Exclusive: We Found the Knicks' Top-Secret Tapes for Kawhi, Kyrie and KD

Summary

---

Pablo Torre Finds Out

Exclusive: We Found the Knicks' Top-Secret Tapes for Kawhi, Kyrie and KD

Date: December 19, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guests: Frank Isola, Desus Nice
Produced by: The Athletic

---

Main Theme and Purpose

In this episode, Pablo Torre, alongside guests Frank Isola and Desus Nice, dives deep into the secretive and star-studded efforts the New York Knicks made to recruit NBA superstars Kawhi Leonard, Kevin Durant, and Kyrie Irving in 2019. With unprecedented access, the episode reveals never-before-seen recruitment videos, elaborate personalized gifts, and the inside story of how these attempts ultimately failed—shedding light on the broader culture of NBA free agency, tampering, and New York's unique allure.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Knicks' History of Superstar Recruiting

• Background: The failed 2010 LeBron James pitch is revisited, including the infamous Knicks recruitment video featuring celebrities such as James Gandolfini, Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani, Spike Lee, Chris Rock, and Harvey Weinstein.
• Tone: Warm, self-deprecating New York nostalgia, poking fun at the city's reputation for failing to land stars despite its natural advantages.
• (03:41) Pablo Torre: “The most New York conversation—just talking about parking strategy in and out of Yankee games!”

2. The 2019 Big Free Agency Summer

• Knicks prepared elaborate, high-budget, top-secret recruitment campaigns for Kawhi, KD, and Kyrie—collectively referred to as "the 3Ks" (15:10).
• The agency ‘Translation,’ led by Steve Stoute, was hired to produce intimate, personalized presentations.
• Frank Isola: “All of it matters. All of it matters. Look at, you know, during the game, they're going to show celebrities during timeouts. That's a big part of it.” (10:56)

3. The Kawhi Leonard Experience

• Recruitment Video: Featured Jay Pharoah impersonating Kawhi, cameos by Ben Stiller, Kenan Thompson, Michael Che, Jason Biggs, Tracy Morgan, and others.
• Delivery: Presented inside a custom Knicks pizza box with embedded monitor (16:26).
• Mix of classic New York cultural showcases (e.g., pizza, Rucker Park) and humor targeting Kawhi’s perceived persona.
  • (22:26) Desus Nice: “That part was good. That worked, that worked—like you could have just had that scene right there.”
• Reception: Self-awareness that Kawhi was an enigma; skepticism whether such pitches would resonate.
  • (15:13) Frank Isola: “If you think you’re gonna get through to Kawhi Leonard, come on now. Nobody knows what makes him tick.”
  • (23:06) Pablo Torre: “He’s like helpful to the kids.”

4. The Kyrie Irving Pitch

• Gift: A retro TV with VCR, decorated with Kyrie’s logo and street art by Eric Haze (30:20).
• Content: Focused on Kyrie’s New York roots and streetball culture with cameos from playground legends and nods to future legacy (Wheaties box, “Kyrie” as a popular baby name in NY).
• The narrative was designed to appeal to both nostalgia and the vision of future glory.

5. The Kevin Durant Approach

• Gift: Custom “Key to the City” containing a thumb drive (33:53).
• Video: Featured Wu-Tang Clan, Fat Joe, and New York hoops culture, highlighting KD’s impact and potential legacy.
• Production issues: Timing problems meant the video was likely never seen by KD or his agent Rich Kleiman.
  • (37:28) Pablo Torre: “I said, had you ever seen any of this stuff... He said, ‘Nah, he never saw it. I haven't even discussed with him. But as a native New Yorker, I just saw it yesterday. And Wu Tang can do anything and I'll like it.’"

6. Why the Knicks' Efforts Failed

• Tampering and Timing: NBA’s free agency rules, with legal contact only beginning June 30 at 6pm, but most deals being agreed upon much earlier (36:04).
• Knicks “played by the rules” and missed their window—their packages didn’t even reach the intended stars in time.
  • (38:13) Frank Isola: “The players, the players all know ... it's amazing how they all know.”
• Cynical Reality: NBA free agency is rife with unofficial agreements; attempts to “do it right” are, ironically, a competitive disadvantage.
  • (39:30) Desus Nice: “We need to tamper more. We need to tamper more.”

7. Does Celebrity Culture Matter?

• Debate on whether New York’s celebrity fanbase and city glamour genuinely appeal to modern superstars, or if winning, team situation, and relationships matter far more.
  • (42:45) Frank Isola: “Do you think professional athletes at that level, that much money really care about guys like actors and singers and rappers recruiting them? I don't think they do.”
• Candid admissions: Players, agents, and teams communicate for months/years in advance; marketing packages are often moot.

8. Humor, Irony, and Meta-Commentary

• The entire episode mixes genuine curiosity and admiration for these campaigns with biting humor, New York self-awareness, and the futility of such “Hail Mary” ploys.
• Memorable running joke: Every attempt somehow pivots into a New York-centric story—be it parking, pizza, or late-night TV hosts.
• Frequent call-backs to Robert Frost’s poem “The Road Not Taken,” used both sincerely and ironically about the roads not taken by free agents and the Knicks.
  • (46:38) Pablo Torre: “A poet by the name of Robert Frost... two roads diverged in a wood and Kawhi took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference.”

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On New York nostalgia and futility:
  (03:41) Pablo Torre: “The most New York conversation—just talking about parking strategy in and out of Yankee games!”

• On Knicks’ obsession with stars:
  (10:56) Frank Isola: “All of it matters. Look at, you know, during the game, they're going to show celebrities during timeouts. That's a big part of it.”

• On secrecy and celebrity cameos:
  (16:26) Desus Nice: “It’s a Knicks pizza box with Knicks gear, Knicks merch in it, little KITH on it…they said, hey, here’s some free swag...”

• On understanding Kawhi:
  (15:13) Frank Isola: “If you think you’re gonna get through to Kawhi Leonard, come on now. Nobody knows what makes him tick.”

• On tampering and timing:
  (36:09) Frank Isola: “So how could Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving go be going to the Nets having not even spoken to them? How is that even possible?”

• Meta on futility of Knicks’ efforts:
  (39:30) Desus Nice: “We need to tamper more.”

• Celebrity recruitment skepticism:
  (42:45) Frank Isola: “Do you think professional athletes at that level, that much money really care about guys like actors and singers and rappers recruiting them? I don't think they do.”

• Playful closure with poetry:
  (46:38) Pablo Torre: “Two roads diverged in a wood and Kauai took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference.”

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:00-06:00: Nostalgia for old Knicks recruiting efforts, failed LeBron pitch
• 06:50-11:30: The New York celebrity factor and Madison Square Garden’s mystique
• 13:20-15:15: Introducing the secret 2019 “3Ks” pitch process
• 16:25-25:00: Unpacking/Previewing the Kawhi Leonard recruitment video
• 30:00-33:45: The Kyrie Irving “streetball” package
• 33:55-36:10: The Kevin Durant “Key to the City” pitch and thumb drive video
• 36:10-38:15: The timeline/tampering dilemma and why the packages went unopened
• 38:15-40:10: Agents, tampering realities, and star-to-star connections
• 42:45-43:03: Big picture: does any of this actually sway superstars?
• 46:38-47:00: Robert Frost, irony, and episode closure

---

Conclusion

This episode offers a rare and revealing behind-the-scenes look at the Knicks’ celebrity-driven, high-budget, but ultimately futile attempts to land superstar free agents. Through interviews, unseen footage, and irrepressible New York banter, it underscores the real mechanics of NBA recruiting: relationships, timing, and a reality that “playing by the rules” may leave you on the outside looking in. The show leaves listeners with a sense of both admiration for the city’s creative spirit and the recurring heartbreak of “the road not taken”—for both free agents and Knicks fans alike.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre and today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[Desus Nice]

I heard three Ks and I listen.

