Exclusive: Phil Mickelson, the Pipeline and Trump's (Alleged) 14-Inch Pipe

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Exclusive: Phil Mickelson, the Pipeline, and Trump's (Alleged) 14-Inch Pipe"

Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Host: Pablo Torre (The Athletic)
Guest: Sam Koppelman (Hunterbrook Media)
Release Date: November 7, 2025

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Overview

This episode dives headfirst into the unlikely intersection of professional sports, high-stakes gambling, shady group chats, oil pipelines, and attempted political influence at the highest levels. Pablo Torre is joined by investigative journalist Sam Koppelman to unravel the bizarre saga of Phil Mickelson—the legendary (and infamous) gambler-golfer—his investment in a controversial oil pipeline, and a group of high-roller investors banking on the intervention of Donald Trump (and some, apparently, believing in the power of a "14-inch pipe").

The episode mixes investigative journalism with humor, touching on real political and financial corruption, and the oddities of American power networking.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Playbook of Appealing to Trump (03:00–06:00)

• Torre and Koppelman discuss a recurring theme: People in legal or financial distress try to appeal directly to Donald Trump for salvation.
  • “If you can just get in front of him, you’ve got a shot.” — Sam Koppelman (03:31)
• Examples: George Santos, various corporate execs, and convicted businessmen—seeking pardons or special favors through connections.

2. Phil Mickelson’s Erotic Group Chat and Pipeline Investments (06:45–09:00)

• The core investigative thread: Phil Mickelson sent an explicit, jokey message to a group chat of oil pipeline investors referencing “Big Daddy Trump” and a “14-inch” member—intentionally blending sexual innuendo and stock hype.
  • “Phil Mickelson messages a group of people... This erotic fanfic from Phil Mickelson reads, ‘Big Daddy Trump ready to swing his 14 inch in front of Newsom’s face. Will drive up any stock.’” — Sam Koppelman (07:03)
• The group chat consisted of investors in Sable Offshore, a company trying to restart a pipeline responsible for a devastating Santa Barbara oil spill in 2015.

3. How Sable Offshore Came to Be (11:00–13:00)

• Exxon couldn’t get the pipeline reopened in California, so they effectively offloaded the project to Jim “Big Jim” Flores, a colorful oilman.
• Flores' high-risk, high-reward approach and the gamble to get the pipeline operational become a magnet for someone like Phil Mickelson.
  • “It’s, in a way, the ultimate gamble. And so, of course, it appeals to the ultimate gambler, Phil Mickelson.” — Sam Koppelman (13:38)

4. Phil Mickelson’s Gambling Profile and Shady Stock Talk (14:07–17:30)

• Examined through the lens of extracts from gambler Billy Walters’ audiobook:
  • “The truth is, Phil liked to gamble as much as anyone I’ve met… Phil wagered a total of more than a billion dollars during the past three decades.” — Billy Walters (14:37, 16:23)
• Mickelson repeatedly messaged the group chat about inside info from “Big Jim,” including upcoming press releases and regulatory news likely to move the stock.
  • “I spoke with Jim this morning. An announcement is coming today after market closes…” — (22:05, paraphrased)
• “A law professor we spoke to told us that this sounds like violations of a couple different SEC rules...” — Sam Koppelman (22:32)

5. Money Lost and Group Chat Chaos (23:04–25:15)

• As Sable’s stock price collapsed, Mickelson and many investors lost substantial money—messages reveal desperation and plans to sell and rebuy shares.
  • “We need an actual prayer. I don’t see a clear path forward…” — Phil Mickelson, group chat (23:44)
  • “I’m very defeated right now…” (23:51)
  • “He then… sells half his stock… But then, Pablo, there's another message… where Phil says, I’m buying it back.” — Sam Koppelman (24:08)
• The last-ditch hope: getting Trump’s administration to bypass California regulators by shipping oil via tanker instead of pipeline, with plans to name the tanker “Trump One” and appeal directly to Trump with symbolic overtures.
  • “I've suggested this, it's been ramped up to DJT… we ought to change the name to Ocean America…” — Big Jim Flores (25:37)

6. Deflection, Deniability, and Doxxing (28:15–29:44)

• When Koppelman requested comment, Mickelson refused, then posted Koppelman’s phone number in the group chat, leading to doxxing attempts and prank Craigslist ads.
  • “They tried to dox me by putting up a Craigslist post with my number on it.” — Sam Koppelman (29:00)
• Sable initially denied the legitimacy of incriminating calls, claiming they were AI-generated, only to later confirm key details during a press conference.

7. Regulatory Fallout and the End of the Pipeline Dream (33:18–36:41)

• Sable’s stock crashed 60%+ post-exposé.
  • “It did not pump. It’s down like 60 or something percent since we published.” — Sam Koppelman (34:33)
• The Santa Barbara Board of Supervisors refused to transfer the pipeline's ownership, crediting Koppelman’s reporting as the “final straw.”
  • “The final straw for me was a Hunter Brook article which was as disturbing as anything I've read.” — Santa Barbara Board Member (35:15)

8. How Much Did Phil Lose? And His Shady Past (36:18–41:15)

• Phil’s investment estimated to be in the tens of millions; exact numbers unknown.
• His anxious texts: “Sable's making him too anxious to go on a hike or to go fishing…”
• Recap of Mickelson’s previous insider trading entanglements tied to Billy Walters (who went to prison, but was later pardoned by Trump).

