How 'Veep' Predicted the Election, with the Real-Life Jonah Ryan

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: How 'Veep' Predicted the Election, with the Real-Life Jonah Ryan
Host: Pablo Torre
Guest: Timothy Simons (Actor, “Jonah Ryan” on Veep)
Date: November 5, 2024

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Overview

On this thought-provoking Election Day episode, Pablo Torre sits down with Timothy Simons, the actor who played the scheming and unforgettable Jonah Ryan on HBO’s “Veep.” They dive into how the satirical show forecasted the absurdities of contemporary American politics, the real-life echoes in today’s political climate, and the blurring lines between television satire and reality. The conversation is rich with behind-the-scenes revelations, memorable "Veep" moments, reflections on career, and astute cultural commentary—delivered with the sharp wit and warmth characteristic of both Torre and Simons.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Veep as Real-Life Political Prophecy

Timestamps: 04:07–06:51

• Pablo sets the stage by highlighting Simons's dual pop-cultural credentials (“Draft Day” and “Veep”), then pivots to Veep and how its storylines eerily parallel real events—including a vice president ascending due to a resignation (mirroring the Biden-Harris ticket situation in 2024).
• Simons shares how the show’s satire became “predictive,” especially as U.S. politics grew more absurd—“I don’t know that I actually ever thought that some of the season seven stuff would actually be predictive, but we’re kind of fully there.” (08:13)
• Discussion of the “J.D. Vance at the donut shop” viral moment and how Veep essentially forecasted politicians cosplaying common-man authenticity.

2. Writing & Performing the Character of Jonah Ryan

Timestamps: 07:46–14:20

• Simons relays how Veep’s writing adapted to the post-Obama, Trump-era “beyond satire” political climate—“Satire…tends to be a scalpel, and we kind of had to turn into a sledgehammer…” (07:46)
• In-depth breakdown of Jonah’s infamous congressional testimony and the glossary of “Jonad” insults (e.g., Chizzy Gillespie, 60-Foot Virgin, Cloud Botherer).
• Simons describes the personal experience of becoming the butt of the writers’ jokes, noting, “You’ll just see a writer walk in, look you up and down, and then…come back with alts, and it’s like, you motherf****r, you just came in here and figured that one out.” (12:43)

3. Auditioning and Becoming Jonah Ryan

Timestamps: 14:34–16:22

• Anecdote about landing the role: Simons wasn’t what the creators envisioned—“It was written for, like, a short, fat, bearded guy…never thought I would get it, and kind of just kept making it through.” (15:11)
• Early on, Simons intentionally tries to distance himself from Jonah physically and stylistically (hair, clothes).
• The visual and power dynamic with Julia Louis Dreyfus (Selina Meyer) is a constant comedic centerpiece.

4. The Appeal (and Peril) of Playing Awful People

Timestamps: 16:40–18:19

• Simons reflects on the catharsis and freedom of playing “bad people”—“They can go into a room and say the worst thing and not worry about it…there's a certain wish fulfillment,” he notes. (16:40)
• Pablo asks how much Simons has to clarify in real life that he isn’t actually Jonah Ryan; Simons shares Julia Louis Dreyfus’s advice: "If someone calls you by your character's name, don’t respond—because that’s not your name." (17:50)
• Simons recounts being insulted by fans imitating the show (“jolly green face!” in the grocery store; 18:36), and managing those boundaries.

5. Behind the Scenes: Creative Process and Writing

Timestamps: 19:21–20:49

• Simons celebrates Julia Louis Dreyfus’s improvisational genius, e.g., the unscripted “croissant dildo” line—“That wasn’t scripted. That was something she just threw in…the volcanic anger underneath is incredibly funny and was kind of found in the moment.” (19:51–20:26)
• The show excelled at merging “surgery and sledgehammer” satire. (14:24–14:34)

6. When Veep and Reality Collide

Timestamps: 21:19–24:17

• Simons and Torre note how Trump-era and post–Tea Party politics made Veep’s dark, power-hungry characters and themes look tame—or even prescient.
• “At one point, it became the naked pursuit of power,” Simons says, describing Selina Meyer's transition, and shares how aspects of Trump, especially “xenophobia and anti-vax stuff,” were split between Selena and Jonah in later seasons. (22:42)
• The infamous “Stop the count” refrain appears both in Veep and in the real world (2020); “You got to stop the count!” (23:32)

7. Veep’s Political Satires in 2024

• Torre reads examples from a viral quiz: “Who said it, Jonah Ryan or J.D. Vance?” Simons admits he got some wrong because their rhetoric is now indistinguishable. (31:06–31:54)
• Extended riff on how “outsider insiders” like Jonah and real-life politicians (Trump Jr., J.D. Vance) cosplay as working-class for PR—“It’s the same…you were president for four years and you’re still saying you’re an outsider? […] Do something or leave.” (27:10–27:55)
• The “No More Math” speech as a perfect example of escalating, shameless political pandering. (28:17–29:07)

8. Power, Futility, and Ambition in Washington

Timestamps: 35:01–37:20

• Simons reflects on Jonah’s “failing upwards” arc: from White House messenger to congressman to VP candidate—paralleling real-life political absurdities and third-party threats in 2024 (RFK Jr. referenced).
• The thematic core of Veep: power is ultimately pathetic. “What you think is power is actually pathetic in a nutshell.” (35:46)
• Pablo: “You maybe aspire as a kid…to make a difference…what you’re actually signing up for is to be in an office full of actual psychopaths.” (35:58–36:14)

9. Election Day Anxiety and Media Diets

Timestamps: 37:55–39:54

• Torre and Simons compare plans for enduring Election Day stress. Simons shares he will dissociate: “Most of the day is going to be spent in some sense of clinical detachment or dissociation…there is no solving [the anxiety] except for it being done.” (38:11)
• Simons hasn’t been on Twitter for two years (“It’s so much better…The people that make you mad…they don’t matter if you’re not there.”; 38:53)
• Simons’s family will likely watch some returns together at night.