[Frank Isola]

Get ready to run the audio only.

[Pablo Torre]

Audience listen.

[Desus Nice]

I'll take a ring any way possible. Okay?

[Pablo Torre]

I'm not asking questions right after this ad.

[Verizon Ad]

This holiday, Verizon is giving you incredible gifts and savings you'll enjoy all year. When you Switch, you'll get four new iPhone 17 Pros. No trade in needed. That's right, get four lines for just $ dollars a line and the amazing iPhone 17 Pro for everyone. Save big this holiday. Visit Verizon today. 20 monthly promo credits applied to account over 35 months with a new line on unlimited welcome. In times of congestion, unlimited 5G and 4G LTE may be temporarily slower than other traffic. Domestic Data roaming at 2G speeds. Additional terms apply for phone offer. See verizon.com for details.

[Marc Maron]

Hey folks, it's Marc Maron from WTF. And today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile. So you're thinking about upgrading to the amazing new iPhone 17 Pro, the most powerful phone yet with 8 times optical zoom. But are you also thinking about the hassle of getting the phone at the store and transferring all your data? Well, good news. When you order a new phone online with Boost Mobile, they'll send an expert to your home or work to deliver your brand new iPhone 17 Pro and get you all set up on Boost Mobile within minutes. Visit boostmobile.com to get started. Delivery available for select devices [e-mail] terms apply.

[Blue Apron / VRBO Ad]

I'm done with subscriptions. Streaming fitness, razors, vitamins.

[Desus Nice]

I've got subscriptions for everything in my life. They lock you in and half the.

[Blue Apron / VRBO Ad]

Time I can't figure out how to unsubscribe. That's why I'm so excited about the new Blue Apron.

[Pablo Torre]

Now you can get delicious meals delivered.

[Desus Nice]

With no subscription needed, including new pre made options.

[Blue Apron / VRBO Ad]

Keep the flavor, ditch the subscription. Get 20% off your first two orders.

[Desus Nice]

With code APRON20 Terms and conditions apply.

[Blue Apron / VRBO Ad]

Visit blueapron.com terms for more.

[Frank Isola]

I'm not gonna even tell you what I did for you. Come on, man.

[Pablo Torre]

Frank, it's an honor for you to be here. You. You. I went said I could do it over zoom and I said you have to be here in person.

[Desus Nice]

I respect that. I respect that.

[Frank Isola]

Drove in.

[Pablo Torre]

You drove?

[Frank Isola]

Yeah. I asked him who's paying for these? He said, well, you know, do that. I don't know how to do that stuff. So now I'm gonna be out of money anyway, so.

[Desus Nice]

And you had to do the congestion.

[Pablo Torre]

Tell me. I said venmo me.

[Frank Isola]

I have nyp. I have New York press plates. So I Park on 37, then I walk to 48 to Sirius. Then I took the train down here.

[Desus Nice]

Real New York stuff, right?

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, just the most. Like a diplomat. He parked like a diplomat.

[Frank Isola]

I'm sorry. Testing, testing. One, two, three. Oh, oh. Close on.

[Desus Nice]

Man, that's like this family at Yankee Stadium this summer. And got it. They drove and parked on 42nd street and then took the Metro north up. And I was like, that makes absolutely no sense. But you have your reasons. Like, I guess you don't want to go to the heroin McDonald's across the street from Yankee Stadium. Stadium like the rest of us on River.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Frank Isola]

They have NYP parking there. Okay, but you have them all there. I waited people out for them to leave. A guy came with a bunch of, like, groceries. Pull up, right?

[Desus Nice]

Pull it right there.

[Frank Isola]

I'm not paying for parking.

[Desus Nice]

I need to get one of those.

[Frank Isola]

I'm like George Costanza.

[Desus Nice]

There you go. Another New York legend.

[Pablo Torre]

This is already the most New York conversation we've had on podcast. We're just talking about parking strategy in and out of Yankee games. Frank, do you. You don't know Jesus. You've never met him before?

[Frank Isola]

No, I watched. I've. I'm supposed to be really phony and say I really admire your work now. I appreciate it now. You're really funny.

[Pablo Torre]

Thank you.

[Desus Nice]

Funny in like a haha way or.

[Frank Isola]

Funny like, well played.

[Desus Nice]

You know, like a clown.

[Frank Isola]

I make you laugh. I'm here to amuse you. No, you're very good.

[Desus Nice]

Thank you.

[Frank Isola]

Very new. I think he's very New York. Like, you've lived in New York your whole life. I look like New York, but he kind of is New York.

[Desus Nice]

Yes, but I'm very familiar with you. Read your work. Not even bull. Like, I know Frank. When he said it, I was like.

[Frank Isola]

I'm still depressed that I got laid off. I kind of. I like working for a newspaper.

[Desus Nice]

Unfortunately, you work with words, and there's no longer any reason for words.

[Frank Isola]

I know.

[Desus Nice]

Nobody reads. No one reads.

[Frank Isola]

Everybody tweets, everybody. Pablo's doing a great job with his.

[Desus Nice]

Podcast, but people hate him for it.

[Frank Isola]

But people took you more seriously or they. You like when people take you seriously when you worked for Sports Illustrated. I think people took me more seriously.

[Pablo Torre]

When I wrote Frank used to go during L. Sanity is where Frank and I really developed a relationship.

[Frank Isola]

Cuz you were beating Everyone in the story.

[Pablo Torre]

So I hated you, and Frank was taking shots at me. And it's an. As a New Yorker, it is an honor when Frank Isola personally tries to drone strike you in the pages of one of the city's great tabloids. It really. Frank is somebody that we both grew up reading. Yes. If you're. If you grew up a Knicks fan. Frank Isola has another nickname. Yes.

[Desus Nice]

Frank.

[Frank Isola]

I was going to say.

[Desus Nice]

Is that it, Frank? Or if it was. If you're old enough, Frank Ayatollah. I don't know if that worked.

[Frank Isola]

That worked. Y. Yeah.

[Desus Nice]

Yeah.

[Frank Isola]

I remember, like, my wife and kids call me the other one.

[Desus Nice]

No, I remember there sometimes I would see tweets from him, and I was like, this mother. And I was like. I had to realize. I was like, that's your thing. But here.

[Frank Isola]

Here's what's weird. When they were terrible and dysfunctional, I was pointing it out.

[Desus Nice]

The Knicks were terrible and dysfunctional.

[Frank Isola]

And last year, I was praising them for how well they did. I was surprised. I got rid of the coach and everyone was killing me.

[Desus Nice]

Yeah.

[Frank Isola]

I thought that last year they had a good year. I thought when they won 24 games, that was a bad year. Right.

[Desus Nice]

You know what it is? Have you ever been to an animal shelter and they have, like, a rescued dog, and, like, the dog is, like, getting cared for and getting food on schedule, and it lashes out. It doesn't know how to act. So that's as. Nick fans, like, literally, you could be like, yo, that was a good year. You're like, what do you mean by that?

[Frank Isola]

Yeah.

[Desus Nice]

Really? That's funny to you? Like, we're very. We're very caustic. We don't trust this, like, me right now. Like, I'm like. Everyone's like, oh, you guys won the Cup. I'm like, what is. Do we have the cup curse now?

[Pablo Torre]

How do the Knicks maximize their natural advantages being they're in New York?

