#221 No More Tech Turnover: How to Hire and Keep the Best

Summary

Owned and Operated Podcast Episode #221 Summary: "No More Tech Turnover: How to Hire and Keep the Best"

In Episode #221 of the Owned and Operated - A Plumbing, Electrical, and HVAC Business Growth Podcast, hosts John Wilson and Jack Carr delve deep into the critical issue of technician turnover. Released on July 10, 2025, this episode offers invaluable insights into effective hiring strategies, retention techniques, and optimizing compensation models to build a robust technical team in the home services industry.

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1. Introduction to Technician Hiring Challenges

The episode kicks off with a candid discussion about the difficulties in sourcing and hiring quality technicians. John Wilson raises a pertinent question:

“How do you find good technicians? Most of them are already at Wilson company. So what does the process look like? Is there any secret sauce to getting a good technician at Wilson?”
[00:00] John Wilson

Jack Carr responds by emphasizing the importance of continuous recruitment efforts:

“I think people always say, like, always be recruiting. But like, let's go further on that.”
[00:13] Jack Carr

The conversation highlights the competitive nature of the industry, where skilled technicians are often already employed by established companies like Wilson, making it challenging for others to attract top talent.

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2. Compensation Models and Retention Issues

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around compensation structures and their impact on technician retention. John shares a real-world scenario illustrating the challenges:

“We had to let go of our top tech... another tech is leaving because the hours don't work for him... he still has a farm that he runs... he wants more stability.”
[01:20] John Wilson

Jack underscores the volatility in HVAC roles compared to plumbing:

“H Vac is tough, plumbing's pretty consistent, but H Vac is like, Are you working 100 hours a week or are you working 20? That's tough.”
[03:09] Jack Carr

The hosts discuss the delicate balance between offering competitive pay and managing the unpredictable demands of HVAC work, which often leads to higher turnover rates.

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3. Enhancing Compensation and Benefits

The conversation shifts to optimizing compensation models to better retain technicians. John touches on the complexities of commission-based pay:

“He's generating $35 an hour plus after commissions, which is not amazing, but it's shoulder season...”
[04:16] John Wilson

Jack elaborates on the need to transparently communicate compensation details to technicians:

“You need to do a lot of education because... you have to understand the math of your current compensation.”
[08:02] Jack Carr

They explore the concept of an Effective Hourly Rate, combining base pay with commissions and benefits to present a comprehensive compensation package. Jack explains:

“We're trying to call it effective hourly rate. So, if someone’s on task pay or base plus commission, they might be making significantly more when combined with benefits.”
[09:16] Jack Carr

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4. Strategic Recruitment Approaches

John and Jack delve into strategic recruitment methodologies, differentiating between planned and reactionary recruitment:

“Planned recruitment is like next June. I know that I have this many members. I'm roughly projected to have this many members.”
[20:27] Jack Carr

John acknowledges the necessity of a constant recruitment funnel to address both anticipated and unforeseen turnover:

“We've been optimizing... applicants are through the roof. The problem is actually the conversion between applicant putting application in and stepping in the door.”
[12:46] John Wilson

They emphasize the importance of always recruiting to maintain a steady flow of qualified candidates, thereby reducing the scramble to fill vacancies during peak times.

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5. Structuring the Recruitment Team for Efficiency

The hosts discuss the benefits of having specialized recruiters to handle different technical roles, enhancing the quality of hires:

“We have three recruiters... administrative recruiter handles office or offshore roles, while others specialize in plumbing, electrical, and HVAC.”
[25:02] Jack Carr

This specialization allows recruiters to develop a deeper understanding of the specific requirements and nuances of each technical discipline, leading to more effective placements.

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6. Budgeting and Recruitment Planning Based on Revenue Goals

A critical segment of the episode focuses on aligning recruitment efforts with revenue projections. John explains their budgeting process:

“We break down that revenue number or service number by the average ticket... and then we close that rate which then drives us backwards to how many leads we need.”
[36:07] John Wilson

Jack adds insights on utilizing historical data to inform hiring plans:

“We've been using Evoca AI for over a year and Tyson and the team have been incredible product partners... our hiring plan is based on our projected lead flow and conversion rates.”
[32:09] Jack Carr

This data-driven approach ensures that recruitment is proactive and aligned with the company’s growth objectives, mitigating the risk of understaffing or overhiring.

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7. Leveraging Technology and AI in Recruitment

The episode highlights the role of technology in streamlining recruitment processes. Tools like Service Titan and Evoca AI are discussed for their effectiveness in managing leads and automating job bookings:

“Service titan would be like... our funnel... How do we handle leads more effectively.”
[13:04] John Wilson

Jack notes the integration of AI-powered solutions to enhance lead management and conversion rates:

“Evoca AI helps us catch more after-hours calls, more weekend calls, and book more jobs automatically.”
[32:09] Jack Carr

Such technologies not only improve operational efficiency but also provide recruiters with better data to make informed hiring decisions.

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8. Overcoming Recruitment Challenges and Managing Turnover

Addressing unexpected resignations and maintaining a steady onboarding cycle is another key topic. Jack recounts a notable incident:

“Someone was smoking weed at work and got caught by a customer. He quit the next day... we have to replace that seat as soon as possible.”
[22:20] Jack Carr

The hosts discuss the importance of having a resilient recruitment strategy to swiftly address such incidents without disrupting business operations.

