The Ultimate Home Service Trivia Show (What Homeowners Really Think)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Owned and Operated

Episode: "The Ultimate Home Service Trivia Show (What Homeowners Really Think)"

Date: November 25, 2025
Host: John Wilson
Guests: Brandon Nyro & Zach Dearing (Mantle)

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Overview

This special episode transforms the "Owned and Operated" podcast into a fast-paced, trivia-style game show. Host John Wilson faces off against his partner Brandon Nyro, with Zach Dearing from Mantle serving as moderator, quizmaster, and data expert. Using insights from Mantle’s fresh annual survey of 500+ U.S. homeowners, the group debates what homeowners really think about contractors, buying habits, pricing, trust, discovery channels, and much more. They reveal key surprises and bust some industry myths along the way—all with plenty of laughs and friendly competition.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How Many Contractors Do Homeowners Reach Out To?

• Average Number Contacted: 2.1 contractors per project (rounded to 2).
• Millennials reach out to 0.2 more than non-millennials, but still surprisingly close to average.
• Host John Wilson:

  "Who reaches out to four? Who has time for that?" [02:23]

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2. Quote Recipients vs. Follow-Up Reality

• Only 2.5% of homeowners reaching out to contractors never receive a quote.
  • Industry perception is that many more are lost due to poor follow-up, but data suggests otherwise.

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3. Where Do Homeowners Find Contractors?

• Top Channels (All Homeowners):

  • Google/Google Maps: 39%
  • Previously Used Contractor: 33-34%
  • Recommendations (Friends, Family, Neighbors): 25%
  • AI Search (ChatGPT, Perplexity, etc.): 3%

• Generational Notes:

  • Millennials: 62% use Google, 4.6% try AI, 3.45% discover at big box stores.
  • Boomers: 23% use Google, 0% big box stores, highly favor previous contractors.

• Notable Quote (John Wilson, on Google):

  "I'm surprised how close that is. I would have thought like three to four for millennials. Just because they're like digitally native." [05:45]

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4. The State of AI Search

• Only 3% of verified 2025 homeowner shoppers used AI search to find a contractor.
• Discussion: AI is getting fatigue and distrust, with most homeowners preferring Google or personal recommendations.
• Memorable Moment:

  "The amount we talk about AI search and how it's changing everything... for a millennial, it's about as popular as walking into Home Depot." — Zach Dearing [46:46]

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5. The Myth of Big Box Store Discovery

• 1% of homeowners overall discover their contractor in a big box store.
  • Millennials are slightly more likely (3.45%); boomers 0%.

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6. How Homeowners Assess Contractor Quality

• Top Ways:

  • Looked up online reviews: 52%
  • Relied on prior experience: Next most common
  • Recommendations: Slightly less
  • Saw examples of past work: Only 8%

• Industry puts heavy weight on showing past work or yard signs, but data shows reviews and experience matter far more.

• Quote (John Wilson):

  "I can ask my mom or I can read 5,000 people's opinions... that's enough information to move forward." [16:24]

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7. Pricing Transparency: What Homeowners Find & Want

• Attempted to Research Online Pricing:

  • Overall: 69% tried to look up pricing
  • Millennials: 83%
  • Boomers: 57%

• Clarity of Pricing Found:

  • Very clear: 15%
  • Rough idea: 46%
  • Not clear at all/couldn’t find: Nearly 39%, and 20% couldn't find any at all.

• Quote (John Wilson):

  "Anytime I've looked... it's so, like, 'the tile could be $10 a foot or $200 a foot.' It's like, that wasn't helpful at all." [20:40]

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8. What Matters Most in Contractor Selection?

(Most important to homeowners, as per survey)

• Upfront cost: 31% (the top single factor)

• Reputation: 19%

• System comfort/efficiency: 11%

• Manufacturer/brand: 9%

• Perceived installation quality: 5%

• Note: 69% had a different top priority than upfront cost.

• Quote (John Wilson):

  “Whether or not we want it to be, [price] just is. Everything else we have to teach them.” [22:46]

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9. Most Valued Qualities in Chosen Contractor

• Professional in-home visit: 70%

• Quick and responsive: 49%

• Thorough in explaining options: 39%

• Gave control to customer: 36% (with millennials valuing it more: 44% vs. boomers’ 27%)

• Memorable Exchange:

  "It's going to be communication... quick and responsive. Like who showed up, who called back."
  — John Wilson [28:21]

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10. Trustworthiness

• Felt trustworthy: 58% (as the top quality for the contractor ultimately chosen)
• Trust is less discussed than price but is a key decision driver, especially given lack of pricing transparency and the “unknowns” of home service work.

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11. Extended Warranties: What Will Homeowners Pay?

• Average amount homeowners said they'd pay to extend a 1-year to a 10-year labor warranty: $563

  • Median: $250
  • Responses had a wide range; most contractors guessed much higher.

• Key Insight: There's a big gap between perceived value and typical industry pricing for extended warranties.

• Quote:

  "That is really surprising to me… 500 is kind of a shocking [number]." — John Wilson [43:43]

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12. Notable Surprises & Takeaways

• Most surprising to John: How little value is placed on extending warranties, and just how little homeowners use AI for contractor discovery.
• Most surprising to Brandon: The difference in channel preferences between generations, and how much lower AI/box store use was than expected.
• Industry Mythbusting: Many “standard” sales tactics (yard signs, pushing brand, etc.) have far less real-world influence than contractors believe.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• "Who reaches out to four? Who has time for that?" — John Wilson [02:23]
• "I'm surprised how close that is. I would have thought like three to four for millennials." — John Wilson [05:45]
• "The amount we talk about AI search... for a millennial, it's about as popular as walking into Home Depot." — Zach Dearing [46:46]
• "Anytime I've looked... it's so, like, 'the tile could be $10 a foot or $200 a foot.' It's like, that wasn't helpful at all." — John Wilson [20:40]
• “Whether or not we want it to be, [price] just is. Everything else we have to teach them.” — John Wilson [22:46]
• "It's going to be communication... quick and responsive." — John Wilson [28:21]
• “That is really surprising to me… 500 is kind of a shocking [number].” — John Wilson [43:43]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:07] - How many contractors do homeowners contact?
• [03:38] - How many never receive a quote?
• [06:00] - Most popular channel for finding contractors
• [07:44] - AI search: reality vs. hype
• [13:02] - How do homeowners assess contractor quality?
• [16:44] - Online pricing: who looks, what do they learn?
• [22:03] - What factors matter most (cost, reputation, etc.)?
• [27:42] - What qualities matter most in the chosen contractor?
• [32:01] - Trustworthiness: How important is it?
• [37:36] - Home warranty: how much will people actually pay?
• [44:37] - Recap: "What surprised you most today?"