9. How the Trump "Rescue" Playbook Works (42:01–46:21)

• Billy Walters’s commuted sentence (after inside trading conviction) is highlighted as a precedent for Sable’s “play”: Lobby Trump, use private connections, and hope for personal gain through political channels.
• Sable’s plan involved arranging a golf game between Phil Mickelson and Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick—Lutnick flatly denied any involvement or knowledge.
• “As you listen to that audio, it’s clear that Sable Offshore thinks… the Trump administration is going to greenlight them if only they put up big gold letters, rename the Pacific Ocean Ocean America, and book tea times for their cabinet secretaries.” — Sam Koppelman (46:21)

10. The End of the Group Chat and "Phil the Writer" (47:13–47:47)

• The group chat dissolved after doxx threats and exposure; Mickelson now has more time “to play golf, or write more erotic fanfic on X.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• "If you can just get in front of him, you’ve got a shot." — Sam Koppelman (03:31)
• "Phil Mickelson messages a group of people... This erotic fanfic from Phil Mickelson reads, ‘Big Daddy Trump ready to swing his 14 inch in front of Newsom’s face. Will drive up any stock.’" — Sam Koppelman (07:03)
• “We need an actual prayer. I don’t see a clear path forward…” — Phil Mickelson, group chat (23:44)
• “The sheer accounting of all of this... [Phil] wagered a total of more than a billion dollars during the past three decades.” — Billy Walters (16:23)
• "It did not pump. It's down like 60 or something percent since we published." — Sam Koppelman (34:33)
• “The final straw for me was a Hunter Brook article which was as disturbing as anything I've read.” — Santa Barbara Board Member (35:15)
• "Say what you will about Phil Mickelson, the man has conviction." — Sam Koppelman (39:21)
• “As you listen to that audio, it’s clear that Sable Offshore thinks… the Trump administration is going to greenlight them if only they put up big gold letters, rename the Pacific Ocean Ocean America, and book tea times for their cabinet secretaries.” — Sam Koppelman (46:21)
• "You know, I think he's got a lot of promise as a writer… I'm not sure I would deploy it on the platform known as X, but..." — Sam Koppelman (47:32)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:00 – "The Trump Playbook": How everyone in trouble tries to reach the ex-president
• 06:45 – The Phil Mickelson group chat "erotic fanfic"
• 11:00 – Origin story of Sable Offshore and the California oil pipeline
• 14:07 - 17:30 – Phil Mickelson’s gambling addiction, Billy Walters’ perspective, inside info leaks
• 22:05 – Evidence of insider information in group chat
• 23:44 – Phil’s desperate messages about the investment
• 25:19 – Sable’s plan to ship oil via tanker and appeal to Trump
• 28:15 - 29:44 – Phil’s response: doxxing the reporter, Craigslist pranks
• 33:18 - 35:15 – Regulatory response, stock price collapse, Santa Barbara Board votes pipeline down
• 36:18 - 41:15 – Unraveling Phil’s personal loss, his gambling profile, prior insider trading case
• 42:01 - 46:21 – The pattern of seeking Trump’s help, Sable’s farcical access maneuvers
• 47:13 - 47:47 – Group chat meltdown, the story’s absurd denouement

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Conclusion

Pablo Torre and Sam Koppelman do what they do best—dissecting urgent cultural weirdness with journalistic rigor and comedic verve. If you want to understand:

• How American celebrity, money, and politics entwine,
• What makes Phil Mickelson tick (hint: gambling, risk, and questionable DMs),
• Or how desperate investors might try to get "rescued" by political power,

...this episode will both inform and highly entertain.

Memorable takeaway:
“The plan is US Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick is going to play golf with Phil Mickelson...” (45:20) — The fact that this was considered a plausible linchpin in a multi-million-dollar rescue plot is remarkable, and a fitting summary of the episode’s bizarre intersection of worlds.

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Further Information:

• The full article and primary source documents are available via Hunter Brook Media.
• Pablo notes that Phil Mickelson has gone quiet on Sable Offshore since these revelations.

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Listen if you enjoy:
Investigative journalism, sports gossip, tales of American excess, and a healthy dose of unfiltered podcast banter.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out I am Pablo Toure. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[Sam Koppelman]

Big Daddy Trump, ready to swing his 14 inch in front of Newsom's face, will drive up any stock right after this ad.

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Sam Koppelman]

What'S your caffeine intake?

[Pablo Torre]

I just do coffee, which I didn't all day until two years ago. I do like two.

[Sam Koppelman]

You didn't do it at all until two years ago. This show, this, this show did.

[Pablo Torre]

It has ruined my nervous system. Yeah, that's what I need to meet you at this desk again. Sam Koppelman.

[Sam Koppelman]

Yeah, here we are.

[Pablo Torre]

The last time you were at this desk, by the way, the two of us investigated whether the Chinese government had been stealing athlete brain waves, which ended.

[Sam Koppelman]

Up spurring an investigation by the House Committee on Energy and Commerce announced in September. I did not know that that committee was listening to the Pablo Torre Finds out podcast.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I like to think that they came for the taste testing athlete weed episodes and stuck around for the weed episodes.

[Sam Koppelman]

Stay for the Chinese brainwaves.

[Pablo Torre]

Stay for the geopolitical scandals we uncover with you. And yet, the story that you're here at the desk to discuss today, the story you've been working on, is even weirder and even bigger in its own key. I Dare say.

[Sam Koppelman]

Yeah, it's a bit girthier, this story, for sure. Absolutely.

[Pablo Torre]

I want to get into this story, as it were, by explaining a thing that I think all of us are numb to in America. I mean, you're still quite familiar with politics in the United States as an author, as a former speechwriter, as a guy who studies the political system. And it's mind blowing once you take a just a beat to think about how there is this playbook for every single person who's in trouble, legally, financially, which is to just appeal directly to Donald Trump.

