← Pablo Torre Finds Out
Pablo Torre Finds Out
An Extremely Content-Brained Share & Tell with Domonique Foxworth and Dan Le Batard
00:50:35
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- [00:00]
Pablo Torre
Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is in the article.
- [00:07]
Dominique Foxworth
He's like, I try to make a movie a year, then my beautiful wife and I around, but I wish I was a dog. If you wanna be a dog, the do the rest of us wanna be.
- [00:18]
Pablo Torre
Right after this ad, you're listening to Giraffe Kiss.
- [00:34]
Dan Le Batard
Look at the grumpy, moody, arrogant face of Dominique Foxworth and yeah, well, you're already happy.
- [00:40]
Pablo Torre
I was joyful to us, Dan.
- [00:42]
Dan Le Batard
I was. I was joyful to see you and was about to syruply express how much I love seeing you guys and how much joy it genuinely brings me that we're doing this together in this form on this platform. And you had angry black man face you gave. And don't. And don't just say it's your face. Don't you. It was. It was. You seemed better than the room.
- [01:04]
Pablo Torre
I don't see color. I just see. I. I don't see color. I just see anger.
- [01:10]
Dominique Foxworth
Nah, you just see content. We'll get to that.
- [01:12]
Pablo Torre
I do, I do, I do. I'm already wondering, do I have to bleep Dan saying black? Are we gonna have to, like, leave it up to the audience to decipher what that word was?
- [01:22]
Dominique Foxworth
If you bleep it, it makes it worse.
- [01:23]
Dan Le Batard
It's so much terrible. So much worse. What did he just call Dominique?
- [01:30]
Pablo Torre
Dominique's carrying around a notebook now, Dan. I don't know if you saw that before. Dominique has like, you look, a moleskin notebook. Why do you have a notebook now?
- [01:40]
Dominique Foxworth
I like to write things down. This is your journalistic effort. This is you. This is Pablo Torre. Find things out. Why do you have a notebook? Why do you have water? Cause you're thirsty? I have a notebook. Cause I like to write things down sometimes.
- [01:53]
Pablo Torre
Pablo. No.
- [01:54]
Dominique Foxworth
Why do you have on a sweatshirt?
- [01:55]
Pablo Torre
That's like asking me why am I drinking from a goblet when all I need is water and you're walking around with like an ink well and a quill.
- [02:04]
Dominique Foxworth
Cuz I'm dope. It's the answer to most questions you have. But is that dope?
- [02:08]
Dan Le Batard
I would think you'd have a computer or something. Just a notes app or something. You got to write it down by hand.
- [02:14]
Pablo Torre
He's an artist. I get it. I get Dominique's an artist. He's more writer than either of us. He's literally writing now.
- [02:20]
Dan Le Batard
No, I will tell you what's happening. This is my theory. Pop psychologist from over here Competitive Dominic Foxworth, who loves to win and be better than others at everything, is writing down independent thoughts all the time that other people in the sports media aren't having because he has independent thoughts that are more interesting than most.
- [02:39]
Dominique Foxworth
Nope, it's just me keeping score with everybody in my life. I'm on the Pablo page right now, and that been a blowout for years. Dominating you, Pablo, coming for your ass. It's the closest match for me.
- [02:52]
Dan Le Batard
You better slow down. You better slow down.
- [02:55]
Dominique Foxworth
I can't lose.
- [02:56]
Pablo Torre
I hate the fact that we're probably gonna Photoshop the page where Dominique just described the score, the running score between me and him.
- [03:04]
Dominique Foxworth
Although you did. You paid for a dinner. You paid for a dinner. I believe that you only paid for the dinner because you knew that I was coming on the show and you wanted to be able to say publicly that you paid for a dinner because you. Everyone knows that you go to dinners with me all the time and you never pay for a dinner.
- [03:22]
Dan Le Batard
He's using you for content. He's using. He's not even paying you. He's making you do the work for his podcast and not even paying you.
- [03:29]
Dominique Foxworth
And then I'm always on the. On the lookout when I'm with Pablo, where he's trying to surreptitiously snap pictures for his goofy Instagram. Little stuff.
- [03:38]
Dan Le Batard
Little stuff.
- [03:40]
Dominique Foxworth
He knows that I know this. He knows that I know this. So he snuck one in and I saw it later. He tagged me.
- [03:46]
Dan Le Batard
No, he does this all the time. No, he's a fame. He goes. He does this all the. Dominique. How many courtside seats have you seen with him and famous people? Because he wants to appear cooler than he is.
- [03:55]
Pablo Torre
For the record, all of the fame is entirely consensual. So I feel like I should start the show with a sports topic. A sports topic that began with a short athletic story, but gave rise to bigger thoughts. And so the title of this article is, what's the best way to deal with Nick Saban's fiery coaching Alabama football players? Explain. And I don't know if you guys saw any of the Alabama Mississippi State game last Saturday. Um, it was generally uninteresting to me, except for the fact that Nick Saban on the sideline was doing stuff like this. You could see if you watch the DraftKings Network or our YouTube channel. He's yelling at everybody. He is yelling at people. He's yelling at his offensive coordinator, Tommy Reese. He's yelling at players like Terry and Arnold, a cornerback. Dominique, a young cornerback who was chewed out very publicly on the sideline. And during halftime, Nick Saban was approached by the ESPN reporter. And at halftime, you know, Alabama had started slow. They got up 31 to 10. And Saban was asked about how this all flipped around. And he said this.
- [05:19]
Dominique Foxworth
What do you think changed in the.
- [05:21]
Dan Le Batard
Flow of that game from sloppiness to.
- [05:23]
Dominique Foxworth
All of a sudden execution?
- [05:24]
Dan Le Batard
You see me get on him over there?
- [05:25]
Dominique Foxworth
Yes, I did.
