Podcast Summary: Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: He Finds Music Stars. Now He's Helping Us Save the Life of a Wrongfully Convicted Man
Host: Pablo Torre (The Athletic)
Guest: Jason Flom (Music Executive, Host of "Wrongful Conviction" Podcast)
Air Date: February 17, 2026

Overview

This episode features Pablo Torre in conversation with Jason Flom—a legendary music executive known for discovering stars like Katy Perry and Lorde and now, more urgently, for his work in criminal justice reform and the fight for wrongfully convicted prisoners. The discussion weaves together Flom’s dual careers: from signing hit music acts to championing clemency for individuals on death row. The show’s focus centers on the case of Charles Don Flores, a Texas man facing execution despite overwhelming evidence of innocence, and examines the flaws of the U.S. justice system. The episode is a passionate call for public action and a meditation on the power of hope and advocacy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. Jason Flom’s Extraordinary Career in Music (02:27–05:23)

• Jason Flom details his record label career, sharing a roll call of famous artists he signed: Zebra, Twisted Sister, Skid Row, Tori Amos, Jewel, Matchbox 20, Kid Rock, Simple Plan, Paramore, Katy Perry, Lorde, Greta Van Fleet, and more.
• Notable quote:
  • “The music business has been very good to me...I’ve been very, very lucky.” —Jason Flom (04:16)
• Flom describes signing artists based on instinct—the same gut feeling he later channels into identifying injustice.

II. Gambling Addiction and Turning Points (07:15–08:43)

• Flom recounts his own struggles with addiction—including gambling, which almost destroyed him.
• His addictive personality later fueled his passion for advocacy.
• Notable quote:
  • “When I walked into the first [Gamblers Anonymous] meeting, they always ask...have you ever considered killing yourself as a result of gambling? And I think almost everybody else in that room had gone 20 for 20.” —Jason Flom (07:15)

III. Instinct in Music & Justice (09:04–09:47)

• Flom explains how identifying stars and miscarriages of justice require a similar acute sense of “instinct,” blended now with data in the music industry.

IV. The Night Everything Collided: A Death Row Story (10:17–12:30)

• On the way to scout the band “The Warning,” Flom receives a call that a man he was helping, Donnie Cleveland Lance, has been executed.
• The parole board ignored the pleas of Lance’s children (who lost their mother) to spare his life.
• Notable quote:
  • "They executed my dad tonight. And they dumped his last meal on the floor.” —Jason Flom (10:37)
• Flom’s outrage over this case becomes a defining moment in his advocacy.

V. Awakening to Advocacy: The Stephen Lennon Case (14:20–19:10)

• In 1993, Flom reads about Stephen Lennon, a man unjustly imprisoned under draconian drug laws.
• Despite no legal training, Flom contacts Lennon’s family and helps them secure a lawyer.
• Against all odds, Flom’s intervention leads to Lennon’s freedom, fueling Flom’s lifelong mission.
• Notable quote:
  • “I decided that if this was my superpower, then I was gonna use it for as long as I could, as often as I could.” —Jason Flom (18:09)

VI. Connecting Careers: Spotting Prospects, Spotting Injustice (20:09–21:35)

• Flom’s talent for spotting talent translates to identifying causes and leaders in the criminal justice reform movement.
• His wife Kalia (Muhammad Ali's daughter) is his partner in advocacy.

VII. The Case of Charles Don Flores: Hope on Death Row (24:17–35:25)

• Charles Don Flores: On Texas death row for a murder he did not commit.
• No physical evidence, does not match eyewitness description, and the actual killer confessed and has since been paroled.
• A key witness identified Flores only after undergoing "forensic hypnosis," a practice since banned, but not retroactively.
• Notable Moments & Quotes:
  • “This is a really easy story to tell. His presence is...ethereal...He has this spirit that is unbroken. It’s indomitable.” —Jason Flom (24:32)
  • Charles Don Flores (from prison):
    • “With the help of friends and people sending me books...meditation was the key of putting space between the awareness that is me and my ego, which is pride, which is anger, which is all of those things.” (25:13)
  • “The actual killer was paroled in 2016. While Charles has been sitting...on Texas death row—where sometimes for a year or more, they don’t even see sunlight.” —Jason Flom (34:41)
  • Discussion of Texas' “Law of Parties,” which allows courts to sentence someone to die even if they didn’t commit the crime but were allegedly present.

