#226 HVAC Owner Makes $4M/Month (Here’s How)

Summary

Owned and Operated - Episode #226: HVAC Owner Makes $4M/Month (Here’s How)
Release Date: July 22, 2025
Hosts: John Wilson and Jack Carr

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of "Owned and Operated," host John Wilson welcomes Brian from T.R. Miller, an accomplished HVAC business owner who is on the verge of achieving an impressive $4 million in monthly revenue. The discussion delves deep into the strategies, challenges, and insights that have propelled Brian's business to this remarkable milestone.

Breaking Down the $4 Million Month

John Wilson opens the conversation by expressing his eagerness to understand the intricacies behind Brian’s $4 million month. He probes into various aspects such as seasonality, membership models, and managing an HVAC business at scale.

John Wilson (00:00): "You're about to hit $4 million a month. I want to understand the $4 million month. I want to understand the seasonality, I want to understand the memberships and like, how you're managing an HVAC business at scale."

Brian emphasizes the critical role of retention rates of field professionals in achieving such high revenue.

Brian (00:10): "Retention rates of field pros. I think that's where the magic is. The thing that we've been super focused on the last two years is career progression for our field pros..."

Diversifying Revenue Streams

Brian shares his business evolution, highlighting that they initially focused solely on HVAC until 2020, when they expanded into plumbing, sewer, and electrical services. This diversification has been pivotal in stabilizing monthly revenues, with plumbing contributing approximately $1 million monthly.

Brian (01:32): "Plumbing will probably, I would say month over month is about a..., I would say probably a million month over month between our plumbing service install and like our sewer teams."

Managing Seasonality

Seasonality poses a significant challenge, particularly in months like February and March, where HVAC demand typically dips. Brian outlines strategies to mitigate these slow periods:

1. Flexible Scheduling: Increasing the number of install trucks from 5-6 to 10 during peak months to handle higher demand.
2. Shift Management: Implementing varied shifts, such as AM and PM shifts, and extending workdays to maximize technician bandwidth.
3. Membership Models: Creating membership programs to ensure consistent work for team members year-round, thereby maintaining steady revenue streams.

Brian (02:31): "Some of the things we've thought about over the years is, like, what's our minimum hours per technician, minimum calls and then where do we, where can we flex up to?"

Increasing Operational Capacity

To handle peak seasons effectively, Brian discusses operational adjustments:

• Additional Installations: Technicians are trained to handle multiple systems a day, transitioning smoothly between tasks.

  John Wilson (06:01): "Are your installed crews running several systems a day?"

  Brian (06:05): "The way we think about it, yeah, the answer is yeah."

• Maximizing Call Efficiency: Maintaining high-quality service by ensuring thorough inspections to minimize callbacks, thereby preserving brand reputation and customer satisfaction.

  Brian (11:00): "We still need to do thorough inspections because we can't have callbacks either because that's bad for brand reputation as well and customer service."

Sales Strategies: Comfort Advisors vs. Selling Techs

Brian elaborates on the hybrid sales model his company employs, which integrates Comfort Advisors and selling technicians. This approach ensures higher conversion rates and accurate sales, as Comfort Advisors focus solely on selling, while technicians handle installations.

Brian (12:05): "We're a hybrid. So we do have comfort advisors... And some of our sales model is in the home. We do have one selling tech or two selling techs."

This model contrasts with traditional methods where technicians also handle sales, often leading to inconsistent sales quality and misplaced offerings.

Brian (14:24): "We just know we have higher conversions if we're in the home with a Comfort Advisor... And we're selling the right stuff."

Retention Through Career Progression

A cornerstone of Brian's success is his focus on career progression for field professionals. By providing clear career paths and professional development opportunities, Brian ensures high retention rates, reducing the constant need for hiring and training new technicians.

Brian (22:04): "It's not only how can I flex up? ... how can we really retain these?"

John echoes the importance of career mapping, sharing his experience with developing a career ladder that offers both vertical and horizontal growth opportunities within a large team.

John Wilson (26:05): "We created a map that shows it. So, like, here's where you start... Here's where you can grow with Wilson."

Leveraging Technology and Process Optimization

Brian credits the use of dispatch software and automation in improving operational efficiency. By automating call assignments, the company optimizes technician schedules, ensuring maximum productivity without overburdening the team.

Brian (21:43): "We use software to automate that whole process of like, what should the next call be? I think has really helped our bandwidth."