10. Politics and Personal Values

Timestamps: 39:54–41:26

• Torre weighs whether he would ever encourage his daughter to enter politics—a Catch-22: “The only way to get those people [bad politicians] not to do that is to get people who I’d actually want to save our country to do the job.”
• Simons responds: “I don’t know that we set up like the right system here…It’s not going great.” (40:29–40:44)
• The episode ends echoing the comforting (if naive) simplicity of “Draft Day”—“You know what was simple in Draft Day? Vontae Mack, no matter what.” (40:52–41:09)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Satire vs. Reality:
  “Satire…tends to be a scalpel, and we kind of had to turn into a sledgehammer.”—Timothy Simons (07:46)

• On Jonah’s Insults:
  "There is so much going on there... he's one of those people that cannot have an ego death."—Timothy Simons (11:13)

• On Casting as Jonah:
  “It was written for…a short, fat, bearded guy…never thought I would get it.” —Timothy Simons (15:11)

• Jonah’s Pathologies:
  “There is a palpable shamelessness... that, again, feels kind of familiar.” —Pablo Torre (11:30)

• On Audience Confusion:
  “If someone calls you by your character's name in public, don't respond. That’s not your name.” —Advice from Julia Louis Dreyfus to Simons (17:50)

• Political Performance:
  “The idea of being the outsider’s insider…it's the same... you were president for four years and you’re still saying that you’re part of, like, Marjorie Taylor Greene?” —Timothy Simons (27:10)

• On American Political Desperation:
  “What you think is power is actually pathetic in a nutshell.” —Pablo Torre (35:46)

• Therapy for Election Day:
  “Most of the day is going to be spent in some sense of clinical detachment or dissociation.” —Timothy Simons (38:11)

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Useful Timestamps

• [04:40] – Introduction to Jonah Ryan and “Veep”
• [07:46] – Parallels between Veep and Trump-era politics
• [09:52] – The Jonad Files: congressional scene and insults
• [15:11] – Simons’s unexpected casting
• [19:49] – Julia Louis Dreyfus’s improvisational genius (“croissant dildo”)
• [22:31] – “Naked pursuit of power”—when characters abandon all principle
• [23:32] – “Stop the count!” and Veep/real-life parallels
• [28:17–29:07] – “No more math!” campaign speech
• [31:06–31:54] – “Jonah Ryan or J.D. Vance?” quiz confusion
• [35:46] – Summary: "What you think is power is actually pathetic"
• [38:11] – Coping strategies for Election Day

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Concluding Thoughts

This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out is equal parts hilarious and sobering, offering a rare inside look at how art anticipated reality, and how reality these days often seems stranger than satire. Timothy Simons’s reflections are generous, self-deprecating, and insightful on comedy, fame, and the dark thrill of embodying society’s grotesques. For anyone watching the farcical sideshow of U.S. politics unfold, this conversation is equal parts therapy and ammunition.

Final Send-Off:
“You know what was simple in Draft Day? Vontae Mack, no matter what.”
—Pablo Torre & Timothy Simons (40:52–41:14)

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Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're going to find out what this sound is.

[Timothy Simons]

Oh. Does that have any ties to what's happening right now? Pablo, does that have any ties to what's going on? It's election day, right after this ad.

[Pablo Torre]

You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network. I do like how you have no idea what we're about to do.

[Timothy Simons]

It's sometimes more fun that way.

[Pablo Torre]

It is, yeah. For instance, you just reminded me of something that is not on my exhaustive dossier I've compiled on you, which is that you were in Draft Day.

[Timothy Simons]

Yeah, I was in Draft Day.

[Pablo Torre]

The Cleveland Browns are now on the clock.

[Timothy Simons]

It's go time.

[Pablo Torre]

Boss, you gone rogue.

[Timothy Simons]

Who you gonna take? What's happening?

[Pablo Torre]

Who you picking? You son of a. I need five minutes and then you fire me.

[Timothy Simons]

I got Michaels on the line. Sonny. Are we trading six? I quit. Sonny, don't quit.

[Pablo Torre]

See what I do from here. You're going to like this.

[Timothy Simons]

The football world is in shock.

[Pablo Torre]

Are you familiar with the cult of people for whom Draft Day is a real important thing?

[Timothy Simons]

Yes, 100%. It's an odd thing because it kind of wasn't. It didn't light the world on fire when it came out. I think ultimately was considered a disappointment.

[Pablo Torre]

Sure.

[Timothy Simons]

People have come up to me over the past, whatever, 10 years to say how much. I think it's like very much a comfort movie for people, including, like, I was at like a golf thing with Russ Ortiz and Russ, former Giants pitcher Russ Ortiz. He was like, my wife is going to be really upset that I'm talking to you because she already doesn't like how much I watch Draft Day and this is only going to make me watch it more.

[Pablo Torre]

I went and saw it in theaters.

[Timothy Simons]

You did?

[Pablo Torre]

With my good friend, frequent PTFO guest Mina Kimes.

[Timothy Simons]

Oh, nice.

[Pablo Torre]

And it's the sort of thing for football fans especially. And this is not a joke or an exaggeration. During the opening, like, sequence, as they're like flashing actual approved licensed NFL team names and logos, Mina is booing and cheering.

