Ballmer's Tree-Money, the Whistle-Blowers and the Document You've Been Waiting For: Kawhi-Gate, Part IX

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: Ballmer's Tree-Money, the Whistle-Blowers and the Document You've Been Waiting For: Kawhi-Gate, Part IX
Date: March 7, 2026
Host: Pablo Torre (The Athletic)
Guests: David Samson (Nothing Personal podcast), Amin Alhassan (Meadowlark Media), Live from MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

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Main Theme & Episode Overview

In "Kawhi-Gate, Part IX," Pablo Torre continues his ongoing investigative series into the Los Angeles Clippers, owner Steve Ballmer, and a complex, alleged scheme to circumvent the NBA salary cap using a bankrupt fintech startup called Aspiration. This "talkumentary" episode, recorded live at the 20th annual Sloan Sports Analytics Conference, pivots on a newly obtained government whistleblower complaint that provides what Torre calls the "smoking gun" linking Clippers' money, carbon credits, and payments to Kawhi Leonard via Aspiration.

[05:58, Pablo Torre]: "We are doing part nine of our investigation into Steve Ballmer and the Clippers... How exactly did tens of millions of dollars travel from the Clippers bank account to Aspirations bank account in order to pay Kawhi Leonard?"

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene at Sloan Conference

• Torre introduces his guests and the context—an audience of sports business leaders at the Sloan Conference (03:09–08:52).
• Amin recalls pandemic-era elbow bumps (06:34), and the group jokes about the gravity of the room, previously occupied by NBA Commissioner Adam Silver.

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2. The Allegation: Alleged Salary Cap Circumvention via Aspiration

• Recap of prior reporting: Aspiration, a "bankrupt tree-planting fintech company," is under federal investigation (08:52–13:41).
• Torre highlights evidence suggesting tens of millions flowed from the Clippers to Aspiration, and then to Kawhi Leonard, allegedly to circumvent the salary cap:
  • Ballmer invested $50M in Aspiration in 2021.
  • Leonard's secret endorsement deal: $48M, including $28M cash & $20M equity.
  • Notable: Clippers co-owner Dennis Wong funneled $2M to Aspiration, which then promptly wired $1.75M to Kawhi Leonard's LLC (13:41).
• First major quote:

  [08:08, Amin Alhassan]: "If you listen to [Silver], he says he's not doing [a punishment]. He's waiting for Wachtel Lipton to complete their investigation."

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3. Following the Money: Tree Credits & Escrow Details

• April 4, 2022: The day key contracts are signed and the Clippers wire $32,442,080 to Aspiration, purportedly for carbon credits (14:45).
• Discussion of “organic marketing deals” and a carbon offset transfer between the Clippers and Aspiration (19:31–23:35).
• The timeline matches up so that the money is available just in time for Kawhi's first $1.75M quarterly ‘endorsement’ payment—wired on June 30, 2022.

  [19:55, David Samson]: “The first [Kawhi Leonard] payment shall be paid on June 30, 2022. All payments will be wire transferred to KL2’s accounts.”

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Mark Cuban’s Theory on Tree Credits

• Mark Cuban's (or maybe ChatGPT's) public defense: If the scheme was cap circumvention, they could have just bought more carbon credits, since those credits offered huge margins (15:42).

  [15:42, Read by Amin Alhassan]: “...while Pablo is focusing on the $2 million and the $50 million from Wong Ballmer, he didn’t really get into the millions... in carbon credits... [which] would have created the cash immediately to pay KL2...”

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Aspiration's Priorities When Bankrupt

• By November 2022, Aspiration was cutting all marketing deals—except two: the main Clippers sponsorship and the secret Kawhi contract (25:22).

  [25:22, Pablo Torre]: “KL2 Aspire LLC, which was never announced publicly, was retained. The other one happens to be the $300 million Clippers founding sponsorship agreement…”

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4. Skepticism About NBA's Internal Investigation

• Wachtel Lipton is described as deeply conflicted: the league selects and pays the investigators, and Ballmer/the Clippers foot the actual bill (29:26, 36:49).
• Multiple Aspiration whistleblowers—critical sources—reported the NBA’s investigators never asked them about Ballmer himself (31:10).
• Discusses whether the NBA (and Adam Silver) truly want to discover/punish misconduct by one of its richest owners:

  [35:41, David Samson]: “...the way it works is you are the client. And...lawyers work for their clients...they want to know, what do you want? Because how else do they deliver it?”

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5. Revelation: The Government Whistleblower Document

Document Discovery Segment

• In an Oprah-esque surprise, Pablo has a real, authenticated copy of the SEC whistleblower complaint taped under the guests’ chairs (41:10).

  [42:31, Pablo Torre]: “What you are holding in your hands is an authenticated copy of a government whistleblower complaint. This is at long last...the whistleblower complaint that directly led to the federal investigation into Aspiration...”

• The document details:

  • Two Aspiration employees submitted it, with statements given under penalty of perjury.
  • Specifically outlines that Aspiration used Clippers’ carbon credit money to pay Kawhi, disguised as an endorsement “organic marketing” deal, and explicitly calls it salary cap circumvention.

• Key Section Read Out Loud:

  [49:44, Amin Alhassan]:
  “Other examples of Aspiration’s fraud:
  A Los Angeles Clippers $32 million escrow account...Aspiration used only 1.4 million to purchase carbon credits...and even to pay Clippers forward Kawhi Leonard an incentivized bonus to circumvent the NBA’s salary cap disguised as an organic marketing sponsorship agreement. That’s a smoking gun, ladies and gentlemen.”

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Implications & Consequences

• Torre: “This is the documented answer. Okay. It’s corroborating everything else we’ve previously reported” (50:58).
• The investigation originally focused on broader fraud, not just cap circumvention—the latter is not illegal, but is grounds for NBA sanction.
• NBA’s lack of interest in probing Ballmer directly is called out as a conflict of interest and a risk to competitive balance and league credibility.

  [53:33, David Samson]: “…if this salary cap circumvention is happening, and there’s no punishment…other teams and other owners…are just despondent because…why would you—the whole purpose of getting a cap…is to not do this.”

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6. Audience Participation & Final Reveal

• Members of the audience also receive under-the-chair “secret document” envelopes as a dramatic, participatory coda (54:44).
• The evidence—now in audience hands—demonstrates “all the proof that anybody needs to know that this story is real” (55:16).