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9. Documenting and Standardizing Recruitment Processes

The necessity of thorough documentation and Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) in recruitment is emphasized. John shares his approach to creating detailed frameworks:

“We've taken clips from people who were successful... We have a lot of SOPs inside the quick staffers business, which then helps drive rapid response business.”
[29:00] John Wilson

Jack echoes the sentiment, stressing that well-documented processes ensure consistency and efficiency, especially when scaling recruitment efforts.

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10. Closing Thoughts and Final Tips

In their concluding remarks, John and Jack reiterate the importance of strategic, data-driven recruitment and maintaining a proactive approach to hiring. They encourage listeners to:

• Plan Recruitment Based on Revenue Goals: Align hiring plans with projected business growth to ensure adequate staffing.

• Specialize Recruitment Teams: Use specialized recruiters for different technical roles to enhance the quality of hires.

• Leverage Technology: Utilize AI and CRM tools to streamline lead management and recruitment processes.

• Document Processes: Establish comprehensive SOPs to maintain consistency and efficiency in recruitment.

John humorously remarks on the future influx of technicians with advancements in AI:

“Until AI turns, everyone into plumbers and then we just have a slew of plumbing and H vac and electricians beating down your door.”
[40:17] John Wilson

This light-hearted comment underscores the evolving landscape of the industry and the need for adaptable recruitment strategies.

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Notable Quotes:

• John Wilson: “How do you find good technicians? Most of them are already at Wilson company. So what does the process look like? Is there any secret sauce to getting a good technician at Wilson?”
  [00:00]

• Jack Carr: “Always be recruiting.”
  [00:13]

• Jack Carr: “H Vac is tough, plumbing's pretty consistent, but H Vac is like, Are you working 100 hours a week or are you working 20? That's tough.”
  [03:09]

• Jack Carr: “You need to do a lot of education because... you have to understand the math of your current compensation.”
  [08:02]

• Jack Carr: “Planned recruitment is next June. I know that I have this many members. I'm roughly projected to have this many members.”
  [20:27]

• John Wilson: “We've taken clips from people who were successful... We have a lot of SOPs inside the quick staffers business, which then helps drive rapid response business.”
  [29:00]

• John Wilson: “How do you find good technicians?... Is there any secret sauce to getting a good technician at Wilson?”
  [00:00]

---

Conclusion

Episode #221 of Owned and Operated provides a comprehensive exploration of the challenges and solutions related to hiring and retaining skilled technicians in the HVAC, plumbing, and electrical sectors. Through practical examples, strategic insights, and a focus on data-driven recruitment, John Wilson and Jack Carr offer actionable advice for home service business owners aiming to build and sustain a top-tier technical team. Whether you're grappling with high turnover rates or seeking to enhance your recruitment processes, this episode serves as an essential guide on the path to entrepreneurial success in the home services industry.

For more information and resources, visit www.ownedandoperated.com.

Transcript

[A]

How to hire technicians from start to finish. How do you find good technicians? Most of them are already at Wilson company. So what does the process look like? Is there any secret sauce to getting a good technician at Wilson?

[B]

I think people always say, like, always be recruiting. But like, let's go further on that. Welcome back to Owned and Operated. We're chilling, we're talking, we're about to dive into today is how to hire technicians.

[A]

How to hire technicians from start to finish.

[B]

Okay. What I mean, that's just okay.

[A]

Because like the back end, easy seven steps.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Backend's not too bad. It's like retention and, and how much we pay them and things like that. But the beginning is how do you find good technicians? Most of them are already at Wilson Co.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

I'm in Akron, Ohio. I'm like, man, I got two technicians. How do I get my third? I'm not gonna steal them from Wilson. Where am I gonna get them from?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So what does the process look like from the top to getting a good technician at Wilson? Because we don't do it right at Rapid. We're trying, but we're not there yet. Help out, John. Help the people.

[B]

Okay, Okay. I was nervous.

[A]

Okay. Like, oh gosh, that's a lot of responsibility. No, but, but like, seriously. So we're going through a process right now where we had one technician we had to let go for reasons, was our top tech, unfortunately. And then recently we had another tech or probably our second, maybe our third best tech out of five or six. He's leaving because the hours don't work for him, which he lives an hour away. Makes sense. But mostly like he has a big farm that he runs. So this is kind of, I don't want to say it's a side job. He's a really good technician. He's young, he's 19. He's bought, you know, a ton of stuff recently, like new truck, house, whatever. But he still has a farm that he runs and that's a big operation and he's not used to being away in the summer from the farm. And so I think that weighs really heavily on him. I don't blame him. I get it. That being said, I don't like it. I think it's a really short sighted move, but neither here nor there when it comes to hiring technicians. So we have a.

[B]

What can I ask? Like just like some dumb questions?

[A]

Yes, let's hit it.

[B]

How much money do your technicians make? Like lowest, highest. And pick a trade. H vac plumbing.

