#250 Start From Scratch or Buy? One Founder’s Surprising Answer

Summary

Owned and Operated Podcast: Episode #250

Title: Start From Scratch or Buy? One Founder’s Surprising Answer
Host: John Wilson
Guest: Tyler Griffin, Founder of Swift Pro Heating, Cooling & Plumbing (DC)
Date: October 14, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this milestone 250th episode, John Wilson sits down with Tyler Griffin, the founder of Swift Pro Heating, Cooling and Plumbing, for an in-depth conversation about the realities of starting and scaling a home service business from scratch in an industry saturated with private equity buyouts. Tyler shares his personal journey from the trades to running a fast-growing startup, reflects on lessons learned from a prior PE-backed exit, and reveals why—despite industry trends—he chose to launch his new business from the ground up rather than buying an existing one. They dig into early challenges, choosing a model, recruiting, creating a winning culture, “start vs. buy,” vendor relationships, and actionable advice for home service entrepreneurs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tyler’s Backstory: From Trades to Startup Success

[03:10 – 07:00]

• Grew up working on construction projects from a young age; homeschooled in rural Wisconsin.
• Cut his teeth on all aspects of construction: “At 13, we bought a barn, turned it into a house and I was homeschooled. So our school for a couple of months was doing that project.” (Tyler, 02:06)
• Transitioned East Coast in 2010, started as laborer then quickly moved into sales—even without prior experience.
• Rose to partner level in a design-build company, then moved on to launch a branch for American Home Contractors (roofing/siding/windows/solar).
• Led the branch to strong growth and ultimately experienced a private equity sale in 2022. Stayed on for transition, then took a 6-month family sabbatical to reset and plan his next move.

2. The Exit: Selling to Private Equity — Lessons & Dilemmas

[08:11 – 12:40]

• Multiple partners with different goals led to considering the sale.
• “Success actually creates additional complexity.” (Tyler, 08:48)
• Private equity relationships can sharpen focus on KPIs, growth, operational excellence — but also bring cultural shifts and pressure to chase multiples.
• Emphasizes the importance of values alignment, not just payout: “The values alignment is the most important thing.” (Tyler, 12:18)
• The emotional toll and identity shift post-sale are real: “So much of my value...is like why I built this business for the last—like that’s like a core part of who I am as a human.” (John, 05:32)

3. The Sabbatical & Start of Swift Pro

[04:59 – 07:20, 13:05 – 17:00]

• Used family time and travel to clarify personal and business goals.
• Realized he was “wired to build”—needed a new outlet for creativity and productive mayhem.
• Considered coaching, consultancy, buying in, or launching new; “I wanted to build another service business…” (Tyler, 13:05)
• Selected HVAC and plumbing as next focus for their “own the home” model (repeat service, higher-frequency work).

4. Launching from Scratch: Early Moves & Key Challenges

[14:07 – 17:54, 20:06 – 25:46]

• Launching Approach:
  • Partnered with a friend with an HVAC background (who brought additional early team members).
  • Started in late summer with a soft launch, bootstrapped customer acquisition, and ramped up fast.
  • “It was messy, as you can imagine...I didn't know what I didn't know.” (Tyler, 14:34)
• Rapid Brand Building:
  • Prioritized Google and Angi reviews over short-term profits to gain visibility—“Didn’t care what we sold service work for as long as we got a review out of it.” (Tyler, 15:16)
  • Invested from day one in a professional brand, van wraps, and web presence.
• Tough Start:
  • Initial support from vendors and tech providers was difficult: “Service Titan...gave me terrible support. It was a nightmare. It was actually one of the hardest aspects of the business—we’re still playing catch-up on that.” (Tyler, 22:14)
  • Recruiting skilled tradespeople was significantly harder as an unknown startup.
  • Vendors and reps often reluctant to take a chance on a zero-revenue business.
  • Ultimately succeeded in getting key support/relationships by selling vision and demonstrating loyalty (“He took a bet on me and it’s paid off for both.”, Tyler, 24:21)

5. Start vs. Buy: The Case for Going from Zero

[20:06 – 21:58, 26:25 – 28:11]

• M&A market in Northern Virginia/DC is oversaturated—multiples high, few quality family businesses left.
• “Most of the mid to larger companies have already been acquired, and so...the multiples were so high...I didn’t see anything worth buying.” (Tyler, 20:19)
• Cultural fit, pride in building, and the challenge itself pushed him toward creating, not acquiring.
• John relates: “We’re about to go regional and we’re way more attracted to starting than buying...it’s easier to control culture. Prices for acquisitions are out of hand.” (John, 27:03)

6. Growth Strategy & Milestones

[17:54 – 19:34, 47:18 – 49:59, 50:19 – 50:58]

• Sales & Marketing: Leveraged Angi Ads as top early lead source; Google/Yelp reviews and a strong web footprint.
• Revenue ramped from almost nothing in early months to over $150K in November; hit $3.3M so far in their first year — “chasing $5M” for the first full calendar year.
• Plumbing was added by acquiring a small customer list—put on “maintenance mode” while prioritizing HVAC, but recently refocused for long-term stability.

7. People, Culture, and Leadership

[34:13 – 45:31]

• Early recruiting was hard: now, best hires are friends-of-friends or industry-referrals, leading to chains of quality hires and better cultural fit.
• “Our best people are coming from referrals, friends of friends...that’s most of our growth.” (Tyler, 34:22)
• Leadership is mostly promoted from within—“it’s really tough to hire leaders” externally for fit and trust; when necessary, will hire externally through trusted recommendations.
• Clear on communicating opportunity, growth, and the “truth” about what joining Swift Pro means.
• Cultural fit, buy-in, and modeling the ethos (“model, mentor, multiply”) are top priorities.
• Reviews and reputation are constantly celebrated: “As a business owner, you get more of what you celebrate.” (Tyler, 32:06)

8. Hard-Earned Lessons for Entrepreneurs

[28:11 – 31:34, 51:04 – 57:24]

• Know your Why: “If you don’t, you’re going to go through hell to build a business...it’s a roller coaster, and the lows can be low.” (Tyler, 51:04)
• Family Buy-In: “If you want to keep your family...have them on board with why you’re doing what you’re doing.” (Tyler, 52:05)
• Trusted Circle: Avoid entrepreneurial loneliness; seek peer owners, mentors, and business networks for support.
• Memberships & Service: Should have prioritized recurring memberships earlier to reduce marketing costs and stabilize revenue (“memberships are huge...if you don’t want to just keep paying through the nose for marketing...”). (Tyler, 28:20)
• Brand, Systems: Invest day-one in a legitimate brand and clear systems.
• Be Real: Set honest expectations with team regarding pace, benefits, and the growth journey. “Don’t be what you’re not. But what I can give you is opportunity to grow and become something you’re not today.” (Tyler, 55:38)
• Communicate the Mission: Develop and constantly revisit a concise vision/manifesto with the team.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Founder Motivation:
  “If I don’t find healthy outlets for my pent up creative energy and kind of love of chaos, I will create chaos...I like to channel that into building something that matters.”
  — Tyler Griffin [01:31]

• On Selling to Private Equity:
  “Success actually creates additional complexity...if you have good goal alignment, then it’s like, what is your end goal?...Are you building just to cash out? Are you building a legacy?”
  — Tyler Griffin [08:48]

• On Building Culture:
  “I'm a glutton for punishment, I think is part of it...Culture is really important to me and I did feel like I’d have the chance from the get go to really build the culture the way I wanted.”
  — Tyler Griffin [21:13, 21:40]

• On Brand & First Impressions:
  “Nobody was showing up in a white van. We look real from day one as a real company.”
  — Tyler Griffin [34:05]

• On Reviews & Team Behavior:
  “You get more of what you celebrate. Too often we only celebrate sales...from early on, we emphasized reviews. It kind of became a core part of our culture.”
  — Tyler Griffin [32:06]

