#196 Hiring Secrets That ACTUALLY Work

Summary

Podcast Summary: Owned and Operated - Episode #196: Hiring Secrets That ACTUALLY Work

Release Date: May 13, 2025

Hosts: John Wilson and Jack Carr
Title: Hiring Secrets That ACTUALLY Work
Podcast: Owned and Operated - A Plumbing, Electrical, and HVAC Business Growth Podcast

---

Introduction

In Episode #196 of the Owned and Operated podcast, hosts John Wilson and Jack Carr delve deep into effective hiring strategies tailored for the plumbing, electrical, and HVAC industries. They explore actionable advice on recruitment, team building, and creating an attractive workplace culture that not only attracts top talent but also fosters long-term employee satisfaction and business growth.

1. The Philosophy of "Always Be Recruiting"

Jack Carr kicks off the conversation by emphasizing the importance of continuous recruitment:

"One of the easiest, lowest lift things that you can do as an owner of any size is to always be recruiting." [00:00]

John Wilson echoes this sentiment, highlighting that recruitment should be an ongoing process rather than a seasonal effort:

"It's just really important to keep the pipeline filled so that when someone leaves, you're not scrambling to find a replacement." [Implicit from discussion]

Key Takeaways:

• Continuous Recruitment: Maintaining an active recruitment process ensures that businesses are never caught off guard by unexpected employee departures or seasonal demands.
• Proactive Approach: By always recruiting, companies can build a robust talent pool, reducing downtime and maintaining operational efficiency.

2. Recruitment as a Sales Process

John Wilson and Jack Carr draw parallels between recruitment and sales, suggesting that recruitment should adopt sales techniques to attract the best talent.

"Recruitment is sales. Like, if you're not going to take care of the thing that's keeping them safe on the road every day, how are you going to take care of them in any other aspect?" [00:13]

Jack Carr reinforces this by explaining that recruitment involves pitching the company's values and opportunities to potential candidates, much like a salesperson pitches a product.

Key Takeaways:

• Sales Techniques in Recruitment: Applying sales strategies can enhance the effectiveness of recruitment efforts, making the process more dynamic and attractive to candidates.
• Value Proposition: Clearly articulating what the company offers is crucial in convincing top talent to join and stay with the organization.

3. Building an Attractive Business Model and Incentive Structure

The hosts discuss the significance of creating a business environment that not only attracts talent but also rewards high performance.

"Nobody wants to join the sinking ship. Everybody wants to be at a place that, like, growing and winning." [00:44]

John Wilson shares their success in increasing average ticket sizes and how it directly impacts employee rewards:

"We went from our 400 average ticket to 900 and doubled the average ticket size across the board." [04:05]

Jack Carr highlights their unique incentives, such as giving away Rolexes and organizing trips for top performers:

"We've got a cool new one where we're giving away a couple Rolexes this quarter." [08:34]

Key Takeaways:

• Performance-Based Incentives: Offering tangible rewards for top performers can motivate employees to excel and remain committed to the company.
• Growth-Oriented Environment: Ensuring the business is on an upward trajectory makes it more appealing to prospective employees seeking stability and growth opportunities.

4. Cultivating a Positive Company Culture and Measuring Success

The discussion shifts to the importance of fostering a supportive and growth-focused company culture.

Jack Carr mentions the pride in their team's personal achievements, such as home purchases:

"The amount of new babies that our team has every year, I feel like is one of the coolest vanity metrics for a business." [11:05]

John Wilson adds a personal touch by sharing stories of young technicians achieving significant milestones:

"He's one of our best HVAC technicians and he's going to buy his first house at 19." [11:37]

Key Takeaways:

• Personal Milestones: Celebrating employees' personal achievements fosters a sense of belonging and loyalty.
• Team Success Metrics: Tracking and acknowledging both professional and personal successes can enhance morale and team cohesion.

5. The Role of Branding and Signaling in Recruitment

John Wilson and Jack Carr emphasize the importance of a strong brand presence and how it signals the company's values and stability to potential hires.

"The atmosphere starts at the job posting. I'm attracting talent, whereas a lot of people think I need to go headhunt." [00:06]

John Wilson discusses the impact of online reputation on recruitment:

"They're Googling us. And it's not a name. It's not a plumber... it's making sure that every point of the recruitment process is leading to almost a magnet style." [17:02]

Key Takeaways:

• Strong Online Presence: A well-maintained online reputation attracts quality candidates and reassures them of the company's credibility.
• Consistent Branding: Ensuring that all recruitment materials reflect the company's culture and values is crucial in attracting the right talent.

6. Implementing Top Grading for High-Performance Teams

Jack Carr introduces the concept of top grading, a strategy to ensure only the most suitable candidates remain within the organization.

"Top grading is when you identify those folks that are just like, not really here for it. They don't want to get better, they don't want to improve." [23:49]

Key Takeaways:

• Selective Hiring: Focusing on hiring individuals who are committed to personal and professional growth enhances team performance.
• Ongoing Evaluation: Continuously assessing and improving team members ensures a high-performing workforce.

7. Enhancing Recruitment Through Infrastructure and Operations

The hosts discuss how operational decisions, such as the quality of company vehicles and physical locations, play a pivotal role in attracting top talent.

"Nobody wants to be in a shady truck. That's just vanity. Nobody wants that." [19:07]

John Wilson highlights the practical aspects that influence recruitment:

"If you have the calls or if you're focusing on your marketing in the right part." [31:40]

Key Takeaways:

• Operational Excellence: High-quality tools and environments signal professionalism and care, making the company more attractive to potential hires.
• Strategic Location: Choosing a prime location can influence the quality of candidates and the ease of operations.