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, candid, playful competition tone
• Regular, lighthearted jabs between John and Brandon
• Zach as an engaging, neutral moderator
• Lots of real-world, actionable analysis but plenty of humor and humility as industry “best practices” are put to the test.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a must-listen for HVAC, plumbing, or electrical pros interested in real homeowner insights that cut through industry assumptions. The discussion shows just how differently homeowners think versus what most contractors expect—especially around search behavior, price transparency, trust, and decision-making priorities. The “game show” format keeps it entertaining while revealing critical data for those wanting to adapt their sales and marketing for today’s market realities.

Find full survey results: usemantle.com/survey

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Transcript

[A]

Gentlemen, I can assure you that the questions that are being asked today have been rigorously researched and that we've designed a game to really test your mettle.

[B]

This is rigged.

[A]

It is back to John.

[B]

Oh, there you go.

[A]

That is not correct. Damn, there was a lot of squirming on this answer. A lot of thinking. Unfortunately, it didn't matter. It is not so Jen.

[C]

Shit.

[B]

That's interesting. That's a good question.

[A]

What surprised you the most of everything today?

[B]

Welcome back to Owned and Operated. Today we have a special show. It should be a ton of fun, mainly because I'm going to win. Today on the show, I have my partner in crime, Brandon Nyro, and Zach Dearing from Mantle. And what we're going to be doing is we're going to be doing a trivia game show that is Brandon and I basically competing for swag. And we're going to be guessing homeowner responses to things on the contractor experience and a bunch more. Mantle is an AI sales platform that helps contractors delight customers and close deals. So they just started doing an annual homeowner survey where They've surveyed over 500 homeowners all around the US on their experience, why they bought, why they didn't buy, and a bunch more. So we're basically going to use that data and Brandon and I are going to guess at what we think a homeowner wants, and we'll see what happens. And Brandon's going to absolutely lose.

[A]

Gentlemen, I can assure you that the questions that are being asked today have been rigorously researched and that we've designed a game to really test your mettle. The format of this game is we will go one person, then the other person. We will ask them a question. If they get it right, they will receive a point. If they get it wrong, it will go to the other person. The final question we have and a bit of a twist on what the format will be. And ultimately, what are they competing for? They're competing for eternal glory and, of course, this impressive piece of swag. So, gentlemen, we will start with Brandon to a rounded number. How many contractors do homeowners reach out to when they are shopping for a home service?

[C]

Four.

[A]

Four. Okay. Brandon's answer is four is not correct. John, this is your first rounded to a rounded number.

[B]

2.

[A]

John has won the first point. It is 2.1.

[C]

All right, let's go. Nice, nice.

[B]

Who reaches out to four? Who has time for that?

[C]

I don't know, man.

[A]

You know, it's a tough, tough economy out there. People are making sure they get their best deal possible.

[C]

SOP says we have to reach out to at least three.

[B]

So yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's no secret that my office here in Nashville is almost completely empty. So how do I support my team as well as have great growth metrics? Well, the answer is international contractors with quick staffers. So Quick Staffers is a premier staffing agency which will place top tier talent in your business, built by the trades for the trades. So if you need a csr, they'll be placing a CSR that is highly trained in your business, that knows service titan and can book calls effectively. Day 1 Call 1. Affordable, reliable and trained in all of the industry best practices. Quick Staffers can help you cut that overhead, boost conversions and scale your business fast. So don't waste another lead. Visit quickstaffers.com and transform your business today. So now here's the question though. So they reach out to 2.1. And John, this will start with you to a rounded answer. What percentage of homeowners never receive any quotes from any of the contractors they reach out to?

[B]

40.

[A]

40% never receive any quotes from any contractors?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that your final answer?

[B]

That is my final answer.

[A]

Okay, that is not the case. While the number is surprising, it is that, Brandon, this is your first deal. You can get back in the game now. 20, 20%, gentlemen. No points will be awarded. It's 2.5%.

[C]

That's it.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

I mean, think about it. They're reaching out to contractors and they're looking for quotes.

[C]

Honestly, just assume most contractors are horrible at following up.

[B]

Oh, maybe.

[A]

But again, this is why they're reaching out to two. Right? Because one of them ultimately delivers it's received no quotes. We also looked at this by different age ranges, right? We hear a lot about the boomers and about the millennials and whatnot. And so on average, are millennials out to more or less than that? 2.1.

[C]

Oh, that's a 50, 50 shot.

[A]

That is true.

[B]

That is 50, 50 shot.

[C]

I'm going to say less.

[A]

Well, John, it is not less.

[C]

Come on, this is rigged.

[A]

It is. It is more. They reach out to 0.2 more than their non millennial counterparts.

[B]

So I would have guessed more. Regardless. I am surprised that it's that close. Yeah, Millennials, like with the advent of YouTube, I feel like millennials have become a much more like research heavy. Like they're going to look more than a boomer is just like they have their guy.

[C]

I guess I'm thinking of even younger than millennial to like New. New homeowners who just like the intention spans, like time commitment would be so much less.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that's me. Like, I don't have the patience to deal with. Like, it took me. And this is back to the what percentage never receive a quote. It took us like nine months to start our kitchen remodel because I don't have the patience to reach out to a ton of contractors and I didn't get a bunch of quotes.

[A]

I think one of the interesting things about. To your point, Millennials could be doing a ton of research.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Looking on YouTube, reading reviews, searching clot or perplexity, but then only calling a little bit more than what they're.

[B]

I'm really surprised that it's that close. I would have thought like three to four for millennials. Just because they're like digitally native.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, they're gonna reach out to more. They're gonna fire off a million texts through LSA or something. That's interesting. I'm surprised how close that is.