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Notable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• [08:08, Amin Alhassan]: “If you listen to him, he says he’s not doing that. He’s waiting for Wachtel Lipton to complete their investigation...”
• [15:42, Read by Amin Alhassan]: “While Pablo is focusing on the $2 million and the $50 million from Wong Ballmer, he didn’t really get into the millions... in carbon credits...”
• [19:55, David Samson]: “The first [Kawhi Leonard] payment shall be paid on June 30, 2022. All payments will be wire transferred to KL2’s accounts.”
• [31:10, Read by Amin Alhassan - from The Athletic]: “Some interviewed by Wachtel during its investigation...said that they were not asked about Ballmer, end quote.”
• [35:41, David Samson]: “…the way it works is you are the client. And...lawyers work for their clients...they want to know, what do you want? Because how else do they deliver it?”
• [42:31, Pablo Torre]: "This is the whistleblower complaint that directly led to the federal investigation into Aspiration and the subsequent convictions of Aspiration co founder Joe Sandberg..."
• [49:44, Amin Alhassan]: “...even to pay Clippers forward Kawhi Leonard an incentivized bonus to circumvent the NBA's salary cap disguised as an organic marketing sponsorship agreement. That's a smoking gun, ladies and gentlemen.”
• [53:33, David Samson]: "If this salary cap circumvention is happening...and there's no punishment...you're going to have other teams and other owners who are just despondent..."
• [54:28, Pablo Torre]: "The question, though is who cares? Right? Like, does the care? Does our audience care? Do the people at home care?..."

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Segment Timeline

• 03:09–08:52: Sloan Conference intro, guests’ banter, stakes of the room
• 08:52–13:41: Recap of Ballmer/Aspiration/Kawhi scheming, whistleblower rumors
• 13:41–19:31: Tracing the money, secret contracts, questionable $2M transaction
• 19:31–23:35: Timeline aligns for carbon money and Kawhi’s endorsement payment
• 23:35–25:22: Aspiration goes bankrupt—keeps only Clippers and Kawhi contracts
• 29:26–35:41: NBA's investigation, Wachtel Lipton's conflicts, skepticism about league's intent
• 41:10–42:31: Pablo “Oprahs” the whistleblower doc reveal under the chairs
• 42:31–53:56: Reading key whistleblower excerpts, implications, systemic issues
• 54:44–55:16: Audience participation; secret documents for attendees

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Tone & Style

• Playful and irreverent banter throughout (with inside jokes and voice impressions), but grounded by dogged investigative tone and painstaking adherence to journalistic process.
• Pablo Torre’s style weaves live reporting, audience engagement, and big-picture context with a mix of skepticism and showmanship.
• The episode is a blend of humor, live showmanship, and serious investigative storytelling.

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Takeaways

• A whistleblower complaint filed with the SEC—predating Torre’s reporting—is corroborated and now in the public record, stating unequivocally that Aspiration’s “tree-money” was used to pay Kawhi Leonard, allegedly to circumvent the NBA salary cap.
• The NBA’s internal probe, run by Wachtel Lipton (and paid by Ballmer himself), is viewed with skepticism by insiders, especially given the firm’s questions avoiding direct inquiry into Ballmer.
• Journalistic evidence, now including sworn government documentation, makes the scheme’s outlines clear, raising questions of league integrity, investigative independence, and competitive fairness.

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Useful for Audiences

For anyone following sports business, NBA insider politics, or the intersection of finance and athletics, this episode provides the clearest, most detailed public account yet of the alleged "Kawhi-Gate" cap circumvention plot. The timeline is unambiguous; documentation now exists; and the unanswered question—what will the NBA actually do about its richest owner—looms larger than ever.

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Listen for:

• Document-based reporting building to a dramatic reveal.
• Rare inside look at how sports organizations, sponsors, and whistleblowers interact.
• A masterclass in making financial arcana lively, memorable, and meaningful.

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Note: Advertisements and non-content segments have been omitted.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. Presented by Ebay Live, I am Pablo Torre, and today you're going to find out what this sound is, even to

[Amin Alhassan]

pay Clippers forward Kawhi Leonard an incentivized bonus to circumvent the NBA salary cap, disguised as an organic marketing sponsorship agreement. That's a smoking gun, ladies and gentlemen.

[Pablo Torre]

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[Pablo Torre]

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Hello everyone.

[Drew Sullivan]

My name is Drew Sullivan. I'm a first year MBA here at MIT Sloan. It's my pleasure to bring you our first edition of Pablo Torre Finds Out Live at the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference. Today we'll be joined by David Sampson, host of Nothing Personal with David Sampson, Amin Alhassan, NBA analyst and commentator of Meadowlark Media and Sirius XM Radio, and of course, Pablo Torre, the host of Pablo Torre Finds Out. This episode will run for 45 minutes. Please note that we will not have time for Q and A at the end of the episode. With that in mind, I'll turn it over to you, Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

Thank you, Actual Naval intelligence officer. I've always wanted to have David and Amin do a live show with me in a room named after a guy who has blocked me on Twitter. Oh, shout out to the Godfather. Sabermetrics. Bill James actually has blocked me on Twitter.

[Amin Alhassan]

What'd you do?

[Pablo Torre]

That investigation is also ongoing. I don't know. Maybe one of you guys can be a source for us on that. I have folders. I have folders for David and Amin. I want to be very clear about something to everybody who's in the audience here. Everyone who's watching live on YouTube, I am told. Put some hamburgers in the chat. If you're in the YouTube chat, Pablo Torre finds out. You guys know exactly as much as David and Amin about what's about to happen here. And here are some folders that, as always, I will tell you to not open. David, do you have your little glasses?

[David Samson]

I do. Pablo, thank you so much.

[Pablo Torre]

Very good. David has eye problems because he's been reading so many documents. He's just old.

[David Samson]

It's not a problem.

[Amin Alhassan]

Well, it's a reality.

[David Samson]

It's a reality.

[Pablo Torre]

With that attitude, I suppose the only

[David Samson]

guy with 2.0s in the room. Give me a break. Sorry.

[Amin Alhassan]

He's in a bad mood. I'm not sorry.

[David Samson]

Schlep us up to Boston.

[Pablo Torre]

I came here.

[David Samson]

You want to tell us what it's about?

[Pablo Torre]

I wanted to come here and be Oprah, you know, and you got a secret document and you get a secret document. And David is just, just.