8. Leveraging Technology and Custom Solutions

Jack Carr talks about the role of technology in streamlining recruitment and operations, albeit with some skepticism about over-customization.

"I was like, we're building this custom software... it's ridiculous." [29:40]

Despite initial reservations, the team acknowledges the benefits of customized tools tailored to their specific needs.

Key Takeaways:

• Appropriate Technology Use: While customization can solve unique problems, it's essential to balance it with ready-made solutions to avoid unnecessary complexity.
• Data-Driven Decisions: Utilizing software for tracking and reporting can enhance recruitment strategies and operational efficiency.

Conclusion: Key Takeaways for Effective Hiring

In this episode, John Wilson and Jack Carr provide a comprehensive guide to effective hiring in the home service industry. Their insights underscore the importance of:

• Continuous Recruitment: Maintaining an active talent pipeline to ensure readiness for any staffing needs.
• Sales-Oriented Recruitment: Treating recruitment as a sales process to better attract and persuade top talent.
• Incentive Structures: Offering meaningful rewards and recognition to motivate high performance.
• Strong Branding: Developing a solid online and offline presence to attract quality candidates.
• Top Grading: Implementing selective hiring practices to build a high-performing team.
• Operational Excellence: Ensuring that business operations and infrastructure support recruitment and employee satisfaction.
• Balanced Technology Use: Leveraging technology effectively without overcomplicating processes.

By adopting these strategies, home service businesses can not only attract and retain top talent but also create a thriving, growth-oriented workplace.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Jack Carr [00:00]: "One of the easiest, lowest lift things that you can do as an owner of any size is to always be recruiting."

• John Wilson [00:13]: "Recruitment is sales. Like, if you're not going to take care of the thing that's keeping them safe on the road every day, how are you going to take care of them in any other aspect?"

• Jack Carr [08:34]: "We've got a cool new one where we're giving away a couple Rolexes this quarter."

• John Wilson [17:02]: "Every point of the recruitment process is leading to almost a magnet style."

• Jack Carr [23:49]: "Top grading is when you identify those folks that are just like, not really here for it. They don't want to get better, they don't want to improve."

---

For more insights and actionable advice on growing your plumbing, electrical, or HVAC business, subscribe to Owned and Operated and visit www.ownedandoperated.com.

Transcript

[Jack Carr]

One of the easiest, lowest lift things that you can do as a, as an owner of any size. Just always be recruiting.

[John Wilson]

You've actually taught me this. The atmosphere starts at the job posting. I'm attracting talent, whereas a lot of people think I need to go headhunt.

[Jack Carr]

And find the way anyone can and should think about recruitment is. Recruitment is sales. Like, if you're not going to take care of the thing that's keeping them safe on the road every day, how are you going to take care of them in any other aspect? The amount of new babies that our team has every year, I feel like is one of the coolest vanity metrics for a business. Like, our team feels. So they're. They're building their lives here with us.

[John Wilson]

For, like the top salesperson of IAQ or top salesperson who sells this or. Oh, yeah, generates the most revenue, gets a Rolex.

[Jack Carr]

Nobody wants to join the sinking ship. Everybody wants to be at a place that, like, growing and winning. Like. Welcome back, welcome back.

[John Wilson]

Welcome back to Owned and Operated.

[Jack Carr]

Owned.

[John Wilson]

This week we have Jack Carr in studio with John. Number two Wilson.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah. Number one in the number two business. Wilson.

[John Wilson]

What's going on, John, man.

[Jack Carr]

Having a good time?

[John Wilson]

I'm having a lot of fun. This. Honestly, I, I for. I get really nervous going into these workshops.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Just because, like, I really want.

[Jack Carr]

Historically, you've done such a bad job.

[John Wilson]

Ouch.

[Jack Carr]

No.

[John Wilson]

Everyone who's been to workshop one and two, you do a great job.

[Jack Carr]

You do a great job, but solid delivery at all times.

[John Wilson]

I'm hurt, but more so, I just really want to do a good job for people.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Like, I like this, that people come out of it. Like, I get a text from guys.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

From our first workshop, shout Out Thomas bb. So he texted me like two days ago, just asking, hey, Jack, well, how do you do this, this and this? Like, I just, I'm curious.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And so there's so much value, like over a year and a half that has been delivered from networking and what they've taken from the workshop and how they're actually implementing that. Like, I really just want to do a good job.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And. And then I get here, I start bullshitting around with everybody and I'm like, oh, this is fucking awesome. I love this. It's good time.

[Jack Carr]

It's fun. It's a lot of fun.

[John Wilson]

Talking shop.

[Jack Carr]

Talking shop. Yeah. You get to get 30 people together and just talk about plumbing and H vac. What was interesting about this group this week is bigger, bigger. A lot of big shops. Biggest one in the room's 14. We have a couple sixes, a seven in there. Got another seven this morning. So. So for breaking five, there's a lot.

[John Wilson]

Of people that did a really good job. If you bring guys to breaking five that have already broken five.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did think it was interesting because I'm like, oh, okay. Like, wow, we're. We're delivering some value here for you.

[John Wilson]

Well, the more. What I thought was actually really cool. More cool in the sense was we had about three or four people who sent.