[A]

Yeah, I mean we'll focus on H Vac here. But they're making good money. Plumbers are making regularly upwards of 45 to 50 an hour. Some of it's dependent on commission.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the H Vac techs aren't far behind. They're just structured a little differently. And obviously we just came. He started with us in November, so we got to see that nice cold snap. But we didn't have an overly cold winter. And then he's been trudging through March, April in May.

[B]

I mean, May this year was.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, May. We had a blast of a May. Yeah, you guys had a cold front. We didn't.

[B]

We had some challenge with retainment in H vac during May because it was May and it was 40 degrees.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So we actually had a couple people like, switch careers, like fully, like out of H Vac, which, you know, it has happened almost annually because it's like H Vac is tough, plumbing's pretty consistent, but H Vac is like, Are you working 100 hours a week or are you working 20? That's tough. Are you looking to grow your home service business with a steady and predictable stream of high intent leads? Modernize helps contractors scale with four powerful tools. Inbound calls, live transfers, and branded programs, all designed to connect you with homeowners who are ready to start projects right now. They've delivered over 9 million leads, generated 4 billion in revenue, and support more than 25 trades across the country. Whether you've maxed out LSAs or you need leads to fill a revenue gap, Modernize is your growth lever from inquiry to install. Click the link below to start driving consistent growth with Modernize.

[A]

I think that was, that was a little bit of it. And so, I mean, he was generating $35 an hour plus after commissions, which is not amazing, but it's shoulder season and like going into the, like the boom months where he's going to make, you know, 40% in three months of his yearly salary is what I. And I explained that to him, but he's. He broke it down to jack. I had to pay someone on the farm $5,000 to pull this hay in for me because I'm working from. I leave my house at 7, start my first job at 8, and I don't get home till 6 or 7 at night. So, I mean, it is what it is. It's kind of the industry. Like you are going to work some OT in summer. It's summer. It's not crazy, but it was too much. So he's changing careers, he's going facilities maintenance, still fixing things. But he thinks it's going to be a strict date. It's not going to be a strict date. I've come from facilities maintenance.

[C]

But.

[B]

And the benefit of having a job for him is like consistency in the winter.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It must be off season around like the, the six to nine other months of the year that he needs it. So you know, it is what it is. It hurts because like you, you train somebody and you hold them through like the shoulder season. You make sure they have jobs and they're making money only for them to leave right before summer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's not personal.

[B]

A few times. Yeah. I think people are just living their life.

[A]

So what we're doing to try to fix that. Oh, do you have any more questions first? Well, well, I mean because it's not a money monetary.

[B]

So recruitment like I think if we sum up recruitment.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It, it's the same and I'm just going to always emphasize this. You got to think of it like these are your inside customers. It's a sales process. So are we being as thoughtful about our Google my business listings as we are how we show up to recruit routes?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So hey to customers we're 24 7. We're fair prices. You know, all the different like value adds. Like why choose Wilson if you're gonna pay us money? Well, same back for recruitment. Like why choose us? Great pay, great benefits.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

New vans, clean facilities, good uniforms. Like what, what are the, what are the things that you bring to the table? Flexible time off, a lot of holidays. I, I don't know what they are for you, but I think that's where I was going was like, hey, what's calm? Are the vans new? Are the benefits good? Like actually good comparison. Compare. Like I think like good for benefits isn't like are you investing a lot of money? It's are your competitors benefits?

[A]

Better question for you on that. I mean I had this very long discussion with our HR person. How do you view a benefits truthfully outside. Specifically outside of like health benefits and how much percentage you're paying versus how much percentage your team is paying. Do you view that as a high driver to your company.

[B]

Comes up a lot.

[A]

Does it? Because we were talking about things like life insurance and 401k match. I know we've had this chat offline on in some of our other groups and for us I don't have anyone who's ever asked about life insurance.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know, or dental or vision or it's like When a credit card company.

[B]

I thought you meant like, healthcare.

[A]

No, I mean like outside of healthcare. When a credit card company gives you, like, free rental insurance and you just never use it because you don't know it's there half the time. But also it's super low value in your life. Almost feel like some of the benefits that we provide are like that. And is there ways that we could showcase that and use that money towards other things? Yeah, but that's internally that we're dealing with. Do you see that?

[B]

That's a good question. I actually don't know. That's a good question. I think where we struggle is explaining benefit, like the benefit of the benefit, the cost of the benefits, even for compensation. Because what we really try to tie down is how much is someone actually making. So we have obviously a big team, and people are either on like a base plus commission or they're on a task pay model. And right now we have some people asking, like, they're on the task pay model and they want to go hourly, like the base plus commission. And you have to do a lot of education because if, like, hey, I will pay you less money if you want to be paid less money. Like, sure, great. But, like, you need to know that you're asking for $30 an hour, and right now you're making 60. Like, do you understand the math of your current compensation? And we find a lot of people don't. Like, they think. They think they're being dicked over or they think, like, a lot of different things. But then you. You start diving into it and it's like, oh, yeah, you make $65 an hour.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I don't know, like, I can help you do the math, but I don't know, like, that's what the compass. So we want to do the same with benefits, where we call it effective hourly rate. So, like, hey, yes, you get task pay or you get, like, base plus commission. But you know, if your base is 30 bucks an hour and your commission is $8,000 a month, you're not making $30 an hour. Yeah, like, you know, I hope you do the math, but you're not making 30 bucks an hour. What we're trying to nail down now is the effective hourly rate of the benefits. So, hey, if you're in that scenario, we can do the math, but someone's probably making 70, 80 bucks an hour. And so they're making 70, 80 bucks an hour compensation and then probably another $20 an hour of benefits. So it's a 200,000 investment into that person. So, yeah, that's something we're trying to work through now so people understand what's actually happening inside their compensation.