[Amin Alhassan]

He's over it, I think.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, man. Steadmaning this thing, Oprah. Deep cut. It is deep. It is. It is something that I want to take seriously here to transition to actually doing a bit of reporting. There is new and extremely credible evidence that here to discuss. And I also need to disclose for the record that Daryl Morey, who is the president of basketball operations of the Philadelphia 76ers and the CO founder of this conference, also has no idea what we're about to do here.

[David Samson]

He mentioned that prior to the show.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. He did not realize to the point

[Amin Alhassan]

where he's not here, he's next door.

[Pablo Torre]

He's going head to head with us, which is for the best because we are doing part nine of our investigation into Steve Ballmer and the Clippers. And so a little less light in the applause the next time. But you guys are absolutely right there with us. This is the 20th anniversary of this conference, which is absurd. I mean, for people who've not been here, who are just watching, perhaps at home, can you give a sense of the caliber of power broker that we are actually in good company with?

[Amin Alhassan]

So I haven't been here since 2020. The last time I was here, they were telling us, hey, by the way, you might have to start shaking hands with your elbows. And that was for real. We thought, like, oh, no, we'll be fine. Just you gotta elbow bump people, and we'll be fine. Later that night, I went to Celtics Jazz and I dapped up Rudy Gobert. Like, massive hug and everything. Swear to God.

[Pablo Torre]

This all makes sense now in retrospect.

[Amin Alhassan]

I was patient zero, but never tested positive, though. That's my claim.

[Pablo Torre]

Great.

[Amin Alhassan]

But yeah, no, this thing began at mit, I think, David, you were there in the early days when it was like in classrooms, and now it's this massive convention center. When I was here, it was in the convention center. But you didn't have a problem with conflicts as much, you know, oh, I'll watch this panel and then I'll watch the next panel. And now there's like four or five things going on at the same time. It's huge. Everyone's here.

[Pablo Torre]

Barack Obama was here one year.

[Amin Alhassan]

Yes, he was. He might be here tonight as well.

[Pablo Torre]

Is that right?

[Amin Alhassan]

Well, I gotta check with Sasha, Malia, Michelle. There it is.

[David Samson]

It's just terrible. We're trying to do a show.

[Amin Alhassan]

Well, you know, I can do the show and do this voice at the

[Pablo Torre]

same time, it's very funny to me that on this same stage where Amin is doing terrible Barack Obama impressions, the commissioner of the NBA was holding court. He was the same man who has now spent six months figuring out how to hold to account the richest owner in all of sports.

[Amin Alhassan]

Well, if you listen to him, he says he's not doing that. He's waiting for Wachtel Lipton to complete their investigation. And at that point he'll commence thinking about the punishment.

[Pablo Torre]

And his spirit is inhabiting the man sitting in the chair he was sitting in earlier. Yes, correct, David. Adam Silver, though, is not sticking around to watch us here today because why? Where is he?

[David Samson]

He scurried south because of your show. Or he's sitting in a room currently with the newly formed College Committee. They're going to solve all the issues. Don't worry. Randy Levine is on the case. He is in charge of a committee and a picture came out already of them sitting at a table as though they're trying to solve other sort of peace crises, but apparently they're going to solve nil. And that's where Adam had to go.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, he is with Donald Trump right now, currently not the rabbit hole we're falling into somehow. What I did want to do, though, was acknowledge a critique that I have received. As we get a little, you know, a little risque here because this ongoing investigation into a bankrupt tree plank, it's just funny for me to continue to have to say bank, bankrupt tree planting startup, a fintech company. This investigation continues to consume my life. It does. We're doing fucking part nine. In our episode last month, you owe me a dollar. In our episode last month, David, I reported something that I personally thought was fascinating, and I want to acknowledge the critique that we received. What I reported was that multiple Aspiration employees have long believed that the entire federal investigation into Aspiration was the direct result of a whistleblower from inside the company. Reported aspirations, hidden fraud to the sec, to the doj, to the cftc. And this apparently led to all the arrests and convictions and bankruptcy filings we've been monitoring since. And given how important Steve Ballmer and the Clippers are to the story of Aspiration. What I asked aloud in that last episode was whether this hypothetical whistleblower might have also named Steve Ballmer and the Clippers in such a complaint to the government. And this led to responses like the ones in David and Amin's folders, which I also want to show on the big screen behind us. If our production values are as high As I think they are. David, could you please open your folder?

[Amin Alhassan]

Oh, he gets to open it.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right,

[Amin Alhassan]

the Upside Down.

[David Samson]

I don't know if it's backwards or not, so I'm gonna take a very big chance here. Oh, I mean, really? Nope. Backwards.

[Amin Alhassan]

Other way around.

[David Samson]

Okay, here we go. I shall turn it over.

[Amin Alhassan]

That's why you gotta rehearse.

[David Samson]

Listen, we're live, baby. Love it. Okay, what do you want me to do?

[Pablo Torre]

I'd like you to read it.

[David Samson]

Okay. There's nothing there. A bunch of hyperbole and rehashing. What if the whistleblower mentions the Clippers? Womp, womp, womp. The only thing Pablo will find out is that his 15 minutes is over with this story. That's a tweet from David P. Sampson.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay? I mean,

[Amin Alhassan]

this is it. I love that. That's his big moment. Quote, there's a whistleblower under oath. What if he mentions the Clippers? Unquote. Oh, yeah. What if he mentions Pizzagate or effing space aliens or the lizard people running the government? What are we doing here? Question mark, Question mark.

[Pablo Torre]

And in the interest of transparency, I should probably just mention here that Daryl Morey's actual suggestion to me for this live show was this text message in your folder, David,

[David Samson]

Reveal who killed Epstein in prison at the conference, question mark.

[Pablo Torre]

That investigation is also ongoing. But the question I actually want to answer here today, with all of you, and with all due respect to the lizard people, is a different question. The question is, how exactly did tens of millions of dollars travel from the Clippers bank account to Aspirations bank account in order to pay Kawhi Leonard? And there would seem at first to be an easy answer here, if you've been paying attention since Steve Ballmer made an initial investment of $50 million into aspiration back in September of 2021. And the total value of Aspirations secret no show endorsement arrangement with Kawhi Leonard was $48 million. 28 million in promised cash, 20 million in equity. But one key to understanding this entire alleged scheme, which nine Aspiration sources have told me was designed to circumvent the MBA salary cap, is that Aspiration was spending all of its cash insanely quickly. Right? So this is why it was so conspicuous that an LLC belonging to the Clippers Only co owner, Dennis Wong, chose to invest $2 million into Aspiration in December of 2022, when Huang had already been informed that the company was in default. Only for aspiration, of course, to wire $1.75 million to an LLC belonging to Kawhi Leonard. Just nine days later, after months of delay, I will point out that Amin Alhassan is breaking fast. It is Ramadan he was having. Is that a Nature Valley bar?

