#208 The Mindset Taking This Plumbing Company to the Top

Summary

Owned and Operated - Episode #208: The Mindset Taking This Plumbing Company to the Top

Host: John Wilson
Guest: Dalton Hatch, DH Plumbing, San Antonio
Release Date: June 10, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode #208 of the Owned and Operated podcast, host John Wilson welcomes Dalton Hatch from DH Plumbing in San Antonio. This episode delves deep into Dalton’s personal and professional journey, exploring the mindset shifts and strategies that have propelled his plumbing business to new heights.

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Guest Background and Early Struggles

Dalton Hatch opens up about his tumultuous early years, sharing a poignant moment when he was on the brink of financial collapse:

Dalton Hatch [00:00]: "One in the morning, I'm standing in my shop and I'm like, so crying. Like, I got four, five mouths to feed. I got no, I'm down to like my last 500 bucks. I got a mortgage. Like, all the pressure, right."

Dalton reflects on his initial challenges, including personal struggles with addiction and a strained marriage. He emphasizes how these hardships nearly led him to mock his faith but ultimately redirected his path:

Dalton Hatch [03:20]: "Man, it ain't me. Like, like, I told you, I'm Christian. It's God. Like, God saved my life a year ago. And, dude, we've been, like, so blessed..."

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Turning Point: Embracing Faith and Business Growth

Dalton credits his turnaround to embracing his Christian faith and his focus on genuine customer care over aggressive sales tactics:

Dalton Hatch [05:39]: "Giving my company to God. He's the owner, I'm just the guy that asks him what to do. And he has been leading us down a wild path of success and growth."

He contrasts his approach with typical sales-driven methods, advocating for honesty and integrity in client interactions:

Dalton Hatch [05:39]: "We don't put sales as the most important thing. Like, we just take really good care of people... I'm not going to go to your house for a toilet flapper without putting a sewer camera down your clean out. Be like, you need a new sewer line. That's sleazy stuff."

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Business Operations and Team Structure

Dalton provides an overview of DH Plumbing’s operations, highlighting a lean yet efficient team focused primarily on residential services:

• Team Members:
  • Dalton Hatch – Owner and Superintendent
  • Walter – Journeyman
  • Matt – Tradesman
  • Andrea – Office Manager and Admin
  • Stacy – Customer Service Representative (CSR)

Dalton Hatch [16:38]: "We're doing mostly residential service... We don't do new construction or remodels because those jobs can be hard to make money on due to return trips."

Dalton discusses the importance of a strong support system within the company, including effective communication and leadership:

Dalton Hatch [59:50]: "Communication is huge. We have a company group chat where my guys communicate throughout the day, offering help and coordinating tasks."

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Growth Challenges and Mindset

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around the challenges of scaling a business while maintaining a healthy work-life balance and company culture. Dalton shares his anxiety about rapid growth and the critical decision to hire additional staff:

Dalton Hatch [78:44]: "I need to find a guy that can capitalize on those leads because the two guys I have can close 90 to 100% of their leads."

He emphasizes the need for intentionality in business decisions, particularly regarding financial management and marketing investments:

Dalton Hatch [38:11]: "Be intentional with your money, be intentional with your time... intentionality is huge."

Dalton also touches on the psychological aspects of business ownership, including stress management and coping with vulnerability:

Dalton Hatch [80:01]: "Dealing with overwhelming emotion, no matter what the emotion is, is, in my opinion, the hardest part of a business."

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Marketing Strategies and Financial Management

Dalton outlines DH Plumbing’s marketing strategies, focusing on a mix of PPC, SEO, local billboards, yard signs, and community involvement:

Dalton Hatch [66:34]: "We invest in PPC, SEO, local billboards, and yard signs. Recently, we've also started leveraging TikTok for social media marketing."

He discusses the importance of accurate financial reporting and budgeting, highlighting his journey to achieve reliable P&L statements:

Dalton Hatch [48:15]: "We finally have an accurate P&L, which has been incredibly comforting and has allowed us to make informed decisions about growth and investments."

Dalton also shares insights on lead generation and conversion rates, emphasizing the necessity of driving quality leads to support business expansion:

Dalton Hatch [50:35]: "Our booking rate is between 67-78%, which is solid. Knowing our numbers helps us make confident growth decisions."

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Advice for Aspiring Home Service Entrepreneurs

Dalton offers valuable advice for those looking to start or grow their home service businesses:

1. Be Intentional:

   "Be intentional with your money, time, and marketing. Study your business as diligently as you would study something else you're passionate about."

2. Focus on Customer Care:

   "Take really good care of your customers. Provide honest assessments and avoid sleazy sales tactics."

3. Learn from Others:

   "Follow and learn from experienced entrepreneurs in your industry. Implement proven strategies to avoid common pitfalls."

4. Maintain a Strong Company Culture:

   "Facilitate a positive culture by knowing your team members, providing regular feedback, and fostering an environment of accountability."

5. Avoid Comparing Yourself to Larger Competitors:

   "Don’t compare yourself to bigger companies. Focus on what works for your specific market and stay true to your business values."

6. Invest in Accurate Financial Management:

   "Ensure your financials are accurate and up-to-date. This transparency allows for better-informed business decisions."

Dalton also stresses the importance of avoiding unnecessary expenses and focusing on what truly drives business growth, such as effective marketing and investing in quality leads.

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Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Dalton Hatch’s journey with DH Plumbing is a testament to the power of mindset, intentionality, and genuine customer care in building a successful home service business. His transition from personal struggles to business success underscores the importance of faith, resilience, and a customer-centric approach. Key takeaways from this episode include:

• Mindset is Paramount: Embracing challenges and maintaining a positive outlook can significantly impact business success.
• Intentional Growth: Strategic planning and intentional decision-making are crucial for sustainable growth.
• Customer Care Over Aggressive Sales: Prioritizing honest and genuine customer interactions fosters long-term loyalty and business reputation.
• Accurate Financial Management: Reliable financial data is essential for making informed growth decisions.
• Strong Company Culture: Building and maintaining a positive team culture enhances employee satisfaction and productivity.

Dalton’s insights provide a roadmap for other entrepreneurs in the home service industry, emphasizing that success is not just about aggressive growth but about building a resilient, customer-focused, and well-managed business.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dalton Hatch [05:39]: "Giving my company to God. He's the owner, I'm just the guy that asks him what to do."
• Dalton Hatch [38:11]: "Be intentional with your money, be intentional with your time... intentionality is huge."
• Dalton Hatch [80:01]: "Dealing with overwhelming emotion, no matter what the emotion is, is, in my opinion, the hardest part of a business."
• Dalton Hatch [50:35]: "Our booking rate is between 67-78%, which is solid. Knowing our numbers helps us make confident growth decisions."

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For more insights and actionable advice on growing your plumbing, electrical, or HVAC business, visit www.ownedandoperated.com.

Transcript

[Dalton Hatch]

One in the morning, I'm standing in my shop and I'm like, so crying. Like, I got four, five mouths to feed. I got no, I'm down to like my last 500 bucks. I got a mortgage. Like, all the pressure, right? I was the guy that made fun of God. I made fun of Christians, like openly mocked Christians kind of guy. Like, it's yours, dude. I obviously can't do this. You're the last resort. And then the next day we've been booked. I truly believe that is first and foremost the reason. Secondly is just like, we don't, we don't put sales as the most important thing. Like, we just take really good care of people.

[Host]

Welcome back to Owned and Operated. Today on the show, I have Dalton Hatch from DH Plumbing in San Antonio. Welcome to the show.

[Dalton Hatch]

What's up, brother?

[Host]

This is going to be fun. This is going to be a lot of fun. As we sort of like gave you a tour around, you were dropping some stuff and I was like, holy shit. I want to dive deeper into this. If your books say you're making a lot of money, but there's nothing in the checking account, let's talk about CFO Made Easy. Most home service businesses hit a point where the money's coming in, but it's still unclear where it's all going. You've got a bookkeeper logging the past and a CPA filing your taxes with no one helping you plan the future. And that's where CFO Made Easy comes in. They provide part time CFO services specifically for trades and home service businesses. H vac, plumbing, electrical, roofing, you name it. They help you improve cash flow, maximize profit per tech, and make growth decisions with confidence. If you're tired of winging it financially and you want to see that bank balance grow, schedule a free financial insight [e-mail] or click the link below. We'll uncover what's holding you back and lay out a path forward. No fluff, no corporate finance. Speak cfomadeeasy.com it's time to grow with clarity. I had a friend out maybe two or three weeks ago.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And he, he's in one of my peer groups and really inspirational guy. And he was running a $200 million business. And I didn't actually know that until he came out. I thought he was running a $50 million business.

[Dalton Hatch]

Pretty big difference.

[Host]

It's a pretty big difference. And I was, and I, I just plain asked him, I was like, hey man, like, why are you in a peer group with Me, Like, I'm not. I'm not your peer. Like, I'm just plainly not. Like, you know, we'll do 30 something this year. So, like, what. What do you get from this? And. And he said something. I've just been like. I honestly reflect on it every day since I talked to him about it. And he said, look, the best way to draw inspiration is from the smaller companies because they're innovating, because they have to innovate. And. And I was like, fuck, that makes a lot of sense.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because, like, I. We have the resources to not necessarily have to innovate in the same way. So. Yeah. Like, hearing how productive your team is at the size you are is like, okay, you're in. You're doing something that I don't know.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I want to know what it is because you're innovating in a way that we don't know.

[Dalton Hatch]

I'm flattered.

[Host]

Well, I think. I think it's. I think it's great. I think it's. I think it's interesting, and it's the same. He came out here to visit and draw something from us, and I think it was just a different way to look at it, because I think you're here and you're like, all right, how can I learn it? But, like, fortunately, I get to do the same thing, which will be fun.

[Guest]

Yeah, I.

[Dalton Hatch]

Man, it ain't me. Like, like, I told you, I'm Christian. It's God. Like, God saved my life a year ago. And, dude, we've been, like, so blessed to the point where every day or anytime I pray, whatever, like, just. Thanks, man. Like, this is insane. Like, I'm not supposed to be here. I'm not supposed to be this guy. Like, before I found God, I. I was, like, cool. Like, I used to. My wife and I, we've been together since we were 15.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And I would tell her all through high school, like, I'm probably gonna die before I'm 30. I just always thought I was gonna die young.

[Host]

How old are you now?

[Dalton Hatch]

31.

[Host]

All right, well, you beat it.

[Dalton Hatch]

I'm gonna live forever.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah, you beat it.

[Dalton Hatch]

But. But it's. It's funny. That's a whole other thing, too. Like, being Christian, I'm not afraid of death. I'm just aware of death. But. But, yeah, I just, like. And it's funny, too, because I grew up in a great household. My parents are amazing parents. My dad, Jeff, My mom, Marlowe. Both teachers, very middle class. Like, lower middle class, kind of whatever. Justifies that in 2025. But yeah, yeah, giving, giving my company to God. He's the owner, I'm just the guy that asks him what to do. And he has been leading us down a wild path of success and growth. And I truly believe that is first and foremost the reason. Secondly is just like we don't put sales as the most important thing. Like, we just take really good care of people, share. We legitimately care about you. Like, we go to your house and you know, like sales coaches will teach you, will sympathize and empathize, like, well, yeah, duh, their house is flooded. What, like, what human being isn't already going to feel that way for them? You shouldn't have to train to be that way. Yeah, just be a good person. You know, we're not going to sell you something that you don't need in the sense of like, I'm not going to go to your house for a toilet flapper. And without putting a sewer camera down your clean out. Be like, you need a new sewer line. That's the cause. You know what I mean? That's sleazy stuff. But I'm not against, you know, the, the upgraded sales of options. Like you should be giving your customer options. They don't go to the grocery store and have one kind of peanut butter.

[Host]

To choose from unless it's Aldi. But I'd love to hear about the origin story of DH. You guys launched it in 2021.

[Dalton Hatch]

So we got the LLC in 21.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

But I didn't start actually working for myself till 23.

[Host]

Okay.

[Dalton Hatch]

So I, because I, I knew that's what I wanted to do and sure I knew. I've known for. Oh probably since I started in plumbing. So I started in plumbing right out of high school at about 18, something like that. Yeah, started right out of high school. I started in plumbing because my wife, girlfriend at the time, got pregnant with our first child in her senior year and my brother in law was a plumber at a service company and he was like, hey, you know, we need helpers, we need apprentices. So I was like, all right, cool. I'm about to have a kid, so time to go to work.

