Billboards for Home Service Businesses: When They Work (and When They’re a Waste)

Summary

Owned and Operated Podcast
Episode: “Billboards for Home Service Businesses: When They Work (and When They’re a Waste)”
Hosts: John Wilson & Sam Preston
Date: March 10, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Owned and Operated dives deep into the effectiveness of billboard advertising for home service businesses. John Wilson and guest Sam Preston discuss when billboards can propel brand awareness and when they’re just a waste of resources. They explore strategy, common mistakes, branding vs. lead generation, issues with attribution, and share memorable examples from their markets—with candid takes, real numbers, and practical advice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Billboards: Where Do They Fit In Your Strategy?

• Billboards as Part of a Larger Strategy:
  “Billboard done right is a part of a larger strategy…Maybe we’re doing TV, maybe we’re doing radio…where I see people not doing it well is why are they paying $1,000 a month for one single billboard on a road that nobody drives on?” (John Wilson, 00:00)
• Budget Spectrum:
  Billboards can be affordable at both a $500/month scale and $50,000/month for bigger brands, making them accessible but also dangerous for underfunded businesses.
• Effective Use:
  Best results come when billboards are combined with other branding elements and cover significant real estate, saturating markets for maximum memorability.
  “That’s the way to win…when you literally take up so much real estate.” (Sam Preston, 05:33)

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2. When Billboards Fail

• Wasted Spend:
  John shares a cautionary tale—a $5M plumbing business allocating $20K/month (2/3 of their marketing budget) to billboards with no growth:
  “It was all of their branding budget and they weren’t doing TV or radio to combine it...billboards isn’t the thing. Billboards is a part of the thing.” (John Wilson, 10:48)
• Ego Over Strategy:
  Billboard spend by small companies often reflects ego, not strategic thinking:
  “There’s like an ego thing there. Like, I saw my name…Meanwhile, you have no calls on the board. This is not strategy, it’s desperation.” (John Wilson, 11:11, 27:42)
• Desperation Trap:
  Many contractors turn to billboards as a last hope for leads, not as a data-driven choice.

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3. Branding & Memorability: What Works?

• Keep it Memorable, Keep it Simple:
  “It has to be memorable, and it has to be easy…has to actually pull back to your brand.” (Sam Preston, 12:09)
• Funny or Eye-Catching Succeeds:
  Billboards that are funny, cheeky, or visually unique stick—e.g., a local injury attorney’s billboard featuring just his trademark arched eyebrow.
  “That’s billboards done right…he’s probably also spending $50K a month on billboards.” (John Wilson, 06:17)
• Short, Distinct Messaging:
  Phone numbers and coupons on billboards aren’t as effective as memorable branding.
• Cheeky Has Limits:
  Some humor can go overboard—legal billboards with “dick jokes” might be memorable, but may backfire (34:08).

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4. Measurement and Attribution Challenges

• Difficult to Attribute Direct Leads:
  Most people won’t call off a number on a billboard while driving—attribution is more nuanced.
  • How does brand investment convert to leads?
    “The way we like to measure it is branded search...” (John Wilson, 14:57)
  • Look for an increase in branded searches (i.e., people Googling “Wilson Plumbing”).
• Attribution Often Misses Billboard’s True Impact:
  Much of the effect shows up as increased branded search traffic, not direct calls or website visits.

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5. Digital vs. Analog Marketing

• Why Some Owners Like Billboards:
  Billboards (like direct mail) feel controllable and aren’t subject to Google/Facebook’s algorithm changes.
• Saturation/Density Matters:
  Having a few billboards spread out is less effective than saturating high-traffic corridors or specific markets. “Maybe if you’re trying to do billboards well, pack them as tight as you can…like five or ten in a zip code feels really good to me.” (John Wilson, 24:19)

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6. When (and If) Billboards Make Sense

• Best for Mature, Large-Scale Businesses:
  “Billboards done well needs to be a part of a branding strategy, and you’re not affording a branding strategy till like $20–25 million.” (John Wilson, 41:16)
  • Under $20M revenue? Focus overwhelmingly on lead generation, not branding.
• Caution for Small Businesses:
  Small operators see better returns buying leads (e.g., LSA, PPC) over billboards.
• Hiring Campaigns:
  Billboards may work well for mass, unskilled or semi-skilled hiring (e.g. landscaping, power washing), less so for skilled trades (30:48).

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7. Tracking Performance

• Be Prepared for Public Feedback:
  Out-of-home advertising invites direct public response—good or bad. “The public will contact you if they don’t like it. So…potentially a con.” (John Wilson, 34:41)
• Mistaking Awareness for ROI:
  Hearing “I saw your billboard” feels good, but may not drive business:
  “That’s somebody that knows you…They commented that they saw it. It wasn’t like you didn’t drive a dollar from that.” (John Wilson, 39:16)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ego vs. Strategy:
  “Billboard done right is a part of a larger strategy…Where I see people not doing it well is why are they paying $1,000 a month for one single billboard on a road that nobody drives on?” (John Wilson, 00:00)
• On Branding Spend:
  “Billboards isn’t the thing. Billboards is a part of the thing.” (John Wilson, 10:48)
• On Being Memorable:
  “We did some that were intentionally misspelled…that’s the most phone calls we got—people love correcting our typos.” (John Wilson, 32:51)
• On Market Saturation:
  “I actually think I saw 15 billboards from Tim Misney on my way to work and I have a 22 minute drive.” (John Wilson, 23:55)
• On Results vs. Recognition:
  “The ego component…they’ll hear like, ‘Hey, I saw your billboard.’ So in their mind, they’re like: Oh, someone saw my billboard, it worked. But…you didn’t drive a dollar from that.” (John Wilson, 39:16)
• Strong Take on Growth Tactics:
  “If you’re under $20 million…stop being cheeky with it…literally just go buy the freaking leads…once you hit kind of a bit of a cap, like $20 million—that’s when you invest in branding.” (John Wilson, 41:58)