[Amin Alhassan]

I don't want to disclose the brand.

[David Samson]

Well, they didn't pay.

[Pablo Torre]

You and Kawhi Leonard have something in common. But that is just $2 million. Right. And so the question becomes, how does tens of millions of dollars travel from the actual Clippers organization to Aspiration? And for that, Amin, you need to rewind to the first actual document in your folder. Which is what?

[Amin Alhassan]

This is the Kwai endorsement agreement.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

The no show contract for Kawhi's quote organic marketing deal. And this was signed by who and on what date?

[Amin Alhassan]

Kawhi Leonard, April 4, 2022.

[Pablo Torre]

So what I need to point out here is that by April 4, 2022, aspiration did not have enough money to pay Kawhi Leonard. They'd already spent all of the money they got from Steve Ballmer, actually. But that very same day, Los Angeles Clippers David agree to do something very interesting. This. Now, according to the first document in your folder, which is what?

[David Samson]

This is Aspiration's April statement from Silicon Valley Bank.

[Pablo Torre]

And how much did the LA Clippers wire into aspiration on April 4, 2022?

[David Samson]

$32,442,080.

[Amin Alhassan]

Coincidence.

[Pablo Torre]

Now, maybe you guys also have a guess as to what exactly is happening here with the $32 million. But I think the best explanation actually comes from somebody else that I first encountered in person at this very conference back in the early days of Sloan. And this person happens to be Team Ballmer's number one defender. During a 36 day stretch last year, Mark Cuban tweeted 17,053 words about this investigation. And Amin, I would love for you now to read just a few of them here in front of everybody assembled at home and in this room.

[Amin Alhassan]

Mark, I love you. And a final note, While Pablo is focusing on the $2 million and the $50 million from Wong Ballmer, he didn't really get into the millions of dollars in carbon credits that were purchased by the Clips and the Arena. I bring this up because it would have been a lot easier and a lot safer if he was trying to circumvent the CBA to just buy more carbon credits. They were almost all margin, as Pablo correctly pointed out. So they would have created the cash immediately to pay KL2, end quote.

[Pablo Torre]

And this is a really, really, really smart point that Mark and or chatgpt raised.

[Amin Alhassan]

He loves it.

[Pablo Torre]

He Does.

He loves.

He loves. He loves LLMs. The standard approach, David, that environmentally conscious companies, sports teams like the one you ran, the Miami Marlins, the approach that they typically had towards buying carbon credits was just to buy them whenever they needed them. Because a carbon credit, if we've done nothing else in nine parts, I hope people know a carbon credit is literally

[David Samson]

what it is, literally for PR purposes.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, that's it. That is, you're jumping ahead to take away. But what is it? In its physical form, it is the

[David Samson]

planting, in theory, the promise.

[Amin Alhassan]

The.

[David Samson]

The. You say you're told, hey, we're going to plant a bunch of trees, therefore you can keep flying privately.

[Pablo Torre]

It's a tree.

[Amin Alhassan]

Well, it's a promise of a tree.

[Pablo Torre]

It's the commodity known as. We're going to plant this tree.

[Amin Alhassan]

We promised to plant it.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right, yeah. Planting a tree, for the record, generally costs like 10 to 20 cents on the public carbon markets. Aspiration was charging a dollar, which is, as Mr. Shark Tank pointed out, an incredible margin. And yet, what were the Clippers doing? Right, let's examine this question. The Clippers made the highly unusual decision to prepay $32 million worth of trees on April 4, 2022, as you can see here now on this handy timeline that we've made. So the tree money traveled into an escrow account with aspiration, as you'll see, here we are, April 4, 2022. And this brings us to this master timeline, which in the defense of the Clippers, they've previously denied. Right. They would have you believe that this timeline is actually two separate timelines. And therefore, of course, this is not caps or convention. This is passionate tree planting and some other stuff that was happening separately that they had no idea about. And so, for the record, the Clippers, in response to detailed questions we sent them yesterday, declined to comment for this episode, as they, quote, unquote, fully cooperate with the NBA's ongoing internal inquiry. But you may recall that the team's original statement to us was this flat out denial. And I'll just read it here for legal reasons and also general Entertainment, quote, neither Mr. Ballmer nor the Clipper circumvented the salary cap or engaged in any misconduct related to aspiration. Any contrary assertion is provably false. Provably false is a very notable phrase because they stopped using it after September 2, 2025. But I will then point out that Ballmer, for his part, has previously told espn, Ramona Shelburne on television that the Clippers merely introduced Kawhi to Aspiration and that quote, then they were off to the races on their own. End quote. So we're here to pressure test the defense of two totally separate timelines. And so we have another stop on this road. According to the language of the no show contract, David, the KL2 contract which you have, when was Kawhi's very first quarterly payment actually due to?

[David Samson]

Company will pay KL2 $28 million in cash during the term of this agreement. The payment shall be made quarterly in arrears in the amount of $1,750,000. The first payment shall be paid on June 30, 2022. All payments will be wire transferred to KL2's accounts.

[Pablo Torre]

So June 30, 2022 is when aspiration needed to actually start wiring Kawhi Leonard via KL2Aspire LLC. His money to do again, about as much as Amin was doing when he was not disclosing the brand of the bar. He was just eating to break his fast.

[Amin Alhassan]

I think I did more for the bar because I held it and I took a bite.

[Pablo Torre]

You actually did, but Amin, could you now please tell us what the next headline on this internal document is inside of your folder?

[Amin Alhassan]

Clippers and Aspiration Acknowledgment of Carbon Credit Ownership Transfer.

[Pablo Torre]

This document, as you can also see, perhaps is actually signed by the CFO of the Clippers and the CEO of Aspiration. And on what day, Amin, did this tree transfer happen to take effect?

[Amin Alhassan]

The acknowledgment of Carbon Credit Ownership transfer is made effective as of June 30, 2022.