[Timothy Simons]

Can I tell you two things that came out that I loved about the NFL throughout that. That they are all so competitive. In the first version of the script that I read Bo Callahan, the quarterback, it was clear he was going to be a bust.

[Pablo Torre]

Find it odd that nobody on the team was at their teammate's 21st birthday party. A key famous plot point is that in the scouting of Bo Callahan, nobody went to his birthday party and they.

[Timothy Simons]

Were like, that guy, something.

[Pablo Torre]

This is the reddest flag.

[Timothy Simons]

The Seahawks, the actual Seahawks organization refused to lose a trade. And so they essentially made the script change so that it would be like, you don't know if he's going to be a bust. Because the actual Seahawks were like, we don't lose trades.

[Pablo Torre]

We won't lose a fictionalized trade.

[Timothy Simons]

We won't lose a fictionalized trade. And then when they were showing us in, like, the war room, somebody comes out and makes an announcement like, okay, this next pick, this is for a movie. This is not real. So just react as if it's the first pick.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, they did it during the actual draft.

[Timothy Simons]

They did it during the actual draft. And they were showing us, like, the raw footage for us to react to of Roger Goodell going out on stage announcing the first pick.

[Pablo Torre]

The Cleveland Browns select Vonte Mack, linebacker, Ohio State.

[Timothy Simons]

Like, you know, Vonte Mack no matter what.

[Pablo Torre]

Vonte Mack no matter what.

[Timothy Simons]

And even though it was a fake draft, everybody still booed Roger Goodell, and they had to edit it out and add cheering. But, like, in the raw footage, everybody was booing him for the fake draft.

[Pablo Torre]

But speaking of blurring the lines between real and fake, the thing I really wanted actor Timothy Simons to help me find out about today was not his performance as a Cleveland Browns scout. That's not why he's in studio with us. It's because of something a little less sanitized. I followed candidate Joan Orion as he campaigned in his home state.

[Timothy Simons]

How am I doing eating so much, son? Hey. What? This is an elementary school.

[Pablo Torre]

Watch your spewing mouth, you animal.

[Timothy Simons]

Hey, you're gonna pay for that.

[Pablo Torre]

That is a stupid. If you know the show Veep, which ran from 2012 to 2019 on HBO, won 17 Emmys and also a Peabody for good measure. You know, Timothy Simons as Jonah Ryan, a scheming White House aide who by the end of season seven, transforms into a vice presidential candidate, a kind of proto J.D. vance. And Tim has done plenty of other things since playing Jonah, by the way. You can watch him right now, for instance, in the rom com. Nobody wants this on Netflix, but today is Election Day, which means that I should also point out that former PTFO guest Dave Mandel, who did the Yankee Wife swap episode with us, was also Veep's showrunner. And that Julia Louis Dreyfus starred as Selina Meyer, the titular morally bankrupt Veep turned president.

[Timothy Simons]

No, I mean, POTUS is gonna resign, and I'm about to become President America.

[Pablo Torre]

And if that plot point Sounds, you know, just a little prophetic in retrospect. Just know that the same is true for so much of this show this past year when.

[Timothy Simons]

When Joe Biden dropped out and Kamala came in, everybody was relating that to the moment where the President steps down. And Veep. Yes, Like, Veep has now been off the air since 2019.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. Ran from 2012 to 2019, but it.

[Timothy Simons]

Also came out this summer, and it also came out a year and a half ago. Like, whenever people find it is the moment it came out. So people, in a way, like, are responding to it in the same way as if it is, like, currently going on and is happening now rather than something that was on television and now is not. Does that make sense?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, it more than makes sense. It is, in a literal sense, true. Insofar as Veep, Various plot points are actually happening all of the time in American politics.

[Timothy Simons]

I mean, think the reason you reached out about this specifically was J.D. vance at the. At the donut shop, right?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. And I was like, all right, I got to talk to Tiffany Simons, my friend, about what it's like to be the version of this person in a fictional world that presaged a character like this being an actual vice president.

[Timothy Simons]

Hey, how are you? Good, good.

[Pablo Torre]

The zoo has come to town.

[Timothy Simons]

I'm sorry. Okay. Yeah. She doesn't want to be on film, guys, so just cut her out of anything.

[Pablo Torre]

Appreciate that, man. I'm Katie Vance.

[Timothy Simons]

I murdered her. From vice president. We'll see it. Okay. I remember, like, specifically the last season, we were solidly in the first Trump term, and there was a. A general sense of, like, well, how do you satirize politics when this is beyond satire?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Timothy Simons]

And satire, like, is. Tends to be a scalpel, and we kind of had to turn into a sledgehammer in a way, because nothing. Like, there's nothing subtle about what was happening. So then you also then had to, like, pump these things up even more broadly than what was happening. But I. I don't know that I actually ever thought that some of the season seven stuff would actually be predictive, but we're just kind of fully there. Like, I think in the finale, Jonah Ryan says something to the effect of, like, I love America, but we have to face facts. This is a horrific country that is falling apart because it is full of people who are different than me. I doubt that they have improved their messaging in between, when we are recording this in election Day.

[Pablo Torre]

They come from Africa, they come from Asia, they come from South America. They're ruining our country. And it's true. They're destroying the blood of our country.

[Timothy Simons]

That's what they're doing.

[Pablo Torre]

They're destroying our country.

[Timothy Simons]

In fact, they probably have only gotten more naked in it. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Is there a scene that best sort of introduces your character?