[A]

So next question. I think this will be near and dear to both of Yalls heart. John gets the start. John, I'm gonna read out four potential channels by which a homeowner could find out about a contractor. And your question is, what is the most popular channel? So first, Google. Google search. Google Maps. Second, AI search. Perplexity Claw, ChatGPT. Third, recommendations from friends and neighbors. Fourth, they previously used the contractor across all 500 homeowners. Which one is the most popular overall?

[B]

Previous use.

[A]

Previous use is not correct.

[C]

Damn, Brandon, Does Google Gemini count as an AI or Google?

[A]

Good question. We will not specify.

[C]

I'm gonna say AI.

[A]

It is not AI Search.

[B]

I feel like it was Rex then, because I feel like it was either gonna be previous user recommendations.

[A]

Okay, well, it's actually Google.

[B]

Really?

[C]

I'm a default. I get the point.

[A]

It is Google. Truly. They guessed everything. And eventually Brandon ended up with the point. So Google at 39%. Previously used at 33, 34%.

[B]

I wasn't that far off then.

[A]

Rex at 25%. And to be clear, homeowners could indicate multiple channels. So anyone following along at home. And I'm sure our audience is eagerly, eagerly. Like, wait, wait, wait, hold on. No, no, no hanging chats here. We verified. But now AI search. And this will actually be the next question. How commonly are folks using AI search? We hear a lot about in the news, right? ChatGPT is taking over the world. Oh, boy, Google's better. Watch out like, oh, all the coolest contractors are using AI. Search.

[B]

This is like a percentage, percentage of.

[A]

Homeowners who were verified shoppers in 2025 who used AI search. And I believe. And it will be a percentage, rounded number. It will start with vdog.

[C]

Hmm. I'm gonna second guess. I'm a second guess myself. I'm still with my original gut intention on that one. And say 35%.

[A]

35%. So one in three, Google was at 39%. And your answer is that 35%. That is not correct, John.

[B]

Like 6.

[A]

6%. That is also not correct. The actual answer is 3%.

[B]

Yeah, I felt like it was single digits. That's. I wonder at what point they're using it, like in the discovery process, in the review process. I. I read something maybe like a month or two ago that, like, people were using AI, almost like a recommendation replacement. Like, hey, can you just give me a couple options in Cleveland? And then they were verifying on Google and using that to call. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how when that ever gets tight. I think something that's been interesting with AI over the, like, past couple months is like, one, people are getting, like, AI fatigue. I don't know if that's general public, but definitely like the people in my life, it's like very AI fatigue. And then two, AI distrust because, like, half the time the answers are like made up.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Yeah. So I feel like it almost went through this mass adoption and then like, decent chunk of disadoption on adoption.

[A]

The valley of disillusionment. Very sort of famous chart of new technology adoption. And there's a lot of buzz and everyone tries it and on first couple minutes, like, oh, my gosh. Totally knew that Wilson was legit in the greater Akan area. And then it said that Wilson also did garage doors. Not saying that was actually true, but that's the example. And so I think what's interesting, and this is where we're going to dive a little bit deeper. Baby boomers, specifically, what is their number one channel again? Options, Google AI search recommendations. Previously used contractor.

[B]

On one hand, like, I think it probably would be Google because that was the highest regardless. On the other hand, I don't think you'd be asking the question if it was the same. This is. This reminds me a lot of like, Princess Bride when they're like, deciding which cup has poison in it. It'd be either like, previously used or Google, I guess. Google.

[A]

That is not correct.

[C]

So I'm gonna go with previously used.

[A]

Brandon gets his second point of the day. Previously used. You're welcome. One other just fun fact and I' millennials, 62% said Google.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So they are very much looking at Google. 4.6% said AI search.

[B]

Well, to me, that makes sense. Like, if I just think about generations, like millennials just haven't used contractors yet. So they're still in that discovery. Whereas boomers. Yeah, they have their guy. Like, it's in their phone, you know. So to me, that makes total sense.

[A]

Boomers are at 23%. Right. What would be interesting to look at, like, correlated. We didn't run the data this way, but maybe for, for the next one is look at like, number of homes you've owned. I imagine, yes. It's probably more correlated to number of homes you own than your age, even though they're both related. Last thing, big box store. So one of the questions was, hey, we often hear in contractor world about, oh, the Home Depot program, the Lowe's program, the Costco program. So we asked what percentage heard about it from a big box store.

[B]

Is it your.

[A]

I believe it starts with B dog.

[C]

All right, I'm getting all the off the wall.

[B]

Oh, I just. And I'm going to ask you a point. It's either this or that. Yeah, Come on, get out of here.

[A]

The procedure percentage is interesting, but I will share that at the end. But I'm going to ask you, who is more likely to shop at a big box store? In this case, who's more likely to discover their contractor at a big box store, Millennials or baby boomers?

[C]

I'm going to stereotype for a moment. I feel like millennials would be less willing to stop and talk to somebody than a baby boomer. So I'm going to say baby boomer.

[A]

Okay, well, in this case, John gets a point. It is, in fact, millennials, but here's where the numbers become interesting.

[B]

That's actually, I'm really glad that you got that wrong because I would have definitely guessed that. Well, I feel like baby boomers are very trusting and millennials are like, not.

[C]

I'm just imagine every millennial ever walking past a guy on their phone, not paying attention, like the baby was wanting to stop.

[A]

And you. Yeah. And being in millennials as a millennial, being intimidated by this idea of like, face to face interaction. Be like, wait, we could talk to people in real life. 1% overall say that they discovered it at big box stores.

[B]

1%.

[A]

1%. Baby boomers at a whopping 0.00% and millennials at 3.45%. So millennials are higher than Baby. But the numbers are diminishingly small.

[B]

That must be back to, like, I've only owned one home. I haven't worked with an H vac.

[A]

Sure, I go to Home Depot. Not even real.

[B]

I mean, discovery mode of, like, who is my contractor? I think what a lot of this is confirming for me, like, 70% of our business is repeat business. Like, it's organic and. But also, like, a huge proportion of our customer base is boomers.

[C]

Yeah, he's gotta imagine that the younger generations too. How many go to a big box store versus just order online? Like, do they even have the opportunity to interact in the first place on that stuff? Like, as far as just how low the numbers are in the first place.

