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- [00:01]
Val Carey
Did you know that parents rank financial.
- [00:02]
Melody Fox
Literacy as the number one most difficult.
- [00:05]
Val Carey
Life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can send money to.
- [00:11]
Melody Fox
Kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance.
- [00:15]
Val Carey
And keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely and parents can rest easy knowing their kids.
- [00:24]
Chris Colbert
Are learning about money.
- [00:25]
Val Carey
With guardrails in place. Try Greenlight Risk free today@greenlight.com Wondery.
- [00:34]
Melody Fox
Hi everyone. This season the subject of wrongful conviction has been a central narrative of our reporting on Sandra Hemmes case.
- [00:43]
Val Carey
So I wanted to let you know.
- [00:44]
Melody Fox
About another podcast that explores similar themes from our friends over at dcp. Called say Their Name. Say Their Name focuses on the assault and killing of black people by police and in stand you'd ground states, highlighting.
- [00:58]
Val Carey
Incidents throughout the United States.
- [01:01]
Melody Fox
Each episode serves as a memorialization for.
- [01:04]
Val Carey
These individuals and is told through the.
- [01:06]
Melody Fox
Words of people who knew them best. The episode you're about to hear focuses on the story of 34 year old.
- [01:13]
Val Carey
Miriam Carey, who was driving with her.
- [01:16]
Melody Fox
Baby in the car when she was shot and killed by Capitol Police after she accidentally made an incorrect turn into a White House security checkpoint point. Please have a listen.
- [01:31]
Val Carey
This picture right here, that's from when we had a family trip back in 2007. We went to Niagara Falls and on that trip in this particular picture right here. Oh this picture right here. I I took this picture of Miriam when we were in Niagara Falls. I love butterflies and so it was my idea to go to the Butterfly Conservatory while we were there and the butterflies there were so beautiful. They had blue butterflies, they just gorgeous butterflies. And these butterflies just kept landing on Amy, my other sister and Miriam. They weren't landing on me and so I was getting pictures of them but none of the butterflies will land on me. And I'm the one that love butterflies and I'm the one we should go when this horrific event happened to my sister, my mom is was such a prideful woman and she liked things in a certain way and she definitely didn't want my sister's death to be shrouded or looked upon as just another death where oh you're wearing a T shirt and you're marching in the street. That was not of my mother at all. And so I said each year we're going to remember Miriam the way she lived, not in the horrific way that she was killed. I felt I wanted to honor her and remember her by releasing butterflies because that's one of. One of the happier memories that I have of my sister of when we went to the Butterfly Conservatory in Niagara. So on her birthday and on her death day, we released butterflies. She was. She was happy. She was happy to be a mother. She had her little girl who looks just like her. I do know that my sister had a valid driver's license and a car and she had every right to be in Washington. Why was she there that day? I don't know. I have no idea. But she was there with her daughter, who was only 13 months. The catalyst of the series of events that eventually unfolded started with a plainclothes officer. He accosted her car by dragging a gate in front of her car. He wasn't identified as an officer.
- [04:21]
Melody Fox
People saying that Miriam's car was used as a weapon or that she fled and I mean, what else would you do as a mom if guns are drawn at your child? If it was a traffic infraction, you don't pull a gun at somebody for a U turn or a traffic infraction.
- [04:38]
Val Carey
And they knew that my niece was in the backseat of the car and they still felt the need to shoot at my sister's moving vehicle over 26 times, hitting her five times in the back and nearly hitting my niece. Never thought that my sister would be a victim of police violence. Never thought that my sister would be shot in the back of her head by a cop. Never in a million years.
- [05:19]
Chris Colbert
I'm Chris Colbert. Thanks for tuning in. To say their name Brought to you by DCP Entertainment this series takes a deeper look into the impact of the assault and killing of black people by the police. And in stand your ground states, we share the stories from families who have been negatively impacted in these situations. We did not talk to officers or to governing bodies, just the families and their support systems. We are not the court of law, nor do we try to be for legal purposes. We are not here to presume guilt or innocence for anyone because quite frankly, we do not want to be sued. We simply want to give the families a voice while examining what happens when the hashtags stop and the news, unfortunately moves on to the next big story. All we want to do is give the families the opportunity to control their narrative and share ways we can all help. Warning Some of the discussions may be particularly disturbing and even emotionally overwhelming at times. When one of those moments occur that may be particularly triggering, you will hear this chime. For more specific details on the timing of these moments, please visit our show notes on this episode of say their name. We Focus on Miriam Carey. Miriam Carey was a young mother, daughter and sister. She enjoyed hosting events and entertaining at her house. Goal Driven. She was working in Connecticut as a registered dental hygienist, something that she loved to do. On October 3rd, 2013, everything changed when Miriam drove to Washington D.C. with her 13 month old daughter. After taking a wrong turn at a White House security checkpoint, a plainclothes officer pulled a gate in front of her car, impeding Miriam's path. Once Miriam was able to get out of the checkpoint, she was pursued by Secret Service officers and Supreme Court police with weapons drawn. Though Miriam was initially able to avoid the shots fired at her vehicle, she was further pursued when she attempted to make a U turn, taking her back down Constitution Avenue towards the Capitol. There she ran into Supreme Court police with guns drawn. This is where an officer and Secret Service officer each fired nine rounds at 2:20pm Just seven minutes after her start at the initial White House checkpoint, this same Secret Service officer had previously fired eight rounds at Miriam. Miriam was unfortunately killed as she was struck five times, three times in her back, one in the left arm and one in her head. Val, Miriam's sister, and the rest of the Carey family were all in New York City finding out about this horrific incident on the news and from investigating reporters. As a former NYPD officer, Val called on her colleagues to establish a perimeter around her house to keep reporters at bay. There she gathered her family to try to figure out next steps as they wait to be notified. Various narratives have already started and the inconsistencies of the media and the police start to become clear.
- [08:38]
Val Carey
And at the time I had a TV in the office and my husband was in the office. And so when I turned on the TV downstairs, I saw what I saw and then I came upstairs to tell him and he turns on the tv.
- [08:52]
Chris Colbert
We take you live now to NBC News justice correspondent Pete Williams with breaking news, the identity of the woman behind the wheel. Pete, what can you tell us tonight?