[A]

Are you planning to extrapolate that into, like, time off and flexible days or anything like that as well? I don't think that, you know, six days off would add that much to an hourly just because you're adding an extra, like, you know, six to 48 hours.

[B]

Well, there's six holidays, there's 10 vacation days.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it's probably something.

[B]

I mean, that's almost a month.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's three weeks.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, so just to step back, I mean, I. I think that we are doing a lot of the things correctly. We were trying within our means, because I do. I mean, Chris Hoffman talks about a lot. Like, he didn't start off day one offering everybody 100%. It takes a while to get there. We're doing the best we can in the situation, the size we are. We pay very, very well. A lot of it's heavy commission, which we have to be because I think that that's the way we flow. We don't really have issues with that.

[C]

Right.

[A]

This is kind of the first person that we ran into that we've actually got on board. Once they get on board, it's the explanation up front that's hard. Like, hey, this is your commission. This is what our other guys are doing.

[B]

$6,000 check, start clear.

[A]

They. They love it. It's not a big deal anymore.

[B]

Yeah, it's not.

[A]

It's just getting through that first phase. But now the question is, how do we hire better from the top? And so from what that looks like for me right now is we have a recruiter full time. And we are. We've been optimizing. So I was super embarrassed, actually, when we did the workshop last. I was like, sitting in the back while you're talking about recruiting and like, hey, let's look up what your company is. And let's look up. And you're like, I bet Jack's doing it wrong or something. I was like, no, I'm not, John. And I look it up and I'm like, let me see what mine's looking like. And you know, it was our. So when you buy a business, right, you don't actually buy the business name. You buy essentially a parent company and then DBA it or something of the sort. Right. They were running the ads under our parent company name. And so everybody. We have five locations, everybody on Google, like, they know rapid response people you could Google us and see our thousands of reviews that we have. When you Google the parent company, it's.

[B]

Like Jack cars, you get nothing.

[C]

Llc.

[A]

No Google business, no anything. And so like that was a big wake up call that I needed to step up and own this department more on the hiring side. But we went through and fixed that and we've got our applicants are through the roof. The recruiter is doing an amazing job at bringing those in. The problem is actually the conversion between applicant putting application in and stepping in the door.

[B]

Yeah. Sit rate.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So, okay, so you have a good. So I'm just gonna make the sales. Yeah, yeah, you have a good book rate.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

Book in the first call. But they cancel.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

So if, yeah, that makes sense. So then like you know, if, if, if we're just unpacking this the same way that we unpack a service call.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, well what do we do in between that? Screening phone call which like customer calls in, they have a problem. We book the appointment. That's the screening call. We're going to go out the next day. What happens when they get a video or they get an email saying like hey, here's Wilson, here's what we're all about. Here's what to expect on your service call. So we have value builds in there to make sure that they really understand it's. It's a book rate problem. You have the book right to sit rate problem.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like every sales organization is that.

[A]

So we fixed. Yeah, that makes sense. We fixed the key component which was like, hey, they can actually google and see who we are but that's the expectation that they're going to do the work rather than you removing some of that friction and saying hey, we have your email. We're to going send you this off. This is what a day in the life looks like. This is why you want to work here. This is the reasons behind everything to make sure that they're coming in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That'S pretty simple too.

[B]

Yeah. And then once they get in, it's the same thing, you know, nextar, like we're next. Our members for certain path members. Yeah, I know there's others out there, but those are the two that we're members of. You've got the like six steps. Like hey, make sure you park at the right spot. Knock on the door. Right. Here's how you greet. Same thing with an interview. Like we've talked about our process for interviews, but we have a six step like hey, we're gonna sit here, we're gonna Talk about our core values. We're gonna walk over here, talk about your growth plan. We're gonna look at the call center. We're gonna go now. We just put this review wall in.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is super cool.

[B]

That's really cool. So, like, hey, here's the training room. We invest in you. Here's the review wall. Our customers love us. Here's the warehouse. You'll always be taken care of.

[A]

Boom.

[B]

Interview. So that's six steps of, you know, closing each objection door.

[A]

Which is cool because we've been. We've been building that for customer retention or internal customer retention policy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like we built the training room to try and do this. We put in VMI to try and do this. Or as partially for convenience sake. Right. Because VMI is helpful to have stuff on site, but it's not so incredibly helpful above and beyond outside of. Hey, it's really, really convenient for technicians and for.

[B]

They love it. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You as. As the owner. And so that's interesting.

[B]

We have.

[A]

We just got it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's. We're like a step below. So it's not vendor managed inventory. It's.

[B]

I mean, Ghost warehouse. Love a good. We actually, we. Over the years, it's been. It's been a while. Two years. But we used to lose tax because we couldn't keep a good warehouse.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like it matters. You. You know.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I need to take a revid.

[B]

It's going to inconvenience their day. It's going to inconvenience their. Like it matters. It's a real issue.

