← Owned and Operated - A Plumbing, Electrical, and HVAC Business Growth Podcast
Owned and Operated - A Plumbing, Electrical, and HVAC Business Growth Podcast
The MOST Overlooked Growth Lever in Home Services
00:30:52
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- [00:00]
A
This is one of the easiest things to do and no one's doing it.
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B
This is one of those foundational things that you need to be doing from, from day one.
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A
What is the life cycle marketing that you're doing to your own customer base? Hey, are we messaging our customers about their upcoming maintenance? Are we following up on estimates?
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B
Like how quickly should I be reaching out to my customers when they request
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A
information, I buy a lead, say we do the job. This is where most home service companies stop. How are we retouching that file?
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B
Well, talk nerdy to me. What is your tech stack?
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A
So. Welcome back to Owned and operated, a top 200 business and entrepreneurship podcast. What we do here is we talk about the home service industry and how to grow your business within it. I'm your host, John Wilson. During the day, I'm the CEO of Wilson, which is a three state plumbing H VAC and electrical contracting business. And for fun, I run this podcast where I talk to my friends about how to build inside the industry. Today I'm rejoined by my good friend Sam Preston, the CEO of Service Scalers for our Clicks to call series. And we're diving into email and sms, which is like an easy channel, like kind of interesting channel. So, Sam, welcome back. Welcome back to the show.
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B
Thanks, John. I went, did a lunch date with my daughter and she gave me this sticker. And so I'm grateful for you.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So I just want to let you
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A
know I'm grateful for you, John dog, I'm grateful for you.
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B
Thanks man.
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A
Today we're talking email and sms and another word for this, which I actually just heard this for as much as I talk about email and sms, I don't know how I didn't hear this, but someone called it Life Cycle Messaging. Maybe, I don't know, like a couple months ago I, and I was looking at an org chart for some PE firm somewhere and I saw someone with the title of Life Cycle Marketing Manager Coordinator, you know, whatever. And you know, I'm sitting there like, what in the fuck is that? And, but it is, and you know, it sort of makes sense. It's, it's communicating with your customers throughout the lifecycle of that customer. Makes sense. So that could be email, that could be sms. It could also be postcards, maybe outbound calling. But like basically what is the Life Cycle marketing that you're doing to your own customer base?
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B
It's the moment that a lead reaches out to how quickly you can text them and message them to once they have booked an appointment, making sure that they have what they're going to need to prep them for the sales rep so technician when they get there that they're more likely to close their jobs and then after that for you to get reviews and stack those reviews so they can get more leads and then obviously returning clients and customers years later upselling them, getting more opportunities. It's a whole thing. It's not a small system.
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A
Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's pretty important. We talk about it a lot in here and the term we use for it is speed to lead. But that's one part of it, maybe that's even like the top part of it. The next couple parts are, are just as important if not more important which is hey, are we messaging our customers about their upcoming maintenance? Are we sending them promotions that we have or reminders? Are we following up on estimates? There's a lot to talk to your customers about and what we have found in the companies that we've bought and sort of looked under the hood. This is one of the easiest things to do and no one's doing it on this. Like everyone's doing it when you're big but like not a lot of people are doing it these small companies. So yeah, we've bought three and we're going on four this year of acquisitions into Wilson and not a single one of them was doing speed to lead or lifecycle marketing to their own customer base. Like not one. So it, it was kind of like low hanging fruit that you almost. The problem is it works so well. You have to be cautious about how you drop it in. Your Google business profiles are either printing money or they're losing it. And that's where big reputation comes in. Big reputation turns your GBP into a true lead machine without adding more work to your plate. It runs in the background with automated posting, review generation and, and fast responses so that your reputation compounds over time. And this is huge. If you're multi location they make it dead simple to manage and scale your reputation across every branch so every location shows up and wins in the map pack. I'm actually using Big reputation right now as I grow and scale my newest acquisitions. Plus you get real insight into what's actually happening. You get to spot gaps with location, health monitoring, track reviews and sentiment and see which zip codes you're winning and which ones you're losing. Better insights, stronger trust, more calls from an asset you already own. Go check it out at bigreputation. AI/oao.