[Timothy Simons]

I do think that, like, the Jonad Files is, like, a good introduction both to, like, what, like, the. The tone of the show, but also a lot of the specific characters and how they react to situations. One of the, like, younger staffers on the Selena Meyer presidential campaign has hacked the personal data of bereaved families who have lost children so that they could specifically target them with mailings about child mortality and that. And then they try to cover it up. So then everyone is dragged in front of a congressional committee to testify about their knowledge. Do you recall a document shared on.

[Pablo Torre]

The J Drive titled the Jonad Files?

[Timothy Simons]

No. No, ma'. Am.

[Pablo Torre]

That doesn't ring a bell. So it's not a word combining Jonah and gonad on a laptop. There is a list of things, a glossary that sounds like this.

[Timothy Simons]

That is exactly what it is, and Mr. Regan knows that. In fact, Mr. Egan, I was told that you encourage staffers to add to this glossary of abuse. I do not, at this moment in time, recall the action, nor the document. Okay. Maybe this will jog your memory. We have some extracts. J Rock, Chizzy Gillespie, Jack and the Giant, Jack Off, Galen, Tinker Balls, Wadzilla, One Erection. Do we have to go through all of these? I'm not sure that I see the relevance. The witnesses claim they held their former colleague in high regard, and I am attempting to prove otherwise. Okay, yeah, sure. No, you can proceed. The pointless giant, the 60 foot virgin chimpanzee, Jonah Ono, Hagrid's nutsack, Scrotum pole, transgender formers, 12 Years a Slave to Off Benedict in His Own Hand, Guyscraper, the Cloud Botherer, Supercalifragilisticex, Teenage Mutant Ninja, Spubaka. My college friends called me Tal McCartney. I preferred that. That's a good nickname. So there's so much going on there, not only about the show that I love. I think to your question of Jonah specifically, I think it's the last thing where even though all of those things have been read into the Congressional Record, he's still like, I can save this. He's like one of those people that cannot have an ego death. And so he is sort of.

[Pablo Torre]

That's such a good way of put.

[Timothy Simons]

Again, you know what I mean?

[Pablo Torre]

And I relentlessly. Forever egotistical. Despite many Many sledgehammers coming for him.

[Timothy Simons]

They aren't subtle things that are happening to him. People are looking him in the eye and telling him that they don't like him.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, there is. There is a. A palpable shamelessness.

[Timothy Simons]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

That, again, feels kind of familiar.

[Timothy Simons]

Yes. That he is just like, you know, of all those things, I bet if I just throw in Tom McCartney, that's going to be the one that's going to stick.

[Pablo Torre]

When you go back and you listen to this stuff as it. As you did just now, does stuff sort of fall through the cracks of your memory and. Or is all of this very vivid still?

[Timothy Simons]

I feel like I do kind of always forget about Teenage Mutant Ninja. Like, you know, like, the cloud bother is one that I go back to because, like, a lot of times people will say, like, well, what was your favorite insult? And I go to that one just because usually, like, the dirty ones are really funny. But a lot of times you're in a circumstance in which you can't say, like, jolly green face.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Benedict in your own.

[Timothy Simons]

Benedict in your own hands. So, like, cloud bother is also, like, a very devastating but gentle insult.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, there. There's. There's an almost like Lord of the Rings aspect.

[Timothy Simons]

Yeah, the cloud clouds. Just like the cloud. Get out of here.

[Pablo Torre]

I will point out, by the way, obviously, your actual sense of humor, which allows you to enjoy every single joke. It does seem to extend to the jokes that are actually just about how you personally, Timothy Simons, look.

[Timothy Simons]

Yes, it's. It is hard. Like, sometimes you'll just see a writer walk in, look you up and down, and then they'll leave the room and they'll come back with alts, and it's like, you motherf cker, you just came in here and figured that one out. Like, there's an outtake or, like, a thing on a blooper reel. We're all in, like, a. Like, a black Suburban, and this is, like, in between takes, but the camera's rolling and Dave comes in. He's like, all right. Yeah. You look like someone melted Play DOH all over a flagpole. There it is.

[Pablo Torre]

God damn. Yeah. Your skeleton is an engineering conundrum. Yes.

[Timothy Simons]

It's like there's no way that. That his, like, his joints should be able to take whatever load is being put upon them. Early on, I definitely, like, made choices about the way he looked as a character that I think tried to separate him from me.

[Pablo Torre]

Explain the key visual differences where you were like, I need to put some distance between us.

[Timothy Simons]

We part his hair in a way that I do not part my hair. And then, like, in the way that he dressed. The idea was that all of these staffers are essentially interns. They get paid nothing. The idea was that he would get, like, both sleep and get dressed in his car. So, like, the clothes that he wore were, like, the best that he could find at a Goodwill. Nothing fit quite right. So it wasn't like there was a full physical change. There were just, like, four ME attempts to make him different enough from me so that I could walk away from it. At the end of the day, it's.

[Pablo Torre]

The density of jokes. It's unrelenting.

[Timothy Simons]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And it's the writing that makes it so that that all feels like both surgery and sledgehammers. And it's just really hard to do both.

[Timothy Simons]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And I'm just curious, your audition process for a show like this, how did you get this job?

[Timothy Simons]

I got it because, like, a friend of mine, who I was, like, the roommate of a guy that I worked at a bar with in Chicago, was the casting associate for Alison Jones. And if, like, your audience doesn't know who Alison Jones is, she's like, a legendary casting director who's kind of like. She did, I think, like, one of her first jobs, like, when she was just starting out, was on Golden Girls and has done sort of every good comedy from then until now.

[Pablo Torre]

She works with friend of the show, Mike Schur.