[Pablo Torre]

But surely there must be some other time pressure that caused the Clippers to want that tree money on June 30, 2022 specifically. Because maybe this is all just the end of Q2 sort of coincidence. You know, I'm not a business guy, I'm not a billionaire. I don't know. Amin, could you please read the next line?

[Amin Alhassan]

Aspiration has secured 400,000 carbon credits on behalf of company to offset part of companies historical CO2 emissions.

[Pablo Torre]

Historical emissions. David, what are those?

[David Samson]

So we didn't measure those in my 18 years because I didn't really care and it is shocking to me. Listen, it's a great thing. If I could say to everybody in our market, you have no idea how worried we are about the environment. We're about to pick pay to make up for all the things we did wrong. It's like apologizing for all of the ills. Like 10 affairs ago, you say, oh, I'M sorry for that one. No, no, we're just talking about this latest one.

[Pablo Torre]

But I appreciate that. Very specific comparison.

[David Samson]

No, I'm just saying I don't fully understand that, why he would do it. I mean, there's really.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, they care about. They care about the environment very much. But the point being that by definition, these are the carbon emissions that the team had released in the past.

[David Samson]

How do they keep track?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, they can do analyses, you know, whatever. Like the point. The point being that there was no present day time pressure in June of 2022, by definition at all. And so we first asked the Clippers about these carbon credits last year. And what they said, referring to their sponsorship with Aspiration at the Intuit Dome was, quote, our development agreements for the arena included mandates to buy carbon credits. But after studying the issue of neutrality, we went far beyond those requirements.

David.

Some of those commitments were built into the sponsorship deal with Aspiration, totally separate of the investment in the company. We made payments to Aspiration until the company was unable to fulfill their responsibilities, end quote. And so, David, just to close the loop here on totally separate, what is the next document that is in your folder, please?

[Amin Alhassan]

He's getting a workout. Putting his glasses on to the mouth.

[Pablo Torre]

Very efficient aspirations.

[David Samson]

June statement from Silicon Valley bank.

[Pablo Torre]

And Aspiration suddenly, flush with all of this tree money from the Clippers, decided to do what? On June 30, 2022.

[David Samson]

That's an outgoing wire of $1.75 million to KL2.

[Pablo Torre]

So they happen to wire out $1.75 million. Kawhi's quarterly paycheck amount on June 30, 2022. And so, just going to recap here, the handy timeline that I showed you before Kauai signs $28 million aspiration contract flippers prepay $32 million in carbon credits. That's April 4, 2022. June 30, month later, Kawhi receives his very first no show paycheck from Aspiration on the same exact day that the Clippers finally grant approval to Aspiration to access the $32 million in that aforementioned escrow account and transfer those trees. Again, totally separate, as you can clearly see on this timeline.

[Amin Alhassan]

Maybe that was just the day they went to the bank.

[David Samson]

Yeah, that's how it works. They walked in with like $32 million. Like to deposit this, please.

[Pablo Torre]

But as for the remainder of the $32 million, because again, that's only 1.75 that they used. What Aspiration did with the rest of it is extremely in line with the pattern we've been describing because they of course, burned through all of it. Okay. By November 18, 2022, according to dozens of legal letters that I've reviewed, the company was so broken that it set out to terminate its dozens of outstanding marketing agreements in order to save money. Except for two. Two marketing agreements still remained. And I'd like you guys to guess which two marketing agreements Aspiration chose to preserve as they were cutting loose all of the other ones.

[Amin Alhassan]

Robert Downey Jr. No.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, that's a great.

[David Samson]

Guess what.

[Pablo Torre]

He was an Aspiration endorser.

[David Samson]

I mean, thanks for the layup. I'll take it.

[Amin Alhassan]

Kawhi Leonard that was my second guess.

[Pablo Torre]

Was it KL2 Aspire LLC, which was never announced publicly, was retained. The other one happens to be the $300 million Clippers founding sponsorship agreement, which had been very publicly announced for the entire world to see. Because again, that's the point of marketing, right? So you have the secret one. You have the one that is very, very announced everywhere. That was CNBC headline. In other words, Aspiration wanted to keep sending money to Steve Ballmer and Kawhi Leonard in specific. Which now brings me a mean. Sorry.

[David Samson]

It doesn't mean they wanted to keep sending money, it just means they didn't break those. So it doesn't mean they were going to pay them or actually do anything. Sorry.

[Pablo Torre]

They wanted to remain obligated. Yes, to those parties in specific. I mean, this brings me to another bit of feedback that I have received on Twitter. Unfortunately this is a lot of just me airing personal grievances by the way. So apologies, but I've been thinking about this one ever since because I think there's a reasonable question that lots of people are asking.

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[Amin Alhassan]

Will you accept the results of the NBA's investigation when they're released? Ooh, that is a good question.

[Pablo Torre]

And David, there's another message that echoes this concern. If you could please read that.

[David Samson]

You are so sensitive. Can you imagine making policy based on Twitter?

[Pablo Torre]

Never ironic, never God, never go to war or anything.

[David Samson]

Would you admit nothing Nefarious happened if that's the conclusion the NBA reaches. Just curious.

[Pablo Torre]

And I just need to say that in all sincerity. Right. Part of me cannot wait to find out what the NBA's internal investigators at the white shoe law firm Wachtel Lipton say they found out. I genuinely want to know what they what they return with.

[Amin Alhassan]

Isn't it weird, though? Typically when Wachtel Lipton goes in, they investigate an organization, they come out with the findings. They are the authority. They've got all the information and all the news stories and all the reactions are based off of what comes out in that report. But they're in a weird situation where you're kind of one step ahead releasing stuff. So can they ever say our investigation is concluded if we keep coming out with new stuff?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, I think this raises the fundamental question of what questions are they asking? What are they trying to find out? Because I am happy to take lots of credit for what's been reported, but I also think that this is all due to these sources and the evidence that I have come in contact with. And so something I read recently Amin, was an article reported by Joe Varden and Mike Vorkanov in the Athletic last month. And I'd like you to actually read this excerpt from the article. It's the next thing in your folder.

[Amin Alhassan]

Joe, Mike, I love you guys, too. Some interviewed by Wachtel during its investigations have questioned what the firm's parameters are and if the NBA set them. One former Aspiration employee interviewed by Wachtel and granted anonymity by the Athletic to protect their privacy, said the questions in the interview were two pointed. The former Aspiration employee said that they were asked about Leonard, his uncle, and business manager Dennis Robertson, aspiration and its internal dynamics and the Clippers organization. The employee, however, said he was not asked about Ballmer, end quote.