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Practical Takeaways & Advice

When Billboards Work

• As a piece of a major branding campaign across broadcast, streaming, and physical spaces
• With significant spend to saturate an area, driving true brand recognition
• For very large, diversified or mature businesses as a brand maintenance/growth tool

When They’re a Waste

• For small and medium businesses looking for direct ROI or desperate for next-week leads
• As a stand-alone or ego play without supporting marketing channels
• When deployed as a “Hail Mary” instead of a measured, integrated strategy

Keys to Effective Billboards

• Simple, memorable messages that connect clearly to your brand
• Humor/cheekiness—but not so much it alienates or confuses
• Concentrated presence—own a market, not just a stray intersection
• Don’t expect magic: measure impact with increases in branded searches and organic/direct inquiries

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00 – The necessity of strategy with billboards; pitfalls of ego spend.
• 05:33 – The value of real estate dominance (“that’s the way to win”).
• 10:48 – Real-world example of lost ROI on billboards for a $5M business.
• 14:57 – How to measure billboards’ true impact (branded search).
• 23:55 – Power of density: saturating commutes with your branding.
• 27:42 – The heartbreak of desperation-led marketing spend.
• 30:48 – When billboards are useful for hiring.
• 32:51 – Creative approaches: intentional typos, cheekiness, and public feedback.
• 41:16 – Hard threshold: Only consider major branding (billboards) above ~$20M in revenue.

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a candid, nuanced take on billboards: creatively, they can build a brand’s omnipresence in the right context, but without the scale, supporting media, or a clear strategy, they’re usually a waste—sometimes an expensive, ego-driven one. For most home service businesses, the advice is clear: get your lead generation house in order before you dream of your name on the roadside.

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Next Week: Wrapping Trucks—get ready for more strong opinions!

Transcript

[John Wilson]

Billboard done right is a part of a larger strategy. You know, Roku or YouTube, TV, maybe we're doing radio. Where I see people not doing it well is why are they paying $1,000 a month for one single billboard on a road that nobody drives on?

[Sam Preston]

You have to make it memorable. Has to tie back to your brand. It can't just be funny. It's got to like funny, and it makes sense. I think the thing I dislike about it, once you get that billboard up, it's hard to change.

[John Wilson]

There's like an ego thing there. Like, I saw my name.

[Sam Preston]

Family is very proud of you.

[John Wilson]

Meanwhile, like, you have no calls on the board. This is not strategy, is desperation.

[Sam Preston]

Somebody please test this and let us know how that goes for you.

[John Wilson]

I like overarching opinion on billboards is. Welcome back to Owned and Operated. I am your host, John Wilson. I'm the CEO of Wilson Plumbing, Heating, Cooling, and Electric in Ohio and Indiana. And for fun, I run a podcast where I talk to my friends about how to build their home service business. Today I have Sam Preston, the CEO of Service Scalers, back on the show for our continuing series Clicks to Calls, where we unpack each episode a different segment of marketing. We've done gmb, we've done lsa, ppc. When to hire a marketing manager, and today we're talking about billboards. Welcome back.

[Sam Preston]

Hey.

[John Wilson]

In person.

[Sam Preston]

In person.

[John Wilson]

In person.

[Sam Preston]

I like this.

[John Wilson]

Loud and proud.

[Sam Preston]

I like this.

[John Wilson]

This is nice. It's definitely a better experience in person. Yeah. Zoom does exist, but, yeah, this is better.

[Sam Preston]

Do I look different in person? Like. Like significant.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. The studio lighting, I think, but yeah. No, I mean, the hair is still something to get used to.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah. No longer being pulled back into a bun.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. I mean, you had long hair for, like, 14 inches. Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

So I only know that because I donated it. So, like, you had to have longer than 12 inches to be able to.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. That is kind of cool.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Well, today we're talking. We're talking billboards.

[Sam Preston]

Yep.

[John Wilson]

What's your, like, experience level with billboards?

[Sam Preston]

Oh, massive. Big billboard guy. And by that, I mean literally none.

[John Wilson]

None.

[Sam Preston]

I have seen a lot of billboards.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

And I've seen ones that I like.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

And then ones that I like. I don't get it. Yeah. And so I'm excited to learn from you today, like, what makes a good billboard.

[John Wilson]

I have, like, kind of harsh opinions on billboards.

[Sam Preston]

Do you? I've heard you. You have one opinionated and passionate about billboards. So I'm excited.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. I think Billboards. I think billboards are funny, but, yeah, we. We'll. We'll unpack it. Okay. So, like, I probably shouldn't have to define it, but what is the billboard? We're going to.

[Sam Preston]

We are going to tell me.

[John Wilson]

This is the Internet. So billboards are giant signs, like on the highway, or almost always on the highway, maybe side streets or whatever, main roads, where there is a visual display of some sort, where it has the company name, maybe a message, a photo. So, yeah, large. Out of home. That's the categories out of home advertising. Some other things that fall into out of home. Like bus stops.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Buses, maybe sports arenas. That might fall into out of home. I actually don't know if that does, because that might be its own category, which is.

[Sam Preston]

Sure.

[John Wilson]

Sponsorships.

[Sam Preston]

Big signs in New York City.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. I don't know. But, like, out of home is its own category of advertising. So billboard is probably the biggest part of out of home. There's the static ones, which, like, they physically print a piece of paper and, like, put it up there for a month. And then there's the revolving ones, which are like the big TVs on the side of the highways.

[Sam Preston]

Yep.

[John Wilson]

It's kind of inexpensive medium, like, to do at scale. People do it a lot because it can be cheap, too. So, like, maybe that's one of the benefits of it, is you can cover almost any budget. Like, you could do something if you had $500 a month, and you could do something if you had $50,000 a month. Yeah. And you can cover the whole spectrum. It's sort of like Facebook ads in that way. Yeah. We're like, you can start, you can go as big as you want, versus, like, tv. Like, you can't really go as big as you want. Radio or as small as you want. Like, there's a threshold, but bu is like, you can start pretty small.