- [05:26]
Dan Le Batard
Well, maybe that's what changed.
- [05:27]
Dominique Foxworth
I don't know.
- [05:27]
Dan Le Batard
You make that call. Thank you.
- [05:33]
Dominique Foxworth
Oh, he's not wrong.
- [05:35]
Dan Le Batard
Coach Saban got smoke for everybody in that first half.
- [05:40]
Pablo Torre
So all of this made me think about how to be coached, how I want to be coached, how I have been coached, how I would coach and how Dominique Dan is different from us. That part I know. I feel like being an athlete and responding to a Nick Saban. I'm not wired that way and it makes me self conscious about how I should be wired because this did, per Nick Saban's accounting actually work.
- [06:06]
Dominique Foxworth
Well, I mean, accepting Nick Saban's accounting is your first mistake and assuming that all athletes like to and respond to coaching like that is your second mistake. I'm shocked that you didn't show the Trent Dilfer outburst from the weekend where he's flipping out on his coaches also for making a mistake, a substitution mistake or something like that. So I think many athletes respond to that. Many of them don't. It's probably, probably overrepresented in sports, people who can respond to that type of like coaching. But I think a lot of coaches justify it by saying that they're pushing buttons. And I wouldn't say that they're wrong. Like you're pushing different buttons to try to get a reaction out of a player that is potentially not engaged or not focused. So maybe it works sometimes, maybe it doesn't. It's not the way that I feel like I respond. Like I, I think I like retreat back when someone yells at me like that. That doesn't make me want to get more locked in. I think of myself as someone who would rather have a real conversation. Like, I'm not trying to mess up. You screaming at me isn't going to.
- [07:10]
Dan Le Batard
Make me try to Dominique. I think, like I remember the first time I thought about this. It was the very first time I considered it. It was Tom Coughlin during a playoff game. With all the things Tom Coughlin represents. Old military, I'm in charge. These guys can't win unless I toughen them up and show them how to be leaders. And his Field goal kicker had just missed an enormous kick in a playoff game. He felt bad enough, I assure you, without Tom Coughlin coming over and just lighting him up. And I looked at it. I'm like, that's not coaching. That's Tom Coughlin just feeling better about wanting control over things, and he's just feeling rage, and he wants to get it out, and that guy's consuming it. I don't think that you would respond to that. I'm not sure you would want your co. Your children coached that way, that you would want them treated humanely and humanly. But I also think that the ego of the position leads Nick Saban to believe, no, I got the better result because I yelled, because I made that player tougher. And I would say to you, and you can lose them just as quickly that way, because that is not a caring ally that you see now. That's coming up with the Mike McDaniels of the. Of the sport, where they're like, no, how can I be a caretaker and an assistant and an ally and an administrative assistant? How can I be someone who just helps you?
- [08:26]
Dominique Foxworth
The thing is, this is about human psychology is what this question is. And I feel responsible as the football player over here and the most traditionally masculine person in this conversation.
- [08:38]
Dan Le Batard
I've got plenty of Cuban caveman in me.
- [08:42]
Dominique Foxworth
No, no, no, no, no. I got three kids and I play professional football. What about me, guys? I'm here, too. I'm just saying. Come on, get that facial hair together. Pablo, I've been driving as the most traditionally masculine person here. I think we would not be correct. Being traditionally masculine is not a compliment. I said as the most traditionally masculine.
- [09:05]
Pablo Torre
Third eye was closed. It was extremely closed there. This is a compliment. My bad.
- [09:09]
Dominique Foxworth
It is a compliment. Being. I don't consider myself traditionally masculine. Like, I think of myself as a more progressive version of masculinity. But I do believe that some. Someone needs to speak for. I'm certainly generally not a two sides person of the conversation, but I do think there's a reasonable side, a reasonable position on the other side. When we're talking about human psychology, no one really knows how this works. So there are people that I think probably do respond better in certain situations that would make us uncomfortable and we say that we don't. Like. I've had coaches try to get the best out of me when they thought I wasn't focused and try something like that. They noticed that it didn't work, and they don't try it again. But there are players who I see, like, yeah, they turn that energy into something else. And the other defense of them is the Tom Coughlin yelling at the kicker. I think is, yeah, there's no argument for how that's going to help. The kick is already kicked. He didn't do anything wrong. But I do believe in professional sports there is an obligation and a responsibility that you have to each other. So if someone flips out on a player on a pro football team, I would say, don't do that. That's not cool. You're showing them up. But. But if this is a continuation of someone who is not participating in practice, not doing, not paying attention in meetings, and then they make a mistake that's directly tied to that, like, I do think that part of that is letting them know that what you're doing is not just letting you down. Everybody else's money is riding on this, too. Everyone else's reputation is riding on this, too. And maybe you can find a softer way to do it. But I do know, and some of these traditionally masculine scenarios, you're not just coaching to them, that's a performance for everybody else, too. So it's like, you know what, you want to be a mother that doesn't do the. That we expect of you, then we're going to embarrass you here. And not that it's right or wrong, that maybe it doesn't get the best out of that person, but it can be cathartic to everyone else on the team that's looking like, see, that's what happens. That's what he deserves. Otherwise, you get your ass beat in.
- [11:11]
Pablo Torre
The locker room, which happens to be, well, accountability.
- [11:13]
Dan Le Batard
Right?
