along.

[Unknown]

Well, especially like you said it was negative degrees where you were last week. I mean, yeah, when you're running six or seven calls, the full evaluation always isn't at the top of the mind. But it's so important making sure. Right? Because you, you walk out of the house, you didn't win. Even though you, you solved the customer's band, you band aided the customer's immediate problem. It wasn't a win. And you'll be back there for a warranty on that same faucet. Most likely the fact that somebody's there sitting with you actually making sure that hey, did you check the prv? Like did you go through and find the route of why this was leaking? Did you check the other faucets to make sure they weren't leaking? Because that's the last thing that you need is to walk out of the house. And then that one's, they call you back, you fix that one and then they go, well why do all these keep leaking? And yeah, they call another company out and then now you guys are in, in trouble. So it's super interesting. A call by call workshop would be very, I mean I probably would attend just for my own sake. I think it'd be really helpful.

[John]

Yeah, there's a few things we do that we think are like really unique. People just have a ton of questions about them. But like call by call, the way we do call by call is very unique. The way we do this sales install model for plumbing electric is very unique. Honestly, the way we do warehousing is very unique because the breaking five is obviously like it's really good. We're on our third one. Like third sold out. Like that's really cool. I'm glad we're like helping people. That's cool. But yeah, we're thinking about these last like, okay, this is interesting. Sales in sales install model is really interesting. Here's exactly how to do it.

[Unknown]

That's definitely. So I mean to circle back around like that is how we Helped our team go from struggling and really trying. Like, hey, what's this other? Like, what do we need to add? You know, we focus on repair, refurbish, replace. We don't do that. And then maybe a premium option, but really it's questions. Hey, you know, you're changing out this toilet. Are there any other toilets that. Are these lowboys that you wanted to change for? For different ones? Yeah. Sorry. John just put on his back is his. His stun of shades inside makes me giggle. And so, but the, the full system evaluation is what really helped us. I mean, how can you. How can you truly do a service and build value for that customer?

[John]

And that's the explore. Call it whatever you want. That's like walking through, like, all the stuff.

[Unknown]

Yeah. That's also how we hire too, surprisingly, is we. We try to make sure that the person has the mindset that they would naturally do a full system evaluation. There's a lot of plumbers who we brought out and they said, oh, yeah, we just.

[John]

What.

[Unknown]

What do you do? You snake the drain and then get. Get paid and leave. And I'm like, no, no, like, it's like root cause.

[John]

It's like, yeah, why?

[Unknown]

Why did it clog?

[John]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

And most, you know, it makes sense to me, but for a lot of people, it doesn't then. And what we found is our best hires have actually been people who have sat there and said, yeah, well, you know, I'd probably check the drain after for roots or if it was uneven or if there was a break or something, you know.

[John]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Because they understand that there's a cause and effect versus just, oh, snake the drain and go. And yeah, you're missing something there.

[John]

Conversion rate, especially when there's less calls on the board, is sort of the ultimate. The ultimate thing because budget's still roughly the same. And I know for us, we've been really, like, honing it out over the past month or two, but we're spending even more time focusing on it now because there will be a little bit less calls in Plumbing Electric over the next couple months or there's going to be more membership calls. So we have to really hone in on, like, good listening, good options. Like, is this something that they want? Is this something that they need? Did they bring it up? How did it come about? Or did we just walk in the house and assume they needed a tankless? Which is like what that one guy did, which is crazy.

[Unknown]

Speaking of that big update, I know this is extremely off topic, but a couple months ago, we were talking about how we. Or actually the first of the year, we were talking about how we implemented our no charging or our techs no longer having access to credit cards or pos. We had to do it through a purchaser on our team.

[John]

Okay. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Purchasing from the front line.

[John]

Love it.

[Unknown]

And forcing them to utilize in stock what we already have.

[John]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

We have spent under 50 of what we spent last month.

[John]

Oh, dude. I know.

[Unknown]

Under 50.

[John]

I know. And.

[Unknown]

And on top of that. So we spent 50 less.

[John]

Yep.

[Unknown]

On. On, you know, cogs. But also, like, we are. More revenue.

[John]

I know.

[Unknown]

Higher revenue, half the spend. Like, absolutely.