[Sam Preston]

Nice.

[John Wilson]

And that's usually what I see is, like, it's either a company that has no business advertising on billboards, but, like, they could afford it because it's 500amonth or thousand dollars a month or something. And they're like, okay, hey, this will work. Or it's a gigantic company and they're doing like a hundred billboards at a time, and it's a core part of their branding. And like, those are the two buckets that I tend to see.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Not many people in the middle, because I think people just find more efficient ways to drive leads.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

So, like, they try billboards. They're like, that thousand dollars would do Better on lsa.

[Sam Preston]

Right.

[John Wilson]

So then they go to LSA and then much larger, they're, they're doing, hey, we need branding. Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

So I assume billboards, although you can start small with a smaller budget.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

Is way more effective when you have a bigger budget. Which obviously everything. But I feel like the thing about billboards is like you just keep popp and up. Like I know that I should not scream. I should call aem, which is a billboard in my area for some sort of injury. Injury attorney. And it's, I've seen his, his, his stuff everywhere.

[John Wilson]

Like car. That's our local one.

[Sam Preston]

Nice, nice. Jeff Cook is our real estate agent. That's literally everywhere. Yeah. And so I feel like that's the way to win is where you take up so much real estate is when you literally. I'm spitting.

[John Wilson]

I think that's billboards done right. Yeah. So there's. And comically it's always injury attorneys because we have a big injury attorney here. It's Tim Misney and his branding is so freaking good. It's at the point where like I passed a billboard on the way. I passed probably 15 of his billboards on the way to work today, which I don't even think I'm exaggerating. And like one of them was just Misney. Like, and everybody knows, like, oh yeah, fucking Tim Misney. Of course.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

A couple years ago. Like he's known for having. It's a very distinct face. Like he's a serious looking face, bald headed guy. And, and he does this thing with his eyebrow where like one eyebrow arches like 2 inches higher than the other. So I don't know if he's trademarked his eyebrow or not, but there was a year where all of his billboards were literally just the eyebrow and everyone knew exactly who the hell this guy was. And it was. And I think that's, that's billboards done done right. But he's probably also spending 50 grand a month on billboards. Like he's on hundreds of billboards at a time in addition to his, his other mediums. And so all that to say I think billboard done right is a part of a larger strategy. And so that could be, hey, we're, we're doing over the top, which is like, you know, Roku or YouTube or Hulu or whatever. It's over the top marketing. Maybe we're doing tv, maybe we're doing radio and we have this message on, you know, our broadcast advertising. And billboard brings an in person out of home component to that advertising. So like, hey, we've got this ad on tv and we have this billboard that matches that ad on tv. Yeah. And I think that is when you do it well. But it takes money.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

That's like a $50,000 a month spend. Where I see people not doing it well is I. I'll pass a billboard and I'm like, I know this company. I know they have five technicians. Yeah. Why are they paying a thousand dollars a month for one single billboard on a road that nobody drives on?

[Sam Preston]

Right.

[John Wilson]

And I feel like that's when my opinion on billboards is like, what the hell are you doing?

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

It's time again for our Breaking5 workshop. This is the fifth time we've done it and we've had over 130 contractors go through this cohort. If you're hovering between 1 and 5 million of revenue and you're feeling stuck, then you're not alone. I know the hesitation. Can I really step away from my business for three days? Is the workshop actually going to be worth it? Is it too h vac specific? Well, here's the truth. Breaking five isn't a big conference. It's 25 to 30 operators in a small room. It's highly tactical. There's no rah rah nonsense. You'll be alongside myself and Jack Carr at my home service business in Akron, seeing the actual systems behind accounting, call center dispatch service. Install the real bottlenecks. You're going to work alongside other operators at your exact stage to build a plan that you implement the second you get home. The networking alone is worth it and the clarity is game changing. Three days, limited to 30 seats. If you're serious about breaking through the $5 million wall, grab your ticket for 500 off at owned and operated.com with code breaking early bird or click the link below. There was a company we looked at. I think I've even told you this story, like on the show. I've told this again. I've told this story on the show so many times, but this is the first time it's like actually applicable. Okay. So I was looking at this business and this was like three or four years ago. We didn't end up buying it. Apex bought it. And I'm still a little salty but hurt about it, to be honest. And because it was a good. Like, it's a plumbing only 5 million. You know, it's a nice.

[Sam Preston]

It was perfect.

[John Wilson]

It was very nice. So we unpack there. We unpack their. Their marketing spend. Yeah. I've told the story as a part of the series, and they spent a perfect 10% on marketing. And I get really excited when I see a company that's for sale, that's spending real money in marketing, because that tells you a lot. Like, hey, if they're spending real money, they have distributable free cash flow. They can reinvest. They're trying to grow. Like, the business is probably pretty healthy. If they're investing 10% into marketing versus, like, 2. You're like, okay, why are you. Why are you just investing, too? What's wrong? Yeah, but they're doing 10%, so $500,000. Yeah. And out of that $500,000, somewhere between 2 and 300,000 was billboards.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Which. That's 20 grand a month for a $5 million business. Yeah. And revenue wasn't shrinking, but it was sort of, like, flat. Like, they didn't. It wasn't moving the way we want. And I'm looking at this two to $300,000, which is a ton of money. That's 20 grand a month. But, like, it wasn't moving the business forward.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And I think that's. That's where I. It's a perfect example of, like, that's a lot of money. It wasn't enough to move the business forward. It was all of their branding budget, and they weren't doing TV or radio to, like, combine it. Combine it. And I think that you have to do, like, billboards isn't the thing. Billboards is a part of the thing.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And I think that's the biggest mistake people make is they try to get in way too early in billboards. They like having a billboard. There's like, an ego thing there. Like, I saw my name.