[Host]

Need money. Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, and Right. My wife graduated the day she graduated high school, moved in with me into an apartment and we just got after life and had a lot of bumps in the roads, had a lot of downs, mainly majority caused by me. And then at about 21 we separated for two years. I had fell into drugs and alcohol pretty heavily. You Know, worked through plumbing companies throughout that whole time. Like, I was chasing 50 cents here, an hour there, dollar there, wherever. I get more money because one, I'm poor. Two, I'm an addict. So I'm like, need more money for both of those things. But for some reason, like, I just knew I wanted to own something. I'm too high strung and I'm too control freak to work for anyone. I'm not good with authority. I like to be my own authority. Which was probably the reason I didn't come to God until I was 30 years old. Because having to accept that I have to surrender my life to God is like, I'm not doing that. I got this, you know, pride. But, yeah, so worked. Worked for plumbing companies up until I was 29. Yeah, 29. And then my. My buddy Cameron calls me. I'm super. I'm like, super competitive. Like, I still. I saw your shop today, and the first thing in my head was like, I'm gonna. And he said, he got here eight years. I'm gonna do this in seven. You're like, I'm just. I. I'll build a war in my head for no reason.

[Host]

Make it happen.

[Dalton Hatch]

I love it. And that's just. I just. I don't know. That's what drives me. I have to build it in my head. Yeah, go.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

But my buddy camera was like, I got an llc. I got my masters. Like, I'm going. And like, within five minutes later, I had an llc and I had a master plumber willing to rent me his license. And I told my wife, I was like, we're starting a company. If he can do it, I can do it. And so I was like, all right, I'm ready to go. And I did it. And then I was a superintendent for a plumbing company doing residential new construction, which I'll never go back to. That industry. Goodness.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Take the worst, dude industry.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

No money. Builders don't know what they're doing, but they're mad at you. It's just, yeah, I'll never go back to that industry. But. And then. So I. I started the company. I was doing jobs after work and on the weekends for, like, for only, like, three weeks. And I was. And I thought I was busy because I was running around, but when you look on paper, you're only doing a few jobs a week.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You think you're slammed. So I was like, I'm quitting my job. I'm good to go. We didn't get a call for three weeks, and I have four babies yeah. And a wife at home who does not, does not work. But she's a stay at home. Her job's harder than any job I've ever had. I'm with my kids for like one hour and I'm like, babe, I need you to come, please. And so three weeks, nothing. And I'm like, it's one in the morning, I'm standing in my shop, it's like an RV carport at my house. And I'm like so crying. Like I got four, five mouths to feed. I got no, I'm down to like my last 500 bucks, like a mortgage, like all the pressure, right? We, we, we're, I'm out there and I'm just like cry. And I, I, I was the guy that made fun of God, I made fun of Christians, like openly mocked Christians kind of guy. And I'm like, it's yours, dude. I obviously can't do this. You're the last resort. And then the next day we've been booked and then I still didn't even like fully surrender after that. Cuz after a week of that, I was like, well, I got it now. Pretty much like appreciate you. I got it from here. And then started getting slow again. I was like, okay, I see. My bad, my bad. And then just my little brother calls me one day. He's like, I've been thinking about going to church. I was like, okay, cool, let's do it. And I was driving home, saw a random church. I was like, cool, we'll go there. The moment I walked in that door, they have, they met me with so much genuine love and kindness. Like that's what helped me because I was looking for any reason not to go to church, not to accept God, not to be a Christian, right? I'm like, I'm going to go in there, they're going to piss me off and I'm going to go home and I told you so kind of deal. And it was opposite, it was amazing. And it's been amazing ever since. Got baptized, Mother's Day of 24. I baptized my wife right after I got baptized. And then a few months later I baptized my oldest, my 11 year old daughter. And God has taken care of us in a dramatic way. And yeah, but, but yeah. So been busy ever since and just been growing. Just, just doing the thing, man. 23, 4-1-23 was when we officially went out on our own.

[Host]

We're obviously giving God a lot of thanks and credit. What happened? And you've been rewarded, like that's how you're approaching us, which I think is great. What happens when things go bad now? Like, are you. Like. It's sort of like, how do you turn it around? Or how.

[Dalton Hatch]

I just don't.

[Host]

How do you leave like a personal stake inside there? Or how are you approaching that?

[Dalton Hatch]

I. It doesn't affect me as a. As like a bat when things go bad. I don't view it that way. It's just a. It's just another day. It's just something to get past, you know? Like, I don't stress about money. I don't stress when we're slow. I don't stress when we're busy. Like, I know he's. When do you cherish me? We're not really about anything anymore. Just because, you know, it's. I think it's. Matthew 6:34 is like. Or, no, I can't remember. But it's. It's pretty much just do not worry. And so I do that to the best of my ability because I fully trust that he will take care of us. I still do my job and what I'm supposed to do for my guys, for the company. But like, whatever happens, happens. If it's in his will to the company goes down, then the company goes down. I go back to work and being a plumber, you know. But I truly believe that this company was. Is my calling, what I was supposed to do, because it's the only thing I've really ever done that I'm good at. To the like. Good at in the sense of, like.

[Host]

Well, you just feels right. Yeah, there's results.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, yeah, it feels right. Like being able to pay guys more than anybody and change their life financially. Like, we just gave a kid going to a trade school. We gave him $5,000 in a scholarship. That was crazy. That was the most fulfilling thing I've ever had happen in my entrepreneurial career. Um, we donate money to causes constantly. Like, there's a gym that I go to in Bandera called Fire and Glory. And, you know, we're going to make shirts for them and we're going to supply barbecue for them. Like, that's. That's the stuff that makes me keep being a business owner, you know, Like, I don't. I don't really have an interest in money. It doesn't make me feel any kind of way it did just because I'd never had it. And then now I'm like, I like seeing what money can do for others more than like, my bills are paid, you know, I'm fine. I pay myself the bare minimum salary to live a comfortable life. I'm a pretty simple guy. My wife's very simple woman. She does not. She's not materialistic in any sense. I like blessing other people. I think that that was what I'm supposed to do with this, because I am blessed enough to be able to do that. That's what I feel, and I truly believe that. I just. I have a lot of. I mean, I like. My. One of my favorite movies is a John Wayne movie called True Grit, and I have it tattooed on my knuckles.

[Host]

Okay. Yeah, I was trying to read.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, they're a little faded.

[Host]

Okay.

[Dalton Hatch]

But. But, yeah, I have. I have a lot. I feel like I have a lot of grit. I'm very driven. I'm super. Like, let's go. Let's go. You know, my dad calls it my. My effort characteristic. I'm very comfortable with risk, very comfortable with. Let's just see what happens. It doesn't bother me. Like, I thrive on. I like pressure. Like, stress doesn't feel the same to me that it doesn't. A regular person stress is like, all right, let's go. Let's do it. Like, if we're slow, I'm like, all right, well, I'm gonna. I'll go find some work. We got. I've got it. Don't worry about it. Yeah, Like, I don't feel stressed the way, like, the normal definition of stress, if that makes sense.

[Host]

Yeah, I don't know that I do either, but it might be more.

[Dalton Hatch]

But yours is a little drastically different, judged by that warranty pile over there that might get. That might actually make me stressed.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What. How about we walk through the business a little bit? So, like, headcount revenue.

[Dalton Hatch]

Okay.

[Host]

What do we do? Like, what are the actual services that we perform?

[Dalton Hatch]

So almost, I would say, 99. Residential service. I'm super picky on the commercial service. Will do no new construction. Really? No remodels. Like, if you buy a mobile home and it's at your house, and we need to connect your sewer and your water line. Cool, we'll do that. But I've been burned so many times in the early days of, like, doing new construction remodels by people not paying or losing your butt because it's hard to make money on those jobs because you have to do so many return trips. But almost strictly residential service. It's me, a guy named Walter. He's a journeyman. A guy named Matt. He's a tradesman. And then I have Andrea, who is my Sister in law. She's my office manager, admin, like, does my, like, assistant stuff and handles, oversees the CSR and like. And then we have Stacy, who is our newest CSR. And then because I. I hired a second CSR knowing that I wanted to hire a third and a fourth plumber, so I was like, okay, well, I.

[Host]

Want two CSRs, one and a half.

[Dalton Hatch]

Stacy does all the phone calls and everything.

[Host]

Okay.

[Dalton Hatch]

And then Andrea kind of sees. Oversees the admin side of everything. Yeah, Like, I don't do well with laptop work. She pretty much does everything. She's account receivable, accounts payable, the whole nine yards. Right. And then she trained up, Stacy. And then once. Now that she's trained up, I'm, like, dumping money every month into marketing, trying to get more and more leads, more leads to get more guys. And now that that's working and that's going. Looking to find that third guy, possibly the fourth.

[Host]

Yeah, there was. I've told this story a lot over the years, but. So my good friend Anthony, he runs a plumbing company here locally. He was best man in my wedding. And we worked. We worked together in Wilson for like, first four or five years of our career, and then I bought Wilson. And then like nine months later, he went and like, similar to your story of like, oh, you did this so I can do this. So he went and launched his own.

[Dalton Hatch]

It makes it tangible when your friends do it. Like, it makes it like, oh, it's possible.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Instead of, like, you hearing about it.

[Host]

Yeah, I think so. I think so. So he went and launched his own. It's called plumbing excellence. And I. I remember. And you're in this sweet spot right now, and I'm. I'm just curious how this resonates with you, but there's like, these different plateaus in your growth.

[Dalton Hatch]

Right.

[Host]

And like, when you're at each plateau, you make a lot of money. Like, you just make a lot of money.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because, like, you are capping out the infrastructure for, like, what you've built so far. We are currently in a plateau right now, which. Which is good. We're enjoying that. Like, we're like, extremely profitable, which is a lot of fun.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

We are re entering our next growth phase, which, like, we're approaching cautiously because we know we've got. We've gone through, like, seven of these now, so we understand what we're about to do.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Comes with it.

[Host]

But I remember it was just like the wild experience for me. This was eight, nine years ago. So, like, the economics are different than they are now.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, of course.

[Host]

But Anthony had three plumbers, I had 10 or 15.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

I don't even know how many. And he was taking home more than I was.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because there's like the most money that you make in home service as an entrepreneur is the size that you are at right now. Like this is the most money that you will make.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Until you cross like 30 or 40 guys. Like it is a wild journey.

[Dalton Hatch]

I've heard this before and it's, it's crazy to hear every time I hear it.

[Host]

Oh yeah. Well, it's just the literal most money. Like.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And it's, it's crazy. There's just no over is. There's just, there's just no overhead. Like hey, you can. Because what could happen, it just depends on like what the goal is. But you don't need a manager yet. You need one or two CSRs. In theory, those CSRs could, could be remote. Like a lot of people running.

[Dalton Hatch]

They work from home a lot. I let them work from home.

[Host]

I mean even offshored.

[Dalton Hatch]

Oh yeah.

[Host]

Or like, or you know, AI could start to come into play. You don't, you don't have an office. So like there's no like infrastructure cost for real estate.

[Dalton Hatch]

We have a, a tiny office, but it's for the address on Google.

[Host]

Totally.

[Dalton Hatch]

And it's a like a 6x6 office that Andre and Stacy will sit in.

[Host]

100%. Yeah. Most of my friends that have been. Yeah. It's like they've done storage units. Right.

[Dalton Hatch]

Or like I've had the bigger shop. I rented a bigger one.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

The bigger.

[Dalton Hatch]

Thinking that's what I needed to attract guys.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And all I did was waste my money.

[Host]

Waste money, Right. Totally. So yeah, it's, it's wild. And I, I remember, I remember. I mean it was years like because Anthony, it was, it was a really funny like thought experiment because Anthony kept his company the same size. Like three guys. He actually just started growing it maybe six, seven months ago. So for eight years he's run a three person plumbing company. And cash flow just like.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Like just all like.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I'm in like we've been, I've been like, you know, doing this. But like we only started making more than him like a year and a half ago. Like two years ago is wild. It's wild. So, so it sounds like you've heard this from others too.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, yeah, I have.

