Donald Trump's Secret Weapon Is a Quarterback

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: "Donald Trump's Secret Weapon Is a Quarterback"

Host: Pablo Torre
Guest Correspondents: Devin Gordon; interview subject: John McEntee
Release Date: January 3, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this talkumentary episode, Pablo Torre delves into the improbable rise of Johnny McEntee—a former UConn trick shot quarterback and early viral YouTube star—who emerged as one of Donald Trump’s most trusted confidants and a key player in his administration. With journalist Devin Gordon on reporting duty and Johnny McEntee himself joining the conversation, the episode explores how McEntee went from college athlete to “the secret weapon” behind Trump’s government staffing projects, notably Project 2025, and now to CEO of a right-wing dating app.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Viral Origin Story ([02:50]-[10:16])

• Pablo Torre is reminded of Johnny McEntee due to news of Trump’s civil fraud trial, drawing parallels between trick shots and political upsets.
• Johnny McEntee's viral 2011 trick shot video: Among the first big sports YouTube sensations (before Dude Perfect’s rise), it garnered 7 million+ views—huge for its time.
• Inspirational lineage: McEntee credits a UConn women’s basketball player for sparking the trick shot trend on campus.
• McEntee’s college persona defies some stereotypes—"teetotaler, designated driver, disciplined."
• Quote ([06:19]):
  "If you're trying to get a basic sense of him, close your eyes and picture an all-American quarterback... he's as gorgeous as your calves, let's put it that way."
  – Devin Gordon

2. Pivot to Politics ([11:16]-[14:19])

• After college, McEntee starts at Fox News, working on the digital team and witnessing Trump’s entry into the 2016 race.
• Unlike peers who mocked Trump’s candidacy, McEntee “gravitated towards him,” drawn to message, celebrity, and “anti-political correctness.”
• Quote ([13:30]):
  "It had the total opposite effect on me. I thought he had a great chance and I knew I wanted to work for him."
  – John McEntee

3. Breaking In: From Gopher to Body Man ([14:42]-[21:28])

• McEntee harasses Trump campaign with emails until he’s brought onboard as a volunteer.
• Starts at the bottom but quickly ascends—his “calm demeanor” and “central casting” good looks appeal to Trump.
• Body man role: The President’s constant companion and gatekeeper.
• Quote ([17:03]):
  "He probably liked that I looked the part of what an aide should look like."
  – John McEntee
• Proximity to power included helping Trump with everything, up to being the last to see him at night ([22:01]).

4. Life Inside Trump’s Inner Circle ([22:09]-[26:57])

• Day-to-day: Manages Trump’s fast-food orders (always Original Recipe KFC), forges Trump’s signature for office pranks ([22:55]).
• Picks up the ropes from Keith Schiller, prior chief body man and Trump’s longtime security, inheriting both duties and the ethos:
  Quote ([24:50]):
  "Whales that surface get harpooned."
  – John McEntee quoting Keith Schiller

5. White House Drama, Firing, and Unexpected Promotion ([27:05]-[31:46])

• Under Chief of Staff John Kelly, McEntee is ousted due to suspicious gambling winnings.
• Hours after being fired, is rehired on Trump’s campaign, showing Trump’s unambiguous preference for him.
• Returns to the White House not as a body man but as Director of Presidential Personnel, responsible for staffing key government roles.
  Quote ([30:44]):
  "When you hear someone on the news talk about a person being handpicked by Donald Trump, Johnny was doing the picking."
  – Devin Gordon

6. The Loyalty Test & Shadow Administration ([32:45]-[34:37])

• McEntee admits he’d never hired anyone before, but emphasizes the value of “mission alignment” over conventional qualifications.
• Instrumental in enforcing loyalty within the administration; described as “Trump’s enforcer” or even “shadow president” in media coverage, unfazed by comparisons to secret police tactics ([35:46]).
• Quote ([33:42]):
  "You can learn policy; you can't learn loyalty."
  – Andrew Kloster, via McEntee

7. January 6th & Media Perceptions ([36:05]-[37:49])

• When asked where he was on January 6th, McEntee says he was out getting dry cleaning, downplaying any direct involvement.
• On riot:
  Quote ([36:32]):
  "I don't know if I would call them anything other than curious, enthusiastic people that took things too far."
  – John McEntee

8. The Right Stuff: From Staffing to Dating ([38:19]-[41:17])

• Now CEO of The Right Stuff, a dating app for conservative singles—meant as a “safe space” amidst supposedly “woke” mainstream apps.
• Registration includes belief-alignment questions, e.g., "January 6th was..." and “Favorite liberal lie.”
• McEntee’s favorite liberal lie ([41:48]):
  "Diversity is our strength."

9. Project 2025 & What Comes Next ([42:57]-[44:39])

• In addition to his dating app, McEntee is a consultant for Project 2025, assembling names to staff a possible second Trump administration; is described in media as Trump’s “secret weapon.”
• Quote ([43:47]):
  "These are his two jobs. And in some ways, that's perfectly fitting who Johnny McEntee is."
  – Devin Gordon

10. The Central Metaphor: Trick Shots, Politics, and the American Dream ([44:16]-end)

• Pablo and Devin muse on whether McEntee might one day be President, given his improbable ascent.
• When asked about the allure of working at the White House, McEntee doesn’t mention service or civic duty:
  Quote ([45:03]):
  "Working at the White House is exactly like the movies ... it's fast paced ... you're watching history unfold."
  – John McEntee
• Pablo:
  "He's literally asking, what can my country do for me?" ([46:00])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Devin Gordon on McEntee’s look:
  "[Johnny McEntee] is as gorgeous as your calves." ([06:19])
• McEntee on why he joined Trump’s campaign:
  "It had the total opposite effect on me. I thought he had a great chance and I knew I wanted to work for him." ([13:30])
• On being close to Trump:
  "He probably liked that I looked the part of what an aide should look like." ([17:03])
• The Keith Schiller motto:
  "Whales that surface get harpooned." ([24:50])
• On “mission alignment” over competence:
  "You can learn policy; you can't learn loyalty." ([33:42])
• On January 6th:
  "I don't know if I would call them anything other than curious, enthusiastic people that took things too far." ([36:32])
• On creating The Right Stuff:
  "With the dating app ... we thought, why not there be one for Republicans?" ([39:44])
• On a favorite “liberal lie”:
  "Diversity is our strength." ([41:48])
• On working at the White House:
  "Working at the White House is exactly like the movies ... it's fast paced ... you're watching history unfold." ([45:03])
• Pablo on McEntee’s self-interest:
  "He's literally asking, what can my country do for me?" ([46:00])