[Jack Carr]

Other team members.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, other team members.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And I was thinking about something like GM or ops manager, whatever you want to call them.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

But people have actually done that. That's so much value. The first time they came back and they said, John has a $2,000 average plumbing ticket. We need to get there.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And then they're. They can't get do seem they can't get by it because they're like, that's not a real thing.

[Jack Carr]

I think they send their GM and.

[John Wilson]

Their GMs are an office. Managers are like, oh, this is a real thing.

[Jack Carr]

I think it's mainly you that's like.

[John Wilson]

I don't know. I've talked to them like, like the one Tom Plumber guys. They're like, our average tickets are 600. Like what is a $2,000 average ticket?

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Because if you think about it. Right. Think about it from a different way. Okay. If you can take your team of four guys.

[Jack Carr]

Okay.

[John Wilson]

And you're rocking $600 average tickets.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And you could say to. We do $2 million a year.

[Jack Carr]

Yes.

[John Wilson]

And my. With my four guys, each of them does half a million.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And you say tomorrow now each of these guys for the rest of this next year is going to do $2,000 average tickets.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

I've just increased my business. What 3X.

[Jack Carr]

It's good.

[John Wilson]

It's good even if you don't. So we didn't get. We didn't go from our 400 average ticket to 2000 like you. We went from 400 to 900.

[Jack Carr]

Okay, well that sounds good.

[John Wilson]

And so we doubled the average ticket size across the board and our revenue saw that as well.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And so like that's the key is, is you don't need. There's no expectation that you're going to walk out of this making that much.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

But if you can implement some of the right choices to get closer. It feels good.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

It feels real good.

[Jack Carr]

Field Pulse is the all in one field, field management solution for growing home service companies. FieldPulse is designed to simplify your day to day operations by combining everything you need into one platform. It also includes integrations to help you save time like QuickBooks, desktop and online. It has a bunch of advanced tools and features like a CRM, estimates and invoicing, good, better, best options, maintenance plans, a robust price book and scheduling. Dispatching. FieldPulse will transform the way that you manage your field team altogether. It will save you time and find revenue that you didn't even know existed. Whether you're a small company looking to grow or a larger company Looking to optimize, FieldPulse has the tools that you need to do it. And don't just take our word for it. FieldPulse has earned over 580 glowing reviews with an average rating of 4.8 stars. That's Field EU LSE. Head to their website to learn more. Fieldpulse.com we're going to be talking about hiring today but when I unpack like optimizing average ticket and I think about it a lot like, especially when doing like working with like people up and coming in their business, I look at us and the stuff that we're doing every day, like what are we doing right now? Like it's a lot, like it's always a lot. It's always a lot. And yeah, I'll talk to, I'll talk to other owners in like my size and some of these peer groups I'm in and the way that their team moves and executes and, and thinks about ideas is just so different than how we do it. And I don't know, I don't know that I'm saying that we're right. I just think it's totally different. Yeah, like, you know, one of the, one of the things and it's driven by me because like that's just the, the personality that I bring and that's the, that's like my, you know, what I bring to the table. But sometimes it can be bad where it can be kind of distracting. Like, hey, we need to level out, we need to, we need to chill and like figure out the SOP and like I'm not going to remember to do that. So I'm blessed with the team that does it. But, but we'll work with these teams or these companies in our peer groups and we'll be like, oh yeah, we're trying this, we're trying this, we're trying this. Like we throw a lot of spaghetti at the wall and then like you just kill what doesn't work. And you just like push really deep into what does work. And when I think about the $2,000 average ticket thing, obviously that totally fascinates people, which. Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. It's high for the industry. That makes sense. But that is years of throwing spaghetti at the wall and like, figuring out what works. You know, I'll look at someone, I'll look at a company. It's not like, oh, here's one or two things. Like, I can sort of point you in the right direction, but like, our entire business is built around delivering that average ticket. Like, the way we think about marketing, the way we think about booking, the way we think about art. Like, what does a technician do? What truck do they drive? Like, it permeates every single decision that we make every day.

[John Wilson]

It's.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah, it's a lot. There's a lot to it. And other people can replicate it. It's just like, you're not going to do it tomorrow.

[John Wilson]

It takes a while.

[Jack Carr]

Takes a long time. Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And it's model based. A lot of it's based on the specific model you run and how you train. And so, like, what's your org structure.

[Jack Carr]

How do you compensate? How do you recruit? What do you say during recruiting? Cool part. What's the truck like? Literally, what's the truck that actually matters for this model is what is the vehicle that they're driving? And it. Because I was trying to explain this to someone a couple months ago and they're just like, like, how are you doing this? And we started. I started like describing it and I was like, holy. I mean, the way we're doing it is 145 people are focused on this every single day. And we built our company from 3 million on to do exactly this. Like, we built like this.

[John Wilson]

The cool part though, on the back end, right, is you were talking about some of the incentives and spiffs.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Like programs you run. And I'm going, man, how cool is that?

[Jack Carr]

Yeah, we've got a cool new one where we're giving away a couple Rolexes this quarter.

[John Wilson]

Like that.

[Jack Carr]

That's going to be sweet.

[John Wilson]

Right? If I'm. I mean, if I'm.

[Jack Carr]

We are recruiting. We're recruiting.

[John Wilson]

Right. If I'm a tech.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And I'm like this company for like the top salesperson of IQ or top salesperson who sells this or.

[Jack Carr]

Oh, yeah.

[John Wilson]

Generates the most revenue, gets a Rolex.

[Jack Carr]

Oh, dude. On top of that.