[Pablo Torre]

And I found this very eye opening for obvious reasons, perhaps for months I've been talking to multiple NBA owners and coaches and general managers and scouts who believe that the NBA does not want to punish its richest owner because Steve Ballmer's $140 billion maybe too critical to Adam Silver's ambitions at a time when money for growth, for global expansion, which he was talking about on this stage earlier today in those chairs, and all that money is in flux. Right. It's an uncertain time economically. Everybody knows that. And this guy has in Mr. Ballmer a ton of it. And what one NBA head coach told me was, quote, the aspiration situation deserved an immediate response. It affects the integrity of the league as well as Competitive balance right now, end quote.

[David Samson]

You're not gonna get an immediate response. That's unrealistic. You have to do the investigation. You have to pick a day. By the way, you're right about that, because there could be. They're not happy that you are leaking it this way. Like one episode at a time, like

[Pablo Torre]

a drip publishing as I can confirm things on record.

[Amin Alhassan]

He's being responsible. This is how journalism works, David. You don't just run to Twitter and start talking about it.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, and to that point, I should say also, the NBA League office did not respond to our request for comment before our deadline. Right. So all of that is in order. But what I started doing after reading the Athletics Independent reporting was polling sources. I polled five former Aspiration employees who had previously told me that they communicated and or participated in meetings with Ballmer through Aspiration, including on the subject of carbon credits. And what all five of these Aspiration employees told me is that when they sat down with the MBA's investigators from Wachtel, the investigators in question did not ask them about Steve Ballmer either. Which raises a question, I think, among those employees about the NBA's desired scope of this investigation.

David.

And how independent an independent investigation might really be.

[David Samson]

You know what I bet he did at the end? The investigators. When you're interviewed by someone in the media, you're investigated. It's always, hey, did I not ask anything, or am I leaving anything out? I don't know if you do that as a reporter, as a journalist, I

[Pablo Torre]

love to ask a question along the lines of, what should I have asked you if I didn't?

[David Samson]

What should I have asked you? And as whenever I'm interviewing, I'm like, all right, I'm leaving now. You never, when you're. When you're being cross examined or anything like that in a deposition, you never add anything. That's a quick word of advice of me. And for the next time you're sued. So I wonder whether or not that Wachtel ended with those Aspiration employees. I don't know if you asked them. Hey, did they say at the end anything else you want to mention? Like the responsibility is theirs?

[Pablo Torre]

Did Amin just check his phone to see if he got sued in the last.

[Amin Alhassan]

No, I just wrote the note down. It's coming.

[Pablo Torre]

I should clarify that Wachtel Lipton's lead investigator, whom David Samson and I previously met with in an earlier episode, was not available for comment. So good questions raised, but I have no insight for that on the record. But I did interview one High powered lawyer at a different firm who does outside investigation work for leaks. And what they said was, quote, you want to signal to not only your client, but to other clients that you will provide the outcome that they want. And I am trying to calibrate my cynicism right around the outside investigation. But, David, you were the president of a major league baseball team that had been investigated.

[David Samson]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

What's your sense of how leagues operate in relation to the outside counsel that they hire and pay money to?

[David Samson]

With all due respect to Adam Silver and to leagues, there is not a commissioner who opens the investigation, the report and reads it and says, oh, I didn't know that, or, oh, that's interesting, I had no idea. Oh, oh, you just released that publicly and I'm reading it now. Give me a break. The way it works is that you have access to the report prior to it being released. The way it works is you are the client. And I don't know if you're in the service industry, but the way it works is you work for your client. Lawyers work for their clients and your source from whatever firm. But you can fill in the blank. Every firm is that way that I've ever worked with in all of my years. They want to know, what do you want? Because how else do they deliver it? And then how else do you get what's the most important, which is repeat business.

[Pablo Torre]

So on the notion of repeat business and the finances of an investigation, something that I think is very interesting is who ultimately pays the bill for the investigation. So in this case, David, who pays the bill for the Wachtel investigation into the Los Angeles Clippers?

[David Samson]

Steve Ballmer. Little known fact there is that when you become an organization, when you become a franchise, you buy team, you have to sign a document, an agreement with the league. And one of the provisions is should you ever be investigated, you will pay for it. It's one of those things if you're a team owner, you know, that is real. It's not talked about a lot, but yes, Steve Ballmer is pain, but Steve Ballmer is. I wonder whether he's going through the hourlies of Wachtel.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, they accumulate.

[David Samson]

Yes, they do.

[Pablo Torre]

And so something that I want to point out as a result of this dynamic is that as for my other aspiration sources that I've been talking to for. I started this investigation in February of 25. It's been more than a year. There are several key sources who say they have refused to talk to the NBA's investigators because they essentially see those investigators as working for the 140 billionaire who's ostensibly being investigated. And when these sources tell me that it feels like the NBA is, quote, paying to borrow someone else's letterhead, it is hard to Ignore what the NBA's high powered law firm of choice has not been asking about, which they are all talking about amongst themselves. But this is what's especially crazy. I mean, about not asking about the team's owner in particular. Right. As much as I want to take credit for the novelty of this whole investigation, this is not the first time that former Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer has been investigated for alleged cap circumvention. Do you remember the other instances that

[Amin Alhassan]

Steve was involved with the other repeat offenses? Well, I would say there was the DeAndre Jordan Lexus deal.

[Pablo Torre]

Yep. So $250,000 as a fine in 2015. They had offered DeAndre Jordan in the pitch meeting a deal through another team sponsor, Lexus, in that case. That was the first one in 2015.

[Amin Alhassan]

And then the second one was. Oh, was that Kawhi? Yeah, it was Kwai when he came to sign.

[Pablo Torre]

It was the first time that they investigated Kawhi Leonard and Capstar Convention and all that stuff in 2019.

[Amin Alhassan]

Well, that one didn't have a. There was no tidy bow at the end of that.

[Pablo Torre]

In fact, the league apparently found nothing. Yeah, right. And that was after the Lakers and the Raptors complained to the NBA about Uncle Dennis Robertson, his unlicensed representative, and Kawhi Leonard himself. And that's also in addition to three different civil lawsuits we've covered in this series before, each of them having to do with the Clippers recruitment of Kawhi. So that's the backdrop on all of this. And so my basic presumption was simply that Wachtel might want to ensure that they found out what all of these employees may have known, David, about Steve Ballmer just as a pure CYA strategy, but the scope as they strategized around it was not that.