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Johnny McEntee’s Trick Shot Origins: [02:50]-[10:16]
• Pivot to Politics: [11:16]-[14:19]
• Inside the Trump Campaign: [14:42]-[21:28]
• Life as Trump’s Body Man: [22:09]-[26:57]
• White House Firing and Personnel Promotion: [27:05]-[31:46]
• Loyalty and Media Coverage: [32:45]-[34:37]
• January 6th Reflections: [36:05]-[37:49]
• The Right Stuff Dating App: [38:19]-[41:17]
• Project 2025 “Secret Weapon”: [42:57]-[44:39]
• Final Reflections: [44:16]-end

---

Recap: Why Johnny McEntee Matters

Pablo’s takeaway ([46:31]):
"If you wanted to make the ultimate Trump world character you could not do better than Trick Shot Johnny Mac ... In fact, the greatest trick that Johnny Mack ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist."
This episode paints a portrait of a uniquely 21st-century political operative: a viral content star turned background power broker—central to Trump’s operation yet almost invisible to the outside world.

---

Episode tone: Conversational, sardonic, sharp-eyed, and darkly humorous throughout.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[Devin Gordon]

One of his duties was like, he literally walked Trump up the stairs to the White House private quarters at night. So, like, other than Melania's stunt double, he was the last person to see.

[Pablo Torre]

Donald Trump every night right after this ad. You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network Foreign Cortez, I don't know if you appreciate this, but there is a legitimately enormous news story that is breaking, unfolding like not far from where we are sitting right now. Yeah, Miami's only a three hour flight. They're debuting like new Heat culture jerseys and a court.

[Devin Gordon]

Incredible.

[Pablo Torre]

Dude, those are disgusting. All of it is just horrible. It looks like you designed them. That's a good thing. But speaking of horrific debuts, what I'm actually referring to, the news story I'm referring to is this. Former President Donald Trump has taken the stand in his civil fraud trial in New York City. The judge presiding over the case has.

[Devin Gordon]

Already found that Trump's fraudulently inflated the.

[Pablo Torre]

Value of their assets to obtain favorable loans.

[Devin Gordon]

Donald Trump has been on the witness stand about an hour now, and already the judge has had to warn him not to make speeches and just to answer the questions.

[John McEntee]

It's a very sad situation for our country.

[Devin Gordon]

We shouldn't have this.

[John McEntee]

This is for third world countries.

[Pablo Torre]

This is a legitimately unprecedented political moment in a decade full of them. We have the former President of the United States on the witness stand in a quarter billion dollar civil suit, a fraud trial. And yeah, the Attorney General of New York is prosecuting him and his family and his entire empire. Isn't Trump, like, also facing like 100 other criminal charges? Yeah, 91, actually, like 91 exactly. In four. And they're all felony counts in four other criminal trials on top of the financial penalties that this civil suit might bring. And yesterday the New York Times just reported on the front page that Joe Biden is losing to Donald Trump, polling worse than Trump in five of the six most important swing states in the presidential election. A year from now, dude, Donald Trump might get reelected as president from jail. Yeah, like that could happen. He, he actually might. We need to, like, reckon with this. And it would be the most absurd magic trick I, I think in American political history. Objectively, it is nuts. And this, all of this is why the video that I've been thinking about ahead of election day for weeks now is actually this. What's up?

[John McEntee]

This is Johnny McAtee representing UConn football trick shot Video?

[Pablo Torre]

The hell was that? Why did you waste my time with that? What was that?

[Devin Gordon]

This?

[Pablo Torre]

No, I'm not familiar with that. You've never seen Trick Shot Johnny Mac? No. This video was one of the first viral YouTube videos I ever remember seeing. It was from 2011. And this was before. Dude, perfect.

[Devin Gordon]

I am.

[Pablo Torre]

And as an ELDER Millennial, Johnny McEntee was the guy who came before all of these TikToks, all of these YouTube videos about people throwing like, shit into basketball hoops and, and garbage cans and throwing, like, footballs blindfolded. Johnny McEntee, that UConn quarterback we just saw, was an early Internet celebrity. And this was. Yeah, a dozen years ago. Fair enough. Why does Election Day remind you of him? Because last month, okay, I was reading an article about all of all the Trump in Puck, and the article was about all the people who are already planning to staff the next Trump administration. And there is this quote that I need to read from you. Quote. There are several Trump alumni in Project 2025 with experience in staffing the government, but its secret weapon is the presence of Johnny McEntee. As senior adviser, he was one of Trump's closest confidants and still is. Okay, so hold on. How did this guy go from like, trick shot QB guy to like, a weapon for Trump? So this, this is the question that I have been wanting to find out about. And to my genuine shock, okay, Trick Shot Johnny Mac, secret weapon of the Trump administration. One of the most powerful people in Trump world that most people don't know anything about actually agreed to sit down for an in depth interview with a very special Pablo Torre finds out correspondent. Great. And that is after the break. Let's do it. Devin Gordon, are you a little offended that I gave you this assignment?

[Devin Gordon]

I love this guy. Are you kidding me? I don't love this guy. Oh, my God. I already have to start over.