[Sam Koppelman]

If you can just get in front of him, you've got a shot.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. I'm thinking of, of course, former New York Congressman George Santos, who has a resume that you'd laugh out of. I mean, was almost literally laughed into jail because of it. I think of the co founder of Aspiration, a guy I'm quite familiar with now, Joe Sandberg, hiring Mark McCasey, a former Trump attorney. And then I discovered that Chauncey Billups, another subject of our investigations, hired Mukasey as well because of the NBA gambling and poker stuff, only to then see that Terry Rogier, the current NBA player embroiled in those same indictments, hired a gentleman by the name of Jim Trusty, which is of course a perfect name for a Trump attorney, which of course, Jim Trusty also was.

[Sam Koppelman]

The reason people are doing this is because it works. I mean, there's a couple examples. Like there's this guy, Trevor Milton, I don't remember that company, Nikola. They had those giant trucks, and the scam was that there was this video they posted of this massive truck coming down a hill. And it turned out the truck didn't actually have an engine or anything. They were just dragging it down. And he hired a guy named Brad Bondi. And if the reason that last name is familiar to you, it is because his sister is Pam Bondi, the United States Attorney General.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, yes.

[Sam Koppelman]

And Milton gets pardoned and ends up on Tucker Carlson as a conservative icon. Another one that I love is cz, the guy who ran Binance, you know, the, the bet noir of Sam Bankman Fried, who himself. Exactly. Went to prison. And his indictment was one of my favorite ones ever. One of the great smoking guns, because his CCO said in writing, we are oper a unlicensed security exchange in the usa, bro. He was sentenced and put in prison. And then CZ backed the crypto company of Trump's kids and he had his sentence commuted, just like Milton.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. And then in the media circuit, we Hear Donald Trump on 60 Minutes.

[Sam Koppelman]

The government at the time said that.

[Jessie and Lenny Ware]

CZ had caused significant harm to US national security, essentially by allowing terrorist groups like Hamas to move millions of dollars around. Why did you pardon him?

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, are you ready? I don't know who he is.

[Sam Koppelman]

I know he got a four month.

[Pablo Torre]

And the thing that bothers me is that we're numb as a country to the fact that this is just a practice.

[Sam Koppelman]

It's an everyday kind of a thing.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, I remember playing like some war growing up and then you'd get the kid who just like goes helicopters and they come over the top and it's like that's what the justice system is like. You can just call for help from up above and the rules don't matter anymore. But I think the best, or at least my favorite case study as it relates to this trend of corruption has to do with arguably the most prolific gambler, it turns out, in athlete history. And Phil Mickelson is someone who has tweeted at both of us in the last week, by the way, which we will explain here. But the message he sent that is the core of why I invited you into this studio was both private and about privates.

[Sam Koppelman]

It was indeed about privates. It was, dare I say, a fairly erotic message.

[Pablo Torre]

It was a new addition to, yes, a canon of literature that I didn't quite know existed.

[Sam Koppelman]

Phil Mickelson messages a group of people will identify later. This erotic fanfic from Phil Mickelson reads, big Daddy Trump ready to swing his 14 inch in front of Newsom's face. Will drive up any stock.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I think everybody in America has been waiting for the Gavin Newsom, Donald Trump. Yeah, just like deeply sexual fan fiction.

[Sam Koppelman]

Totally. This is the erotica the kids have been waiting for.

[Pablo Torre]

Complimentary and also very open minded and potentially deeply, legally problematic.

[Sam Koppelman]

Deeply and. And bigly as. As it were.

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[Pablo Torre]

So just as a matter of what this message is, how it got into my memory seared there for all time. Now, to whom was Phil sending this?

[Sam Koppelman]

He was sending it to a. A group chat.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Sam Koppelman]

So this is a group chat of investors in a company called Sable Offshore.

[Pablo Torre]

And so I want to just visualize for everybody who is not familiar with anything related to finance and certainly not Sable Offshore. If this group chat was a physical room full of real life people, what would we be looking at?

[Sam Koppelman]

It'd kind of look like the hangover to the hotel room in that movie, but with fewer women.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. And a deep passion for this specific company.

[Sam Koppelman]

It sounds like yes for Sable Offshore, which I can tell You a little bit of the lore behind. I don't know if you remember, but in 2015, there was this giant oil spill in California.

[Pablo Torre]

Overnight, the governor of California declaring a.

[Sam Koppelman]

State of emergency in Santa Barbara as.

[Pablo Torre]

Disturbing new images show the growing impact of the major oil spill off the coast.

[Sam Koppelman]

Volunteers collecting hundreds of buckets of oil.

[Pablo Torre]

From this beach, yet hardly making a dent.

[Sam Koppelman]

Sable Offshore is trying to bring the pipeline responsible for for that spill back.

[Pablo Torre]

Just based on that news coverage, it does not seem like that pipeline would be a great investment.

[Sam Koppelman]

Well, Exxon did spend seven years trying to reopen this pipeline. And every time they ran into problems getting it approved by California, which is understandably worried about a travesty like this happening again.

[Pablo Torre]

All the animals covered in oil.

[Sam Koppelman]

Exactly. And for Exxon, cleaning up this pipeline, closing it down would cost billions of dollars. And so instead they did something else with it.

[Pablo Torre]

And so as a matter of corporate strategy, that something else is they basically.

[Sam Koppelman]

Gave this oil project, the Santa Ines unit, to this kind of cowboy oilman named Jim Flores, better known as Big Jim Flores on account of his large stature.

[Pablo Torre]

And so it's hard not to paraphrase, there will be blood here. But Big Jim is an oil man.