Overcoming Competitive Challenges

The episode also touches on competition within the HVAC industry, highlighting how companies like Four Seasons and Heartland employ aggressive sales and pricing strategies. Brian discusses the importance of maintaining competitive pricing models while ensuring quality service to sustain long-term profitability.

Brian (17:54): "They have a comfort advisor team of like 20 to 30 or if not more, maybe 50, who knows where."

Key Takeaways

1. Diversification is Crucial: Expanding service offerings beyond HVAC stabilizes revenue and reduces reliance on seasonal demand.
2. Retention Over Recruitment: Focusing on career progression and employee satisfaction significantly lowers turnover rates.
3. Flexible Operations: Implementing flexible scheduling and shift systems enhances capacity during peak seasons without compromising service quality.
4. Hybrid Sales Models: Combining Comfort Advisors with selling technicians increases conversion rates and ensures appropriate service offerings.
5. Technological Integration: Utilizing dispatch software and automation tools optimizes operational efficiency and technician deployment.
6. Competitive Positioning: Maintaining competitive yet profitable pricing strategies is essential in a highly competitive market.

Notable Quotes

• John Wilson (00:00): "You're about to hit $4 million a month. I want to understand the $4 million month."
• Brian (02:31): "How can we really retain technicians the best of your ability during February or March?"
• Brian (11:00): "We still need to do thorough inspections because we can't have callbacks either because that's bad for brand reputation as well and customer service."
• John Wilson (26:05): "We created a map that shows it. So, like, here's where you start... Here's where you can grow with Wilson."

Conclusion

Brian's insights into scaling an HVAC business to achieve $4 million monthly revenue provide a valuable blueprint for entrepreneurs in the home services industry. By prioritizing employee retention, diversifying services, leveraging technology, and adopting effective sales strategies, Brian demonstrates a comprehensive approach to sustainable business growth. Listeners are encouraged to implement these strategies to unlock their own business's potential for success.

For more in-depth discussions and actionable advice, visit www.ownedandoperated.com.

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Follow Brian on Twitter (@BrianTRMiller) for more industry insights and updates.

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Transcript

[A]

You're about to hit $4 million a month. I want to understand the $4 million month. I want to understand the seasonality, I want to understand the memberships and like, how you're managing an H Vac business at scale.

[B]

Retention rates of field pros. I think that's where the magic is. The thing that we've been super focused on the last two years is career progression for our field pros is like, how can we take them from no experience a level one, and how can we objectively make them into a level five foreign.

[A]

Welcome back to Owned and Operated Today. I have my friend Brian from T.R. miller on. Welcome to the show.

[B]

Appreciate you having me, man. I appreciate the tour.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. No, this is good. I mean, you were just on over Zoom, but you were just on two months ago, three months ago, six months ago.

[B]

It might have been six months at this point. Yeah.

[A]

But, you know, we could.

[B]

You invited me back, though.

[A]

I did. I did invite you back. You're about to hit 4 million dollar month.

[B]

Yeah, we are.

[A]

That's pretty legendary.

[B]

Appreciate that. Yeah.

[A]

And that's. Yeah, that's what we're going to dive into today. I want to understand selfishly, like, you're running an H Vac business at scale. I want to under. I want to understand the $4 million month. I want to understand the seasonality. I don't understand the memberships and like, how you're managing an H VAC business at scale.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Well, we started off as H vac, so that's where we kind of cut our teeth. So, so up into 2020, that's really all we knew before we added like plumbing, sewer and electrical now.

[A]

So it was 2020 that you added plumbing?

[B]

Yup.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How big is plumbing now?

[B]

Plumbing will probably, I would say month over month is about a. I would say probably a million month over month between our plumbing service install and like our sewer teams.

[A]

It does a million a month or.

[B]

It does, yeah, yeah, it does about.

[A]

A million a month. Yeah. So that's a $10 million business, $12 million business.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. We've been super lucky. I mean, part of H Vac, the hardest part is like, how can you diversify your revenue? Especially I mean, in H Vac, you know, I mean, we still face it to this day. We'll kind of jump into the four million dollar month. But like, you know, our month over month, like if, you know, in January, February, March, you know, our budgets were $2 million a month.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, because H Vac is so dominant yeah.

[A]

And half of that being plumbing. So H VAC really just tanks off.

[B]

It does. Especially, you know, we always struggle. February, March, just the seasonality. And so the biggest challenge for us is how can you really, how can you retain technicians the best of your ability during February or March?

[A]

We struggled a lot with that this year.

[B]

Yeah, it's hard. Right?

[A]

It's like everyone gets real squirrely because like calls aren't there. It's a lot of maintenances.