[Pablo Torre]

No, we're keeping this in. This is the tension. Devin Gordon, journalist, magazine writer, one of my favorite writers who's written for the Atlantic, the New York Times Magazine, gq, espn, Vanity Fair. I gave you this assignment that is on a couple of levels, kind of beneath you. You've interviewed like, Nicki Minaj and Jon Stewart. You've interviewed Grimes. Yeah, Devin.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And I said, hey, this Johnny McEntee guy.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah, but, you know, you also sent me to, to explore a mysterious Trump associate who somehow blossomed into his right hand man. Of all the people I profiled, he has one of the more unique arcs of anyone I've ever covered.

[Pablo Torre]

So Just describe Devin, if you could, Mr. Magazine Writer, if you have not seen or heard Johnny Mac yet, what is he like?

[Devin Gordon]

I think if you're trying to get a basic sense of him, close your eyes and picture an all American quarterback. You are picturing Johnny Mack. I mean, for starters, he's really dreamy. He is as gorgeous as your calves, let's put it that way. And he.

[Pablo Torre]

Sumptuous.

[Devin Gordon]

Sumptuous. Sculpted, really sculpted.

[John McEntee]

All right, good.

[Devin Gordon]

He's very handsome. He's kind of like apparatchik Ken, you know, kind of like Ken doll in that kind of way. But he's also very, like. He's super easy in his own skin. I mean, he showed up wearing, like, shorts and sneakers. He looked like he'd come from the driving range.

[John McEntee]

As I've gotten older, I introduced myself as John. Anyone that knew me young, of course, calls me Johnny. Of course, my family calls me Johnny. The President calls me Johnny.

[Devin Gordon]

You know, he arrived alone. You know, there was no hair and makeup. He didn't look in a mirror. He just rolls out of bed like, this was very friendly. He's instantly likable. Like, I could. In some. In some basic way, I could very quickly see why people liked having him around.

[Pablo Torre]

Right, right, right, right. So in terms of where he came from, what's his actual human birthplace?

[Devin Gordon]

Well, I mean, if you walk back from that, it's probably not so surprising. Right. He's a classic affluent white kid from Orange county, which means he's conservative, he's Republican. He was the star quarterback at an elite private school called Servite High. You know, this guy. You've pictured this guy. You've seen this guy. But he's. He was never under any illusions that he was gonna go play in the NFL.

[Pablo Torre]

So I should say the trick shot thing was not a thing before I saw Johnny McEntee do it. On some level, he is like this. A genuinely deserving footnote in sports Internet history.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah, he started something second level net.

[John McEntee]

Here, Mark, move it back 10 yards.

[Pablo Torre]

He starts doing the trick shot stuff, because why?

[Devin Gordon]

There was apparently a trick shot predecessor that, of course, deserves the real credit. Right. Like, the men do it and get all the credit. But of course, there was a video by women before it that actually started this, and it was the UConn women's basketball team.

[Pablo Torre]

I did not know any of this.

[John McEntee]

There's a viral video on campus. Everyone's going crazy. It gets 200,000 views. It's a women's basketball player who I was friends with, and she's Doing all these cool trick shots around campus, basically. And one of my buddies, not a football player, he's like, you need to do a football version of this.

[Devin Gordon]

So Johnny and a couple of his buddies who knew that he had this sort of trick shot proficiency, decided to sort of make a spoof video of their own as sort of an answer to it.

[John McEntee]

Then, yeah, it was like a Saturday or something in February. I think we had a lot of free time. We're like, let's go. We had one of those flip cameras at the time, and me and two guys just went around and did that all day.

[Pablo Torre]

The biggest thing with quarterbacks is if.

[John McEntee]

They can make all the throws. So I'm gonna try to do it the last shot where I'm in the arena hucking it. I still have an elbow problem to this day from that, by the way.

[Pablo Torre]

But this is where also Johnny McEntee gets, it seems like his first taste, I presume, of like cable news juice.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's. There's something innate about his ability to go viral. Before you even know what the concept of virality is at the time, you.

[John McEntee]

Know, a lot of different media outlets were reaching out to the University of Connecticut saying, can we get this guy on? For this kid, it's like shooting footballs in a barrel or in a basket. His name is Johnny McEntee, second string quarterback at the University of Connecticut, presenting his trick shot video that's now gone viral.

[Devin Gordon]

You know, it got like 7 million views, which doesn't sound like a lot now, but.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, with inflation adjusted.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah, that's like that. Like in 2011, that was like the whole Internet, correct? Yeah. Everyone saw this video But Johnny McEntee.

[Pablo Torre]

Young Johnny McEntee at UConn in that locker room, what was his rep? What was he like as? Just a dude.

[Devin Gordon]

So he's described in a lot of clips about that time in his life as a teetotaler, occasionally just referenced as the designated driver, didn't drink. He defies some of the stereotypes we have of those kinds of rowdy Division 1 quarterback Trumpy guys by being quite disciplined, it seems.

[Pablo Torre]

And so if I'm to look at the back of his football card, what do the actual numbers say about him?

[Devin Gordon]

A little over 2,000 yards passing in 12 games, 12 touchdowns and interceptions. My favorite stat, though, is that he rushed for minus 148 yards, which means he got sacked a lot.

[Pablo Torre]

How do we go from that ground game to the Trump ground game?

[John McEntee]

That last year when I wasn't playing, was the 2012 Romney, Obama election. And I was kind of following it a little closely, more than I had in the past. You know, I wasn't part of college Republicans or anything like that. Obviously, the way I grew up, I'm a Republican, I'm from a conservative area. So I was just sort of, you know, thinking about it. I didn't know I would get into it. My girlfriend at the time, though, said, like, you're going to get into politics. I can tell.

[Pablo Torre]

What I love about this story, as much as I also am deeply terrified of this story, is the way in which retrospect enables us to say, and the girlfriend obviously was ahead of her time.