[Sam Preston]

Kind of cool. It's kind of cool.

[John Wilson]

Hey, man, I saw your billboard. Yeah. Things must be going well.

[Sam Preston]

Family is very proud of you.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. Your family is very proud. Meanwhile, like, you have no calls on the board.

[Sam Preston]

But their acceptance is worth it. So that's.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, but their acceptance is worth more than money. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

That's all I ever wanted.

[John Wilson]

My mom is proud of me. I have a billboard on 80. Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

Okay. So, like, I mean, billboards, I. I feel like one of the things that you have to go into billboards is you have to make it memorable, and it has to be easy. Like your guy with the. The one sure. Eyebrow up. I like funny billboards. Those are the ones the lose 50 pounds a day, donate your couch to.

[John Wilson]

That's a good one.

[Sam Preston]

What's it called?

[John Wilson]

We've done intentional typos.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

People love correcting our typos, but it

[Sam Preston]

has to actually pull back to your brand. Yes, I know. There's a billboard right outside my house and it's the. If you know, you know. But just the acronyms.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

I don't know what it's for.

[John Wilson]

Oh, sure.

[Sam Preston]

And so, like, I know that billboard. I'm remembering it because it's memorable. But like, I'm not tying that back to. Oh, okay. Now I can dough my. My couch or the Jeff Cook who's my real estate agent.

[John Wilson]

Right.

[Sam Preston]

Like, yeah. You know that that's where you have to make sure that it ties back to your brand and is memorable. But if it's not funny, I like you. I just don't think there's a bunch of injury lawyers.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

But like Scream and AEM is my guy apparently that I'm going to be reaching out to.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, that's a good one.

[Sam Preston]

So, yeah, I think it has to be memorable. Has to be pulled back into your brand.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

And then like you're saying you have to not just billboards, you have to go other places. I assume is what the strategy is.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, yeah. And I think, like having a strategy. We like putting billboards in specific areas. And I like, I don't like getting too caught up in the messaging. I think you're right. Like, it should just be funny. And like, that's interesting enough. Right. I think that some people, including us, like we've done over the years, like, here's a coupon or here's a. Like, none of that matters. Like, it doesn't really. Like, nobody cares. They. But the name is helpful.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And have like being remembered and it makes it a little bit easier to measure along with over the Top, which is like Hulu or whatever. If you do it in a market that you haven't done a ton of shit in. Yeah. So like, if you go find a zip code that you wish you were more in and you're not doing a ton of work there. Yeah. Like, hey, over the top streaming. So like YouTube, Hulu, Roku, whatever. But like, you know, you can just isolate that zip code plus a couple billboards and then like, watch as work expands inside that zip code. And I feel like that's a really great use case for smaller companies.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

But that's like the strategy is going into it with like, what do I hope to get out of this? And then how do I measure whatever I hope to get out of this.

[Sam Preston]

Well, that's actually what I was going to ask you next is like how are we tracking this? Because if it's a phone number, unique phone number on there.

[John Wilson]

Right.

[Sam Preston]

Like no one's. Or you should not be driving and testing and typing the phone. Like, yeah, I need a plumber.

[John Wilson]

Right? Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

Or like even a QR code that's really hard to track. I feel like it's similar to the way, you know, as an agency we track podcasts.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

Like, people see me on the podcast, they'll come in and they'll tell us in person. Oh, yeah, I've been watching the podcast. But like, was it the podcast that finally got them to the point where like, oh yeah, I want to reach out, or was it that Facebook ad that they saw?

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

And that was like, finally the offer clicked and they reached out.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

But then the podcast is what built the brand for them to even go, oh, yeah, I finally found this offer. I'm ready, let's go.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. Well, I think, like, I'm going to sum up. The question is attribution. So attribution is how do we attribute a lead to a lead source? And attribution is kind of a hairy. It's a hairy game because if all you look at is like surface level data, then attribution will tell you things that's not real. That scenario is a perfect example where, hey, maybe this brand has been introduced by a podcast or billboards or radio or TV or whatever, and then they Google that name and they click on your lsa and attribution went to lsa.

[Sam Preston]

Right.

[John Wilson]

Or ppc. Or it's like it's whatever last click is gets attribution. So it makes branded activity really hard to measure. So you have to try to separate those two. When you're thinking about, hey, is this, is this branded activity driving results? Yeah. You know, if you're just like, hey, I dumped 50 grand a month into brand and all that happened was I got more leads from Google. Well, hey, hey, that actually means it probably fucking worked. Yeah, because people were looking for you more and Google's just taking credit for that last click. Yeah, but like all the top of funnel stuff worked.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

The way we like to measure it is branded search. So that's either branded search or like direct call. Like non paid lead call. We'll have organic calls separate from paid calls on a daily basis to like measure how we're doing. And branded search rises dramatically as during periods of heavy brand investment where people are searching Wilson Plumbing instead of plumber near me or whatever. And you can get a lot of that data off like Google will Just tell you? Yeah. Either Google Analytics or I think there's analytics inside the GBP profile where it tells you, like, what searches did you show up for? And a ton of. It's like, Wilson.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Kind of an overwhelming amount is for Wilson.

[Sam Preston]

Interesting.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. Not like plumber near me. Like, It's. It's like 80% is Wilson, 20% is all the other shit.

[Sam Preston]

Got it, got it. How much do you think of that is. Because, you know, people searching for Wilson could be anything from a current client that's looking for your customer service phone number, or it could be somebody that saw a billboard and now is looking for you. But it also could be, you know, you know, a past client that's looking for new business. So how are you separating that out now? This is not billboards, but how are you separating that from net new clients to past clients who are searching for you?