[B]

Yeah. Cause they'll run like. Yeah. And so some of the things we've thought about over the years is, you know, like what's our minimum hours per technician, minimum calls and then where do we, where can we flex up to? Because really the trick to H Vac is being able. The flexibility or the bandwidth is like, how can I create maximum bandwidth?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

During peak, you know, we're in a peak week right now. You know, it's, it's the end of June and how can you peak from, you know, let's say on average running 40, 50 calls per day with a service unit up to 120 calls per day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and just having that flexibility and that bandwidth is important for the H Vac side.

[A]

FieldPulse is the all in one field management solution for growing home service companies. FieldPulse is designed to simplify your day to day operations by combining everything you need into one platform. It also includes integrations to help you save time like QuickBooks, desktop and online. It has a bunch of advanced tools and features like a CRM, estimates and invoicing, good, better best options, maintenance plans, a robust price book and scheduling dispatching. FieldPulse will transform the way that you manage your field team altogether. It will save you time and find revenue that you didn't even know existed. Whether you're a small company looking to grow or a larger company Looking to optimize, FieldPulse has the tools that you need to do it. And don't just take our word for it. FieldPulse has earned over 580 glowing reviews with an average rating of 4.8 stars. That's Field EU LSE. Head to their website to learn more. Fieldpulse.com this was a lesson I got a good taste for. I visited Jimmy at Baker and I am good friends with RJ from Sierra in Vegas and they really. And you guys might be doing this too. But they, they were, their install teams were so flexible they could go from one install a day to three full systems a day. And I think it was the Same thing. Like, how do you sort of manage that low time and. And be able to triple your output during peak?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. So I would say, like, you know, in February, March, we were probably running on like, five or six install trucks, and now we're at 10 install trucks. You know, a few months later. Some of it is. Is hiring, like, we do a lot of our hiring practices in like, the February, March, April, you know, if someone, you know, unfortunately decides to leave the team in, like, December, we might wait until, like, you know, let's. Let's find a new team member, but let's start for like, April 1st. So that's a little bit of the strategy. And some of it, too, is field supervisors. We still haven't solved this, but I think we're further today than we were a couple years ago. Is. Is what is the role of a field supervisor? And so not saying it's right or wrong, but how we've kind of thought about it is, you know, during the slow time, that's when it's the time to work on the business. You know, that's the one on ones that's, you know, documenting processes. What's our, you know, our refrigeration. What's our heat exchanger process? That's the time is when it's slow, but when it's peak, hey, it's time to go get back in the truck. And so a lot of our field supervisors have stepped up, especially in the sea wave, and, you know, hey, let's go do an install for the day. You know, that's another truck on the road. Or let's go run more service calls. So we've, we've pushed and our field supervisors have elected to go and because, you know, so many customers, you know, don't have cooling right now. And so how can we increase our bandwidth there too, has been part of our strategy.

[A]

Yeah. Are your installed crews running several systems a day?

[B]

The way we think about it, yeah. The answer is yeah. So in an H vac, install crew might do an H vac. So furnace air conditioner typically getting done between 4 and 5, like, PM or hours. I'm sorry, 4 or 5pm okay. Yep. And then they'll do like, an air conditioner after.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It's like system and a half. Yeah, that's where we're at right now is system and a half.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

It seems like it's a big transition to two.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Yeah. Just like, hard, like, there's a lot more. Like, people start running, like, QAs or they start. What Sierra was doing was, I think it was five hundred or a thousand. It was something. But for every additional system you installed after the first, you get an extra, let's just say 500 bucks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Each, like, helper and lead. So then, you know, the. Their installers, during peak season, putting three systems in a day are making, like, $4,000 a day.

[B]

Like, that's crazy.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Are you hiring?

[B]

Yeah. Because, I mean, the byproduct is where we're at today is like, we have a week's worth of backlog.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. And the. The real issue at hand is. Is that's awesome. Sales teams pumped. They're selling jobs, shooting fish in a barrel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then boom, Customer calls and cancels.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They found someone that could do it sooner. And so that's like, in the. These peak. These peak months is like, how can I prevent my cancellation rates from, like, spiking? Or how can we still do these installs we're selling?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know that. That's the. That's the challenge right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a good challenge to have. No, you know, with that.

[A]

It totally is. I think it's just funny that, you know, you talk to, like, Baker brothers was interesting. They're $106 million or something, and they only had, like, 12 install crews. It's just that their install crews do two to three times more than ours do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's crazy. How are you doing this for service? Like, how are you going from 40 to 100?