[A]

Right, sure. So contractors now in the home, what are the most popular way for homeowners to assess the quality of the contractor? So they're trying to figure out. It's like, I now know of this contractor because I went to Google or I looked him up on Claude or I saw him on next door in the case of a boomer because I previously used it. And now the question is, what is the most popular way to assess quality? There are four choices, and I believe this will start with John. Yeah, John's always very quick to know when it starts with him. When it's Brandon, it's a little wishy washy opportunity.

[C]

I know where we're at.

[A]

I know four choices are looked up online reviews, spoke with family, friends, or neighbors, Saw examples of past work, relied on their own prior experience.

[B]

All right, so reviews, not recommendations, but like neighbors, friends.

[A]

I mean, could be family. Right. It says the language is literally spoke with friends, family, or neighbors. So could be recommendations.

[B]

I guess I'd go reviews like, it feels like it.

[A]

That is correct.

[B]

Let's go. Let's go.

[A]

Brandon, though, I will give you a choice. What do you think is number one?

[B]

2 chance to redeem himself. You said reviews is number one reviews I wrote Rex. But this was like family, neighbors, not trying to help you, but, you know.

[A]

Just trying to lead you astray, actually.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Nice. So I'm gonna say past work then.

[B]

And that's like past work is like pictures.

[A]

Wait, Saw examples of past work or relied on my own prior experience with them.

[C]

Saw examples.

[A]

Okay. Despite me and John's Najeed, you still didn't take them. So it's relied on their prior experience with them. 52% say, looked up online reviews, then relied on prior experience. Then Rex. Friends, family, neighbors. Saw examples of past work. 8%.

[C]

I was just trying to Lean into your stuff, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Fair. Fair. I do think it's interesting, given how much conversation our industry is about, hey, put the yard sign in place.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And yet it's only 8%, which I'd be curious, Brandon, to get your take on it. Is that a reflection that very few people do it, despite us talking about it and it's really like a valuable. Or is it a total waste of time and we should never focus on putting yard sides in?

[C]

I guess. I don't know now. I don't know. That's. That was the old tricks, Right. In landscaping, that's what everybody always used to do. But that's also like, route. Very obvious. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, reviews seem to. Reviews make sense. Like we're in discovery mode. It's like recommendations at scale is how I think of reviews. Like, I can ask my mom or I can read 5,000 people's opinions, the photos of past work or that type of thing. Or like that. That is interesting.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I assume that would be higher just off of, like, the stereotypical value build process.

[B]

Right.

[C]

On the trust but verify. So then you're going through the whole value build experience with a homeowner.

[A]

But realistically, how often do you think that value build process actually happens?

[B]

Fair.

[A]

One of the ways to think about this is looked up reviews online. Largely, the homeowner just has to take an action. Right. Saw examples of past work. They then have to have access to those examples of past work. Right.

[B]

Well, it's quick and easy. Like if someone was looking up us. Wilson Plumbing.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

4,200 reviews on a GMB. 4.8 stars. Like, directionally, that's enough information to move forward.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I. If. If I was the buyer, I don't think I would need much more than that. I'd be like, all right, 4200 people, 4.8 stars. 100 people had a terrible experience, and 4100 had a pretty good one. Like, odds are in my favor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Good one. Like, odds are in my favor. Yeah.

[A]

So we're going to start talking about, you know, topic very invoke online pricing.

[C]

Ooh.

[A]

I know. It's something that Wilson feels strongly about. Ooh. So what percentages of homeowners looked online or attempted to look online for pricing?

[B]

You're up, dog.

[A]

We're going to start now. There was a steal. It's. It's back to John.

[B]

Oh, there you go. This is. Okay, so what percentage have attempted to look up pricing online?

[A]

Yes. And we're going to go overall, and we'll give you within 5 percentage points.

[B]

Like I get rounded within 5?

[A]

Yeah. Or if you give me a specific number and if it's within 5 of the actual answer, you will get the point.

[B]

To me, it has to be like a ridiculous majority.

[A]

Okay. I don't know what number that means. So we will ask for a specific number.

[B]

I was hoping you'd be like, point.

[A]

Did you meet dot, dot? If so, yeah. 80. 80%.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That is not within the five point buffer. Brandon, your opportunity to steal 60%. 60% also not within the five point buffer. So no points will be awarded 69%.

[B]

I mean, to me that makes sense. I would obviously, I guess 80. I would have expected like if we were wrong, I would have thought 90. Because anytime anyone's going to do any project of any type, they're googling price per square foot. They're like reading shit on Angie's, you know, they're. Yeah, yeah. Angie's. You know. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well, let's talk about that and drill in a little bit deeper. He said anytime anybody. So we have numbers for millennials and baby boomers specifically.

[B]

Oh, you're.

[C]

Brandon, this game's rigged.

[A]

We won't ask you which direction. Tired? Lower. That is pretty self evident. Baby boomers, what's the percentage within 5?

[C]

70.

[A]

So you think baby boomers are at average? I think so. Which means that the other demographics would also be at average.

[C]

I guess I'm think like maybe I'm askew on that one. I'm thinking of my parents and then like my age group.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And like they both collectively, I seem at the same how they act once they're on site's different, but I don't know, like, okay, yeah.

[A]

John Steel. Opportunity.

[B]

60.

[A]

57. So John gets it.

[B]

Let's go. So it's nice across that five point mark.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Baby boomers are at 57% overall. 69%. Brandon will give you one more shot. Millennials, I'm striking out here. What, what, what, What? What percentage?

[C]

80% then.

[A]

Okay, Brandon, Cat said 83%. So when you said everybody earlier, I think most everybody our age does look online. Our parents age. It's really only 57%. What's also interesting is if you remember from earlier, they're also commonly using someone they previously used.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or going on a recommendation. Right. So is price as relevant if you've used.

[B]

Do you need me to mark this for you? Keeping score.

[A]

All right, so a lot of people look online for pricing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So there's the intent there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How clear was the pricing that was found online.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

What percentage? Said very clear. And I think it starts with John. Within five points, unfortunately.

[B]

Within five points. All right, so the pricing. The pricing they found was very clear. 9%.

[A]

9% is not within 5% of the actual answer.

[C]

That's even lower than that.

[B]

Like, I have never found pricing to be very.

[C]

I know. I'm going to say 5%, then it's 15%.

[A]

It's slightly more optimistic than either of you expected. So 15% said it was very clear. What percentage do you said it gave them a rough idea.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

There'll be no points awarded, but.

