Podcast Summary: "Does Nikola Jokić Love Horses More Than Basketball?"

Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Host: Pablo Torre (with correspondent Mickey Dujay)
Date: August 20, 2024
Episode Description: Pablo Torre and illustrator/documentarian Mickey Dujay investigate Nikola Jokić’s eccentric passion for harness racing, pondering whether the Denver Nuggets’ basketball superstar actually loves horses more than hoops.

Overview

This episode dives into Nikola Jokić’s well-publicized but little-understood obsession with horses and harness racing. Through on-the-ground reporting, interviews with horse racing figures, and plenty of humor, Pablo Torre and Mickey Dujay try to understand the roots of Jokić’s passion, how it coexists with his NBA greatness, and what it says about fulfillment, fame, and living authentically.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Viral Jokić-Horse Video & Setting the Stage

• [01:01] Pablo introduces the viral clip of Jokić, looking serene on a horse cart in Serbia, bringing into question whether he loves basketball at all, or just wants to be with his horses.

• [02:32] Mickey Dujay brands Jokić as “the number one eccentric in the NBA,” admired for his mystery and everyman-turned-mystic personality.

• [03:06] Classic moment: Jokić, after winning the NBA title, is more interested in getting home for horse racing than attending the championship parade.

  Quote (Jokić, 03:09):
  “No, I need to go home. How soon till you’re back in soccer on Sundays? I have my horse racing…”

2. Jokić’s Love of Harness Racing

• [04:28] On Michael Porter Jr.'s podcast, Jokić states his dream is to spend his post-basketball life with family and horses.

  • Jokić's secret dream: become a harness race driver and travel Europe racing.

• [05:22] Pablo and Mickey detail Jokić’s habit of watching horse videos at practice and his willingness to do advertisements only if horses are involved.

  Quote (Jokić, 04:28):
  “After the career is over… I want to see myself around family and spend the rest of the day with horses... Actually, that’s kind of my secret goal: to be a driver.”

• [06:17] Mickey explains the distinction between “driver” (harness racing) and “jockey” (thoroughbred), clarifying Jokić’s fascination.

3. “Tail of the Tape”: Comparing Basketball and Harness Racing

An extended, comedic comparison between the two sports, including:

• [08:18] Age (Harness racing: 15,000 years vs. NBA: 77 years)

• [08:40] Venues (Circus Maximus vs. Madison Square Garden)

• [09:13] Tactics (Chariot racing terms: “tripping it out”, “riding in the two hole”)

• [09:49] Famous practitioners (King Tut vs. Michael Jordan)

• [10:45] Nicknames (“The Bionic Man” vs. “Round Mound of Rebound”)

  Notable quote (Pablo, 09:13):
  “Tripping it out feels like something that you can now only do in certain states legally...”

4. The Reality of Harness Racing

• [12:08] Pablo notes the lack of an online harness racing culture; Mickey explains it’s an analog, earthy, under-the-radar world.
• [12:24] Differences between harness and thoroughbred racing detailed; harness racing is about “trotting” with standardbred horses.
• [13:42] Once-popular in the U.S. (1920s-40s), now niche and obscure.
• [14:19] Attempts to interview Jokić were rebuffed four times (“He said no, Pablo. He said no many times.” — Mickey).

5. Origins of Jokić’s Obsession

• [14:57] Jokić’s father introduced him to harness racing as a boy, and Jokić initially wanted to be a professional driver before his father redirected him to basketball.

  Quote (Mickey, 15:00):
  “He fell in love with it so much… He went to his dad and said, hey, this is what I want to do with my life… His dad looked at him and was like, Nikola, you’re seven feet tall. Could we at least try basketball?”

• [16:14] Jokić now seeks out top drivers like Tim Tetrick (nicknamed "The Bionic Man," over 13,000 race wins) during NBA road trips for off-day visits to stables.

  Quote (Tim Tetrick, 16:14):
  “He just kind of reached out and wanted to talk horses… He didn’t know anybody in America that knew anything about horses…”

• [18:12] Jokić travels under the radar to farms in sweats and sneakers, “just wanting to hang with the horses.”

6. The Allure of the Paddock

• [20:19] Tim Tetrick describes Jokić preferring the stables (“right down in the slum”) to VIP boxes.

• [21:02] Jokić is "mind, body, and soul" into horses—preferring hands-on work and the smells, noises, and physicality of racing over social scenes.

  Quote (Tim Tetrick, 21:02):
  “He wouldn’t leave. He said, I don't want to leave yet… This is my dream right here…”

• [22:37] Mickey reflects: “There is a difference between fame and fulfillment.”

  Quote (Pablo, 22:37):
  “Right. There’s a level in which this is a Pokemon—To Nikola Jokic…”

7. The Jokić Family Stable

• [22:55] The Jokić family is deeply involved in the Serbian trotting world; their father runs the Trotting Association.
• [23:32] Anecdotes about broken kneecaps and familial brawls, painting a “tough but loving” family.

8. Going Undercover: Mickey’s Harness Racing Adventure

• [24:34] To better understand Jokić, Mickey spends a day as a stable boy at the same New Jersey farm Jokić visited, learning the labor and rituals of race preparation.
• [26:04] With horse attendant Kyle, Mickey cleans stalls and bonds with Line Em Up, a “chill” mare scheduled for a race that night.
• [28:54] Humor abounds (“Brushing dingleberries out of a tail”) as Mickey gets hands-on, brushes, feeds, and even draws a portrait for the horse.
• [29:45] Mickey gives a pep talk to Line Em Up before she gets trailered to the Poconos for the race.