[Host]

Like what, what's the take? Like how do you think about that? Because right now you are cash flowing probably like Cr.

[Dalton Hatch]

It makes you really want to hone in and realize what your goals are. Like, are you cool with where you're at and being there for a while?

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Or do you want this next step enough to understand that this is.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

Or is the next step even worth it? Because I do, I do think there's a tangible, like, why do it at all.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

I think that that's like, should be a real.

[Dalton Hatch]

Sometimes I think about that.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, so. So that's why Anthony. That's why he ended up growing. So for eight years he ran this three person shop.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And he just cash flowed like crazy. And he loved it.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

And eventually he was like, okay, now I have this company. I've made a ton of money.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I need to, we have to, we have to grow it so I can either sell it or like, I want to just spend my time a little bit differently.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

But like, what I don't think he sort of grasped is like growing your company becomes an all encompassing thing. It's not like that's the easy route is like, no, oh, we'll grow and then hire.

[Dalton Hatch]

I believe there's anything easy in business.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

People talk about like, like, you know, I'm sure it'll happen during this conversation, but it'll sound like we're like, yeah, you just do this, this, this, and you get here.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And it's like, yeah, that's not.

[Host]

Yeah, like, that's not what.

[Dalton Hatch]

There's a lot of nuance that goes into it. Like, not being stressed is very new to me. Like, I had debilitating stress just because it's the nature of the beast. Right. And I remember the first employee I ever hired, I didn't sleep for three days.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Because I was laying and it didn't hit me until I'm laying down in bed with my wife. It's like 10 o' clock at night. And then a thought hits my head. It goes, you're responsible for all of his bills. I was like, oh, what did I do? Didn't sleep for three days. I could not sleep.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

I didn't eat. I've never felt stress like that in my life.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And yeah. But like the whole not feeling stressed the same way, like, that's like a six month thing. Like just very new to me.

[Host]

Well, I mean, I think there's a good argument to like staying in this zone for a while.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because I mean, because like, you'll just add stress the bigger you get.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

You will add it back because like.

[Dalton Hatch]

Right now, like I'm here in Ohio and I get to have a great conversation with you while my guys are back home making money. You know, this is, this is cool.

[Co-Host]

Yes.

[Dalton Hatch]

I've never felt this before. Right.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

I've never had these opportunities to, to be able to spend time at home with my kids, which, you know, which is what I, I do to my best of my ability to let my guys have as well. Like, we don't do after hours, we don't do weekends, like Monday through Friday. And if they want to work on a Saturday or they want to work late, that's on you. If you want to do that. School, I'm not going to ask you to do that.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

It's funny you say that because I just had this conversation with Jared on his podcast. Like, what's, what are your goals for the company? Right. And it changes all the time. You know, the, the, the main goal of like why I started it was just to change the financial future of my family, of every single human being in my family.

[Host]

We've done that. Yeah, you've done that.

[Dalton Hatch]

Absolutely. The goals of how many trucks do you want? How big do you want to get? You want to stay this. Yeah, that changes all the time. Some days I want, you know, three main municipality locations in Texas. Some days I want two more plumbers to justify a manager so that I'm at home more and that's it.

[Host]

Like my quick take, having gone through this ride along little bit further is I wish that I would have known that that was an option earlier.

[Dalton Hatch]

Staying that size was an option or.

[Host]

I think so.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

I, I don't know that I would have.

[Dalton Hatch]

I feel like guys that build a company that you've built, that you're, that you're calling, like, you wouldn't have been able to.

[Host]

I, I think that I, I don't think that I would have been able to contain myself.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

But I wish I would have known that it was a choice because I, I didn't understand. I really didn't understand until, until I saw my friend do it and I was like, oh, holy.

[Dalton Hatch]

You can stay that size, can stay that or. And be okay.

[Host]

Or would I have stayed that size longer in order to prep to grow.

[Dalton Hatch]

Larger, like leading up to it?

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

That's cuz. What ends up happening, you end up on this. At least we have and you know, the people that we see that have got. Gone where we want to go is you end up on this. It's like a ride you don't get to get off.

[Dalton Hatch]

No, you. Yeah, you don't get to call in.

[Host]

Yeah, you don't. It's a train that, like, once you're on it, you're on that train, and. Because what ends up happening is the. So the company grows, and you start bringing in, like, really talented people that you want to work with, and they're smart and they're capable, and they're fun, and they're driven, too, because that's what you are.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You attract.

[Host]

You attract. Yeah, it's. You're magnetizing the same type of people that want to be around that situation, and you get more and more of them. And, like, we've had this. This was before we understood, like, oh, we're on this train. This is. This is the train. We thought we could control this. That was foolish. So we. We were like, okay, we'll slow down growth this year. We have never. We have literally never been able to slow down growth. Even if we attempted to slow down growth, it would be hard to do. And half of the reason is because we're attracting talented people that want to grow. So, like, well, how do you. How do you tell 170 people that we're not going to grow this year? Like, everybody's here to grow. That's what they're here to freaking do. That's why they're on this train.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

So then they want to work. I mean, I asked your guy over here what enticed you to come here, and his first word was growth. Yeah, that was literally what he said.

[Host]

That, like, that's. That's. That is, like, who we are at our core.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. So you can tell, like, walking into this building.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Everyone's like. Everyone is. Is. Is collectively agreed. Let's all be the best versions of ourselves to make this company the best version it can be.

[Host]

Well, that's our first core value is betterment. So, like, we're. We're literally here to win individually and as a team. Yeah. That's like. That is a core tenant of who we are as people inside this building.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's sick.

[Host]

So you get on this train and, like. And that's kind of it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Like, you're like, all right, I'm committing. I'm committing to 30 to 50% growth for the rest of my career. Like, and that's just, like, where it's at. And I didn't know that we were making that choice. I probably still would have, because I think that's who I am.

[Dalton Hatch]

Hindsight's 20 20, right?

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

But I think it is Interesting, because at this perfect two to three truck size.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

You literally just mint cash.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

In a way that you just don't for a long time.

[Dalton Hatch]

And just for reference, like, one of our vans is paid off.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And it. And it doesn't. I think it only has like 80, 000 miles on it just because it was the first van I ever bought. And I bought it for my mentor. He hooked me up. He was like, I'm. Dude, I'm so blessed. Like, it's. I shouldn't be where I am. He. He sold me a transit that got totaled like, the day he bought it.

[Host]

Oh, nice.

[Dalton Hatch]

And it came out of the shop and he was like, I don't need it now. I have all these other vans that I had to buy.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And he was like, I only owe 28 grand on it. It's got 20, 000 miles on it.

[Host]

Nice.

[Dalton Hatch]

It came with shelves, like the partition, everything. He was like, just pay me what I owe on it. I was like, absolutely, absolutely. Let's do this.

[Host]

That's funny.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, and that van's paid off. And, you know, I have two others and, you know, I don't owe very much on either one of them. And like, I still only give myself my bare minimum salary just because I'm. I want to reinvest everything.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Whether it be tools, marketing, you know, payroll, parties, bonuses. Like. Like, I just paid for the entire company and the entire company's families to go to topgolf and paid for the food, paid for their beer. Let's go have a good time. Let's. Let's just go have fun. That's just. That's what I love. That's my. That's my thing, man. I love that stuff.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

But. Yeah, that's. Things like that are. What, are. What would, like, what you said keep me from pressing the gas really hard?

[Host]

Yeah, it's harder to do that.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. Because I. I've. I've seen and heard from mentors and other companies. Like, I see what happens when you grow. Like. Like, we're talking about your. Your VMI over here. Like, and I asked you, I was like, how do you prep to spend this much money and know it's not going to make money.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

For this long, you know?

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And. And that's another thing that's like, I kind of like where I'm at.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, it's. It's a. It's a good thing. And culture becomes challenging to manage and, you know, you get to have. So we're 171. I think teams total.

[Dalton Hatch]

You're making like that's a huge difference in the economy.

[Host]

Yeah, it's wild.

[Dalton Hatch]

It is. It is wild that you're like that.

[Host]

We've, we've. I believe that's begun to make a dent.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Which is cool.

[Dalton Hatch]

You're blessed, brother. That's awesome.

[Host]

It is fun. But there's the, the bigger the organization gets. It gets obviously like more and more and more complicated and driving. Just everything takes maybe more intentionality. So, yeah, I'm like currently working through this new stage of my career. So as the business grows, like the way we say it to our leaders and the way it has manifested is every six months you have to relearn your job because every six months, like either your team or the company or something requires like a different version of.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's a great way to put it.

[Host]

A slightly better version of you.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

So like my new six month challenge is we're adding. We. We've built out our senior leadership team, which is something that we've been working on for a long time.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

What?

[Host]

They're very competent, they're capable. And I'm now in a spot which is very weird where. And I've been in spots that are adjacent to this. So it's just like this is the newest one, but I'm now in the spot where in I had friends tell me that this was coming. So like somewhere between 160 to 200 team members. Every single task has a home. Opening the mail is someone's job. Taking out the trash is someone's job. Listening to calls is someone's jobs. Coaching salespeople is someone's job. There's no more like open job for John to come in and tactically operate, which when you spend eight years of your life tactically operating and like you're the janitor as well as the CEO as well as the sales manager. And yeah, like that's how it works when you, when you're growing. So we're now at this stage where every single task has a human attached to it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Or an AI. A human or an AI attached.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

So like, so now we're switch. I'm switching over to this. It's a, it's a big shift where I can. It's no longer tactical. It's more like, okay, how can I coach in a new way and how can I impact culture from like six layers down? How can I do that? And it's funny. It. I don't know. Like, I'm still figuring Out.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's funny.

[Host]

These things are.

[Dalton Hatch]

So when we were walking through the tour, I had a question in my head, and I wanted to wait till ask you now was how does it feel to have that many employees, and how hard is it to be intimately involved with that many employees?

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know what I mean? Because, like, yeah, it's. It almost feels like in the business side of it, this is like the megachurch where the pastor doesn't know everyone's name. And it's like, how do you battle that? Because I feel like, especially plumbers, you know, we want to know who works for us.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

We want to know who you are, what you're about. Like.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

But at 171 people, it's pretty hard to do that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

So I'm very curious how you. How, like, how, I guess how intentional you are with that or how, like, how even. How possible it is.

[Host]

I guess it's possible. I. I mean, I know everyone's name.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

I feel like to keep a good culture, you kind of have to be that guy.

[Host]

Yeah. I mean, I. I think that I know other people that have roughly the same team size, and they do not make it their goal. And I like my quick take, and some of them are my friends. My quick take is like, they're coming off like, an.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Like, these are your team members. They matter.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

A lot. And, like, all our job at the end of the day, like, my job at the end of the day is to facilitate good culture. Like, I joke about it like, my title's CEO, but, like, underneath my name tag next to my office is Chief Vibes Officer. It's joke, but, like, it is real. Like, that's like, hey, that's what I'm here to do, is we're here to, like, create a culture that continues to move, especially when it gets bigger. It's almost like it's easier to ignore when it's smaller, but when it's bigger, you have to be more dialed in because you're no you. I don't get to go to topgolf with my whole team and their families. I now have to, like, how do I coach my apprentices to eventually move up through the organization when I have literally five leaders in between me and that apprentice? Like, how do I do that? So I do. You do know their names. I do know their names.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Obviously, at that many. I don't. I don't expect an owner to be on an intimate level with every single. That's why.

[Host]

Yeah. So.

[Dalton Hatch]

So that would be your entire Job. Yeah. Let's just be like, oh, let's sit down and have a conversation.

[Host]

I wish I could. I think it'd be. I think it'd be fun.

[Dalton Hatch]

That'd be a lot of time.

[Host]

It'd be fun. But I. So it takes a lot of intentionality. I do it differently than my president, Brandon. So Brandon actually has flashcards. Like photos and photos and flashcards. It's. It's that important to us that we practice.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's awesome.

[Host]

We also have, like, org charts with names and faces up on the wall.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And that helps a lot because often, like, I'll go a month without seeing someone. Like, that's just how it works.

[Dalton Hatch]

Well, yeah, they're all out, you know, I don't know.