[Devin Gordon]

Yes, yes. She saw something in him. And this sort of new path through politics that obviously leads him to Donald Trump, who of course is famous for ripping up the entire rule book about how you do this.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, himself, Donald Trump was proto viral.

[Devin Gordon]

Proto viral, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And so you have this guy, this trick shot quarterback, who is a kind of like actual quarterback. How does he get into politics if he's just sort of playing footsie with the idea and his girlfriend is the only one who's saying, like, this is your future.

[Devin Gordon]

Well, so he goes to New York and he's, you know, sleeping on couches, not really sure what he's gonna do.

[John McEntee]

I met a guy at church that worked at Fox and I was like, wow, well, I'm conservative. I love Fox. Like, I need to get in there. So he kind of pointed me in the right direction. I got an entry level job. I was working on the digital team.

[Devin Gordon]

He had referenced that maybe he would have been better off on the TV side. And for the record, I agree, having gazed into his eyes for about an hour. But one of the things that did happen while he was there was that Trump gave his famous campaign announcement speech, infamous campaign announcement speech where he comes down the escalator. Wow. Whoa. That is some group of people. Thousands.

[John McEntee]

One day, we're all in our cubicles at Fox and Donald Trump comes on TV and makes his announcement. And everyone in the office is laughing. They're like, this is guy's a clown. He has no chance. It's the most momentous announcement you can make in your entire career.

[Devin Gordon]

You're like, I want to come in on an escalator. Yeah.

[John McEntee]

It had the total opposite effect on me. I thought he had a great chance and I knew I wanted to work for him.

[Devin Gordon]

Why do you think you had the total opposite reaction?

[John McEntee]

All of the issues he was talking about were things the Republican base really cares about. And Things a lot of the establishment Republicans had forgotten about.

[Devin Gordon]

When do we beat Mexico at the border? They're laughing at us, at our stupidity, and now they're beating us economically. They are not our friend. Believe me.

[John McEntee]

This is like, refreshing. Like people are gonna gravitate to this like I was. And not to mention the celebrity and the anti political correctness, because I don't need anybody's money.

[Devin Gordon]

It's nice. I don't need anybody's money.

[John McEntee]

I'm using my own money.

[Devin Gordon]

I'm not using the lobbyists. I'm not using donors. I don't care. I'm really rich. I'll show you that.

[John McEntee]

I just, yeah, I was just gravitating towards him. I knew I wanted to be part of it.

[Devin Gordon]

And then he goes to that and he's just dumbstruck with this sense that I've got to go work for this guy. This is the guy.

[Pablo Torre]

What does he set out to do that gets him in the door?

[Devin Gordon]

He's going to go get a job with the Trump campaign, come hell or high water.

[John McEntee]

I was just harassing them. Yeah. I got no response. Every day I would go to Fox. I would get in my cubicle. The first thing I would do would be email the Trump for President campaign. Got no response. Two weeks in, I say, you know, does this place have anyone to check emails? I'll take that job. I'll do it for free.

[Devin Gordon]

And they responded to this one and they said, okay, come, come work for us. One of the three people who was working on the campaign finally checked the inbox and said, all right, sure.

[John McEntee]

I quit my job at Fox. I showed up as a volunteer and worked my way up from there.

[Devin Gordon]

I think he's even assuming this isn't going to go anywhere.

[John McEntee]

I know the first time I saw Donald Trump, I was super starstruck. It was like a few weeks in when I started in July of 2015, and the campaign office was about four interns and two staffers. And he walked in, he had his notebook, and I was just like, oh, my God, there he is.

[Devin Gordon]

And we all know where that led. Over the course of the year, it starts to get realer and realer and realer.

[Pablo Torre]

God, that's, that's, that's unnerving.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah, I mean, what's, what's, what's to me unnerving and sort of makes you think twice about him is that he saw it.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, it's a little on the nose now that you frame it that way, that the first viral trick shot quarterback saw how to get this thing exactly where he wants it in a way that most people couldn't.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah. It was one of the more, you know, the trick shot viral presidential campaign moments. Right. Where it just, you know, he pulls this move that everybody thinks is crazy, and it works. It works.

[Pablo Torre]

What's his job? What does he do when he's actually in the door?

[Devin Gordon]

I mean, he's starting out at the very bottom.

[John McEntee]

The first almost year I worked on the campaign, I was a gopher. I was running around. I was close to the campaign manager, close to the director of advance, close to a lot of the leadership, but not necessarily close to the candidate.

[Devin Gordon]

But he very quickly ascends the ladder.

[Pablo Torre]

Going up the golden escalator.

[Devin Gordon]

Up the golden escalator? Yes. Really quickly. Maybe skipping a few steps even.

[John McEntee]

It wasn't until summer of 16 when I started traveling with them that I developed a little bit of a relationship. Still not that close, although I was traveling with him every day. It was a familiar face that maybe he felt comfortable with.

[Devin Gordon]

Why do you think he liked having you around?

[John McEntee]

I like to think I have a calm demeanor. You know, I like. I don't think I get frazzled. He probably liked that. I know he liked central casting. He probably thought I looked the part of what an age should look like.

[Devin Gordon]

Trump liked that, that he looked the part. And I remember thinking, like, this is the only person I've ever heard describe themselves as out of central casting and be totally fine with it. Like, not be like, you know, a little bit insulted, but be gl had to. To just look the part as. Look like someone who should have the job of standing next to Donald Trump.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Not the most diverse cast.

[Devin Gordon]

No.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, I would dare say no.

[Devin Gordon]

I mean, when, if you're thinking of the words the phrase central casting and what is Trump picture? What does Donald Trump picture when he says central casting? I think we all know what we're looking at.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. A bunch of high school quarterbacks who look like they are leaders to a person who watches American life through, like, movies from the 80s.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah. It's like Republican Barbie and Ken Y. Right. That's what we're picturing. And Johnny McEntee very enthusiastically describes himself as fitting that part right out of central casting. And, you know, that was an interesting insight into the unreflectiveness, I think, of the Trump experience. It's just sort of not even questioning what central casting is and why central casting is generally considered problematic.