- [09:00]
Melody Fox
Well, several law enforcement officials and congressional sources tell us that the woman in the car is a 34 year old woman from Stamford, Connecticut, a dental hygienist named Miriam Carey. The Secret Service has given us a little more detail of what happened when this all started at the one of the gates at 15th and E. They say this happened at 2:12 when the car she was driving, a black Infiniti sedan, hit some temporary security fencing at an outer perimeter checkpoint. The Secret Service agent tried to stop her. They tried to put a little barrier. She heads back up toward the Capitol, ends up on the Senate side near the Hart Senate office building. Basically between that and the Supreme Court building. And that's where she is finally stopped. She is shot. Her injuries end up being fatal injuries. And of course then the police discover that there was what they say is this one year old child that was in the car but was unhurt. They're searching her house up in Stamford. They've got local police, FBI up there searching the house. Bomb squad folks as a precaution. We haven't heard of anything that they found there. She did not have a gun.
- [10:10]
Val Carey
So of course I'm making assumptions that it is my sister. You already have gotten warrants to go and swoop down on her house in Connecticut to search her house for what? Because you guys shot an innocent woman and you're trying to. You're pulling that straws now. There was a search warrant issue immediately. They did take away her laptop and her phones. They took some other things which they returned. I don't know why. I think it would have made them feel better if they found something disparaging and then they would say, oh, well, this person did X, Y and Z. There was nothing to be found. And you're trying to justify what you did and there's no justification for it. There was reference that, oh, she may have or was using her vehicle as a weapon. A vehicle is not a weapon in no manner from my understanding. Protocols are pretty much reflective and there's certain things that are basic across the board. You don't fire at a moving vehicle unless of course, there is perhaps gunfire coming from that vehicle. And there was none because she didn't have a gun, she wasn't shooting at anyone and she was driving away. So where's the threat in her driving away from you? You were the threat and you shot her. And so I contacted one of my friends from pd. I told him, I said, call my attorney. I called three of my confidants, which was my attorney, my friend who's a retired first grade detective and my mentor who's a retired lieutenant and went to go get my mom because she couldn't get out of her apartment because there were reporters just parked outside of her apartment like harassing her. And she had my niece, Amy's daughter with her at the house. And I'm not sure where Amy was. Amy eventually came to the house, but the reporters were over there, over on the block where I used to live at, looking for a story, speaking to the wrong people who didn't know anything. But shortly thereafter, the reporters were camped out front. And then the FBI came to the door with the Secret Service. And this is before my attorney got here. And I said, you'll have to wait until my attorney arrives. You wait outside. And then when my attorney came, they came in. And then I said, are you here to give me a notification? And they said no. They wanted to know when was the last time I spoke to my sister. They wanted to know if she had any political agendas. So you're trying to criminalize my sister when she's the victim? She was never arrested, never in her life, didn't have a criminal background, was an upstanding, law abiding citizen, homeowner, budding entrepreneur, a professional, a registered dental hygienist with education. And she was unjustifiably shot in her back multiple times. Now they're grappling. She wasn't a thug on a corner. She wasn't engaged in criminal activity. She was driving her vehicle. And then they want to try to throw. Throw out the what ifs. There is no what ifs prior to me getting any notification. And even with the FBI and the Secret Service representatives coming to my house that evening, they still didn't confirm nor deny whether or not that was my sister that was in the vehicle. When the news was initially broke to me by reporters calling my phone, not by an official police representative giving a notification. Which is what? In any case, when someone is in an accident or killed, there are police notifications, and specifically when there is a police involved shooting, that notification should have came from a police department, and it would have been like interdepartmental correspondence coming from D.C. notifying New York City, and then NYPD would have come to notify the family. That didn't happen. Going in between my police head and my sister head, but also knowing that everything from this moment forward is being spotlighted. The media wants. It doesn't matter. You know, they just want a story. Someone needs to give me some facts so I could process what's happening. You know, they thrive off of spontaneous utterances. And then they use that to create a story which is unfair to families who have not even officially been notified that their loved one has been killed. And then you have to try to make sense of what's happening. And then whatever you're saying, because you're confused, you're. You're trying to grapple with what little information that you're being given. And they just want a story with little information.
- [15:40]
Chris Colbert
Val was able to piece together some of the story.
- [15:44]
Val Carey
What happened that day was an overzealous off duty, plain clothed officer felt he needed to interject himself into something that was a mere U turn situation and tried to stop her from driving her car. Witness accounts stated that my sister tried to avoid him twice and he, you know, was persistent in trying to impede her, her path. And you're holding a water cooler. And not only are you holding a water cooler, but you're holding a plastic bag too, which clearly indicates that you're not working in an official capacity. You couldn't even take the time out to put the water cooler down. You're still holding it. And tried to stop her from driving her car. In the midst of him doing that, he fell. And then a pursuit ensued because of whatever was said over the radio, which me and my attorney doing like gumshoe work talking to people, did find out that allegedly someone went over the radio and said, officer down. Now if in fact someone did say officer down, you would think that terminology is often used when an officer is shot. And so ultimately these officers then followed my sister's car as if maybe perhaps she had a gun and she did not. So again, the catalyst of those events that occurred that day stem from this officer who is carrying a water cooler, and he's an off duty officer carrying a cooler. A water cooler. You're off duty, you're not in uniform. And why are you dragging what is known to be like a parade partition in front of a moving vehicle? That is not what you're taught and trained to do. So that's for beginners. So again, logically, trying to avoid someone who's trying to impede your, your path of movement. This person is not acting in an official capacity. You don't know who this person is. Unfortunately, that person is the catalyst of the events that ultimately led to my sister's death, which should never have happened. And then following that event, other officers pursued her and had guns drawn on her. Those police radio transmissions will tell a full story. Have they been released to the public? No. Have they been released to the family, even upon foia, which stands for the.
- [18:33]
Chris Colbert
Freedom of Information Act?
- [18:34]
Val Carey
No. Because it tells the story of exactly what happened. And they knew that my niece was in the backseat of the car and they still felt the need to shoot at my sister's moving vehicle over 26 times, hitting her five times in the back and nearly hitting my niece. They did hit my niece's car seat, which is in the book Capital Crime. I don't know if you are familiar with the book, but the book Capital Crime that was written by Garth Camp.