[Sam Koppelman]

He is indeed an oil man. And his career has been one befitting a Paul Thomas Anderson movie. Big ups, big downs, big swings. Sold a company for over a billion dollars, had another company go into bankruptcy. And this is kind of the last big swing for Big Jim and the way it works.

[Pablo Torre]

So like Exxon gives Big Jim the.

[Sam Koppelman]

Pipeline, they basically gave him a huge loan and was like, you can use our money to go take over this pipeline and maybe it doesn't work. Maybe you have the same fate as us. And then Exxon will take the pipeline back. But if you can get it approved, if you can get it online, can bring this, you will make billions and billions of dollars. It's, in a way, the ultimate gamble. And so of course, it appeals to the ultimate gambler, Phil Mickelson.

[Pablo Torre]

And that superlative is not one that we can claim ourselves. This is a reputation that is actually, it seems, empirically validated by no less a source than his now estranged gambling partner, Billy Walters, who provides a in his book and audiobook, a dossier that is also overflowing with some pretty crude material.

[Sam Koppelman]

Billy Walters, who it should be noted, was known as the greatest sports better of all time.

[Billy Walters]

The truth is, Phil like to gamble as much as anyone I've met. I've known some of the biggest gamblers in the world to Give you an idea of how much Phil like to gamble. He called me in September of 2012 for Madonna Country Club outside Chicago with an astounding request. He asked me to place a $400,000 wager for him on his own United States team to beat the Europeans in a 39th Rider Cup.

[Pablo Torre]

The narrator here is in fact Billy Walters himself, not Sam Elliot, which is understandable. Bit of confusion if you have that.

[Sam Koppelman]

At least it was on his own team.

[Pablo Torre]

I was going to say that is. That is better than the alternative. On the one hand, I can't believe.

[Sam Koppelman]

That that, that, that Phil Mickelson did this. He's never going to get into the Baseball hall of Fame.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, this was a concern actually that Billy Walters articulated, because Billy Walters very clearly wants you to know that he did not take this wager.

[Billy Walters]

He asked me to place a $400,000 bet for him on the US team to win. Once again, I could not believe what I was hearing. Have you lost your mind? I told him. Don't you remember what happened to Pete Rose? The former Cincinnati Reds manager was banned from baseball for betting on his own team. You're seen as a modern day Arnold Palmer. You'd risk all of that for this? I want no part of it. All right, all right, he replied before hanging up.

[Sam Koppelman]

I do think it's worth noting here that Billy Walters himself went to prison for insider trading. He is personally mad at Phil for reasons we'll get into later. And so what he says should be taken with some hefty grains of salt.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, look, the. The sheer accounting of all of this, if you trust Billy Walters as your narrator, can also be backed up by just a general accounting of how much money Phil liked to throw around.

[Billy Walters]

Based on our relationship and what I've heard from others, Phil wagered a total of more than a billion dollars during the past three decades. The only person I know who surpassed that kind of volume is me. During a 20 year period beginning in the mid-90s, Phil's losses approached $100 million. That amount is two and a half times higher than the $40 million reported by Alan Shipnook in his best selling unauthorized biography of Phil. He's a big time gambler and big time gamblers make big bets.

[Pablo Torre]

All which is to say that this big time gambler making big time bets meets Big Jim.

[Sam Koppelman]

Yes, they were allegedly on the board of a company together. And by allegedly, I mean that Phil Mickelson tweeted that before deleting that tweet. And at some point during their conversations, Big Jim tells Phil about this company he's starting with his son and a bunch of other guys called Sable Offshore to go get this old oil project from Exxon back online. And over the last few months, if any of you follow Phil Mickelson on Twitter, yes or X, you will see that Phil has tweeted hundreds of times.

[Pablo Torre]

It's about basically his identity now.

[Sam Koppelman]

Yes, he just tweets about, like, Gavin Newsom and California and Sable Offshore because he's a big investor in this company. And Pablo, I know it might sound kind of outlandish, but what you should understand is that for a minute, that seemed like an incredible bet. The kind of bet that could allow you to retire from the LIV Tour or at least switch from the LIV Tour to the PGA Tour, because Sable started getting some momentum. The Stock went from $10 to $18, which is. We'll come back to this later. Around where I think Phil got invested in it all the way up to $35. And there was one final thing they needed, which was approval from the state of California, from the fire marshal and a couple other agencies to get this project back online.

[Pablo Torre]

But as someone who has been following Phil Mickelson and his friends with golf writers, lots of golf reporters who have been following him for even longer, the texture of his, I would say hundreds of tweets about Sable Offshore, that texture mostly feels like desperation.

[Sam Koppelman]

Yes, there is a. There is a patina of gamblers anxiety. And in there, because Pablo, after sable stock hit $35, things started going a little bit worse for Big Jim and the gang, despite telling Phil and other investors that approval from California was just weeks away. Days away. And I have lots of sources who have told me that Jim and Sable kept making those kinds of assurances as the stock price started going down and as those approvals didn't come day after day, week after week. And as Sable started getting charged with felonies by California for some of the work that it was doing in the state, Phil and other investors started to become very, very, very worried.

[Pablo Torre]

Just how worried was our group chat full of bros about this?

[Sam Koppelman]

They were angry enough to reach out to me, someone who first wrote About Sable around 18 months ago, where I called it a pipe dream. And I think they reached out to me because they started to become afraid that I was right.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. So, Hunter Brook, Hunter Brook Media. I want to explain the premise here as to why these bros are turning to Sam Koppelman.

[Sam Koppelman]

So Hunter Brook's whole thing is we do accountability reporting, investigative reporting, dig deeper than anybody else you should follow along if you like. Pablo Torre finds out.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right.

