Inside the Forbidden Love of Michael Jordan's Son and Scottie Pippen's Ex-Wife

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Inside the Forbidden Love of Michael Jordan's Son and Scottie Pippen's Ex-Wife"

Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Host: Pablo Torre (with correspondents Charlotte Wilder and Ryan Cortez)
Guests: Marcus Jordan and Larsa Pippen
Date: October 31, 2023
Duration: ~50 minutes

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Overview

In this episode, Pablo Torre dives into one of sports and reality TV’s most gossiped-about stories: the relationship between Marcus Jordan (son of Michael Jordan) and Larsa Pippen (ex-wife of Scottie Pippen). With co-conspirators Charlotte Wilder and Ryan Cortez, Pablo examines the surprising romance that collides NBA history, reality television, intergenerational drama, and tabloid spectacle. The hosts analyze the pair's own podcast ("Separation Anxiety"), question the authenticity of the relationship, and then interview Marcus and Larsa directly about love, family, and how they handle the endless public scrutiny.

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Main Themes & Purpose

• Dissecting the sensational relationship at the intersection of sports royalty and reality TV.
• Examining tabloid culture, authenticity, and personal branding in the social media age.
• Understanding the psychological and emotional dynamics behind a pairing that seems, by all measures, "forbidden."
• Directly interrogating Marcus and Larsa about their motivations, intentions, and feelings toward their high-profile families.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The “Soap Opera” Context (00:31–04:00)

• Pablo admits embarrassment at how entranced everyone (not just sports fans) is by the Jordan-Pippen romantic link.

• Recaps NBA mythology: Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen as the sport’s greatest duo—and now public enemies.

• Scottie’s pain and frustration with being in Michael’s shadow, as expressed in his memoir, and how this feud sets a loaded emotional stage.

  "I was nothing more than a prop. His best teammate ever, he called me. He couldn’t have been more condescending if he tried."
  — (Scottie Pippen’s memoir, read aloud, 02:45)

2. The Relationship as Tabloid “Mad Lib” and Reality TV Content (06:41–16:00)

• Charlotte and Cortez (both reality TV aficionados) binge the "Separation Anxiety" podcast, finding it bizarre yet addictive.

• The couple’s self-presentation (“I’m Larsa Pippen, Real Housewife of Miami”; “I’m Marcus Jordan, CEO Trophy Room”) and their consistent avoidance of using “Jordan” and “Pippen” connections directly.

• The podcast’s tone: a lot of “telling, not showing,” insistence on the authenticity of their love, and repeated boasting about how quickly they said “I love you.”

• The skepticism: how does this not feel engineered, a grab for attention, or a Bravo plotline?

  "If you have to say it, it isn’t true."
  — Charlotte Wilder (10:21)

3. Taboo, Public Perception, and the “Forbidden” Label (11:03–15:00)

• Larsa hesitates but finally admits: the pairing did feel “off-limits” because of the wider Jordan-Pippen feud—adding to the allure.

• Their narrative is less salacious up close; much of their podcast is domestic banality.

• The co-hosts debate: Is it real, is it for show, or both? Does public scrutiny make them closer, or is it part of the draw?

  "You're saying I want to be half of truly the most ridiculous tabloid story in sports."
  — Pablo Torre (12:44)

4. Avoiding the Elephant in the Room (15:07–16:03)

• Larsa never says “Scottie” except to reference her son; they constantly skirt the whole dynamic that made their romance newsworthy.
• On “Real Housewives of Miami,” Larsa frames her marriage to Scottie as disconnected, but never hostile.

5. The “Normality” Revealed (17:24–19:52)

• After hours of listening, the hosts concede: Marcus and Larsa genuinely seem to spend a lot of time together and feel like a “real couple”—even if a strange one.

• Even mundane details become loaded: Marcus’s favorite rewatchable movie is "The Last Dance" (the Jordan-focused doc Scottie Pippen dislikes).

  "If I’m Scottie Pippen, I would have punched a hole in my computer."
  — Pablo Torre (18:14)

6. Freudian Drama and Public Approval (21:15–23:24)

• Charlotte explores the notion that the relationship is a textbook case of Freudian “daddy issues” and triangulation.

• Pablo plays audio of Michael Jordan’s only public comment on the "Larcus" relationship— a terse, head-shaking “No” when asked if he approves.

  "What do you think about Marcus and Larsa Pippen together?"
  — Paparazzo (23:14)
  "No."
  — Michael Jordan (23:19)

7. The “No” Heard Around the World (24:19–26:46)

• Marcus recounts MJ’s denial, claiming it was all good-natured, and that "no" is just part of how Jordans joke.

• Charlotte observes: Marcus seems to get the most animated when talking about his father—and may value the attention even if it’s negative.

  "He was forced to acknowledge him. Michael Jordan was forced to acknowledge..."
  — Pablo Torre (26:02)

8. Interview with Marcus Jordan & Larsa Pippen (30:08–49:59)

a. Authenticity and Public Skepticism (31:27–33:07)

• They dismiss doubters: “We’re living our truth…if you aren’t happy about it, you can piss off.” — Marcus Jordan (31:30)
• Larsa: “Who has time for hocus pocus? I have five companies, four kids…” (32:49)

b. Taboo, Pros & Cons, Family Connections (33:28–35:16)

• Larsa: There were “a billion” pros, only cons were “our last names.”
• Marcus: No real prior relationship with Scottie; Larsa: never spent much time around MJ during Bulls era.

c. Family Dynamics & Boundaries (35:40–37:10)

• Larsa won’t discuss Michael Jordan or her ex in detail, only their own lives.
• Marcus says MJ told him, “You’re a grown-ass man, you can make your own decisions."