[John Wilson]

It's hard because what. What? I think we've said this on the show before, but we frequently rebuy our own customers. So, like, we'll get somebody who we bought on LSA two years ago, and we're like, yeah, okay. So we're gonna. We're gonna rehash them and contact them and outbound and SMS and all the things we do every to, like, try to retain that customer. Yeah. And then two years later, we'll, like, that customer will be on Angie's list looking for someone to provide a service to their home. And we bought that freaking lead again. And we're like, are you serious? Like, we just bought you for $80 two years ago.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah, the CAC man.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. And now you're like, you need another 30. Yeah, but it is. It is kind of funny. But we. We do have that level of information. Where did we get all these leads? And yeah, we. We consistently rebuy our own leads. Which, again, makes sense. If somebody, like, if I used a service provider, I don't save their numbers in my fucking phone. So I just go back to Google and retype. I'm pretty sure this was their name. And then I probably click on LSA again. Yeah. And, like, I do the same thing.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah. Yeah, I think it makes sense. And I don't mind rebuying a customer as long as I get the customer.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, we don't. We don't care either. It's sort of like, okay, I don't.

[Sam Preston]

I don't. I wish it was just one.

[John Wilson]

I wish it was one. But, like, it is what it is. But it was very funny. I remember Jesse, like, being like, yeah, so we're actually rebuying a lot of our customers. I was like, oh, my God, it's like a hundred grand a month. Just like buying the same people. That's funny. One of the. One of the big benefits of billboards, which I think people, like, I would assume people like, is it's not digital. And digital is kind of. There's a lot. There's a lot to digital, I think.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah. I mean, specifically, depending on where you're located, you might already be really flooded with digital.

[John Wilson]

Like, how big is the moat? Yeah, you know, I. I wonder that when I see the small companies. So, you know, we bought this business in January and they had a hundred, and I want to say 80 or maybe 200 Google reviews. But like, somewhere in that, you know, in that zone, which I think is a good zone, I think above 100, LSA starts getting productive. Yeah, that's how it used to work. Anyways. I don't know if that's still the number.

[Sam Preston]

It helps.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, but, like, under 100, I feel like LSA is not super productive.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah, no, no, it's still super productive, but the more you get, you have, like, a little bit of an exponential game. I've actually had that a couple times on the podcast where they've heard that specifically said, and they're like, oh, hey, we don't want to do LSA because it's not productive until you get to 100. Yeah, no, it is productive. But, like, yeah, like, you start seeing, you know, you hit that 100, you start seeing a little bit more of a return.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

And backwards, too. Like, if you start getting a bunch of negative reviews, you start to see the reduction of that as well. And so. But yeah, once you hit levels of scale, it definitely. Google's recognizing that.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, I think there's. I. There's a company for sale in Columbus right now, and I was sort of like, going through their. Going through their sim, and I didn't get that far. I do want to get a little bit farther. But Columbus is, I think, an interesting use case for this conversation because Columbus is big. Like, you know, ecos down there. I think they have, like 22,000 Google reviews, and I don't know how many Apex has, but probably like 12 to 14,000. And there's Atlas Butler, and, like, there's some really big businesses in Columbus that have huge review modes.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And like, review mode is really complicated for digital marketing because, like, everything is based off your Google business profile.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Like your lsa, your ppc, like, everything points to Your Google business profile now.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

So I think that's kind of what people like. Well, that say is I need to see if they're buying through LSA because that'd be interesting because they're only like a $2 million or $3 million business. So if they're successfully competing on LSA against that, then that really debunks a lot of the digital problems. But. And they only launched five years ago too. That's the other thing.

[Sam Preston]

I'm bad.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. So like they really moved pretty quick in a highly competitive market.

[Sam Preston]

That's awesome.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. I thought it was good for them. It was really cool. Yeah. I'd love to have them on the show. I think that's, I think that's kind of, that's a hyper competitive market. That's $2 million in four or five years. That's a lot.

[Sam Preston]

That's cool.

[John Wilson]

That's. It's really, it's really interesting. I know. What did they do? I want to talk to this guy. But yeah, I think what people like about billboards is it's analog, it's out of home, it's, you know, non digital. It's the same reason, like direct mail is attractive. It's like, hey, I can control this. I can optimize it. There's a lot I can do. And you know, I have to, I don't have to pay the, the Google gods to get more leads.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Which I feel like a lot, a lot of people are in like the let's get off digital train. Or at least let's diversify from Google, which like I get. But obviously Google gets a ton of our money.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

But like, that's why we launched canvassing. Yeah. Which is, hey, we wanted a scalable source that wasn't just Google.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah. Well, any company that is reliant on a single lead source, you're vulnerable. Is. Yeah. You're putting yourself at risk. Google is changing their algorithm every day.

[John Wilson]

I know, it's crazy. I remember when it used to be

[Sam Preston]

like once a year.

[John Wilson]

Once a year. Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

And we'd all freak out and we'd be like, oh no, this is going to change. This is happening like monthly now.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. It's exhausting.

[Sam Preston]

And so we're having to redo things. We'll get. They'll change something. We have to redo how we put out content and things like that. That's not change for billboards. The game literally forever has been, you know, get billboards up, make them creative. Obviously people are getting better at it. I'm Only going to remember so many billboards in my head. Doesn't matter how creative or good you are at, it's probably limits five maybe. And so, I mean, the only one

[John Wilson]

I remember is the Misney, the injury attorney. But they're, they do a great job. And I also think they, they do a lot. And I think that's such an important piece of the puzzle. I think so, like if I. If you're an H VAC company and you have one or two or five billboards, I don't think that's very much. Unless it's five billboards in like a half a mile. Yeah. Because I think density is a really important part of the. Like, I actually think I saw 15 billboards from Tim Misney on my way to work and I have a 22 minute drive.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

So like, that's a lot. And I think that that's an important part is, you know, if Cleveland's a big market, like population and spread, and if I had one in like over, you know, 40 minutes that way and 30 minutes this way, I think I'd be defeating the purpose. So. Yeah, maybe if you're trying to do billboards, well, pack them as tight as you can. Yeah, yeah. Like five or ten in a zip code. Feels really good to me.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Commutes, I think, you know, you want them to be on commutes. Highways are helpful, but like, there's a lot of commuted roads that aren't a highway.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah. We had this one stretch that is a highway and it's in between, like my city and I'm in Charleston. So Charles is the big city.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

And there are like, I want to say seven or eight billboards in a row within like.

