Podcast Summary

Podcast: Owned and Operated – A Plumbing, Electrical, and HVAC Business Growth Podcast
Episode: Stop Losing Money in 2026: The Profit Plan for Higher EBITDA
Date: January 6, 2026
Hosts: John Wilson & Jack Carr

Episode Overview

In this episode, John Wilson and Jack Carr break down their strategic plan for boosting profit and, specifically, growing EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization) in 2026 for their multi-trade (HVAC, plumbing, electrical) home service business. Drawing from operational experience and recent industry shifts, the hosts share actionable insights covering budgeting, operational efficiency, marketing, vendor negotiations, OPEX management, and how to maintain business health in a tougher market. The aim: to help other home service business owners build healthier, more profitable companies in a changing market landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Mindset for 2026: Don’t Lose Money

• The core theme: Shift from chasing top-line growth at all costs to running a tight ship, ensuring sustainable profitability.
  • "Just stop losing. Just don't lose money in 2026 and you're good to go." (A, 01:31)
• Mindset matters: Many successful owners simply “refuse to lose money,” focusing relentlessly on cost control and efficiencies.
  • "It's a mindset, like, I am not going to lose. I'm going to figure out any way possible to cut..." (A, 01:55)

2. EBITDA: It's Not a Light Switch, It’s an On-Ramp

• Improving EBITDA is a gradual, ongoing process – not something that can be flipped overnight.
  • "I always thought that EBITDA was like a light switch, and it turns out it's an on ramp and taking a long time." (B, 02:44)
• 2026 goals: Move from 13% EBITDA to 20%; 10% net profit target is set alongside this.
  • "We're finishing up EBITDA this year at 13 and we want to finish EBITDA at 20 next year." (B, 10:02)

3. Planning for Profit: Data-Driven, Not Vibe-Driven

• Shift in planning philosophy: Move from “vibe-based” budgeting (gut feel) to data-driven budgets tied to call volume, conversion rates, and average ticket values.
  • "Data-driven budgeting was really helpful. ... Whereas we used to just be, here's our vibe." (B, 03:33)
• Detailed planning: Break growth into concrete “attack points,” assigning profit improvements to acquisitions, operational/marketing efficiency, and cost buckets.
  • "We turned it into like seven attack points... gave our leadership team crystal clear guidelines." (B, 08:16)

4. Why 2026 Matters: A Harder Market + Industry Disruption

• The industry is changing fast, with AI transforming back-office roles and operational processes.
  • "We have massive amounts of AI. The industry has changed... from CSRs to dispatch to accounting..." (A, 11:11)
• 2025 was the toughest year for HVAC in nearly a decade (public data supports this).
  • "2025 was a harder year for HVAC than it has been for the last 8 to 10 years." (A, 00:00, 12:01)

5. Key Expense Buckets & How to Attack Them

a. Marketing & Lead Gen Efficiency

• Ruthlessly trim inconsistent or low-ROI marketing channels. Focus spending on strategies that have both high and predictable returns.
  • "We just shut down stuff that was inconsistently performing. ... That was like a 30 to $40,000 a month savings." (B, 24:25, 18:12)
• Track more than just ROI—monitor cancellation rates, demo rates, book rates, and average ticket by channel.
  • "We've basically just added more stuff to it. So what's our book rate, what's our cancel rate, what's our demo rate..." (B, 19:38)
• Real-world example: $70k swings in Facebook ads—good on paper but unreliable in practice, so eliminated.
  • "It is like nothing, nothing, nothing, boom... So that means that it doesn't work." (A, 20:50)

b. OPEX (Operational Expenses)