- [19:06]
Melody Fox
That infant child was a victim of violence. But the narrative that was played over the news is that that child was somehow rescued from this bullet riddled car. And now the heroes that have come to rescue her are getting credited for saving the baby. But we can't get to that before we get to the fact that the baby was shot at. And the only reason, by God's grace, wasn't killed, and it's so sad, is because the bullet just happened not to hit her. That wasn't her particular fate. But given the circumstances and the amount of bullets that went into that vehicle, that baby could have been killed. And that matters. It has to be after the fact. Oh, she has to be killed. For us to acknowledge the fact that that baby was a victim of violence and terror as well.
- [20:07]
Chris Colbert
That's Melody Fox, one of Val's closest friends turned sisters. Though they met after Val lost Miriam, Melody has served as a huge support and advocate for the family.
- [20:18]
Melody Fox
I go by Melody Fox. I have a background in New York publishing that dates back to 1997 and doing way before Instagram and Twitter, publicizing not only black businesses, but stories of concern in our community. And there were many stories in the 90s under the Giuliani reign that had dealt with police brutality. I have a story background as a newspaper publisher that actually got my start at 23 years of age. One of the youngest, the youngest African American woman to own and operate a full community newspaper in the history of the black press. And I've covered cases historically. I covered the 1999 shooting death of Amadou Diallo in the Bronx. He was shot in his vestibule. And one of the things that struck me about that case was also the humanity of his mom. Kadiatou Jalo is the correct pronunciation that she taught me, was the humanity as we talked about her son and the fact that he had, he didn't have a history of trouble. So now you come in to bury your son that got shot while he was in front of his home because his wallet was supposed to be a gun. So now let's get back to Miriam. And Miriam was in her car, a car that she owned with her child in tow. You know, it's important that that doesn't get left out. So, you know, my interest in the case was making sure that we don't let cases like this get brushed under the rug, that we do highlight it and also put a spotlight on the families because to me, that is a piece oftentimes that may get stepped over or glossed over like These are the families left to pick up the pieces in the wake of not only just losing their loved one, but losing their loved one in such a tragic and also unexpected way. What was so compelling? When I met Val, I made it my business to meet her in person because I, at the time was during production on a radio program, Major Market Radio in New York. And I said, okay, we can have her on as a guest, but I need to meet this woman in person, you know, that just went through this, you know, horrific ordeal. I had her number because, again, she was a guest for our radio program. And I decided to meet her in person. And I came, I found her in Brooklyn, met with her. Incredibly composed, given the circumstance.
- [23:09]
Val Carey
I met Melody Fox. It was about seven years ago. Since then, Melody has become my sister. So whenever we're together, people, they know us as sisters. And when we're introducing one another, you know, to people, this is my sister for context, for people who know me from such a young age, it's like, oh, I didn't know you had another sister. But Melody came into my life because of Miriam. And so it's like I lost a sister and then I gained a sister.
- [23:49]
Melody Fox
Yes, yes, it's true. What you said encapsulates it, Val. You know, losing Miriam and then gaining a sister. I met Val Carey, who was so incredibly. I mean, even finding out, and Val can go into that, finding out about Miriam's death was not in a normal way like that. You. A typical way that you would find out or be notified, like, this is, you know, public news now.
- [24:21]
Chris Colbert
Val and the family were never properly notified, and that delayed their ability to figure out sooner what their next step should be. After Miriam was killed.
- [24:29]
Val Carey
The next morning we drove down to dc. My husband, my sister and her husband and my attorney drove down to D.C. to go and identify my sister because proper notifications were not done. Had a proper notification been done, maybe perhaps we wouldn't have taken that five hour drive. The next morning, let me tell you, driving down to dc, I felt as if I could not see out of my eyes. It was just like white glaze over my. Like, it was so stressful. The str. Like, I don't even get headaches, but the stress of just driving it. And I. And I tried to keep it light in the car. I tried to play music. And then I remember us stopping at a Cracker Barrel. And I remember, and I guess maybe my pressure was high. I don't even have high blood pressure. But I was telling Amy, we were in the background. I Was like, I can't see out my eyes. Like. Like, it was as if it was like a snowstorm or like a sunburst or it was just, like, white. I really couldn't see. It was, I guess, the mounting notion that I'm going to identify my sister. And then when we get there, they tell you can't take any pictures. They put me in the room. They. They bring me a picture of her on a slab with a blue tarp up to here. And so I wasn't even physically able to go see her. I, as a former law enforcement officer, felt body identifications. You could go into the morgue and see. And then it's like, I identify myself as former law enforcement. And there was no courtesy, none. Like, I just felt so disrespected. I didn't even feel like the picture was real. I need to see her body. There was this protection of people, you know, in place where it's like, no, they didn't want me examining her. And, you know, it's just. I don't know, the investigator, I mean, I wanted to examine. They were like, no, you just need to see her. And I was able to see her, but not. They wouldn't. And I could have protested, but why? You know, I listened to level heads and, you know, because her arm was mangled, from what I understand. I was like, no, you don't want to see that. I did actually want to see it. You know, people think they're protecting you. Processing the probability that my sister was dead, I honestly was not really in grief like I was, but I wasn't. I was really thinking what my logic had or at least attempting to think with my logical head. And how does this make sense? And let's speak facts. And. Okay, what. What were the events that occurred?
- [27:43]
Melody Fox
Val, I just want to interject for a moment. I mean, can you hear as a family member that is dealing with the tragic loss of their loved one now having to do detective work. Another thing that is compelling about this case, uniquely, is Val Carey's background in law enforcement. You often don't hear the victims of these police situations having a close family member or themselves being, you know, a part of law enforcement. So as a decorated member in law enforcement, not just as a cop, but as an NYPD sergeant, she's familiar with protocol. So to me, that. That was another piece to this case. Like, wait a minute, you have someone that knows now that served on the post of protecting the people. She is a part of the blue historically, and she doesn't run from that. Right. She doesn't negate her post because she served honorably as an NYPD sergeant. And we do need law enforcement, you know, on levels, just to keep, you know, our community safe and supported. It's unfortunate that the bad apples, you know, give a bad rap to those that do serve honorably. But the fact that she has this background and new protocols, she could speak on the behalf of her family and ask those, you know, pertinent questions in terms of how the officers operated that day and the fact that they breached so many departmental protocols, now have together a story. It's criminal, you know, on multiple fronts, because now that family doesn't get a chance to do a natural process of grief, because now you're in this mode of trying to figure out, because it is important to find out, you know, what happened to your loved one. But that is only in the absence of transparency. So here we have a case of this incident happened in broad daylight, but yet we don't have the documentation. You have state officials that were out there, from the local D.C. police to Secret Service, like, why isn't there a chain of documentation that is fully transparent to say what happened? Especially if you're saying that you guys are absolved from any wrongdoing, then that's even more of a reason to be transparent. If I was transparent and. And clear, then you would know completely what happened, and it would be presented. You'd have either some supporting footage or documentation. It would be right there. You wouldn't have to try to figure it out and piece it together, because it would be clear and plain. And in the absence of footage and documentation being handed over, if even not publicly, the families deserve that. Even if it's something that, okay, this is not to be released publicly, the families should have unedited information about what happened to their loved one, period.