[Desus Nice]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, how the Knicks have approached the acquisition of superstars is really the premise of why I've been summoning you here. The thing we did in 2024, Beck, this is in April 2024.

[Frank Isola]

Excellent.

[Pablo Torre]

We got the tape that the knicks made for LeBron, and I just want to refresh people's memories, because you two, I think, are just in the target demo. But if you haven't seen it, what the Knicks did to recruit LeBron James in the summer of 2010, it did involve this.

[Blue Apron / VRBO Ad]

Now we just gotta find a place.

[Desus Nice]

For your friend LeBron to live. What's he like? He's a modern guy, but he respects tradition. And here's something classy on the east side. Was it big enough? It's going to be entertaining a lot of people in New York. It's very expensive. Oh, that's not going to be a problem. You got to find something magnificent, something. There's nothing in the world like it. One of a kind, like he is.

[Blue Apron / VRBO Ad]

Well, here's a place says it gets really loud there. Take a look.

[Desus Nice]

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's it. That's going to be perfect for him.

[Pablo Torre]

Showing Madison's Gregard on a laptop in this modest apartment that delayed great James Gandolfini was filming this scene out of. Yes, in which they're in witness protection. That was the premise of this, by the way. My favorite part that I think people overlooked, though, is the fact that when the Knicks were recruiting LeBron James in 2010, they were also recruiting two other stars, Frank Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade and Dwyane Wade. And I wouldn't say they tried quite as hard when they did some of them some alt takes on that same scene.

[Blue Apron / VRBO Ad]

Now we just need to find a place for your friend Dwayne to live.

[Desus Nice]

What's he like? Well, he's a modern guy, but he respects tradition. Now we just need to find a.

[Blue Apron / VRBO Ad]

Place for your friend Chris to live.

[Desus Nice]

What's he like? Well, he's a modern guy, but he respects tradition. I feel like they were running out of time in the studio and it was like, yo, we'll fix it in post. We will fix it in post.

[Pablo Torre]

The list of famous faces they got, it didn't just, you know, start and stop with the Sopranos. The first face you saw in the video, of course, was Donald Trump. Rudy Giuliani's in there. Chris Rock is in there. Spike Lee. But I do want to highlight one of the faces that I don't think aged nearly as well as any of those, actually, because you may recall him from his work in Hollywood and beyond.

[Harvey Weinstein]

New York is such a universal city. And I know LeBron. I mean, I read his book and I know that he's tight with his buddies. The idea of those friends coming to New York City, those guys sound amazing. Loyalty, smart, bright.

[Desus Nice]

Well, Weinstein sanity was a bleak period during the Knicks run. I still got my jerseys.

[Frank Isola]

Don't wear that often.

[Pablo Torre]

Weinstein sanity was another tabloid sensation. And in case you're wondering how poetic Harvey is when it comes to those other two superstars, they also taped that.

[Harvey Weinstein]

You know, when I think of the Road Not Taken. Robert Frost, great poem about a man who makes a decision, the road that he'll travel down. And I think that Dwayne Wade wouldn't come to New York City. I love Miami, but Miami's a suburb of New York. I think of that Robert Frost poem, the Road Not Taken, about someone who doesn't take the big road. And I just wonder if Chris Bosh sitting there and going, wow, I could have gone to New York. I could have played on the world stage. And I didn't do that. I didn't throw my hat into the greatness ring, you know? You know, I can see him being, you know, 70 year old guy and going, wow, I should have done that, shouldn't I? Well, you know what? Don't be the 70 year old guy.

[Desus Nice]

Just do it. I feel like he quotes his Robert Frost poem for everything. He's just like, oh, my food's late. You know, like Robert Frost said, the meal not discovered. You're like, all right, we get it, Harvey.

[Frank Isola]

Then he quoted Nike at the end. Just do it.

[Desus Nice]

Just do it.

[Pablo Torre]

I just think there was a greatness ring he referenced, which feels like the thing that the Knicks should put in the Raptors of msg. That's where the Emirates banner should go in the greatness ring. The reason you're here today, though, is not because I just wanted to replay that video. Those videos, all of them, for you. Although I do I bring you here because the Knicks actually quietly have learned their lesson. So the next big free agency summer, Frank, where three stars were available of that caliber, right? That was 2010. The next time it happened was 2019. Frank, could you remind us what was going on in the summer of free agency in 2019?

[Frank Isola]

You had Kevin Durant telling people he wanted to team up with Kyrie Irving to come to New York.

[Pablo Torre]

And you also had someone else available that summer, too. We're doing a Kawhi Leonard episode. The question of how do you recruit three stars if you're the New York Knicks?

[Desus Nice]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

Frank, could you just give a sense for us of how much celebrity matters at Madison Square Garden?

[Frank Isola]

All of it. All of it matters. Look at, you know, during the game, they're going to show celebrities during timeouts. That's a big part of it. The celebrities all want to be a part of. I never knew Ben Stiller was this big of a fan. I mean, he's huge. I was covering the Knicks for 20 years. I never remember seeing him at a game. Now he's everywhere.

[Desus Nice]

Now he's everybody's best friend.

[Pablo Torre]

You can't have.

[Desus Nice]

You can't throw a Knick jersey without hitting Ben Stiller. And the funniest thing is, like, he's a huge celebrity. You can just do the smallest tweet, be like, let's go, Knicks. And it's like, Ben Stiller liked it. It was in 30 seconds. I'm like, you are so tapped in, man.

[Frank Isola]

I almost feel now that they're getting better. I feel there's a little competition now among the celebrities.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, Shalame's coming.

[Frank Isola]

Who's the biggest. Who's the biggest stick fan? So that is. That is certainly a big part of it and part of the whole thing with Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. People were the All Star Game that year. I'm going to forget where it was, but it was in February, and everyone might have been in Charlotte, and everyone was saying, Kyrie and Kevin Durant have already decided they're coming to the Knicks. That was in February.

[Desus Nice]

Yeah. As a delusional Knick fan, that sounds like something I would have believed just from. With no sources, just someone in my barbershop said it.

[Frank Isola]

In fact, the two of them before the All Star Game, talked in, like, a hallway where everyone could see them. Everyone in the media, and they were kind of wishing each other.

[Pablo Torre]

It was in Charlotte, by the way.

[Desus Nice]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

It was that viral video of them just like, having.

[Frank Isola]

Yes. I was standing right there. As Mike Francesca would say. I was there.

[Desus Nice]

Yeah, the poop.

[Pablo Torre]

So 2019, it's not LeBron, Wade and Bosch. It's Kyrie. It's KD and Kawhi and the Knicks. Frank had a ton of cap space.

[Frank Isola]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

And I've been looking at the summer of 2019, because that was a summer when Kawhi Leonard chose to go to the Clippers. That's the rabbit hole I've been in for pretty much all of this year. It's a summer, by the way, that, in retrospect, kind of changed the NBA. Yeah, Kawhi goes to the Clippers. Paul George goes to the Clippers. The Thunder get everything. The Thunder are now in position.

[Frank Isola]

Kevin Durant blows out his Achilles the next decade.

[Pablo Torre]

And, yeah, people. People's ligaments blow up. What I didn't know about that summer, though, was how big a player the Knicks were in terms of free agent, superstar recruiting, in terms of, like, you saw what they did in 2010. What did they do in 2019? What? I am told that the Knicks spent seven figures as part of a top secret campaign to not just get Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving, but also Kawhi Leonard. And you guys are both here because we're gonna watch these videos that no one has ever seen for the first time today.

[Desus Nice]

Let's go.

