Pablo Torre Finds Out
Episode: All-American Grift: We Investigated Trump's Favorite Sports Troll
Date: November 20, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Correspondent: Madison Pauley
Overview:
This episode is a deep investigative “talkumentary” into the rise of Riley Gaines—the swimmer turned political figurehead who became the face of the anti-trans sports movement, a favorite of Donald Trump, and the recipient of major financial and institutional backing. Torre, with reporter Madison Pauley, unpacks Gaines’s transformation from NCAA swimmer to conservative crusader, tracks the money and influence fueling her ascent, and contrasts Gaines’s public narrative of victimhood with the largely untold struggles of her teammates and the darker reality inside her college swim program.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Riley Gaines: From NCAA Swimmer to Anti-Trans Crusader
[03:51-05:23]
- Pablo Torre introduces Madison Pauley from the Center for Investigative Reporting. The episode investigates Gaines’s rise in prominence and how she became central to the political and cultural movement around trans inclusion in sports.
- Madison Pauley: "The poster child, the it girl, the Regina George of this movement is the 24-year-old who clapped longer than anyone else... Riley Gaines."
- First big political moment: Trump signing an executive order with Gaines present, casting her as the quintessential "victim" of trans athletes.
2. Mythmaking and Gaines’s Origin Story
[05:52-11:45]
- Trump's recounting of Gaines as a star athlete whose "trophy was stolen" becomes the movement’s origin myth (despite Gaines actually tying for fifth, not missing first place).
- Pauley and Torre interrogate the constructed nature of Gaines’s victim narrative. They pull from Gaines’s memoir and interviews.
- Pauley: "One of the two dozen people I talked to calls sports a gateway drug to the anti-trans movement."
3. Life Inside the Kentucky Swim Team
[14:59-20:16]
- Interviews with Gaines’s teammates, notably Trinity Ward, reveal a harsh, punishing swim program culture under Coach Lars Jorgensen, including forced swims and body shaming—absent from Gaines’s memoir.
- Ward: "I can't think of a single teammate I had where now I'm like, wow, that person was, like, really confident in themselves and their body...this is nuts." (19:18-20:16)
- NCAA eventually suspends Jorgensen for violations.
4. Omissions and Selective Storytelling
[21:01-23:29]
- The team's toxic atmosphere, including a sexual harassment investigation into an assistant coach, was omitted from Gaines’s accounts.
- “It would suggest that there might be more serious problems in women’s sports than trans people.” — Pauley, (23:29)
5. Transformation and Political Radicalization
[24:20-26:25]
- Teammates describe Gaines as formerly non-confrontational about trans issues—her transformation into a hardline activist was abrupt.
- Ward: "If you told me four years ago that Riley Gaines was going to be the spokesperson for the anti-trans movement...I’d be like, what? You’re crazy."
6. The 2022 NCAA Championships and the Origin of the Grift
[29:20-39:19]
- The pivotal event: Gaines tying Lia Thomas for fifth in the 200-yard freestyle, spun into a story of loss and unfairness.
- An anonymous teammate: "She was being such a bitch about the whole thing… they just couldn't believe it was happening." (31:48-32:14)
- The trophy "controversy" is escalated via Daily Wire and right-wing media.
7. Media & Politics: From Fox News Darling to MAGA Fixture
[40:07-47:20]
- Gaines pivots rapidly to media appearances, campaign ads (Rand Paul, Kristi Noem, Herschel Walker), and CPAC speeches with Trump.
- Gaines’s story is used by lawmakers nationally to push anti-trans legislation: "Riley Gaines is now this avatar for all girls everywhere." (44:21)
- The narrative intensifies: Equating trans inclusion to sexual assault, amplified by the likes of Charlie Kirk.
8. Fact-Checking the Claims
[38:50-39:59]
- Swimmers present at the NCAA championships counter Gaines’s locker room narrative, recalling Thomas behaving discreetly.
- Anonymous swimmer: "She's like wrapped in her towel. She's turned around, not facing anyone... I feel bad for her… she just wanted to come and swim." (39:30-39:59)
9. The Money Machine: How Advocacy Became a Business
[53:14-58:04]
- Pauley tracks the dramatic increase in Gaines’s speaker fees: "More than octupled" from 2023 to 2025.
- Involvement with Fox News, Turning Point USA, conservative think tanks, and the founding of the Riley Gaines Center, funded by billionaire DeVos/Orlando Magic family.
- Pauley: "The main character, the star of the anti-trans athlete movement...happens to be funded by billionaire NBA owners." (58:04)
10. The Legal Offensive and Organizing the Movement
[61:00-71:16]
- Lawsuits led by Gaines (Gaines v. NCAA), with Trump-connected lawyers (Bill Bock), argue Title IX requires banning trans women from women's sports.