- [30:52]
Val Carey
And what's so discerning is when people say, well, there's this saying, ignorance is bliss. So if I didn't have certain knowledge, maybe perhaps this wouldn't. It's disturbing on so many different levels, but it disturbs me even more knowing what I know to be protocol and what should be done, and then being treated in a total different way. It's insulting. And so then it's like, you have to pursue what's right, what should rightfully be done. You have to pursue that which is the pursuit of justice, and it does impede your natural grief process.
- [31:46]
Chris Colbert
After taking a trip to D.C. with no real information from the authorities, not only were Val and the family there to identify Miriam but they were also there to figure out where the police had taken Miriam's 13 month old daughter, who had been taken by officers after the traumatic ordeal.
- [32:02]
Val Carey
In the immediate aftermath, which we were trying to ascertain, who had her, I don't know, some child services was holding her. Her father then went the next day and got her, which we were on our way to D.C. also, we were trying to get her. He took her. He didn't produce her to us. He didn't let us know where he was at. If you Google it, you'll see that there was a court custody fight. I don't speak about her much because there is still that thing. Whereas we're trying to bridge the relationship. We want to be a part of her life. But you have to ask yourself what man would take a daughter from the maternal mother's family? And you were estranged from her prior to her death. You can say whatever you want to say. The times that I have gotten to, you know, see her, speak to her and be with her, I'm thankful for it.
- [33:07]
Chris Colbert
Unable to get access to her niece, Val moved forward with the next steps for Miriam, the funeral.
- [33:13]
Val Carey
And so I notified the funeral home here in New York and eight days later she was back in New York. They went and picked her up. After they were able to release the body, I did the video montage. Friends and family supported people, drove in from as far as Georgia, I guess in California to come. You know, her ex boyfriend, of course was there. He came whom, even though they were not together, they were still really good friends. I don't know, I mean, I can't even really talk about the funeral. There was a chief in the, in the department who came. Two chiefs actually came to my sister's wake. One came in full uniform. Another chief stood with me at, at Restoration and released Butterflies with us. So yes, I did get support, I got support that day, that night from NYPD because these reporters were on my property and they had them go across the street, they put a barrier outside my house, then they cut off the block. You couldn't even come on a block because it was like harassment. So they, they looked out in that sense to afford me some sort of privacy.
- [34:45]
Chris Colbert
Since this horrific incident occurred, the Carey family were constantly surrounded by the media. It had been inquisitive reporters who had first alerted Val and her mom. And it was reporters who had surrounded Val, Amy and their mother's homes. Everyone wanted to break the story, even if that meant constantly contradicting their own narratives. Initial reports were conflicting on how many People were in the vehicle. What was she attempting to do with the vehicle? Why was she in D.C. and it even brought into question Miriam's mental health.
- [35:15]
Val Carey
To be quite honest, I'm not gonna focus on what was initially said because again, what I was saying then, journalists were sloppy and lazy and not being journalists and just grabbing certain stories off of the wire apy. So once it's on the wire, it's like, oh, this is a story, it's true. And you're just gonna keep putting it out there. I'm not gonna regurgitate falsehoods about my sister so that it can be used like, oh, this recent interview, your sister said you're gonna take something out of context. No, I'm not doing that.
- [35:47]
Melody Fox
What I think people need to realize is that when families have a loss of a loved one in such a tragic way, as Miriam's life was taken because of the nature of it, it was high profile in that it was all over the news, that there's an additional challenge that families have to face. Not only are you dealing with the loss of your loved one, but, but you're also navigating all of this press. A lot of misinformation.
- [36:13]
Val Carey
People were trying to depict her in a way that she was mentally unstable, which she was not. Just the day before she was at work, you're gonna try to justify killing a woman by saying, oh, she was crazy? No, she was not crazy. Let's start there. Mentally ill, she was not. But needless to say, if you say she was, is that how you treat mentally ill people? You kill them, you shoot them, you shoot them in the back? No. There's protocol for that regardless, across the board. You isolate and contain. But that's neither here nor there. That didn't apply to her.
- [36:52]
Melody Fox
We begin with those 38 minutes of fear and chaos in the nation's capital today.
- [36:57]
Chris Colbert
And tonight we know that the person at the center was, was a woman with a very young child in a car.
- [37:03]
Melody Fox
She rammed the barricade outside the White House next to car chase gunshots, a nervous city in lockdown. People taking shelter on city streets, police rushing in, a sniper in position on the Senate steps.
- [37:18]
Chris Colbert
The most serious injury to a law enforcement officer is a Capitol police officer who joined the pursuit and hit a Capitol barricade as it was being released to lock down the area.
- [37:28]
Val Carey
They show pictures of a mangled police car. To couple that with the story to make it seem as if my sister rammed her two door Infinity into this police car and mangled it, which there was no front end damage to even support that. But if someone didn't see my sister's car, they would think, oh, she went on this chase, she, she rammed into these cars. And that wasn't the fact, that wasn't the case. And she wasn't speeding.
- [38:04]
Melody Fox
So people saying that Marion fled and I mean, what else would you do as a mom if guns are drawn at your, at your child? If it was a traffic infraction, you don't pull a gun at somebody for a U turn or a traffic infraction. You got guns drawn, not just at me. So I'm like, if we could put ourselves in the mind of Miriam and none of us know exactly what she was thinking in those moments, but in a very logical perspective as a mom, she wasn't traveling alone, she was traveling with her child. Her child was strapped in a car seat as a protective mom would do, making sure your baby is secure. And now you're securing a child in a car seat and guns are drawn at your child. So you driving away as fast as you can, you don't have time to figure it out. You just, you're going. That's what I think a logical perspective would be in a moment in terms of a mother's instinct.