[B]

Yeah. Well, I think something that we've been really intentional about lately is our memberships. I think that's kind of like our foundation. It's our base work. We're really. Our big, hairy goal over the next 10 years is really focused around memberships, and really, that's important. Now dived into the question is, like, the biggest. The biggest challenge with heating cooling is seasonality. And actually, it's probably a big challenge in a lot of industries is like.

[A]

All right, I have a friend that runs a $30 million power washing business.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they have to hire. I think it's 500 people between April 1 and May 1.

[B]

It's a real thing.

[A]

So I'm like, all right, you guys have it worse. Like, that sounds insane.

[B]

Yeah. That it's hard. Interesting. My friend has a power wash business, too. They do. They got into Christmas lights.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And they're crushing it. Like. Yeah, they're crushing it. So we start with our memberships, and it's really how can we create work year round for our team members? That's, that's the thing is we need to make sure we have enough work during the off months so that we can make sure we do a good job in the peak months. And so we try to make sure that we schedule those maintenance calls, February, March, April, try to at least get two to three per team member, at least keep them busy, you know, get them some type of security, 30, 40 hours per week. And then what we ask on, I'll try to explain it to the best of my ability is we have four shifts, so we don't do on call. So we have a Monday through Friday, what we call an AM shift. So that's 8 to 8 to 5. We have a PM shift that's like 11 to 8, and then we have a Sunday to Wednesday shift and a Wednesday to Saturday shift. And so right now, our service leader, Aaron has done a really great job of is. All right, guys, if you're a five day, five working day shift, how can we, you know, during the month of June, we need you to work an extra day. We need you to work that sixth day, which increases bandwidth. Or if they're, you know, scheduled from 8 to 5, it's, hey, we, you know, it's gonna be an 8 to 8 kind of, kind of week. You know, we need you in at 8am and then, you know, ending around 8pm or lastly, if they're a Wednesday to Saturday or Sunday to Wednesday is, hey, we need you to work an extra day or two. Which has been really huge, increasing bandwidth because we're still, you know, we still have a responsibility to run those calls accurately. Like, you know, we, we grew up at a time back in 2015 where it's like, hey, I need each technician to run 12 calls. Like, we have a ton of calls. I need each team member to run 12 calls. And when I was a service leader, what I always found was when you run that many calls and you're in and out and you're turning and burning these calls within an hour or half an hour is, you know, I go to a customer's house, I say, hey, I don't do a thorough inspection, I replace the capacitor. And what happens is the next day the customer calls and says, hey, the technician that was there yesterday didn't know what he was doing and my system's not working again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so really we still want to preach like, even these, these tough times or not tough times with these, these busy times is like, we still need to do thorough inspections.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We still need you to spend an hour and a half, you know, two hours on each call and do a thorough inspection because we can't have callbacks either because that's bad for brand reputation as well and customer service. So that's the kind of how we thought about increasing our bandwidths.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then do. Do they run more calls during peak. Like it goes from two to three to six or eight or.

[B]

You nailed it.

[A]

Five. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So we, we try to, like, I would say our goal every day is to try to run four calls per technician per day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Four opportunity calls and maybe a recall or warranty if they come in. That's. That's like our target. However, during these peak times, it will be, you know, six to seven opportunities per day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, longer days, you know, more days in the week. But we do try to pace like six to seven opportunities.

[A]

Yeah. Are you guys running a selling tech model or CA model or like how are you actually selling equipment?

[B]

Yeah, this is something, I think this is something that changes for the whole industry over the next few years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would say we're a hybrid. So we do have comfort advisors. They run marketing leads and they also run what we call tech generated leads. So called technicians in the home and they flip it over the comfort advisor. So a lot of our sales model is in the home. We do have one selling tech or two selling techs. I apologize. And I don't know, I think you have to do what works best for you. I don't think you should be pigeonholed to like we're, you know, this group says we should only run, you know, selling techs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or this group says we should only do comfort advisors. I think at the end day is like, you know, be resourceful as a business owner and like what makes sense for your business and what's going to, you know, how. How can you maximize the opportunities is what's important.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not every tech's meant to be a selling tech and every comfort advisor is meant to be a comfort advisor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I think it will be interesting where it goes with technology. You know, there's a lot of things like call by call out there.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