[Sam Koppelman]

Like and subscribe is fantastic at investigations. But the thing about Hunter Brook, that's different from a lot of other investigative media outlets, we don't monetize with ads or paywalls. We monetize the impact of our reporting through two other businesses. One is called Hunter Brook Law, where if a company is committing crimes or poisoning a lake or poisoning the air, we can sue that company and get some restitution for the people who are harmed. And the other business is called Hunter Brook Capital, which can take positions in the market based on Hunterbrook Media's reporting. All of which we disclose in each of our articles. And so I think some of these Sable Long investors saw some of our disclosures last year that said that Hunter Brook Capital had bet against Sable Offshore.

[Pablo Torre]

And so the bros seeing all these disclosures, all this information that you're digging up and you're transparently providing, they send you what?

[Sam Koppelman]

Okay, so they send me two key things, two key pieces of evidence. One is a leaked phone call of big jam, some other execs from the company with a select group of elite investors who they tell certain things that they did not tell the public, which we'll get to in a minute. And the second thing is this treasure trove of a group chat where Phil Mickelson seems to be sharing what I have heard some securities regulators describe as inside information that he got directly from Big Jim. And just to give you an example of this, because some of these aren't particularly close calls, on September 29th, Phil writes the group. I spoke with Jim this morning. An announcement is coming today after market closes. It could be an 8K or press release. Not sure exactly what the details will be. I couldn't say anything until after the close. Lo and behold, about an hour later, Sable in fact releases a market moving SEC filing and press release as Jim told Phil that morning he would. And the stock moves.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, which sounds suspicious just on the base. Look again, as a pure. Just like what's happening here. Phil knows some stuff that people don't know and he's teasing the group chat about what he knows and maybe what therefore it suggests about the direction of the company.

[Sam Koppelman]

Correct. And a law professor we spoke to told us that this sounds like violations of a couple different SEC rules, including something called Reg FD that I'm not going to bore you with. But what's weird about this particular potential insider trading story, the saddest part of it is that even with some of this seemingly inside info, Pablo, I don't think these guys were making money.

[Pablo Torre]

So what was happening to their money?

[Sam Koppelman]

They were losing it. The stock price was going down.

[Pablo Torre]

And so in terms of that desperation, in the ways that it's expressed on Twitter, I got to say that when I started looking at the messages you were receiving, it put them into even sharper relief because the excerpts from the messages he was sending the chat, I mean, I should just read some of them here. We'll show them. Because in one of them he writes, quote, we need an actual prayer. I don't see a clear path forward in that one. He is basically admitting to planning to sell shares. In another one of them that you published, he writes, quote, I'm very defeated right now. And yet another message, he says, quote, I do it again, given the information we had, it sucks that maybe there's a last ditch effort to save it, and I think there should be, but it's not a path to invest in right now, end quote.

[Sam Koppelman]

He then, according to the messages, sells half his stock. He says he wants to de risk a little bit. But then, Pablo, there's another message very shortly afterwards where Phil says, I'm buying it back.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm not leaving.

[Sam Koppelman]

I'm not leaving.

[Pablo Torre]

And so all of this obviously tracks with Phil's alleged commitment to making the big bets that Billy Walters himself, of course, guilty of insider trading, had spoken about before in the book, the audiobook that we played. But this particular strategy, I just want to understand it. I want to, again, as I try to do with you, I want to steel man Phil Mickelson's logic. Why was he buying back the thing he said he needed a prayer to save?

[Sam Koppelman]

Because Pablo Sable does have one real move left, the same move that Chauncey and Trevor Milton and CZ were running, which is appealing directly to the Trump administration. And the reason we know that this is Sable's plan is because of that second leak. I got the phone call between Sable and investors. And the voices you're about to hear in that call include Big Jim. And the Sable guys are laying out a plan to have Donald Trump circumvent California entirely. And instead of sending the oil through Newsom State in a pipeline, they're going to put it in a boat and hope that Big Daddy Trump saves them.

[Pablo Torre]

So just. Just because I'm not super fluent in the world of oil pipelines, they're going to put the oil in a tanker.

[Sam Koppelman]

In a boat, According to this call, yes.

[Big Jim Flores]

And we're the number one project.

[Pablo Torre]

Which.

[Big Jim Flores]

The National Energy Dominance Council, because we're on board. And also, you heard it right here, guys. I've suggested this.

[Pablo Torre]

It's been.

[Big Jim Flores]

It's been ramped up to djt that we ought to change the name to Ocean America instead of Pacific Ocean and start drilling again out there. And I said. I said, how did you. I guess he liked it way too much, is the word I got back. So if you hear that, Ocean America, that's where it came from. What was he telling me? Put some gold leaf on the platform. Well, we've all also added that we were happy to plant. We need to know whether we need to paint the letters 50ft tall or 70ft tall for the Trump one on the side so we make sure Oprah can see her. See the.

[Sam Koppelman]

See the tanker for her.

[Big Jim Flores]

Mansion, you know, with.

[Sam Koppelman]

On.

[Big Jim Flores]

And he came back soon. He's, like, getting gold.

[Pablo Torre]

There's a lot going on in that call.

[Sam Koppelman]

Yeah. I should note that at first, when we asked Sable Offshore about this call, they said that the phone call was AI so.

[Pablo Torre]

So the DJT reference, Donald J. Trump, that's AI The Oprah.

[Sam Koppelman]

Yeah, the Oprah Montecito Mansion sound. They claimed that that was AI the.

[Pablo Torre]

Giant gold lettering on Ocean America, which is just obviously transparently designed in the retelling of this to appeal to Big Daddy Trump.

[Sam Koppelman]

This, they all say, is AI, which, if true, my God, we should all just quit our jobs, because that is some good.

[Pablo Torre]

I want to. I want to invest in that company 100%.