[Pablo Torre]

So 2019, the Knicks, what they do, as they often do, and Frank knows this, they turn to a marketing and music mogul with the initials S and S. Steve Stout. Steve Stout, yes.

[Frank Isola]

Oh, that's right.

[Desus Nice]

I thought you were gonna say pd. I was like, I go, I gotta.

[Frank Isola]

That's right. That was the guy that was best friends with LeBron. He was going to get him here. Then the Knicks hired him.

[Pablo Torre]

He was arguing as a Knick Serrot on first take at one point, remember?

[Frank Isola]

Yeah, that's right. And he criticized one of the active.

[Pablo Torre]

Players, Mike Miller, basically on television. Yeah, he got hired. His agency got hired. His agency's name is Translation. It turns out that this agency got hired. And we know this because we just spent months, three months now, just calling around the league trying to figure out, like, okay, I heard there's a Kawhi Leonard video that they made that no one's seen. And we got in touch with the guys who made it, and one of them agreed to come on camera.

[Cher Barnes]

Yeah. So I'm Cher Barnes. I'm chief marketing officer of Translation. And this all started with a conversation between Steve Stout, our founder, and, I believe, Jim Dolan. Obviously, a free agency window was coming up, and there was a desire to create some, like, I guess what you would call, like, more intimate assets to talk to a couple of superstars than they would normally produce. And, you know, they had a lot of cap space at the time, and they wanted to go after some big stars. And so they highlighted the 3Ks, you know, and they were like, yeah, we want to get after them. Can you write me? It was kind of like being Cyrano to Bergerac, you know what I mean? But not being able to talk to Roxanne and not being able to follow her around. So, you know what would be. What would be persuasive to these guys?

[Desus Nice]

A lot of literary references in this episode.

[Pablo Torre]

Robert Frost. That guy's name is Chaucer.

[Frank Isola]

Listen, by the way, you're. If you think you're gonna get through to Kawhi Leonard, come on now. Nobody knows what makes him tick.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, this was the challenge, right?

[Frank Isola]

Come on.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, okay, so the three K's.

[Frank Isola]

This is the challenge. This is what's gonna make him.

[Pablo Torre]

For the audio only audience, Frank Isola is making a motion in which he is rubbing his fingers, rubbing the fingers, the three Ks. Desus Kwai, kd, Kyrie.

[Desus Nice]

I heard three Ks and I listen.

[Pablo Torre]

Get ready to run the audio only. Audience.

[Desus Nice]

I'll take a ring any way possible. Okay, I'm not asking questions, but under.

[Pablo Torre]

The hood of this operation, so to speak, the question was, how do you recruit Kawhi Leonard? And Steve Ballmer had one answer. I've been reporting the contours of that. It involves uncle Dennis Robertson, who was reportedly asking for no show jobs and equity in private companies and the team itself and real estate deals and all of that. Many episodes about that separately. But the Knicks clearly thought they were in it because they invested in what was called, quote, a highly personalized gift. They wanted to do this thing bespoke. And what they decided to do. We love unboxing videos on this show. What this company did was they got a literal box, a pizza box.

[Desus Nice]

It's a Nicks pizza box with Nick's gear, Nick's merch in it, little kith on it. You know, they said, hey, here's some free swag.

[Frank Isola]

And it says, please watch the film below.

[Desus Nice]

Oh, is that a monitor inside?

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, there's a monitor.

[Desus Nice]

All the stops.

[Pablo Torre]

There's a monitor inside of this custom bespoke pizza box. And when you open the box and you begin to watch, you see this.

[Desus Nice]

We're here at Madison Square Garden and the season opener. Probably the biggest ever.

[Marc Maron]

Why?

[Desus Nice]

Because it's Kawhi Leonard's first night wearing the blue and orange. This city is in a frenzy. Kids everywhere are putting their hair in cornrows. In fact, I tried. It didn't work. But let me tell you, this is the big one. What's up, Kawai's chain? Welcome to New York, baby. Back to you. Oh, what's up, Michael Che? See, in my head, I was like, how did they have him watching this? But no, no, no. It's a. It's a doppelganger.

[Pablo Torre]

It's Jay Pharaoh. Jay Pharaoh.

[Desus Nice]

Shout out to the homie.

[Frank Isola]

Right?

[Desus Nice]

There it is.

[Pablo Torre]

Jay Pharah. Michael J. There's a lot of SNL in what we're about to watch here. And I just got to say that Jay Pharaoh so far is a very compelling Kawhi.

[Desus Nice]

He's great. The braids are very authentic from the back. I didn't know it wasn't him.

[Pablo Torre]

He's a method Kawhi.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And from there, the video proceeds.

[Desus Nice]

The champ is here. What's up, Claude? I don't want to draw too much attention to myself.

[Pablo Torre]

All right.

[Desus Nice]

Oh, Oh.

[Pablo Torre]

I Got you. I got you. Low profile.

[Desus Nice]

I forgot about that. Hey, man, you ready to see Stuff the City or what? Well, I was actually about to head to Madison Square Garden, so. Oh, no, man, we got plenty of time to do that, man. Right now I just want to show you New York. What about Goodfellas?

[Frank Isola]

Huh?

[Pablo Torre]

What about.

[Frank Isola]

What about Mean Streets? Yeah, both.

[Desus Nice]

Yeah, those are good New York movies. Can I get some sauerkraut, please? Yeah, sure.

[Pablo Torre]

I'd have to say for me, favorite.

[Desus Nice]

New York movies, probably between Muppets Take Manhattan and Rocky. Leaning towards Rocky. No way. Why not? Rocky's from Philly. He's from Philly, but he's.

[Pablo Torre]

No, he's originally from New York.

[Frank Isola]

No, it's Sean.

[Desus Nice]

Philly. Oh, yo, Adrian. That's in New York. That's totally New York. Can I have that, please? I gotta go. It's Kawhi's first game, so I gotta go see it. I'm not paying for this. Always the rich.

[Pablo Torre]

There he is.

[Desus Nice]

There is Mr.

[Pablo Torre]

Showing a claw at the end. They are. They are going for it. They are. They're like.

[Desus Nice]

All the stops are out, so.

[Pablo Torre]

We were told that Ben Stiller just rearranged his whole day to shoot that scene. They considered, apparently, Spike Lee, but only briefly, because it was, quote, just too obvious almost to get Spike in that.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And so the question I'm contemplating, and I'm curious how you guys would respond if you were Kawhi Leonard. Like you're watching a video in which someone is impersonating you, and so you kind of got to thread the needle on a respectful impersonation. Yes, that is also convincing you. I want to join this organization. And they decide to go north.

[Desus Nice]

Oh, snap. We got the Champ in the house. What's up, Champ? What's up, Champ?

[Frank Isola]

Right here.

[Desus Nice]

Well, you see, I'm representing for you already.

[Pablo Torre]

You see that?

[Desus Nice]

Welcome to New York, man. Congratulations, man. What's up? What y' all doing around here, man? You need a fade or something? Wait, Keenan, you work here? Yeah, man, it's New York. You know, everybody got a second job. Hey, Che, you take this man and get some pizza yet? No, we're actually heading to Madison Square. Che, you better take this man to get some pizza.

[Marc Maron]

He need to eat.

[Desus Nice]

Look how big he is.

[Pablo Torre]

Grin Joe's Pizza. They're uptown now. They're downtown.

[Desus Nice]

I know you don't like to eat before a game, but you gotta try some New York City pizza. Hey, everything good over here? Well, it's great.

[Pablo Torre]

Hey, Paulie, let me get a Pie.

[Desus Nice]

I told you, Biggs. No more pies for you.

[Pablo Torre]

All right, I promise I will eat it this time.