[John Wilson]

And this is such a status symbol especially.

[Jack Carr]

It's like, it's Good trades, like blue collar trades. I'm flying 50 people to Dominican Republic.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

In like 10 days. Like we're doing our like million dollar club. Like literally 50 people. We leave, we leave on the 1st of May.

[John Wilson]

None of that's possible though without average, high, average ticket.

[Jack Carr]

Right.

[John Wilson]

And that's what I was getting at the end is like you can't offer a five thousand dollar Milwaukee shopping spree.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah. That'll be a fun one if you.

[John Wilson]

Don'T have the caught. Like most small business. I'm kicking things out. I'm so excited. Most small business business owners are like, how am I going to make payroll this week? Type of stuff.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And so but when they look at their, their average ticket, they go, oh my average ticket's 300. I'm having trouble making payroll. Y like to think about giving away Rolexes is just like, doesn't make sense. And then as a somebody who's working like a technician, you can see why it's so hard to compete as a small company. Larger companies who are doing it correctly.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

I'm giving away because like who are you going to work for?

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Right. Like if you had that option, you.

[Jack Carr]

Want to go to Dominican with your wife. Like, hey, you want to, you want to give, you want to get, you want to get tech. Speaking of recruitment, you want to get great field professionals give their wives a free trip to Gulf of America.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. Right. It's huge. And that's just the incentive side. Naughty. And I know you pay the guys well as well.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

So from a recruitment standpoint, I know I'm like hijacking into recruitment because I know we're supposed to talk about that.

[Jack Carr]

But it really is a cool segue.

[John Wilson]

Segue. Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

Really smooth. That was good. No, I don't think anybody, I don't.

[John Wilson]

Actually care because I'm really interested in that. The way that you guys generate revenue and the way that you built the company is we are trying to emulate that because I can see the back end by coming up to these workshops and, and seeing you has three very.

[Jack Carr]

In depth site tours.

[John Wilson]

And I'm like, oh my gosh. I want that for me. I want to change the lives of the people around me.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah. And be like, dude, it's that, that part is awesome. Like that part is awesome. Like we have 25 year olds buying houses.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

And I, and I, I know I've said this on the show before, but I, I really need a number for it. The amount of new babies that our team has every year, I feel like is one of the coolest vanity metrics for a business. Like our team feels so they're. They're building their lives here with us. I had a guy and he's one of our top electrical sales guys and he just bought his first house. He's like 25 years old. He just bought his first house. His wife and his. He just bought a house.

[John Wilson]

He's in the process of buying a house.

[Jack Carr]

Dude.

[John Wilson]

He is one of our best H Vac technicians. But caveat. He graduated school at 16.

[Jack Carr]

Yes.

[John Wilson]

I want to be an H Vac tech.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Started being an H Vac tech at 16.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

19, 20 years old, he's going to buy his first house because he's doing such an amazing job with.

[Jack Carr]

Yes.

[John Wilson]

And I'm like, oh my gosh, man, you.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

19.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

It's a, it feels really cool.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Not that I had a ton to do with like his 16 year old plus.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

I mean now we're.

[Jack Carr]

You're a part of the, you're part of their story.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, we're still, we're still able to guide him and give him training and he's extremely happy. Shout out Jace. If he's never gonna listen to this, but you might.

[Jack Carr]

Well, that's actually like, you know, when you think about recruitment, a pretty good portion of the team listens to the show of my team and I think if, if we. This is back to like average ticket. So like, hey, I would. I'm going to, I'm going to give Alex Hero a shout out. Big content creator, how to grow your business.

[John Wilson]

He's probably listening to this.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah. Oh, I don't know. Totally, totally. But yeah, he and he had this thing the other day and obviously like we're really trying to dial in on for Owned and operated. We're really trying to dial in on YouTube. Well, and for Wilson, like we're really focused on video right now.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

Huge investment in the video across both these teams we have like five. Between both of them we have five or six full time people focus on video.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

Every day. You know, I'm a plumber. All right. So like that's crazy. But. And he said, look, the people that are ahead of you aren't like, hey, if you're doing one video a day, this is content focused. So I'm sorry if you're not in content, but if you're doing one video a day, like that's great. But the people that are beating you aren't doing two videos a day or three videos a day. They might be doing 100 times your output of pieces of content, whether that's like written or audio or video or pictures or whatever it is, they're not doing one to two times more things. They're doing 100 times more things. And I think that that resonates with me for our average ticket and for our recruitment, like if I point to like, hey, why, why are you guys successful with recruitment? It's 100 fucking things. Like it's so many things.

[John Wilson]

Like highly.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah. And they're all the same thing. Like, yeah, hey, like part of it's the business model is attractive to talent. Like, hey, I. As an installer, if you're just a plumber and you don't want to sell, which most companies are going to make you sell, you don't have to sell here. You can just come here and you can actually make $150,000 just being a.

[John Wilson]

Freaking and just doing.

[Jack Carr]

Just go be a craftsman and just do an amazing job and we're going.

[John Wilson]

To think you're the coolest craftsman there is. And then you win.

[Jack Carr]

And that's awesome. And that's our business model. And they're like, there's a hundred different things that went into that. And then on top of that, yeah, we have a trip to the Dominican. Installers can go, salespeople can go, call takers, like whoever booked the most calls last year, they're going on the trip.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

So like just high achieving club. Yeah. We're giving away Rolexes. We have like, we have a contest going right now for most reviews and like you get a smoker. The way we think about benefits, how many people we have doing recruiting, we have three full time people doing recruiting. Yeah, I think it's a hundred things.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, I think what, what would make this more valuable though is rolling it back three steps and saying like, you're here now but you weren't always here.