- [39:03]
Chris Colbert
Sisters Val and Amy decided to take matters into their own hands and talk to the media.
- [39:08]
Val Carey
I got to speak to Anderson Cooper while I was in D.C. decided to do Anderson Cooper first because I like, I personally like Anderson and I felt that being on CNN with Anderson was going to, we would be able to get a message out and Anderson actually was, you know, he was decent.
- [39:28]
Chris Colbert
Valerie and Amy, I can't imagine how tough this is and what you're going through. I'm so sorry for your loss. Amy, what do you want people to know?
- [39:37]
Val Carey
I want people to just understand that.
- [39:40]
Melody Fox
Miriam, she was a young, 34 year old, vibrant woman and she had a.
- [39:47]
Val Carey
Lot of dreams and aspirations. She was fun, she was loving, she was very nurturing to her daughter. She was a new mom and she was excited about that. She always talked about teaching.
- [39:58]
Melody Fox
Her field was dental hygienists and she.
- [40:00]
Val Carey
Wanted to go further and give back in the field. She health was everything that she lived for and she just was a wonderful person. People need to see that she was more than the suspect that was driving the car.
- [40:14]
Chris Colbert
Does any of this make sense to you, Amy?
- [40:16]
Val Carey
No, we're still trying to put the pieces together. It's very sudden. It still doesn't seem real and we're just waiting for the real story as to exactly what happened to come out. The investigation is still on 4th, and we were very interested to know what happened. We don't know what happened.
- [40:38]
Chris Colbert
Valerie, do you have any idea why she may have driven down to dc? I mean, there are all sorts of, you know, reports that she had been having emotional problems. That authorities, according to some authorities, that there were some drugs for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, you know, and for depression found in her.
- [40:56]
Val Carey
In her house.
- [40:57]
Chris Colbert
Does this make any sense to you?
- [40:59]
Val Carey
What I can say and will say is that my sister was not a bipolar schizophrenic individual. And I can't say as to why she was in D.C. but regardless of the reason that she was there, her life shouldn't have ended there. Anderson Cooper was actually the first interview that we took. I mean, prior to even getting on the road, like, that evening, we had the Doctors Calling Piers Morgan Show. But you just wanted a story, and some of them wanted to twist a story. Like we went on Megyn Kelly show later, which I regretted going on her show. I don't like her. Like, she. What she did was presented it as if, you know, she wanted to, like, really tell the story or have us share what was happening. Oh, I'm a mother. And I wasn't even thinking in that moment. And again, that, like, in the waking hours when you're in the middle of something, you're not going to know everything. You're not going to see all the angles coming at you. Oh, I just had a baby. And I, you know, I. I sympathize. And. But then the moment it opened up, she's like, who was. Miriam Carey was. Who's this crazed woman? She said something that was very disrespectful because we were. It was done, like, telecast here from my living room. And I was. I told my turn. I'm not doing this. He was like, no, we're gonna finish. I was so upset because that's not the person that I spoke to on the phone. And so I started to kind of discern which show to go onto, because I wanted to get the message out. What I wanted people to understand that she was a person, but she was a mother. And she was killed and shot. Like, you should be enraged about that. She was shot in her back. She's a mother. They didn't say, oh, we're so enraged. Reverend Charlton didn't speak up in voice, you know, outrage that a mother, a black mother with a child, a baby. Reverend, where were you? You couldn't say anything because you wasn't getting paid she was unarmed. She didn't have a gun on her. But because it doesn't speak to your pocket, you're not going to speak about it. I'm just saying it's okay, though. But if you have a certain influence and people have these expectations, but they don't know the nuances behind. They don't know the business behind the business, because it is a business. So you want me to say her name? It's gonna cost you. I had been reached out and approached by, from day one, multiple media outlets. We also did the Good Day show with Chris Cuomo. We did 2020 with Gio Benitez. We did Good Day New York with Matt Lauer. But in particular, when Melody reached out to me, it was because of her affiliation with a local radio station. I wanted to meet her in person. I just wanted to have the conversation face to face. And that's where we bridged our. Our relationship.
- [44:17]
Melody Fox
Now, that's a bit to the humanity to understand that this is a lot to navigate, you know, the loss of your loved one, which is not a public, you know, person or personality. It's just your loved one, like, this is your sister, your baby sister. And, you know, navigating those challenges, of.
- [44:38]
Chris Colbert
Those challenges was figuring out judicially what they could do.
- [44:42]
Val Carey
Fortunately, I had a friend who does like civil cases. And it wasn't like a process of trying to find an attorney, but I knew immediately that legal representation was needed. Especially with the magnitude of what I was seeing on the news and not being officially properly notified, I just instinctively knew that something else was happening. And within the moments in time that I said, okay, I need to have legal representation, the FBI and the Secret Service was at my door. It was just an instinct. Was there ever a trial or anything? No. If there was a trial, we would know the names of the officers. We don't know the names of the officers. There was no grand jury. There was no objective investigation done. The letter that I did receive from the DOJ stated that they didn't believe the officers intentionally, that there was no intent to kill her. But you intended to shoot her multiple times, which is why the case needs to be reopened. And a grand jury needs to decide whether or not this thing is fit to go to trial, which it is, in my opinion. I believe this guy. I don't know what happened to him. During that day, following up with someone from that department, I was told that of the three individuals that they spoke about, one of them left the department, went to another department, and another one has since been promoted. So no one was reprimanded in a way where their jobs were taken away from them, and they definitely didn't face their day in court. They haven't had to account for their actions that day. I remember talking to someone. They were like, they couldn't believe that they thought the way that the officers acted before, like, with the other situations, was normal or acceptable, even if your sister was acceptable, because, you know, a few weeks prior was like the Navy Yard shooting. So, you know, the argument was. Or maybe Adisi was a little more intense. That's still no excuse. Right? How. How tense was New York City after September 11, 2001? How tense were we? Yeah, and I was working that day. How tense were we? How tense were we a month later? It's not excusable.
- [47:30]
Chris Colbert
And besides, this wasn't the only time that someone had breached barricades on Capitol Hill. Tense or not, the results were often never the same as Miriam's.