[John Wilson]

Oh, totally.

[Sam Preston]

Not even a mile stretch like half a mile. And so you're going back and each one is for one single company. Bottom all. And it was one sentence. And I remember it was something to the effect of we will do a good job at a profit if we can, at a loss if we have to, no matter what. You'll get good service. Some roofing company.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

No longer there. They've taken them down. So maybe they weren't working as well. But like I very much remembered that.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, that feels pretty good.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

I like, I like that. Or like doubles. You know, I passed a double on the way in where they were on top of each other and they used it for one. One billboard. But I think density is really important. Like on my. On my way to work. God, I piss a lot of billboards on my way to work. There's a. There's an H Vac company and I've never heard of this H Vac company before, which tells me a lot, right? Like, if I haven't heard of you and your billboard is on my way to work, like we are competing. And if I haven't heard of you, like, you're probably not that big. Yeah, like I could be wrong. Maybe, like my attention is elsewhere. But like, you're probably sneaky. Not big enough to have a billboard on my way to work. As Wilson has grown into a regional powerhouse, I have stopped having the time to be able to babysit our Google business profiles. And that's why we started using Big Reputation. It turns my Google business profile into a dependable lead engine without pulling me back into the weeds. Within the first 30 days of using Big Reputation, call volume from our Google business profiles went up nearly 27%. Jobs booked from Google also went up 20%. Without us spending any more time to manage it. It helps us keep our profile active, manages reviews, responds fast, and shows Google a business that's trusted, alive, and worth ranking. You also get real visibility into what is happening. Your review volume, your sentiment trends, which tax locations or teams customers are actually talking about. There's no more guessing. So it's less babysitting, it's more signals to Google, and most importantly, it's more inbound calls. If you want Google working for you without becoming another job, check out BigReputation.

[Sam Preston]

AI I think the thing I dislike about it, and maybe this is just because I'm an ads guy or like, I'm a marketing guy, but like, once you get that billboard up, it's hard to change. You're not just messing around the copy. Because what we do is we put out a piece of copy and we see how the market reacts. And do we get enough clicks?

[John Wilson]

Yes.

[Sam Preston]

No. Okay, cool. Yeah, but like, you get that up there, you're kind of like, yeah. And if it starts working, was it the other things that you're doing, the TV and the radio and the. The Facebook ads, or was it just that copy was so dang good. You know, what is it? So I don't love that part about billboards.

[John Wilson]

I think the, the. I thought of this the way I would sum up, like, I mean, that example again of that, of that small business and I. That's sort of a pain point for me because I know, like, this industry is really hard.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

In the last two years have been really challenging. And it kind of like pains me to watch companies burn Dollars that can't afford to burn those dollars. Yeah. And I think that is my, like, overarching opinion on billboards is I've talked with so many contractors, and I think I probably felt this way at one point, too, where I was on, like, my last leg to get a lead, and I went and signed an advertising agreement of some type in, like, a moment, sort of a. Like a desperation. Like, I need this to happen. I need this lead. I need this to work. And if this doesn't work, I'm kind of fucked.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And I'm sure you've dealt with that, too. Yeah. Where like, this is not strategy. This is desperation.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And I think that's what bugs me so much about the billboard thing and probably why I have such a strong opinion about it is I watch these small contractors that, like, I've never heard of you.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

That probably means you're coming at a point of desperation. Like, this is not strategic for you. Like, you are desperate. You need a lead. You're an H Vac only business at the end of 2025. Like, you are desperate.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And I. It's. It's just, like, painful to watch and, like, you know, that they could do something better with those dollars.

[Sam Preston]

Oh, yeah. Let me ask you this. I mean, I feel like billboards from a lead perspective, although really good. And I know I've had those conversations where they're, like, a $25 million company, and literally all they did was billboards. No, no. Digital. Yeah. And they're, you know, like, I get it. People have done it and have done it. Well. Yeah, absolutely. Crush. But what about for hiring? Like, is that a good, like, tactic to. Because I feel like you're like, your target market to everybody that's there.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

Constantly seeing a chance for them to come be a technician at your company.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

You know, that's already a problem that I've heard from lots of clients, which is, you know, hiring new technicians. So do you feel like that's a good use of those dollars?

[John Wilson]

I think for the right industry. Yeah, I think for the right industry. I think for, like, I don't know that I would run it for, like, plumbing, H Vac, but, like, maybe there's somebody out there. I'd love a comment below if that worked for you, but I think trucking, landscaping, power washing, like, very, like, labor. Not, like, skilled trade, but labor. Yeah. That would feel like that makes a ton of sense. Roofing, maybe I struggle with the skilled trade side of it, but, like, obviously, like, roofers are skilled tradesmen. But like, it's a different level of skilled tradesmen than like a licensed holding, you know, tradesperson. So, yeah, I think for. For the right industry, I think it could be really successful. And like, how big is the business? Yeah, you know, there's a power washing company here locally and they have. They have to hire like 400 people every March because it's a 35 million dollar freaking power washing company. So they have to put 400 people through it. They lose 200 in the first 30 days.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And then they have 200 for the rest of the season and they slowly lose them and then they, you know, do layoffs because it's winter and. And I feel like that is a perfect use case where like they have a large. Like if you start hiring billboards in January, you run them through May. Like it's a perfect use case of sort of a mass hiring.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Billboard. But like, if I need one plumber, I should probably just like use a job board.