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B
Yeah. Or, or they think they're doing it.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But then when you Ask them, oh, do you do speed the lead? Yeah, I do speed the lead. You know, like, great. How quickly are you getting back to your customers? First 15 minutes after they reach out. Like that. That. That's. That's way too long.
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A
What you think it is?
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B
Yeah, that sounds fast. It is not. Let's ask that question, John. Like what? What do you mean? Like, how quickly should I be reaching out to my customers when they request information about our services?
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A
I think ours is like 10 seconds or something.
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B
It should be under 15 seconds. Otherwise, it's too long.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think with Life Cycle, I think the way to think about this, I buy. I buy a lead. I go buy Sam Preston's. He wants to. I don't. You want to clean your drain or something? So Sam gets on. He gets on the Googles or whatever, and I purchase his contact information or I purchase that lead. So he calls me, like, whatever happened, I get Sam's information. I get his name, I guess number, I guess Addie. And we go out there. He books the call with us. We go out, we visit his home. We do the job. We don't do the job. Let's say we do the job. This is like, this is where most home service companies stop. And so speed. And that's why I think, like, yes, speed delay is a part of this. But, like, it's really, like, there's a lot more to it. Because in that scenario, I paid 30 to 80 bucks for your name, address, phone number, and email. Like, that's kind of a lot of freaking money. Like, if it's 30 bucks, like, dude, that's like three chipotle bowls. Like, that's dinner. That's three dinners. So what. What this helps you do is it helps you to get the most out of the customer list that you bought. Like, customers cost money to get them into your database. Like, you're spending money. Sometimes it's. Sometimes it's like organic through a referral, but, like, it costs money. So that's how we like to think about it. If I add 1500 new customer files in a month or 2000, and that's, I think, our rough numbers, like 1500 to 2000 new customer files a month that cost me, I don't know, 70 grand to get those new customer files are how. How are we retouching that file? Are we going to email them? Are we going to talk about promotions? How can we make sure? Like, hey, this one job wasn't the last time that I go out to Sam's place. Can we Talk about our other services. Can we be like, hey, I know you called us for drains but we also have electric, you know, boogie woogie woogie. Can we come out and look at your whatever. So it gets the most out of that 30 to 80 investment and helps you drive more return through your customer list.
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B
You also don't know when that customer is actually going to buy and when it's going to buy from you. Again. We just had our H Vac replaced two years ago.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And I remember we went with the affordable option and it was not a good experience. And now my wife has the other person like she's like she's had that conversation with me. Like next time if we ever need this again, like this is the person we're calling because they did such a good job and guess what, I'm moving into a new house so I might have to do this whole, whole thing again. And we have the person that we were going to go with because they did such a good job and they're going to be the more expensive one. So I mean and that's just my own personal experience but like this happens all the time.
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A
Yeah.
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B
With clients that are you know, remarketing to past lists after a certain amount of time because you can upload that audience into Google Ads or Meta and just target that audience after five years and then just keep working that you can also hire SDR to call out to that list. I mean there's so many more things that you can do with it. It's not just wasted spend if you didn't close it.