[Sam Koppelman]

In fact, in the group chat, which obviously Sable doesn't know we have access to. We see in messages that Big Jim went as far as to call investors and tell them, go tell everyone this is AI which, by the way, itself might have been securities fraud if they knew that the call was real.

[Pablo Torre]

And I just got a sort of, like, hit on this point here. What's been happening in the reporting of the story is that the bros in the group chat who are reaching out to you, they're not telling everyone else in the group chat that you're now in the group chat with them, basically.

[Sam Koppelman]

Correct. I just get to watch the group chat happen, essentially, as it's taking place.

[Pablo Torre]

God, it's like that Atlantic story about the signal, the war plans, except significantly dumber. I would say you're kind of just like there.

[Sam Koppelman]

This group chat makes Pete Hegseth and the boys look like they were very, very on their.

[Pablo Torre]

With their operational security, their opsec, in this case, in the case of Sable Offshore, not great. But, of course, these are serious allegations we're describing here. So Phil Mickelson, a very wealthy and famous man. What does he have to say about all of this?

[Sam Koppelman]

So I get Phil's number. Fun fact, Phil seems to change his number all the time. I figure out which is his current number, get him on the phone. He talks for a sec. He's like, who is this? And I'm like, I'm calling from Hunter Brook. He was like, no, thank you, and hangs up right away. And then he does something I've never experienced before as a reporter, which is that he then posts in the group chat my number and is like, warning guys, here's the number they called from. They're very curious about our group chat, doesn't think to leave the group chat and instead keeps posting about it.

[Pablo Torre]

The thing that gets posted in the group chat, which is the part that made me laugh out loud when I saw it, unfortunately for you, does involve Craigslist.

[Sam Koppelman]

Yes, they tried to dox me by putting up a Craigslist post with my number on it.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. So this is a Craigslist post. The title is Free dog food. Parentheses Lafayette. This is a place in California. Quote. Hey, y'. All. Sad story, but my old three and a half year great Dane finally done kicked her bucket. Got here about 350 pounds of Perinha dog chow. If somebody just wants to drop by and get it out of the carport. I'm on disability and cannot lift nothing too heavy. There are typos throughout the entire thing. Just for the record, my nephew Till will help you load it. Give him a call at your phone number.

[Sam Koppelman]

Correct. And I'm obviously watching this the whole time.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, they're. They're. They're loving what's happening to you at this point in the story.

[Sam Koppelman]

They are. Until I. I put all of this in our investigation, which we published last Friday. And then we finally got a response from Phil.

[Pablo Torre]

AI.

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[Sam Koppelman]

Hey, I never felt this way before.

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[Sam Koppelman]

And I owe it all to you.

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[Pablo Torre]

Because there's always something new.

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Ah, dsw. Birthplace of the humblebrag.

[Pablo Torre]

Here.

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[Pablo Torre]

About.

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[Pablo Torre]

So to catch people up, the way I enter this story in the public record is me, quote, tweeting your article at Hunter Brook that you referenced before. When you publish your revelations about these messages in this group chat and what I said in the Quote tweet on X, the Everything app was quote, why do I get the feeling that this is not the end of this story? And then later in the day as I'm just like walking through Manhattan, it's Halloween afternoon, I get a reply from Phil Mickelson. And the message that was screenshotted in that quote tweet, just for the record, here was the thing we described before about that 8K or press release coming after market closing. Not exactly sure what the details will be, couldn't say anything till after close, blah blah blah blah. And so Phil replies to me, quote, so a company says I can't say anything to you, but we will announce something at the close. I don't know if it's a dilution and the stock goes down or a deal for the stock to go up. I have to wait to see what the info is. I make no trades whatsoever and am ultra, ultra careful. Given past history, I don't even share that information. Is coming till after the close and you insinuate wrongdoing question mark. This looks like stock manipulation on their part and slanderous. Did they make any trades today, question mark? And my response to that naturally is, hi, Phil Mickelson, I'd love to continue discussing this on Pablo finds out and provide a real opportunity for you to answer questions. Could you please set up a time for us to talk? Thank you, exclamation point. And I'm here to regretfully inform our audience that he did not get back to me. So did he get back to you?

[Sam Koppelman]

He did not. Despite having my phone number, he did tweet that he would have a lawyer reach out to us tomorrow.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. And so just in the timeline here, when was that?

[Sam Koppelman]

Oh, on. On Halloween. Friday. Last Friday.

[Pablo Torre]

So the lawyer has reached out to you.

[Sam Koppelman]

No, we haven't heard anything from Phil Mickelson, who, by the way, as I mentioned, had been tweeting about Sable Offshore every day after his tweets to you and me, he's gone conspicuously quiet.

[Pablo Torre]

Sable, though, just as we get all of the legal responses in order here. Did Sable Offshore respond?

[Sam Koppelman]

So, to our initial story, they said, this is AI Then on Monday morning, they scheduled an emergency press conference where they announced that they'd opened an investigation with a special committee to look into our findings. And I will note that on that call, they did not refer to the leaked audio as AI. In fact, they confirmed a core part of it about how they were going to need to dilute shareholders, which was not great news for that group chat.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. And so for the shareholders, for the group chat, for the stock price, what was the. The share price's reaction?

[Sam Koppelman]

It did not pump. It's down like 60 or something percent since we published.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. The graph that I'm indicating, this seems like bad news for Sable Offshore, but good news, I presume, for Hunter Brook Capital, the financial arm of your company, which took a position on this based on your reporter.

[Sam Koppelman]

Yes, we disclosed that after our story came out, Hunter Brook Capital read it and did not decide to go long on Sable Offshore. They bet against it. And then later this week, there was actually a vote from the Santa Barbara Board of Supervisors where they voted to decline to transfer ownership of the pipeline from Exxon to Sable.