[Timothy Simons]

She did Arrested Development in the Office. And my friend that worked there was like, oh, you might want to bring in my friend Tim. He just did this thing. He showed it to her. It was funny, and she was like, cool. Yeah, bring him in. And then, like, I was auditioning against type. It was written for, like, a short, fat, hairy, like, short, fat, bearded guy. And so, like, it was kind of stacked against me. Never thought I would get it, and kind of just kept making it through.

[Pablo Torre]

It's jarring because the visual gag of you and Julia Louis Dreyfus, it is the stature asymmetry, the inverse of the power asymmetry, and the constant playing with that. How apparent was it when you were going through this process? And you realize, okay, I'm maybe not exactly what they had envisioned originally. How obvious was it that you were going to be the version of Jonah that we are now familiar with? Was that clear?

[Timothy Simons]

It was clear from the beginning that he didn't have a lot of respect for anybody that worked in the vice president's office because he worked in the White House. You hear to spy Jonah, I'm not here to spy. I work at the White House, so I can just walk in and say, I'm from the White House. What the are you doing? What? At one point, Mike says, you're like the human version of a text message. Like, you're a post it note that can walk.

[Pablo Torre]

The liaison.

[Timothy Simons]

Yeah, I was the liaison, but he wore that as, like, I speak with the voice of the President.

[Pablo Torre]

The question of how enthusiastic you were about being an. Did that stop you at all?

[Timothy Simons]

I think, like, there's a certain sort of, like, wish fulfillment and freedom in playing bad people because they can go into a room and say the worst thing and not worry about it. Like, you don't have a lot of guardrails in performance. Dessert is an apple. America wants its fruit in roll up form, not this nerd feast. I mean, it's no wonder kids are shooting up schools with lunches like these. When I was a kid, I ate sloppy joes. I ate Tater Tots pizza on a bagel. The only green bean I ate was a green jelly bean. And I grew to be so tall, my stupid mom had to get a different car. I mean, I don't know that there's a downside to it outside of, like, people possibly assume I would then find myself in real life maybe being, like, too nice in situations where I should have been a little ruder because I don't want there to be an association between me and a person that is bad. You know what I mean?

[Pablo Torre]

I was going to ask you how. How often do you feel obliged to clarify that you are not, in fact, Jonah Ryan?

[Timothy Simons]

A lot of times. I actually remember getting a good piece of advice from Julia, which was if somebody calls you by your character's name in public, like, don't respond. And simply because that's not your name. And so, like, that has been a great piece of advice in that if somebody comes up. I am never rude to somebody. If they come up just in the way of, like, I've been. I cannot tell you how excited the first time I was when I ever saw Steve Buscemi. And so you don't want to make them feel like just because they liked something you did. You know what I mean?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Timothy Simons]

But there is a certain sense of, like, you have to draw a boundary somewhere. And if somebody shouts the name Jonah on the street, even if I hear it, I don't respond.

[Pablo Torre]

I am curious, though. Do they sort of take up the role of guy browbeating you a little sometimes?

[Timothy Simons]

Yes. I was in a grocery store one time. I'VE said this before where somebody just came up to me and said, jolly green face. What are you laughing about? Jolly green his face. Sorry. God damn. Why are you even here? Oh, I came here to tell you that you're a meme, man.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm a meme, ma'?

[Timothy Simons]

Am.

[Pablo Torre]

What are you talking about? Speak English, boy.

[Timothy Simons]

A meme. An Internet phenomenon. And I was like, I don't know, man. We're like, we're at the grocery store and you're talking about, like, we gotta just find like a. A gentler way to get into this. And I would say, like the times where like, and the very few and far between where like a drunk person starts yelling insults at me. I. I am sort of like, I don't really roll with that without being rude. I don't really, like, encourage that.

[Pablo Torre]

Sure, yeah. Now, in their defense, briefly, when there are scenes.

[Timothy Simons]

Does the devil need an advocate? Well, does the devil need an advocate?

[Pablo Torre]

I'm just saying sometimes if you're gonna be called a croissant dildo, kind of had to expect it's going to come up again.

[Timothy Simons]

I was trying to use Jonah for intelligence. That's like trying to use a croissant as a. I thought.

[Pablo Torre]

No, no, no.

[Timothy Simons]

Let me be more clear. It doesn't do the job and it makes a mess. She is so good.

[Pablo Torre]

It's ridiculous.

[Timothy Simons]

That sort of like, Let me be clear, like the, the. That wasn't scripted. That was something that she just threw in. And one thing I love about that's from like the first season.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Timothy Simons]

And like, you're still trying to figure out. You don't know where this is all going to go. Two things that I feel like are in what you just showed that end up being huge things is her temper, which ends up being like a very long running, sort of scary thing throughout a lot of the show. And so, like, when she like that line reading of it makes a mess.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, it's a volcanic.

[Timothy Simons]

The volcanic anger that's underneath that is incredibly funny and was kind of found in the moment. And also that she like sort of over enunciates croissant, which then leads to. She basically. This was not the case at the time, but she essentially hates America, so. She hates America and would rather live in France where people are hot and rich. You know what I mean?

[Pablo Torre]

The cosplaying of I am a champion of the working person.

[Timothy Simons]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

While also being incredibly, incredibly elitist.

[Timothy Simons]

Oh. Does that have any ties to what's happening right now, Pablo? Does that have any ties to what's going on. It's Election Day.

[Pablo Torre]

Selina Meyer as a character. When did it occur to you that there was Trump in this? Do you remember? Because Again, this was 2012. It started at what point was it like, oh, we are inadvertently crossing streams with reality in this way?