• On Starting vs. Buying:
  “Most of the mid to larger companies have already been acquired...last summer...multiples were so high...I didn’t see anything worth buying...I kind of like, I don’t know, I like the idea of creating from scratch.”
  — Tyler Griffin [20:19]

  “We’re about to go regional and we’re way more attracted to starting than buying...it’s easier to control culture. Prices for acquisitions are out of hand. And frankly, it’d probably be cheaper and easier to just launch it.”
  — John Wilson [27:03]

• On Leadership Development:
  “Promoting from within: our chance of success with an internal hire is like 9 out of 10; with an external hire, it’s like 2 out of 10.”
  — John Wilson [38:24]

  “Only want leaders that practice what I call 3M: model, mentor, multiply.”
  — Tyler Griffin [42:14]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:00 – 03:27: Introductions & Tyler’s Origin in the Trades
• 03:28 – 07:20: Early Career, Company Partnerships, Transition to PE
• 07:21 – 13:04: Post-sale Reflection, Sabbatical, Why Launch a New Brand
• 13:05 – 17:54: Why HVAC & Plumbing, Early Launch Steps
• 17:55 – 22:14: Building Systems, Vendors, and First Wins
• 20:06 – 28:11: The “Start vs. Buy” Decision and Strategic Rationale
• 28:12 – 34:13: Key Lessons: Memberships, Reviews, and Reputation
• 34:14 – 45:31: Recruiting, Leadership, and Culture Building
• 45:32 – 50:18: Adding Plumbing, Balancing Growth Between Trades
• 50:19 – 50:58: Revenue Highlights—First Year Numbers
• 51:00 – 57:24: Foundational Advice for New Founders
• 57:25 – close: Connecting with Tyler, Reflections

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Key Takeaways

• Start with your why: Know your motivations, and ensure your family and team are onboard for the difficult journey ahead.
• Start vs. Buy: In today's PE-heavy, high-multiple market, launching from scratch may be less risky, offers more control over culture and processes, and is viable for founders willing to grind.
• Speed Wins: Focus early on establishing a strong brand presence and digital reputation; “Reviews are currency.”
• People over Processes: Early quality hires often come from personal networks; culture fit trumps resume.
• Relentless Communication: Clearly set expectations, incentives, vision, and use every team interaction to reinforce culture.
• Invest in Recurring Revenue: Build membership programs and recurring service models from day one to stabilize cash flow and reduce future marketing costs.
• Celebrate & Multiply Success: Make wins visible and contagious—what you reward, your team will repeat.
• Leadership is Grown, Not Hired: Developing leaders internally or through trusted referrals is the surest path; invest in training and clear role progression.

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How to Connect with Tyler & Swift Pro

• Online: Follow Swift Pro on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter
• Personal handle: @scrappystartup on X (Twitter)
• **Open to connecting with other owners/entrepreneurs building from scratch or via acquisition

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For anyone looking to understand the nuts and bolts of building a home service business—from market entry strategy to first-year growth and leadership—this episode is a candid, resource-rich masterclass in what it really takes.

Transcript

[A]

I think it's really important to know your why. Because if you don't, you're going to go through hell to build a business. There's a lot of tough days, especially early on.

[B]

I agree with everything you said.

[A]

Do I like every aspect of what we do? No. But overall, I find a lot of fulfillment in what I do and what we're building and the brand we're building fits me.

[B]

We're about to go regional and we're way more attracted to starting than buying.

[A]

I'm very open to acquisition for the right opportunity, especially family owned brands that want to sell to another family brand. Last summer when I, you know, when I would have been looking, I didn't see anything worth buying.

[B]

Someone's launching a business. What's the big piece of advice, advice you're going to give them as they go to launch a home service brand?

[A]

Well.

[B]

Welcome back to Owned and Operated. I'm your host, John Wilson. During the day, I run a $30 million home service company in Akron, Ohio. And for fun, I run this podcast showing other people how to basically do the same thing. It's a lot of fun and I'm super glad you joined me today. Today on the show we have Tyler Griffin from Swift Pro heating, cooling and plumbing in dc. Welcome to the show.

[A]

Yeah, thanks, John. Great to be here.

[B]

Yeah. This is going to be, this is going to be fun. I think you've got a compelling story. It's interesting. It's like a startup. It's fast growing, it's good. So I'm excited to like double click on this. I love it. If you just started off a little bit with like, Give me the 62nd, Tyler.

[A]

Sure. Well, one thing I figured out in the reset period, which we'll talk about, you know, before I started Swift Pro, is I'm wired to build things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I, if I don't find healthy outlets that I can use my pent up creative energy and kind of love of chaos, I will create chaos.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, so I like to channel.

[B]

That in my reality.

[A]

Productive things, you know, I'm going to make mayhem somehow, so I might as well do it. Building something that matters.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so entrepreneurial endeavors are the perfect outlet for that.

[B]

Yeah. So you, you're right now you're an H Vac Plumbing. Yep. You were, what was your previous background?

[A]

Yeah, so I've been in the trades my whole life. Grew up in rural Wisconsin. At 13, we bought a barn, turned it into a house and I was homeschooled. So our school for a Couple of months was. Was doing that project. So grew up in the trades also working on farms out of high school. Started doing construction of all types. You know, building houses from scratch, everything. So learned the trades at a young age. Moved out to the East coast in 2010 with my wife and then one son at that time. Got a job swinging a hammer for a little bit. Then applied for a startup company and applied for a job there as a. As like a laborer or whatever. And they're like, we think you'd be a better fit in sales. I'm like, I've Never did sales before. 26.

[B]

Give it a shot.

[A]

Yeah. And so they're like, well, here's a truck run five appointments with this guy. They had no sales process, no training, you know, but here, just watch him for five appointments. I'll go sell stuff. And so I did. And they kind of did everything. Pretty much. Not H vac, actually, but everything else nearly in a house. Since we did roofing, siding, windows, but we'd also do renovations, bathrooms, kitchens, Anything that we could sell.

[B]

Yeah, pretty much.

[A]

We kind of just did the GC thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For a while. More roofing, but plenty of other stuff. And then I ended up getting really good at kind of the design build side of things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So was with that company for, you know, for a good run there from about 2010 to 2016.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And in that time, it became a partner on the design build side and. And learned that I didn't want to do that long term. It's just very, very stressful. And at the time, low margins. We were just focusing on the wrong demographic, but transitioned out of that. Joined another company in 2016. American Home Contractors that I worked in for. I was there for about eight years. So first year, just joined the sales team and. And then in 2017, moved to. Well, first drove back and forth from Maryland, but then moved to Northern Virginia, opened up a brand under their name. Basically bought in as a partner and started building from the ground up. And so we. We built a good size team there over a few years.

[B]

What was the industry?

[A]

Roofing, siding, windows. And then eventually we got into solar as well.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

So we had.

[B]

Similar to the gc, like touching.

[A]

We narrowed it more so we wouldn't do anything inside the house aside from maybe drywall repair.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or occasional insulation. But yeah, we didn' touch any remodeling projects. It was just exteriors.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

Is what we focused on. Not even really decks or anything like that. It was mostly what could be done in a day Generally that was kind of our rule of thumb.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Project in a day type of thing. So we had a really good run. A lot of building years. Built a good sized company, had a great team and then we sold in 22 to a private equity group. I stayed on for almost two years and then transitioned out in February of 2024. 4.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Took a little bit of time to figure out what was next and did Ended up doing a six month sabbatical, which was really a key time with my family. Just kind of hitting the reset button, figuring out what we wanted to do next. What I wanted to do next. You know, I just had just turned 40 and so it was like, all right, big, big kind of life decisions considered things like coaching and consulting. Just taking a, you know, partnering up with somebody else in an existing company or doing like sales, management, whatever. There's a lot of different options. Plenty of people that were interested.