[Host]

Might come in a different time than them. And it. If I see someone once a week, I see them a lot.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

So. So, yeah, we try to be really intentional about it. Brandon practices with flashcards. I use the org chart. Service titan helps because it's got the name, the photo.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah, we can. We stay pretty on top of it. And then I have skip levels once a week, which is like, I skip multiple levels. And I work with our service managers or install managers. Call them frontline leaders.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I talk to them about their team's performance. So I'm very still in tune with. With what's going on at the front of our organization.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's awesome, dude.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's huge for culture, in my opinion. And I don't know what it's like at your level, but I'm thinking of it as like a former employee mindset. Like that would be. That would be a very enticing thing to want to work here, is that your owner cares that much. Because I think you would agree most. Most owners nowadays. That's not. That's not the case.

[Host]

Yeah. Well, I. I think it's a part of our culture now. So if I didn't, like, I would be held accountable to it, which I think is good. Like, I think I'd get called out.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's huge. And that's good culture.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

100%.

[Dalton Hatch]

100%.

[Host]

Like, I need the feedback the same as anybody else needs feedback.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

I don't want yes men around me. Right. Yeah. Accountability is huge.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

But it does get harder. You do have to be intentional about it.

[Dalton Hatch]

I like that you use that word intentional a lot. Because it's. I feel like that's. I feel like that's the most important thing in business that a lot of people don't know. Especially guys in my position or even a little bit lower when they're first starting out is you need to be intentional with your money, you need to be intentional with your time. You need to be intentional on how you market where you're marketing. Like, intentionality is huge. Be intentional with your discipline. Like I highly suggest anybody that's starting a business like, wake up in the morning, read your Bible and journal, write your goal down every day, put it on paper, make it real. Be intentional with your time, intentional with your thoughts. Yeah, intentionality is huge.

[Host]

I agree. There's something that I think is kind of funny is you know the decisions that you're. And that's why I was encouraging you to think about, like, hey, do you really want to move from this size? The decisions that we made at 3 million are things that still impact the organization today. Yeah, like kind of a lot.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Like key vendors, how we source vehicles, and like our strategy behind vehicles. We use the same strategy today.

[Dalton Hatch]

Wow.

[Host]

Like same exact thing. Softwares, how we think about marketing, brand. Like all of those were decisions made between 3 and 5 million dollars.

[Dalton Hatch]

Wow.

[Host]

And so when we think about being intentional, that's a big part of it is because we can look at, hey, I'm doing this today. And this is the impact that, like when I decided to source vehicles this way seven years ago, six years ago, and I'm still doing it now, like that's the impact. Like that first vehicle set the tone for me to buy 95 more in the same exact way. That's a big deal.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

So now we just see like the second and third order effects. So, okay, so if, if I make a decision today and that decision is I want to be on tv, maybe like TV advertising or something, or billboards, like a branded activity, like that is a multi year ripple effect, like a five to ten year ripple effect. Because we're still feeling decisions, good or bad that we made five to 10 years ago, which is crazy. So yeah, we, we do, we do our best to be intentional and we do our best to be thoughtful about. Hey, what is my second order effect? I'm going to make this change. Then what? And then what? Yeah, like what's going to happen after that first thing breaks and how will I feel about this decision in four or five years? Is price the most important thing? What am I going to get from it? What's the long term plus minus?

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, that's cool. I didn't, I never would have thought about it like that.

[Host]

I mean, you're making decisions right now. That if you do decide to go on this, you know, growth journey, like, you've already made decisions that will ripple when you're 10 times your current size.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Like, we just, we just signed our contract on our first actual size billboard. Like, because we live in a rural town, we have like a 8 by 16 billboard in town.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

But we just signed our first, like, actual 14 by 48 foot billboard.

[Host]

Nice.

[Dalton Hatch]

And I thought of that when you said that because I'm like, yeah, I don't expect a lead to come from that. The next day. It could. That'd be cool. But that's, that's the branding stuff where, like, when they think of plumbing, we want them to think of us kind of thing. And I feel like when you said once you're on the train, you can't get off. I feel like that's the first step that I've taken to, like, get on that train. Like, that's the first quote, unquote, big company move.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

That we've made. And I definitely. I don't know. I don't know if I would want to grow to this size just because this is like, you're right. This is a machine, dude. Like, this, this is a machine. Like, for the people watching this, I hope that they. Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, you are, you are looking at my, at my life's work.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Like, this is your baby. Like, yeah, every company owners, their company is their baby. But this is like, I can see how much attention to detail, how much like just what you've put into. Just the organization side of it. Like.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

I hope you don't take it lightly because you should be.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You should realize how blessed you are. It's awesome.

[Host]

We're blessed. We're not where we want to go. We're not where we want to be.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

I feel like that we are happy with.

[Dalton Hatch]

I feel like that's your personality. I feel like it's a. I feel like you could be 200 million a year and still be like. But we could probably do 250.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Like, you're most entrepreneurs that I meet. I'm very similar. Like, never. I don't like saying never satisfied because that makes you sound ungrateful for. But I don't know any other better way to say it. Like, you're just not a satisfied kind of person. Like, you're not going to satisfy me. I like the drive, I like the chase. I like the, the day in, like, let's go.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's very much most of ours personal. I'M very much that way.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You're like, you're like the top personality type that likes that. I could tell.

[Host]

It's super cool. The mountain has no peak.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, exactly. You just keep walking.

[Host]

That's the problem.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. We're gonna get there. It's not, you're. It ain't there.

[Host]

Yeah, no, it's, it's, yeah, it is a core part of who I am.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Good and bad.

[Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

It comes at a fault sometimes. Right?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

As far as. Yeah. You asked about VMI and just sort of like, how do you, how do you make a decision knowing that there's going to be less of an impact or like less of an immediate impact? I think a lot of it stages and a lot of it is very tactically knowing your numbers.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

Which sounds like a dumb way to put it, but it really is that where, if I, if I know I'll have budgeting, which is like probably the most boring topic.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

But so budgeting is not just like financial, like, hey, I expect this much revenue and this much profit.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Budgeting is also. Here's how many calls I think we're going to get. Here's how many leads we're going to get. So if I, If I budget 500 appointments in a month, then I knew that I needed, let's say 700 leads in order to get that because I'm budgeting an 80% close or something. I think my math's off, but work with me. So I know my call center, like marketing knows that they need to drive 700 phone calls. We know we're going to book 500 of those phone calls and then we know we're going to sell 50%. No, that's what we budget anyway. So we think we're going to sell 250 jobs at an average ticket, $2,500. So once you start understanding there's lead measures and there's lag measures. So a lag measure would be like revenue. Revenue is a result.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

It is not like the thing. Revenue is a result of other things happening upstream.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And those things happening are like, well, how did we drive a lead? How much money was that lead? What's our booking rate on that lead? What's our demo rate? Like how many actually show up? Reverse cancel or whatever because that becomes a whole thing. And then once we get out there, how many do we close? And those are all leading measures that drive in revenue. So all that to say you can start making longer term decisions when you have it. An understanding of, hey, in June. My budget for June is $2.4 million or something. Our actual budget I think is like 2.8, but $2.8 million. And I know that I will be within 10% of that because I understand the leading measures. Like, I know we're going to drive this many leads. I know our closing rate is this. Our average ticket is this, you know, plus or minus a couple points. So like we know the data and when you have that, when you're armed with that type of information, you can make really good projections. Like, hey, I know I'm gonna, I'm gonna be within 5, 10% of our expected leads. Yeah, I know our conversion rate, like, that's just like all pretty standard. I know our average ticket. So as long as I deliver leads, which we will, then I can make six month investments or I can make decisions that like right now we're adding three managers. That's a big deal.

[Dalton Hatch]

Like, that's huge.

[Host]

That feels like a big deal to me. And, and on one hand on it, I think I'm like caught up in like, that's a lot of overhead.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

But on the other hand, like, it will actually just not really make a ripple in our P and L at all, which is still like, I think I'm getting used to that. Like, I don't even think we'll really notice. Like we will, but it'll be like half like percent. It's. It's crazy.

[Dalton Hatch]

So, so we're three salaries.

[Host]

Yeah, I know, dude.

[Dalton Hatch]

Whether it makes a difference on paper, it makes a difference up here.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

So. So we're adding in these, we're adding in these new leaders and we feel confident in it because we know our leads are on point. Our conversion rates here, our average tickets here. And we're continuing to perform. But it did take years to get to get there. Like a lot of that has only happened within the last two years.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Knowing your numbers, I wish I would have known how huge that was earlier on. Now granted, we're still like, you know. Yeah, two years and some change in. So it's still early. But like it's also a catch 22 because if you don't, if you're early on and you don't have any data to pull from. Yeah, there's no numbers to know yet.

[Host]

Or what's the right. Or what's the right numbers.

[Dalton Hatch]

Exactly.

[Host]

And, and like not knowing how to impact them.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. Like crazy enough. And I guarantee this is going to, you're going to be like, what the hell we've. We've gotten. We've had three or four bookkeepers, something like that. And we've been screwed by every one of them. Almost a little over two years in, and we just now have an accurate P. L. Yeah. And I've been able to do what we've done.

[Host]

That doesn't. That doesn't surprise me at all. Just because we've gone through, like, 10.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Just because, like, I. I've known. Running this. Like, we keep getting screwed. The p. L's never been accurate. Like, yeah, I, like, went. I went, like, nine months without looking at the p. M. Because I was like, it's screwed. Like, we didn't have to find it.

[Host]

We didn't have an accounting department.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

A full department for six months in 20, 23 because they did something stupid. So we fired four people and. And we were like, $15 million business.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Running without anything, like, off the. Off the bank account. So, like, when good decisions. That's how it works.

[Dalton Hatch]

Come into play. That's when good decisions come into play.

[Host]

We only got tight reporting, like, a year ago, dude.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's.

[Host]

And that's in the mid.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's so comforting. That's in the mid.

[Host]

20 million.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's so comforting to hear because, like, you know, I've talked to. I've talked to other. Other business owners, and, like, yeah, you know, we get accurate P and l by the 10th of the month. And I'm like, I'm. Yeah, me too.

[Host]

I'm on my. I'm on my fourth month. I think of having an accurate close by the 10th of the month. I mean, fourth month in my entire career.

[Dalton Hatch]

That makes me feel so much better. So much better.

[Host]

Yeah, it was awesome. I was like, holy. This is just, like, this is incredible.

[Dalton Hatch]

This is what it's like to not have to go. I Wonder.

[Host]

We'll do 31 this year.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. Like, yeah. Like, it's just. It's hilarious.

[Host]

But, like, I mean, it's a journey.

[Dalton Hatch]

But it's back to intentionality. Like, because that. I've never had an accurate P and L. I've been extremely intentional about money. Extremely intentional about where I put the money in the business, where I. Where I put it in marketing. I. I study our. Our numbers on service, and service titan is a godsend. I was telling your guy, the first six months of service time, I want to cancel the membership every day. I'm like, I hate this. This sucks.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

But what really is, is I'm a plumber and I'm an idiot. And I don't know how to use it yet.

[Host]

I don't know about agreeing to the idiot, but it is, it is a hard software.

[Dalton Hatch]

It's. Yeah, the learning curve is huge. People say it all the time, but it's, it's, it, it is huge. And now that I have it and I understand it, I'm like, this is the greatest thing ever. And Service Titan's been the biggest part. Like we've grown more in the past six months with Service Titan than we've grown the entire company. And I have like all credit to service time with that because like we've been able to see like, okay, what's our opportunity, job average? What's our, what's our conversion rate? What's our call rate? What's. What's our booking rate? Like, you know, and, and that's, that's why we hired those, those coaches for CSRs and dispatchers. Because our booking rate is like anywhere from 67 to 78, which I was.

[Host]

That higher than that.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's on service time. Just knowing what our booking rate is and are from classifying calls and all that. And of course you want it to be higher than that because you're paying for those phone calls.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Granted we get a stupid amount of spam calls, but.

[Host]

Well, there's two different booking rates. There's a booking rate and then there's booking.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. So the raw booking rate is the 6873. And I think the.

[Host]

That would be considered high if that's raw.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

So like our raw booking rates. 30.

[Dalton Hatch]

Okay.

[Host]

So that, that's.

[Dalton Hatch]

I'm second guessing myself.