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

We lost some in H Vac. We just, like, we're the studio. Like this for the listener, I guess. But we have two buildings. It's like a campus now. And there's a. The building we're in is the H VAC building. We just took it over in January. We put a lot into it. There's a second VMI that's just H Vac, which, like, that's a. You know, on the table. And then there's equipment in the back. So like H VAC building.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is pretty fun. And that was a big win because before that we were losing H Vac rightfully. So, like, we were doing a bad job. We were losing H Vac techs to like, no equipment on site, not enough equipment. They had to wait around too long. And they're being paid. Task pay.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So like, hey, these guys are like, you know, task pay. The benefit to the company is downtimes covered. You know your exact Cost of margin. So it's a win for the company and for the tax technician, they make a well above normal hourly rate. So, like, should be a win. Win. But if we up our part, like, they have a right to be annoyed.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think that's probably honestly a big portion of our miss on the back end is not.

[B]

It's tough.

[A]

It's not that specific example, but it's, it's going through, improving. Right. As a technician, what are your big three worries? It's like, hey, I'm not gonna have enough jobs. You have me on commission. So how do you prove to the technician in the interview that you'll have enough jobs? We pull up service they're holding and so that, that's like, hey, locking down that process so that they're able to see it.

[B]

Some of it's confidence.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

To confidence of like the interviewer.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But like, how do you explain it? But when I was doing interviews, I would pull up service Titan. Now I'm actually not sure what they do, but like, we, if someone asked us if we were slow now, we would have almost too sophisticated of an answer.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, I, I don't.

[B]

Like, we would start walk. Like, if someone asked me that, I would start walking through our funnel, which I don't think would be helpful.

[A]

That's not the right way.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I think just showing Service titan would be like. Yeah.

[A]

Realistically though, I think at a point it's less like you don't become a 2A campus business if you don't have enough.

[B]

Yeah. I think people ask us a lot less than they use.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But I'm also not in the interview, so I don't know.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

As a smaller company, I think it comes up more like, hey, am I going to get laid off in three months when it's shoulder season?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So. But yeah, so it's, it's going through, it sounds like. And really hitting the big reasons for why the text should work for you guys. Taking their objections and then.

[B]

And figuring out ways to close them as a process.

[A]

As a process versus as waiting for them to ask.

[B]

Right. And what I would do is move upstream from the recruitment process. What we've done is we have our HR stack, we have HR generalists. So she heads up that team and she has three recruiters reporting to her. Chrissa, Abby and Diane. What's up, guys? You guys are great. I think they listen and they are great. They're awesome. And so they report and what we provide them with is you don't have to do it annually like we do, but you can. We provide them with an annual budget of hires. So basically in October I'm going to be working on 2026's hiring plan, which I understand is like a big lift. You know, who knows? Obviously there's a lot to figure out. Yeah, you have some, like how much are we going to retain? How much? You know, there's a lot going on there, but we do our best. I don't think it's perfect, but we do our best. But that gives recruiting time to plan because recruiting. We're just going to make this marketing again because I think this is going to help people. I think people always say like always be recruiting but like let's go further on that. Almost a double click. But I knew John would make fun of me.

[A]

It's no secret that my office here in Nashville is almost completely empty. So how do I support my team as well as have great growth metrics? Well, the answer is international contractors with Quick Staffers. So Quick Staffers is a premier staffing agency which will place top tier talent in your business. Built by the trades for the trades. So if you need a csr, they'll be placing a. A CSR that is highly trained in your business, that knows service titan and can book calls effectively. Day 1 Call 1. Affordable, reliable and trained in all of the industry best practices. Quick Staffers can help you cut that overhead, boost conversions and scale your business fast. So don't waste another lead. Visit quickstaffers.com and transform your business today.

[B]

So always recruiting. So there's planned recruitment and there's reactionary recruitment. That's how we think about it. Planned recruitment is next June. I know that I have this many members. I'm roughly projected to have this many members. I can be off by a little bit. But like a guess is, you know, directionally correct is better than not trying. So I will need 12 H VAC service techs in team. Yeah, that's somebody we have.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm just saying if you went, if you need another 12, that would be.

[B]

Oh, oh yeah, that would be inconvenient. But yeah, so. So hey, we need 12, right? Right now we have eight or nine. So like you know, you figure out where you are, where you want to be and if it's planned, then they have months to figure it out. They have months to ramp up their outbound effort, figure out their communication post jobs everywhere and that is how we have had the most success.

[A]

Is there any secret sauce which Makes like that all makes sense. Right? Is once again be intentional about how you're doing and planning and you have the reactionary ones.

[B]

I know that I need leads in December. So it's like branding versus lead gen. Yeah, so like branding. I'm investing branding dollars today to get leads next March. Makes sense. It's going to rise the rise all boats. Lead gen is I need leads today. So it's sort of the same thing. You have the plan, you have this long term, let's keep the cycle going, let's go. And then you have the reactionary, like, hey, so and so just quit today. Yeah, sorry, I just remembered like a. A quit story. Someone we hired somebody like a month ago and they. They were literally smoking weed. Weed is legal in Ohio.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I don't, like, I've never had a thing with weed. But like, smoking weed at work is like, all right.