[B]

I mean that's like the hard thing about selling. I mean you read all these, like the post sale dilemma.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of like. Yeah. Like it's so much of our. I mean so much of my value. Right. Like how I think of myself is like why built this business for the last.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like that's like a core part of who I am as a human.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And obviously I need to work on that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But like it is hard. I think the transition is hard from what I'm told.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sounds like that was a.

[A]

It was. The last couple years were difficult there too. There's just a lot of transitions after that acquired. It was a bit of a painful ending and so. So that was. That was tough. So we took some time because we didn't want to react to that and make a decision hastily, which I think.

[B]

A lot of people do.

[A]

Yeah. We did a bunch of family traveling, one global trip for 23 days out of the country, visiting places like Rome and Greece. That was awesome. With the family. A road trip, you know, to Wisconsin, where I'm originally from. So just did a lot. I went to the Oshkosh air show, first time ever. That was amazing. So just a lot of memories made with the family during that time. Which were, which were great. And then. Yeah. I figured out during that time that man, I'm wired to build stuff. And at the five month mark, I could hardly control myself anymore. I'm like, I got to.

[B]

I got to go.

[A]

August, we were already laying the groundwork. I had formed a couple, you know, kind of a couple entities in May.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I had come up with a name and A concept and then just over the next several months can confirmed what I wanted to do next which was going to be the focus on H Vac and then H Vac and plumbing kind of of became what the, what the focus was.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so yeah, we, we kind of got the ball rolling. Late August officially soft launch September and then two months before we kind of got real revenue numbers but started building the team there. And in September just me and one other guy that had a background in the H Vac industry that shut down his small, you know, smaller business to join with me and, and be our first time full, first full time team member.

[B]

Yeah, Tight deadlines, breakdowns, last minute jobs. That is just the life in the trades. And that's why we trust we supplytrades.com they're family owned and with nearly a century in business, they stock thousands of H vac, plumbing and hydronics parts from brands that you already use. They're shipped fast and even same day. If you order by 3:30 Eastern with a free pro membership, you'll get better pricing, free shipping over $99 and real experts who actually know the field. Get 20% off your first order with the code owned20 at the link below. We supply trades. Finally a supplier who actually gets it. I want to, I want to click a little bit on the, the acquisition. I don't think we talk too many people on the show who have been like most people are building in some format. We've had a few people that did it, but like not much. So are you open to talking about it for a couple months?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

Like what's it, what's the decision look like? Hey, it's time like right you. Was it like dynamic? Was it like this is. We timed the market like you know, if, if someone out there is like, hey, maybe this is the right time. Like how did you guys get comfortable with that?

[A]

Well, it was challenging I think for us. So there was multiple partners involved. One of the partners was older and kind of looking for that off ramp. Yes, the, the, the challenge I think was that you think at the start that success is going to solve everything. Success actually complete, creates additional complexity.

[B]

Yeah, like personally or professionally or both.

[A]

Well, I'm talking about business success. Like you grow something large and it's like, all right, let's just make a bunch of money, let's build a big great business. But then you have a lot of decisions to make. Right. And you have different time horizons, different goals. And so I think goal alignment's huge. And those conversations need to happen on the front end. And you, you know, of course I was just trying to build something. Right. So, so I didn't know what I didn't know. And so, so that, that played into the decision though, right? Is this, this is a way for us to create options for everyone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I had intended to stay on and help build. That was the original intention. And for various reasons that didn't work out past. Again, just under two years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But yeah, I think, I think that's part of the decision. And so if you have good goal alignment and then it's like, what is your end goal? You know, what, you know, are you building it just to cash out? You know, are you building a legacy business? And so I'm much. So the reset for me was really good on getting to my. Why. Getting to what I care about, like what, what really matters in this next go around. So I could do with a lot of intentionality. I'm really thankful for that experience. I learned a ton. I do think overall, like in the.

[B]

Experience of like going through us.

[A]

Yeah. And I mean like getting a lens into that world, the private equity world. And again, I think, I think that we sold to one of the better groups. I think there's a lot of good people on, you know, on the team. But I do think it's important to understand what private equity is because in some ways it gets this reputation as sort of this ruthless corporate, you know, side of it. And there's truth to that though, because at the end of the day, you're going to do whatever it takes to get that EBITDA to grow, to get your multiple up, to be able to get a next. The next exit. Right. And that's just a reality now. What you can gain from that. What I learned a lot about was efficiencies, you know, performance, you know, just. Just really kind of driving growth. And then it was funny once it wasn't our money. Like, I also saw close up some really strategic risks taking, you know, in that massive investment. We grew so fast, you know, once we kind of put the gas down, I was like, wow, we could have done this before, you know, So I learned some things even that I've applied now with this, you know, with Swift Pro that I just learned by watching. Right. And no two pathways are ever the same, but you can learn principles, you can see. So I feel like I did, I did learn a lot and it was, it was a good lens and say they're, they're still going on to build, build a great platform.

[B]

Yeah. One of the things we've thought about doing over time is like, we thought, we think it'd be fun to raise and like, I think choosing the right partners.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like the complicated part, but how many, you know, when I think just about my own life, like how many opportunities will I have as a human being to build a billion dollar business?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And I think I, I think we have one here and I think that is like, I should probably do that. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I think it's sort of like, you know, if you're given the possibility of something, like if you don't do it, like who didn't get that possibility that could have executed so.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. I feel like you have a response. Not, not you, but like, that's how I feel about myself. Right. Is, hey, I've been given this opportunity. I have to do it for all the people that did not get this opportunity.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which could be ridiculous. But. Yeah, but it's intimidating because you, you know, like, yeah, who, who, who's the partner? Who's the right partner? What's the right structure? Like, how do you make this work in a way that is a win.

[A]

Yeah. And that's where I think too often the exit is focused more so on the multiple and the money side of things. And I think the values alignment is the most important thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then it's like, well, unless you're just exiting and walking right, then I guess it's like, whatever you get at that payday, then that's all that matters.

[B]

Perhaps.

[A]

But if you care about the team that you built, Right. The brand, the legacy that you've tried to establish through that over the years, you ran the company, built the company, then I think the group matters a lot and I think that decision has to be made carefully. So, yeah, absolutely.

[B]

All right, cool. Let's talk about Swift. Swift Pro. So you took a six month sabbatical. At five months, you're like, hey, I'm going to launch an H Vac company started, you know, conniving your way into launching this. Walk me through, why H Vac? Why, why plumbing? Like, how did we land here?

[A]

Yeah, I considered a lot of different service oriented businesses as well as, like I said a few other pathways and landed like, okay, I want to build another service business. I had to find a new pathway from what I came from. Right. I just sold the company. I'm not going to build a competing brand. Had some non compete stuff. So it's like, all right, what, what could I do? And of the options that were Available like the one like what we had built was a residentially focused company. Right. We were not doing much commercial, is pretty much all residential. So like, all right, that's the world I know. So what industry would lend itself towards ticket items that are similar to roofing, you know, in a business model that at least I thought in concept would be, would be somewhat similar to roofing. That's where I landed on H Vac. I also had a good friend of mine that was in H Vac accurately and had kind of started his own thing for the last year, year and a half, something like that. And I'd watched what he was doing and, and so I had kind of an insider view to us, to a, you know, small operation. And he had told me, hey, if you start something, I'm willing to shut this down and come join you. And so I was like, all right.

[B]

You know, do it.

[A]

And so that's when, yeah, he was first, first guy, first full time guy on the team. And he already had a helper that was willing to step in on the installs as we needed him. And, and then he had a couple other guys he knew that we'd hope. Hopes of, of getting to join the team as soon as we were ready. And so that's, that's how we launched, man. I mean it was, it was messy as you can imagine. And I didn't know what I didn't know. And even though he'd come from the industry, he'd never work in, worked in like really established brands.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That had good systems and processes and so he couldn't tell me like the design of the company and you know, and I didn't know about things like next Org structure.