- [47:40]
Val Carey
Each time an incident occurs. Because there have been multiple incidences during the Obama administration. There was a man who entered the living quarters in the White House, and he was apprehended unharmed. There was another man who had a gyrocopter who landed right on the White House lawn. He was apprehended unharmed. There was a white woman who crashed, literally, the White House gate, and she was apprehended unharmed. And she actually had a gun on her. And there were other incidences that have occurred with this white woman. Deadly physical force being used against her would have been justified because she was in a commission of a crime with a firearm. However, those responding officers saw the humanity in her and chose to utilize other means of apprehension of this woman who was committing a crime. My sister was not committing a crime, and yet she was pursued as if she had committed a crime. And the individuals who pursued her then decided, we will shut her down and execute her, because being shot in the back of the head, which is one of the shots that she sustained, is an execution. How does one feel about that? One cannot feel any type of way other than seeing the disparaging difference in the treatment.
- [49:12]
Chris Colbert
And that's not all the incidents. In fact, at least 22 people have been arrested and prosecuted for breaching security at the White House or U.S. capitol from 2014 to 2017. Many of those served minimal sentences, and the few who brandished weapons sustained injuries from officers, but they weren't fatal. In 15 of the 22 cases, we found, judges ordered competency hearings or screenings to ensure those arrested were able to stand trial, including Alicia Kepler, who's attempted to breach the White house at least five times, including two straight July 4th holidays and the annual Easter Egg Roll.
- [49:49]
Val Carey
She's pleaded guilty.
- [49:50]
Chris Colbert
Nearly all of the 22 men or women arrested since 2014 are now free from prison, no longer in custody. A few whose cases have yet to be heard are in mental health care programs with the U.S. prison Bureau. There was even an incident where two Secret Service agents drove drunk through the White House barriers. Several trespassers have even violated court orders to stay away from government buildings. And even More recently, on October 5, 2021, a Michigan man sat illegally outside the Supreme Court buildings and said that the time for talking was done. Officers used what they referred to as a loud bang grenade to distract the man and remove him from the vehicle. August 19, 2021, a North Carolina man surrendered to police hours after telling them he had a bomb in his truck parked outside the Library of Congress on Capitol Hill. He was taken into custody unharmed. But perhaps the largest and most notable breach was. Was the January 6th insurrection, where tens of thousands of Trump supporters broke through Capitol barriers and stormed the People's House.
- [50:56]
Val Carey
You have a mob of individuals that stormed and vandalized and burglarized and theft the People's House. They were actually given egress. They moved the same type of gate that was being held against my sister's car to try to prevent her from. From driving. Those type of gates were then opened for this mob on January 6th to actually enter the Capitol, and no one was searched. You could say those officers on duty were overwhelmed and understaffed. But even still, so total line, you don't let them in. You don't open the gate. You do not give them the escort. And that's what was done with that incident. People started to say, well, what happened to Miriam? Why would she kill this woman? If, you know, it was like, well, if they were black. And so people started to put that race aspect to it. If they were black, they wouldn't have done that. They would have had more cops out there. And perhaps more than likely, we know they would have, but they didn't. It definitely brought more light to her case. But then it's like in the recesses of your mind, it's like, wait a minute. Something like this. Something happened here, and this person was treated so differently that day. It just felt very. It echoed. It echoed what happened today and how I found out about my sister, because I didn't even know what was happening. And then people started texting me and then calling me like, oh, do you see what's happening? Do you see? And it's like, not again. You know, and then I write one tweet, and then all of a sudden, reporters are like, oh, we want to know how do you feel about this? Glad you're asking. You can have people sign this petition, have my sister's case reopen. Like you're trying to race bait me. Like, oh, it's all about, no, no, no, no. Since you want to talk to me, let's talk about this petition to get my sister's case, this case reopened. How about that? With the attention starting to kind of backtrack to, well, whatever happened to that? And the media reaching out, it's like, yeah, I've had a petition for the past seven years. Only had 7,000 signatures. We now have about 85,000.
- [53:27]
Chris Colbert
Even before the insurrection and the multiple incidents of people breaching the Capitol Hill complex and other federally secured grounds, Val found herself thrust into activism for over seven years as she worked to find ways to uplift her sister's name. But it all started with Val's first trip back to D.C. she wanted to try to understand what had happened and see the spaces her sister had been in with her own eyes.
- [53:53]
Val Carey
I went to D.C. to literally, like, walk the path that my sister drove, which was like, I think, like a mile and a quarter. It was me and my attorney. What I was trying to process was the initial reports of her allegedly speeding through the Capitol, which she was not. It's like, okay, we're talking timelines. You, there's timestamp from this point. Then she gets to Garfield Circle, which is where the infamous Alahara Jazeera video shows her driving around, like, backing up, which is part of this screenshot. So what was interesting and very objective, which I appreciated, David Montgomery from the Washington Post. He did a nine page story in the Washington Post. And it was very objective. And it raised a lot of questions as to an issue. Question like, did she have to be killed? And it was a seven minute chase, as he called it. So in his investigative journalism. And that's where I go back to these generalists that were putting out stories. They didn't do the investigation. They outline it. I walked it. The claims that they initially tried to make, and what's really unfortunate about journalism and the news, they talked about this rampage, this chase.
- [55:33]
Chris Colbert
Though there were no large protests, Val and her family set their own standard on how they wanted to commemorate Miriam. Val went back to D.C. again as she organized for a larger group of family, friends, and others to join her in a bus trip.
- [55:48]
Val Carey
And I put it out there, you know, who wants to come to D.C. with me? And we filled the bus. Or was it two buses? I'm so sorry if I don't even remember. But what I do remember, I did these boxes, these lunch boxes. So, like, I asked people what did they want to eat. So you got whether it was turkey or vegetarian. Tudor. And of course, there was, you know, drinks and sun chips and, like, those healthy, you know, healthy choices. Melody, she's like, you're up here making all these sandwiches by yourself the night before. What are you doing? And she's like, only you would do this. Like, well, you know, I know how I like things, so.
- [56:28]
Melody Fox
And even watching her put that together, like, put. Put together a bus trip. And in the midst of grieving and dealing with her own challenges, separate and apart from her sister passing, planning this trip to highlight her sister and getting.