[A]

Probably frowned upon.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So like this dude's lighting up in a customer's house and the customer catches him. We catch him and we're like, hey, man, you're going to need to do a drug. Like it was a she said, he said type thing. He's like, I want to smoke weed. Customer said, that was. That was weed. It was absolutely weed. You can walk in my house. It was weed. So we were like, hey, we're going to need a drug test. Like she's thing. And he, he, he quit the next day. He's like, well, if you guys are looking over my shoulder, I'm like, you're lighting a blunt in someone's house, dude. Like, yeah, we're going to ask about it.

[A]

They were not looking over your shoulder, everybody.

[B]

Yeah, the, the text was. It was hilarious. Well, if people are going to look. If you guys micromanage here.

[A]

What the are you talking about?

[B]

That was crazy. So, yeah. So, hey, weed guy in the basement quit today. We gotta replace that seat as soon as possible. So part of the, part of the best part of like recruiting all the time and using a plan strategy is you can pull up hires faster and react faster because it takes 60 days to place. Like, it's 60 days.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So there's no, like shortcut to that that I, that I could find. I mean, we have signing bonuses, but, you know, if I need. Yeah, it's hard. And I think also just really creating a cycle of onboarding. Like, we onboard every two weeks period, and every cohort is three to five people. Yeah, it's every two weeks because we have some planned turnover. We have some regrettable Turnover. Company hits a certain size, people just have to leave for.

[A]

It's a numbers game. Yeah, there's. It's a numbers game.

[B]

We've had two people lose a parent.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

In a different state in the last 30 days. Nothing to do with us. They had to go be with their family. Makes total sense. So, like, it just happens. So, like, you have to keep this constant funnel. You have to keep going. So planning recruitment over the course of a year, setting really hard. Like we will onboard every two weeks and don't like break that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it really gets hairy when you break outside of those two weeks. Like we do a terrible job onboarding. Once we call them off cycles.

[C]

They're.

[B]

They're rough.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And with that though. So is there any strategy that, that you give. So recruiters, Right. They naturally have the ability to go into the back end of LinkedIn or they're using, you know. Indeed. Plus or whatever.

[B]

The.

[A]

The expanded model is smart service and they're going in and actively messaging people. What. What is this the best strategy that you found that actually works to have recruiters do just utilizing everything at their disposal?

[B]

Yeah, I think dream scenario. I, you know, I'm all about the generalist to specialist to expert thing.

[C]

Y.

[B]

So you have one recruiter.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

On one hand, like, it's always fun just like looking at it from different sides.

[A]

I think you just say something insulting right now. Is that why you're prefacing that I'm.

[B]

Not going to say something?

[A]

You only have one.

[B]

No, I'm not.

[A]

We should have a $40 million business. You could have three.

[B]

I was not. I mean, I can. I. I'll toss a couple. I'll toss a couple here. I'll just like sling them.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. So on one hand, that person is a specialist because they're not like your call taker.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Doing recruitment or like a service manager or.

[A]

Yeah, they're not. It's not an HR person who's doing.

[B]

HR specializing in that role. So, like from a high level, you have a specialist, you can go deeper.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And like, you can go much deeper, which is like, that's. I think that's the funny thing when, whenever you unpack these, like, different roles, that's what I think is kind of fun is, hey, I just brought on this specialist. Like, yeah, this is awesome. And then you start diving deeper and you're like, well, they're recruiting office staff, plumbers, electricians, H Vac. Are they a specialist or are they a generalist now?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so what we've done is we've taken that a little bit of a step further. And we have three recruiters. We have an administrative recruiter. So that's in office or offshore is all done through that recruiter we keep. And that's much more reactive. As you can imagine, it is hilariously simple to place administrative positions versus, like, a technician. So that's a pretty, like, high churn, you know, thing. And it's just a distraction because of how easy it is. Like, if I gave an administrative position to a plumbing or H vac refiner, it's so easy. That's all they want to do. Because it's so easy. Yeah, it's just so easy. Like, we'll do a higher in, like, 30 minutes, you know, versus, like, you know, it takes.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

It takes work on plumbing. And then the other ones, we divided plumbing and electric and H vac and drains, I think, are the two different ways to do it. And we did that because H vac and drains both have service sales and install, and plumbing has sales and install. Electric has sales and install.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So we tried to give them, like, four to six positions total to recruit for, I think. Each.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's, you know, they basically handle 15 positions, which is, to me, kind of a lot. Anything outside of that, like, sort of bespoke stuff, leadership positions, I get. I get a lot more involved in. Yeah. So recruitment, you can go deeper. And. And that's where we also found success, too, was, hey, if. If this person's looking at H vac service resumes all day long, talking to H vac service guys all day long, she's gonna have a better feel.

[A]

Much better.

[B]

Much better feel.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I know we. We have noticed that is that there's a little bit. That we get a lot of them. There's a lot of mediocre quality y. It's not necessarily the person's fault.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Because like you said, they're doing admin and they're doing plumbing, and they're doing H vac and they're doing, you know, this. These myriad of positions. And so to know the specifics, to know if an H Vac person is good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is much more difficult than just, like, random. Hey.