[B]

Is that what you.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, just like what the roadmap even looked like. Right. And so I kind of just started out like I'm going to try to build this thing like a roofing. Right. And the challenge and the differences are, which are numerous but like one, I.

[B]

Was going to ask how similar you felt like they were.

[A]

Yeah, like there's overlap and then they're wildly different.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So roofing doesn't have this extreme seasonality. And you know, I mean what I liked about H Vac was the service cycle. There's more service required like H Vac and plumbing. Why I chose them to finish that question is primarily because I felt like if I could own H Vac and plumbing, I could own the home and then I could, you know, add other services if I wanted to in the future, like electrical and other things. But I was like, if I can own H Vac and plumbing. Things break down a lot more with H Vac and plumbing. And there's more service requirements, maintenance, etc. And then the ticket items on the H Vac. Yeah, I'm still learning the plumbing world, but H Vac side, I kind of quickly got the concept right with the equipment replacement, full system replacement in particular. And so that was the idea. And so we launched with that and then I just went hard after trying to build out a brand, you know, right away. I mean we hit the ground running with reviews. That was a big deal for us. Right from, you know, so, so we didn't care what we sold service work for as long as you get a review out of it. You know, just go do something, help somebody get a review. Right. So get on the map on Google. Look like a real business. Right. That people could draw so we could start selling bigger ticket items. Yeah, we started getting some referrals which helped, you know, and get us stability. But we didn't have real, we didn't, you know, our first hundred plus thousand dollar month was November. I think we did like 150.

[B]

So it's like four, four, three months.

[A]

Yeah, it was a September, October. We're just like getting our footprint out there. I mean like I didn't even, I didn't have a wrap van until October.

[B]

You know, that feels pretty good. Like I know sophisticated operators doing like greenfield locations and that's roughly there, like roadmap to revenue.

[A]

Yeah. What's really, really hard, I worked with Angie a long time.

[B]

Angie, like the marketing.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So we started out with like the Angie lead side. Actually switched to Angie ads.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're still like our largest system replacement lead source right now. Yeah. I'm only a year in. Right. Still building out that brand. So they're still our number one. And so we, I partnered with them right away. Yeah. And that was how I started getting leads. You know, we got a few reviews on Angie, we were building out the Google profile, and by November we started to get traction where we were like, okay, we're actually running leads, you know, actually selling some stuff at that point I had, you know, two guys that were capable of doing lead install or service work and neither one is like in that role now or like, you know, they're more like kind of, they're still kind of flex. Right. So there's upsides and downsides to that, but it was a huge benefit early on that they could flex around to whatever I needed them To. On the given day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, November, we kind of started to hit some real revenue numbers and get some traction. And then I think we. It was January when we brought on like our first guy that was like full time, just install focused right where we tried. Then we really focused on. On the install side of like selling.

[B]

Like Comfort Advisor style.

[A]

No, no, just like in. Yeah. Like, like our lead installer.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Okay. Like the other guy. The rest of the time it was like, today you're doing service. Yeah. Tomorrow you're doing commercial service. The next day you're doing this system installs. Like it was like whatever we needed on that given day. All right. You know, we don't have work today. You're coming in the office, helping me on the, on the Facebook, you know, whatever it is.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Are you a part of nexter?

[A]

I am, yeah.

[B]

Okay. I don't think. I think I knew that at one point. I didn't remember.

[A]

Just got lucky. I think that the. I think they were having a lot of people exit from my market because they let me in. I am aware. I'm very lucky. They let me in when. When.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I think that it was.

[A]

It was early this year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I've been in a while already.

[B]

So.

[A]

Yeah. We went to opex, which was eye opening. That was the first time I really understood the roadmap of what a company should look like.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Knowledge. When it was like underneath the hood. Okay. Oh, you know, next day installs. Oh, okay. You know, just a lot of things that I hadn't really got, which we wouldn't have had the summer we did if I didn't at least have that part of the roadmap.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, we're still working on implementation. Right. We're far from hitting every checkbox, but because of that roadmap, we're a lot closer now.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Nexar has been a win for us too.

[A]

Yeah. And just the coaching access. There's a lot of great coaches we have access to. Example, I have our marketing manager connect with the marketing coach. There's a couple of them digital, you know, print, all that. And then I have our, you know, accounting person that connects with the accounting coach. You know, so it's really helpful to. To get like industry insider information. Yeah. Through a coaching lens. So, yeah, it's been, it's. That was, that was a big win. The OPEX was. It was a huge win. We're actually going down to the budget meeting. With my business coach.

[B]

Oh, nice.

[A]

Yeah, I'm taking, you know, taking my, one of my guys down. Yeah, we're going to sit down and try to map out next year with the budget side. You know, it'll be good to bring that back to the team and, and sort of get everybody's head wrapped around what next year can look like.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, we're doing, we're hosting one here so we have like 20 some companies popping in. Oh really? Yeah. It should be fun. Yeah, should be fun. Yeah, that, yeah, that's great. Okay. So we, we launched. That's why H Vac clone. Why? Why Starting from scratch. Like most people are buying, right? Like most people are going to go to biz by sell. They're going to find a broker, they're acquiring their way. And you did not do that.

[A]

No, I, one reason is I would argue and I'm biased obviously because I live there. So we're in Northern Virginia, the D.C. metro region. Yeah. I think I'm in arguably the most PE saturated market in the US horizon. I mean everybody's there. So most of the mid to larger companies have already been acquired and so the, the, the multiples like la, like last summer when I, you know, when I would have been looking, I mean I didn't see anything worth buying. Like the multiples were so high is one aspect of that. And I just didn't find anything that, that looked. And I didn't look too. I know people look years. Right. I looked a couple of months. You know, it's kind of watching what was available and I just, I just didn't, didn't see it. And then the other thing for me is like I kind of like, I don't know, like I like the idea of creating from scratch. I'd already done it once. Now it had a brand to build off from. I'd taken from Maryland to Virginia. Wasn't like quite like this.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You had some infrastructure.

[A]

Yeah, some infrastructure support and things. But at least I felt like I could do it. And I'd learned like solar roofing and we'd kind of built that side up from. So I was like, yeah, I just like a good challenge.

[B]

You know.

[A]

I'm a glutton for punishment I think is part of it. Right. The chaos thing I mentioned earlier. So, so just. Yeah, that, that factored into it and then culture is really important to me and I did feel like I'd have the chance from the get go to really build the culture the way I wanted. Yeah. That way. Because I mean I'm very open to acquisition for the right opportunity. Especially family owned brands that want to sell to another family brand.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Instead of a, you know, big P platform. Right. Kind of keep it in a local family brand that, that, you know, I already had those conversations. I would love to do that for the right opportunity, but I just didn't see the right opportunity. Nobody knew who I was. I didn't have a back. I also didn't have a background to where a family brand would have trusted me.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

He hasn't built anything. Who's this guy? He's in a different. From a different industry. Right. And so I just felt like I had to prove myself first. Right. And so we did. I mean in the first several months were rough in a number of ways. Right. We started out on Service Titan, which was really tough because they don't what to do with somebody that's a startup.

[B]

Yeah, they did.

[A]

They, they did not have a box to put me in. They gave me terrible support. It took months to get any type of traction with that. It was a nightmare. It was actually one of the hardest aspects of the business. We're still playing catch up on that. Like we're a year later and we're now finally finishing up custom built price books and stuff. It was tough. It was a really, really tough start with them and tough first year. But you know, we're still all in and, and making the best of it, moving forward and cleaning things up still. So that's one aspect. You know, another thing was recruitment was really, really tough. That'd be the benefit of buying. Right.