[Host]

Well, that's okay. Like it, it becomes a much bigger deal. Like it might not be as much of a thing now because your number is just not as broadcasted everywhere.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

So like for us, it's vendors calling, it's people calling for hr, it's customers calling with random inquiries.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

So you, when you're looking at, you want to make sure you measure it twice. Like, so raw booking rate is every single phone call that comes into this building. If they're calling for accounting, we count it. And so if I get a thousand phone calls a day, which is about accurate.

[Dalton Hatch]

So that's insane.

[Host]

It's insane. So if we get a thousand.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, it's nice.

[Host]

Thanks.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's so wild to think about.

[Host]

Freaking. It's freaking wild. So we get a thousand phone calls a day. Like we should be booking 250 to 200.

[Dalton Hatch]

Okay. Okay. When we're done, I want to see that. I Want to see what that looks like on service time, if you don't mind the booking rate.

[Host]

Yeah, Yeah. I actually don't necessarily know how to find that, but that's awesome. Someone will.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's so cool. That's so cool. That's how you, that's how you see the reports. That's how you know you've built the machine. You're like, I know what it looks like on paper.

[Host]

I know what it needs to be.

[Dalton Hatch]

I see what it looks like on my email.

[Host]

I'm not, I'm not sure how to find it.

[Dalton Hatch]

But no. Yeah, we hired, we hired those coaches to help them out because. And the, and another. That I just thought another really cool thing about the size that I'm at is like, we book a lot of calls from people who just want to talk to a plumber and they get to talk to the owner.

[Co-Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, like, I book every call they send me. Like, hey, so. And so I, you know, I ran through the spiel. I tried to get them booked, but they just, they have some questions before someone goes out and I tell them, tell them, would you like to talk to the owner? Because what's cooler than getting told that as a customer? Like, hey, you want a personal phone call from the owner of the company you just called? So I'll call them. Hey, how you doing? Office said you had some questions. What can I help you with? I book every. I'm 100% closed on that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Because as soon as I call them. Because I call them the second that text hits my phone.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And which is usually within five minutes of them calling them and they're like, oh, my gosh. Hi. And that's like, that sets the tone for the tech going there. That sets the tone for them as a lifelong customer rather than a one time customer. And I like that part of this size because.

[Host]

Well, yeah, there's no way you could do that. No. This is an example of exactly the type of tactical thing that I can no longer do.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Like, and, or if I do it, it's like we have to make a process for it.

[Dalton Hatch]

You would, you absolutely would have to. Because.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because.

[Dalton Hatch]

You imagine if every one of your texts were just like, hey, can you.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Text you? Like, can you call this person?

[Host]

Well, there was a, there was a period. So like, as we were really, as we were in, like, so when in 2021, we bought a lot of companies over the years, we bought nine.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And when in 2021 we went from 32 team members to 105 in like 120 days or something. It was like, that's nuts. It was ridiculous. We bought three companies. We bought a company in July. We bought a company in September. We bought a company in December. It was a lot.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, you got on the train, buddy. That's awesome.

[Host]

So we went from 32 to 105. And obviously like, the infrastructure demands are totally different. Those two, at those two sides. So we basically spent the next three years figuring out what the we were doing.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Every day. And most of that was either like myself and my president, Brandon. Most of it was like us leading teams directly or us standing up teams directly. So.

[Dalton Hatch]

Gotcha.

[Host]

So like that type of activity. Two years ago I did, I was like running call center because we moved into this building two years ago almost to this day. Like texts will. Text will move to a new building if you move. But like CSRs tend not to.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

So like one random day, our entire call center basically quit. And so I had to rebuild. I had to stand up a call center. $15 million business. I had to stand up call center in 24 hours. Which we did. Like, we, yeah, but like, I was so cool. I was on the phones too. So like, that's so cool. But over the years we used to, whenever a team needed rescued, like, Brandon and I would go in and rescue that team. So like we, we've each run every single department in this building twice.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. That makes it easy for you guys to believe in you too.

[Host]

Yeah, I, I, I think so.

[Dalton Hatch]

But yeah, like I'm looking to hire an apprentice right now to float because we, we have, we have so many jobs that it would help, especially because I'm playing the apprentice.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

So like I went to a sewer line job. I sold the sewer line job, had my guy go do it. He needed a hand, so I went out there with him. We're in the trenches together, put in a sewer line and in my head I'm like, this is what I wish owners that I worked for would have been like, because they will be. They're the kind that stand outside the.

[Host]

Church that you can still do.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, that's that.

[Host]

Cuz like I've, I'm a plumber through and through.

[Dalton Hatch]

That that's been hard for me to give up is like, yeah, the going out on calls thing and doing jobs because that's, that's what I fell in love with. Plumbing.

[Host]

You can still kind of do that. I think people tell you there's like a stage in your growth where you can't because like, you have to be on the business but eventually working on the business is working with, directly with your team.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

So it looks more like ride along though. I've been in the field like 10 times this year so far.

[Dalton Hatch]

I just always want them to know that I have their back. Like, I'll always be able to help them no matter what. Like, and they understand, like, there's going to be a point where we just have so many guys that they don't need me. But you know, like, I had a guy, he sold a, a water heater in Texas. We have them in the attic and in the garage because we don't have basements.

[Host]

Sure.

[Dalton Hatch]

And he sold both water heaters and a PRV and we put PRVs in the ground at the meter.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And you know, he's like, hey, can you go get the water heaters and meet me out here? We're. We were there till 8:30, 9:00 clock together. Like, I'm like, I'm not leaving till you're done, bro. I got you. Like, I want them to know that I won't ask them to do things that I'm not willing to do. That's why I don't ask them to work after hours because I'm not willing to. But yeah.

[Host]

Can you walk me through something you were sort of talking about earlier is like your. The revenue for the size of team members you have outperforming.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

I would have expected. Can you walk me through like performance?

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

So how many jobs a day? How about we start there? How many jobs a day are your guys running?

[Dalton Hatch]

Anywhere from 2 to 4 per tech. It just depends what the job is. If it's a quick job, if it's a. They end up selling a water heater or a softener or whatever. Right.

[Host]

Owned and operated is proudly sponsored by supplyhouse.com running a home service business is tough. I'm in the grind every single day in my plumbing and heating business. What I look for is ways to make my life a little bit easier. And supplyhouse.com helps with that. Supplyhouse.com has over a quarter million parts from all the brands that you and your team are going to love. And all those parts are in stock and ready to roll so you can schedule your next job with confidence. Supplyhouse.com can also help you boost your bottom line with their free to join trademaster program. Over 100,000 professionals trust the Trademaster program every single day for free shipping, free returns and discounts on the stuff that they buy. Use promo code SH5 for 5% off your first order. That's supplyhouse.com promo code SH5 and that code is valid through September 30, 2025. How many days out are you booked?

[Dalton Hatch]

We usually can schedule everything same day. I try to keep it that way. Either same day or next day. I try not to be days booked out just because that's when they're, they have a bigger tendency to cancel and go with someone else. That can get there faster.

[Host]

Right.

[Dalton Hatch]

So if that's when I hire people is if we're scheduling I. If they call on a Monday, we schedule them for a Wednesday. That's when I'm hiring people for the most part. So it's, it's two techs full time in the field me when I'm needed. So like I think our year to date is just shy of 600, 000 in total revenue. Between like two and a half plumbers.

[Host]

That's a lot.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And honestly like the biggest reason is communication is huge. We have a company group chat. That's how we talk through the whole day. My guys are really, really. And I, and I, I expect this from them. They're really good communicators. Like the moment they sell a water. Hey, I'm going to be here for a couple hours. Just letting y' all know, hey, I just finished my job. Does, does Matt need help on a job? Does Walter need help on a job? I can be there. What, what do you need me to get? I can get material. Like we're, it's all about communication to be able to do that. And it's all about, in my opinion, just coordination.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Because. Because we don't have a shop with inventory. Right. So we have to pick up material. Well, if you go to a house and it's 3:30 and you sell, you know, a water heater, water softener and a prv, let's knock out the water here in the PRV so that we get them happy and get the water back on. And then tomorrow morning we'll come back out and we'll do that. The softener, the thing that's not exactly needed right now.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And that, that's almost honestly that. And.

[Host]

What'S a normal week in performance per guy?

[Dalton Hatch]

Like 15. 15, 15,000. I there, there are minimums that I ask for. I say ask instead of required because at the end of the day it's on me to provide the leads. And if I don't provide enough leads then I can't expect them to sell enough. Right. If I give them one lead a day, but because sometimes it's slow. It happens. But I would like 3,000 a day per tech and then 10 to 15,000 a week per tech. And then monthly I'd like them to be 45, 50, you know, but I mean, at 35, we're still doing fine. And just, I've. Honestly, the biggest thing is having guys that are driven, guys that want to do good, and guys that want to make money. Because if they don't want to make money, they're not going to want to make you money.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, if they're complacent with making the minimum amount of check they can, they're not going to want to excel for you. But I give them incentives, you know, like, I give them bonuses. There's no point in making all this.

[Host]

How does the comp plan work?

[Dalton Hatch]

So our pay scale is different for everybody. So I ask them, you know, what do you want to get paid? What do you like? What style do you like to get paid? You know, do you want all commission? You want hourly plus commission? You want hourly? That's cool. I'll try anything with you. But you're still expected to perform and produce.

[Guest]

Right?

[Dalton Hatch]

So, you know, one guy, one guy could make 45 an hour. One guy can make 25, 20% of the ticket. It just depends. And then, you know, like I told them, if Y' all hit 2 million in revenue this year, I'll send. I'll send everybody in the company to cruise in the Bahamas. Because, I mean, what's the point of making all the money if you don't do anything cool with it?

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

We just took 45 people to Dominican Republic.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, see, like, that's next year. Like I said, I did the $5,000 scholarship for the kid to go into trade school next year. I want to do 20,000 between four kids. That's a goal I have.

[Host]

So 15,000 a week, two to four leads a day.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Last month was our record month at 191. We averaged.

[Host]

And how often were you in the.

[Co-Host]

Field in that month?

[Dalton Hatch]

More than now. But not like a crazy amount. Yeah, it was definitely a decent amount because, I mean, if I go out to a job, I'm. I'm probably going to sell a bigger job just because I can make on the flat decisions. They can't. Like I have to get approval for something. I don't need to get approval. So. But I think. I think I only did like 30 or 40 grand of that and the rest was them.

[Host]

It's A lot.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And that was mainly just selling a job and letting them do it, you know, but, but yeah, I mean just, just communicating and, and not expecting my guys to bury themselves in the ground. Like I'll push them until I feel that, you know, it's, I need to let up a little bit and then that's when I'll work more. If we're busy, when do you think.

[Host]

You bring on your third?

[Dalton Hatch]

Super soon. Like I feel it, I feel it coming. I've had, I've had, man. I was not the leader that I needed to be to have the guys that I have now two months before I found them. I had to become the leader I needed to be to be able to get them. And then I hired both of them the same day. Like I was super blessed. Found out about both of them the same day. Hired both of them the same day. I, I'm, I've had. Because I was such a crappy leader and not the owner I needed to be beforehand. I've had plumbers work for me and leave, you know, because I wasn't organized. Like they would pretty much. I had like a half assed price book so they would be like, hey, what do you want me to charge for this job? On like every job? That's not their fault, that's mine. And then so I got my price book built out. I, I got everything ready to go and then I found both of them and then that's when the scaling happened and that was the like the turning point for as far as revenue goes. Learning that I have to evolve myself in order to get that third guy right now.

[Host]

Learn every six months. I mean that's a. Never ending.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

I've kind of like the company gets bottlenecked.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

By me or you?

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Or what holds it back.

[Dalton Hatch]

I realized as you were saying it, the learning your job every six months. I was like, yeah, that's, that's pretty on the nose because now I'm having to learn processes, I'm having to learn systems. I'm having to learn like you know, getting job costing down as far as like knowing what job costing is. Exactly. So I know exactly what we're working with kind of thing. But honestly it's like I, I think we'll have a third guy. I think by the end of June we'll have a third guy. Yeah. Right now we're steady. It's not slow, but we're steady and you know, we're.

[Host]

Now you've said you're spending like you gave Me a rough idea. How much?

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. So in marketing, anywhere from 20. On the super low end, like 16 grand. And then on the super high end, like 30.

[Host]

Can you break that down? Like, what's inside there?