- [11:13]
Pablo Torre
It's interval, it's interwoven in what Dominique was just describing there. Right? Because you are maintaining this delicate ecosystem, which I think an office also can feel, although in a less traditionally masculine way than a NFL locker room. But I will point out that there's this. I mean, again, to make this to be a classic, untraditionally masculine person, I'll say there is a spectrum to all of this, right? And so there's a spectrum from Trent Dilfer on one end to even Nick Saban somewhere, maybe like, you know, not on the other end, but somewhere in the middle. Because Taron Arnold, the cornerback in question, said post game quote, I feel like I have a relationship with him to where he knows I can take coaching like that. It's hard coaching when you choose to come here. You never know when he could chew you out. But people always say you should be worried when he's not saying something to you. Now, look, in that power dynamic, and we should also distinguish between college and professional. Right? There are, there's a power imbalance inherently. But what I'm hearing is that every coach, every teacher, every parent, every motivator is kind of like a locksmith. And they're trying to figure out, okay, what's the combination to this safe, how do I pick this lock? Even if they don't want to give up the thing inside of them that feels like potential. And I know for me, Dan, this is why I introduced this topic the way I did. I know that the way that I have been motivated, coached, up, elevated, is different from the way that Dominique has explicitly asked from his actual producers doing our, our job in our business. Like I in that way, am objectively softer in a way that's shameful.
- [12:45]
Dan Le Batard
No, no, but the I, I've told the story before of going in to ESPN and the former athletes were amazed, shocked at the insecurity in the room because it gets, it gets weeded out. It cannot be in a locker room. Just simply shocked that anybody would get in their feelings about being yelled at once. But you bring up Nick Saban, and in his defense, Ricky Williams was always an artist trying to work within the restrictions of the army. The only coach who reached him, who pushed the right buttons on a self described weirdo was indeed Nick Saban. Nick Saban found a way to reach. So maybe he does have some secret formula that changes player to player. And it's not always yelling. But my experience with people of Nick Saban's age and success is they are control freaks who, once that ball is put in play, actually have about 10% of the control over what happens. And when they lose or lose publicly, they appear like they want to show others they're in control. When they're college kids, they're going to make mistakes and I, I think they're obsessed with control. I think Nick Saban has been rewarded every turn for that control. And I, I'd ask Dominique, what percentage of coaches do you think really knew and understood the human being well enough to know? No, I can'. Yell at Dominique Foxworth. No, I can't yell at Dominique Foxworth.
- [14:10]
Dominique Foxworth
I think that's their job. I, I think they do know. Um, there's certainly so, like, it's impossible to say. One coach is never actually angry. He's always performing anger. But I think all coaches probably do lose their cool sometimes, and it's a genuine reaction. I also think that all coaches sometimes don't know what else to do. And they're like, all right, maybe I can fire this person up. It's not golf where it's about being incredibly focused and locked, where a spike in your adrenaline is going to be bad. It's football. So it probably does help sometimes to like fire somebody up in whichever way you can. So like, I do find myself defending them in that place. I wouldn't like it. I don't need it. But there's no formula, I don't think. I think the formula that you're looking for is just about care. And the idea that players, some players feel like it's okay when certain coaches yell at them is also how, like I imagine your parents have yelled at you and maybe even hit you growing up. You don't hate your parents. It's because you genuinely believe that they care about you and they want what's.
- [15:19]
Dan Le Batard
That's important though, that trust is hugely important. If someone's yelling, well, do you believe.
- [15:23]
Pablo Torre
That this person has your best interests at heart? Right. Do you believe that they love you? Do you believe that they can be trusted with your actual physical vulnerability as well as emotional vulnerability?
- [15:35]
Dominique Foxworth
And do you believe that you deserve whatever is happening? And now we get into like some sort of victim blaming thing and you can say no one ever deserves to be talked to like that. But if you let your team down an important moment, you deserve something and I don't know what it is. Being yelled at is not the equivalent.
- [15:55]
Pablo Torre
Though of being hit with the, you know, immigrant parents slipper. Right. As. As you are. I don't know. Yeah, exactly. Chancletta flying across the room. The way that an Aaron punt. Would you like that part? It, it does.
- [16:08]
Dominique Foxworth
We. Sorry about that. I thought that, I thought, I thought that we were clear about this is they're different things like dropping a punt, like trying your best and making a mistake. Like the Tom Coughlin thing, a guy missing a kick, that's entirely different thing than doing the wrong thing, like actually not executing. So I, I feel like it's different when. And it's also when it's tied to your preparation.
- [16:31]
Dan Le Batard
We have to do that. We have to have a miss field goal. Tom Coughlin comes on the field and throws a Chancleta at the kicker. That would be so. Than just yelling at. For me, please, please make that a thing.
- [16:43]
Pablo Torre
By the way, the generational distinction here is real, right? Because we're also in 2023 and all of the jokes we've made about the traditional aspect of anything, masculinity and Otherwise.
- [16:53]
Dan Le Batard
Saban's close to 80, right? Saban, where's he going to connect with the 20 year old cornerback? Like maybe, maybe. But that's going to take some work and it's going to take it from somebody who better be hungrier than somebody who's close to 80 and has had a whole lot of success. I work the odds against Nick Saban being able to connect there with every 20 year old.
- [17:12]
Dominique Foxworth
I disagree with you. I think Nick Saban is not just random 80 year old man. Nick Saban is someone who has built up a tremendous amount of respect and cachet and I think Nick Saban has a better chance of connecting with a 20 year old cornerback than frankly I do as a 40 year old former cornerback. I think when you show up there, the relationship dynamics and the value that he offers you is so clear and his track record is so clear that yeah, Nick Saban yelling at me and then I look at the history of players that he's yelled at and what's happened with them. It's a whole different scenario I think. And assuming that throughout the week and throughout the year he's also doing the things, and at least that I've heard from players who play with Nick Saban is that he does for the most part try to do the things he's not. Dabo Sweeney, who says that players don't deserve to get paid. He's at least in last decade or so been someone who said that players should get paid and appears as progressive minded even in the way that he coaches his team and the offensive development like he does seem like someone who adapts. And he's never been the one who's made the huge mistake with the way that he talks to his players or he treats his players.