[B]

Like you get established brands.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Nobody knew who we were. And again our market's very saturated so we have a lot of big brands, a lot of really heavy hitting brands in the area. And so, so a lot of things that, that made it hard. And then even like it took me a while, I couldn't even get supplier representatives, like sales guys, outside sales guys to return my calls. Like it took a while. So I think we were around a month in or so and I finally got one guy that was like, hey, I'll come and meet with him. Yeah. Because again, we weren't doing any revenue to speak up. We didn't service work at that time. And he came into my office and he sat down and I laid out my vision, right. This is where I'm gonna go. This is what I'm building. And he bought it and he believed it and he believed in me. And he went back to his boss and he battled with them For a couple of weeks and he got me really aggressive pricing and he, he, he took.

[B]

What were you doing? Prior, like over the counter Home Depot. Like how are you getting it?

[A]

No, no, we, I mean we set up accounts, you know, I had the license and all that stuff, so we were able to set up accounts. But our pricing was terrible.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

We were just paying, we had no revenue. No. Yeah, so, so he essentially, he, he, he like went to bat for me and gave me like really like mid tier aggressive pricing, you know what I'm saying? Like, like way better than I should have gotten. Yeah. And I'm still grateful to him. And you know what, he gets a big check for me every month still. So you know, if I, the lion's share of our materials goes through him, like, I won't ever forget that he had my back, you know. And so that was, that was a rep from Ferguson actually.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so that's where we, so we became train dealers then and kind of went all in on that. Now we have multiple relationships and we're thankful for those. We have some other great, you know, great representatives as well. Like I had a, we have a great rep from, from Johnstone as well. And he came and sat down. He's like, what do I have to do to get more? I was like, well, if you'd have been here a few months ago, you know, like, you know, took my, he just, he didn't know about us or whatever. I think he might have even been new to the role. He's a great guy. But, but yeah, it was just funny. I was like, look, I, I need someone take a bet on me. And they did and it's paid off for both, you know. And so, so even this year, like made some revenue prediction or made some kind of purchased predictions and negotiated really aggressive pricing for this year. And you know, he told me, he's like, yeah, you know, I know you're not going to hit it, but we got to give him this number. We're going to crush that number. So you know, we're, we're, I think we might have already hit it, you know, on purchases. So, so no, it's, it's done.

[B]

Well, I mean, yeah, vendor like partnerships are, are real. Yeah, I think there's these like, huge deal. Yeah, it is.

[A]

You don't realize it until you're in it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

How big a deal it is like the support too. It's not just the pricing. Like that's one aspect of it. Now we can get, you know, a lot of Good pricing from a lot of places. But it's also that level of support.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What happens when you have warranty claims? How fast? And you know, well, do they handle that when they mess up? Do they own it? Like, there's a lot of aspects to it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, we, we have great relationships with a lot of local vendors now. We're thankful for that.

[B]

Are you still running your business on pen and paper or a clunky software? FieldPulse is the top rated field service management platform that saves you five to 10 hours a week. It syncs with QuickBooks and it puts scheduling, invoicing, and more all in one place. FieldPulse users grow 78% a year on average. Book your demo today using the link in the Description and get 15% off an annual plan. Field Pulse, a field service management software for those who need more. Something that was interesting. I, I had, I was talking to someone earlier today and we were talking about, like, he's. He's not an H VAC plumbing, he's in septic. And we were talking about like, the competitive landscape.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I think the competitive landscape is really interesting in plumbing H Vac because he, he was talking about his industry and septic and yeah, like, septic is not sophisticated. Right. It's like million dollar plumber or like million dollar shops is like, considered big. And it reminds me a lot of like, my early career in plumbing where, like, I remember, like $2 million was considered big right at the onset of my career. Like, that was a big shop. There was only a couple in town and there was one company, like eight. You know, they were the big dog. And it's funny now because I'm thinking about you. Like, I chose to start not buying, which I think is becoming a, like a good playbook. I agree with everything you said. Like, we're, we're about to go regional and we're way more attracted to starting than buying for all the reasons you said. Yeah, it's easier to control culture. Prices for acquisitions are like, out of hand. And frankly, it would be cheaper and probably easier for me to just launch it. Like. Yeah, not to say that it's easy, but it'd be easier than me dealing with like, cultural nightmare two hours away.

[A]

Yeah, well, and, you know, the roadmap, I'll say that's the one challenge for me. Starting from scratch and not knowing the.

[B]

Well and we have the infrastructure backing industry insiders.

[A]

Took me a few months to kind of get good traction on the recruiting side. Right. Where like, we're like yeah. I mean really only in the last. They were a year in and we're only in the last three, four months where we really have real traction. And now we've got a bunch of industry insiders that have joined the team and are bringing the friends. Right. It's a huge deal to have that huge, huge advantage. Like a lot because recruiting was really tough in those early days. You know, kind of had to take whatever we could get. You know, in a sense like just okay, we got to, got to find someone that can plug that, that role.

[B]

Yeah. So 100. Let's talk about like early lessons. What, what did we learn starting off.

[A]

In H Vac that coupled with like just what I do differently.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, you don't know what you don't know. Right. But like memberships is a huge deal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I didn't understand how big a deal it was because it hadn't been that big of a deal for my exteriors background. It was just a different business model. But I think for H vac and plumbing in particular, memberships are huge. And if you don't want to just keep paying through the nose for marketing. Right. Especially in a saturated market as well, it's like, because it's like you want to keep that customer and someone will steal it from you if you don't have a way to stay in their lives actively.

[B]

Right.

[A]

To provide value. You know, that is, it's, it's like you, you kind of own that home right. Where you're in there multiple times a year. And so I would have done, I would have pushed a lot harder, a lot faster on that, doing it over. I now in the last three months understand that and increasingly our team is focused on that and we have some real traction on that. But for our revenue is going to be for this year versus our membership. It's, you know, we're a little lopsided, you know. So a year from now I hope we're right sided and we've fixed it and we've got a really good membership base and that's really going to be our, our focus. I mean what we did, well that shocked everyone, like shocked a lot of people is reviews. Right. I think we're, I don't have the count actually. I think it's like 350, 360 reviews at this time. Right. So we've, we've done well. Five star ranking. Google and then even Yelp which has been a nightmare but we finally have traction with them. We're at 19 reviews on Yelp, they remove more than they leave. You know, that whole game. And Angie, decent amount. So. So we've pushed really hard on our reputation to establish ourselves. And these are real reviews. Like, if you read them, most of them are, you know, talking about their experience and actually mentioning people by name. And then we have quite a few with pictures. So we've tried to get quality, not just quantity.

[B]

The picture. The picture game is real.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We started a contest for that.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

And like, it ramps. So we. We. We've gone through, like, ebbs and flows of being consistent with reviews. So, like, when we're at our peak, we'll do like, 100 a week, which, like, that's a lot. When we're at our, like, low point, we'll do, like, 30 a week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, not great for our volume. But we started. We just did this new contest and, like, we started pushing. I think we're back up to, like, 70 a week or so. It was like. And most of them are pictures, which is.

[A]

That's huge.

[B]

A lot of fun. So you want to talk about how you guys delivered so well on reviews.

[A]

Just emphasizing it. The challenge for my team is, like, I feel like they do one thing really well all the time. So whatever I'm emphasizing at the time, that's the one thing they.

[B]

I think that's a core lesson for any field. Like, you should only focus on one thing because your team will only focus on one thing.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And we've learned that that hurt us. I'd like the memberships, though. It's like. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, now we're doing better on memberships, and we need a little work on reviews again. So it feels like one thing is they're going to excel at, you know, at the time. So it's finding that balance.

[B]

You can divide it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that would be a way to think about it, too, is like, how can this team focus on this and this team focus. Because that's what we ended up doing because we kept seeing the. The big swings. Yeah. So we took memberships basically out of the equation for our field pros because we wanted. Okay, like, reviews and sales. Like, that's. That's your job. Like reviews and sales and memberships, like call center. Maybe the installers, maybe the, you know, someone else up the pipe should be responsible for the membership.