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A
Yeah, this was one of our, I think that this discipline is what takes a company from 11, 12% ad spend seven like how dialed in is your business on farming their own fields? Like if you've got a hundred thousand customers in your database, how much revenue are you driving per customer in your database and how frequently with the first year that we started doing this and like let's talk about all the different things that are in this because it is definitely email and sms which were the first ones? Outbound calling postcards to your existing customers. Some people do gifts but those are probably the four is email, sms, outbound calling and postcards. Those are the ones I see the most often of. Like hey we're, we're spending time, energy or dollars to re reactivate a customer. The line that people use is it's cheaper, it's cheaper to reacquire customer than acquire a new customer. Like we, I used to say like why would I spend a dollar to Send a postcard to this guy. Like, he's already my customer. And it's like, no, the dude bought a job for me one time. Like we're sending a postcard so he buys many more of them, which is, yeah, easy. Yeah, totally, totally worth it. Totally easy decision. So. But the first year that we did this, we started with SMS and outbound calling and the business grew 50% that year, like 48% that year. And it was back in 2024, like, it just like freaking popped from adding this discipline. We, we had bought all these companies and we're like looking at this database and it was like 110,000 customer lines. And we're just like, this is a lot of customers. Like, this is kind of crazy. And, and Google was struggling. Like that was, you know, LSA was starting to get weird. So we're like, dude, we've got to be just. You gotta be able to just call them and get appointments booked. And turns out that's exactly what you could do. You can just call them and get appointments booked. And anyways, it was humongous for us as an organization and it diversified our lead flow channels. It helped fill the board every single day. Like now I think we do a thousand outbound calls a day. We probably do 10,000 outbound texts a day. I don't know how many emails. But it is an everyday part of our business now. We have turned our lifecycle marketing into a machine. Is this like, how are you seeing this in clients showing up? Are people ignoring this? Do you know anyone that's amazing at it?
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B
Yeah, I know a couple of people that are really good at it. And so I always like to brag on my, my, my buddy in Dallas, John Rivera, he's got an attic insulation company, which I think is just the wildest company. Like to be a big company, like who buys attic insulation. But man, he just does such a good job and is growing. And the one thing that I thought he always did such a good job at is hiring and managing his sales team and how often he pushes to reaching out to his clients. Like someone reaches out, he's responding within 60 seconds and then they're touching them for like the next 15 days, three to five times a day. And again, like, this is not, you know, as big of a need as something like H vac or plumbing. It's just addict stuff.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And, but like, so he touched point them a lot. And man, does he. He is so good at getting leads out of sources that a lot of people like a lot of People struggle with meta and I think one of the reasons why they struggle is because you get a bunch of bad leads and they don't know how to handle that. They don't know how to reach out quickly. They don't know how to retouch point well, they don't know how to over the next two to three weeks.
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A
Yeah, yeah, right.
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B
They don't know how to nurture it. But he does it. He crushes it on meta, he crushes it on Google. And so, yeah, like I, he does a really good job.
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A
I would say, like most you nail this discipline. I would say that this is probably one of the most important things you could do in your business to scale. Because when you nail this discipline, every channel becomes accessible. Like, if you don't have a good nurture in life cycle marketing team and strategy and tech stack, you can't canvas because like canvassing leads have high cancellation rate. You can't do home shows because when you leave a home show, you have 400 people to contact. This is the con. This is the strategy to contact. This is contacting them. This is part of your life cycle. You drop them and you basically drop them in the machine and it like turns out stuff over different channels and pops you lead and then it turns that one job into many more jobs through the same customer. But this opens up like, yeah, to your point. It opens up windows and opens up doors. You know, hey, we're good at this, so I know we can do meta. We're good at this, so I know I can do lead aggregators because we kill it at this. Yeah, this is like foundational marketing is your life cycle. Like, how do you communicate to your new customers? How do you communicate to people that called but never booked? How do you communicate once they booked but didn't sell the job and then how do you communicate when they sold the job? And like all those different audiences are, are their own thing.
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B
100 and you're, you're so right in the sense that it's the thing that's going to allow you to scale. And the best part about it is it's not a set it and forget it, but it's pretty close. Like, it's not like you are reinventing something on a monthly basis. You are setting it up and you are watching how the data goes and then every once in a while you're making changes to making adjustments. But it's basically set up.