- [18:28]
Pablo Torre
I do love the idea though of insecure Nick Saban who's like memorizing Lil Yachty lyrics to show up at work the next day.
- [18:37]
Dominique Foxworth
We've seen it. We've seen video of him doing dances in people's living room. That man desperate for a baller just like the rest of them. He will do whatever he can to get your black ass dad scoring touchdowns. He will learn the latest dance and also dap. It's so sad.
- [18:59]
Dan Le Batard
Foreign I wanted to bring you guys an article from gq. Chris Evans is having second thoughts. And below that, below the headline, it says some of the things that the reluctant leading man has been contemplating lately include humanity's tiny place in our vast galaxy, autumn's in New England, whether his dog realizes he's famous and How? Well, maybe being a movie star isn't the best occupation for a guy who's so prone to thinking about absolutely everything. And the reason I wanted to put this in front of you is because I remember when Tyson Fury, who descends from decades of fighting in the street with his relatives, street fighters, bare knuckle fighters, lifetime fighters, he gets to the heavyweight championship, the dream title that any fighter would want, immediately descends into cocaine and gains 100 pounds because what the top looked like, or what he thought it looked like, wasn't how it felt. There was still an emptiness there at arriving at all of his dreams. And emptiness made worse. If you're an overthinker. So I ask you, Dominique, to tell me when you have arrived at something. This happened to me with the sports reporters in Times Square. I thought it was the top of the profession. And then I go in there and it smells like urine from the night before because it's in Times Square, it's at the ESPN Zone, People have vomited.
- [20:23]
Pablo Torre
I love the idea that Dan is relating to Captain America.
- [20:28]
Dan Le Batard
That's right.
- [20:28]
Pablo Torre
Because he hung out with Michael Lupavet.
- [20:30]
Dan Le Batard
That's right. That's correct. Well, that was the top of my dreams. I dreamt smaller. I'm sorry. Not all of us dream as big as you, Pablo. My bad. Not all of us hang out courtside with whatever Glover it is you are hanging out with.
- [20:42]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, Crispin.
- [20:43]
Dan Le Batard
Yeah. No, my dreams were I get to talk about sports on television in Times Square. Why does that table at the center of this, that I learned from how to be a sports writer. Why is it 40 years old and covered in coffee stains? Because this isn't the top of the mountain. At 30 years old, I've arrived in a lonely place that doesn't look exactly like I thought it would look. Look, the top of my profession. Has that ever happened to you, Dominique? Because you've gotten to the top of things.
- [21:08]
Dominique Foxworth
Yeah, I mean, I think. Absolutely. I think there's no top. Is I. I think what I've come to realize and accept is that thinking of it as like one climb and thinking that when you get there that everything's going to be all right is a mistake. And I. I think the way that. One of the most interesting things about this article itself is that Chris Evans just talks about looking at the world differently at different times, which is something that I can relate to. And maybe that means I'm an overthinker or maybe everyone can relate to. It also is there are times when I was at top of the Mountain, so to speak, where I was like, this is awesome. I'm at the top of the mountain and there are times when things weren't that great and I felt good about life. I think it's just the way that you look at the scoreboard and we all try to like, I think we want to make life as simple as movies or make life as simple as a sporting event where it's like, okay, this is the goal. And when we do it that way, we always end up being somewhat unfulfilled because nothing is ever that simple. That's what I found.
- [22:18]
Dan Le Batard
But as a young person though, right, your voice changes because what you think of or how you define success is different. Right? So it does depend on what age you get to it. Like I you getting to the top of football, professional sports had to feel to you like the top or no. Or it was.
- [22:35]
Dominique Foxworth
No, it wasn't. I mean it, it changes because you don't as you. And maybe it's different when it's a quick thing. And because I was so young, it might feel like a quick thing. But I decided I wanted to be a professional football player when I was six. So like by the time I'm 22, that's a long process and that's a lot of commitment, a lot of sacrifices and it's also a lot of learning. I think we've had this conversation before. It's like having it be revealed to me what professional football is was a slow process where I got a better understanding of what was actually happening. And then being a first round number one overall pick, maybe that feels like the mountaintop. Getting your name called in the third round and then going out to Denver and fighting for a job and getting a check that is a respectable check. But it ain't life changing money. It's not. Doesn't feel like the mountaintop. It just feels like you got to a plateau and then it's like, oh, there is an even bigger mountain. And also there's a grizzly bear chasing me because if I don't get to the top of this particular mountain, all the other things that I did leading up to this were mistakes that set me up to like being unsuccessful in life. So like it doesn't feel like a mountaintop to me.
- [23:46]
Pablo Torre
Well, the animal stuff, I want to bring in the part of the story that I related to despite also not being Captain America because Chris Evans is saying some stuff that resonates. He said this. I want to read this quote. It's our self awareness that separates us. But Also what causes our suffering. We think it's what elevates us. I'd say that's actually what makes us inferior. And then he goes on to talk about how he sees his dog. His dog's name is Dodger. And he looks at Dodger and he feels something like envy. Envy because the dog is not self aware. Envy because the dog is ignorant. And in ignorance there is this freedom from caring about the stuff that has to do with being human. Right. Which is to say he is unconcerned. Dodger is with all of the stuff about how people perceive him and the measuring. So the scoreboard idea is seemingly irrelevant in the animal kingdom. It is the part of the story that makes me think I also want to be like Dodger.
- [24:46]
Dan Le Batard
You could have just said ignorance is bliss.
- [24:48]
Dominique Foxworth
Well, there's that.
- [24:50]
Dan Le Batard
If you don't do any thinking, there's no self loathing. Like there's no room if you're not doing any judgment of yourself. Animals do not do self loathing. They don't castigate themselves with not forgiving themselves on.