[A]

That's a good point. That's a great point.

[B]

So because they will only focus, like, you can only give them so much to do.

[A]

Right. Well, what I would say we've done well. So we have a text chain basically with all, you know, all us based people, you know, in it, and we shout out reviews on the regular.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So anytime someone gets a really great review, especially, you know, very detailed and mentioning people by name, then we'll share that and we celebrate that. So I do feel like as a business owner, you get more of what you celebrate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And too often we only celebrate sales. Right. Or you only. And it's like reviews. Yeah, we just celebrated it from early on, we emphasized it. It kind of became a core part of our culture.

[B]

Is like just reviews are like top three most important things. Yeah. It is kind of wild. And I think in the age of like, AI and like how search is changing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's only becoming a bigger and bigger deal.

[A]

Yeah. Like, yeah, in the beginning you'd search Swift Pro and the first thing comes up is a printer. Yeah. You know, I, I was jokingly showing our install manager. I was like, look, even A.I. now it'll say Swift Pro is two things. It's actually a H Vac plumbing company in Northern Virginia. And then second thing it is, it's a printer. I was like, you finally took number one.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

And even on a local Google search, you'll see, like, you don't have to put Swift Pro H Vac anywhere. You just put Swift Pro and we'll come up using number one. So that's funny. So, yeah, that, that. But just back to what we did well. We did. We did well on the reviews. We've maintained. We keep coming back to that, harping on that we did well on. When I finally brought on a service manager a few months ago, like, he was shocked. He's like, how are you doing all these installs and you have no service? He just didn't get it. But, but I hadn't. I knew the Angie game and I knew like, how to get leads and then how to sell. Right. And that's what I was good at. Now we're still working on building out more the service side, you know, so that we keep that again, the memberships, but also service demand calls, all that. And so we've really focused on that in the last, last several months. So probably would have emphasized that sooner, you know, if I, if I could have again, you can only do so much at the same time. But yeah, I mean, the, the other thing we did a good job of is we built a real brand. You know, I, I didn't mess around. Like, I, you know, I outsourced that. We we hired professionals. We came up with what I think is a, you know, it's a great looking band wrap and we, we put, we invest a lot of money in that and invest a lot of money in van wraps. We invest a lot of money in our website. Just wanting to look legitimate from day one, you know, nobody was showing up in a white van, you know what I mean? And, and so we look real from day one as a real company.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so we, we really, I think have done a good job for one year in on that. Now we're trying to build out all the socials and gain followers and all that.

[B]

Y. Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about people. So you said you started to dial this in, you're developing better people. Walk me through the people journey.

[A]

Yeah. I think what I have found is that two things, our best people are coming from referrals, friends of friends, essentially. Right. Or at least people they know fairly well, they've worked with in the past. And that's most of our growth, most of our people growth. We're up to about 25 team members in total right now. Most of our growth and our best people have come through that. Friends of friends. And now we have quite the chains going. Sometimes it's this friend brings this friend, then this friend brings this friend and you know, and it's multiple people deep. So that's been fun. And as opposed to recruiting from random essentially and not having that now initially I was a little bit scared of that because it's like, well, what if they bring their friend? It doesn't work out.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But the opposite has happened for us. Right. As long as they, it's like they knew that this friend was going to be a good culture fit like they knew they were going to, they knew what Swift Pro was. The sacrifices you have to make, the fact that we're building a brand, we're not established. The fact is that we can't be as competitive on benefits yet and things like that. But we offer a lot of opportunity, a lot of, a lot of development, growth and that they can grow with the company. They could be in a completely different role within 6 to 12 months if they, you know, work their butt off that, that kind of thing. And so it tracks those types of people so they know the people that should be coming, you know. And so now as I've kind of gained more trust and just empower people and giving in some cases referral bonuses for key hires, that, that kind of thing, it's really, we've really gained Traction. And so, so it's been to. To the point where we have more people that would join, you know, and want to join as soon as. As soon as. For them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's, you know, that's been key. And then the other thing is, I'm really big on in this time around. It's just proved it again, it's really tough to hire leaders. I, I think the best in most situations is to promote from within. Find people you trust and then, you know, that have high character, that know how to do the job, that they're going to lead others in and then be able to promote them into leadership roles. And so we're doing more of that now. Like my install manager, who still has to go out the field to do installs, sometimes has to go to troubleshooting on systems, callbacks, that kind of thing. But he was our first lead installer, you know, and as opposed to someone I had hired for that role, like, installs run smoothly now. He knows what he needs to do to set that up for success.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So even though he hasn't been in that role as an installer, he knew what he always wanted, he knew what he liked from other people that have supported him in the past, from other companies. And so he's helping us build that. So that's, you know, that's, that's been key and then just the importance of culture and that's a constant battle.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, we still have a long ways to go with systems, processes, accountability, the right performance structure, like for incentive pay and that kind of thing. We're still figuring that out and navigating that. But as I've seen, you know, with newer hires, if I can find the right incentive structure, those are the people that perform the best. And so we're really trying to dial that in and navigate our way through that and then shift more of our team towards that model. So they're just, you know, they're winning when the company wins and they have more upside, you know, to really drive the goals, you know, whatever they're contributing to in the company.

[B]

Yeah, I think the promoting from within, like you've walked around the office, you probably saw that. Yeah, A few people up on some of our walls at this, at this point, there's only, I think there's 20 liters or 18, maybe two were external hires. Wow. Like into that seat. Like, obviously everyone at one point was an external player, but right directly into that seat. It is kind of interesting as it starts to, as it starts to snowball. I think One of the. There's like, good and bad. So I want to add this caveat just as people think about this. What we found with internal hires is one, our hit rate is better. So like, our chance of success with an internal hire is like 9 out of 10. Our chance for success with next year or higher is like 2 out of 10.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, that's been really challenging. But how. You have to be able to figure out external hires too, especially in leadership, because eventually you will come up on problems.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

That is not. No one in your business knows the answer to.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And they're core problems. Like how do you sell? Like, do you need an H VAC sales manager.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Or do you need like trying to think of something else like a sales trainer? Like someone could do an acceptable job at it. But sometimes you need world class. And I think.

[A]

Yeah. You know, 100%.

[B]

I think, like nailing that down. Because when we were like 5 million, almost all of our hires were external.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For leadership. And some of them terrible and some of them amazing. Right, right. But I never really cracked the code on that. I mean, now it's easy because we have like leadership development cohorts and we have like 25 people to choose from to promote and. But yet it's harder.

[A]

Yeah. So an example would be our service manager. 32 years in the business.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Worked for several of the largest companies in the region. You know, kind of been there, done that, learned that. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So finding him was key.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I hired like, it was actually like a difficult decision for me, you know, because I was like, is this going to fit our culture? Right. He's. He's kind of already a very set in his ways, in a sense. Right. And so we had several meetings about it. He came recommended from the guy told you about the, you know, the, The. The sale outside sales rep from. From person that had. That had connected me with him. He's like, man, I know you both really well. And I was like, these guys don't come available very often. He's like, I really think you should grab them, Tyler.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so a couple meetings and I finally just took a swing. I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna. I'm gonna go for it. Cause even my. My next star coach was hesitant. He's like, I don't think. I think he'd be care. You know, because he's just. He's probably seen it go wrong a bunch of times.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That was a really key hire for us.

[B]

Yeah. He.

[A]

I now have six People on my team that came from him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All young, hungry and motivated and fit our culture.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that, you know, and then we now have, you know, we have a list of other people through him and the other people that want to join our team when the time is right, you know, and we can give them the right opportunity. All because of, of that where it's like, we didn't have that before. So that was, that was one of the key breakthroughs that we needed. So I would just say now, like, moving forward, my hope is that when we're not promoting from within, we're hiring through a connection that we already have that can say this person leads with character in integrity and fits our culture. They're going to work their butt off. They're not coming to sit on a chair. You know, they, they, they are not coming just to plug the clock nine to five and go home. Like, they're going to do what it takes. Their team player and they understand our core values. Right. Like, like, or they're in alignment rather with their, with our core values. Because if somebody from inside that's, you know, that's recommending them. So that's what I hope can happen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because like you said, otherwise it's a little bit of a roll the dice. You know, you're going to get some right and you're going wrong.