[B]

And we're at the size where we had to. I think about this a lot too, where Tommy Melo, he described a lot phase that I'm in right now.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Where, like, they had to take a year and document everything.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I mean, shit, you wouldn't have thought even made sense. And literally, how do you Tell A good resume is a thing that we've had to document.

[A]

So we should do a whole episode on this. Because I think about this more than you could imagine.

[B]

I don't even think it's relevant yet.

[A]

I think about this so much.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think. I think. Well, let me preface this. It's super boring.

[B]

It's so boring. But I'm bored out of my mind.

[A]

So the reason I think about it has to happen more than you do is because A, it has to happen. B, I utilize a lot more offshore talent in a lot higher positions than you do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So like my call center managers offshore. All my call centers offshore. Like inside sales is offshore. Hr specialist, recruiter. All offshore. So, like everything.

[B]

You should launch offshore recruiting. Recruiting.

[A]

Oh, that sounds like it'd be fun.

[B]

I know. I saw this domain name recently that was available. Is it Quick Staffers?

[A]

Oh, no, that one's gone. Yeah, somebody. Somebody quickly grabbed that one.

[B]

Some ball Nashville. There you go. There's your first install that's lying your way.

[A]

I appreciate it. Thanks.

[B]

But I have two more.

[A]

I think that's like backhanded somewhere along the line. But, you know, I'm okay with it.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, I think there's a compliment. It was partial. But point being is that because of that, I do a lot more documenting just because I can't afford to have like the water cooler conversations and. Yeah. So point being is that all. Like, there's a lot more that needs to be documented and I'm even trying to take that step further and going like, how do I hire? I know you were talking about a long time ago, years ago.

[B]

Process. Business process. Yeah, there's a title for it. Business Process Strategist or something.

[A]

But yeah, somebody just that goes through and just really documents down everything. And with AI now, it's a lot easier than it used to be. Like a lot of times I can go in there and at least get a framework and then I can type everything out. Or now what we've been doing is training. Like our HR rep, who has never really used AI, is now really good at creating those frameworks and then typing out what needs to happen. So awesome. AI is amazing for that. It's getting better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, we should definitely do a full episode on that one day.

[B]

It's a lot. But yeah, you end up. You end up creating a lot of stops around it, including like, what does a good resume look like? What do we look for? Here's the three indicators that this is worth the screening call yeah.

[A]

Because we had to do that for quick staffers. That's what I'm bringing it up. It's like we had to break down, like, what makes a good interview. What do good interviews sound like? So we took clips from people who were successful. This is what somebody oversees. Who is considered a 10 out of 10. Here's a 9 out of 10. 8 out of 10. 7.

[B]

I don't know if we've gone that far. That's a good.

[A]

So we've taken those. Make them list so that they can listen to them and they can hear. Because if you're from overseas, hiring overseas, you don't necessarily understand, like, what makes good.

[B]

Yeah, the nuance.

[A]

Yeah, nuance. And so we. We've done that. So we've done, like, a lot of SOPs inside the quick staffers business, which then helps drive rapid response business in the same way. Just like recruiter sops cut over things like that. So I'd love to deep dive that one day because that would be super interesting to me on, like, what else you're doing and how else that fits. Because I think that as you grow, like, that's huge. But back to recruiter. Sorry. And talent acquisition.

[B]

Yeah. So we got top of funnel setting that plan. It's even like, it's the planning stage before you even go to the job post. So step one, plan. Who do you need a year out from now? And that if. That. If you're listening and you're like, I don't know, like, that sounds like hard work, then that's definitely the first place you should start. Like, you need to sit down and, like, start to think about it. Because I know that I always. It's the same with financial budgets. I was like, always. We're growing too fast for that.

[A]

Well, how do you do it, John?

[B]

I grew 30% this year and we budgeted it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

How do you do it, though? Because I know we do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

By like, we have our goal that we're trying to meet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We break that down into what it looks like monthly based on the percent of revenue that should come into by month. Then we break that down into division. How much should H Vac do? How much should plumbing do? Then we break that down into. Well, what does that mean on a. We sell 70% install, 30% service. So how many calls do we need or how many jobs booked do we need on installs? And we break that down even further and. Well, we have to run four service calls for every job, for every install. And so we just, like, Work it all the way back. And what we end up getting to is like, oh, we're short 1.3 technicians or short 2.2 technicians. So to, to succeed next year, like that's what that's going to look like. And let's look at it on a monthly basis so we know when to hire that person.

[B]

We've been using Evoca AI for over a year and Tyson and the team have just been incredible product partners. We've been able to catch more after hours calls, more weekend calls, and book more jobs automatically. Make sure you click the link below and tell them we sent you. We do the same. Yeah, we just start from the other side.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I think one of us is going backwards. Who knows?

[A]

Oh, let's, let's have another on air argument. It's probably me. Who knows?

[B]

I'm not going to throw any punches. Who knows?

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But one of us is going backwards.

[A]

I'm curious.

[B]

He might be bald.

[A]

Don't let me bust out that bald cap for you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Where'd that go? Well, here I. Here, I must ask you a question.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So we do the same thing. We just like literally flip it. So it starts with number of leads.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

It's a little bit more predictable.

[A]

That makes sense.