- [15:33]
A
And so it is for us. I mean, this is a, just a daily. When we first came up with this Sort of concept. The sign is still like, I bought the sign and put it on the front of the marketing office. And it was the endless machine of endlessness. Because that's how I see this is, this is foundational. This is if you get this right, like your spend goes from 12 to 7%, you get higher ROI on your marketing. Like your business can scale. It reduces the peaks and valleys of leads. Like this is found. This is a foundational part of your business is communicating with your customers in some ways. But you're right, it, it is just a machine now. Sometimes it takes greater effort. Like if it's especially slow from your paid lead channels, sometimes you need to outbound more, sometimes you need to send a couple extra promos. And our ins, our director of inside ops does an incredible job working with our director marketing to like push this out if there is like a needed change. But for the most part, the sms, you set up the audience, you set up the script, you let it run the email. You gotta write an email once a month or twice a month or whatever. But like not that complicated. Outbound calling. Did you hit your number? Like it. It's just. Yeah, it's a machine.
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B
It is. And we service scalers, we don't have that as an offering. But if there is somebody out there that does this for their clients, you should reach out to me. Would love to make an intro to some of our clients that would take advantage of that. But yeah, like my assumption is that you are setting this up and unless it breaks or something like you just start seeing the appointments, not getting your appointments rate goes from 80%, 90% to 50 or 40. Like at that point we get in there and go, all right, what's going on? But it's pretty much set it and let it run.
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A
Google keeps getting more expensive and affiliate leads are getting worse. And somehow you're paying more for, for fewer, lower quality leads. And that's pretty much the game right now. So here's something that most operators are missing. Yelp. I know what you're thinking, but Yelp is way more than just a restaurant rating app. Last year, over 125 million home service leads were generated on yelp. And almost 50 million homeowners are searching there every single month. Here's the real kicker though. Their data powers answers across ChatGPT, Google AI, Apple Maps and Alexa. Basically, everywhere people are searching before they even know your company name. So instead of fighting over the same expensive Google clicks, you're showing up where customers are actually discovering and deciding who to hire one company, few service out in the Bay Area. H vac, plumbing, electrical, does 20 million a year from Yelp alone. They're closing 75% of their Yelp leads and about 70% of their, their entire customer base comes from the platform. So if you're serious about leveling up your legion, go to business.yelp.com owned and operated and book a call. Yeah, there's some of it's pretty high touch manual, some of it's automated. So we use, we use Avoca for their, like they have a nurture campaign and like we used to go set, you go set up an audience like hey customers that I did H vac tune up for 12 months ago or water heaters 10 years and older, whatever. And it basically picks this audience and it sends a message every day. So you might have like micro audiences, you know, you might only have an audience like 10 year older water heaters. I might only send 50 texts a day. Whereas like overdue tune ups might be 200 or 500 or whatever. So each audience size is different. But yeah, you go in and you set it up and you get it done. Now that's like for the initial contact. So like yeah, that's who we're using right now is Evoka's got like a good speed to lead, but then they also have a good like nurture and audience building. So we're a big fan of that. But a lot of it is just manual too. Like you gotta call somebody. Now there are AI, AI outbounders, but we're still manual manually calling, you gotta call them or you have to interface with that lead. Once it responds like you, there's still a manual input. But yeah, overwhelmingly the technology is probably the most important piece. When we bought these three businesses this year, I mean it takes like a month. This is actually probably one of the longest things to integrate into a new acquisition for us is the speed, delete and nurture campaign. Like this sort of life cycle marketing strategy because it, you have to get approved through tcpa, you have to get your phone number approved to text customers and like you have to go through this whole like rigmarole. So it just takes a long, it just takes a long time, which is kind of annoying. That's no vendor's fault. That's just like the government but. But yeah, it's, it takes the longest and it's one of the most frustrating because it's so powerful when it's done. You can turn on almost any lead channel like and just everything works. Like every lead Channel in any market is going to suddenly start working better because you have a speed to lead and a nurture campaign just like automatic. And then you also can just tag their existing customers and start sending promos and. Yeah, very powerful. Very, very powerful.