• Audit and eliminate unused software licenses, redundant tools, and subscriptions—often “money burning in a pile.”
  • "Software licenses is a ridiculous pain point ... That pain point alone is $10 to $12,000 a month." (B, 25:09)
• Build internal tools to replace expensive SaaS/subscriptions; for example, replacing ServiceTitan’s PriceBook Pro with a custom-built spreadsheet.
  • "Another easy one was like price book... That's $7,000 a month, like for a spreadsheet." (B, 26:11)
• Overseas hiring for office functions (dispatch, CSR, AR) can reduce OPEX significantly.
  • "As internal office staff has left... We have not replaced with US citizens... Like just going overseas for the hiring has been huge." (A, 29:07)
• Merchant/credit card fees: renegotiate and even consider passing fees to customers.
  • "Our credit card... we're negotiating our merchant fees. That's 11 or 12,000 a month." (B, 31:31)
  • "We're considering charging for credit cards. ... That would be 30 grand a month of, like, EBITDA change." (B, 31:38)

c. Vendor & Material Cost Controls

• Aggressively negotiate with vendors on pricing, rebates, and contract terms.
  • "We renegotiated Service Titan a year early. ... We've negotiated our phone system a year early." (B, 32:19)
  • "We switched from Verizon to T-Mobile. ... We went from 14 to 4 (thousand dollars a month)." (B, 33:05)
• Monitor for billing errors and overcharges—use software to catch them; overbilling is common.
  • "We've been overbilled for water heaters for six months by $100 a unit... $20,000 like cash out of my pocket." (B, 36:24)
  • "Are we running a tight process on bidding materials?... Rebates alone was a $200,000 plus add back." (B, 38:30)
• Push for favorable terms (net 60 or better), not just pricing.
  • "Terms is a big one. ... I don't think I've signed on with a new vendor for under 60-day terms in like five or six years now." (B, 42:14)

d. Operational Efficiencies

• Focus on field operations: reduce windshield/drive time, optimize dispatch, and combine routes when possible.
  • "What's our drive time for the field?... how do you blend dispatching for profits plus number of calls per day?" (B, 31:18)
• Every percentage point matters—the difference between 13% and 20% EBITDA or shaving 2% off materials line can equate to hundreds of thousands in profit.

e. Acquisitions as a Profit Driver

• Not the main focus of this episode, but acquisitions can add several million to EBITDA if done from a position of strength.
  • "We're going to get $2 million of EBITDA from acquisitions." (B, 08:17)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Mindset:
  "It's a mindset...I'm going to reduce all my vendor pricing. I'm going to not lose on this...just figure it out." — Jack (A), 01:55
• On Data-Driven Planning:
  "Data-driven budgeting was really helpful. ... Whereas we used to just be, here's our vibe." — John (B), 03:33
• On AI Disruption:
  "The industry has changed. ... The industry has had a complete flip from csrs to dispatch to accounting..." — Jack (A), 11:11
• On Eliminating Ineffective Marketing:
  "We've started just like shaving off things that aren't as productive or don't feel as productive." — John (B), 17:28
• On Software Pain:
  "Software licenses is a ridiculous pain point ... That pain point alone is $10 to $12,000 a month of just burning money in a pile." — John (B), 25:09

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00] 2025 Recap; market is harder than previous years
• [01:31] "Just don't lose money in 2026..." – mindset advice
• [02:44] "EBITDA’s an on-ramp, not a light switch"
• [03:33] Switching from “vibe-based” to data-driven planning
• [08:16] Assigning EBITDA goals to concrete buckets (“attack points”)
• [10:16] Why focus on profit NOW: AI, market shifts, and tougher industry
• [16:22] How they audit and trim marketing expenses
• [18:12] Savings from eliminating inconsistent lead sources
• [25:09] Software licenses as a hidden OPEX sinkhole
• [29:07] Going overseas for back office roles
• [31:31] Merchant fees as a profit lever
• [32:19] Vendor negotiations and switching providers
• [36:24] Billing errors/overcharges and the need for vigilant vendor management
• [38:30] Negotiating and tracking rebates—massive add-back to profit
• [42:14] The importance of negotiating payment terms
• [43:53] Final recaps on biggest profit drivers and wrap-up

Actionable Takeaways

• Review every major (and minor) expense bucket: marketing, software, materials, vendors, overhead.
• Don’t tolerate “inconsistent winners”; focus only on channels and vendors with a predictable, repeatable ROI.
• Audit for software bloat, unnecessary subscriptions, and legacy spend.
• Re-negotiate all vendor pricing. If you don’t ask, you’ll never get better terms.
• Leverage overseas talent for non-customer-facing roles to maximize OPEX efficiency.
• Treat every year as an opportunity to get healthy and build from a position of financial strength.

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