[Pablo Torre]

So, Devin, what I have in front of me, thanks to you, is this fable, this fable of modern American politics. We have the former UConn trick shot quarterback, viral sensation. Before virality was a thing becoming inspired existentially by Donald Trump coming down the golden escalator. Given all of the preceding details, despite his virality and his central cast casting effect, he knew, yeah, not to be the face of things, that he wasn't actually there to be the star quarterback. He was there to be what?

[Devin Gordon]

He has this sense now that his job is to be completely in the background and that that's the way to get ahead, make himself useful, ascend the escalator of the Trump campaign experience.

[John McEntee]

He likes anyone that will do their job, do it quietly. You know, there's only one star of the show. That's a lot of the reason why I never got into social media. I never really had a desire, but I thought it was best if I just did my work quietly. Kind of stayed under the radar when it came to politics. And that did serve me well.

[Pablo Torre]

But that is something that I didn't infer based on all of the traits that we've been describing. This central casting character who is like, in his mind, like viral quarterback, he is not there. He seems to know this very, very immediately. He's not there to be the star or the face of this. Obviously, it reminds me of the dual.

[Devin Gordon]

Role of a quarterback. Right there is this sort of icon of a quarterback as being at the center of the huddle, leading the team. Prom king, prom king, charisma machine. Everybody's looking to him. But there's another job of the quarterback, which is to do whatever the head coach says. Be very deferential, be loyal, execute the game plan, follow instructions. And Johnny is, it turns out, equally good at that and especially proficient at knowing the right time. For each of those jobs, he immediately slips into this role where he's doing everything and anything that Trump needs to the point where eventually, you know, when we're in the White House, he's got a desk right outside the Oval Office, he's with the president morning, noon and night. He's by his side wherever he goes. He's on Air Force One, he's at Mar a Lago, he's waiting outside the bathroom with the golden toilet. He's the guy. And his job becomes Trump's body man.

[John McEntee]

If you're a young person, the best job in politics is personal aid to the president. You know, the guy who's always with the candidate. It's called the body man. He travels with him, he meets, you know, he knows what he wants, he's with him 24 7, I thought, that is the coolest job I've ever heard of him. I could be that this was a.

[Devin Gordon]

Huge job that he had ascended to, because you're kind of like the President's butler. It's much more than a gopher, even if it does have, you know, a lot of gopher responsibilities.

[Pablo Torre]

But the proximity to power is. Is physically, it's literally unrivaled.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah, he. He would, like. One of his duties was, like, he literally walked Trump up the stairs to the White House private quarters at night. So, like, other than Melania's stunt double, he was the last person to see Donald Trump every night.

[Pablo Torre]

But now, now I have questions. I have many, many questions about what the. What the life of Donald Trump is like behind these closed doors.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah, give me Trump's KFC order.

[John McEntee]

Well, no, we would usually just do a bucket of fried chicken and let him pick out which pieces he would like. You know, nothing.

[Devin Gordon]

Nothing crazy, but are we original crisp?

[John McEntee]

Yeah, original, Original, yep.

[Devin Gordon]

According to Johnny, Trump was very particular about getting a bucket that everyone shared because he was a man of the people. Of course, preferred original recipe.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right.

[Devin Gordon]

Make.

[Pablo Torre]

Make Kentucky Fried Chicken great again for the American people. That's right.

[Devin Gordon]

He was trusted with the. With the fast food order. But that's sort of the light side of things. Like, one thing that he told me that I thought was really funny was that he mastered the ability to forge Donald Trump's signature.

[Pablo Torre]

Wait, what?

[Devin Gordon]

Which is a federal crime.

[Pablo Torre]

I was going to point that out, by the way.

[Devin Gordon]

I think he would play this prank on people in the West Wing where he would leave notes for people with the impression that they were from. From the boss. So he's just, you know, just going around the West Wing leaving federal crimes on people's desks. And so we had him actually, you know, we wanted to check it out. And so after the interview, we actually had him sign a piece of paper as Donald Trump, and it was bang on. It was conviction level.

[Pablo Torre]

This is a hell of a power to have.

[Devin Gordon]

And that brings us to sort of the darker side, I guess, of what he's, you know, what he's learning and being mentored in at the White House.

[John McEntee]

When we got into the White House, his longtime aide, Keith Schiller, really took me under his wing. And then Keith and I worked together for the first six months of the administration.

[Devin Gordon]

This guy is Trump's chief security guard from way back. This is the guy who knows everything about Donald Trump. He knows, proverbially speaking, where all the bodies are buried, because he buried them. You know, Pretty soon, Keith isn't in the White House for very long. He leaves and sort of slips back into the shadows. And in a lot of ways, Johnny kind of fills some of those voids and becomes, you know, Trump's. He would very quickly become a guy known as Trump's chief enforcer.

[John McEntee]

I just learned, you know, how to act around the boss. That's what we call the president, and how to just be, you know, a loyal aide that gets the job done. I think Keith understood when to talk, when not to talk, certain needs. So figuring all these things out, I mean, Keith's just a great guy. He likes to keep a low profile. But I'm very grateful that he showed me the ropes and, like, taught me everything I knew.

[Devin Gordon]

He had this great line that I'm definitely borrowing. Someday.

[John McEntee]

We had a saying, whales that surface get harpooned.

[Devin Gordon]

You know, interesting.

[John McEntee]

So if you want to do the work, just do the work. I think the loudest people in politics are doing the least.

