Podcast Summary:

Pablo Torre Finds Out — Exclusive: The NBA Player, the Congressman and the Epstein Files
Host: Pablo Torre
Air Date: December 2, 2025
Episode Theme: Investigating the Curious Life and Public Scrutiny of Tom McMillan in the Shadow of the Epstein Files

Overview

In this "talkumentary" edition of Pablo Torre Finds Out, host Pablo Torre embarks on a journalistic deep dive into the life of C. Thomas McMillan—a man whose resumé includes “All-American Olympian,” 11-year NBA veteran, Rhodes Scholar, three-term Democratic Congressman, and influential figure in college sports politics. The episode focuses on McMillan’s tangential place in the infamous Trump–Epstein Mar-a-Lago video, and explores his broader intersections with sports, politics, and recent rekindling of interest in the "Epstein Files." Torre confronts McMillan with historical footage, newly public documents, and lingering questions, drawing a portrait of how scandal and legacy can intersect in unexpected ways.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why the Epstein Video Matters to Torre (02:15)

• Torre explains the impetus for the episode: a viral video from 1992 featuring Donald Trump, Jeffrey Epstein, and, standing in the background, a "giant" man—Tom McMillan. The resurfacing of the Epstein Files prompts Torre to reach out.

  "As a sports journalist, the thing that caught my eye wasn't Trump or Epstein. It was a background character who had been hiding in a way that would otherwise be impossible. At six foot eleven, basically in plain sight." — Pablo Torre (03:33)

2. Tom McMillan’s Resume & Credentials (06:34)

• Torre lays out McMillan’s storied biography:

  • Ninth pick in 1974 NBA draft
  • Played for Buffalo Braves, Knicks, Hawks, and Washington Bullets
  • Rhodes Scholar, chemistry major, member of the President's Council on Sports and Fitness (appointed by Nixon, chaired under Clinton)
  • Three-term US Congressman, business leader, and lead figure in NCAA governance debates

  "You're a man in so many Rolodexes... the tallest ever member of Congress at 6'11." — Pablo Torre (07:24)

3. Breaking Down the Infamous Mar-a-Lago Video (08:42–14:18)

• McMillan recounts walking into a 1992 NFL promotional party at Mar-a-Lago, recently purchased by Trump—a party crowded with cheerleaders, celebrities, Trump, and Epstein.

• McMillan insists his presence was incidental, recalling little interaction with either Trump or Epstein and stating he “barely remembers” the night or much about Epstein generally.

• He discusses being caught on camera with Ghislaine Maxwell (“just saying pleasantries”), the cameo’s later notoriety, and stresses its context as an athletics-focused event.

  “I literally just walked into that and the only reason there were cameras there is because Trump was promoting the NFL… If it hadn't been the NFL thing, there wouldn't have been any cameras.” — Tom McMillan (09:05)

  “I had very little memory of it… People bring it up all the time, but it was a party 34 years ago.” — Tom McMillan (13:22)

4. Sports Glory: From SI Cover to the Olympics (14:57–19:27)

• McMillan reflects on being a Sports Illustrated high school cover star, his academic and athletic prowess, and a memorable recruiting visit involving LBJ (“first strong wave of bourbon that hit me in the face”).

• He shares memories of the controversial 1972 Olympic gold medal basketball loss to the USSR, narrating both the shambolic officiating and the Cold War context.

  “That thing was preordained… If the game got close, we were going to lose it.” — Tom McMillan (17:39)

5. Athlete Politics: The “Jock Caucus” and Legislative Innovation (19:27–29:42)

• McMillan met with Ted Turner to get traded to Washington so he could run for Congress, winning in the closest race in the country that year.

• He discusses working alongside star-athlete lawmakers like Jack Kemp, Bill Bradley, and Jim Bunning.

• As a legislator, McMillan pushed early for TV revenue sharing in college sports and pioneered transparency (Student Right to Know Act).

  “I announced for Congress before the season. I played a whole year as a candidate…and then I left the NBA in May. My primary was in May, and I was elected in November.” — Tom McMillan (20:07) “I said, this is like a time capsule bill. People will pull it out 25 years later. And believe it or not, Senator Cantwell called me last summer...” — Tom McMillan (28:30)

6. Exit from Congress and Executive Roles (29:42–32:50)

• Discusses his forced exit after redistricting (“very frustrating”), his post-Congress appointments under Clinton (including chairing the President’s Council on Physical Fitness), and why he didn’t run for office again.