There's a. I think right now the industry is trying to find its way. We have some early leaders on it, but what we currently do is comfort advisors and selling texts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Especially when it gets hot like this is we might not be able to get a comfort advisor there for a day or two. And it's like, we have techs in the home. Yeah, like, we have techs in the home. Like, so we do green light some technicians to sell in the home during peak seasons and some year round.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, we, we've pivoted our model, just sort of following the lead of others. And that was a big part of it. Is if I was a buyer, why would I. Like, I barely have time to meet you in the first place, let alone meet you a second time. So you know what? I've.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How I think about it and maybe like, this is rude, but I took an hour out of my day to be here with you today. So if you're. If you need to come back for a second appointment, you'll be meeting with my assistant, which, like, that's a closed sales window for whoever that is. And I would imagine a lot of our customers are more like that. Like, they're busy professionals that are, you know, living their life. So I think being able to one call close is. Is important.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm sure that's what I think where we're at is. I think what's best for a company from a data standpoint is like, we just know we have higher conversions if we're in the home with a Comfort Advisor. And like a pain point we had with some of our techs that were selling techs before we went to the Comfort Advisor model is like, they would sometimes sell stuff that, like, it's out.

[A]

Of their own pocket.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. It couldn't go like the. We literally can't install this high efficient furnace.

[A]

Oh, sure.

[B]

Because you just can't do it because it's all, you know, finished, drywalled ceilings.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so they were selling stuff that the customer either didn't need or we couldn't install.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I think that's where the Comfort Advisor model makes sense, is we just know we have higher conversions, at least for us with the Comfort Advisor and we're selling the right stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I think we really have to take a step back in the future and look is like, what also makes sense for the customer. Like, the customer doesn't want a second person. They barely want a first. Like, to back to your point is tough. Yeah.

[A]

Well, and from a, From a company like. Well, now I have to build rapport two times when like the technician already did it. Like, why am I rebuilding rapport? Like, we're good to go. What we found with Comfort Advisors is the job was already sold before the tech, before the ca walked in the Door like the tech already built rapport sort of started preloading options of that customer's mind. The ca walked in and signed paperwork, and then they got a big check for doing it and this. And the tech got less, which, like, that doesn't make sense. He did most of the work, so we just sort of like reset that. So then the tech gets most of the economics because they're the one doing most of the work, which I think has been a win. And then one less appointment. But you know what. What has been interesting and I'm just. You compete with them, so this will be interesting to see. But like, you know, Four seasons, I always bring up a few examples when talking about this, but like the. Some of the biggest pure H VAC companies or like just H vac in general in our industry run a split sales model where we have selling techs do this, we have CAs do this, and that's where we wanted to end up. But Four seasons is a great example. I've heard forever. I haven't seen it personally, but hey, the CAS just run marketed leads. They have a different price book even. Like, it's a totally different structure than the tech flip leads. Is that how that works in practice?

[B]

Yeah. One is, I think Four Seasons. Dave over there is the owner and he. I think he's brilliant and he has a lot of brilliant people on his team. I mean, think they're probably the largest up until most recently. I mean, they still.

[A]

Single location.

[B]

Single location in the U.S. yeah. They are like, honestly, so what they've been able to do, I think Parker maybe, but like, they're probably chasing.

[A]

Yeah, but of course, he was 251 building.

[B]

One building.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

Yeah. They got a car wash and it's great, man. And so they're. I think they've done a really good job of like, I think you need scalability too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is like, you know, if you only have four comfort advisors, it might not make sense to have like multiple price books.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But they probably have a comfort advisor team of like 20 to 30 or if not more, maybe 50, who knows where. It's like, all right, this group of 15. These. This is. These are gonna be our box store comfort advisors. These are the ones that are gonna run Costco leads.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're be hyper competitive with these. These leads.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they might have another 15 comfort advisors that are designed for just customers that are calling in because they want, you know, they're getting a few estimates out there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then the last 15 might be the sell. You know, the technician was in the home and now they're selling. They need the equipment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I.

[A]

That's the highest price point.

[B]

And that's the highest price point.

[A]

Converted.

[B]

It's already converted. Yeah. And so, so they've done a really good job. And they're tough, man. They, they are, they are incredibly tough. They're competitive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's interesting because I think a lot of PE models go to. We're gonna charge more.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But these guys, man, they, they, they are competitor. I mean, they are, they are.

[A]

We, we're up against Heartland. That's like that.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Where. So on one hand, I have Apex. Just north of me, they have an Apex shop.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And like their average ticket is very, literally twice my average ticket. So, like.

[B]

Which is great.