[Desus Nice]

No, Biggs. Oh, what is up, champ?

[Pablo Torre]

Hey, let's bring one back to New York.

[Desus Nice]

All right, let's go.

[Pablo Torre]

Nick's. Come on. My dude.

[Desus Nice]

My dude. Get out of here, Biggs. I like how everyone in this video talks the way people in New York talked when Marcos was around. It was like, yo, I'm walking.

[Pablo Torre]

Whoa.

[Desus Nice]

Master Square Garden pizza. Like, no one talks like that anymore.

[Frank Isola]

Nobody went to school back then, by the way, does he know anybody?

[Pablo Torre]

Does he know any people in the.

[Frank Isola]

Maybe Michael Che.

[Desus Nice]

Yeah.

[Frank Isola]

After that, you're just like, no way. There's no way he knows who Al Roker is.

[Desus Nice]

That. That's a very. That's very low chance. It's very low. Maybe from, like, the. The Macy's Parade.

[Frank Isola]

Maybe Kawhi Leonard's getting up early on a Thursday, Thanksgiving, watching a giant Snoopy. No chance.

[Pablo Torre]

This is clearly oriented around Kawhi Leonard, comedy fan and, like, movie enthusiasts. Yeah. Like, so Jason Biggs. I didn't know. Did you guys know?

[Frank Isola]

Well, I didn't even know it was him. You know what?

[Desus Nice]

They will show him. I like the jumbo chart. I'm like the guy from the movie. Yeah.

[Frank Isola]

American Pie.

[Desus Nice]

It's kind of.

[Frank Isola]

But he's like, six or seven into the game that they'll introduce.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Desus Nice]

Not the first.

[Pablo Torre]

There is. There is a. Yes.

[Frank Isola]

He's a second quarter, third quarter guy.

[Desus Nice]

We're not talking Steve Sharipa, Edie Falco. Come on.

[Frank Isola]

Go on.

[Desus Nice]

Only the best here, that is.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. It's Jason Biggs making a joke about how he pies, but it's a pizza.

[Desus Nice]

Pie, and I didn't even catch that.

[Frank Isola]

See, neither did Kawhi, believe me.

[Desus Nice]

They're levels. Levels of this.

[Pablo Torre]

It's elaborate. And geographically, they're going from north to south and then back up north to Rucker park, where Jay Pharoah slash Kawhi Leonard decides to make an appearance.

[Desus Nice]

Heads up. Y' all need one more? Nah, we good. You handle what you gotta do at the Garden tonight. We'll handle things here. All right, kid, do your thing. I'll be over here if you need me.

[Pablo Torre]

Why? That's money.

[Desus Nice]

See, Champ, I got moves. Okay, Board man gets paid. Let me know if you need me at the Mecca. I got your back, Kawhi. Yo.

[Frank Isola]

Come on, y'. All.

[Desus Nice]

Let's play, man. Community.

[Frank Isola]

That part was good.

[Desus Nice]

That worked. That worked like you could have just had that scene right there.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Desus Nice]

All the other stuff.

[Frank Isola]

And I would throw in a couple good looking women.

[Desus Nice]

Seriously, it's very dude friendly.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah. There are women who live in New York.

[Desus Nice]

No female Nick fans in this thing.

[Pablo Torre]

Like, there is. There is an audience of one mentality here where you're like drilling down to, what would this guy like? And I do feel like there are some obvious cards left on the table.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

But Tracy Morgan showing up to block a kid's shot. I enjoyed it. If you're wondering what it's like to tape with Tracy Morgan at Rucker park, while, by the way, Jay Pharaoh again is trying to be so restrained in his impression without like crossing the line.

[Desus Nice]

Right.

[Pablo Torre]

So he's like kind of a. He's a good dude.

[Desus Nice]

He doesn't want to be insulting.

[Pablo Torre]

No, he's like helpful to the kids.

[Desus Nice]

He feels like an SNL sketch that at any moment is about to go very. Exactly. Very left.

[Pablo Torre]

And something that went left was an experience taping with Tracy Morgan. As one of the creatives from the translation agency named Chris Mendez decided to tell us about.

[Desus Nice]

Tracy Morgan pulled up in like a half a million dollar Ferrari, as you've heard. He's.

[Pablo Torre]

He's done.

[Desus Nice]

He pulls up to Rucker park, he parks it sideways and just like gets out the car. He's like, where do I go? And we're like, yo, go over there. And people are like, are you worried about your car getting towed? And he's like, that car is too expensive to tow. And he kind of just left it there. And it's funny because, like, you could tell, like, the local cops knew him. Like, everyone was like, down. It was just such an. And again, it was like such a New York moment. Because down to like people walking down the street, like, wondering what we're shooting to, like cops. Everyone was like, the minute they found out it was for the Knicks, they were like whistling, looking that way. They're like, do your thing, you know, so. Sounds about right.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, parking again. You could be Frank Isola with special.

[Frank Isola]

You know, he needs those New York press plates.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right.

[Desus Nice]

I used to work at the library, the Spy and Ivy library. And Tracy Morgan's kid went to school across the street. So he would just come in like a drop Top Bentley and just park it in front of the library. Not locking the door or anything. Roof it off. And who's going to steal his drop Top Bentley? I'm like, I don't even know how to drive that.

[Frank Isola]

I thought he did that during the playoffs last year.

[Desus Nice]

He does it. He has so many cars and he's so rich, and he just drives around. No security, just chilling.

[Pablo Torre]

He's Jason Morgan outside msg. You'll see him, like, dap up kids. He gave, like, an inspirational speech to, like, one of those kids or something like that.

[Desus Nice]

He'll change your life.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah, I think he would resonate with Kawhi. So far, nobody else. I'm sorry.

[Pablo Torre]

So at this point, with I think that being a concern, the assembled actors and entertainers decide to basically just break the fourth wall and appeal directly.

[Desus Nice]

Yo, what's up, Kawhi? Listen, I'm Jay Farrell. As you know, I'm the guy who played you this whole thing. You should come to New York, man. Look at the Garden. You see all the people in there? I'm one of them. If you are here in New York, I will personally come to your home and give you a forecast every afternoon. A humble New York Knickerbocker fan. And we need you at the Garden, brother.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't need to tell you about.

[Desus Nice]

Basketball, but I can tell you about New York.

[Pablo Torre]

First of all, the weather's awesome.

[Frank Isola]

He's holding umbrellas.

[Desus Nice]

The Knicks won a championship when I was 8, so I'd like another one before I die. Time is running out, man. You need to come to New York, man. You need to chill your ass out of New York. Come play. You know what I'm saying? You won't get all the women. I mean, I know you're married, but you know that everybody have a little side piece now. I'm saying you can't have a value meal without having a little, you know what I'm saying? Some Whopper fries, but, yeah, come on to New York, man. We got everything for you. We got lots of barbershops, so you know you'll be tight for every game.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm kind of a big deal, all right? I walk down the streets, people go nuts.

[Desus Nice]

What else do we. We got Puerto Ricans. I know they ain't got no Puerto Ricans in Toronto. We got several left, so come on down, bro. Play with the Puerto Ricans.

[Pablo Torre]

You are next level. Like, I'm like, here, and you're like, here.

[Desus Nice]

You need to get on Drake's plane. That's what you need to do. You need to fly that plane from Toronto. You need to bring that ass to New York. There's nothing like winning in New York. Just try it. It's a good idea because I said so. And I can give you a private jet.

[Pablo Torre]

You know why?

[Desus Nice]

I got money. Bam.

[Pablo Torre]

You want money? Come here.