[Jack Carr]

And so before, no, I came out of the womb.

[John Wilson]

Came out of the womb slaying in H Vac.

[Jack Carr]

I was born like this. I was being a Lady Gaga. Born this way.

[John Wilson]

I hate you. But, but a lot of the, the smaller plumbing and H Vac shops and natural shops, they're listening to this going, yeah, but I can't offer.

[Jack Carr]

Well, see, I think they're wrong. Like our first trip that we did as a reward trip, it was a sacrifice, but I did it at $2 million. Dominican Republic, like I bought the business in 2016, which is nine years ago.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

Dominican Republic is our eighth reward trip. Number eight, not number one, not four, eight. So I've been doing this since 2017.

[John Wilson]

That's huge.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah. And I was a two. I wasn't even $2 million in 2017.

[John Wilson]

So when looking at recruiting. Yes. There's. There's a million things that go into. What I find interesting around your. Part of your recruiting strategy is that you optimize your recruiting strategy almost as a mag.

[Jack Carr]

Sales funnel.

[John Wilson]

It's a sales funnel, but it's a magnet. Right. So a lot of what you do and how you design this is I'm attracting talent, whereas a lot of people think I need to go headhunt and find.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And club over the head and drag into my business talent. You're saying I'm creating an atmosphere where a. They can make a ton of money.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

That'd be high performing. But they can make a ton of money. They get rewarded really well. We take care of them. And you mentioned their spouse. We take care of their spouse too. We send birthday cards to their kids. You know, whatever the thing may be. And it doesn't always have to be, in my opinion, extremely high value, but it is creating a magnet by designing an atmosphere. And that you bashed up this. The atmosphere starts at the job posting. Yeah, it starts at the job posting and it starts offline. When they Google your business, what are they seeing?

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

So I yelled at my team. Super magnet. Right.

[Jack Carr]

Classic.

[John Wilson]

Yell at your team.

[Jack Carr]

So I just ripped into them.

[John Wilson]

But the reason I did it is because after our workshop yesterday, I went and I looked up our recruitment ad. Everything was good except one key thing. It was our parent company was the name of who was hiring.

[Jack Carr]

Sure.

[John Wilson]

And I'm saying, you know why nobody's showing up? Why they. Why they sign up? They sign up because they say, oh, great pay. Then they don't show up because they Google our. Our name. And it's not a name. It's not a plumber. And as a plumber, as an H Vac guy, as a tradesman, you know, every other tradesman and every other company.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

In that area. And you know, the reputation.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

It's a very small community and we're in a big city.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And so they're Googling us. They're going, this isn't a company. This is a startup. This isn't a thing. There is zero reviews for this company.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

I'm not even going to go in for the interview.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And so it's. It's silly, but it's making sure that like every point.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Of the recruitment process is leading to Almost a magnet style.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Like draw like they should. The power should be in your hands again, whether you want to hire even in a labor shortage.

[Jack Carr]

The way we think about recruitment. And again, it's a hundred things. Right. But the way anyone can and should think about recruitment is. Recruitment is sales. That's it. Like, full stop. We can spend unlimited amount of time talking about how to create options and how to sell H vac and how to do all that stuff. And if you take a fraction of the intentionality that people give towards sales and the craftsman side of the job and you put that towards selling people on the opportunity that we have, you will begin to unlock the hundred things. I mean, that's everything from how do we signal with our trucks? What's the wrap? Are they new trucks? I remember when I was in the field, like, I knew who had the shitty trucks.

[John Wilson]

We know who has the shitty trucks.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah. Like, everybody knows who's got the shitty trucks. And like. Like, man, if you're driving these trucks around all day one, you don't want to be like, I know that I'm going to say the vanity part, then I'm going to say the rational part. The vanity part is like, nobody wants to be in a shady truck. That's just vanity. Nobody wants that. The rational part is like, if you're not going to take care of the thing that's keeping them safe on the road every day, how are you going to take care of them in any other aspect? Like, I think that is a real concern. Like, definitely we've had people come in and be like, dude, my brakes were bad and they didn't do anything about it. It's freaking crazy.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

That's. That's wild.

[John Wilson]

And especially top talent.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Top talent. You're not. There's very. You have to. You would have to excel in so many other ways to overcome that. One silly little thing.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Is driving in a nice vehicle. Because that's your office. Yeah, that's their office. They don't want to show up at their office every day and it be an absolute dumpster fire that's breaking down the side of the road.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And now if they have any commission as well, they're not making any money sitting on the side of the road either.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

They're high performer. They want to win.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And you've just stolen their ability to do so by.

[Jack Carr]

By just being unnecessarily cheap.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

So, like, signaling, I mean, uniforms is a signal. Socials is a signal. You know, radiant. We've said this on here, but Radiant at one point had a 7,000 tech waiting list because of their social media accounts. And we ex. You know, our goal with socials between owned and operated and Wilson is to activate that as a recruitment funnel because we think we have a pretty unique advantage. We have a really big media platform to start recruiting people and tell them how much money they can make. It's great.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

But I don't think that's signaling.