[B]

60. Yeah.

[A]

46. And then the remainder. So nearly as many said not clear at all. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Does that surprise y'? All?

[B]

No. I mean, that's how I feel. I would be in the. Not clear at all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you know, anytime I've looked at. I. I don't even know if I look for pricing online anymore. Just because it's so, like, hey, the tile could be $10 a foot or 200 a foot. It's like, well, that wasn't helpful at all. Like, I have no idea.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Everything's starting out. She's just like, yeah, yeah. Doesn't do me any good.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. I think we've done a good job. Like, our pricing is pretty out there and transparent, but you do have to go through, like, some gyrations. You have to put in some information.

[A]

Yeah. I think what's really interesting is there's clearly intent and the market hasn't yet met that intent.

[B]

Right.

[A]

In the sense of a lot of homeowners are looking. Yeah, they are seeing a lot of things. One of the things we didn't even talk about was the percentage of homeowners that said they just, like, couldn't find pricing at all that they were looking for, and they just couldn't find it at all.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

How much was that?

[A]

I believe it was around 20%.

[B]

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[A]

This question, I feel like, is the most classic homeowner survey question, which is, which factors were most important to you? Upfront costs, reputation of the contractor, system comfort, efficiency or utility bill savings, manufacturer or brand of equipment, and perceived installation quality.

[C]

H. System comfort.

[A]

There was a lot of squirming on this answer. A lot of. A lot of thinking. The brain power devoted to it was very palpable in the room and unfortunately didn't matter. It is not. It is not system comfort.

[B]

I think it's upfront cost. I mean, that's the biggest objection. I wish it wasn't, but it is.

[A]

In fact, upfront cost.

[B]

Yeah. With that said, I think we want the other stuff, because when we walk in the house, if I'm just thinking about the objection, the objection is always, what's the cost? And we have to educate on all the rest of this. Why do you. Why should you care about this manufacturer? People don't think about installation quality. Like, they just don't. Like, maybe 1 in 10 actually brings it up. Savings, maybe system comfort, maybe reputation. Maybe it's like all of that stuff is, like, baked into the sales presentation so that we can sell the job. But the thing that's on the homeowner's mind is the dollars. Whether or not we want it to be just is everything else we have.

[A]

To teach them 31% of the time. Homeowners put it as their number one thing. What is the number two reason?

[B]

I think I'm gonna almost, like, rank it backwards. I think that installation quality is 6. Who knows if I'm right? I think system comfort is like five, because we have to teach people how comfort works. Like, I think manufacture is four. So, yeah, I think savings and efficiency would be second.

[A]

Okay, that is not the case. Brandon Steel Opportunity. This could do a lot for your point.

[C]

You did savings and efficiency.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that was my guess.

[C]

Manufacturer.

[B]

That is not it.

[A]

Sorry. Trainer, carrier. Definitely not.

[B]

Well, do you remember. What was it? The white rod? What was the study where, like, everyone. It was back in the early 2000s, I think Lennox did it, but they did this study where they asked, like, 10, 000 homeowners, what brand of equipment do you have in your basement? And everyone said, White Rogers Honeywell. It was the name of the thermostat. Like, no one has any idea what's in their basement.

[A]

Yeah. Even though, in fairness to Brandon, his proposition was that they really care that it's Honeywell versus that they realize that Honeywell is the manufacturer. Either way, it's not the case. So number two is the reputation of the contractor at 19, which that was.

[B]

My other guess, who's either going to be savings and efficiency or rep. 19%.

[A]

That basically tied is system comfort and energy efficiency at 11%. There's an interesting element of the education involved. Brand of equipment's 9% perceived installation quality is 5%. Again, if it was the number one most important thing, you also could obviously say that reputation of contractor and perceived installation quality, maybe they actually go together.

[C]

Promise. I'm drinking my own training Kool Aid too.

[B]

Good.

[C]

Can't talk upfront price.

[A]

But I think what's interesting is it also means that 69% of the time price is not the number one thing. Think about how much.

[B]

And I think I was looking for clarity. It's upfront cost. Like the whole other bucket of cost.

[A]

Is over time cost, which utility savings would factor into that.

[B]

Utility savings would be right there, but also like loan. So to me, I think what, what I got from that being number one, this is something we're already working on internally is like, does upfront cost actually matter? So we had this big revelation. We're like, is it Pantheon? And it was, hey, do we even need to give discounts? Which we're, We've run discounts. And I was thinking that way because I would like a discount. As a consumer.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I've also never used consumer debt. So for me, that actually impacts my upfront cost, which is very valuable to me. But most people only care about the financing or like the cost. So with 31% caring the most about upfront cost, what that tells me is financing is even more important than I thought because if we can approach this with like, hey, you have no upfront cost.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, because of whatever financing promotion we put together, you're solving 31% of people's problems. Like, that's amazing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It gives you an opportunity to educate on the value adds which are the, you know, buckets farther down. So to me that I'm kind of optimistic that that's the main pain point just because of the changes we're making to our sales process.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I think what's Also interesting is 7 out of 10 times, not the number one concern. Like, how much do we hear in sales trainings about, oh, price objections, price, price, price, price, price. And then of course, in the sales training, it's like, no, it's all about value, value, value, value, value. But what's interesting is for seven out of 10 homeowners, cost, whether upfront cost or, or, or, or whatnot, isn't the thing that's most top of Mind for them. So as an industry, are we hyper fixating problem or a focus area that isn't necessarily for the vast majority of homeowners the case. Okay, so now we're going to think about the contractor that they ultimately chose. So the question is what is the most important quality for the contractor they chose? Quick and responsive. Professional in home visit. Thorough and explaining options. Followed up promptly. Gave me control.

[B]

All right. Responsive professional in home.

[A]

Yep. Professional in home visit. Basically you could think of it as the in home experience.

[B]

All right, thorough what now?

[A]

Thorough and explaining options. Explain the options. Basically gave them control over the decision process and they followed up promptly. Which one they say was the most important?

[B]

The most important. Who's up, Brandon?

[C]

Like shoot straight from the hip.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It's control.

[A]

Control. Okay.

[B]

Really control. I don't think that's it at all. No.

[A]

What do you think it is, John? It is not control.