[Timothy Simons]

I remember when we started the show, the fun of it was like we were in the Obama area, so we were just sort of seeing the beginning of the Congress turning into a. Like a show of just the most insane people. The midterms had just happened, so you were first seeing that wave of, like, Tea Party people being elected.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Timothy Simons]

In the first season, you could see people who were holding on to their core values, but were trying to find ways to get them into practice without completely selling their souls. And at one point, I think it's season three or season four, there's like an episode called Alicia where they are trying to figure out how she's going to announce her candidacy. And, like, I feel like for me, that's the turning point where. Where they all left behind whatever principles they had and it just became the naked pursuit of power.

[Pablo Torre]

How are you? I just want you to know that.

[Timothy Simons]

Universal childcare is something I'm going to be passionate about in my campaign. Ma', am.

[Pablo Torre]

Childcare, Children are of no value. Forget child care.

[Timothy Simons]

It doesn't matter if you believe it, as long as you can convince people you believe it so that you can get elected. So, like, I think that sort of starts there. I know that, like, the Trumpian qualities of Selena were kind of. Or in the show, like, especially in the last season, were split between Selena and Jonah. Like, you could put all of, like, the xenophobia and anti vax stuff into Jonah and you could put the quest for power beyond anything and the demand for loyalty from. From her staff into her. You guys have to stop the recount.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm sorry, what? Stop the count.

[Timothy Simons]

Shut up, Gary. Ma', am, we can't.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't care.

[Timothy Simons]

The train has very publicly left the station and derailed at high speed. Speed.

[Pablo Torre]

No, you got to stop the count.

[Timothy Simons]

Ma', am. This would look like a size 14 flip flop. We really can't.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't give a.

[Timothy Simons]

You're going to cancel this recount like an Frank spot Mitzvah?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I'm on it. The utter and just total selfishness of. It's about me.

[Timothy Simons]

There is no one who has sacrificed more than me. And that ultimately culminates with Gary being sent to federal prison, even though he's been the most loyal to her because that Is just her body man. Yeah, her body man, played by Tony Hale. Like he ends up going to federal prison for years, for a decade.

[Pablo Torre]

And by the way, a body man being compromised in a perhaps federally problematic scandal.

[Timothy Simons]

Damn it. It's just, I, I, I truly hate it.

[Pablo Torre]

But Jonah Ryan, of course, loves it. And eventually, despite his profound unlikability, Jonah goes from striving West Wing aide to bonafide congressional candidate, which means filming a campaign ad.

[Timothy Simons]

Hello there, I'm Jonah Ryan and I grew up right here in the awesome state of New Hampshire, the granite state of the United States.

[Pablo Torre]

For your family, for your future, vote Ryan for Congress.

[Timothy Simons]

My name is Jonah Ryan and I approve this message.

[Pablo Torre]

And then a focus group of everyday Americans assesses the video.

[Timothy Simons]

His head is too big for his.

[Pablo Torre]

Body, but then sometimes his body's too.

[Timothy Simons]

Big for his head. He's the wrong shape. Shape is wrong.

[Pablo Torre]

Does anyone have anything positive to say about the ad? Like the kid? Yeah, like the kid in the ad, the little boy.

[Timothy Simons]

But I did not like that he was next to that guy. I was like, run. Oh, surprise, surprise, look who's here. Do you morons really not understand that this is a two way mirror? Seriously, are you shocked by that technology? I work in the West Wing, you Pepperidge Farm ad. Watch your mouth. Watch your mouth. You gotta learn to control your. I know at one point the guy who I think I call a sit your mom at mom jeans down, that guy at one point says like in response to that commercial, that wood's not gonna burn right.

[Pablo Torre]

You are chopping wood very, very poorly.

[Timothy Simons]

And so the guy says that wood's not gonna burn, right? That's not an insult, it's not offensive. You joke in a children's show, but it is still. I just love that joke. So number one, if you slow down frame by frame, that commercial of me chopping wood, the campaign ad, the campaign ad, you can see that I start to swing the axe. It then cuts to a close up of the wood splitting. And then it goes back to me, like sort of putting the thing on my shoulder. And if you slow it down frame by frame, you can see that the hands holding the axe are a black person's hands. I didn't have the upper body strength. And it's Sam Richardson who played Richard, who is actually successfully able to chop the wood. And that is a joke you'd have to go frame by frame to see.

[Pablo Torre]

And also that ad, though, what it captures too is the idea of I'm the outsider's insider, which is to say you worked in the West Wing, as you proudly declared in that earlier clip, but now you are dressed in the flannel and the robes of a common American.

[Timothy Simons]

Yes. And then like, you know, flash forward a few years later, there's that sort of like, weird, contemplative picture of Donald Trump Jr. In his cosplay. Rural Americana.

[Pablo Torre]

Exactly.

[Timothy Simons]

And the idea also, I mean, like the Outsiders Insider. It's the same of man. You were president for four years and you're still saying that you're part of, like, Marjorie Taylor Greene. I, I hate even saying the names of these people because it ultimately just turns into fundraising for them. But, like, you're just a congressperson now. You are a politician. So either do the job or don't. But don't just stay in there saying, I'm not this. I'm a real person. Like, do something or leave.

[Pablo Torre]

And what Jonah does, obviously, is get elected to Congress, not unlike J.D.

[Timothy Simons]

Vance.

[Pablo Torre]

And then later, Jonah decides to run for president, because of course he does. At which point, Jonah Ryan decides to campaign against a very familiar opponent.

[Timothy Simons]

And one more thing. I just found out from my stupid stepfather, father in law, from my stupid stepfather in law, that math was created by Muslims. Yeah. And we teach that this Islamic math to children. Math teachers are terrorists. They might not.

[Pablo Torre]

I love this. Okay, that. That's it. I may be a registered sex offender, but I cannot be a part of this. I'm.