[Devin Gordon]

It's a really good line. Shouts to Keith Schiller for having that line. And I think that that helps explain how someone like Johnny Mac, who has become a viral sensation before viral sensations were a thing, a starting quarterback for a Division 1 program, someone whose appeal to Trump is his central casting, clean cut, good looks, understands and senses when it's the right time not to be that guy, when it's time to not surface and let the other people be the whales who get harpooned. And we know how much Trump likes absolute loyalty, and we know how much he likes people who look the part. And Johnny checks those boxes.

[Pablo Torre]

But in terms of just the mundane, to now get a little more invasive, like, what would Donald Trump and Johnny McEntee do while just, like, hanging out? Like, what does that look like?

[Devin Gordon]

You know, I asked. I asked Johnny. I was like, could you just like, is there a TV show he liked? A movie, something like that? And Johnny was like, he really liked the Greatest Showman.

[Pablo Torre]

This is the. For people who don't know, this is.

[Devin Gordon]

Like Hugh Jackman, the Hugh Jackman musical. P.T. barnum at your service.

[Pablo Torre]

I am putting together a show, and I need a star.

[Devin Gordon]

You want people to laugh at me?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, they're laughing anyway.

[Devin Gordon]

Kids might as well get paid. Which, you know, it's one of those things where you hear it and you're like, trump liked the Greatest Showman. And then you hear Johnny's explanation, which is that Trump really liked P.T. barnum, and you're like, oh, yeah, okay.

[Pablo Torre]

Now, now, deeply, deeply on the nose.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah. But there is this thing of like, like Trump folks being really into, like, musical theater. Like, Johnny was planning to see Moulin Rouge on Broadway for the second time the night of our interview. He's a big, big, big, big, big fan of Moulin Rouge.

[Pablo Torre]

This man contains multitudes.

[Devin Gordon]

Sure.

[Pablo Torre]

When do things get real topsy turvy for this administration?

[Devin Gordon]

We're getting into 2017, early 2018. We're about a year, a year and a half into the administration. And while Johnny is quickly ascending the ladder and ingratiating himself to Donald Trump and everyone in the office, frankly, he's just one of the more well liked guys around the, around the building. What we know from the outside is that the Trump administration is absolute chaos. Right. People stabbing each other in the back, leaks everywhere. And a man named John Kelly is brought in as Trump's Chief of staff.

[John McEntee]

He will do a spectacular job, I have no doubt.

[Devin Gordon]

John Kelly is brought in to bring order and discipline. He's gonna be the adult in the room. And one of the first things he does is he starts trying to consolidate access to the President. Cut off all these people that Trump is calling for opinions. And one of his top targets is Johnny McEntee. You might recall around this time in the news, there were a lot of stories about how all these Trump employees were having trouble at the White House getting security clearance. Cuz red flags kept going up.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Devin Gordon]

It turned out that a lot of these hooligans that Trump was hiring out of God knows where had problems getting security clearances for very simple reasons. Well, very conveniently for this new Chief of staff, John Kelly, a red flag was went up on Johnny. And another firing. President Trump's longtime personal aide, John McEntee is out of his job. A source says McEntee was fired because he is under investigation for serious issues related to gambling and taxes. When there were stories starting to be written about why Johnny McEntee was on shaky footing in the White House, I assumed it was because he had a gambling problem and that there are big gambling losses. It turns out that a rather large sums of money were appearing in his bank account and they were due to gambling winnings. He said.

[John McEntee]

That is true. I was probably being a little careless, especially the role I was in. You know, I had no business doing that. That was the case, though.

[Pablo Torre]

Wait, so when you ask Johnny Mack about the reason he got fired.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

From the job that he loved.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

His explanation was what specifically though?

[Devin Gordon]

Okay, but tell me what did you get what did you win? What did you bet correctly on?

[John McEntee]

No, it was, it was playing blackjack and stuff like that.

[Devin Gordon]

Oh, oh, stuff like. It wasn't like sports or something like that. You're good at blackjack.

[John McEntee]

Then I got on a heater.

[Devin Gordon]

This is the low moment, the demise of Johnny Mac and what we would assume would be the end of the Johnny Mac story. Right? He's getting escorted out. He's crashed and burned. But within hours, the Trump reelection Campaign for 2020 issues a press release saying that Johnny McEntee has been hired by the Trump campaign, which very, which, which sort of lets you know what the boss thought of Johnny's firing. This was clearly not something that made him happy. This is, this is the period when Trump is growing to hate John Kelly.

[Pablo Torre]

Despite the org chart. Now, in Donald Trump's personal John power rankings, it's clear which one he actually favors.

[Devin Gordon]

Yes, John Kelly is at best number two and plummeting fast. In fact, within a year, John Kelly's out of the White House, fired by Donald Trump.

[Pablo Torre]

The departure of the retired Marine four.

[Devin Gordon]

Star general once tasked with bringing order to the Oval Office is just the latest shift in the President's inner circle. And Johnny McEntee is right back outside the Oval Office, restored to his spot. Only this time, he's not the body man. He's gotten, he's gotten a big promotion.

[Pablo Torre]

And his new job with Tael presumably tucked between his legs, is what?

[Devin Gordon]

Well, I mean, you know, I think this is one of those moments where again, I'm thinking, ah, man, I've underestimated Johnny McEntee again. He comes back bigger and better than ever. It's Johnny McEntee 2, the sequel, right? His new job is a job that I didn't even know existed, but it's a really big one. He is the director of the Presidential Personnel Office turns out to be one of those incredibly important, incredibly influential jobs in the federal government. And what he's basically doing is he's choosing the people who become Cabinet secretaries, you know, under secretaries, you know, top intelligence officials, ambassadors. When you hear someone on the news talk about a person being handpicked by Donald Trump, Johnny was doing the picking. That's the job that he came back to, Dear God, in 2019.