[B]

It's. It's gonna be communication and it's either gonna be quick follow up or responsive. But my guess is because people only reached out to 2.1, it's gonna be quick and responsive. Like who showed up, who called back so quick and responsive.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

That's wild.

[A]

In home visit.

[B]

That was, that was my second.

[A]

Oh, I mean likely story. Like think about it, think about it. Over the course of a buying journey. Yeah. As you're interacting with contractors, where is the if a good sort of nextar or other best practice group, where are you spending most of your time as a homeowner? 60 minutes to 2 hours with the contractor in the home and then maybe you're doing a little bit before, a little bit after.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's what's really sort of leaving the impression according to 70%. What I think is really interesting.

[B]

What was the percent?

[A]

70%. 70 said that that was one of the reasons they chose the ultimate contractor. With that said, that's wild. Quick and responsive communication. 49%. Which I think one of the things that I imagine you all be asking each other or asking yourselves is how quickly are we responding back to homeowners. And then lastly on this, promptly after the visit. 39%. Right. Follow up promptly. So communication is broken into or follow up ness is broken up into two categories. Control. It honestly surprised me 39%. But here's Daily Double will be worth two points. Brandon, it will go to you. Pressure's on. For, for overall it's 36% like average. 36% of homeowners said that the contractor they chose, what was important to them was the control they gave over the process that was for overall across all, homeowners actually asked the question a slightly different way. I really want to make this a real, real competitive match. Do you think, do millennials or baby boomers value more control? Control?

[C]

I feel like a baby boomer would value control more.

[B]

I think this is just like somebody Googled disk analysis by generation.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Which Generation has more Ds?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. That's what I feel like boomers would. Right? Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. I mean.

[C]

I mean, I've been historically the way this is saying that I'm historically wrong, so I should choose that and then probably choose the other one. But we'll just, you know, continue to stick by that bias and say the.

[B]

Boomers and I. I would like, even without knowing the answer, take millennial purely because millennials don't like the pushy sales. But, like, boomers, like, grew up with it, so I would have taken the opposite, regardless of answer.

[A]

Sean got it. Millennials at 44%. Baby boomers at 27%.

[B]

Millennials have way more, like, dominant personalities.

[C]

Is it dominant or they just don't deal with it in the first place? I didn't.

[B]

Like, I only have my own experience to draw from, and I'm like a high D, so, like, I take immediately control of the sales process. Dude, I get to give myself a point.

[A]

I. I gave yourself two points. It was a daily double. You got two points.

[B]

Man, that vest is gonna look so good on me.

[A]

It's not over till it's over. One more thing that we haven't talked about. Trustworthiness on some visceral level, on some subconscious level, the audience should really be like, oh. It's like, oh, we're talking about trustworthy.

[B]

Everybody fuck around.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So, John, we'll start with you. Percentage within 5 points. How important is trustworthy? Felt trustworthy.

[B]

Felt trustworthy.

[A]

Yes. So affirmatively, for the contractor they chose, what stood out.

[B]

Felt trustworthy within five points.

[A]

Within five points. This will be a daily triple, so it's worth three points. Wow.

[B]

He's giving you a chance to redeem yourself. Oh, I want to say, like. Like 76 or 80. Like, that has to be. I'll say 77. What's yours? I don't want any hints from Zach before you guys.

[A]

Wait, wait, wait. You guys have always got the hints from it. It is not.

[B]

That is not 70.

[A]

It's not 76.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, as. As just like, one. And I'm not sharing any new information. We said the most. The highest thing was professional in home visit at 70%. So that is kind of establishing the ceiling, right?

[C]

60, 60, 58.

[A]

So it's within five points. So you get three points.

[B]

That's wild. It is interesting because after all that, whoops, I gave you an extra one. After all that conversation of, like, reviews and. And so where I was coming from, because I was combining more, so I was like, okay, professional in the home is one measurement of trustworthiness. Another one is, like, responsive. Because, okay, they're trustworthy. They're almost. I almost would have guessed it would be like 90%. Like, who's going to hire someone untrustworthy to work on their home?

[C]

My stereotypes have been off apparently on this one so far. But again, from my viewpoint, I'm looking as like, I look back at the control one. Right. So control is super low on that side of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Control to me is like trustworthiness of like, it feels car salesman.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Where they're just, like, trying to get a deal done. So if there's that many people who don't rank that highly, does that also not play as much of a factor?

[B]

I guess. That's interesting.

[A]

There's also an interesting question of expectations. Is it that the way you've always been sold to in home services is that it isn't super trustworthy and you have so little control that you don't even know to expect that in this sale? One of the interesting things to ask all these homeowners. Right. Would be like, okay, let's imagine it's now not home services, but instead you're buying a car. Right. Something that no one thinks is great. Or buying a new laptop. I think an experience a lot of times. Or buying a new phone, an experience that more commonly is thought as a positive shopping experience. How do those answers change? Like, one of the things that we're asking is really more of their lived experiences, not their desired experience.

[B]

When some of that stuff is a rel. Like, I don't think anybody gives a shit about trust in a laptop experience. Like, who cares?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, like, I don't need to trust the best Buy guy. Like, I came in there to get a MacBook.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's totally fair. It's like, pretty easy to evaluate whether you got the MacBook you want and whether it booted up or not. That's totally fair.

[B]

I wonder what truck. I wonder what that would look like for cars, because I almost don't. I think with the way that cars got priced, like, you don't need to trust anymore. It Became trustless.

[A]

Fair.

[B]

I think it's good.

[A]

Because of the Carvanas of the world or what?

[B]

Yeah, I think so. Like the Teslas. The Carvanas. Like, you can just go on and buy a car now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like you can just order it. You don't have to go see anything. And like you don't have to trust anybody on everything.

[C]

That line too. I can go searching inventory.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Of everything I want before I ever go there. And I know exactly what the MSRP is and I'm not guessing. Versus totally H vac. Like maybe no one.

[B]

Yeah. No one can find the price.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

10. 10% of people or whatever can't find the.