- [25:00]
Pablo Torre
There is no aphorism that I am less likely to accept. Ignorance is bliss runs counter to everything I have wired in me and that I aspired to enlightenment and awareness. Self awareness specifically. I will talk to you endlessly about how it's a virtue. How the people who are both aware of the problem.
- [25:20]
Dan Le Batard
No, but both of you, I would think, suffer from this same affliction. I think I may have this wrong because I suffer from it. The illusion of control that the comfort of my mind allows me is just an illusion of control. I trust my mind implicitly. I've only recently learned that trusting the heart is something that matters a lot more. I thought because my mind did not bring me ultimate happiness, it did not. It brought me the illusion of control and nothing else. Like it's a poison as much as it is a blessing. Your mind depending on how you, how it treats you.
- [25:53]
Dominique Foxworth
Yeah, I mean, I think that the, the way the aphorism that I would use is nothing in life is free. And I would use that because I believe that the mind, all the bad things that come with it, there's an equal and opposite, like reward. So while, yes, the dog can never be like self aware and feel all the insecurities and challenges that we may feel as a result of the self awareness, but he can also never feel the level joy and fulfillment that we feel.
- [26:23]
Dan Le Batard
Also he can lick his balls and he can feel plenty of enjoyment and he can do all sorts of things that seem to make him plenty happy.
- [26:30]
Dominique Foxworth
In ways I've never been happy, which is all physical. And I think that they don't have access to something that we have access to. So I get Chris Evans's point and your point that sometimes when I'm stressed about my kids future or when I'm stressed about how we're gonna be able to do this next thing or how I'm gonna be able to make enough fit fit in all the podcasts I got to record for my friends. And otherwise it's just nice to be like, oh man, you know what? I'm just gonna be a cat. Go eat. It's so lick and chill.
- [27:06]
Dan Le Batard
It's so interesting, man. You Pablo. I'm sorry to interrupt you, Dominique, but one of the reasons that I think you're so much.
- [27:13]
Dominique Foxworth
I trust your judgment. You interrupted me.
- [27:14]
Dan Le Batard
It means I was going through. Well, no, I'm only doing it because something you said was so fascinating to me about how much tougher you are than we are in every way. If the mountaintop is not third round pick getting to the pros because you have to live your life of, oh, there are carnivores out here trying to take my family's money if I don't stay in this league, like, of course you're going to be tougher than us. Like, I don't know what it's like to be competitive like that for dollars.
- [27:39]
Pablo Torre
But hold on. I think part of the underlying through line here, which I see Dominique generously providing here, is that we're all impressed by the thing we didn't do. So like you, Dan fetishized Dominique's life because he is football guy. Chris Evans fetishizes in this article, the guy doing pottery, listening to music, unstressed by the stresses of Hollywood. And me too, I am also now clearly fetishizing a dog.
- [28:11]
Dominique Foxworth
And I mean, I think most people fetishize Chris Evans life. And I think as an athlete that's something that I'm familiar with. It is kind of annoying, which I imagine Chris Evans as straight white male, Captain America superstar, lead actor, millionaire. Yeah. Most people are like, yeah, give me that life. And he. I'm sure lots of people who read this article were probably turned off by that. Absolutely no one wants to hear that Chris Evans has stress in the article. He's like, I try to make a movie a year, then my beautiful wife and I around, but I wish I was a dog. You want to be a dog? Do the rest of us want to be?
- [28:48]
Dan Le Batard
Can you imagine though? I like this so Much more. Not as the actor, but as the actual Captain America, the glum superhero, just burdened with. Do you know how much responsibility it is to be superhuman? I want to put him in the costume and have Captain America hate himself so much that he wants to be the dog, that he doesn't want to be superhuman or human.
- [29:10]
Dominique Foxworth
Yeah, I mean, Captain America is the perfect analogy for this, because it is. And I guess maybe Spider man is even better because it is like the idea of great power, great responsibility, and that responsibility is hard. And I. The thing that I think about often when I get the idea. So people know, like, I'm a professional athlete and know that I do, like, a pretty fun job now and get paid enough money and they're jealous of me and say things that are like, I'm not allowed to complain. Or you hear it about athletes all the time, like, oh, you get paid so much money, whatever. And I hear Dan defending them, but I never really bring this up, but it always crosses my mind that it's just about who you compare yourself to. Because the distance between superstar athlete or Chris Evans in the average American person is probably similar to the distance between average American person and poor person who does not live in the western part of the. Or the western hemisphere. So, like, it is all about making comparisons, which is why, I guess Pablo just wants to be a dog. Because they aren't smart enough to make comparisons. They're just happy because they got a meal and Dan made some weird.
- [30:14]
Dan Le Batard
But I'm not, I'm not fetishizing, though, the idea that you, at one point, at one point you were earning money for playing sports. Like that was the goal. Like, that you arrived that you couldn't enjoy it because there was too much, there were too many bears chasing you. Doesn't change the fact it's not. You did the hardest thing, Dominique. You did the hardest thing, right?
- [30:36]
Dominique Foxworth
And then the hardest, hardest thing was actually getting to the second contract. That was the one that. That was the time when I was like, oh, and it wasn't like joy, it was more like relief. Was you had. I had to get to that second contract.
- [30:49]
Dan Le Batard
People don't understand that about athletes, Dominique, that, that, that you're playing a game for a living, you're making a lot of money, and you don't get to joy until it feels like relief. Because now the burden of the expectations of my body needs to make me money for a long time to feed a lot of people. Like, that's a burden nobody actually wants.
- [31:07]
Dominique Foxworth
And the, the, the point that I wanted to. That I tried to make at the beginning of this is. It depends on how I'm looking at it. Because I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy being in the NFL at any point. I didn't enjoy playing. I didn't enjoy the things that come along with it. And I didn't at any moment in that time. There were several times in there before the second contract, and even in college and even in high school where I was like, God damn, this is great. This is awesome. This is awesome. But then those are, like, fleeting moments. They're like pieces of candy. Whereas during a normal day, it's. It's the stresses that come along with it. And that candy is never enough, I think, is a better way to explain it. Because I don't. I don't want people to think that I was just walking around moping, like, man, I gotta make this team. I gotta get a second contract.