  "But, you know, when I left Congress, I became a presidential appointee to Clinton… it was kind of a fun, fun gig for a while to do." — Tom McMillan (30:01)

• Torre confronts McMillan with the 1997 “forced resignation” following a federal investigation into his company (ultimately no charges) and a domestic violence accusation (later retracted, with McMillan asserting, “we are happily married…totally false”).
  [31:48–36:50]

7. The NCAA, NIL, and Policy Battles (36:50–41:37)

• McMillan details leading Lead1, a collegiate AD association, describing efforts to modernize and build coalitions in a fractured, competitive college sports environment.

  "It was Jack's vision that by bringing ADs together…and coming together on policies…would be a productive thing for college sports." — Tom McMillan (36:50)

• A gala planned for Trump’s hotel was discussed but, per McMillan, never happened.

8. Trump, College Sport Commissions, and Political Navigation (38:58–41:37)

• McMillan reflects on advocacy for a Presidential Commission on College Sports, drawing parallels to the Olympic reform commission of the 1970s but laments “the problem today is that it’s so partisan.”

  “I thought bringing folks together in a kind of high level commission…could work for college sports… But it hasn't happened.” — Tom McMillan (39:48–41:37)

Pablo Torre’s Investigative Findings:

The Epstein Files, Black Book, Flight Logs, and Fact-Checking Dilemmas (44:54–54:34)

• Torre presents McMillan with public records from the new “Epstein Files”:

  • His name appears twice in Epstein’s black book (“I’m not surprised… he was a collector of people.” — Tom McMillan 46:23)
  • Discusses a 2013 email from political operant Gwendolyn Beck referencing McMillan and Epstein. McMillan expresses confusion, stating, “I wouldn’t have said any of those things…just crazy.” (50:08)

• Torre asks about flight logs allegedly showing McMillan on Epstein’s plane in January 1993.

  • McMillan repeatedly denies any memory or involvement: “I don’t recall and I don’t think it’s accurate.” (52:46)
  • When pressed about “Tommy Quinn,” listed alongside him, McMillan claims no memory and asks to move on.

• As the interview nears its end, McMillan grows frustrated, repeatedly urging to leave the topic (“This stuff’s 30-some years old. I don’t have any relationships here. I mean, this is—I can barely remember any of this.”) (53:07–54:13)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On being forever linked to the Mar-a-Lago video

  “People bring that cover up to me all the time today and want it signed.” — Tom McMillan (15:40)

• On brushes with high-level political and sports figures

  "Jack Kemp, Jim Bunning, Mo Udall, Bill Bradley… quite a group of athletes… called it the jock caucus." — Tom McMillan (26:51)

• On college sports reform

  “We were two of the three that passed the Student Right to Know bill… it was a consumer item. You ought to be able to tell how a college is doing graduating their athletes…” — Tom McMillan (28:12)

• On his presence in Epstein documentation

  “You could pull anybody off the street, like, and if you go through that book, there’s thousands of people in it. So it’s just part of his MO was to collect people really more than anything else.” — Tom McMillan (46:23)

• Frustration with the focus of the interview

  “I really didn’t do this interview. They flashback something 35 years ago that I barely remember.” — Tom McMillan (53:00)

• On his disavowal of close ties to Epstein

  “I never had a close relationship or what I would characterize as a friendship with Epstein, but have known President Trump for about 40 years, since he donated to my first congressional campaign…” — Tom McMillan, via post-interview email (end; 54:35+)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Epstein Video & Mar-a-Lago Analysis: 02:15–14:18
• Sports Illustrated & Olympic Reflections: 14:57–19:27
• NBA Career & Run for Congress: 19:27–21:58
• Jock Caucus & Legislative Legacy: 26:51–29:42
• Controversies: Resignation & 1997 Incidents: 31:48–36:50
• NCAA Leadership & NIL: 36:50–41:37
• Flight Logs, Fact-Checking, and Frustration: 44:54–54:13
• Follow-Up and McMillan’s Response: 54:35–end

Tone Notes

Throughout, Torre maintains a measured but persistent investigative tone—respectful but unafraid to ask uncomfortable questions. McMillan is initially cordial, self-deprecating, and reflective; as the inquiries turn to his presence in the Epstein files, his tone shifts to frustrated, defensive, and increasingly terse.

Conclusion

This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out intricately weaves together the seemingly serendipitous intersections of sports, politics, and scandal in the life of Tom McMillan. While McMillan asserts his involvement with Epstein was distant and circumstantial, the episode highlights how legacies can be complicated by history’s resurgence and the modern quest for transparency. Torre’s persistent reporting juxtaposes a storied career against the unpredictable, often uncomfortable resurfacing of “time capsules” from decades past—with the show closing on the ultimate inability to “blow out” the candles of scrutiny.

For listeners seeking a nuanced exploration of recent headlines, sports history, and the tension between past and present, this episode delivers both hard facts and the human realities behind public record.