VIII. Systemic Problems in the Justice System (39:47–45:18)

• Flom explains how most felony convictions (97%) are due to plea bargains.
• Structural and economic disadvantages often trap poor, marginalized individuals; public defenders are overworked and under-resourced.
• The plea system and prosecutorial incentives often lead to wrongful convictions.
• Notable quote:
  • “If you do get picked up and you're suspected of a crime, just say your name, your address, and then say the following words: I want a lawyer. And then shut the up.” —Jason Flom (43:18)

IX. Why the System Stays Broken & Importance of Public Pressure (47:30–49:30)

• Effects of perverse incentives for prosecutors: the goal is to “win” cases, not ensure justice.
• When a wrongful conviction occurs, the real criminal often escapes justice.
• Public and media attention can catalyze action.
• Notable quote:
  • “One thing they don’t like is tomorrow’s headlines...when you’re able to bring attention to these cases, oftentimes stuff starts to change.” —Jason Flom (49:30)

X. What Actually Prevents Crime (49:30–53:24)

• Flom argues that addressing desperation (through community support, not incarceration) is the key to crime prevention.
• “What causes crime is desperation...What prevents crime is a much smaller word: hope.” —Jason Flom (53:18)

XI. The American Death Penalty: A Uniquely Harsh System (54:29–55:51)

• America’s ongoing use of the death penalty is anomalous among Western nations.
• The system often prioritizes procedure over actual innocence.
• “We kill people to show that killing people is wrong—make it make sense.” —Jason Flom (55:41)
• “At least 1 in 10 people that have been executed in this country have been innocent, which is wild.” —Jason Flom (55:49)

XII. Call to Action for Charles Flores (56:20–57:16)

• Urgent efforts are underway for Flores.
• There’s a petition anyone can sign to support his case: Action Network Petition for Charles Don Flores.
• Notable quote:
  • “He deserves it and his case cries out for it.” —Jason Flom (57:07)

XIII. Reflections on Legacy and Purpose (57:41–58:50)

• For Flom, freeing one wrongfully convicted person is more meaningful than any professional music accomplishment.
• Notable quote:
  • “None of those number one records compares to walking one person out of prison. And that’s the difference between happiness and joy.” —Jason Flom (57:41)

Memorable Quotes by Timestamp

• 04:16 — Jason Flom:
  “The music business has been very good to me...I’ve been very, very lucky.”
• 07:15 — Jason Flom:
  “When I walked into the first [GA] meeting...almost everybody else in that room had gone 20 for 20.”
• 10:37 — Jason Flom:
  "They executed my dad tonight. And they dumped his last meal on the floor."
• 18:09 — Jason Flom:
  “If this was my superpower, then I was gonna use it for as long as I could, as often as I could.”
• 24:32 — Jason Flom:
  “His presence is...ethereal...He has this spirit that is unbroken. It’s indomitable.”
• 25:13 — Charles Don Flores:
  “Meditation was the key of putting space between the awareness that is me and my ego...”
• 34:41 — Jason Flom:
  “The actual killer was paroled in 2016. While Charles has been sitting...on Texas death row...”
• 43:18 — Jason Flom:
  “If you do get picked up and you're suspected of a crime, just say...I want a lawyer. And then shut the up.”
• 49:30 — Jason Flom:
  “One thing they don’t like is tomorrow’s headlines...when you’re able to bring attention, oftentimes stuff starts to change.”
• 53:18 — Jason Flom:
  “What causes crime is desperation...What prevents crime is a much smaller word: hope.”
• 55:41 — Jason Flom:
  “We kill people to show that killing people is wrong—make it make sense.”
• 57:41 — Jason Flom:
  “None of those number one records compares to walking one person out of prison...that’s the difference between happiness and joy.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment Description | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 02:27–05:23| Flom’s career in music and artist discoveries | | 07:15–08:43| Gambling addiction and recovery | | 10:17–12:30| The Donnie Lance execution call, pivotal moment | | 14:20–19:10| First wrongful conviction win: Stephen Lennon | | 24:17–35:25| The story of Charles Don Flores | | 39:47–45:18| How the criminal justice system fails the innocent | | 47:30–49:30| Incentives in prosecution, public pressure matters | | 53:18–53:24| “Desperation causes crime; hope prevents it” | | 54:29–55:51| Death penalty in America: facts and reflection | | 56:20–57:16| Call to action for Charles Don Flores | | 57:41–58:50| Meaning of advocacy vs. career success | | 59:01–59:54| Update: Flores’ Supreme Court cert petition |

Action Links

• Support Charles Don Flores:
  Sign the Petition

Tone

The tone throughout is empathetic, direct, and urgent—combining clear-eyed critique of the criminal justice system with personal admissions and stories of transformation. Flom and Torre bring skepticism, humor, and relentless hope as they discuss one of the most pressing injustices in America today.

This summary captures the key arguments, evidence, stories, and emotional beats from the episode, preserving the voices and intent of the original conversation. It provides an engaging, useful outline for anyone who hasn’t listened and actionable resources for those motivated to help.