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B
Well talk nerdy to me. What is your tech stack?
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A
So yeah our. So it touches three teams. I'll talk tech and then I'll talk team. Yeah. So the tech stack is Evoca for like speed, delete and nurturing and it hooks up onto our service titan and then we, I actually don't know which side we build the audience on. Marketing handles that. I think we do it on the Evoca side. So they pull the data that we want for aged equipment or whatever the problem is and then they start automatically smsing, emailing every day. So it's. Evoca and service titan are really the two most important pieces of the puzzle. I know Avoca goes through Twilio or something for their numbers so I guess I can include that in the tech stack. So it's pretty simple. Like honestly it's two softwares. It used to be much more complicated. We used to have to use three or four softwares to achieve the same goal. But over the winter we were able to consolidate it down to one which that was huge for us.
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B
That's awesome.
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A
So yeah like that basically runs with most of it mailchimp for email but like you can use anything. Honestly, mailchimp is like probably one of the more expensive ones. I think we've just been on it for a while. The teams. It touches, it touches canvassing, team, call center obviously marketing. Marketing runs most of the campaign. Like they build the campaign and then like set up the automations. Call center deals with the interfacing to the customer and like handling that and then canvassing is really. They've become a superpower with the nurturing and speed to lead because we almost treat if it's too like if the weather's too weird or whatever. That team, just because of like who they are as individuals, they're very lead focused. Like we got to hit the pavement, you know, go drum up some leads. So we've actually started using people on that team as escalation inside our nurture or speed to lead campaigns because they're so obsessed with getting the lead, they do an incredible job. So they just come in and like hey, here's the people that we think these leads are high value because of the their level of interest or urgency or whatever. So they just go attack those leads for the day and that has become one of our highest roi like channels is, is two people doing escalations or like outbound calling very specific high value files inside our customer list. But yeah, so that's the tech stack, that's the team. It's pretty, it's pretty simple to be honest. It's pretty simple, but it took us like three and a half years to get it to be as valuable as it is to us today. Yeah, I mean today it's probably like 40% of our revenue comes from this.
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B
Do you have any like a use case or a study or what is it called? Like a moment where you like implement it, install the results of it.
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A
When we first launched it, it was unbelievable. I think most home service companies can relate to this. It feels like leads can feel very like peak and valley where like, dude, we're so busy and then we're, we're dead. And you're like checking to see if the phone's working. Like, like what happened, what we found is it. I like to think that this raises your floor. So if, if my ceiling is 10 leads and that's like, that's my capacity for the day. That's however many guys I can run. And if I don't have this nurture life cycle marketing discipline built into the business, then I need to go buy all 10. Yeah, if you can re nurture your customer base, your floor might go up three or four. So you only need to buy six to seven. And that's how you end up reducing marketing spend so much. And is your board 30% of your board, which is roughly what happens for us. 30% of your board gets filled automatically every day. Maybe not automatically like we outbound call, we mess it like it's at contact sport. But we're not buying those leads off Google, meta, thumbtack, whatever. Like there are customer base that we've already purchased that contact and we're just recycling it. Yeah, I think like roughly 30%. And the first year we did it, we grew 45 or 50 somewhere in that range. Yeah. And like I think marketing budget was the same. I think we spent 650 the year before and the next in that year we spent 700 and we still just absolutely popped.
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B
I like that.
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A
Yeah. So this discipline, to like summarize this discipline is probably one of the most important foundational things you can put inside your business. Because when you do this, it allows for success in a lot of other ways. Lead channels become easier. You can reactivate customers that you acquired. If you want to launch a new service, like If I went and wanted to launch appliance repair tomorrow, I just like drop it in this machine and we'd have a $5 million appliance repair business in like a year.