[A]

Yeah. 85% can't find the price.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which means that now it's opaque. You don't really know, you know, trustworthiness in a weird way, to your point. It's like, hey, I have actually my trustworthiness at Best Buy doesn't matter because I know exactly what the price should be and I know I'm going to come in a sealed box and it's going to be an Apple laptop, whatever the case may be. But here, trustworthiness comparatively matters more because I actually have no idea what I'm fundamentally getting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

One of the things that we see a lot in the homeowner research we do, not just the quantitative but also the qualitative, is trust. Right. Is the lack of trust. Homeowners feel the lack of agency and control. And so I think it's something that really animates a lot of the shopping experience. And if you think about the typical home services, it's some guy coming into your home, probably lecturing at you for 10 or 15 minutes in a bunch of technical jargon and then giving you one or two options. Obviously, there's a variety of contractors that are really looking to change that, but that is kind of the status quo. Yeah.

[C]

Seems like the intangibles in my mind.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Like the laptop, you get handed that your furnace, you don't know.

[B]

You don't know if it was good.

[C]

Yeah. You know what's happening with an oil change. Like you go to one of those quick change oils, like you don't really know what's happening. You just have to.

[B]

That was only $9.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, totally. So final question. Brandon B Dog has six, John J. Has eight. This will be similar to Jeopardy. It was part of my preparation.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You will be able to bet as many points as you would like. If you go negative, well, I guess you technically can, so that's fine. You will be able to bet as many points as you would like. You will write down an answer. It will be price is right rules, which means don't go over.

[B]

Don't go over what?

[A]

The. The actual number.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And the question is, what is the average amount homeowners said they would be willing to pay to extend a one year labor warranty on a heating and cooling system to a ten year?

[B]

Oh, that's interesting. That's a good question.

[C]

We just had a lot of conversation about this.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

So what is the average amount homeowners said they'd be willing to pay to extend a one year to a ten year labor warranty on a heating and cooling system? Price is right. So you don't want to go over. It needs to be a number. Given this audience I'm going to specify in US Dollars. I don't want any questions about currency afterwards. You can also put down the number of points that you would like to wager on this. So Brandon b dog has six, John Jay has eight. We will give 10 seconds to write down useful.

[B]

Send it.

[C]

I got nothing to lose. Okay. All right. So get out of here.

[B]

I don't, I don't trust you. So dollars, dollars, how much would the average.

[A]

Don't exceed the amount. I appreciate Brandon's confidence. Just like going in, you know, we're gonna, I, I, I, I like it.

[C]

I'm gonna hope for the best.

[A]

You're a man that acts quickly. John over here is like. Yeah, I think he's on his third answer by this time.

[C]

There's a reason why he's the, we call in USA the visionary and I'm the implementer. Right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

I just full send. He, he's got to be analytical about it.

[B]

Okay, I'm ready. I think.

[A]

Okay. All right, so as a quick recap, John Jay has eight, Brandon has six. If they are wrong, they will lose said points. And again, the question is, was the average homeowner?

[B]

I wagered 3.

[A]

They would pay to extend or one year to a 10 year. Let's see it. Brandon go first. So Brandon is wagering six points and he says it's $1,750.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Are there?

[B]

I'm wagering three points. I'm saying 1500.

[A]

1500. Interesting. All right, neither of y' all are correct. Both of y' all exceeded the amount, which means that Brandon goes down to zero.

[C]

Crap.

[B]

I go down to five. So like, what, yeah, what is the amount?

[A]

Does anyone want to just no points on the line, but does anyone want to guess what the amount is.

[C]

I'll take a wager for all my points back now.

[A]

You know what?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know what, Brandon? We've tried so many. We'll give you one more shot.

[B]

Do we have. Do we have 50 bucks?

[A]

850 closer.

[B]

I mean, I. I guess I would have guessed a thousand. Next.

[A]

It's 563.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

That's very low.

[A]

It is. And what's crazy is if you look at the median, it's even lower. It's 250. And then you see a massive dispersion, standard deviation.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So I think what's interesting is there's a couple different ways that you could interpret those results. I'm curious what. How you guys think about it.

[B]

Well, I think we don't have enough context. Fair is like. Because one.

[A]

That's a great way to. To wash away your wrong answer.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Thank you. Well, like, I. Because I was thinking about this the other day. So we're like, we're think about our extended warranty packages right now. And at first I. I was like, hey, I think our average plan was going to be $500. Like, that's what we estimated. But that was going to be inclusive of water heaters, faucets, everything. Because the way that I think about extended warranty, like, if I go and buy a toy for one of my kids, it's a $50 toy, I get offered an extended warranty of like, 999.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think that as a percentage of the purchase price, extended warranty is like, that's the question. Like, would I be. Would I be willing to pay $2,000 to protect a $10,000 system? Probably not. But would I pay $2,000 to protect A $30,000 system? Sure, probably.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So I. I feel like the percentage of purchase price might be a. Which I would love to know that data point, because that would be fascinating.

[C]

I guess. I mean, maybe it's just because I just recently had to replace all the kitchen appliances. I wonder if that also gives false.

[B]

Did you buy extended warranty?

[C]

I didn't, but I did get the pricing on it. And I wonder if that's what, like, gives you the false sense of it, because they were honestly pretty cheap. It was like 99 for the fridge, less than that for the dishwasher. The prices felt very, very cheap comparatively. So if I'm looking at how much I spent on a fridge versus how much an H vac system costs costume.

[B]

So that's like 5% of the purchase price.

[A]

The cheapness make you More or less inclined. Like did the inexpensiveness make you more or less inclined to go with it? Like if it was $200 or $300 rather than 99. Yeah. I don't know.

[C]

Honestly, that's a good question. I guess. I think if it's not even in percentages as dollar amounts.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Emily is like, it's night, you know, it's 100 bucks, whatever. Could you do that? Would it really matter?

[B]

Not much. Right.

[C]

And if I'm thinking about an H VAC system, I would immediately have to go buy an H vac system or any point in the future. Now thinking about that, I could see how you would see, expect lower. If I paid 100 bucks for a fridge, that was a couple grand. Okay. This is $12,000. 5, 600 bucks. Right. Like I could, I guess I could see where homeowner would get the math from on that if they've ever had to purchase anything that they've been offered extended warranties on.

[A]

True. So I think what's also really interesting is this was asked as an open ended question where we asked them, oh, that is interesting. The dollar amount. It is a different question. Which is. And specifically what is the max amount you are willing to pay to go from 1 to 10 year? It also becomes really interesting which is instead if you said, hey, if an extended warranty was offered for 7% of the purchase price, would you go forward with it? Right. Like that would help, help assess, as I see it, the willingness to pay. Like what could you actually. Or that would help assess what you could actually charge. This instead tries to assess the perceived value, which is not necessarily the same thing.