[John]

It's so ridiculous. I remember. And I think the thing that blows my mind about this the most, and this is like, I don't know how to. I don't know if I. We need to do, like, a deep dive, like, online workshop or something, because, like, this is just people. Yeah. This is ridiculous. But we had the folks from Radiant down in Austin up here, like, two weeks ago. It was Woody and a couple managers there, and it was a lot of fun. And they. Their guys still had full access to supply houses. They're $60 million. And I'm like, you could shave off 200 grand a month of expenses if you just cut access.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[John]

If people can spend, they will spend. And if they can't spend, they won't spend. And, like, that sums up purchasing. So the fewest amount of human beings that can buy stuff within your business, the better. And I would say that that is across the board. Like, we're right now. We did this in the field years ago. We're just now doing it administratively, where every dollar needs to go through a purchasing agent for, like, office supplies, everything, because it's all the same thing. And, you know, we're probably gonna save 20 grand a month from just, like, people not being able to just whip out a card. It is a huge deal.

[Unknown]

I had to. I had to. I had to do the update.

[John]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I'm so excited.

[John]

I'm glad. It was a win.

[Unknown]

Like, already a win. And. And not only a win. Like, sometimes it takes months to see wins.

[John]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Okay. We're doing this, and it's gonna take six months. No, this was month one.

[John]

50.

[Unknown]

And I'm. I'm looking at, like, my. My inventory and stuff. I haven't even seen a dent in, like.

[John]

Oh, yeah. Well, it's either a theft or truck stock. That's where it all goes. Theft or truck stock.

[Unknown]

And I think it just goes, like, it goes to truck stock or warehouse stock. Because you don't have warehouse stock, but we have, like historical warehouse stock that we're trying to burn through 50, 000. But if you have 50, 000 and. And it's supposed to be, you know, say 20% or 30% of 50,000 in. In stock inside a warehouse, and it's supposed to be, you know, 30% of whatever each job. I mean, it's like equivalent to a million dollars that we'd have to sell to equal what we have sitting here that nobody's using because they're just going to Home Depot. It's right there.

[John]

Right.

[Unknown]

So anyway, I'm off the horse, off my pedestal.

[John]

It's a big deal.

[Unknown]

It's a big deal.

[John]

It's a big deal.

[Unknown]

I just wanted to share that win. I'm really excited moving forward about this. And then we're going to start doing that is like cutting back the managers that get that too, because, I mean, I still see kind of where the holes are. And like you said, you know, when.

[John]

I mean, the less people that buy, the more control you get over it. And like, yeah, it creates some headache. It will slow some stuff down. But I know for us, when we did it, we did save $1 million that first year. It was $80,000 a month in saved, like, over expense. And like people just buying whatever they needed. Like, oh, we buy whatever we needed and became truck stock and then disappeared. Or it went back to the shop and it became shock stock and then it became outdated and $80,000 a month.

[Unknown]

Crazy. I was. I'm so surprised that I'm even allowed.

[John]

Yeah, everyone's convinced their purchasing is tight, and then they. Because if everyone can purchase, then everyone's gonna buy. Just stop it. Stop it.

[Unknown]

And that's what it is. It's like, it just. It just naturally flows that way. So nothing to do with conversions, but super exciting win.

[John]

Hey, man. Quarter one, cash. Cash is cash, baby.

[Unknown]

That's why. That's why we're pumped about it, because it's. We're actually like in a bad quarter, climbing our way up already.

[John]

So that's a huge win.

[Unknown]

Super excited.

[John]

Sweet. Well, conversion rate especially matters in Q1. Also, just outside of Q1 segue, if you want to hit up our Breaking5 workshop, I actually don't even know how many more seats there are available, so I should probably check with Kristen before doing more of these plugs. But check it out. I think. I think we're in the 20s and we cap it at 30, but 20 some people. So it should be fun. This is the fun part of, like, doing it. Like, this is our third one, so it's. It's fun. We have, like, 60 graduates now, which is kind of cool.

[Unknown]

The cool part, too, is, like, all these graduates come back, and I talk to almost every one of them. Not almost every. Probably 50% of them fairly regularly. Like, Thomas, he's on the Facebook page quite a bit. Shout out Thomas. He, like, he just texted me yesterday. He's like, dude, send me those Maverick pictures. I was like, ooh, Maverick pictures on my mind. My deal. I love my Mavericks. So I sent them over to him. Like, it's cool to have a. You know, it helps build our community. I know they all talk to each other. It's really exciting, and I'm happy to. To do this third one.

[John]

Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah. Owned and operated dot com. Hit the workshop button. It'll be fun. Kristen, if we're out of seats, I'm sorry. All right, thanks for tuning in.