[Desus Nice]

Come see us. Holla at me. I'll be waiting for you. When I think of Kawhi Leonard, I think of prosperity. You know how many crackheads there are in the city? You know how many people stop doing crack if you came here, Kawhi, Where was Harvey Weinstein? What was he doing that he couldn't be in this video? Come on, Harvey, let me ask you.

[Frank Isola]

A question, all right? This happens to me. Somebody. I have somebody come up to you, they start talking, oh, I thought you were so and so. I said all the time they would say, oh, I know a guy looks like you. I said, the guy better be good looking. All right, that's not Idris Albert. That's no offense to Jay Farrow.

[Desus Nice]

Right?

[Frank Isola]

So, like, don't you. I. I think Kawhi Leonard would be insulted by that. I really do. Yeah, but the guy's got to be better looking. He doesn't have to look like you. He's got to be better looking.

[Desus Nice]

But if he's funny, it's not as threatening. Yeah, because if he was, if it was just like some gorgeous model, like. Yeah, like. No, it's like, oh, the comedy softens it. You're like, okay, I can. I could take a little light ribbing, that kind of thing.

[Frank Isola]

But this is Kawhi, though.

[Desus Nice]

It is. But also, we don't know anything about Kawhi.

[Frank Isola]

Well, we found out. Pablo reported he pulls out the dirt with one hand, plants a tree with the other.

[Desus Nice]

Just goes around those big.

[Frank Isola]

That's what. Now we know what that big claw is for. Digging. Digging that hole, sticking the tree in there.

[Desus Nice]

Tree man gets paid.

[Pablo Torre]

Unfortunately for those who don't remember how that summer went.

[Frank Isola]

Not good.

[Desus Nice]

Wait, we didn't get kd. We didn't. We didn't get.

[Pablo Torre]

Speaking. Speaking of what the Knicks did try to do to get Kyrie and kd. That's after the break. Shopping for a car should be exciting and not exhausting. But between misleading prices, hidden fees, and bad pictures, it almost feels like the system is designed to make you second guess yourself. Luckily, that's where car gurus comes in. They rank the best deals, verify dealers, and make sure you never pay more than you should. Your big deal just became a great deal. Cargurus will connect you with trusted dealerships when you're ready, ensuring a transparent and hassle free buying process. And with over 4 million listings, CarGurus has more car listings than any other major online automotive marketplace in the United States. So you can find the best deal. It's no Wonder that similar web estimated traffic data shows Cargurus is the number one most visited shopping site. So buy yourself your next car today with [e-mail] Go to CarGurus.com to make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C A R G u r u s.com cargurus.com.

[Verizon Ad]

This holiday, Verizon is giving you incredible gifts and savings you'll enjoy all year. When you Switch, you'll get four new iPhone 17 Pros. No trade in needed. That's right, get four lines for just 25 a line. And the amazing iPhone 17 Pro Pro for everyone. Save big this holiday. Visit Verizon today. 20 monthly promo credits applied to account over 35 months with a new line on unlimited welcome. In times of congestion, unlimited 5G and 4G LTE may be temporarily slower than other traffic. Domestic Data roaming at 2G speeds. Additional terms apply for phone offer. See verizon.com for details.

[Blue Apron / VRBO Ad]

VRBO makes it easy to claim your dream summer spot with early booking deals. From homes with pools to poolside loungers. When you book a vrbo, you don't have to reserve any loungers. They're all yours. Get that early booking [e-mail].

[Pablo Torre]

Kevin Durant Kyrie Irving. They're playing footsie all, you know, all year basically. And I do want to show what the Knicks prepared for Kyrie first because again, they don't just do it as if like here's an email attachment they made, you know, for kids who don't remember what this object is. Desus. What is this object?

[Desus Nice]

I was about to date myself and say it's an apple too, but it's not. This is a TV with a built in vcr.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah. Wow.

[Pablo Torre]

It's like. It's sort of the crack is. Yep, exactly. All around. It's like origin blue. Yeah, all these there's good. You can see the.

[Frank Isola]

The.

[Pablo Torre]

I got the K open.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah, the Kyrie Irving ki.

[Desus Nice]

Oh, that's right. That's his little. His logo.

[Pablo Torre]

Yep. Street artist Eric Hayes is the artist who put work into this.

[Frank Isola]

That's actually not bad.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Frank Isola]

I don't think I know if it's going to impress him, but.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, and when you press play on this thing, what it was designed to do was show you this.

[Desus Nice]

Kyrie Irving was made for the New York Knicks. New York City basketball is in Kyrie Irving's blood.

[Frank Isola]

Well, is roots of them here.

[Desus Nice]

Here's a guy that played in the park when Kyrie was young. His father used to bring him to the gym. And he was too young to play with us. That boy used to watch me. He has that mental toughness, a heart of the lion, the grit, the hunger. All that stuff he does. It came from the playground with the crossover, the jelly. He has New York City flair. And the DNA of New York City is Kyrie Irving.

[Pablo Torre]

This is very street ball oriented. They decided to appeal to that Speedy Williams, record park legend. Earl de. Pearl Monroe, who's also, yes, legendary on the outdoor court. Blackjack Ryan, also very famous in the street ball world. That's the angle they're going with. And it's sweet. It's like, okay, they're appealing to tradition, and then they're going to imagine also a future for Kyrie Irving if he decided to join the Knicks.

[Desus Nice]

Hey, my name is Kyrie, and I was named after acting. My favorite ball of all time. Why do you think I named both of them after Kyrie? Kyrie's so gifted. He rapped it. Living in the future, the present. He passed it. Kyrie. Kyrie Irving, man.

[Pablo Torre]

I love that.

[Desus Nice]

Just like, oh, we're gonna get Kyrie. And there's gonna be so much unprotected sex in New York City. My God. We're just naming the kids left and right.

[Frank Isola]

That one's not. That's actually not bad.

[Pablo Torre]

It's a vision of 2027. They put the aftermath on there. Like, this is what happens if you win in New York. You got a Wheaties box. I will point out that the Wheaties box lately is less sort of.

[Frank Isola]

I mean, do we have the Timothy Chalamet?

[Pablo Torre]

Exactly.

[Desus Nice]

Oh, wow.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, yeah, yeah. They're just. Look, hold on. We have a. Let's just get.

[Desus Nice]

I mean, I haven't looked at a box of Wheaties in quite. So. What are they, 19?

[Pablo Torre]

Now here is the spine con.

[Frank Isola]

Oh, yeah, listen. I went to that.

[Desus Nice]

Look at him.

[Frank Isola]

I didn't take one now. Yeah.

[Desus Nice]

Is it right? Timothy Charlemagne, courtside all the time since he was a child, a real New Yorker.

[Frank Isola]

And it was where, you know, the big thing is orange. They wanted everybody. You would have fit in perfectly. Last night, they had everybody wear orange.

[Desus Nice]

The Empire State Building was last night. Listen, it's like they bring him on to talk about other things. Yeah, they're like, talk about, you know, childhood cancer. He's like, y', all, childhood cancer is really bad. But, you know, it's not bad. We're in the NBA Cup. And you're like, all right.

[Frank Isola]

He was on. In London on a show just last week. And he mentioned the Knicks. He can't go. He can't go 10 minutes. He's a real Nick fan.

[Desus Nice]

Real Nick fan. Like we're going to talk about it when you don't want to hear it.

[Pablo Torre]

So Kyrie was appealed to in that regard. And yeah, I think, I think that was, that was largely well done Kevin Durant, what they provided him in terms of what the object was physically, it was a literal key to the city with a plaque. And the plaque says, kevin, the city is yours.