- [31:54]
Pablo Torre
No, this is part of what Dominique is. What. It's a great point. It's part of what Chris Evans is trying to say. And I hate that I am referring to Chris Evans as if he's Nietzsche or anything, but he pointed out that when he thinks small, when he thinks about the thing in front of him, he suffers. When he looks at himself or his life under a microscope, as you just described an athlete doing it is suffering. But when you think bigger, when you try to truly abstract yourself and sort of put yourself into perspective, you talked about comparisons. Compare yourself to the galaxy, compare yourself to the sweep of human history, and at that point you'll realize that, okay, nothing here matters. And in that knowledge, which I think in some ways is the opposite of ignorance, but in the true knowledge of how small we are, because everything else is so big, maybe there is actually some sort of relief.
- [32:44]
Dominique Foxworth
Yeah, I mean, I think that some of that comes with age and experience, but it also comes with. As I was reading this article, I was waiting for the drug reference. He got to it in the last paragraph or so, like, oh, yeah, and Chris Evans smokes a lot of weed. But sometimes that does allow people to open their mind up to see the things that. That they otherwise wouldn't see. But the funny thing is, your point you're making in a much more verbose way than necessary is, that's so true. You can get so smart that you get to the simple place, or you could be so, like, dumb as a dog that you're in the simple place. The point is, we all want to get to the simple place.
- [33:18]
Dan Le Batard
That's right. Just ignorance is bliss. Licking your balls.
- [33:20]
Pablo Torre
I think we can all agree that we have proven in this segment.
- [33:22]
Dominique Foxworth
I take it back. Hold on.
- [33:24]
Dan Le Batard
I'm sorry.
- [33:24]
Dominique Foxworth
I'm sorry. Before you close it out, as you always most wonderfully do, because I do miss that about. I do want to point out that I. Hold on one thing. I am no longer the most traditionally masculine person here. It's definitely Dan, because all he really wants is his ball slicks.
- [33:40]
Dan Le Batard
That's right.
- [33:40]
Dominique Foxworth
Nothing gets more traditionally masculine than that.
- [33:42]
Dan Le Batard
There you go. I was threatened by your traditional masculine.
- [33:46]
Pablo Torre
And anybody who thinks that we humans cannot lick our own balls. Replay this segment.
- [33:53]
Dominique Foxworth
Replay this segment.
- [33:55]
Dan Le Batard
I love.
- [33:56]
Dominique Foxworth
I love working with you because I do believe that you do a great job of tying things together. But as we also established in this segment, there's a price for everything. And the price that I have to pay when I work with you is sometime you're gonna make some weird sex stuff weirder. I still work for espn, guys, just so you know. Maybe you mother say whatever you want, but I still work for Disney. So can we chill? All right, so the article that I'm bringing is a Hollywood Reporter article about. It's kind of a short article based on Idris Alba doing a podcast where he talked about his workaholic nature and how it, like, infests his life in a great deal.
- [34:48]
Unidentified Speaker
In my therapy, I've been thinking a lot about changing almost to the point of neuro. Neuropaths being changed and shifting. And it's not because I don't like myself or anything like that. It's just that I have some unhealthy habits that have just really formed, and they, you know, I work in an industry that I'm rewarded for those unhealthy habits. I'm rewarded for that. You know, whether it's to be selfish or to be. I'm a workaholic. I'm an absolute workaholic. And that isn't great for life generally.
- [35:28]
Dominique Foxworth
Honestly, this was a reverse search. I wanted to talk about something, and I found any article that was loosely tangential to my feelings about it.
- [35:39]
Dan Le Batard
The opposite of reporting. A reporter goes in, it doesn't know what his story is. Well, you said you. You said that you want to talk about something, and you loosely tied it to an article to keep it to the flimsy conceit of, we're bringing something here. But it's really just Dominique now wants to talk about something.
- [35:54]
Dominique Foxworth
I'm bringing something here. I'm bringing beef. That's what I'M bringing here. Here we go. I'm bringing beef with people who are my friends, but Pablo specifically has been infected with content brain, and it's ridiculous. The thing is, the workaholic nature of Pablo and many people like him is weird because being a workaholic, as Idris Alba puts it, and he's an actor is one thing, and it's dangerous for him to go and leave his family and go work on a movie and develop a whole brand new family and then cut it off and then go back to be with your family. Like, I understand that in general, traditional workaholics, I can understand how it could be detrimental on your life in ways that aren't connected to your job. But what I've found with some of my friends, Pablo specifically, is that it's so detrimental to your life that it infects the way that you treat everybody and the relationships you have with people. Where Pablo and I used to talk, we used to text, and the only time I hear from Pablo is him trying to get me on this stupid ass show. By the way, I got a stupid ass show too. We gonna promote that. You ever been on my stupid ass show? No. Let's preserve our relationship.
- [37:00]
Dan Le Batard
I do some of the same. I've done some of the same things to you. Dominique has dragged me back a couple of times where he's like, hey, you.
- [37:07]
Dominique Foxworth
Should hate it, though.
- [37:08]
Dan Le Batard
Can we just be friends? Well, wait a min.
- [37:10]
Pablo Torre
Finally, it saves me the step.