[Timothy Simons]

I'm gone algebra. More like Al Jazeera under Orion presidency. I will ban this Sharia math from being taught to American children.

[Pablo Torre]

Then you coming?

[Timothy Simons]

There will be no more math. No more math. No more math. No more math. No more math. God, America.

[Pablo Torre]

No more math.

[Timothy Simons]

It's just so good. I mean, like, I think the, the, the, the comparison that we can make now that we are currently being forced to live through of like, a person that doesn't know how to order donuts at a donut store. Imagine being his wife and you're at Yale and you just, like you find the most ambitious person at Yale. What you gain from that is you have to sit through a Kid Rock concert at the Republican National Convention. Like the stuff about eating cats and dogs, There is like a shamelessness about it that goes even beyond these sort of heightened circumstances.

[Pablo Torre]

You know, the stuff that I wonder about personally is whether inside their nerve endings are alive enough such that they feel secretly the pain of not actually loving the demo that they're actually publicly performing for, whether the Comic Con of their politics is actually hollow inside, or whether they're Just fully transformed into, nope, this feels good. This is what politics is. They don't need to even begin to rationalize it anymore.

[Timothy Simons]

I don't know. That seems like a conversation for him in the mirror, you know what I mean? Like, just like, that's between you and God, man. But, like, at some point, the brain is, like, going to respond to positive affirmation. Like, in the way that, like, video games now are designed to addict kids. To them, they're like, we found out what is released in a child's brain when you give him a little prize on Fortnite. I'm sure, like, J.D. vance just going around the country getting little prizes from Fortnite. And just like, probably his brain has.

[Pablo Torre]

Rewired at this point, while also feeling, again, in a. In a familiar, childlike way, he's experienced being bullied in his mind, I bet.

[Timothy Simons]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Just the idea that all of these people think they're better than me in ways that now I resent. And so, yeah, maybe. Maybe the rewiring just isn't that complicated at this point.

[Timothy Simons]

It's quite obvious. Yeah. Like, that wasn't too far. It wasn't a huge span of a bridge to build for him to get.

[Pablo Torre]

There long after I had said, hey, hey, hey, Tim, will you come on the show? This is from days ago. The New Republic puts out one of these quizzes and it's who said it? Veep's Jonah Ryan or J.D. vance?

[Timothy Simons]

I actually got one of those wrong.

[Pablo Torre]

Which one did you get wrong?

[Timothy Simons]

It was the.

[Pablo Torre]

Was it. Let me give you some options.

[Timothy Simons]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Was it, quote, indigenous People's Day is a fake holiday created to sow division? Or was it, quote, who's taking care of your pet cats and. Or tarantula while you hate tweet me.

[Timothy Simons]

Oh, my God. I think. I think it was the first one that I got wrong because it felt like Joan at one point went on in Columbus Day rant.

[Pablo Torre]

Those were the ones that I got wrong.

[Timothy Simons]

They.

[Pablo Torre]

You.

[Timothy Simons]

They were, yeah. Were those both JD Vans?

[Pablo Torre]

Those are both JD Vans.

[Timothy Simons]

Okay. Yeah. The rest of them I. The rest of them I got right. But. Yeah, but you can imagine a world in which he is totally. Oh.

[Pablo Torre]

For your character on the show. It is the failing upwards dynamic of going from liaison to congressman. I forget when you became a streamer.

[Timothy Simons]

I think that was season. The beginning of season three infotainment. Thank you, Pablo. This is Jonah Ryan, and you are witnessing the birth of Ryantology. Old media like the Washington toast. Better go run and hide in the bathroom and join The Pooh York Times because we are cutting in. So. Yeah. So briefly he was like, like an online rabble rouser before being accepted back into the White House.

[Pablo Torre]

There's an actual person who runs a company called valuetainment in real life who's a Trump surrogate now. This guy Patrick bet David.

[Timothy Simons]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

And when I saw valuetainment, I was.

[Timothy Simons]

Like, that's the most actually a veep joke. Yes. This is a very important time in the history of America. This is a real war that's taking place. They're trying to brainwash your kids and take them away from you.

[Pablo Torre]

The scene where you are now back in front of Selena and surrounded by her staff and you've become a congressman and now you're going to be a member of her administration and they want you to become the vice president and your response as a character is what?

[Timothy Simons]

No. Just no.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, we do.

[Timothy Simons]

I don't know why we are here. Me neither.

[Pablo Torre]

But I love meeting new people.

[Timothy Simons]

She is offering you vice president, you.

[Pablo Torre]

Monument to vaginal dryness.

[Timothy Simons]

Well then no. I'm sorry I said no. As in never. I will be president or I will be nothing. And in fact, if I don't get the nomination, I might run as a third party. Just to your up. For whatever reason, RFK Jr. Probably thought he could have been president.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Timothy Simons]

Even though like, you know, you're like polling at like less than 1%.

[Pablo Torre]

The debate scene where it is the CNN debate for everybody polling at 5%.

[Timothy Simons]

Or less or not statistically significant.

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome back to tonight's debate featuring candidates.

[Timothy Simons]

Polling between 5% and not statistically significant.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm Bri Ramachand. I'm like, this is unfortunately quite germane to the actual administration staffing decisions happening at this moment.

[Timothy Simons]

He should be unbelievably excited to have that opportunity. And I just love that he like for the first moment he is sort of clear eyed in like, you know, nobody's going to tell me what to do on my own man. Might be the first moment where he actually just makes a decision, like a clear eyed decision for himself.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. His again, problematically engineered spinal cord actually stands straight up.