[B]

That's really, it's really tough.

[A]

And it's really tough. The toughest thing is it takes a while to figure that out, too.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Some people can come in and everything's great and then until it's not, you.

[B]

Know, it's like, oh, well. Yeah. Over time, it depends on, like, where are they in the leadership stack? Is this a frontline leader or a senior leader? But like a senior leader, what we've learned is it, it takes like a year for them to, like, it takes less than a year for them to begin making an impact, but it takes a year for them to, like, drive real impact. Yeah. Like, they can make some entry level, like, hey, I'm here. You know, all that stuff. Right. Like, a year's a long time.

[A]

It is.

[B]

That's a lot can go wrong in a year.

[A]

That's. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's tough.

[B]

It is tough. I mean, frontline leadership is a little bit more straightforward. Like, you can usually get a pretty good pulse in like 60 days.

[A]

Yeah. And one of my keys to, you know, key principles is what I call 3M. So I'm just really big on that. I only want leaders that practice what I call 3M. So it's model, mentor, multiply. So number one, you got to be a model of what you're leading others to do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In most cases, that means you can do the work or have done the work and you can do it well. And so you can teach that, you know, but it's also just the work ethic, the attitude. Right. That you got to be a model of, of, of that and hold the standard high and then mentor, where you're actually willing to teach others, coach others, mentor them to understand that, you know, we can't just have exponential growth unless we come alongside someone and show them the right way to do it and give helpful feedback and, and kind of be in it for the long term. So it's like that model. Okay, watch me do it and I'm gonna model it for you. Mentor. It's like, all right, we're gonna do it together, you know, and then multiply where they can now do the same thing. And so it's like. But if you just jump to multiplication, it's just mayhem. Because if that person's not a model, for example, they're not leading from a place of authenticity. Nobody takes them seriously, nobody respects them. They can't hold anybody accountable, you know, or if they don't take the time to mentor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then especially for the younger, younger people, like, it's just, it's gonna be really tough for them to, to learn. They're not gonna just learn from a book, you know, or here's, you know, here's our five steps. Like, they, they need to see it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They need to get feedback on it. Right. They need to have someone in the trenches with them.

[B]

So, yeah. Yeah, this resonates. I like the way it's laid out. We mentally think of it this way. We don't, like, verbalize it. So this is going to be one of my, like, takeaways. Someone gave me this from Next Art. They're a nextar member and they talked about training the trainers, which, like, at first was like, okay, sure, yeah. But then I, I was listening to a Chad Peterman's podcast, which is Can't Stop the Growth. It's a great, it's a great show. Primarily like an internally faced show, like, about how to develop his team. And he spends a lot of time on the multiplication of leaders and, like, thinking through that and just thinking through, like our own team. It was clear, like, in some areas we've done an amazing job and in some areas we've done a terrible job of, Of Doing that. Right. Like, it was. It was a good, like, mirror because there were definitely some wins and some not. But it did help us reform how we think about leadership development, which we're pretty. I'd give us like a 6 out of 10 on like, we do it. It's intentional. It's a real program. We are actively graduating people from it.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

Into leadership. We. I think we're on our fifth graduate now. So, like, it is an. It is a real part of our business. So like six out of ten, maybe seven. But like the, the big focus on multiplication was. I think like, that's our 7 to 9 of being able to. How do we like create this training program to then spit out these leaders? We did that. We did a good job of that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

What we didn't do a good job of was then continuing ed training for those leaders. This train, the trainer mentality, where they turn it, where they can now like multiply themselves amongst their 90 people in the field and suddenly we're developing more people for the cohort.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, that was a big lesson for us, like in the past four months that we really, like, stuck with.

[A]

Yeah, no, we've got a lot to build out with that. You know, as we said, a year in and a lot of people joined in the last few months.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, you know, you know, it's kind of.

[B]

I mean, you've got. You've got the framework like nine years ahead of me, so. Yeah. That's amazing. You launched plumbing. How quick into this did you launch plumbing? I think it's a common conversation that I see. Like, when do I launch the second trade? Like, you're a year in and you have two trades. So like clearly somewhat quick.

[A]

Right. So we were looking for a plumber because we recognized that we needed in house expertise. You know, we don't want to sub it out, obviously. And H vac guys can only do so much plumbing, you know, I mean, like, it's very. Something very minor because sometimes it. Well, running a water line for a humidifier that we're installing on a furnace, you know, say things like that. But. But like, we couldn't really do real plumbing till we had a plumber. And so we had ads out. We were looking. This is somebody that came through recruiting agency, but I had a master plumber come in for an interview. And I looked at his resume and looked him up before he came. And I'm like, what in the world? This guy's got a company? And so he came, sat down, like, what Happened to your company? He's like, I just shut it down. Yeah.

[B]

This happens.

[A]

You know, he'd ran it a couple decades.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It went well in the last few years. Hadn't gone well.

[B]

Too tough.

[A]

And so he'd never really built a team. He had a couple employees at one point, but he never had, like, an office staff or anything like that. And so I was like, all right. And so, long story short, we ended up. I ended up hiring him and then buying his brand from him and his list of customers and his phone number and his website. That kind of thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so it's called the Irish Plumber. And so we. We haven't done a ton with it. We've done a little bit of revamping of it, but honestly. Because then by the time, you know, we kind of. We tried to find more plumbers and have had a hard time getting traction until recently on that front.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

And so we just kind of went into maintenance mode on that. His custom list kept him busy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And so we had the phone number, and we just kind of ran with the customers we had. We converted some of them to H vac. And that was part of the goal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We did a lot of outbound on.

[B]

His old customers, you know, successfully.

[A]

Moderately. Moderately. I mean, he didn't have an engaged customer base. He wasn't doing any kind of regular engagement, no membership, that kind of thing. They would just call him when they needed him. Right. And so it's been really up and down, but. But fairly steady for him. And then usually we've had one other person in the plumbing role in the plumbing seat as well. And so that. And then we started to, like, April. We spiked. Right. April was our first month. We got over 200 in revenue.

[B]

Yeah. And this is five, six months in, seven months in.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And so we're like, all right. You know, because we've been kind of hovering right around that 150 mark from November onwards. Right. Per month. And then April jumped, and we're like, all right, summer's coming. Got excited. And so I just doubled down on H vac. Right. To be honest, I put plumbing on maintenance mode. Can only focus on so many things. And I'm like, I got to scale up H Vac. And so April through the summer, I focused on scaling that up. May we hit 300. And then June was lights out. We went almost 800 in revenue in June.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

And then July was great until the end, you know, and then August sort of nosedived a bit. Which I think across the industry experienced that. But we had a lot of really mild weather. Like 70s. Yeah. From the end of July onwards. And so that was challenging coupled with I think busy back to school month and a lot of other things. And so came down quite a bit. And so in the last two months in particular, I've really refocused on plumbing. I think that's going to give us long term stability and so we're focused on expanding that right now. We're bringing another younger plumber on the team soon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who's got pretty robust background, very hungry, willing to work nights, weekends, whatever it takes and help grow something. Very motivated, wants to be a leader and hasn't had that opportunity. So we're super excited about him. He's in a perfect stage of life to do this and, and good background, good base to work off from. Has some, you know, good experience with underground and things as well. So yeah, we're excited about that. That's kind of where we're at right now. So plumbing is a big focus on our of ours right now to really scale that up and I think that'll help to give us more stability as well.