[Pablo Torre]

So Johnny Mac 2 Electric Boogaloo has him picking Cabinet secretaries and diplomats and all sorts of jobs that, by the way, kind of essential.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah, I mean, he's helping Trump execute his foreign policy. So he's, he's the one like calling the Secretary of Defense and saying, no, no, no, no, no, the boss doesn't want you to do that. He wants you to do this trick shot. Johnny Mac, the guy who less than a decade earlier was bouncing footballs off the turf into a door to open it from 50 yards away, is now, you know, executing American foreign policy.

[Pablo Torre]

He is now throwing a football off the turf and accessing the nuclear football.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah. Just clunking it right into Iran.

[Pablo Torre]

So, so, so the obvious question.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

What experience has he had to justify any of this power?

[Devin Gordon]

Well, I asked him that. I asked him pretty bluntly, had you ever hired anyone for a job before?

[John McEntee]

No, I had not.

[Devin Gordon]

So you're walking into this job, Are you ever like, oh, my God, what the hell am I doing?

[John McEntee]

No, I. I had watched this job in my first stint at the White House, and there were a lot of problems with it. And, you know, from my time on the campaign, I knew a lot of people in Trump world and everyone was having an issue with this particular office. And because I was so close to the President or Canada at that time and watching all this happen, I had an understanding of what needed to be done. So I was actually pretty confident that I could do it.

[Devin Gordon]

Sounds like one person that you hired, Andrew Kloster, I think his name had a really interesting quote that I gather he shared with you as sort of like a. He said, you can learn policy, you can't learn loyalty. Does that sort of drive what you were sort of looking for? In a lot of ways, yeah.

[John McEntee]

I think we just need it to be sort of mission aligned. And at the end of the day, if you're competent enough and you're aligned, like, we can get a lot done. We might have had the competency with certain appointees, but we didn't have the alignment. And that just doesn't work.

[Devin Gordon]

This is around the time when the mainstream media, the political press starts to get interested in Johnny McEntee. There start to become some stories about him, and it's noteworthy that he's not quoted in any of them. He's never on tv. He's, you know, he's not gonna get harpooned. But he starts being referred to in the media as Trump's enforcer, even a shadow president. In one article I read, he refers to a group of Republicans in the Trump White House, the people he's working with on a daily basis as NPCs, non player characters. Maybe we should define it just in case you're not familiar with NPCs, but basically what he's saying is they're pro Trump, but not really doing anything.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, Non player characters in the role playing video game of Trump World.

[Devin Gordon]

And there's an article in the Atlantic that is literally titled the architect of January 6th. And this is an article about Johnny McEntee. Yes. And look, I don't know that that article necessarily makes a persuasive case that anyone other than Donald Trump was the architect of January 6, but it does give you the sense of just how far this guy has traveled from that athletic center after midnight in 2011 with his knucklehead buddies. But it is noteworthy that in that Atlantic story, he was accused of effectively being the head of a Trump Gestapo, of using Gestapo tactics. And of course I asked him about that and he very quickly, politely and unruffled, you know, brushed off as, oh, that's just a left wing attack. How did you feel about, like in the, in the sort of more mainstream press, they're quoting people in the office where you're working in as describing as like the Stasi or the Gestapo. How did you feel about being called that?

[John McEntee]

It doesn't bother me at all. Yeah, I mean, we're there to do a job. If you're super conservative, they're going to attack you. This is one thing I learned in Trump World. It doesn't bother me at all. I think the more over the target you are, the more incoming you get. So we were just doing the best we could.

[Pablo Torre]

So where was. Now I'm deposing you. Where was John McEntee on January 6th?

[Devin Gordon]

He says that he had left work to pick up some dry cleaning, I believe, and was getting all these texts about some stuff going down over at the Capitol.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, stuff like that.

[Devin Gordon]

And he went over to his apartment to check it out on tv. And then of course, I asked him what he thought.

[John McEntee]

They were walking through the rope and stanchion. So I don't know if I would call them anything other than curious, enthusiastic people that took things too far.

[Devin Gordon]

Give riot warning, going to try to get compliance. But this is now offensively a riot.

[John McEntee]

49 hours declaring it a riot. You know, I didn't think, oh, this is some insurrection. Or, you know, I just thought, geez, these people, like, how are there so many people and why are they on that? And, you know, like, I just thought, like, whoa, they're really going for it.

[Pablo Torre]

Devin, the phrase, wow, they're really going for it. Yeah, that's like what you would observe about a college football game that you didn't care about. Yeah, like, oh, wow, they went for it on fourth down, huh? Yeah, that's a risk.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah, that's what the. How about that?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, okay, so I'll just say this as my bull detector is, I believe, just like deafening in my own head. I don't believe. At the very least, I'm deeply suspicious of the way in which he conveniently is not at the thing that is the most indicting of all of the things you would imagine.

[Devin Gordon]

And he didn't get indicted so precisely. So, you know, there's either. There's a couple of explanations there, which is one, he's telling the truth. Number two, he's lying for some reason. Number three is that he's turned on Donald Trump.

[Pablo Torre]

Hell of a plot twist.

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And it begs another question which is like, so what is Johnny McEntee doing now?

[Devin Gordon]

The short answer is that he created an app. Johnny started a right wing dating app called the Right Stuff. It is an app for conservative singles. In fact, the way I located Johnny Mac and set up our interview was I followed the right stuff on Instagram and I slid into their DMs. That's how I hooked up with the right stuff. And I started texting with someone, DMing with someone who I assumed to be the social media director. And very quickly, after a few exchanges, realized I was texting with Johnny Mac.

[Pablo Torre]

Which is all to say that Johnny Mac, true to his origin story, is answering the emails that you might suspect that people are too good for.

[Devin Gordon]

Exactly. He's the CEO and he's the social media director and he's also a client.

[Pablo Torre]

So you gotta explain what this. Like, how does a right wing dating app like work?

[Devin Gordon]

Well, let me back up and say that if this seems like a complete 180 or just an out of nowhere plot twist career change, Johnny actually has a pretty tidy explanation for it. That kind of makes sense.