[Dalton Hatch]

So, ppc, SEO, LSA website. I include my retainer for my marketing company that I pay. And then we have billboards that we're putting up, like the 8 by 16 small ones that we do in the rural towns. I have three more going up. Those are anywhere from 5 to 7. 500 for the year, rented the space, and then it's like 2,500 bucks for the sign to get made. And then I do yard signs. I, I usually buy about a hundred every two to three months and I'll go out at like one to three in the morning on a Friday and just put 50 out somewhere. We get a lot of revenue from that. I just started doing a lot more social media stuff on TikTok, like videos editing, things like that. We've been getting, starting to get some leads from that. Majority of our leads, I would say is probably ppc, which is why our cost per lead's higher than where I would like it to be. Just because we're competing with like nine different big shops that are putting a million plus a month into just ppc.

[Host]

It doesn't matter.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, yeah, that's what I was going to say.

[Host]

It doesn't matter. Like you're, you win marketing. Whoever has the high. Whoever can afford to pay the most for the lead.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Is who wins.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And frankly, I know the average tickets of the companies that you compete against, they've all been here and visited and yours is higher. So like you can afford to pay more price properly.

[Dalton Hatch]

Because I understand the market we're competing in.

[Host]

Yeah. You can afford to pay more for a lead. So like it's almost irrelevant. I mean, it'd be nice to have like a 5% marketing.

[Dalton Hatch]

I do a lot of guerrilla marketing too.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Like I did, I did six career days this, these past two months. We, we did that scholarship thing. Like I do a lot of that kind of like events.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

I try to be involved with the communities as much as humanly possible. Like for Teacher Appreciation Week, we took donuts and kolaches to every school in Bandera for the, for breakfast, for the teacher, for the whole staff of the school. That kind of stuff is, is a big driver for leads for us. Hey, we saw that you did this or. Because I asked. I asked. I'm like, how'd you hear about us? I want to know I want to know the data.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

I tell my guys to ask. And then also, we have, like, really good reviews. You know, we have, I think,230.230 reviews with 4.9.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And our only negative reviews are price. And I'll take that any day of the week.

[Host]

Yeah, that's what we say, too.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. I'll take. If you. If you have a negative view about service, I'm going to call you the second I see it. And we're going to figure out why the hell that happened, because that's unacceptable. Like, customer service is my jam. I love. I love customer service because I feel like I'm. I'm doing customer service the way companies around me talk about them doing customer service, if that makes sense. Like, we care about our customers. But then it's like, not really, but like, I sympathize with. I get it. Like, we're meeting you on your worst day. Nobody wants to call a plumber. Nobody's like, man, I really hope I can spend $3,000 today. I'm so pumped, you know, but, like, we just. We just. We just actually care. We understand it sucks. We're going to do anything and everything that it takes to help you out. And I think that our reputation is what drives a lot of leads as well. We've. We've been able to. To build a really, really good. Because in the Hill country where we live, those. Those bigger companies, people don't call them out there.

[Host]

Right.

[Dalton Hatch]

Because they know what they're going to charge them.

[Co-Host]

Yep.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, granted, we're not cheap, but we're not that. You know, I'm not spending million dollars a month in marketing, so my. My numbers don't. My prices don't need to be that. Where that. Where that is. And nothing against them. That's where their price is. Like you. Like, I guarantee your prices are more than us because you have more going on than we do. You wouldn't stay in business if you charged what we charged, you know, but we've kind of taken over the Hill country because not. There's really no company out in the Hill country, out in rural Texas like that, that answers the phone when they call, that shows up same day or next day, that provides options, that charges flat rate.

[Co-Host]

Yep.

[Dalton Hatch]

That treats them like a human being, like, like the number one thing I hear, because there's. There's plumbing companies around us, you know, that are. That have more people, but they don't do near the amount of jobs we do. They don't do near the numbers we do, because they, they're. They're not focused on the most important thing. And the most important thing is one, taking care of your customer and to taking care of your guys. You know, if you pay a guy 20, $25 an hour, he's probably not going to go over the moon to take care of your customer.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, and if you walk, you.

[Host]

Sorry.

[Dalton Hatch]

Oh, you're good.

[Host]

When Bringing on the third guy, 16 to 20,000 is a lot.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

That's just a lot. Like, tangibly. A lot of money.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

But it sounds like you're not feeling like you have the leads yet, despite that's a lot of money.

[Dalton Hatch]

There's two different feelings of having the leads in my brain. So there's. I have the leads on paper and then there's having the leads in my head.

[Host]

Okay.

[Dalton Hatch]

Because I still. And I get caught up.

[Host]

Yeah. What's the difference?

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. So I'll. I still think like a plumber. Right. So I still think if we're not slammed, that doesn't justify a guy.

[Host]

Oh, gotcha.

[Dalton Hatch]

But you don't have to be slammed to justify a guy.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You have to have a certain amount of leads. 52 leads a month. Yeah. Like, like I was, I was telling my, my mentors the other day on the phone, I was like, I have. I have the leads to, to hire a guy. I don't have the guy yet. Like, I need to find a guy that can capitalize on those leads, because those are the two guys I have. They capitalize on their leads like their closing rates are 90 to 100%. And that's even with, like, I've changed prices to, to accommodate that because, I mean, you know, the rule of thumb, if it's 100%, you're too low. If it's, you know, 60%, you're too high. Like, that they stay at like 88 is average and then like anywhere from 88 to 100. Conversion rate, opportunity converter rate. I don't have the infrastructure to train a guy to get to there. I'm at the size where I need the guy to be there and find him. And that's what I'm doing currently is recruiting. Yeah, I think that's, that's because I'm so picky on, on higher. Like, like, I tell people it's easy to get an interview with me. It's really hard to get a job with me. I'm really picky because I've had so many guys, you know, say they want to stay forever and then leave granted Most of that was my fault. But still, it's like in the back of my head, like. Like a woman that's been cheated on a bunch of times. I don't trust you. You're just like all the others.

[Host]

That's funny.

[Dalton Hatch]

But. Yeah. So, like.

[Host]

Yeah, that's just currently.

[Dalton Hatch]

I'm currently recruiting.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

It's just a lot of dollars. I. I wonder if you could even jump up to four. That'd be kind of interesting.

[Dalton Hatch]

Probably on paper. Probably. I just need a fourth van. I have a third van. That's like my van.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, but I haven't. I haven't even started that van in almost a week and a half. So that's all I get in the bad habit of just of. Of justifying hiring on how many calls I'm running.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Rather than looking at the lead board, looking at like. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. So one of the things that.

[Dalton Hatch]

It was.

[Host]

It's sort of like a funny impetus to start growing the business.

[Dalton Hatch]

But yeah.

[Host]

One of the reasons we started pushing on it was we had. I don't like feeling vulnerable.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

It's not my favorite.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

I don't like that. And I never have. And, you know, big shock.

[Dalton Hatch]

Right.

[Host]

And so I don't like feeling vulnerable. And when I, you know, part of the job is how do we identify weakness and how do we, like, remove that weakness. And a big part of how we think about growth and how we think about continuing to push it started with feeling vulnerable.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Like, oh, one guy is our entire H VAC department. What happens if he leaves?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

What happens if he quits? What happens if I piss him off? Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Redundancy is important.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

And it turns into this. It becomes comical the bigger you get. Because I still like. It'll happen in accounting. Like, man, I only have one staff accountant.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

I should have two. You know, it's like dumb stuff like that. But I always remember back to like when it was one H Vac Tech. And like, that was what inspired us to start pushing harder and harder.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Was because I felt vulnerable. And I think it's it. That is one of the things that does get easier with the. With in like, the bigger the team.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

If there's 10 plumbers, like, someone's always going to be sick, someone's always going to be on vacation. And it no longer impacts revenue.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

It just doesn't. Because that's just like it's costed in. But at 2.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

That's a big deal.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. Like, I had one guy, one guy called in super sick on a Monday and he even came to work sick Tuesday.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And I had to get in the van and go to work.

[Host]

It's a. Yeah, it's a real impact.

[Dalton Hatch]

It throws a wrench and everything.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

When. When my dad was running the business, he had a guy named Lee. And Lee worked for me for like a year or two before retiring. But Lee fell off a ladder and he broke his leg and he was, you know, he was in a cast for six months. And you know, this was like. This is the early 2000s. Like, indeed. Wasn't a thing. Losing plumbers wasn't a thing. Like putting ad in a newspaper, somebody. Yeah, right. Like we. I. I don't remember who we found, but like that my dad had three plumbers and that one guy being down is a third of his business being down for six months. Hell yeah. It almost ran him under.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I think about.

[Dalton Hatch]

I think about.

[Host]

I was thinking about that as when. Like when you were like, oh, the third guy in. In my head, I'm. I'm always in that place of like, permanently paranoid is probably the best way to put it. I'm. There's a book called.

[Dalton Hatch]

I think about it all the time, dude. I really do.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

There's a book called Only the Paranoid Survive.

[Dalton Hatch]

I'm gonna have to add that to the.

[Host]

It's. It's a good one. It's a good one. But like, I really. It really, like, it hits home for me because I'm like, oh, I've always been paranoid. Like, I'm always expecting the shittiest thing in the world to happen. Then I'm just rarely surprised. Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

That is the story of my life.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

That's funny.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's funny that you said because I've. I've thought about. That's been a reoccurring thought for a couple weeks now. Like. Like, I've only had these guys. We've. Dude, our growth has been so rapid throughout the entire.

[Host]

Sure.

[Dalton Hatch]

Span of our company.

[Host]

100.

[Dalton Hatch]

I've only had these guys for a month and a half.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Like, I went from me, a plumber and a helper to me and a plumber to me, to me and a plumber to me. To me and two plumbers. That's kind of been the last year and a half. And I think about that a lot now because I'm like, damn, what if. What if so. And so gets hurt? What if. What if they quit?

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

What if both quit? What if, like, I think about.

[Host]

I'm like, it's real.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, it's very real. Because I'm at the point now where, like, that would really affect me.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And that's what, that, those thoughts have been pushing me so much closer to the third guy. Like.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

If you'd asked me two weeks ago.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

I'd have been like, we'll probably hire another guy by like November.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And these past two weeks, I've really been thinking about that. I'm like, you need, you need to, you need to do this.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You need to get this done. Like, like if you don't have another guy, if one guy calls in for a week straight and I have to go to work every day for a week, other things fall off that I need to be doing.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Which can also make us lose money.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, because like I was telling you, like, marketing is like, it scratches my creative itch. I love marketing. I love, I love, like the, the branding. I love going out to the community, meeting people that, Talking to people. But yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

The, the third guy. The third guy is going to happen very soon.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Very soon. I just need to. I gotta find him.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

But I'm, I'm doing, I'm doing everything. I. Well, I could be doing more and I will be doing more because this, this is like real time kind of convicting to be like, crap or get off the pot kind of thing.

[Host]

Well, you know, we're talking out of both sides here. It's like, hey, you're making the most money you'll make for a long time. You sure you want to grow? But on the other hand, I'm in the permanent paranoid.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Like, how do you de. Risk the situation?

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. Dealing with overwhelming emotion, no matter what the emotion is, is, in my opinion, the hardest part of a business. Because as an employee or just a general human being, you can run away from emotion.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You can run away from situations. Your business follows you home.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

I don't get to turn my phone off.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

I don't get to, you know, enjoy a, A Saturday or a Sunday with my kids after a negative review comes in and debilitates me for 10 seconds before I'm like, now whatever. You know what? We did everything right. Like, you take it personal. You know, like I had a. I had a lady. Literally, as I'm flying here yesterday, the night before, or. Yeah. Monday night at like 11, leave a one star review about price.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Which does not affect me the way it used to affect me.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

They used to. I'd be like, I'm gonna come to your house. Like, you know, but it's just like, man, I miss being an employee, because if that would have came in, I wouldn't have even known.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, but it's. But also, in the same breath, it's like, we're doing. We're doing the right thing.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Because she. I called her, and of course, I call. I'm like, hey, you know, did they do this? Did they do this? Did they give you options for this? And, you know, the service is always amazing. The guys are always amazing. They're so nice. They're polite. They're knowledgeable. This, that, and the other. Right. And it's always price. And I'm. And I just realized we're just not for everybody. Just like your company is not for everybody. And that's fine. It's okay. I don't need to get every single customer. That was a big lesson for me to learn, was understanding that just because it's kind of like what I said on Jared's podcast, just because I can't afford a Ferrari doesn't mean that Ferrari's price. Gouging me, you know, not saying that we're a Ferrari or whatever, but that's the best way I can think to explain it. Like, you know, some people can afford a $2 million Bugatti. Some people can afford a $3,000 Chevy pickup on Facebook, Marketplace. Like, it's just. It's just the way the world works. There's different. There's different financial classes, and, you know. Yeah, sometimes we go to. We go to a house, and, you know, like, I can't remember the lady's name, but we went to this lady's house, and, you know, she's, like, 90 years old.