[David Samson]

It's much easier if you don't ask the question to say that it was not part of the investigation than to ask it, get an answer and then not have it in the report and say, hey, we didn't deem it report worthy. It's easier to say it on the front end than the back end.

[Amin Alhassan]

It's kind of like when Covid first started blowing up and Donald Trump said, hey, we should not test. That way our positive results will go down. If you never test, if you never ask for it, you'll never find out.

[Pablo Torre]

There's some strange symmetry in all of this happening today as Adam is meeting with that man at the moment. So, look, the thing I'm left thinking about more than anything is just this question. What information would the league's investigators have been told if they had been very explicitly directed by their client to dig deeper into Steve Ballmer, their client's richest boss? Because something I've been spending these last several months doing is not simply talking to former Aspiration employees. I've also been talking to a range of former federal employees, and I've been surveying the. Again, take it back to politics for a bit. I've been surveying the staggering amount of turnover at the securities and Exchange Commission and the Department of Justice and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. And again, I just cannot help but wonder what other evidence Adam Silver's NBA may be sitting on. And I actually happen to mean that last part quite literally. David and Amin.

[Amin Alhassan]

This guy. Hold on, man.

[Pablo Torre]

I would love for you now to put your folders aside and please look underneath your chairs.

[Amin Alhassan]

I knew when he did the Oprah thing, I was like, that's a weird reference from.

[David Samson]

Cameras are there. So don't do that.

[Amin Alhassan]

Thank you.

[David Samson]

This. You go behind you release something. I don't.

[Pablo Torre]

I would love for you to reach underneath your chair.

[David Samson]

Did you look under the chair?

[Pablo Torre]

I did not.

[Amin Alhassan]

Am I sitting in the right chair? Is it under the cushion?

[David Samson]

Oh, it's. Thank God I didn't touch the under chair. It's taped to the floor. I feel way better about myself.

[Pablo Torre]

You fell off the bottom of your chair.

[David Samson]

I Super happy about that.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, so it.

[Amin Alhassan]

It is. Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

I should say that earlier this morning, before the 20th anniversary Sloan Sports Conference kicked off, the Pablo Tori finds out staff went around this room and taped a very important document to those chairs. The same chairs that Adam Silver was sitting on. Is this here?

[David Samson]

When Adam was here?

[Pablo Torre]

It was there before he was scheduled to go meet Donald Trump at the White House. And the document you'll find there, it turns out as you continue to open it is not about Pizzagate or space aliens or the lizard people running the

[Amin Alhassan]

government who killed Epstein.

[Pablo Torre]

And unfortunately, it's also not that. What you are holding in your hands is an authenticated copy of a government whistleblower complaint. This is at long last.

[David Samson]

Do we have security?

[Pablo Torre]

This is the whistleblower complaint that directly led to the federal investigation into Aspiration and the subsequent convictions of Aspiration co founder Joe Sandberg and another one of its board members, both of whom have since pleaded guilty to wire fraud. And in Fact, this whistleblower complaint is the exact document that multiple former Aspiration employees had told me they believed existed. And David, what is the date at the top of this document and to whom Was it submitted?

[David Samson]

March 2, 2023 via SEC whistleblower portal.

[Pablo Torre]

Can I please continue? Can lawyer look at this?

[David Samson]

I can read it, yeah. Why? There's a name here.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[David Samson]

Okay.

[Amin Alhassan]

This is new for us. We don't get to read names usually.

[David Samson]

Nicole Criola Kelly, Chief Office of the Whistleblower securities and Exchange Commission, 100 F Street Northeast. Mail stop, 5631, Washington D.C. 20549. Ray, TCR 16765. 764, 865, 147.

[Amin Alhassan]

The audio listeners will thank you for that.

[Pablo Torre]

March 2, 2023 was multiple years before my reporting began. For the record. And that TCR number, I need to explain to you guys because this is completely new. It stands for TIP Complaint or referral Number. It is a unique registration number. It's what you get when a whistleblower signs a government form that declares under penalty of perjury that the information provided is, quote, true, correct and complete. To the best of my knowledge, information and belief. That government form also stipulates that this whistleblower may be prosecuted if, quote, in my submission of information, my other dealings with the SEC or my dealings with another authority in connection with a related action, I knowingly and willfully make any false, fictitious or fraudulent statements or representations. End quote. And this TCR number, which David very helpfully read out, it can be verified as real with the federal government if anybody has questions about the authenticity of the document. So, David, can you please continue reading what else this says?

[David Samson]

Dear Ms. Kelly, this submission supplements TCR 16765764865147 that he bought with two zoos in submit. Thank you. By the way. Excuse me.

[Pablo Torre]

The role, Jim.

[David Samson]

Thank you. All right, sorry. This submission supplements the TCR Number. Submitted on February 15, 2023 by whistleblower. Redacted is joined in submission by a second whistleblower who will remain anonymous. Aspiration Partners Inc. Aspiration was founded in 2013 by Joseph Sandberg and Andre Czerny. The company promotes itself as a global leader in sustainability, as a service solutions for consumers.

[Pablo Torre]

And it goes on for a while.

[David Samson]

It's like cut off after that.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to point out a couple of things. Joseph Sandberg and Andre Czerny, two fellow Harvard grads alongside Steve Ballmer. And Dennis Wong and Pablo Torre allegedly

[David Samson]

can't do a show without saying Harvard can't do it.

[Pablo Torre]

This complaint is several pages long. Okay, that's why we cut it off there. It was submitted by not one but two aspiration employees through their attorneys and those attorneys that are listed on this document declined to comment to ptfo. But one thing that people often ask about in this nine part investigation is where's the smoking gun? Where is that thing? Where is the legally vetted document that proves in writing that we have here Pablo Torre finds out, you know, not simply invented some wild story about how the Los Angeles Clippers used tree money to flagrantly circumvent the NBA salary cap. And so Amin, I would now like you to please read this next excerpt from the document. I really want to take a quick

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[Amin Alhassan]

Read the whole thing right?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, all right.