[John McEntee]

Everything I'm doing, I'm trying to help the conservative movement with the dating app. I mean, there's a dating app for almost every group. We thought, why not there be one for Republicans?

[Devin Gordon]

Half of his, you know, career and work is focused on bringing another conservative administration back to the White House in 2020. And the other half of his career is getting conservatives laid. And he wanted to create a safe space for conservative singles to meet and mingle.

[John McEntee]

So how have the other apps been getting too woke? Like, what's going on? Yeah, I mean, the leftism is actually built into them by the tags and the stickers and the things they fund. So you're giving them your Business. And then they're going. And if you look at their social media accounts or any of these things, they're promoting very far left. Not to mention, conservatives can't be themselves openly because of the hostility we face. So we're putting everyone in one place.

[Pablo Torre]

Man who was hiring ambassadors and cabinet secretaries. His screening process for conservative singles is what?

[Devin Gordon]

Yeah. So in order to join the app and sign up, you go through a questionnaire that sort of susses out your beliefs, your alignment with other people. Basically, it's to weed out the libs.

[Pablo Torre]

And the survey portion of the registration process entails what sorts of questions.

[Devin Gordon]

My favorite Bible verse, of course.

[Pablo Torre]

Of course.

[Devin Gordon]

That's a good opener. Love that one. A random fact I love about America is there's a lot of finish this sentence kind of things, and my favorite of this variety is January 6th was.

[Pablo Torre]

It'S just perfect. It's perfect.

[Devin Gordon]

And then there's another one that is another fill in the blank. Favorite liberal lie. And liberal lie is sort of a recurring theme for him in his social media videos. And so, of course, I asked him, knowing how popular a series this was with his audience, what is his favorite liberal lie?

[John McEntee]

Oh, I have a lot. Anything related to Covid, but if you want a more mainstream one that's controversial. Diversity is our strength.

[Devin Gordon]

Okay. Yeah. That's a liberal lie.

[John McEntee]

I think so. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay.

[Devin Gordon]

It made me think back to the central casting line where there's just this sort of close your eyes picture of what America is and should be. And that fundamentally, when he closes his eyes, he sees the same thing as Donald Trump. And if you feel that way, you're, I suppose, kind of sick of the idea that that picture needs to be changed or redrawn.

[Pablo Torre]

We like Original Recipe America.

[Devin Gordon]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, Devin, it just. My instinct truly is to be like, I don't even want to take this guy seriously, and I don't want to have to even give it the oxygen of a rebuttal. Except for the fact that the vibe I get from your reporting at the end here is that Johnny McEntee really matters.

[Devin Gordon]

He actually has a second job, sort of a side job, in this thing called Project 2025, which he is a consultant on, that is basically gathering names, gathering applications to staff the federal government when and if Donald Trump wins again. I mean, this article in Puck describes the leadership of Project 2025 considering Johnny McEntee to be their, quote, secret weapon. So the secret weapon also happens to be the guy whose main hustle right now is running a right Wing dating app and seeing Moulin rouge on the 48th, I believe, of 51st dates, it's the same guy. These are his two jobs. And in some ways, that's perfectly fitting who Johnny McEntee is.

[Pablo Torre]

It really is. It is a life of trick shots that I think reveals a lot about how I guess the American dream actually works for some. I just wonder, Devon, if you are left here with the same foreboding feeling creeping in the back of my head, which is, I wouldn't be surprised if his girlfriend undershot it.

[Devin Gordon]

There were several times over the course of my interview with him where I thought, is this guy gonna be president?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. I mean, why not? At this point, I think if Trump.

[Devin Gordon]

Were to regain the White House in 2024, it's pretty clear that he'll be part of that campaign process.

[John McEntee]

I think right now I'm better assisting him in his pursuit of the presidency. So I don't know if I'll actually go work in an administration, but I definitely want to help staff it, get on the right track, get good people in that can just help see the mission through.

[Devin Gordon]

It certainly seems like Trump would want him there. And by the way he describes it, it's pretty hard to resist the glamour of it.

[John McEntee]

I don't think he ever gets sick of it. It's pretty exciting. It's one of those things where you'll ask people, oh, you're a rock star. Oh, you're in the NFL or what's it like? And they'll say, it's nothing like the movies. However, working at the White House is exactly like the movies.

[Pablo Torre]

Really?

[John McEntee]

Yeah. It's fast paced. You're on a helicopter, you're on Air Force One. It's crazy. It's exciting. You're watching history unfold.

[Devin Gordon]

I think it's noteworthy that when John McEntee is describing the job of being the White House and the lure of it, you know, a lot of people in those positions talk about helping people and changing the world and all of.

[Pablo Torre]

These things like service, service.

[Devin Gordon]

And even if they don't mean it, they're supposed to say that. That's what they say. And Johnny doesn't say that.

[Pablo Torre]

It's a remarkable bluntness that feels like honesty. It's the inverse of the JFK quote.

[Devin Gordon]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

He's literally asking, what can my country do for me?

[Devin Gordon]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Make me feel cool.

[Devin Gordon]

Ryan on the chopper.

[Pablo Torre]

Devin Gordon, thank you for sending a Chill up my spot.

[Devin Gordon]

Happy to do it.

[Pablo Torre]

So what I found out today is that if you wanted to make the ultimate Trump world character you could not do better than Trick Shot Johnny Mac, a self made YouTube star before those even really existed, who used everything he learned while being repeatedly sacked at UConn to get hired by the Trump White House and then fired by the Trump White House and then hired back by the Trump White House to do the hiring, while secretly never leaving Donald Trump's innermost circle this entire time, including right now, as he is, you know, running this right wing dating app, he is the most powerful Trump world figure that until today, I didn't know nearly enough of about. In fact, the greatest trick that Johnny Mack ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist. This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production and I'll talk to you next time.