- [26:02]
B
And this is the thing we talk about where people come to me all the time saying that they have a lead problem and they normally don't have. Sometimes they have a lead problem, sometimes they have an appointment problem, and sometimes they have a sales problem. And we generally want to fix those things in that order. Sales appointment, then marketing leads. And so this is the bucket of appointments. This is how you go from I have a 50% appointments booked rate to I've got an 80 or 90% appointment booked rate. And that's what we have to try to get to.
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A
What are the thoughts you have on Lifecycle marketing?
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B
I mean, I would say, like, unlike other channels, this is something that everyone should be doing. You know, like some channels you don't wait till you get big enough and you can go hire that, you know, director of canvassing or you know, like before you, you know, branch yourself too thin into a bunch of different marketing channels. This is one of those things from like day one, you should be trying to figure out how you can get speedily done, how you can be communicating to your clients or prospects often, like even if you are the truck in the truck. Right? Yeah, like, this is, go get this figured out and then that'll help you scale everything else out. So yeah, this is one of those foundational things that you need to be doing from, from day one.
- [27:19]
A
I pretty much agree. I think, you know, we, we bought a business in January, was a million half dollar a year business. We added this in, it took about a month and I mean, immediate improvement. We were able to hire two new technicians on the back of adding this small company. Right. Like, so I, I agree with you. I think like as early as you can do this, add this in, obviously it's going to grow over time. You're going to add up on calling. You're going to add like, you're going to add things that require payroll. But like, you can go do this service for not a ton of money and it will move the business forward. And I'm just, I'm always so shocked when I see like $5 million businesses that don't have this. Because to me this is like, this is foundational. Like, this is how you go from 5 to 10 in like a year. And like, it won't feel that hard. Like you just sort of put, put it in like speed to lead Nurture your marketing spend goes down, you can then choose to re. Like re. Push it back up if you want and drive brand or whatever you want to do. But like this is, I agree with you. This is like just the right decision. Yeah. It's, it's becoming. We're starting to work on this before acquisitions now because we keep going into deals and not finding it. And again, like my naive self, I've been talking about this for years on this show. So when I, when I, like when I walk into these companies, I'm like, well, how do you not.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Have like this is one of the most important things you could do. Like whatever you're doing today probably doesn't matter. You should just go do this. So it's always shocking to me when I walk in and like every. No one has this and it's like not, it's not like it's like 20 grand a month. It's like probably like a thousand or two thousand or something even cheaper than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Really crazy. So I think go do it.
- [29:14]
B
Set up for fairly cheap.
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A
Yeah.
- [29:17]
B
And then obviously a scale. Once you get bigger, that's when it starts getting more expensive. But I'd be surprised if you weren't spending a couple hundred dollars a month and at least having some of this stuff set up.
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A
Yeah, yeah. I know for us like at this point all of it's probably like 10:12, but it's like it's a lot of our business.
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B
Well, I guess it depends on like, I know you, you guys are using Avoca. If you're using that, like some of those AI call centers to. As part of the tech stack. Yeah. I think that it can get a little bit more expensive. Yeah, I was just.
- [29:52]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [29:54]
B
And so you may not be ready for a system that good yet, but like if you're smaller, you can get SMS and email set up at the very least. Yeah. Fairly cheaply.
- [30:06]
A
I agree. Go do it today. Any of the thoughts.
- [30:09]
B
Get it, get it. Go do it. What are you waiting on?
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A
Pretty much like, stop. Don't be the guy that I look inside your business and I wonder why the hell this thing isn't done. Because it's just not that complicated and it's also not that expensive. But it's very. This is like highly urgent, highly important. So like that's the quadrant this is in you Go do it.
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B
Yeah. What do you want? No, no invitation. Here's your invite. Go get it.
- [30:33]
A
If you're waiting for a sign, this is it.
- [30:38]
B
We're gonna put a billboard up just
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A
to let you know.
- [30:41]
B
So when you drive by, go freaking get this done.
- [30:45]
A
If you like what you heard, make sure you keep tuning in. Hit that like button, hit that sub button, and you'll see us next week.