[B]

Well, and it's very low. I mean, 500 is kind of a shocking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is really surprising to me. Yeah.

[A]

Which to wrap things up and before we anoint the winner. Crown vest.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, Masters has the, the green jacket. We have a black Carhartt closer jacket.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Closer.

[B]

Yeah. Are you tired of paying money on leads that don't convert With Pay per Call IO you only pay for a lead when your phone rings. No junk leads, no bots and no guesswork. Just real calls from real customers. Pay per call IO helped our company achieve a 5 times ROI in just 60 days. If you're ready for marketing that actually delivers, head to Pay per call IO and book a free demo today. That's pay per call IO. Get more calls, not excuses. Click the link in the description to get started.

[A]

What surprised you the most of everything today?

[C]

All of them, because I got a lot of them.

[A]

Wrong.

[B]

I was constantly surprised.

[C]

Constantly surprised.

[A]

Every question I was more surprised what I got with Ryan, honestly.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Most surprising. I don't know, probably the search side of it. How much of it is reliant on that. And I guess really actually was the differences between the millennial and side. I expected that to be a little different, which obviously I was incorrect on.

[B]

So, yeah, I think mine might have been extended war, dude, to be honest. I think, and this is just like from talking in the industry, extended warranty. On one hand, I think people are like, I've personally never bought an extended warranty, so I'm not like a. I can't like ask myself, like, what would I do in that scenario? Because nothing's ever seemed valuable to me. Yeah. But like, there's whole companies that have driven. Well, maybe that's not even the place to start. Like in the list of objections that sales training usually covers in our industry, warranty is like one of the top.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, that's one of the big things is like, what's the warranty?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it, for me, it really just opens up more questions. It's like, okay, if we don't value extended warranty, then like, what's the other context? What's the percentage of purchase price that we care about? Should that warranty have just been included? Like, would they, would they value a system more? Yeah, if it included a 10 year warranty versus, like, oh, here's a $500 ding. Like, how do you get someone to value it? Because I feel like most of the training and Nextar and certain path, like a lot of it is, or certain path anyways, is very focused on like the no lemon. The really like hitting warranties hard. So it was. Yeah, that was surprising to me that like it wasn't valued.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

As much as I would have thought.

[A]

Sure. For me, what surprised me was the AI search, the amount we talk about AI search and how it's changing everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the fact that for a millennial, it's about as popular as walking into Home Depot. Right. In terms of how they're going to find a contractor.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I think that is very surprising. Obviously it will change over time. Like, to be clear, like, this isn't a Luddite. Like, let's go put our head in the sand and not care about Claude and Perplexity. Like, it will matter. It will matter more. I think though, the discussion that we had around, well, maybe it's lost a little bit of trust as we go through that sort of valley of disillusionment. Before it really.

[B]

I've also just never looked for a contractor on AI.

[A]

Have you ever looked for a contractor period outside of your. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of instances of where you're not looking for contractors. Yeah, yeah. How do you look for a contractor? What is the John Wilson way of finding a contractor? A buddy of mine, probably.

[B]

Probably recommendations.

[A]

Well, it.

[B]

Actually, I'm probably more like a boomer because it's gonna be previous use. Like, do we use them professionally inside Wilson?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then if not that, recommendations. And then, like, my last resort is Google. I would never think to go on AI, like, because I just don't think they would give me relevant search results.

[A]

What's also fascinating about that, Proving once again, John, that you are not like, I'm a boomer. Well, even 24% of boomers would look on Google. 62% of your peers and millennials would look on Google first. And you are not like your.

[B]

I would. I wouldn't. Yeah.

[C]

Take it outside of services for a minute. What about, like, restaurants?

[B]

Yeah, probably Google. Probably Google.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay, interesting. Why. Why make the switch then? You're so reliant on the recommendations.

[B]

Well, I probably care a lot about trust just because of how much emphasis we put on it. And I know what contractors like. Yeah, contractors, like, kind of deserve some of the negative reputation that they get. So for me, like, I know that you can gamify Google reviews. Like, I know it, but you can't gamify the kitchen remodel you just did at my sister's house. Like, it either went well or went terribly so. Or like, hey, I've used you 15 times for Wilson. Like, I have a pretty reliable track record of working with this person versus, like, I don't know, you know, Google's just Google. But, like, for a restaurant, like, it doesn't matter if I, you know, lose $200 on a steak I didn't like.

[C]

But my steak better be.

[A]

Holy moly. I think that would. I imagine that goes pretty far here.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But I think. I think the other really interesting thing is just for the contractors that they chose how important, really? Just the time that you're spending with them, whether in the home or responding quickly afterwards.

[B]

Yeah, that was really interesting.

[A]

How important?

[B]

Professional in home presentation.

[A]

Professional in home visit. Interesting enough. Not presentation, which is an interesting counterpoint to this idea of trustworthiness. And do you have control over the decision process? But I think it's really easy to lose sight of. Hey, we did all this work to place on Google.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We may or may not have had opaque pricing online. We get someone to the home or zooming in or telephony in, what is their experience from that moment on? What is the follow up? What is the responsiveness and even being in control? What control do they have over it?

[B]

Well, gentlemen, interesting stuff.

[A]

This was fun. So fun. There was heightened competition and if there was a sportsmanship award, I don't think either of you would have won it. Technically.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

The best.

[B]

Incredible.

[A]

Not sized for a man.

[B]

Yeah, we really. We made an assumption.

[C]

Yeah, he was prepared for me to win this.

[B]

Yeah, he did. He made an assumption.

[C]

I think I purposely got sleep deprived.

[B]

Hey, guys.

[C]

The day before.

[B]

I'm a closer.

[A]

He is a closer. Adorable. Thank you all for joining. We look forward to running this competition back next year and seeing who is the second annual winner of the Closer Mantle homeowner survey. And if you're curious to learn more, you can go to usemantle.com forward/survey and see all of the results.

[B]

Oh, yeah, solid. We'll put the link in the description below.

[A]

Great.

[B]

Thanks for joining us. Make sure you give us a five star wherever it is you listen to podcasts and hit that sub button on YouTube.