[Timothy Simons]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

For a, for a beautiful moment. And then what happens?

[Timothy Simons]

Then I just get brow beaten.

[Pablo Torre]

You shut the up you gum recessed face anus.

[Timothy Simons]

Don't you see you've just been offered the second most powerful job in the world. No, you shut up, Uncle. Uncle Jeff. I will not let anyone speak to me like that. President or nothing.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Timothy Simons]

They basically just browbeat me until I say like all Right, Fine. Okay, fine. Jesus Christ. I'll be vice president. Just stop yelling.

[Pablo Torre]

All right?

[Timothy Simons]

Which is, I guess, the entire thesis of the show generally, and that is.

[Pablo Torre]

Why I bring it up near the end here, which is that the entire point of why Veep is the title seems to be that what you think is power is actually pathetic in a nutshell.

[Timothy Simons]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And what you also maybe aspire to as, as a kid, as a innocent young American who wants to maybe make a difference in this country one day, what you're actually signing up for is to be in an office full of actual psychopaths.

[Timothy Simons]

Psychopaths performing a job that is a. In some ways irrelevant.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. The vice presidents, their impotence feels like something that I didn't fully appreciate until I watched a fictionalized depiction of the vice president.

[Timothy Simons]

I think there's something in the first or I think in the first season where Julia finds out that there's a meeting happening that she was supposed to be invited to. And she, like, puts on running shoes and runs to the meeting and pretends as if she's like, oh, you started without me. Like, you know what I mean? Like, to save face of, like, I wasn't invited, she finds her way there. And that was based on Al Gore, who was promised to be in every meeting. Like, I feel like this is just the thing. Like, you're going to be my right hand guy. Like, you're going to be in there with me every step of the way. And as soon as you get there, they're like, find something else to do. But that was based on Al Gore, who, whenever he was left out of a meeting, would just sprint to the White House. He would actually put on running shoes and run there to make sure that he was a part of it.

[Pablo Torre]

The thirst that we're describing here, as per the Al Gore example is a bipartisan one. The desperation.

[Timothy Simons]

I mean, like, there is a reason that there's the old joke of, like, what's the most dangerous place in Washington? And it's the in between Chuck Schumer and a video camera. Or like, in between Chuck Schumer and a microphone.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. Which brings me to how you will be spending Election Day.

[Timothy Simons]

Oh, God, man.

[Pablo Torre]

What's your game day routine, do you think? Are you. Are you somebody who's going to watch mainline cable news? Are you going to be unplugged? Are you going to be ordering food? Are you going to be sober? How does this all work for Timothy Simons?

[Timothy Simons]

I think most of the day is going to be spent, like, in a In a, in some sense of like clinical detachment or disassociation. Only because like I have anxiety surrounding it that cannot be solved. Like there is no solving it except for it being done. Like the, I don't know, there's like preeclampsia is a, is a disease that only exists in pregnant women and the only cure is to not be pregnant. You know what I mean? So I guess if we're just going to focus on the day, I will spend most of the day not looking at anything.

[Pablo Torre]

You're not going to be updating Twitter?

[Timothy Simons]

No, I got locked out of Twitter like two years ago and it's been the best thing that's ever happened.

[Pablo Torre]

What did you do to get locked out of Twitter?

[Timothy Simons]

Oh, it was like when the blue check thing happened, you had, you couldn't have two factor verification and I wasn't going to pay for it. And then somehow the two factor thing got messed up and I just can't get back in there. And honestly, it's so much better. Like the world is so much better. Like the people that make you mad, the Ben Shapiro's of the world, I can't tell you, they don't matter. They don't matter if it's, if you're not there. It's incredible. You know how many times people bring up Ben Shapiro, like never. Nobody's ever talking about him. It's incredible. So I will not be mainlining Twitter that day. I will be actively avoiding all news, I think until around when polls close. I'm assuming that we will end up as a family watching some of the returns. You know, our kids are now sort of old enough where they understand generally what's happening or what's at stake or what is interesting about it. And they're going to want to see a little bit of that.

[Pablo Torre]

You know, the thought that I have about my own daughter is whether I would ever want to encourage her, whose violet is four and a half, to go into politics at some point. I hate as a general rule, the people who are so thirsty to be a politician that they actually go through with a thing that feels and looks by all accounts actually miserable.

[Timothy Simons]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

But I'm also aware that the only way to get those people to not do that is to get people who are actually the ones that I would like to save our country to do the job. And It's a real catch 22. Tim.

[Timothy Simons]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, like, I don't know that we set up like the right system here. I don't know.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, you think, you think, you think.

[Timothy Simons]

Yeah, it's not like it's not going great.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, there is, there is something to. To that complexity that does drive me back towards the simplicity of draft day.

[Timothy Simons]

Yes. You know what? You know what was simple in draft Day? Vonte Mack, no matter what.

[Pablo Torre]

Vonte Mack, no matter.

[Timothy Simons]

You don't have to have anxiety about what you're gonna do. And if it's just Vonte Mack, no matter what.

[Pablo Torre]

Vonte Mack 2024.

[Timothy Simons]

I would a hundred percent vote for Vonte Mac.

[Pablo Torre]

That dude had so many people at his birthday party.

[Timothy Simons]

He had so many people at his birthday party. He cared about his family. He did things for the right reasons. He was a leader. He was an actual leader. You see him in the tunnel.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Timothy Simons]

Vonte Mack, 2024.

[Pablo Torre]

Timothy Simons. Thank you for for coming by the studio, man.

[Timothy Simons]

My pleasure. Good to see you.

[Pablo Torre]

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production and I'll talk to you next time. Sam.