[Desus Nice]

Continue your legacy in the mecca of the basketball.

[Frank Isola]

He did, he went, he went just.

[Desus Nice]

In the wrong borough. Like he got lost.

[Pablo Torre]

So this key, this golden key in this beautiful case was a thumb drive. It turns out when you plug it in, clever. When you plug it in, you get a full on music video. And some of this has already come out. We reported this, actually broke this news earlier that they made this whole custom thing involving the Wu Tang Clan and Fat Joe and a bunch of other people about the 2019 Knicks roster.

[Desus Nice]

Let me tell you something, man. I was outside in the Rucker. KD scored about 81 points out there just shooting miles away. I mean, miles away. That's when I knew he was the real deal. It's only one place to play is the Knicks. There is nothing else, man. That's why, you know, he belong here in New York. What's up, K.D. come through, babe. Bro, we need you.

[Frank Isola]

K.D.

[Desus Nice]

Goes to New York. Come on through, baby. I see that wolf. I think you got that wound tattoo on your calf right over there on your leg. I seen that bird. We got it all for you. Yeah, a Yo KD sneaker on a hardwood floor on New York knee now is to get a GoPro going. Rock what you die. Would you spike on set? 1.5 seconds left. We going to build you a statue right in front of the Garden North. Go all these other organizations. This is the music in the background when you're changing the settings on NBA Live. You're like, let me turn down the sliders.

[Pablo Torre]

There are so many people in that video that they hired to do it and it goes on and on and all that stuff. But the problem with this whole thing, Frank, I need you to help explain the timeline issue with free agency. So these videos were all shot from late May to late June, I believe in 2019, we were told. But the free agency window for the NBA legally officially opens on June 30th. Yep, at 6pm One problem with what happened in 2019, as often happens in NBA free agency Frank is what?

[Frank Isola]

Well, Woj was breaking stories before even six o'.

[Pablo Torre]

Clock. Yes.

[Frank Isola]

So how could Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving go be going to the Nets having not even spoken to them? How is that even possible?

[Pablo Torre]

56:00Pm that's what the time was. Tweets out. Brooklyn is making a clean sweep tonight. Brooklyn will sign Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving and DeAndre Jordan. League sources tell ESPN an hour before the thing actually opens. And this is an issue because it turns out that if you're this agency and you're the next, like, preparing these videos, but there was a concern about whether they would actually ever see them.

[Desus Nice]

Definitely play by all the rules.

[Cher Barnes]

Definitely play by all the rules. The Knicks obviously handled that, but they were. They were definitely buttoned up in that respect. Nobody's looking for, you know, the unforced error there. We were all throwing our fingers on the table, waiting to get the feedback, like, knowing that we might have had a thing. And when the phone never rang for us. Kawhi loves it. KD's like, when that never happened. That was. I don't know. Yo. To this day, I don't know who got what. I don't know anything.

[Pablo Torre]

And what I did was I made some more calls. We, as a show, had to keep reporting this story. And I got to Rich Kleiman, Kevin Durant's agent and longtime business partner and New Yorker.

[Frank Isola]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

And I said, had you ever seen any of this stuff, the KD stuff? And he said, quote, Nah, he never saw it. I haven't even discussed with him. But as a native New Yorker, I just saw it yesterday. And Wu Tang can do anything and I'll like it.

[Desus Nice]

Right.

[Pablo Torre]

Quote. But what we are learning, given that Kawhi Leonard clearly was being frank. The Clippers were courting Kawhi Leonard.

[Frank Isola]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

Long before 6pm Yep. On free agency, opening day. And the Nets clearly, and Kyrie and kd, they had been planning something long in advance. And then, weirdly, what I'm here to say is that I found out that the Knicks really didn't tamper enough. I don't think I agree.

[Frank Isola]

We. All right, so if you go back to LeBron, I wrote Charles Oakley's book for him. Thanks for reading it. And Charles Oakley talks about talking with LeBron the summer before free agency. And he told Charles, I'm going to go to Miami.

[Desus Nice]

Right.

[Frank Isola]

Charles knows Pat Riley. He ran into him in Miami, told him that Pat Riley kind of ignored it because he was worried about tampering and things like that. I remember walking into running into Mike Miller. Mike Miller said he ran into LeBron, like in May, LeBron saw him and he said, what are you going to do? I'm going to go to Miami. The players, the players all know.

[Desus Nice]

Yeah.

[Frank Isola]

It's amazing how they all know, because the Kevin Durant and Kyrie stuff. February was a. Going to the Knicks. And then all of a sudden, by March, April, there was this shift where people say they're going. They're both going to go to the Nets. I said, I was saying, really? Yeah, no, they're going to go to the Nets. And by now you've heard the Knicks, but everyone said, no, they're switched. They don't want to go. They're going to go to the. They're going to go to Brooklyn and play for the Nets. So all this stuff that they do, the intentions are good.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Frank Isola]

But all this stuff behind the scenes, it's just like your guy, Uncle Dennis, we all heard it was like the. I always feel like it was the Mark McGuire, Barry Bonds thing about guys are using steroids. But everybody in the media ignored it. Everyone was hearing, dennis is asking for the moon. He's asking for the moon. Everyone ignored it. Obviously, the Clippers gave him the moon because that's where he ended up.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Desus Nice]

I love that. Also, as a regular fan, as a casual, you're just really thinking, like, everyone plays by the rules. The tampering rules are so serious. No one's sending any text messages, no conversations happening. And then once you actually get in the business and you start meeting, people are like, yo, I know I'm going to be three years from now.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah.

[Desus Nice]

You don't have to recruit me. I know exactly what you're like. Oh, it's not all hunky dory like that. And also, as you said, we need to tamper more. We need to tamper more.

[Frank Isola]

What did Fred Van Fleet just recently say? He said that when we first met with Kawhi, he said, there's gonna be a one year thing. I'm not gonna be here next year. He did what he came to do.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah.

[Desus Nice]

And he said it from day one, I'm not staying here.

[Pablo Torre]

You know what? He never said he was gonna stay.

[Frank Isola]

From day one.

[Desus Nice]

I don't know why they traded for me. I don't want to be here. I'm not staying here.

[Frank Isola]

So a lot of us thought it was between Toronto and the Clippers. Obviously it wasn't. Still a great trade, though. Would you trade a guy for one year to win a championship? If you Haven't. If you've never won one, and they probably won't win one ever again, it's worth it.

[Pablo Torre]

Absolutely. I mean, the Kawhi thing, though, what we're finding out is that it is very likely that the first time and Kawhi, if you're not subscribing to Pablo Torre, finds out you're missing a lot of information about your own life. But the first time he may ever see this is this way.

[Desus Nice]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Like the. So KD never saw that. Kyrie probably never saw that. Kawhi probably never saw that. Like, they were on. They weren't opening up, like Nick's marketing recruiting packages.

[Desus Nice]

Also, when you got the key to even know it was a USB stick. Also, you can't just be opening. You can't just insert a USB stick into a random computer if you don't know where it came from.

[Pablo Torre]

So, yeah, the Knicks are so good at getting famous people into the building as fans. Yes. But the question of, like, how do you actually leverage what makes this city special from the entertainment perspective? This is now a decade of trying to do this stuff, but not quite getting the game. Correct.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And so I don't. Yeah. Frank. I don't know. I don't know. Do you? The Knicks now are in a different place.

[Desus Nice]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Desus is celebrating. I mean, Desus is, I believe, now working for the United Arab Emirates.

[Desus Nice]

You know, I knew ever since I was a young child growing up, I always wanted the NBA Cup. I just remember growing up in the Bronx and, you know, it's finally come true. So I have to pay them back.