[A]

We love competing against that. It's awesome.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, and you know, it's embarrassing sometimes. They still beat us.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Like we had, we interviewed one of their salespeople the other day and he walked in and he's like, hey, I followed you guys on the sale yesterday. I sold it for 5,000 more than you quoted. And we're like, oh my God, do.

[B]

You want a job?

[A]

We did offer. We did offer. We've been working with, we supplytrades.com for the past 10 years, but most importantly for the past 6 months as our primary vendor for H Vac Supplies. And that's going to be generic as well as some oem. They have been a huge partner for us in our H vac for restocking trucks, for getting pack outs done on time and getting quick deliveries when we need it. Their free Pro membership is going to give better pricing. It's free shipping for orders over $99. And you get access to a team of world class experts that know plumbing, hydronics and H vac like the back of their hands. Like, these guys are incredible. As a savings to our audience, they offered 20% off your first order if you use the code owned 20 O W N E D 20. So click the link below or go to we supplytrades.com owned and operated to find out a little bit more. But on the other, like, we have Heartland. And you know, Heartland does that thing. I know they do it in Chicago too, but they have like 10 brands in one city and they get competitive. I mean, they will throw down on pricing. They're slugging in like, you know, Systems for like 6 grand if they have nothing going on. That's.

[B]

And they have a good price. I think it comes down to your pricing model. Like, I mean, I've never really popped the hood and really like, you know, two and four seasons, but I'm sure they have, you know, this is just an assumption.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I think, you know, when they, when during slower months, they're a lot more competitive even on their highest points on the peak months, they're really maximizing. But at the end of the year is what matters. Right. Like how do our margins look at the end of the year or trailing 12.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they've done just a really good job. Yeah. It's tough. They, they're a competitor in the home. Yeah, they, they're good. Yeah.

[A]

That's funny. All right, so it sounds like the. Deconstructing this four million dollar month one, you have a stable revenue in plumbing. A million dollars a month.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So like, I think that helps a lot.

[B]

Big time.

[A]

Yeah, big time. I, I have friends down in DFW and I see their like service titan charts. Wild, like H vac only. Right. And it's like we'll do like $10,000 or you know, that's exactly. Maybe a hundred dollar 100,000 and then we'll do $2 million. And like it's that much of a swing. So plumbing gives you a nice stable. Is electric in there too?

[B]

Electric's new. So we just launched electrical this year.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Which, I mean, that's starting. I think we have three or four team members now over there. So that's, that's really starting to project in the right direction.

[A]

All right, cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But so a million of stability.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Managing capacity and like being thoughtful about extra days and mainly retaining capacity. It sounds like during slow season, like how do we make sure we really do a good job there?

[B]

I think that I wanted two things that I thought of as you were looping the information back is one thing that I think has really helped us maximize capacity these last couple years in these peaks. Time is like dispatch software.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like making sure that we used to have dispatchers that would, you know, write tech, write call and they, you know. But now we use just software to automate that whole process of like, what should the next call be? I think has really helped our bandwidth. Yes.

[A]

Because that's been a win for us too.

[B]

Yeah. That, that's been huge. That's when I, I would say it pays for itself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like six months of the year when it's slower, you can, you could build an argument. The other six months is when it really pays for itself. Yeah. And the other thing that we've been super focused on. I want to make sure maybe to highlight is retention rates of field pros.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is. I think that's where the magic is. Is not only how can I peak up? You know, like, if you have all, like we, you know, right now, our H Vac service team that for service calls is 25 service technicians on H Vac. But if I have to hire 25 new H Vac service techs every year, like our performance at a conversion rate, at a customer quality options, like, all that's going to be in the tank.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it's not only how can I flex up but like, really what we've been keep.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How can we retain these?

[A]

How do you remember that? How are you thinking about that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's a gap for us. Like, our turnover in H Vac service is a consistent challenge.

[B]

It is because of the seasonality. The damn seasonality.

[A]

And it's a lot of guys like leaving industry or like, oh, I want to go to say it. You know, it's like different and it's tough that.