- Pauley reveals "Icons," a nonprofit devoted to funding such lawsuits exploded from $100,000 to $1 million.
- Supreme Court is set to address the core issue: Does Title IX require or prohibit bans on trans athletes?
11. The Blind Spots: Abuse and Betrayal Inside Women’s Sports
[73:11-79:42]
- While Gaines campaigns against trans athletes, a major sexual abuse scandal erupts involving her "best friend," Coach Lars Jorgensen, accused (and ultimately banned for life) for serious sexual assault and abusive coaching—a topic Gaines addressed only with a single tweet.
- University records and lawsuits show Gaines’s narrative ignored more urgent dangers to women in sports from abusive male coaches.
- Pauley: “One tweet. What has she said about Lars since then?” (82:40)
12. The Voices Left Out
[84:00-86:22]
- Trinity Ward, former teammate: "I don't think what Riley Gaines does deserves to be called advocacy...if you told most people, all you have to do is make hateful statements on the internet...that is the easy way out...I can’t think of anything else besides money and fame that would cause the dramatic transformation in Riley that I’ve seen.” (84:18)
- Ward: “It’s hard for me to care about Riley Gaines tying for fifth when my swim coach is accused of raping my teammates.” (85:56)
Notable Quotes & Moments (with timestamps)
- “The poster child, the it girl, the Regina George of this movement is the 24-year-old who clapped longer than anyone else... Riley Gaines.”
— Madison Pauley, [04:50] - “One of the two dozen people I talked to calls sports a gateway drug to the anti-trans movement.”
— Madison Pauley, [11:07] - “I can't think of a single teammate I had where now I'm like, wow, that person was, like, really confident in themselves and their body...this is nuts.”
— Trinity Ward, [19:18] - "It would suggest that there might be more serious problems in women's sports than trans people.”
— Madison Pauley, [23:23] - "If you told me four years ago that Riley Gaines was going to be the spokesperson for the anti trans movement...I’d be like, what? You’re crazy."
— Trinity Ward, [25:19] - "She was being such a bitch about the whole thing...they just couldn't believe it was happening."
— Anonymous swimmer, [31:48] - “She is this avatar for all girls everywhere…there aren’t enough examples of female athletes, period, who are losing to trans athletes because there aren’t that many trans athletes in general.”
— Pablo Torre, [43:37] - “The main character, the star of the anti-trans athlete movement…happens to be funded by billionaire NBA owners.”
— Pablo Torre, [58:04] - "We have this one here from 2024. A million dollar organization, like 10 times bigger than it used to be in the span of two years.”
— Madison Pauley, re: ICONS, [66:46] - “It’s hard for me to care about Riley Gaines tying for fifth when my swim coach is accused of raping my teammates.”
— Trinity Ward, [85:56]
Important Segment Timestamps
- 03:51 – Madison Pauley introduction and episode framing
- 05:14 – Donald Trump’s description of Gaines; mythmaking
- 14:59 – Trinity Ward and other teammates describe toxic team environment
- 21:01 – Discussion of what’s left out of Gaines’s memoir
- 29:20 – The “origin story”: the infamous NCAA meet
- 39:30 – Anonymous swimmer fact-checks the locker room narrative
- 53:14 – Pauley reveals explosion in speaker fees, financial incentives
- 58:04 – Evidence of billionaire funding (DeVos, Orlando Magic)
- 61:00 – Legal fight and ICONS funding
- 73:11 – Coach Lars abuse allegations and fallout
- 79:35 – Jorgensen banned from coaching for life
- 84:00 – Trinity Ward’s closing reflections
Tone and Style
The discussion is deeply reported, precise, and often skeptical, with irreverent asides (in Pablo's trademark voice) and a clear commitment to evidence and primary sources. Both Torre and Pauley maintain a sharp yet accessible tone, mixing journalistic rigor with moments of humor and empathy for athletes impacted by the controversy.
Summary Conclusion
The episode paints a picture of American sports and politics at an inflection: Riley Gaines’s unlikely journey from swimmer to conservative icon is a case study in how narratives are constructed, amplified, and monetized. The investigation reveals a story marked by selective victimhood, immense financial and institutional backing, and a deliberate conflation of legitimate concerns for athletes with manufactured outrage. Meanwhile, the raw unaddressed realities of abuse in women’s sports serve as a tragic backdrop—highlighting the gap between what makes headlines and what truly threatens women athletes.
Final thought, from teammate Trinity Ward:
"It's hard for me to care about Riley Gaines tying for fifth when my swim coach is accused of raping my teammates…and people shut up pretty quickly after that."
([86:05])
For listeners seeking the truth behind headlines, this episode is a revelatory journey into how the American culture war is scripted—and weaponized—by the forces of power, money, and media.