[B]

So if, if I think about what is revenue? Revenue is number of jobs times closing rate times average ticket. That's it.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

So budgeting. So starting with a revenue first budget doesn't make a lot of sense because then we're guessing at three factors. Whereas, like we kind of know two of these three factors already. Like if you've been on a CRM for a while, like you can pull your historical, like maybe it's improving your average ticket. Like you can figure it out. So when we're looking at average ticket, what Was the last 12 months? What was the last 90 days? Assuming that we've made operational enhancements in the last 90 days. So like we're gonna, we're gonna say, hey, the last 90 days is probably the most accurate for the next 12 months. Our closing rate, last 12 months, last 90 days. Assuming we've made enhancements. So let's like maybe improve that another point or two to set a goal. But we think it'll, hey, if my closing rate is 52% in plumbing, I think I can be at 55. That's the budget. Number of leads we pull, number of leads by department, historical. And we look at a couple years of growth and then that's where you make assumptions. But the first two, you don't really make assumptions. It's sort of like I don't know what I'm doing.

[A]

When we work backwards, we don't make those assumptions either though. Right. So like when I utilize, hey, we do 70% in installs, 30% revenue.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like then we break down that revenue number or service number by the average ticket. So that's going to be worth approximately X percent of the revenue.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So like we, and we close that X rate which then drives us backwards to how many leads we need. I think you're just the actual reason why yours is the correct way is because you are owning the lead gen side versus saying how many leads you need side. So like ours is more of a pie in the sky. We have to hit 6 million for whatever random reason we need to drive this many leads. This many need to be marketing. This many need to be TGL flips. This many need to be just raw leads and we close at this rate. So like we use all that same information. But I think that we're, we're using that to drive how much we need on the front. You're using how much you need how much you have on the front and how much you know you can get on the front to drive what you're going to do on the back, which is the right way.

[B]

Well, and it lets you change the target.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because then you could turn the dial on this side and do versus like guess and say okay, I need to drive, you know, 70 more leads here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's trying to hit the goal of lead generation versus using the goal of lead generation revenue.

[B]

But yes, like absolutely, it's, it's taking control over leads which everyone has control over leads. You just got to figure it out. But you got it. And then hey, if, if I, If I budget 52% close rate, then this is what the revenue outcome is. But what if we train a bunch and we do a bunch of ride alongs and we invest in AI ride along and instead of 55, we're at 60. Well the revenue impact is like millions of dollars. So that's a part of why we like going bottom up is because if you're using KPIs to budget, then when you, hey, if my average ticket rose by 50 bucks, that's a $3 million difference. Like literal $3 million difference. So when you're looking, when you're, when you're measuring like that, you get to see, hey, this is what this enhancement looks like. Now how do we go chase that? How do we get 60% close rate? How do we add $50 to average ticket? Is that a price increase? Is that new services? Definitely market.

[A]

It's interesting. I think we need to. I'm going to retry the exercise from bottom up instead and see we have.

[B]

Most of the data.

[A]

We have all the data.

[B]

You have all the data. So you look at years of leads, you get. Now leads is where you have to assume that you will succeed. And this year we were a little bit more cautious. Didn't end up being necessary because we killed it. But we were very. We were. We were really concerned in October that with like AI coming to search and like, what that was going to do to Google's lead flow, which seven, eight months ago, Google was 60% of our leads. No longer, but that was a real concern. So we were like, okay, we have to be conservative on our leads. Um, but the other ones were like, kind of. It was. It was almost embarrassing how straightforward it was.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's like, this is our close rate and I didn't have to make something up.

[A]

Yeah, Always feels good. Sweet. So we've broken down the recruitment process to.

[B]

Well, sorry, we got onto that because we're talking about budgeting for hires. So that's how you do it. You roughly figure out how many leads you're going to have to run next June so you can figure out the team size that you need. It might be off by one or two.

[A]

And to extrapolate a step further, you also, like, you will have a ratio of service techs to installers. I mean, that should actually tell you. So you don't even need to extrapolate because you'll know how many units you're selling and how many physical could go in in this period of time and how many people need to do that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So sweet. Yeah, super helpful. I think that's really in depth on recruiting.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I think like everything else that comes out to be just. Yeah, branding and sales, just like every other part of the business. It's like, how do you brand yourself and sell yourself as a company to. To your technicians?

[B]

And like, is what you're offering to the market good? Like, is your position good? Is your comp.

[A]

Until AI turns, everyone's into plumbers and then we just have a slew of plumbing and H vac and electricians beating down your door.

[B]

Kind of feel like to take over.

[A]

Hey, that's what they're saying. That's not me. This is not Jackson. That's what the interwebs is saying.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Just like the only jobs will be hands on jobs, which everyone goes straight to plumber.

[A]

So that'll be the day.

[B]

That's gonna be. That's gonna be interesting. We'll see.

[A]

We'll see. Sweet, man. That was good. I appreciate it. If you like what you heard, I will.

[B]

I will sub.

[A]

You will sub. I'll sub to this one.

[B]

I'll sub. I'll sub to this. I would like this video too.

[A]

If you like what you heard. You like that John said that I was right for once. Do you like that he said that he loves my bald head. You don't remember saying any of that? Oh, well. If you like any of that, subscribe and follow for more.

[B]

And make sure you check out the [e-mail].