9. Race Day: Poconos Downs

• [30:55] Arriving at a rainy, largely deserted Pocono Downs, Mickey interacts with Tim Tetrick (driver) and trainer Jen Buongiorno in the paddock.

  Quote (Tim Tetrick, 34:12):
  “[Line Em Up is] just one good drive away from happiness…”

• [35:30] Trainer Jen gives Mickey a lucky horseshoe; Pablo bestows Harvard stickers for “good luck.”

• [37:44] The tension builds; Mickey, Pablo, and crew all place bets on Line Em Up.

• [40:09] The race unfolds—Line Em Up runs strong, staying near the front, but...

  Quote (Tim Tetrick, 41:51):
  “It’s a photo for the place between big, big plans and Line Em Up… Forgot the wallet at the Aussie dozen again in 1:54 flat.”

• [42:01] Second place. Mickey and Pablo react to the anticlimax but reflect on the deeper meaning.

10. Reflection: Why Jokić Loves Horses, and What We Learn

• [43:00] “We’re obsessed with results and winning… but the things that draw him to this sport are process things,” Mickey concludes.

• [43:59] Jokić’s passion isn’t about victory or money, but about “the journey of prep and teardown.”

• [45:03] Mickey admits: harness racing isn’t as good a sport as basketball. But that’s not the point—the sport grounds and recharges Jokić, making him the transcendent player he is.

  Quote (Mickey, 45:21):
  “…maybe we were asking the wrong question. It’s not how this sport is better than basketball. We should be thinking about how this sport helps make him the all-time great that he is.”

• [47:08] The episode concludes with the image of Jokić—ultimately happiest not as an NBA celebrity, but a peaceful horseman in rural Serbia:
  “...somewhere Nikóla is out there riding on the back of a cart... the happiest man on Earth.”

Notable Quotes & Moments

• [03:09] Jokić: “No, I need to go home... I have my horse racing.”
• [04:28] Jokić: “After the career is over. How I want to see myself is to be around the family and spend the rest of the day with the horses... my secret goal to be a driver.”
• [21:02] Tim Tetrick: “He was there by six o’clock... He wouldn’t leave. This is my dream right here. I just wanted to hang out with the horse people.”
• [22:37] Pablo: “There’s a level in which this is a Pokémon... To Nikola Jokic.”
• [28:54] Mickey: “Brushing dingleberries out of a tail... made me feel a closeness that I’d never felt for a horse before.”
• [35:36] Jen Buongiorno: “I actually brought you a special horseshoe because in racing we say that horseshoes are good luck charms.”
• [43:00] Mickey: “The things that draw him to this sport are these intangible, process things... The journey of the preparation and the teardown more than the winnings.”
• [45:21] Mickey: “…maybe we were asking the wrong question... This sport that he loves so much actually helps make him the all-time great that he is.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 01:01 | Introduction: Jokić’s horse obsession, “walled off” NBA star | | 03:06 | “When is parade?” — Jokić’s viral quote about skipping the championship parade for horse racing | | 04:28 | Jokić’s vision for post-basketball life (quote from Michael Porter Jr.’s podcast) | | 06:17 | Difference between “jockey” and “driver”; chariot/harness racing basics | | 07:42 | Comedy “tail of the tape” NBA vs. chariot/harness racing | | 12:24 | Thoroughbred vs. standardbred horses; hands-on ethics of harness racing | | 14:19 | Attempts (and failures) to interview Jokić directly; father’s influence | | 16:14 | Tim Tetrick (“Bionic Man”) meets Jokić, their friendship | | 20:19 | Why Jokić avoids VIP areas, loves paddocks, lives for the “smell” and labor of racing | | 22:37 | Reflections on fulfillment, Pokémon analogy | | 24:34 | Mickey spends a day as a stable boy, experiences the tactile work | | 29:18 | Drawing a portrait of Line Em Up, horse bonding | | 30:55 | At Pocono Downs: meeting Tetrick and trainer, race day rituals | | 37:44 | Placing bets, anticipation for Line Em Up’s race | | 41:51 | The race: Second-place finish | | 43:00 | Reflection: Winning isn’t the point—love of process, journey, nature | | 45:21 | The real discovery: How harness racing rejuvenates Jokić, fueling his basketball genius | | 47:08 | Finale image: Jokić at peace, the happiest man on Earth |

Tone & Style

• Conversational, irreverent, and highly self-aware; Pablo and Mickey blend dry humor, reporting, and a real search for meaning.
• The episode moves fluidly between cynicism, fascination, and sincere appreciation for Jokić’s authenticity.

Conclusion

This episode isn’t just about Jokić’s quirky interests. It’s a search for how grounding, private passions can recharge someone living under the spotlight. Harness racing, for Jokić, isn’t an escape from basketball—it’s a parallel world that allows him to remain truly himself, and perhaps, to be as great on the court as he is joyful in the stables.

“Maybe we were asking the wrong question... We should really be thinking about how this sport that he loves so much actually helps make him the all-time great that he is.”
— Mickey Dujay, [45:21]