- [56:48]
Val Carey
Everybody to go to D.C. we wanted to kind of commemorate what happened the year before. We staged it as a silent protest because, again, my mother is like. She didn't want people marching in the streets, rioting. Nobody was rioting for Miriam. But if you bring along the right people and the right wrong meaning, but the right people for the part, you can get some people to riot. But that definitely was not our agenda. And my mother never wanted Miriam's name to be associated with any acts of that nature. Okay, we're gonna go to dc, which my mom came that we're going to do a silent protest, and we're going to release Butterflies, and we're going to say her name for each time she was shot. And I've been doing that every year, saying her name for each. Five times for each time she was shot. Councilman Charles Barron has been so supportive of my family. He came on a bus ride with us down there and stood with us. And also Councilman Robert Carnegie. He didn't come on a bus ride, but he sponsored some seats on the bus for people to go, which was very helpful because, you know, it buffered my cost.
- [58:08]
Melody Fox
You had known politicians and community activists that were on that bus ride. And again, this is without it being sanctioned or endorsed by any one particular leading figure. But just because this is a family.
- [58:24]
Val Carey
The second year, we didn't go down there. What we did was we gathered at Restoration with Councilman Charles Barron and Councilman Robert Carnegie, who represents this district. And we released Butterflies inside Restoration because it was, like, cloudy that day. 2016, we went back to D.C. this time it was a caravan. So I asked people to drive their cars. I didn't do the bus. Some of those people that I got to know through social media, I didn't even know they, like, they stood with me and held signs with me, you know, and then there was D.C. black Lives Matter that supported me. Went out there last year for the 28th. Well, I went back to D.C. last year for the 28th for the March, but I didn't go on the day of October 3rd. Hopefully this year there will be some forward movement with having her case reopened. The first year, the idea was to stand and for my mom, and we actually did, because I had gone previously in that year to walk the area. I wanted my mom to see exactly where it happened. So it was two bus loads the first time it was. And they actually sent the representative from the Secret Service to meet us. What's interesting, I found out that this particular person also is like former nypd. I mean, the interaction with us was apart from the reason why I was there. It was quite cordial. And so our contingency got to walk and see in my attorney, which they captured this. He was showing, like, pointing, kind of telling them where, you know, the direction and stuff like that. I don't want to find myself going there every year. That's not my. That's not my goal. That's not what I want to do. She wasn't from D.C. she didn't live in D.C. yes, her life ended there. And I don't honestly feel that the people there even care. I get more concern here in Brooklyn. Last year, my name was put on a mural here, which they unfortunately opened the streets, and the mural is gone. You know, we gathered there, released butterflies. It was really good. It was yellow. But they also had the heart for her eye and the butterfly for the other eye. Sae Adams, who's a. A notable hip hop artist, he's done, like, a lot of stuff in the hip hop realm. He was the artist, and I was able to help him paint some of it. And I was like, I want her name to be like, the why. I want it to be, you know, with a swirl. And I want that. He put the butterfly, which was very, very important to me, because it signifies. It's like us. It just. Yeah, it signifies something to me. There are certain things that are very important to me that will uplift my sister, whether I have to pay for banners or print out flyers myself. And I'll do what I need to do is this is for my sister going to D.C. that cost is, you know, staying in D.C. that cost is on me. Me asking anyone else to come with me. I do take on that cost. If I have to fly somebody in to help me and support me, it's important for me to have what I need, so I'll do that again. Coming from my mom, who's, like, so prideful, we're not one to really be like, could you. Could you give us some help here? Like, why? Why'd you do that? No. However, this year, I will be asking if anyone is interested in having a butterfly release. Because, like, those butterflies there, for the most part, there were people that gathered and I paid for the butterflies, but you still get to release them because it's not about money. So the amount of money that has been spent over the couple of years, it's been thousands of dollars, but I don't know how much money.
- [62:39]
Chris Colbert
As the community commemorated Miriam with a mural, Val came to learn that unfortunately, this wasn't her only family member who had lost their lives to police violence.
- [62:49]
Val Carey
The weekend that Alton was killed, honestly, because that was in 2016. It was the 4th of July weekend. So Philando Castile was killed. It was Alton Philando and Delron Smalls here in New York. But that was by off duty cop. And the feeling that I had that weekend, honestly, I had to get off of social media. I had to turn off lights in my bedroom because I felt as if I was going to have a stroke or something. Because at first I didn't know that Alton was my cousin. So I called Graylin, who I'm really close to, I said, graylin, is that our cousin? And he was like, mm. Regardless of if it was our cousin or not, hearing what happened to him, I was appalled. Like, here we go with somebody else. And then when Philandro, it's like he had a kid in the car and that hurt me. It was like, boom, boom. And then Delron got killed. But what was really bad about that was Delron is the brother of a good girlfriend of mine who I went to school with. And so I literally just was not in a good way. I didn't know how that was going to really affect me. Like, I knew about Terrence, and I remember when it happened. Yeah. It's just. And. And then I think about. It's like two cousins, three cousins. Like, two that occurred in D.C. because Terrence was killed in D.C. and Marion was killed in D.C. and then Alton was killed in Baton Rouge. Yeah. It's like, what does it all mean? You know.
- [64:46]
Chris Colbert
Speaking out for the family and working to uplift her sister's name isn't an easy task. It's taken a physical toll on Val. But not only does she want to do more for her family, she wants to do for others as well.
- [65:01]
Val Carey
So I have been diagnosed supposedly with rheumatoid arthritis. And you sometimes get flare ups from stress. And the flare ups that I feel are, I can't even really describe it. I strive to really stay in the light. I strive to keep my wellness up, to meditate, to really stay grounded. I use my tools, my coloring, my knitting, my, my painting. Like I really just try because it becomes so stressful thinking about not being able to see my niece, thinking about not having justice for my sister, thinking about just all of this. It just is very stressful. It doesn't feel good. And I don't want to have this stress fester inside me and result in pancreatic cancer like my mother. I had 14 fibroids removed from my uterus in April, like the year Mary was killed. I had two fibroids that were removed. I had that surgery and then over the course of 7, 8 years, 14 grew to the size of a 5 month uterus, like holding a 5 month baby. I think about so many different things that I feel that I would like to do. I don't want to think about the families to come, like there should be no families to come. But I think about some of the things that families are presented with within the waking hours of hearing their loved one being slain, shot, killed by police. I know to my family, I think the earnest should be on the city, the state that's involved to offer those services. And sometimes you don't even know what it is that you need when you need it. So I was actually thinking like, okay, maybe perhaps I could create some sort of non for profit organization that encompasses wellness and support services to individuals who are impacted by police violence. But then that's like it's encumbersome and just thinking about it is so engrossed. Like I definitely would need a team around me with that. Like I'm not doing this by myself. Like I'm not doing it. You have to do like a partnership with like some psychologists, a group. So you have that aspect. But then also, you know, you need to be able to, to relieve stress, have some sort of programs where meditation is being taught, where wellness is being taught, where you can get acupuncture or even a massage. Because the tension that builds up inside me personally in my body, it manifests like in knots. And then I go, I pay for massages. And then it's like they're like knocking out the kinks because that's stress. Your body is like holding and building up all of this stress. So I think that different aspects of wellness, mental emotional support, but then also resources on legal, legal ease. You need some legal people to come on board. I know there's places that do pro bono work, but not everyone has access. They don't know who to call to have an attorney you don't necessarily want like an ambulance chaser.