[B]

And that's. That is the hardest. And so some things we've done around it is really creating career. Like, I would not say that we have it nailed, but the thing that we've been super focused on the last two years is career progression for our field pros is like as if someone joins us today is, you know, and they might come from a local trade school or local community college is how can we take them from no experience a level one, and how can we not subjectively but objectively make them into a level five?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we fell into a trap. I wouldn't say a trap, but like one of the challenges two years ago was we. Because we're, you know, when people join us, like, our purpose is to expect more.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're a growth organization. And so we were always thinking like, hey, the next step is being a leader. Like, that's important. We need leaders. And so that's also a focus. But we've taken a step back and said not every technician needs to become a leader and not every technician needs to become a level five.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's your journey. And it's just our job to, like, shepherd that journey to wherever they want to be. And so that's something we've been focused on. Our leaders, they made like, literally booklets that says, like, once you install, you know, 10 humidifiers, you're competent, you get. You get a stamp. But really take an objective approach into, like, how can we develop our team Members. Because, you know, if a team member wants to make a dollar more is, I think it's our job as leaders to show them how to make a dollar more but just not give them a dollar more. Like otherwise, you know, everyone's gonna just think, hey, you know, I woke up today, I want a dollar more. Yeah, but it's our job to say, hey, if you want that, you want to make more money, here's a path to make more money and kind of guide them.

[A]

Yeah, it's been a big focus for us too. What, what we're trying to, well won the retention side. So yeah, this was helpful. What we're trying to nail down is how many people do you have on.

[B]

The team for H Vac or just the toll company? I think we're around. Well, this might be a story for a different day. So we're at about 1:45 and we're in the middle of adding two new partner groups to our team. One will add four team members, which is Tuesday, and then another is another 10 team members August 1st. So we'll probably 160 here in the next month.

[A]

Yeah, it's one of the benefits of H vac, but like, yeah, so we're 160. But obviously like plumbing is like a big part of it. But what we're finding is like 160 is a lot of people and people get kind of lost in there or they feel lost in there. And what has been hard is pointing out where you can grow. So where can you start? Where can you grow? And we've been really blessed because of nearly all of our leaders so far have been promoted from, into leadership and that's like from the director level to, to the frontline leader level. Like they have been promoted up to there, which is really cool.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But we had, we had someone almost quit two weeks ago. And this is something we'd been working on for like a year of like career laddering and progressioning. How do we map it? How do we show it? How do we like, you know, help people on their journey? And it was a good wake up call to the team of like, hey, this needs to be front burnered, like really quickly. Because we had someone almost leave and they're like, well, I just got this opportunity over at this other place. It's like what I want. They wanted an inside sales position and it's like we have, like we have that. Yeah, like we have that. We have four. We love a fifth. Like how. Why don't we just talk about that? Like how Did. How did we lose the fact that, like, you can progress your career here just inside a slightly different team than what you're used to?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's something we're trying to nail down. It's like, where can you grow vertically, where can you grow horizontally? And like, what are all the opportunities inside a team that's 160 people.

[B]

How have you thought about bridging that gap of, like, lateral movements? Because sometimes people think, like, it's always up and up and up, but sometimes people want to just move laterally from maybe a service tech to an inside sales. Have you thought, I mean, it's been a week, it sounds like. Have you thought about, like, how to help bridge that gap?

[A]

Well, a lot.

[B]

That's a challenge for us too.

[A]

Yeah, I, I think it's how we map it. So I wish I could put the picture up, but it. What we did is we created a map that shows it. So, like, here's where you start. So you can start as a coordinator. And like, I think some of this is titling strategy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, like, what's the manager? What's a coordinator? What's a manager? What's a director? What's a senior manager? So, like, nail that down. But where can you start? So you can start as a coordinator, you can start as an apprentice, you start as an individual contributor. So those three things are where you can start. And then the next level you are a technician, a csr, a dispatcher, inside sales. And those are basically the four options that, that you can be. Then the next layer is, well, you're going to be a senior tech, you're going to be sales, you're going to be a supervisor, and then you're a frontline manager. And there's two. Are you. Are you a senior frontline manager? Inside frontline manager, outside frontline manager, and then finally director. So it's like it starts at three, goes to four, goes to three, goes to two, goes to one. And it sort of shows where you can move, but it's designed in a way that like, you can imagine your horizontal movement too, because it's just right there. It's like, okay, well, I'm a senior tech, then here's the other option. I can move to sales.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And that's a. A horizontal movement for me, which is great. I could potentially move to inside. Super. Which, like, we've never had anyone try that. But, like, that is in the same tranche of seniority.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I think that's something we're going to be focused On I actually, I remember picking your brain on this. Yeah.

[A]

I remember picture. Once it's done, like, we're. We're. We had to map it out in our heads.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So clearly that we could wrap a wall with it. Because what we want to be able to do, we're really intentional about our interview process and like walking people through the building. We want to be able to stop at this wall and talk about it for a minute or two. Like, hey. And it's called here's where you can grow. So like, here's where you can grow with Wilson. This is the position you're applying for. Like, let's check out. Like, oh, yeah, check that out. And then ideally we put in like potential earnings.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With each position.