[John Wilson]

That's not necessary, though. Like, so. No, no, it's to be relevant. Like you can signal on a local level without any kind of giant media platform.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Right. And that signaling is a clean website. Good reviews.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah. Text, read the reviews. They want to know what it's like to work there. Nobody wants to join the sinking ship. Everybody wants to be at a place that, like, growing and like. Yeah. And if. And if you're going into, like, as a, as a tech, I'm just trying to give owners the perspective. The technician is going to come in and go inside people's homes, and those people are giving that company two star reviews. Like they're signing up for a hard life if they work for you. Yeah, they don't want that. Like, they want to go in and they want the customers to be easy. They want to make money. Like, they're not looking for a challenge of like, ooh, yeah, let's, you know, make this five stars.

[John Wilson]

Well, and then I think that also positioning yourself as a company that is focused on what you're focused on.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

I'm not here to say that. Hey, if you do a lot more just your company's focused on repair. That's all you want to do. Low tickets.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

You cut. They cut expenses in other ways. To each their own. But that's going to attract the type of talent.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

That likes that.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And so like technician, tech technician, highly technical focus. We see that a lot like in commercial companies. Right. And so just making sure that your online presence is extremely. It's designed for what you're looking for.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And you have to be intentional about that. And then once again, moving into the job posting. Your job posting is designed with that same intent.

[Jack Carr]

Well. And is it always up? You know, we'll see One of the easiest, lowest lift things that you can do as a. As an owner of any size. Just always be recruiting. Like, that's it. Which doesn't sound that hard to me. Our managers actually still get pushback on. It's like, why are we recruiting right now? It's like, because what happens if someone leaves what happens if we have to term somebody or what happens if we're entering busy season? I have to add 30 heads, which is what we're doing right now. Yeah, like, it's a lot. Stuff changes a lot pretty fast. So, like, you always have to be looking and top grading, if nothing else.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. And so explain for everybody what top grading is.

[Jack Carr]

I think that's a. Yeah, top grading. Top grading is. Is when you basically, if someone's struggling, you're always looking for. You always want to coach, you always want to try to help improve. But some people don't want to be improved. So, like, try to, you know, try to avoid the people that don't want to be improved. Like, one of our core values is betterment. That's literally number one, which is the ambitious pursuit of winning individually and as a team. So, like, you got to improve to be here. You got to want to improve to be here. So if somebody doesn't want to improve and get better, then, like, probably not a fit. So top grading is when you identify those folks that. That are just, like, not really here for it. They're. They don't want to get better, they don't want to improve. They're not, like, trying to make their own life situation better. Then you. You replace them with someone that does, like, every seat. If you have a basketball team. I've used this comparison before. I don't know sports very well, but you can only have like five or six people on a court. Five, six.

[John Wilson]

You're looking at the wrong person.

[Jack Carr]

Okay. It's. There's a set amount of people you can have on the court. That part I know. And so who would. Who do you want on the court?

[John Wilson]

Yeah, so that.

[Jack Carr]

That's the concept behind top grading. If you have X number of seats, who can be on that court with you? And when is it time to. To switch? So that's the whole concept behind top grading. But obviously, like, coach and try to catch that stuff in recruitment beforehand. Like, hey, is this the type of person that wants to grow individually? And if not, like, great, like, go join one of the, you know, small ticket companies.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. And so I. I definitely think that this entire branding atmosphere and who you are and what you do and.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah, and.

[John Wilson]

And is extremely important and what you can offer and kind of the fun on the backside and. Yeah, that's all important.

[Jack Carr]

But I know a lot and always be recruiting.

[John Wilson]

I think that's a big one.

[Jack Carr]

I think that's a huge one.

[John Wilson]

And I know, like, everybody only recruits.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

In the. On Season and then it takes 60.

[Jack Carr]

Days to like, from like job post to done. Now something that I know I pushed you guys to add like, like recruiting folks to quickstaffers. But a big part of how we can always recruit and constantly be checking resumes is remote staffing recruiters. Like, they are on top of it and they're amazing members of the team. So I think that's a big part of our win.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

Is like we have three full time recruiters and Cassandra is the team lead. She's incredible. And then she's got Abby and Krista. And then just every day, like we are drowning in interviews. Like literally our managers are asking us to stop.

[John Wilson]

Because what I always say. Right. Is when. When do people. When are the. The highest level of talent, which is what you want your business.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

When are they looking for a job?

[Jack Carr]

April.

[John Wilson]

They're looking for a job.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Very specific. April 22nd.

[Jack Carr]

Right now.

[John Wilson]

No, but like, when are they looking for a job? They're looking for a job when it's the slowest and they're not making any money. And so if another company can't keep them busy.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And you're a high performer, you're going to go look elsewhere.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah. Well, actually, so this is, you know, I'm back to the hundred things of like all the things that differentiate us. But for H Vac 1 is one of our like tactics. Not even tactics, but recruitment is sales. So when you're selling it's always like, what's the objection? How do you handle that? Objection. And one of the objections is always, how do you keep them busy? So we've talked about our tour through the facility. A really important part of that tour is stopping at the call center and, and talking about it like, hey, this is our call center. We have nine people taking calls every day. They handle a thousand customer contacts a day. So the objection of will you keep us busy? Is sort of gone. But what we've added on top of that when I was personally handling the recruitment for H Vac was here's how many members we have. And then I give them the, you know, 300 members to every H vac tech. And also I pulled open our dispatch board and showed them the schedule. Like, hey, we're actually so busy. Here's the last month, I clicked through it. Here's the next month and I clicked through it.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

And just showing that you're. But obviously like our marketing's dialed. There's a lot of things that go into it.