- [37:12]
Dan Le Batard
Yes, it's not fair. It's not fair to Dominique. But what has happened here, and I think this is super interesting, and you will recognize it. Pablo sees in front of him an opportunity of a lifetime to make something specifically tailored to his life specifications as a career in his voice and personality for the rest of his life to raise Violet and to. And to give a great life to his family. And the obsession of the opportunity, you're gonna say, is a lack of balance that makes him, you know, rationalize that he's buried in work and not tending to things at home that a workaholic has to also pay attention to. But I recognize it, because what's funny about, not only do I recognize it, I'm actually proud of part of lopsided Pablo because he used to be lazy. I saw when he was lazy. I saw when he didn't care about something, that it was his own, that he was fooling around on television and it was easy for him as cotton candy. I saw when he wasn't making his own thing, how he. He could be your friend. In a way that wasn't worried about the content, but now he's got his own risk, his own opportunity, his own grown up responsibilities. And so it becomes an obsession because it has to succeed.
- [38:25]
Pablo Torre
So for just hold on, hold on. Hold the upper.
- [38:29]
Dominique Foxworth
No, I just. No, no, no, no.
- [38:31]
Pablo Torre
You hold.
- [38:33]
Dominique Foxworth
That. This is digital. I'll see you again. I'll see you again. So let my traditional masculinity step you down. I'm just going to make a question, try to improve your show. All right?
- [38:43]
Dan Le Batard
Write down what you were going to say and let him be the Al.
- [38:45]
Pablo Torre
Let me take out my notebook.
- [38:47]
Dominique Foxworth
Am I. Am I the devil on your shoulder or the angel on your should? You're stealing my point, Dan is definitely.
- [38:53]
Pablo Torre
Dominique and I unfortunately stealing it.
- [38:55]
Dominique Foxworth
I did it better.
- [38:56]
Pablo Torre
I have like a, a double entendre metaphor here because what you just did was obviously sync your content brain, which you deny having, with my content brain, which wanted to point out that if you're watching this on the DraftKings network or on my YouTube channel, Pablo Torre finds out.
- [39:12]
Dominique Foxworth
No, my show, Dominique Foxor show, we're on YouTube at ESPN. Also follow my podcast.
- [39:18]
Pablo Torre
On the One show, you know what's wrong. On the one shoulder is Dominique Foxworth, alleged angel. And on the other side is Dan Lebatard, the content brained devil, who is texting me encouragement because he sees how obsessed I am with making my show better.
- [39:34]
Dominique Foxworth
Don't animate this. You better not animate this shit.
- [39:37]
Pablo Torre
And my point about Dominique and the merging of our content brains is that there is nothing more content brain than turning content brain into content. That is what you, sir, have done here today.
- [39:50]
Dominique Foxworth
And so this is what, this was your big get? You knew I was going to bring a content brand. You just couldn't wait to try to act like you turned it on me. You didn't.
- [39:56]
Pablo Torre
No, what I'm saying is that you have content brain aspirations and you're afraid I don't give in. I don't afraid to give in. Dominique, he's afraid to give in.
- [40:05]
Dominique Foxworth
I'm not afraid to give in. I'm not afraid to give in.
- [40:07]
Dan Le Batard
Well, this is interesting. Let me, let me start, if I may, Alpha, if I may. Just proceed, sir, from over here. I do believe Dominique has an incredible life balance. He is good about putting his priorities where they belong. And when he needs to be present.
- [40:21]
Dominique Foxworth
To the shot, get to the inside.
- [40:24]
Dan Le Batard
When he needs to be present, he is present. However, I believe that notebook would reveal evidence of content brain. I believe that that notebook is you carrying around ideas for what you want to do that might come to you in a moment. Why are you carrying around that notebook?
- [40:43]
Dominique Foxworth
Because I need to write down notes. It's not about the show. It's not content brain. It has nothing to do with any of that. You wish that you had a gotcha moment, but it's not a big G product moment yet.
- [40:56]
Pablo Torre
I just. No, Domin, this is. This is what we're dealing with. Is Dominique trying to have it both ways?
- [41:04]
Dominique Foxworth
I'm not.
- [41:05]
Pablo Torre
And I'm just telling you. I'm just telling you as. As. As your friend who will admit that I've been a worse friend because I've been afflicted with late onset content brain. Is that. That I have noticed that you want to do some stuff in the world of writing, in the world of media, in the world of entertainment, that is wildly ambitious.
- [41:30]
Dominique Foxworth
And don't say I want to do stuff like, I don't get that done. He's doing it.
- [41:35]
Pablo Torre
I do.
- [41:35]
Dan Le Batard
He's doing it.
- [41:36]
Dominique Foxworth
Everything I want to do, it gets done.
- [41:38]
Pablo Torre
All right?
- [41:38]
Dan Le Batard
He's doing it right now.
- [41:39]
Dominique Foxworth
Proper respect. Go ahead.
- [41:41]
Pablo Torre
But this is my point. Is that what you see as content brain is my evolutionary adaptation to try and get stuff done. And you're doing it in a way that is, I think, in this way, it is less honest than Guy who is worse at texting now because you're.
- [42:01]
Dominique Foxworth
In the shadows doing stuff, you know, dishonest. The point that I am making to you, Pablo, and the reason why I yell at you and even Dan sometimes too, about the content brain, is not because I think that it is all bad, because I do believe nothing is all bad and nothing is all good. The fact of the matter is you're lying to yourself and you're trying to justify it and pretending like you're not aware that there is a cost for it. You're not going to lose me as a friend. I'm going to be your friend. But be honest with what you're doing, you are paying a price too. That's all I want you to know.
- [42:34]
Dan Le Batard
I also think, though I think if I can, and he's not going to let me have this one either. I do believe, though, that Dominique thinks himself, and rightly, in most, so singularly unique that nothing would afflict him exactly the same way it afflicts you and me, Pablo, that he would. He would be a puppet.
- [42:53]
Pablo Torre
Dan, how is it that you fall for this handsome?
- [42:56]
Dominique Foxworth
Oh, he didn't say that. You're such a bad listener. He said that's what Dominique wants him to think. He's not saying that. He thinks that also. Shut up, host man, and let the man talk. Proceed, Dan.