[B]

Because that's the important part is they want to see what they can make too. Right.

[A]

But we want people to know that they can just like, hey, this can be the end of your career. Like, this can be it. There's a lot of different seats here. We have 25 titles. You can just land here.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. That's a. I think that's a gap we have is because, like, we're a growth organization. You're a growth organization. Like, we're both me and you've had this conversation where like really in stride stuff, step for step is like, you're beating me.

[A]

But.

[B]

Yeah, no, no, no. Is how can we. Yeah, we. How. I guess what I'm thinking about right now is how can we're going to retitle everything? Is like, right now we have everyone just listed as manager and we don't have like a great strategy around tiling, but we haven't needed it until this point. But I think we're starting to kind of reach our capacity with that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One thing we've been focused on is cascading messaging.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so like, how can we. I mean, you had this conversation as we were walking in with EOS and scaling up is. Is. You know, we self implemented eos, which I would encourage everyone to hire a facilitator. They range in all different costs, at least for your first year. Like, don't self implement. We did it. Learn from my. My, my challenges. But now after five, six years, we've gone to scaling up because one of the challenges we were trying to overcome is like, all right, what's it. What's the company mission? What are the different locations mission to help support the company mission? And then how's that cascade all the way down to the frontline team member on how they can feel they're contributing towards the company mission.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's been a huge focus. Focus of ours. And then really, we've redone all of our bank partners and a lot of our professional services has been a, you know, kind of a focus and maybe for a different day as well. Conversation for.

[A]

Yeah, we're. We're, like, beginning that journey, and it's annoying.

[B]

It is. It is. Yeah. I. The bank one. I. I looked like I started conversations a year ago, and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're just now kind of coming to, you know, the.

[A]

It feels like. Yeah. Yeah, we have. We've started opening the conversation and, like, they're trying to, like, rush it along, and I'm like, I don't. I don't think we can. Yeah, we're talking about, like, $5 million of, like, debt. We're talking about, like, Treasury. Like, we can't. Yeah, you can't.

[B]

They're just trying to lock you in as fast as possible. They don't want you to shop it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Good salespeople.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I saw my daughter.

[A]

Good urgency.

[B]

I saw my daughter. This, when we were driving here is. Is with the. Especially on the bank side. You know, everyone has, like, a VP of, like a VP title of some sort. I'm like, Mac, at the end of the day is. I said, you know, they're customer relations people. At the end of the day, like, don't get hung up on the title side.

[A]

Yeah. That's funny. This was awesome, man. So we. So I'm gonna repeat the. The big wins on 4 million a month because that's crazy. That's amazing.

[B]

So appreciate that.

[A]

A million, like, stable revenue. Somewhere there's stable revenue. So in this case, it's plumbing.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Strong membership base. Really making sure we're retaining our team. And that's, like, tactically, what's their schedule look like? And strategically, what do their careers look like? And then just being really thoughtful about, like, adding additional days and increasing capacity when the. When, you know, grass is growing.

[B]

Yeah. And I think that's. That's 100% it. The last thing that comes to mind is we used to do this. I just want to throw this out. There is like, you know, it's hot right now. We know it's hot. We've seen it. It's going to be hot forever. And back in 2015, when I was a service manager, I'd say, like, hey, it's Friday. Any chance you can work tomorrow is not being, like, so by the hip, you know, make sure that you're having that conversation on the front end of the week or even before the month begins. Like, yeah, June's always hot and busy. It's like, just have your team prepared. Don't just ask them on Friday to work tomorrow.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good call. We. We got in the habit of doing it, like, every Tuesday we send out messages, but you're right, like, we should have done it in May for June.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we're behind the ball.

[B]

All good.

[A]

This was awesome. Thanks for coming on.

[B]

Thanks, man. Thanks for having me.

[A]

If people want to get a hold of you and, like, bother you and ask you questions and stuff, how can they do that?

[B]

Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah. Twitter, man. Yeah. So I'm. I've been trying to be more active on. On.

[A]

Welcome to the club.

[B]

Yeah, it's an awesome community.

[A]

It's a good community. Yeah, it's good. It's robust.

[B]

Yeah. And I feel like you're getting raw information there. Like it's not filtered through.

[A]

Yes, definitely.

[B]

So, yeah, you can find me on X. I don't know my handler name at the moment.

[A]

We'll link. We'll link it.

[B]

Appreciate that, man.

[A]

Cool. If you like what you heard, make sure you like and sub and check out owned and operated.com for more. Thanks.