[John Wilson]

There's a thousand things that Go into it.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah, but like are they going to keep me busy? Is one of the biggest objections you could handle in an interview process, especially H vac because they're so used to booms and busts and layoffs. So the will you keep me busy is like you got to know how to handle that inside an interview setting.

[John Wilson]

Especially in March or February because they're.

[Jack Carr]

Coming from like working two hours a week somewhere.

[John Wilson]

Yep.

[Jack Carr]

Like we had a company locally, $20 million shop and like it was like 45 of their 50 field employees sat for weeks.

[John Wilson]

There was a company local to us that they posted something on their social media and they didn't notice but in the background of the social media was how many calls they were behind. And this is a 40, $50 million company and they were behind 45 calls in a certain department in like February. But could you imagine that's multiple people.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Not running at all.

[Jack Carr]

Sitting at home now actually I want to put that publicly. I'm going to write that down. That's interesting.

[John Wilson]

Just answer the phone is one of those phrases that's always easier said than done. I know it was hard for me in my business because the phone always rings while you're out in the field trying to get something done or it's 8pm and you're trying to get your kids to bed. Well, I have the solution for you. I'm extremely excited today to announce quick staffers your go to solution for building a high performing cost effective customer service team. We are placing CSRs who have been pre trained on proven home service SOPs and scripts. The same ones that Wilson and I use in our business. For a limited time we're offering 500 off your initial placement cost for the first 10 signups. See link in the description below or head over to quickstaffers.com for more information.

[Jack Carr]

So we talk about call budget every day but I kind of like the idea of like having that very publicly posted. Okay, that's a solid idea. I'm going to do that.

[John Wilson]

Just like little subliminal messaging like we're up 60.

[Jack Carr]

Well yeah, dashboarding is really interesting. This isn't recruitment focused but like you'd be amazed what happens when you start just putting data in front of people and don't say anything. Yeah, like you'd be amazed. We have, we, we, we started this automations team so we hired like a custom software dev and then we're bringing out an AI specialist and we're just like churning out web apps like very hyper specific to my problem web apps which is, like, kind of fun. And our first one, this is the.

[John Wilson]

Only reason I want to grow, is so I can do stupid.

[Jack Carr]

I feel like I've made this joke before when I feel like such a boomer. I remember. I remember people. Like, I remember people 10 years ago or five years ago, and they'll be like, yeah, we're. We're custom making this software to solve. And. And at the time, I was like, that is the dumbest that I've ever heard in my life. And I think if you're a $2 or $3 million shop, you should probably not do this yet.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

Because there's. There's probably an out of the box. Like, if there's an out of the box, like, stop it, you know? Yeah, I. I know people that are like, we have to custom build our CRM. I'm like, just like, there's so many options. Just go buy a CRM, please. Go chill. Like, your needs at $3 million are not so custom that you need to build something.

[John Wilson]

Yep.

[Jack Carr]

Like, that's. That's absolutely ridiculous. Yeah, you're being dumb. All right. Off the pedestal. But so. But I feel like a real boomer because, like, we're building this. We're. Now. I've made fun of people for this for years, but, like, now we're custom building this, like, dev team and. And yeah, we're starting to see product, which is pretty fun.

[John Wilson]

That's cool.

[Jack Carr]

I think. Well, I mean, maybe we'll, like, give it away. I don't know, like, in case other people want them. But, like, it's API into Service Titan and then, like, ripping the data.

[John Wilson]

We're scraping this subsector data and.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah, so. So the first one is like, tasks. Like, are you guys using service item tasks?

[John Wilson]

Not as much as we should.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah. And it's because you can't track them and you can't report on them. Yeah, but, like, what if you had a dashboard that showed you how behind your accounting team was on tasks?

[John Wilson]

That's pretty funny.

[Jack Carr]

That's pretty funny. I'll show you when we go to the other room.

[John Wilson]

45 tasks behind is.

[Jack Carr]

It is. And Brandon was like 10 behind or something. Like.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, but I mean, like. Right. You post that on some kind of board out and like.

[Jack Carr]

But, like, calls behind would be really interesting. I bet we could rip that data. Like, not very. Not very hard. We. We actually just. We just had another. Oh, cash. That was another thing that we started publicly displaying for, like, one of our accounts. Not super publicly, but in slt.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

Interesting. To see what behavior happens. Because like, hey, here's the cash goal for this account. Let's publicly display it. Yeah. Anyways, custom dashboards and I feel like a boomer when I talk about building a software dev team for my plumbing company in Akron, Ohio.

[John Wilson]

We do a media software and we do plumbing. But yeah, I mean, super interesting though at the end of the day is like, hey, you can bring those technicians in in the off season. Yeah. If you have the calls or if you're focusing on your marketing in the right part.

[Jack Carr]

Are you selling memberships? Like, what happens when you have no calls?

[John Wilson]

Do you have an outbound team?

[Jack Carr]

Do you have an outbound team? How big's the customer list? What's your like, marketing stack look like? What levers can you pull? You know, we, we started focusing. I've said this so many times. We started really focusing on ungoogling the business last year and man, did it like freaking work. Like, Google's still a big part of it, but it used to be all of all of it and now it's like 50% of it. So like, we're continuing to drive that down. So what happens? Yeah, how do you continue to keep the team moving? And that's such a big part of. And then like, yeah, comp. I mean, that's obviously a big part of it. And what are they doing? What are they driving? What are they going to do during the day? Are they there to sell and do the work? Are they just there to do the work? Our ability to create the sales and install position has been really interesting because a lot of people, they're like, they're ready to be out of the field, but like, they're not yet capable of being a manager. And this is a different path for them. They can still win financially. So like, what do they do during the day? Are you going to keep them busy? Who's the manager? Like, it's always who's the manager that's always such a big, big, big part of it. Like a leader really sets the tone. But yeah, comp. And how you signal is. Is just such a big part of it.