[Sam Preston]

Mass hiring terrifies me. Totally off topic and a whole new conversation. Another podcast. But like we hire one at a time, we bring them in, we do lots of training, lots of hand holding until you get to a place where we feel like we can trust you. The idea of just like, oh, hey, we're going to hire more like to 10. Feels like mass hiring. Maybe even five for me. Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Our biggest onboarding classes have probably been like 10.

[Sam Preston]

Really? Yeah. See that?

[John Wilson]

We'll do it.

[Sam Preston]

That, that would stretch me and I love.

[John Wilson]

But like we basically onboard every two weeks. A normal class is two to three people. It's just cohort, cohort, cohort. We've got it machined.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah. Do you have like an actual trainer? Like somebody that. That's their job is to get people up to speed that way?

[John Wilson]

No, we did at one point. It didn't quite work the way we wanted it to, so we have like it. It's sort of just ingrained in our schedules now. So like people have just different sections that they cover and it's a two week program and.

[Sam Preston]

Got it.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. So at any given point there's like five people in onboarding.

[Sam Preston]

Got it.

[John Wilson]

Maybe more. Might even be seven because like now there's other branches. There's always somebody over there too.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah. And you're buying all these companies, so.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

To keep training.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, pretty much.

[Sam Preston]

All right, Sorry. Side tangent over.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. Billboards so non digital. I don't like the desperation factor. That just like hurts me in my soul. Like, I want everyone to win even if I compete against you. I want you to win. And, yeah, it just, like, bugs me, I guess. How to get them to win. I think we talked about that a little bit. Funny.

[Sam Preston]

Funny. Memorable has to tie back to your brand. It can't just be funny. It's gotta, like, funny. And, yeah, it makes sense for the brand.

[John Wilson]

Short message. I Like, I don't think a phone number. I don't think a website. Like, I don't think it matters. I think is like, the funny. The way we try to do it is like the mascot and the message or the name and the message. Yeah. Like, we did some. We did some that were intentionally misspelled, which was kind of funny. We actually, as you can assume that's the most phone calls we got is, hey, did you know? Yeah, we did know. How's your furnace? Yeah, it is kind of funny. People love to correct you. We did. It was like, hey, you're a 10, but your H vac is a 4. So, like, I don't know.

[Sam Preston]

That's good.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, it was good. Like, we got a lot of comments

[Sam Preston]

on that one compliment.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. People liked. They liked that. They thought that was kind of funny. I'm trying to remember what the other. We tend to go just, like, cheeky.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And that has been valuable. Yeah. And as few words as possible. Someone's driving. Right. Someone's moving along.

[Sam Preston]

So I think you can go too cheeky, though. Like, there's one that, like, is a billboard and it says size matters. And it's talking about, like, they're the biggest lawyer practice in the area. And I was like, I don't know if I want my lawyer making dick jokes. Like, I don't know. Like, I feel like maybe I'll try somebody else.

[John Wilson]

So hilarious.

[Sam Preston]

You know, I could see that.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, I could see that. I mean, I remember H Vac. The classic one is, hey, your wife's hot. Let's get your AC checked.

[Sam Preston]

And that's good. That's good.

[John Wilson]

I know.

[Sam Preston]

It's a good one.

[John Wilson]

I mean, it's been used and abused over the years.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Like, hey, man, your wife is hot. Let's get that AC checked. But. But, yeah, I agree. Like, is that too cheeky? Is that too whatever? Like, we've done some. We had a billboard once. I don't. I don't even remember what the message was. I was surprised. It was, like, slightly cheeky.

[Sam Preston]

Right.

[John Wilson]

And this is the other thing with billboards, like, potentially a con is the public will contact you if they don't like it. So it.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

So we've. Like, that one's a good example. Like, the dick joke from the attorney. Like, somebody called that attorney. Be like, I don't like this. So we. We had some billboard, and it was not even that bad. Like, we had way worse ones out there.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And they called up and they're like, hey, Ralph, which is my grandfather, you know, my family, my founder, he's like, ralph would not have liked this. And I was like, that was my grandfather. You did not know. Like, Ralph probably would have liked this. This is hilarious.

[Sam Preston]

You didn't know.

[John Wilson]

Like, you did not know this guy. But it was kind of funny. People were like, hey, not in my town. Ralph did not. Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

Well, maybe that is the strategy. You are cheeky enough to piss people off to where they go to your GMB and they make a phone call.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

They grab the directions. They come to your office. They can sit in front of you and say, yeah, your grandfather would have been disappointed.

[John Wilson]

Rolling over.

[Sam Preston]

Okay. Right now, this is the new strategy.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

Somebody please test this and let us know how that goes for you.

[John Wilson]

Well, like, we will bring you on the show. Yeah, we will. Yeah. Well, we put out the. The yard sign episode. And, like, Isaac, like, he went way too hard in, like, one zip code. And I think he put, like. He's like, yeah, dude, we got 500 signs. And we put all 500 signs in one neighborhood. And I was like, oh, wow.

[Sam Preston]

Okay.

[John Wilson]

Like, he's texting me this as it's happening. I'm like, I don't know if that's a good idea or not, but, like, we'll find out. And like, a couple weeks later, he's on the podcast in person. He's like, dude's a terrible idea. So many people called us, and they were like, you're ruining our neighborhood. And that's the problem with out of home marketing.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Is the court of public opinion has entered your life.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, they'll let you know.

[Sam Preston]

That's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing.

[John Wilson]

But, yeah, the your wife is hot one is a pretty classic.

[Sam Preston]

I love that one.

[John Wilson]

Pretty classic. But, yeah, I think cheeky is the right way to do it. I think that what doesn't seem to work as well. I'd love it if somebody's got, like, data to. To either disprove me or prove me. Like, either way, data would be interesting. What I don't think works as well is very, like, coupon clipper type of billboards. Like, we have. We have a PE firm. It's a group called Bonsky. Locally, but they're owned by sila, and they have these, like, $3,000 furnace billboards, which I'm sure does drive traffic. I don't know if it drives the traffic that you would want, because $3,000 is, like, half of the market. So, like, they're saying, like, hey, we have the best deal in town, which maybe that's good. It also feels like that might not be the clients that you want is people that are wanting the very best deal in town. Like, $3,000 is very low. Very low. Yeah, yeah. So I feel like that's not done well, but maybe someone out there is, like, totally killing it with, like, sort of the coupon clipper style.