[Santa Barbara Board Member]

The final straw for me was a Hunter Brook article which was as disturbing as anything I've read. The fallout from that recorded phone call has already been severe, and this is before regulators have weighed in. I have many friends in the oil industry, and I will continue to support efforts to access our natural resources, but it has to be done responsibly by operators who put safety above profits. The evidence in this case is overwhelming. There is something wrong with the strategy of Sable's leadership.

[Sam Koppelman]

By the way, that guy is pro oil and gas and had previously voted to approve the transfer, but obviously, in light of the new information, just couldn't get behind taking that risk for the people of Santa Barbara.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, that was an unambiguous clip from that guy who seemed to both credit your reporting and also seemed at a loss for a way to spin this. And if you're Phil, like, I just want to get a sense of how much money he personally lost.

[Sam Koppelman]

So we don't know when he or if he resold the shares he bought back after selling them after buying them.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Sam Koppelman]

But we do have a sense from that same Billy Walters book you quoted from earlier of the size of the bets that Phil Mickelson was willing to take.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, that book, by the way, has a truly crazy degree of detail, a truly crazy degree of accounting on exactly how much Phil liked to spend as a sports gambler.

[Billy Walters]

After my business relationship with Phil ended, I learned a lot more about his betting from two very reliable sources in sports gambling. They said it was nothing for Phil to bet $20,000 a game on Long Shot 5 team NBA parlays or wager $100,000 or $200,000 a game on football, basketball and baseball. Based upon my detailed betting records and additional records provided by the sources, here's a snapshot of Phil's gambling habit. Between 2010 and 2014, he bet $110,000 to $100,000, a total of 1,115 times. On 858 occasions, he bet $220,000 to win $200,000. The sum of those 1973 gross wagers came to more than $311 million. In 2011 alone, he made 3,154 bets, an average of nearly nine per day. On one day in 2011, June 22, he made 43 bets on Major League Baseball games, resulting in $143,500 in losses. He made a staggering 7,065 wagers on football, basketball, and baseball.

[Pablo Torre]

And if you're wondering how is it possible that one man could be both one of the greatest golfers of all time, one of the greatest lefties we've ever seen in sports history, as well as this prolific when it comes to sports betting, Billy Walters also has a bit of surrounding context.

[Billy Walters]

Phil didn't let his playing in PGA tournaments get in the way of betting. Indeed, According to the 2010-2014 betting records, he made 1734 wagers on games during 29 events. This included 70 separate bets on baseball and preseason pro football. During the Barclays tournament in August 2011, where he shot 8 under and tied for 43rd, he won $415,000 in bets that weekend. On February 11, 2012, a busy college basketball Saturday, Phil blew himself up by running his betting losses to nearly $4 million, according to the gambling sources familiar with Phil's other bets. Even so, he displayed an incredible ability to compartmentalize. He shot 64 the following day to win the AT&T Pro Am at Pebble beach while playing with and demolishing Tiger woods by 11 shots.

[Pablo Torre]

All of which is to say that the guy is not afraid to put money down on a thing he thinks there's a shot at winning.

[Sam Koppelman]

Say what you will about Phil Mickelson, the man has conviction.

[Pablo Torre]

And so if you're going to mathematically just take an informed guess at what Phil was rooting for here, what he lost, what are you. How do you report that out?

[Sam Koppelman]

We don't have the exact financial information here. You know, I spoke to some of the Sable investors who seem to think at some point he and his partner owned like, 2% of the company, which could have been tens and tens and tens and tens and tens of millions of dollars, meaning he could have lost, like, tens of millions of dollars on this. We do have messages where it's clear Phil is just going through it. He's talking about how Sable's making him too anxious to go on a hike or to go fishing, how he's buying certain options but not others, so he'll have peace of mind. It definitely didn't seem like a low key, casual thing Phil was doing. As, by the way, to anybody who follows his Twitter account and notices that he's tweeted more about Sable Offshore, certainly than golf or his family or anything like that.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, it does seem to indicate that Phil Mickelson was so stressed out by Sable Offshore that he could not actually touch grass, which is a problem when you're, of course, also a golfer. But just as a point of clarification, his own personal history that he referred to before. Right. He said it in, in. In the, in. In the tweet that he said, ultra, ultra careful.

[Sam Koppelman]

Given his history, given past history, what.

[Pablo Torre]

Is the past history?

[Sam Koppelman]

So you know how Phil Mickelson used to make bets with Billy Walters. He was also embroiled in an insider trading case that the government brought against Walters that accused Mickelson of trading based on tips that were sent to him by Billy Walters.

[Pablo Torre]

And this did not go great, at the very least for Billy Walters.

[Billy Walters]

Las Vegas golf course owner and gambler.

[Sam Koppelman]

Billy Walters has been found guilty of.

[Billy Walters]

Using inside trade information to make millions of dollars.

[Pablo Torre]

And if you just keep digging into Billy's book, his feelings toward Phil about this specific chapter of his life are also unambiguous.

[Billy Walters]

Phil had an opportunity to testify at my trial to tell the truth about whether he received inside information regarding one of two stocks that I had recommended to him. Phil decided not to testify on my behalf. How did I feel? Completely betrayed.

[Sam Koppelman]

We should note Walters didn't actually end up serving that full sentence.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, we should note this for legal reasons and also because it turns out that Billy Walters, Phil Mickelson's old gambling buddy, decided to run a very familiar play.