- [68:29]
Chris Colbert
Val continues to fight and petition to get her sister's case reopened. But that's not the only thing she wants.
- [68:36]
Val Carey
Well, there definitely has to be accountability. I think that there is a certain culture and thought process with cops where it's like, oh well, I'd rather be judged by 12 than to be carried by six. And knowing that they are indemnified for whatever their actions are. However, immunity. New York State no longer has qualified immunity. They got rid of it just earlier this year. So that's one state that has taken a stance, I think that just like any other profession, malpractice suits against doctors, officers have been afforded extreme layer of protection. But there's this expectation that, that with that extreme level of protection that you're going to use extreme discernment in your actions. And it has become obvious that officers have taken it for granted. And they're not. Some of them, the ones that are involved in these incidences seem to just kind of throw caution to the wind and don't actually give the amount of care. It's particularly in my personal opinion when it comes to brown people. When I say brown people, I'm talking and I'm doing air quotes. Black people. So transparency, accountability. If an officer is involved in a police related shooting, killing, those officers need to be able to answer to their actions. And it doesn't matter what city, what state, there should be accountability and there should be transparency where those officers are named and publicly disclose to the families and particularly to the families that are involved. I think that people talk about training, definitely training always helps. But you don't just get trained, you get reinforced training, but also diversity in your workforce. And when you have diversity in your workforce and you pair officers with diverse partners, that allows certain cultures who are not familiar with other cultures and not. And that's not saying that that is a factor in all of these instances, but that could be a factor in some of them. It's a couple of things that can actually be implemented. I definitely would like to see more transparency. That's the biggest Thing, it's like, you cannot shroud killing someone under the guise of privacy or. No, those names should be divulged immediately.
- [71:19]
Chris Colbert
Even in the midst of it all, Val has found a way to make some time and do something she enjoys. She has started her own business and hosts her own podcast, T O T.
- [71:29]
Val Carey
M T Talk, where we talk about all things relevant to that time of the month.
- [71:33]
Melody Fox
I love it. Done right?
- [71:37]
Val Carey
I started the podcast, actually, it was December 2009. I literally would prefer to be Googled as Valkyrie minstrel maven, not Valerie Carey, sister of Miriam Carey. I really rather would be talking about, you know, helping and empowering women and having my sister here, you know, you know, getting ready for her TOTM party for her daughter. I would. This is what I would love to have happen, but that's not happening. And I have to talk about my sister and talk about justice for my sister. You know, as a black woman, and I hate using that word, black, but as a black woman in Brooklyn and even as a cop, I might have been concerned. I never was fearful, might have been concerned about my nephew, and I've had talks with my nephew about how you interact with the police, but never in a million years did I ever think that I would have to have a conversation with my sisters, especially as grown, professional women in their 30s, about interactions with the cops. Never thought that my sister would be a victim of police violence. Never thought that my sister would be shot in the back of her head by a cop. Never in a million years. She's missed terribly. My mother died in pain knowing that her daughter was killed. Mothers and fathers should not outlive their children. It's not a natural. It's not natural. I just want people to know that Miriam. The loss of Miriam has impacted not just me, but her friends, family, her friends. She has a friend that works at the dentist office in Westchester. Every birthday, she texts me, August 12th is her birthday. And she always says she's sending her love. And then she says, Marion was very special to her. Sometimes we'll go by the grave site. My mother and her birthday are seven days apart. So we've gone graveside, released butterflies, blow bubbles, had a picnic. We do a picnic with some of the things my mom likes to eat or. Because my mom and Miriam, they share the same. They share the same plot. They're together. She's been missed. Her daughter has been robbed of her mother. And it could happen to anyone. It just. It can happen to anyone. And something like this should never happen. But it has happened. And it can happen to anyone, but I think it will happen to less people if more people stood up and said no, this is not right and we have to hold these people accountable for their actions. So I think I want to end with that. Say Her Name Miriam Carey.
- [74:59]
Chris Colbert
Val Carey continues to fight for justice in the name of her sister, Mariam Carey. Val still has plans to go to Washington, D.C. to deliver thousands of signatures to the Department of Justice in hopes to have her sister's case reopened. Val continues to volunteer in her community and is currently considering creating a foundation that would offer help and emotional support therapy for families impacted by police violence. Please check out our show notes for ways that you can support the family of Miriam Carey, including signing the petition to get the case reopened. But Val Carey is more than just the sister of Mariam Carey who was senselessly killed by law enforcement. Val Carey is the menstrual maven. She hosts her own podcast, totmt Talk, about all things relevant to that time of the month. Make sure to check out her totmt talk anywhere you listen to podcasts. And if you're looking for other ways to be of service, you can call the Department of Justice to request transparency into the Miriam Carey case as well as push to have qualified immunity banned in your state. For more information about qualified immunity and how it works, go back to season one of say Their Name and listen to our episodes about Robbie Tolan later this week. Make sure to check out our bonus material for more information about Miriam Carey and this case. Special thank you to the family of Miriam Carey. Names of the fallen mentioned in these George Floyd Breonna Taylor Amadou Diallo, Alton Sterling, Terrence Sterling Delron Smalls Philando Castile Miriam Carey say Their Name. Say Their name. Say they we appreciate you for listening to say Their Name courtesy of DCP Entertainment, as well as special thanks to our team, host and executive producers Adele Coleman and myself, Chris Colbert, producers Heather Johnson, Ryan Woodhull and Mike Dubose associate producer Quentin Hill and editor and Sound designer Byron Hunt.