[Sam Preston]

I feel like that. With that. The one. The way that's going to work is if somebody is having a conversation with somebody else already and they go, hey, it's gonna be six grand. I'm like, man, I really remembered it was gonna be lower than three grand. Okay, let me go search for that. And maybe that's the mass market value. Like, can you get enough of those to make up that profit percentage that you're not going to be getting? I don't know. That feels low.

[John Wilson]

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, or. Or you go in there and you try to upsell. It's just probably, like, has to be. A core part of the strategy is like, yes, this is the furnace, but, like, add the ac. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or. Or, like, charge.

[Sam Preston]

We literally just hand you it.

[John Wilson]

Good luck. It could be, because I'm sure that, like, I think they run a good business, so I'm sure there's something there that I'm. That I'm missing, but I feel like it adds a barrier when you get out there. Instead of like, oh, you're the funny one. It's. Oh, you're the one that. I thought this was 3,000. Now it's eight. Like, what happened?

[Sam Preston]

Yeah, I feel like billboards, because of the tracking issues. One of the things that's probably missed is whether something is successful or not, or if it's just up.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

Generally speaking, if you see somebody advertising on Google or Facebook, like, you know, they're running it because there's an roi. Otherwise at some point they're going to go, hey, I'm going to turn this off and go something else.

[John Wilson]

Yeah.

[Sam Preston]

Whereas billboards, I feel like, because the attribution is a little bit harder, that people just leave it up thinking it's working, and when it's not, well, it

[John Wilson]

doesn't take much to think it works. And I think this is why people like radio, tv, billboard, like the smaller contractor. The ego component, I think is a pretty important part of the puzzle. Because they'll hear like, hey, I saw your billboard. So in their mind, I think they're like, oh, someone saw my billboard. Yeah, it worked. But like, that's somebody that knows you. They know that you run that company. They commented to you that they saw that billboard. It wasn't like you didn't drive a dollar from that, but like, you did get positive feedback that someone saw that it existed.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And I think. Yeah, I think people do confuse that. Yeah, I think you're right. Because it is hard. And that's the. Almost the only feedback you get. If you're not like, looking at, like, search volume data, the only feedback you get is people commenting to you.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Hey, heard your radio ad.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

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[Sam Preston]

No, I feel like it's good. I mean, like, what size company are you? Like, if I come to you and say, I've got a $1 million plumbing company, I'm putting all my money into billboards, I'm guessing you're going.

[John Wilson]

The problem is I've seen that and that's what I'm like. Stop. Stop it. Stop it right now.

[Sam Preston]

What's that number? What's that threshold? If I said five, are you like, okay?

[John Wilson]

No, like ten. Billboards done well needs to be a part of a branding strategy, and you're not affording a branding strategy till like 20, $25 million. Okay. Like, we talked to, we talked to a PE firm. I think I've talked about this on the show before. Leap partners and they have 19 or 20 brands or something like that. And the smallest brand was like 3 million of revenue and the biggest was 40 or 50 or whatever. And what they consistently found was brand had no meaningful impact until like $20 million which like I've said that on the show for freaking ever. Like I think you can just buy leads up to $20 million. And I think that if you're under 20, like stop being cheeky with it.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Like literally go buy the freaking leads. Just go buy them like they exist. Why are we trying to invent new things like it doesn't matter. Yeah, just go buy the leads. They're out there somewhere. And then once you hit like kind of a little bit of a cap, like 20 is a little bit of a cap for most markets. Yeah. Get invest in a branding. Yeah. But I think under that like you just can't afford to do it that well. Yeah, I don't think. And if you can afford like all you're doing is slowing the company down.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

Like the company that, the five million dollar company that was spending a ton on billboards. Like if they would have spent taking every dollar of that and put it into just leads.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

They would be $10 million in like a year. Like that's a ton of money. Like quarter million dollars a year. Just buying leads is a lot of freaking leads. But they were probably very obsessed about getting off Google. It's like you just need to be in Google. Like you're a $5 million business. Just like go be in Google.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Wilson]

So Yeah, I think 20, 20 is the number. I think under 20 like branding and have a piece of your pie. But like it should be 90% spend on leads, 10% brand.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And I think when you get bigger that mix maybe becomes like a 60 lead, 40 brands. But that's even, that's a bit vulnerable.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

I think like I've talked to a lot of companies that are like the opposite like or 50, 50 like 50 brand, 50 leads. And consistently those are the ones that are complaining about having like oh my board slow.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

And they're a 30 million dollar business and they're spending a load on brand and it's like great. Well like have you maxed out lsa? Like are you buying leads? Like no, we love our brand. I'm like I love your brand for you but like your technicians don't give a when they go home at 1. Yeah. So if anybody's strong opinion on this, I'm just like stop complaining and just go by the leads. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like, go get it. I'm slow. Yeah. Great. How many leads you buying? None. We love our billboards. Throw a rocket, somebody.

[Sam Preston]

Well, if anybody's doing less than $20 million and is having success with billboards or branding, let us know. We want to know in the comments.

[John Wilson]

Love to hear.

[Sam Preston]

Next week, we talk wrapping trucks, so.

[John Wilson]

Oh, God.

[Sam Preston]

Yeah.

[John Wilson]

You.

[Sam Preston]

If you like the strong opinion opinions.

[John Wilson]

Here we go.

[Sam Preston]

Show up next weekend. This will be a really good episode.

[John Wilson]

Yeah, this is good. This is good. All right. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure you, like, comment and submit.