- [43:05]
Dan Le Batard
Yeah, I just. I believe that he thinks himself so unique. And I've seen a lot of evidence of him actually being balanced, actually having his priorities in order, actually measuring success different than other workaholics I have met. He wants to succeed. He wants to achieve. He's confident he can do those things. And he is doing those things. I just think he wants you to think, and us to think that he comes by that as easily as he did his Harvard business degree and cornerback in the NFL. That it was effortless for him. It was not an addiction. It was a choice. Because this man is so alpha, he is not controlled by any of his addictions.
- [43:39]
Pablo Torre
There it is.
- [43:39]
Dominique Foxworth
Don't forget that I've written on scripted television shows, too.
- [43:43]
Pablo Torre
All that's what I was referring to.
- [43:46]
Dan Le Batard
That's the key to being cool. That's why we'll never be cool, because we can't. We can't be. We can't be as confident as you. It's just not. It's not possible.
- [43:57]
Dominique Foxworth
It's not that. So I recognize if we're going to be honest here, and I'll. I'll drop the. The alpha man performance for you. Yeah, I've come to a different place than you. It may not be a better place, but what happened was I had made enough money, and it's like a retirement age experience that I was fortunate enough to have in my late 20s that most people never have or don't have till late in life. I imagine that before Dan started this company where he also, along with the pressure of having a successful company carries with it the pressure of succeeding for your friends because they don't have the security that Dan has. I imagine that if Dan had met Valerie and been all comfortable and happy in his life when he had money and did not have all these pressures, I imagine Dan would have come to a similar place as I have come. But I was fortunate enough to be able to take a second. When I was 29 and I quit at the NBA Players Association, I looked at my bank account and was like, that's enough money. How do I want the rest of my life to be? And I looked around and my wife had a bunch of lifelong friends, and I ain't have none. That's what it came to. And I was like, all right, let's see what I actually care about. So that deathbed moment that lots of people have or you talk about having. Where you start assessing things. I did it at 29 and I was like, all right, when I'm 80, well, probably more like 72, I'm a black man. As we've established, life expectancy very low. When I am 72 and I am dying of heart disease or hypertension or just general racism, then I will be like, hey, what did I do with the last 50 years of my life? When I had an opportunity to fill my life with things that are gonna be rewarding, I kept chasing this bull that doesn't matter. And all I'm saying to you, Pablo, is I want you to be aware of it. I'm not expecting you to be. To change. And that your financial situation and your position in life is all very different. But just be aware of what you're doing, the decisions you are making. And when you make it to what, 80, 85, 90, then you can look back and say, thanks, Dominique, for snapping me out of that. I gotta go pick up my son.
- [46:02]
Pablo Torre
From at the very end here, Dan. We're going to do a very unique finish to the show because Dominique Foxworth is gone and we are left to hear his echoing words of wisdom. And at the end, I am curious if you found out anything big picture, because what I found out, truly, is that I do need to text Dominique more. I have been about that.
- [46:39]
Dan Le Batard
He's just exposed you as a shitty friend on your own podcast, which is masterwork.
- [46:43]
Pablo Torre
I found out in ways that are making me genuinely uncomfortable.
- [46:48]
Dan Le Batard
But in all seriousness, seriousness, though, Pablo, in terms of what kind of friend he aspires to be and wants us to be because he has learned some of the important things that need to be learned in life. He has been hugely helpful throughout the last couple of months, reaching out only and exclusively to be a friend because he knows I am in pain and he knows what the important things are after the loss of my brother and won't let me talk, will not let me get to the business stuff because he's forcing me to sit in the friendship. I remember the first time, the first day I spent any time with Dominique. He was putting on a backpack as he was leaving my apartment and he said to me, and when do I get to help you? You know, he had just started, highly questionable. He's like, when do I get to start helping you? And ever since then, it's all he's been doing. Like he lives his life in the right space there. Eager, Eager to be a and loving friend.
- [47:41]
Pablo Torre
Yes, he is in that way, far more advanced Than we are. We. We. We sat down after. After your brother passed away, Dan, and you brought in to the office a bottle of tequila, four glasses, with the intent of let's. Let's do a show. Let's make this content. Let's make your grief content, because that is your safe space. That's your comfort zone. And I, in my content brain, was down for it. I was like, yeah, I think that would be good. I think we can get to some places, as you suspect, that would be real. And. And genuinely, I still like to do that.
- [48:14]
Dan Le Batard
I'd still like to do that. I'd like to explore. I've been isolating from. I've been isolating from people because I don't want to do that. I'm scared to do it. Like, I don't even the people who care about me.
- [48:24]
Pablo Torre
Right? And I get it. And I would listen to that. I would participate and I would listen. But Dominique was the one at that table who said, we are not turning on a microphone right now. And we sat there and we talked, and it was an amazing afternoon that I am now betraying for content reasons on public well.
- [48:42]
Dan Le Batard
And you're denying them the actual content because it would have been good content. Like that conversation. People would have wanted to hear that conversation.
- [48:48]
Pablo Torre
Please, please like and subscribe. We're all sickos is what was just informed in my ear. You know, we talk about love languages a lot in the world of relationships, and that was our love language, believe it or not. Me, Dan, Dominique, loving each other by sounding like, maybe we don't love each other, but that's because we just love each other that much. So until next time, Pablo Torre finds out is produced entirely to spite David Sampson, basically. And the people spiting him are Michael Antonucci, Ryan Corte, Cortez, Sam Dawig, Patrick Kim, Neely Loman, Rachel Miller, Howard Carl Scott, Ethan Schreier, Matt Sullivan, Chris Tominello Studio engineering by Viridian Tech Post Production by NGW Post and our theme song by John Bravo and I'll talk to you SA.