[Amin Alhassan]

Other examples of aspirations fraud A Los Angeles Clippers $32 million escrow account In June 2022, Aspiration reached a $32 million agreement with the Los Angeles Clippers to create an escrow account and draw on the funds to purchase specific carbon offsets from specific projects on behalf of the Clippers to offset their emissions. Aspiration used only 1.4 million to purchase carbon credits pursuant to the agreement. Of the $20 million that aspiration drew from the escrow account, most was used to pay for carbon credits to satisfy other agreements, either for past agreements with the Clippers or to satisfy agreements with other customers and to pay for aspirations operating costs and even to pay Clippers forward Kawhi Leonard an incentivized bonus to circumvent the NBA's salary cap disguised as an organic marketing sponsorship agreement. That's a Smoking gun, ladies and gentlemen.

[David Samson]

That's. Emphasis added. I was clapping.

[Amin Alhassan]

You gotta play for the crowd.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, look.

How did.

[David Samson]

So you would have given a Look.

[Pablo Torre]

I wanna pause for a second. Right. The big question we gathered here to answer was how in the. Did tens of millions of dollars travel from the Clippers bank account to aspirations bank account in order to pay Kawhi Leonard? And this after a year of reporting is. Is the documented answer. Okay. It's corroborating everything else we've previously reported. And the irony, in a sense is that the smoking gun was the starting gun.

[Amin Alhassan]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

It was the thing that kicked off everything we've been trying to piece together in the months since.

[David Samson]

Is this the, Is this what you're saying, started the invest the federal government investigation of aspiration that has led to the conviction of Sandberg?

[Pablo Torre]

This.

[David Samson]

They're not interested in salary cap circumvention. The government.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, this is. This is the beauty and the frustration of the story is that this document is the document that gave a roadmap of alleged wrongdoing to the federal authorities. But it's worth noting that circumventing the NBA salary cap is not illegal on its face. Right. Which may explain why the DOJ and the SEC and the F and the cftc, it's why they did not prioritize. Perhaps an investigation of what the ringer has already said might be, quote, the biggest and most audacious case of salary capture convention in NBA history. End quote.

[Amin Alhassan]

It's at the top of the sheet. Other examples of aspirations fraud. That means they got through all the other fraud and now they got to the Clippers and like, yeah, by the way, the last line. They're even paying Kawhi Leonard under the table.

[Pablo Torre]

Part C, by the way, like C. Part. Part A. Right. This document, I hesitate to say goes on and I am told importantly by multiple sources with direct knowledge that the federal government is not done. The SEC's investigation into aspiration is active and ongoing as we speak. And I'm also told that the federal government continues to find these aspiration whistleblowers credible. And personally, this is just me talking now. I do think these whistleblowers did something that the sports world as embodied in this room at this conference should know about. Right. I mean, this speaks to the question of competitive integrity in sports. It speaks to the question of what accountability for the richest people on earth even requires anymore at a time when those concepts have never been more fragile. That's the context for all of this reporting. That's Why I continue to focus on in the way that I have. And so David is ruefully shaking his head.

[David Samson]

I'm just frustrated because if this salary cap circumvention is happening, then and there's no punishment that comes, you're going to have other teams and other owners who are just despondent because they're going to either have to start circumventing it if they so choose to spend their money that way. But why would you. The whole purpose of getting a cap, which is what you work so hard to get from a union, is to not do this. But I digress.

[Amin Alhassan]

The purpose of the cap is to make sure that when I have a good player, he stays with me. But if they're somewhere else, I can still get him. That's the whole thing. Everyone always wants the rules to apply to everybody else except for themselves. And so much in the same way that people say, well, 30 years ago, players played 82 games. And I said, you know what? If Michael Jordan had discovered that by playing 70 games, I'd be even more amazing in the playoffs. He would have done it. And then everyone would have followed suit. They're all just keeping up at the same ruse that everyone else is doing.

[Pablo Torre]

The question, though is who cares? Right? Like, does the care? Does our audience care? Do the people at home care? And so towards this goal out in the audience, I also have a surprise for you. If you reach under your chairs.

[Amin Alhassan]

Come on.

[Pablo Torre]

Two of you will find out that in fact, you get something to take home with you tax free.

[Amin Alhassan]

Is it a tree?

[David Samson]

Please tell me there are two of you.

[Pablo Torre]

And I want to congratulate those sitting in the 11th and 12th rows in the center here. Okay, These are rows K and rose. L, if you're in seat number two.

[Amin Alhassan]

Get it?

[Pablo Torre]

KL if you're in seat number two. Have you found it?

[Amin Alhassan]

Oh, there's one right there. I see it on the right.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, there you go.

[Amin Alhassan]

There's one.

[Pablo Torre]

And you get a secret document. And you get a secret document right behind this is. Yes, you got it. I don't know if this is the end of what we've been doing here, reporting on this story. I just know that if you open those envelopes, you will find what feels like all the proof that anybody needs to know that this story is real. And I perhaps think it's fitting that I want to end this by thanking David Samson and Ameel Alhassan for showing up to work.

[Amin Alhassan]

Thank. Well, some folks across the aisle. They don't want us to be finding out whether aspiration pay quiet lender.

[David Samson]

Can I go back to the airport?

[Pablo Torre]

We can now end the show.

[Amin Alhassan]

There you go. Thank you.

[David Samson]

Thank you.

[Amin Alhassan]

What's in the Envelope.

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo torre finds out is produced by walter averoma, maxwell carney, ryan cortez, juan galindo, patrick kim, neely loman, rob mcrae, matt sullivan, claire taylor and chris tuminello. Rstudio engineering is by rg systems. Our sound design by andrew burcic at ngw post digital strategy by bailey carling and andrew northern and our theme song as always, by john bravo.

We'll talk to you next time,

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[Amin Alhassan]

ACAST powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.

[Podcast Host]

You may have heard something somewhere about the crisis of recycling and the problem of microplastics, but have you heard about how scientists are discovering very cool and creative solutions to fight this problem?

[Patricia Aima Maldonado]

There is so much fake news about everything I think that it is quite dangerous to talk about this, but microplastics are one of the biggest silent pollutions of all time and they are getting everywhere in the sea, in the soil, in the air and already inside our bodies.

[Podcast Host]

That was scientist and self described bacteria trainer Patricia Aima Maldonado. Hear a special interview for our fellow Friday series with her to find out the fascinating scientific and technological solutions she's working on to combat the invasive problem of microplastics. Listen only on TED Talks daily.

[Amin Alhassan]

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