[B]

Yeah. One of the tools I've personally seen make a huge difference for service business owners is quo formerly open phone. Because when you miss a call, you're not just missing a conversation, you're losing business. Who is the modern business phone slide solution. Powered by AI that helps you stay responsive and connected. It logs calls, creates summaries and automates next steps from drag and drop setup to AI powered call tags. Every detail is designed to make your phone system smarter, your customers happier and your team more in sync. It's one of those tools that makes you wonder why you didn't already switch 90,000 businesses already have. Start your 7 day free trial at the link below and get 20% off your first 6 months just for being a part of the owned and operated crew. Whoa. No missed calls, no missed customers. Well, you reinvested a lot of your early profits. What was your first year's revenue like? First 12 months. What was first year's revenue?

[A]

I mean we're at 3.3 since January.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, we're chasing five.

[B]

We are probably like 3.5. Yeah.

[A]

So yeah, I think we had hit right around 3,5400 in our first four months. Yeah. September, October would. Virtually nothing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was mostly November and December combined I think was a little north of 300 and September, October a little bit in there. It was just, maybe just under four yeah. So, yeah, I mean, definitely right around what we are. What we are now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because October we did. We did about four.

[B]

Yeah. So, okay, so someone's launching a business. What's the big piece of advice you're going to give them as they go to launch a home service brand?

[A]

I would have to say start with the end in mind. So that comes back to the first part of our conversation. I think it's really important to know your why. Because if you don't, you're gonna go through hell to build a business. The ups and downs are real. It's a roller coaster and the lows can be low. And you can wake up a lot of mornings like I have in this last year and be like, what the heck did I do? Yeah, like, why am I doing this?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because. Or go to bed late at night, you know, after another 14, 16 hour day and you're putting out fires, you know, so there's a lot of tough days, especially early on. Right. And so I think it's really important to know your why if you have a family to include them. You know, there was a lot of family conversations because you know what, I miss a lot with my family. I do. There's no shortcuts if you're going to build something. And so if you want to keep your family and have them not hate you, I think one key is to have them on board with why you're doing what you're doing. That this is, you know, and have your reasons for that. Like, for us, it's part of our family legacy. We want to build a family business. My oldest son, you know, he wants to follow my footsteps. So there's a lot going into that for us. But whatever that looks like for you, I think it's important to know your why. Have your family on board.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have a trusted circle. Because I think one of the mistakes that can happen is you can, you can face isolation, entrepreneurialism, you know, you're building something, man. It's freaking lonely. It's going to take you a while to build a leadership roster that makes you not feel alone. Like, like, it just takes a while, in my opinion.

[B]

Took me nine years. Partner. Yeah, it took me nine years.

[A]

Start with a really great partner and sometimes that happens and that's wonderful. But most of the time, especially if you're the sole owner operator, it's going to take some time, man. And so I think having a few other business owners in your corner, like, I know you have groups that people can be part of. I think that's key. I think it's really key because on the lowest of days you need someone that you can call that'll answer your call and kind of have your back. I have that. So that's a, you know, that's a huge help to me. And then, and then it's like, figure out the right pathway for you. Like for example, you know the brand we came up with, Swift Pro, fast and professional. And then also H VAC Plumbing, it fits me. I like speed, I like chaos. I like solving problems. I like responding to urgent situations. I like what we, you know, do I like every aspect of what we do?

[B]

No.

[A]

Do I like being in 110 degree attic inspecting if you know, a furnace or an air handler in the middle of summer? No. Like, do I like having to deal with calls at 11 o' clock at night? No. There's parts of it that are not fun, but overall I find a lot of fulfillment in what I do. And what we're building in the brand we're building fits me, you know, is, is like I'm all about, like, I try to, I'm always trying to become a better version of myself and I go fast. Right. Like we have like we're, we're trying to hit 5 million in our first year here, first full calendar year. And so I think those are our key things, right? Like having that vision, the values, the why I think is key. And knowing what you're trying to do, having your family on board, having people in your corner and then being really clear with team members you hire about where you're going and what they're joining. Yeah, I'm like, I'm very clear. He's like, I'm not going to offer you world class benefits. I hope to you're going to help me build something that I hope can provide you world class benefits. But we don't have it today, you know, so don't be what you're not, but what I can give you is opportunity to grow and become something you're not today that you can grow with me. You could become a leader in this organization. I'm not going to give it to you. You're going to earn it, you know, but if you help me build this, then the sky's the limit. You know, we're creating the road together. And so when you invite people into that and you're very honest about what you can and can't do, but what the opportunity is and you can communicate that in a compelling way, people can get behind that, get excited. Like we have more talent than we deserve. Yeah, we, you know, in terms of where we're at in a business. Right. Yeah, we have some really great people that work for us. I, you know, honestly, like, they just take enormous pride in their work, you know, that are just top notch. And we have them because they believe in where we're going and they believe that this provides them an opportunity to build their career in a way that a more established brand would not be able to do. And then we lean hard into being a family brand. And our, most of our team members are attracted to that. Like they want to be part of a local, kind of the best of the old world, you know, the best family brand that also embraces technology, embraces growth, embraces, you know, trying to be the best at what we do.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then them becoming that. And so, so, yeah, like we're like if somebody wants a 9 to 5, it's like, look, we're not the place for you. Right. If you just want something really comfortable, if you want really secure benefits, we're not the place for you. But if you want to come build something, if you want a wild journey, you know, if you want opportunity, if you could imagine yourself in a completely different role in two to three years, we can give you that opportunity and you could come build it with us.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's compelling. I think so. It sounds like I'm going to add on to yours just a little bit. It's knowing where, but also being able to communicate it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I, I think that you, you hit it, but being able to share that is where rubber meets the road.

[A]

Yeah. Like early my first hire, I did a one pager.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like our, I called it the Swift Pro Manifesto. I still have that and it's still true. Right. And, and that, that really helped me to just kind of articulate in a concise fashion who we are, why we're doing what we're doing and where we're going. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, and then do you want to be part of that ride? Right. So like interviews. All right. You're onboarding. Like we kind of try to embed that we don't have as formal of a process as like you guys do and what we should yet. But we try at least with what we have to communicate the mission, the values, the vision, you know, and make sure people are up for it, you know, that they're, they're, they're on board and then people self select out. Like we, we miss on the hire sometimes, you know, and we hired a really Great person for a role with a lot of experience. But very shortly into that, they realized they were not the right fit for our culture. They didn't want to work 12 hours in a day, which sometimes is required. I don't recall that all the time. I'm just saying it's whatever it takes in our company. Right? Yeah, they didn't want to do that. You know, they didn't want to be out late at night. They're like, I just. Sorry. You know, you told me, you know, you told me what it was. But I get, you know, a week to two weeks in and I realized like this is not. Yeah, you know, it's actually, I think it was like, you know, it's like just over a week and they're like, yeah, this is just not the fit. And they were able to self select out. We didn't waste a lot of time because we're really clear about what we are and what we're not.

[B]

So yeah. Yeah, I think that's great. Well, thanks for coming on today. This was a ton of fun getting to dive into the journey and I'm thankful you shared it.

[A]

Yeah, thanks, John. Appreciate it.

[B]

If people want to get a hold of you, how can they, how can they find you?

[A]

Yeah, I'm on most social media. I mean obviously Swift bro, like we love, love any support and follows we can get, especially if you're in our region. So please, please give us a, like, give us a follow on, you know, Facebook, Instagram, etc. I'm personally on there. You can search me. I love connecting with folks on Facebook or Instagram. I'm also on Twitter and so underscore scrappy startup. Okay, that's, that's me and that's what this is. It's a scrappy startup. You know that, that, that we're building here. So would love to, to connect on there and hoping that can happen. But yeah, it's just fun to connect especially with other business owners, people that are building, people building from scratch or buying or you know, just we can all learn together.

[B]

Yeah, thank you.

[A]

Yeah.