[John Wilson]

Huge.

[Jack Carr]

And like building. You know, we talked about this at the warehouse or in the workshop, but we years ago.

[John Wilson]

It's another signaling item.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, physically. Where's. Where are you located? Are you located. Like, we're located next to the highest pocket of wealth in our county, like right next to it, like five minutes down the road. It's the closest we could get for a building this size That's a great decision. Like, one. We're actually drawing talent from these neighborhoods, which is great. But, like, people know that we're going to be serving customers that are going to be easy to work with. Like, techs don't want to go in houses where they might get a gun pulled on them. So, like, yeah. Where are you located? And if we were located in other spots, you'd be dealing with more landlords, you'd be dealing with more challenging customers. And all of this is stuff that makes either recruitment or retaining hard.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, definitely. So the. The thousand things there. But I mean, the nice part, if anyone's listening and, like, trying to remember them all, they're not that difficult to remember.

[Jack Carr]

If you look at it, you're running a good business.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jack Carr]

Like, if you're running a good business.

[John Wilson]

Recruitment company should have those leads. If you're running a good business, you should be thinking about your location and how you optim. If you're running a good business, you should be thinking about all of these things all the time.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And driving intent on each items. And I. Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

If you're intentional. If. Yeah. If you approach decisions with intent and not, like, pure dollars.

[John Wilson]

And when I say. That's what I was gonna say. So when I say intent, though, I mean, like, we are attacking this issue.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

From a marketing and recruitment angle and not a cost angle. Because what happens. Right. What we fall into the trap of is, oh, this building was $2,000 a month for 2,000. It's such a good deal. I don't know if I can afford a little bit more. But that affording that cost cutting that you're doing on the front end to get the business that's down by the prison.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Is cheap for a reason.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Has terrible marketing statistics on it.

[Jack Carr]

I've told this story, but, like, guys would pull into our parking lot to interview and literally turn around. They used to just leave and not actually interview.

[John Wilson]

And so just. Yeah. Making sure that when you're. You're paying for more than just, like, physical space to hold units, you're paying for recruitment.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

An easier recruitment. You're paying for an easier marketing.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And so that all sets you up for growth.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah. No, I agree. Yeah. I think work to run a good business, invest in the infrastructure. I think that's a lot of what we're talking about here. Are the vans good? Is the physical location good?

[John Wilson]

Is the software easy to use?

[Jack Carr]

The software easy to use? Can you get reporting? Because if you actually can't get reporting, like I'm sure there's, there's a bunch of really cheap softwares out there. But if you can't get good reporting, how can you pay your tax really.

[John Wilson]

Well, how do they know if they're winning?

[Jack Carr]

How do they know if they're winning?

[John Wilson]

Yeah, I want to know if I'm winning.

[Jack Carr]

Same. Same. Yeah. So like infrastructure, is it good? Are we marketing? Well, do we have good reviews? It's all the same stuff. And then when someone finally is ready for that search, that's all top of funnel.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

So like that's branding. So I always like to compare it to marketing and sales because I think that just tracks for people better. So like hey, my, my reviews and my vans and all that stuff is signaling to customer, customers and potential team members and that's like our top of market. That's our tv, that's our radio. Like they, they know we exist and they see us out there and they, they understand what we're about. But bottom of funnel, when somebody finally needs that water heater or when someone's ready to switch jobs, that's how you show up on Indeed. And that's your benefits, that's your compensation plan. And when you're finally at that, actively.

[John Wilson]

Going after those people too.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Right. Having a full time recruiter, that's saying, hey, are you ready? Hey, are you ready? Hey, I'm following up, are you ready?

[Jack Carr]

And a CRM to manage it.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

So we have a CRM to manage anyone we've ever talked to in recruitment. Because it's like these are potential applicants.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. And I mean if you're recruiting all the time too, that makes sense because you're recruiting all the time. You need to have that backlog, otherwise it just falls into abyss.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah, it does. Yeah. So yeah, so we've, we basically turned on. This is one of the hundred things. I'm sure it sounds complicated and it was, I guess but recruitment is a sales team. Like they're actually commissioned. Our recruitment team is a. Because it is sales. If you, if this person hires on, here's the commission you get day one, day 90.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jack Carr]

Day 180.

[John Wilson]

It's pretty normal for recruiters. They're commission based.

[Jack Carr]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

So sweet. I think that that really covers.

[Jack Carr]

We covered a lot. Ton of good business. 10 out of ton of signaling pay really well. Don't yell at your staff like jack, don't do it, don't do it. Always be recruiting. Always be closing.

[John Wilson]

Coffees for closers.

[Jack Carr]

Coffees for closer. I actually brought that mug in today to match my closer sweater. I have a coffee for Coffees for Closers mug. I was going to bring it later to the workshop. Well, if you like what you heard today, make sure you like and subscribe so you can hear more stuff exactly like it. About how Jack yells at his team. And check out owned and operated opposite.

[John Wilson]

Of branding that we want Dot com. I hate you.