[Co-Host]

Yep.

[Dalton Hatch]

She's on a fixed income. Before we touched the door, she was like, look, I'm not gonna. I don't want to waste your time because I'm. I already feel horrible. She's like, I got 200 bucks, and let me explain what's happened. We did the job for free. I'm not going to take the 200 you have in your account. Whether that's honest or not, that's between her and God. To get back to the third guy thing, like, you have to be, like you said, willing. Just willing to be vulnerable. Right. Like, that's what's kept me from hiring the third guy for sure, because I'm. Because it's a scary feeling. It's a very scary feeling. Every guy hired. Scary feeling.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

But the third guy for sure, because that's like, that's that step. Right? That's that. It's just that they're deciding something.

[Co-Host]

Yep.

[Dalton Hatch]

And I don't know. I do, but I. My brain's like, no, you don't. I don't. I want to say, like, I don't know if that fast growth. I want to keep doing that. You know, I kind of like the time I'm getting to spend with my kids, the time I'm getting to spend with my wife.

[Host]

Three's not.

[Dalton Hatch]

But it's like, it makes you. It makes me think five years ahead is what I mean.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, but I know, like, you.

[Host]

Could stop at three.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, yeah. Like. Like, your buddy said he had what? Yeah, five.

[Co-Host]

Three.

[Host]

Yeah, he's at five now. He had to hire a manager.

[Dalton Hatch]

He had three.

[Host]

He had three.

[Dalton Hatch]

Okay.

[Host]

Yeah, he had to hire a manager at five. And it was like, is there a.

[Dalton Hatch]

Difference between a manager at 4 and a manager at 5? Is it just one of the same? You either hire.

[Host]

No, I. I think it's like a direct report problem.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Like, not really. You know, I think, you know, the. The manager. So there's. There was five plumbers, an admin, a manager, and my buddy.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And the manager basically ran the admin and the five plumbers. So six direct reports.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And then my buddy, you know, at the manager. So to me, that's like a perfectly fine org chart.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Probably makes a lot of money.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

To fulfill the goals that I set out in the beginning, I have to. Because my ultimate goal is retired at 40. Like, retired from the day to day. So if that's going to happen, I mean, I got nine years to get it done. So. Yeah, I would love to. I would love to have. And I'm gonna. I want to do everything I can to have that guy by the end of June for sure. Because May is usually like, April is usually our. Our big month. That was our record month last year was our record month this month. This year. May is usually steady. June is steady to slow for some reason, like summer vacation, I think is why.

[Co-Host]

Mm.

[Dalton Hatch]

Again, that. That's the other thing I'm learning. Being very early in business is learning consumer patterns because we just don't have a whole lot of data to go off of. We're just kind of like year to year.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

But July is usually like.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

July and August are huge for us. And I don't want to hire a guy July 1st.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

I want to hire a guy as soon as I can in June.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

So that when July hits. He's running.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Not well. You got three more days with.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

So, and so before you're let go.

[Host]

On your own, you get more. You get more. You get to be more intentional about it.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. The, the, the hiring. The hiring for the future is, is. Is the scariest thing for me. Like how AC companies will hire in the spring so that when the summer hits, you're not screwed.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

Well, I think plumbing, electric and H vac, like, you know, we have a big hiring push. I think We've onboarded like 30 heads in the last 60 days.

[Dalton Hatch]

Well, yeah. You were saying what, like every. Every two weeks.

[Host]

Two weeks. Yeah. Today there was, you know, this week there's five, and I'm wild and. Yeah, it's a lot. But, you know, peak season summer, so, like, our, you know, our revenue will go from like 2 to 2.2 up to like 2.7 to 3.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Like, that's a 50 jump. That's a big jump. And it happens really quick. Like probably starting next week in June. We've already started to see it, like, trending, like, day by day. We're going from 100 a day to 140 a day.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

So, like, it's moving, you know.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Instead of thinking about maybe what's best for the business, I think about what's best for the guys too much. Which. That can be a thing.

[Host]

Well, it does remove some pressure from them. They can take vacations.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Be sick without feeling guilty.

[Dalton Hatch]

Well, in the sense of like, I don't want to hire a guy and then he takes some calls from them and then they leave or something. Like, it's just like. Yeah, it's the permanent paranoid.

[Host]

Well, so one of the. What I have found is the. If you're going to make a step change like that, faster is better.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because if you do it in a year, then they're used to having all the leads. They've been here for a month and a half. They're not used to having all the leads. They've only been here for 45 days.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

But if you did that in a year and you'd be like, hey, I'm going to change this now kind of dramatically.

[Dalton Hatch]

That makes sense.

[Host]

Then it's more challenging.

[Dalton Hatch]

So like expecting someone set in a routine to be like, oh, yeah, let's change 100.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

That makes.

[Host]

There's a lot more change management, the more stuck in a specific way a team is. But if, if, like, if we have, like, we've had teams where we have one salesperson and it is a very big deal to add a second. So now when we're launching a new team or we're like investing or whatever that is, we want to get that team up to three as fast as possible. Because there's a lot less drama.

[Dalton Hatch]

When you. When you hire a salesperson, how do you. In my head, the reason I've never hired a salesperson is how do you deal with the customers seeing that they sold the job, but they're not the one doing it?

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Well, how do you keep your customer from.

[Host]

I would. I would push back and say that you currently have two salespeople.

[Dalton Hatch]

No, I. I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. I'm saying from a customer standpoint.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

How do you deal with their. If their thought process goes to wait, you're just here to sell, and then the plumbers come in and do that. Because there's companies in San Antonio where the salesmen aren't plumbers. They don't know anything about what they're selling. They're just salesmen.

[Host]

Yeah, Well, I think so. We run a sales install model, but our salespeople are plumbers.

[Dalton Hatch]

Okay. So that's where they know what they're doing.

[Host]

Yeah, they know what they're doing. They know what they're talking about.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's why.

[Host]

But the San Antonio, the benefit, like, it's kind of easy to explain. Like, okay, great, here's the job. Awesome. I have to order parts. That's going to take some time. So will be back later today or tomorrow and they schedule it. But hey, I got the materialist. We're going to go get the parts, you know.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Rob is going to come install this.

[Dalton Hatch]

Does the salesperson handle the collection at the end of the job or is that the installer?

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, I.

[Dalton Hatch]

Because like I was telling you, I've never worked for. I never worked for a company that has an install crew or sales department side. I know that much about how that works. So it's like the. I have that, like, old school mom or plumber mentality of like. Well, you choose a sales plumber. B, like that. Because you don't know. So you just judge.

[Host]

You guys also are sales plumbers right now.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. I've. Trust me, I've learned owning a business, like whether plumbers like it or not, if you're a service plumber, you're a salesman.

[Host]

Yeah. You're a sales guy. Plumber is just your product 100%. So, like your guys right now, if their average is 15 grand a week with that average ticket, like what you probably could do as a third guy is hire an installer, or you could get each of them an installer, because what ends up happening is, hey, instead of running two jobs a day, you can run four, and you get to sell anything you want. And then if it's above a certain threshold, flip it over to this guy. If it's below it, you still do it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

It keeps the guys that are already producing at a high level producing because that's a strong average ticket they're performing. So at 15,000 a week of selling and performing the work, that might be 25 to 30,000 a week sales, which is a lot.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

So that's that. I mean, that's how we approached it is we had a guy whose conversion rate was really high on water heaters.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

So we got him an installer that just followed him around because he would, like, he would sell every water heater he saw.

[Dalton Hatch]

Are you paying them performance pay installers as well?

[Co-Host]

Yep.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Because my thought process on that was like, I wondered if installers made hourly. I'm like, what if they don't have anything to do? Then you're just. Then they're just sitting there.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. They're performance. Yeah. And they make a lot. Like, our installers make a ton of money, which is awesome. Like they should. They deserve it.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Host]

They're doing hard work. So the. The rough way that it splits is sales gets 10, install gets 10.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's why I figured. Yeah, that's how a lot of the companies that I've. I've heard.

[Host]

Yeah, that's how radiant. Like, we told them to do that.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

So that's how they started doing that, like six months ago.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

They were up here in January.

[Dalton Hatch]

Nice.

[Host]

So it seems to be working. Ish. They're starting to Pivot. They have 28 plumbers that are all service plumbers, and they're trying to divide it in roughly half.

[Dalton Hatch]

It's for them to. That's huge.

[Host]

That's huge. Yeah, yeah, they're big. Yeah, that's.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, their. Their service area is a little bit away from us. They're like New Braunfels area, I think. But no, I mean, anytime I go towards that area, I see their trucks all the way.

[Co-Host]

Oh, yeah, Yeah, I bet.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah, they're big. 62 million.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's huge. Yeah, it's huge. Huge.

[Host]

Yeah. If you had any. If you had any advice for folks starting off their company, what would it be?

[Dalton Hatch]

Don't worry about what you look like to other company owners. Don't try to look bigger than you are just so that they think you're rich. A lot of guys fall into the, they start making more money and so they start buying things that don't help their business in any way, way too early so that other company owners think that they're this big. They care more about what other company owners think of them than what their customers think of them. And that's a big. That can crush you. I was very close to falling into that and luckily I have really good mentors. Like, hey, you need to stop. Like, who cares?

[Host]

Or what?

[Dalton Hatch]

Trucks, boats, clothes, like watches, whatever people are buying. Like, don't fall into that. It is, it means nothing at the end of the day. Trust in God.

[Co-Host]

People are dumb.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we, we make, we are all inherently flawed.

[Host]

I've, I've made that. I've made that joke a lot. I've always thought it was funny. Like we would be buying these companies that like couldn't grow, they couldn't figure it out. And they're like a fraction of our size.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And the owner rolls up like in a nicer car than me. He's got a lake house, he has a boat. And on one hand I'm like, oh, what should I, what did I do? And then on the other hand I'm like, well, I did build a big business.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

But yeah, it is, it is kind of funny. Still driving Ford Ranger. So hey, I don't know if I made it.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. There's nothing about a vehicle or a watch or the kind of pants you wear that's going to make your company grow.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

There's nothing about that. I think guys, I think one of the biggest things is don't compare yourself. Stop comparing yourself. Like so many guys will look at guys like you and be like, how do I get there? How do I do that? Like, well, let's, let's get to one tech first.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Like let's do that. Like, let's get to 500,000 before we think about a million. Yeah, let's get to a million before we think about 10, you know, so you hear, you hear a lot of guys say you need, you have to buy brand new vans right out the gate. You do not have to do that, but you do need to buy one with as low miles as possible because you will put miles on that sucker.

[Host]

You'll run it.

[Dalton Hatch]

I built my company off of certified pre owned vans that had 30,000 or less miles.

[Co-Host]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

Our buy box originally until 2019 was it had to be less than $17,000 and to have less than 30,000 miles.

[Dalton Hatch]

Ye gosh, I wish that was the case.

[Host]

Yeah. That different. It was a different world eight years.

[Dalton Hatch]

Ago, but now that same truck, that same van's 40 grand.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah, it's.

[Dalton Hatch]

It's.

[Host]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Dalton Hatch]

Like, I just bought one with 26,000 miles on has. It's got all the shelves. It was a. A plumber that didn't want to do plumbing anymore, so the material came with it too.

[Host]

Nice.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. Which is super sick.

[Host]

That's a win.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's a win. Super sick. Like, like literally 60 stocked.

[Host]

Hell yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Of what we carry. And I was like, all right, let's go. That was 42 grand.

[Host]

Yeah, that's solid.