[Frank Isola]

He wants a first class ticket on Emirates. That's why he keeps mentioning Emirates. NBA Cup.

[Desus Nice]

They have great. It worked for. It worked for Eric Adams.

[Frank Isola]

So, you know.

[Pablo Torre]

Where was I? Can Eric Adams pop up in a Knicks recruiting video? At some point you're gonna have to.

[Frank Isola]

Take it in New Jersey. I think he's in Fort Lee, Right. Isn't that where he lives?

[Pablo Torre]

He.

[Desus Nice]

No, right now he's like, have. He is like a parent whose child is going away to college. He's out every night. He's going on trips like, we don't know New York won. Every morning they're like, he might be here.

[Frank Isola]

Your boy will do it.

[Pablo Torre]

Zoron.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, yeah.

[Frank Isola]

And he's a footballer too.

[Desus Nice]

Yeah, he. Listen, he sent that tweet out right when the game ended yesterday. He did not have to wait for the PR people.

[Frank Isola]

He didn't.

[Desus Nice]

You know, Eric Adams would have gotten a row. He was like, oh, we're proud of our champions from Barkley center. And then they would have edited the tweet and been like the Madison Square Garden or something like that. So we, we got, we got some things going on here. We're in a new place.

[Frank Isola]

You think professional athletes at that level, that much money really care about guys like actors and singers and rappers recruiting them? I don't think they do.

[Verizon Ad]

This holiday, Verizon is giving you incredible gifts and savings you'll enjoy all year. When you Switch, you'll get four new iPhone 17 Pros. No trade in needed. That's right, get four lines for just 25 a line and the amazing iPhone 17 Pro for everyone. Save big this holiday. Visit Verizon today. 20 monthly promo credits applied to account over 35 months with a new line on unlimited welcome. In times of congestion, unlimited 5G and 4G LTE may be temporarily slower than other traffic domestic Data roaming at 2G speeds. Additional terms apply for phone offer. See verizon.com for details.

[Marc Maron]

Hey folks, it's Marc Maron from WTF and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile. So you're thinking about upgrading to the amazing new iPhone 17 Pro, the most powerful phone yet with 8 times optical zoom. But are you also thinking about the hassle of getting the phone at the store and transferring all your data? Well, good news. When you order a new phone online with Boost Mobile, they'll send an expert to your home or work to deliver your brand new iPhone 17 Pro and get you all set up on Boost Mobile within minutes. Visit boostmobile.com to get started. Delivery available for select devices purchased at boostmobile.com terms apply VRBO's last minute deals.

[Blue Apron / VRBO Ad]

Make chasing fresh mountain powder incredibly easy. With thousands of homes close to the slopes, you can get epic pow freshies, first tracks and more. Find last minute deals with the last minute filter on the app. Book a private vacation rental [e-mail] with savings over $390 this shopping season. VRBO helps you swap gift wrap time for quality time with those you love most. From snow on the roof to sand between your toes, we have all the vacation rental options covered. Go to VRBO now and book a last minute week long stay. Save over $390 this holiday season and book your next vacation rental home on VRBO. Average savings $396 Select Home Zone.

[Desus Nice]

Shout out to Harry S. Truman High School in the Bronx. I went there in elementary school because my elementary school had asbestos so we had to be on the top floor of Harry S. Truman High school for a year. We did not see the sun. We were just indoors.

[Frank Isola]

I put in security cameras there. Did you? I helped my father run the line. This is like a million years ago. And you're right. I kept thinking, there's no windows in this.

[Desus Nice]

There's no windows. It was like a prison.

[Pablo Torre]

No, it's a greatness ring. The true greatness ring is the top.

[Desus Nice]

That's the real Mecca. The next video, they're gonna have like little kids like, yeah. Come to school here, man. We got no windows. We see a window for a championship.

[Frank Isola]

And I'm like a punk kid growing up along island. I'm like, wow, they need security cameras in the highest guy. Wow. What's going on?

[Desus Nice]

There was a lot going on at school.

[Pablo Torre]

You were laying wire. That was.

[Frank Isola]

It was like my father's second job. So I think I might have got 10 bucks an hour. I'm not gonna say how long ago it was, dude.

[Desus Nice]

I have uncles and family members. Like, he was laying wire at a young age. Doesn't get better than that. Don't talk about the athletes. Tell them more about that. Like, what was the price of copper, dude?

[Frank Isola]

10 bucks an hour.

[Desus Nice]

Listen, you can't beat that. You're on the lirr, smoking a cigar.

[Frank Isola]

I'm in the beer car.

[Desus Nice]

You're in the beer car. You waited for my tracks like, yeah. What's going on tonight?

[Frank Isola]

Got a change. That Jamaica, man. Dog it.

[Desus Nice]

Oh, is it peak time.

[Frank Isola]

I try to cost more money at peak. He knows.

[Pablo Torre]

I guess what I'm left thinking at the end here. Well, I guess I'm thinking about a. A poet. A poet by the name of Robert Ross. Yes.

[Frank Isola]

How interesting.

[Pablo Torre]

Who once said in the road not taken, I shall be telling this with a sigh. Somewhere, ages and ages hence, two roads diverged in a wood and Kauai, Kauai took the one last traveled by. And that has made all the difference.

[Desus Nice]

Robert Frost. Well done just now. Every time you think of Robert Frost, think of Harvey Weinstein. Yeah, that's his legacy.

[Frank Isola]

And running wire in the running wire. Howard Truman High School in Li.

[Desus Nice]

Listen, I could call Mike Francesca and talk about this for an hour. I'll be like, yeah, yeah. Do you understand how good a job like that was? Like, that's generational, Mike.

[Pablo Torre]

I dare say that Harvey Weinstein, much like Frank Isola and Desus Nice, all familiar with what it's like to be in a room without windows.

[Desus Nice]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo torre finds out is produced by walter averoma maxwell carney, ryan cortez, juan galindo, patrick kim, neely loman, rob mcrae, matt sullivan, claire taylor and chris tuminello. Rstudio engineering by rg systems sound design by andrew burcic and n post theme song as always by john bravo and we will talk to you next time.

[Verizon Ad]

This holiday, Verizon is giving you incredible gifts and savings you'll enjoy all year. When you Switch, you'll get four new iPhone 17 Pros. No trade in needed. That's right, get four lines for just 25 a line and the amazing iPhone 17 Pro for everyone. Save big this holiday. Visit Verizon today. 20 monthly promo credits applied to account over 35 months with a new line on unlimited welcome. In times of congestion, unlimited 5G and 4G LTE may be temporarily slower than other traffic domestic data roaming at 2G speeds. Additional terms apply for phone offer. See verizon.com for details.

[Pablo Torre]

Take control of the numbers and supercharge your small business with zero.

[Desus Nice]

That's Xero.

[Blue Apron / VRBO Ad]

With our easy to use accounting software.

[Pablo Torre]

With automation and reporting features, you'll spend less time on manual tasks and more time understanding how your business is doing. 87% of surveyed US customers agree. Xero helps improve financial visibility. Search Xero with an x or visit xero.comacast to start your 30 day free trial.

[Blue Apron / VRBO Ad]

Conditions apply with stays under $250 a night. Virvo makes it easy to celebrate sweater weather. Book a cabin with leaf views or a home with a fire pit for nights with friends. With stays under $250 a night. Find a home for your exact needs. Book [e-mail] VRBO makes it easy to claim your dream summer spot with early booking deals, from homes with pools to poolside loungers. When you book a vrbo, you don't have to reserve any loungers. They're all yours. Get that early booking [e-mail].