[Santa Barbara Board Member]

Well, new tonight, President Trump is commuting the sentence of a Las Vegas philanthropist and professional gambler. Well, William Walters is serving five years in prison for insider trading. He has already served four years of that sentence and has paid also $44 million in fines as well.

[Sam Koppelman]

Which finally brings us back to the 14 inch from the first act.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, Chekhov's. We must, of course, pay it off.

[Sam Koppelman]

We must. And to jog your, your memory in case it's not seared into it forever.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I should, I should now, I guess, be on record quoting it. Big Daddy Trump in all caps. Trump ready to swing his 14 inch in front of Newsom's face will drive up any stock.

[Sam Koppelman]

And obviously the reason that Gavin Newsom is relevant here is that he is in charge ultimately of the office of the State Fire Marshal that Sable needed for approval. And what Phil is essentially saying is if Trump says off to Newsom with his genitalia, then perhaps the stock price of Sable Offshore can become more tumescent.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't think that's a group. That's a group chat word. I don't think that shows up in the record. I don't think tumescence is, is part of their.

[Sam Koppelman]

I wanted to show some class after saying all episode.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, listen, what Phil Mickelson, apparently what he believes now, as your reporting continued, is that the game is actually still not over.

[Sam Koppelman]

Correct. And Sable, for the record, is not dead yet. They are still trying to get support from the Trump administration. And one of the ways that they are going to try to do this, according to that leaked phone call, which I want to be clear, Phil Mickelson was not on, but he was alluded to on that call. As part of this final play, Sable wants to run, which involves a round of golf between, quote, a certain left hander and Commerce Secretary Howard Ludnick.

[Big Jim Flores]

And by the way, while you're sipping, I'm going to tell you, you might have a certain top buddy. Lefty. I've got a certain top buddy that's.

[Santa Barbara Board Member]

In the Commerce Department.

[Big Jim Flores]

Nice to know. Nice to know, guys, I'm on the way. I've had to promise Ludnick a golf game on the west coast with a certain left hand or something like that. I've already committed so we'll bounce him in.

[Pablo Torre]

How's that?

[Big Jim Flores]

Howard was told he can only have one Secret Service guy come to play instead of three video requests. When you come to the.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, so just to translate that again, like. So a certain lefty who happens to be, in this case, pivoting way right is trying to. It's trying. It's just hard not to take the layoffs when they're available. It's just hard not to just put it in when available.

[Sam Koppelman]

I think that, that. I think that that joke was more of a flop shot, but sure, it's fair.

[Pablo Torre]

The plan is US Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick is going to play golf with Phil Mickelson. And this, of course, raises the follow up journalistic question, which is, what did Howard Lutnick have to say about that?

[Sam Koppelman]

Okay, so I didn't speak to Howard Lutnick, but I spoke to a source very, very close to Howard Lutnick, super familiar with his thinking, who told me that Lutnick says he's never heard of Sable Offshore and does not have any plans to golf with Phil Mickelson. Honestly, and they didn't say this to me, but it seems like they might be a little bit offended that Howard Lutnick would need Big Jim to help him book a golf game with Phil Mickelson.

[Pablo Torre]

Hearing it all spelled out like this in these calls, in that quote, it does kind of feel a bit insulting to the Trump administration that the way everyone's trying to charm them is very predictable and very, like, almost infantilizing to the people they're trying to, like, charm here.

[Sam Koppelman]

Totally. As you listen to that audio, it's clear that Sable Offshore thinks that the Trump administration is going to greenlight them if only they put up big gold letters, rename the Pacific Ocean Ocean America, and book Tea Times for their cabinet secretaries.

[Pablo Torre]

By the way, whatever happened to the group chat? What happened to the. To the. To the room full of bros that you got to know in the course of your investigation?

[Sam Koppelman]

Well, Phil definitely should have more time to play in a golf game with Howard Lutnick, because unfortunately, the morning I published the story, there were a few more messages in the group chat, which is mind boggling, where some of the people in the group chat said that they were going to go find the rat responsible and show up at their door. Rat, A term used for people in fessing up to. To crimes.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right.

[Sam Koppelman]

Anyway, they said they were going to find the rat. Then the group chat, unfortunately, may it rest in peace, dissolved.

[Pablo Torre]

Which is to say that Phil Mickelson has more time to play golf on the beautiful coast of Ocean America. Or, you know, just keep writing. Keep writing, Phil.

[Sam Koppelman]

You know, I think he's got a lot of promise as a writer. I'm not sure I would deploy it on the platform known as X, but.

[Pablo Torre]

I do think he should deploy it in a genre that might be described.

[Sam Koppelman]

As xxx, you know, can't top that.

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo Torre finds out is produced by Walter Averoma, Maxwell Carney, Ryan Cortez, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, neely Lohman, Rob McRae, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor and Chris Tuminello. RStudio Engineering by RG Systems Sound Design by Andrew Bercik and NGW Post Theme Song as always by John Bravo and we will talk to you next time. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Jessie and Lenny Ware]

Hello, this is Jessie and Lenny Ware from Table Manners, a podcast direct from our dining table where we talk all things food, family, growing up and everything in between. And everything in between. This season we've had Reese Witherspoon reveal the greatest cookie, the recipe. We had Gary Oldman, who's freshly knew Sir Gary Oldman. Sir Gary Oldman. We did some singing with Gloria Estefan and Jeremy Alan White has shared some culinary stories with us. And it's not just this series. We've had plenty of other brilliant guests where you can listen back to all the episodes. People like Cher, Dolly Parton, Kate Winslet? S, Paul McCartney, John Legend, Benny Blanco and Selena Gomez. We've had them all and we fed them very well. Come and listen to Table Manners, the podcast we with me, Jesse Ware and Lenny Ware.

[Pablo Torre]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.