[Dalton Hatch]

So I financed like 23 of it and paid the rest cash. And yeah, my, my, my, my thing on. On buying vehicles is keep it. Keep it less than a thousand dollars a month for the. Yeah, whatever we got to do to do that. That's what I'm cool with.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

But. But yeah, you don't have to buy brand new vans. Just buy. Don't. Don't buy something crappy. Like I. I started the company in a crappy F150. That's fine. If you're going to start it in your vehicle that you currently own, that's cool. But do whatever it takes to get out of that work to something that looks better. Customers, customers are all judgmental on your looks. Like the first five seconds you're at the house, they want to see the. What your vehicle looks like. Because however you take care of your vehicle is how you take care of everything. They want to see what you look like. So don't roll up to the house wearing a T shirt that is got mustard stains on it from your gas station roller. Dogs. Don't roll up like just crap. Look at like, just like try put some effort into your appearance, because whether you like it or not, whether you agree with it or not, that's how they're judging you.

[Host]

And if you all they have, they don't know first five seconds, that's the only thing they don't know.

[Dalton Hatch]

After that, it's on you to gain their trust.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, so if you're already starting off with it with a disadvantage because of how you appear to them, you're just making your job so much harder.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

How do you expect people to spend money with you if they don't trust you?

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And they're not going to trust someone that looks like a crack Addict.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

100.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, so just. My advice is, is just do your research, you know, like, follow guys like you. The content that you're putting out, man, changes. Changes the world of entrepreneurs because we live in a day and age where we have this thing in our hand with endless knowledge.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

People aren't using it, and it's crazy to me.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

I wish, like, that was why we did this originally, is. I wish that I would have had this.

[Dalton Hatch]

I'm so fortunate that I did.

[Host]

Learning curve by, like, years.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's why I've grown.

[Guest]

What?

[Dalton Hatch]

I've grown because I didn't. Yeah. I listened, but not only did I listen, I implemented what guys like you said, so I didn't make those beginner mistakes that a lot of guys make.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

So, you know, like, I started out with the F150. Three months later, I had a transit with a wrap. I didn't just put my name on the side of it. I had a rap. You know, like, I. I YouTubed, like, learning how to present pricing, learning how to build options, learning how to. How to excel in customer service. What is marketing? How many different kinds of marketing is there? How do you do marketing with no budget, with no money? Learning how to use social media. Like, you. If you're just going to start a company and then just wing it and think things are going to come together, you're in for a very rude awakening.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Because it's going to suck.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Really bad.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

To go back to that word we were saying, like, be intentional. Like, if you really want to start a company, then do it, but do it with intentionality. Like, just. Just study how to run a business the same way you study your fricking TikTok algorithm. If you can spend four hours on TikTok, you can spend four hours on YouTube searching how to start a plumbing company and watch every video that's there because there's thousands.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And then use some discernment. This guy's kind of crazy. He don't know what the hell he's talking about. This guy clearly has built this business. That's why, like, you and Jared are great guys to follow because y' all have done it. You're. You've built this huge company. He built a huge company and exited. Like, you know, there's guys out there, like, other guys can't think of their names, but other content creators that are plumbing company owners. Because that's all I know. That's all I care about. I don't care about how somebody built a tech Company that is not, you know, you can still get cool stuff from that, but it's few and far between compared to guys that are in your industry. Comparison's the biggest advice. Stop comparing yourself. I. I was a. I have a bad habit of that. I'm way better now. But, like, I'll see other companies that are close to my size doing bigger and better things. And I'm like, what the hell am I not doing? That doesn't mean that you're not doing it. That just means that you're doing it differently. Or, like, thinking that, you know, the market in Kansas is the same as the market in South Texas or California is the same as, like, Wyoming. Like, yes, you need to be priced properly, but also you need to be priced probably to what your market will allow. I can't charge what people in California charge because it's not $18,000 a gallon for gas.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know what I mean? Like, but I think guys just need to just do your research. Yeah, just do. Just, just try. Just put some thought into it. Don't just wing it. Replicate and duplicate. R, dude, like, who cares if you're doing exactly what somebody else. Like, so many times in the beginning, I would search what the giant companies in San Antonio were posting. I would take that post and just make my version. Because I'm like, well, if they're doing it clearly works. So replicate and duplicate. Why not? Yeah, like, who cares if someone goes, you made the same post. Like, yeah, I did.

[Host]

It worked. And thank you.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, you saw it, didn't you? You know, like, and. And learn. The other biggest one is learn. Learn marketing. Learn where wasted money. Because you can waste a lot of money on marketing. Like, I see these guys, they're like, they'll like pay a pizzeria tons of money to put their name in a pizza box.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

How many freaking people open a pizza box, see a logo, go, I should call that plumber. You know, it's good for when you get to the point where you can afford that. But if you're starting out, dude, like, get. You don't even have a Google presence and you're doing pizza boxes.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

Like, well, I think that's the first things first.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. Get on Google.

[Host]

Yeah. Get your first things first.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah. Get on Google.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Now.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

But yeah, these were good and tactical.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

I appreciate you coming on.

[Dalton Hatch]

I appreciate you having me, man.

[Host]

This was fun. I feel like hyper productive fun early journey. Like, getting ready to. Getting ready to add more on. Like, I think you're at a fun. I Think you're at a fun stage.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

About to decide if you're going to do the not fun part.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Honestly, it feels cool. It's really cool. Like, it's easy to get wrapped up in the fear.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, especially, like, at your level, it's really easy to get wrapped up in the fear.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

Well, I, I heard a quote this morning, if this helps.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And the quote was. And it's like, for your life.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

Career focused. What would you do if you knew you couldn't fail? I thought it was kind of interesting.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's sick. That's sick.

[Host]

Yeah. It was a good. It was good.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

So I've been reflecting on that one because I, I think, wow. We, we've always had a strong bias for action.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I am finding myself, like, holding back a little.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because the next step for us is a big step.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And that's like going regional.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And like, John from three years ago would have just ripped that shit. And John from today is much more cautious.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

So I'm, like, trying to send it, bro. I'm trying to figure out which one is right.

[Dalton Hatch]

I'm trying to, I'm trying to rein that characteristic in myself.

[Host]

Trying to, trying to understand which John's.

[Dalton Hatch]

I'm very quick to.

[Host]

Yeah, send it, dude. Yeah. Well.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

But it was an interesting thought exercise. So. So then it was like, okay, well, am I holding back because I'm afraid of failure? Am I holding back because that's the right decision? I actually think it's the right decision. But, like, could be masking, you know?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

But.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

What, what would you do if you knew. You knew you couldn't fail?

[Dalton Hatch]

Oh, man. If I knew I couldn't fail, I would, I would hire as many people as humanly possible and just get it. Like, just go. Because my biggest fear is, is this not working and disappointing my kids and my wife.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's really my only fear in life. Like, everything else can be replaced. But, like, disappointing the people closest to you is like, damn.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

That kind of sucks.

[Host]

That would suck.

[Dalton Hatch]

But yeah, man. If I couldn't fail, you'd send.

[Host]

It sounds like he full.

[Dalton Hatch]

I, I, I full sinned with failure possible. So I'm like, dang, if I'm doing this with the possibility of failure, I. It'd be concerning.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

My wife would be like, what did you do? It's cool. I can't fail.

[Host]

It's, it's fine. John told me I can't granted a wish. We're totally fine.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

This was funny, man. This was good.

[Dalton Hatch]

I'm glad that you're having guys at my level on because that's what this industry lacks is there's so many. And. And again, no offense to like Radiant or Victor Rancour or, you know, those. The dudes that are like Tommy Mello, like billionaire guys. Right. There's not a lot of dudes at the, at the. At the beginning journey, the first five years that are getting a platform to show other guys that, hey, you're relatable, you're not alone.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Because no matter what level you're on, an entrepreneur's life is very lonely. There's not a lot of people that can. That can relate to your. Your amount of drive and motivation and relentlessness and just your personality type in general. Right. And it's even more lonely in the beginning because all you think about on vacation when you wake up before you go to bed, your dreams, it's all about your business.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Which not to say that you don't either. I'm guarantee you do.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

But it's different.

[Dalton Hatch]

But you. And you know what I mean by it's different? Like, it's new. You've been doing this for long enough. It's just your day to day. It's your day.

[Host]

I was worrying about making payroll at 22.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah.

[Host]

So, like, I don't. I've never known anything else.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Like, like, I think about it all the time. Like, payroll this week. My, My. My office manager text me yesterday, hey, payrolls just over 12,000 this week. I'm like, yeah, cool.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Yeah, we're good. We made it.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, but like, on Monday when I wake up, it's like, so we're probably going to need to be at least ten to twelve grand this week to make payroll. That's cool. You know, but like, it's cool that you're giving guys on the, on the smaller end a platform to talk and get the stories out there so that it's kind of like aa. You go to a. You're like, oh, my gosh, I'm not the only piece of crap.

[Host]

Yeah, well, I, I think, like, you feel very alone. We try to cover, like the whole. That's cool, though, because, you know, we've had Tommy on, we've had Chad Peterman on, we've had Chris Hoffman on, we had the guys from Premier Home Pros. They're like, that's huge.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's. But that's.

[Host]

Then we've also had a guy on who started like six months ago, he did $500,000. And I, I, Yeah, I. I think it's good. And for me, one, we. We do want to create a resource that I wish I would have had eight years ago. But I. I agree with what my friend said. I think regard, like, I want to draw inspiration from wherever. And, like, one of the biggest core benefits that we've gotten from running this show is I get to talk to a lot of people.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I get to find out, hey, this. This worked for you. The size is kind of irrelevant. Like, everyone has something to teach.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And, like, I went to lunch last year with a guy that I directly compete with, and he's, like, half our size, and I took a ton out of it. Like, it was awesome.

[Dalton Hatch]

Awesome.

[Host]

It was a really great conversation, and he was an open book, which was really cool. And I think. I hope he got something out of talking with me too. But I feel like you can learn something from everybody.

[Dalton Hatch]

I agree. And that's why, like, the, honestly, the coolest thing that's happened personally is, like, I. Like, I'm an open book. I don't gatekeep anything. People that call me and ask me questions, I'll answer them all day long. And I said that on the other podcast, like, I've had. I had, like, I had, like, 12 plumbers from across the country call and, like, actually take me up on that, and I'm like, man, that's got, like, three, 400 views and 12 guys did it. I really wish the others would call because they were like, well, yeah, let's. Okay, I have questions. Like, get the answers, talk to people, reach out. Like, take that. Take that initiative, and, like, that offer will stand my entire life.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

If someone can get a hold of me, I'll answer your questions.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Like, and one of those guys I I talked to, now we're, like, really good friends.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And, you know, his name's Randall. He just literally, on the 28th was his first day starting as a company.

[Host]

Oh, nice.

[Dalton Hatch]

And I think he's already done, like, 14 grand or something like that.

[Host]

I'm like, hell, yeah, Randall.

[Dalton Hatch]

I told you, dude.

[Host]

So can go.

[Dalton Hatch]

You know, he's in Oregon. Wolf works plumbing. If you're in Oregon, call that guy. But, yeah, it's. This. Is any. Anything positive for the trades? I am 100% for.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

Because unfortunately, the plumbers before us have allowed people to make the assumption that we are somehow less than. Like, we're dirty, we're whatever. Which is why most people think plumbers should be $50 to put a toilet in or something. So this is kind of like getting the word out there to change the industry, to be like, hey, let's hold ourselves to a really high standard and let's change that narrative.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

And I love that. Yeah, that's awesome. That's huge.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

So I feel like I can speak for all plumbers. We appreciate you.

[Host]

Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, I appreciate it. So it's been a. It's been a really fun part of my life.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

I've made a lot of friends now, which is really cool. We have. Anytime we have a problem, big or big or small, like, we have someone interesting to talk to, well, that's solved it.

[Dalton Hatch]

That's our biblical calling, is to go out and make disciples. And you're making disciples through what you do for a living.

[Host]

Definitely not disciples, but I am.

[Dalton Hatch]

It's discipleship, making friends. It's men's together. It's men together. It's community. It's talking like. Yeah, yeah, you got. It's the same idea. And that's really cool.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

This is awesome.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Dalton Hatch]

I appreciate it, man. Thank you.

[Host]

Yeah. Thanks for coming on. If you like what you heard, make sure you check out owned and operated dot com. Subscribe and sign up for the newsletter.