d. Normalcy Amid Absurdity & The “Wedding” Question (38:07–39:28)

• Wedding “in the works” but no date.
• Marcus: “I was the best man at his (MJ’s) wedding…we’ll keep that tradition going.”
• On whether they’ll film the wedding for TV: “Maybe we do multiple weddings, one private, one public.” — Marcus (39:10)

e. On Not Wanting to Cause Drama (40:34–44:13)

• Larsa stresses, “There’s no mess. I don’t want the smoke, I want none of that. I just want to be happy.”
• Larsa: If MJ demanded they not date, “we probably would just continue being friends.” (43:34)

f. MJ’s “No” Answer and Damage Control (44:13–46:09)

• Marcus downplays the meaning of MJ’s “no,” attributing it to jokes, “maybe too much tequila," and a family tradition of trash talk.

g. Identity, Legacy, and Public Judgment (46:25–49:46)

• Pablo summarizes: “The story of two friends living—not inside a reality TV show—but a rom com.”
• Larsa: “We’re kind of on the greatness path, too. Give us greatness, too. He was greatness.” (47:21)
• Direct message to skeptics (i.e., producer Cortez): “We’re authentic, we’re real, we’re truthful…If you can’t see it then you’re blind and it’s all good. We hope you get your vision back soon.” — Larsa (49:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It’s everything that myths, the Greek myths…it’s Shakespearean, it’s Freudian." — Charlotte Wilder (21:58)
• “If you’re not messy, you’re wasting potential!” — Charlotte on wishing the relationship was more dramatic for TV (48:40)
• "I feel like we complement each other in so many ways... anybody that isn’t happy about it can, you know, piss off." — Marcus Jordan (31:30)
• “I would never, ever in a billion years try to get back at my ex…” — Larsa Pippen (37:10)
• “We’re kind of on the greatness path, too, so give us greatness, too.” — Larsa Pippen (47:21)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:31: Pablo sets up the larger-than-life drama and the shameful allure of the story.
• 02:45: Reading from Pippen’s memoir about the Bulls/Jordan relationship.
• 06:41: Analysis of "Separation Anxiety" podcast and their carefully managed public self-presentation.
• 11:03: Larsa finally acknowledges the relationship was “off limits.”
• 18:04: Marcus says his favorite rewatch is "The Last Dance" (the ultimate Pippen button-pusher).
• 23:14: Michael Jordan’s famous “No” to approving his son’s relationship.
• 26:18: Marcus says the forbidden name—Scottie—and links the drama back to their fathers’ relationship.
• 30:08: Marcus and Larsa join the show.
• 31:30: Marcus on skeptics: “piss off.”
• 32:49: Larsa: “Who’s got time for hocus pocus?”
• 39:10: Marcus on the possibility of TV/filming the wedding.
• 44:13: Marcus recounts MJ texted him post-‘No’ saying: “You’re an adult. You can do as you please.”
• 47:21: Larsa: “Give us greatness, too.”
• 49:27: Final direct message to skeptics.

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Tone and Style

Lively, witty, irreverent, yet probing and occasionally tender. The hosts balance tabloid glee, psychological speculation, and personal empathy, while Marcus and Larsa present themselves as surprisingly grounded, deflecting drama and insisting on the ordinariness behind their extraordinary circumstances.

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Takeaways

• The Marcus/Larsa relationship is irresistibly newsworthy because it sits at the intersection of two legendary, feuding families—but in their telling, it’s mostly just…normal.
• Despite outside suspicions and endless tabloid speculation, Marcus and Larsa insist their love is genuine—and perhaps mundane—though the world can’t help but see it as endlessly dramatic.
• The couple posture themselves as unbothered by critics, refusing to stoke tabloid flames and showing surprising restraint and media savvy.
• The story is as much about sports mythology, family legacies, and America’s obsessions as it is about two people.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode offers a nuanced, human look behind the headlines, blending comedic skepticism with heartfelt questions. It’s a must-listen for fans of sports, reality TV, and the psychology of fame—providing plenty to ponder about love, legacy, and the difficulty of ever really escaping the Jordan/Pippen shadow.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're going to find out what this sound is.

[B]

I don't have a problem telling someone a to their face right after this ad.

[C]

You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network.

[A]

Okay, so this episode is gonna be different from the episodes that you might be used to. And I do need to explain why. There is one specific story that pretty much everybody in my life who is not a die hard sports fan has been totally obsessed with and asking me about and asking and asking to the point where I became obsessed with it and I started asking other people about it too. But the whole thing here for me, I must admit as a journalist, is that it's a little shameful. Because this story, the story I've been quietly probing for a while now, is all about the romance between Larsa Pippen, a real housewife of Miami who was married to Scottie Pippen for 24 years until December 2021, and Marcus Jordan, who just so happens to be Michael Jordan's kid. And so Larsa, age 49, and Marcus, age 32, they now say a wedding is in the works. What's the possibility of a marriage happening.

[D]

Between you and Larsa? We're looking for a location.

[A]

So Marcus and Larsa were leaving Jones.

[D]

And Weho and the cameras ask them like, hey, do you guys have a date? And it'll work. Oh my God.

[A]

Which, you know, fair reaction. Because the other important bit of context here obviously is that Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen are the most famous and most successful duo in sports history. And also maybe human history, now that I think about it. Everybody knows this story, right? The greatest superstar ever, the greatest sidekick ever, combining to be not just first ballot hall of Famers, but six time champions with the Chicago Bulls. The greatest team team ever as chronicled in the Last dance. You know, ESPN's massively popular documentary from 2020, a documentary that Scotty hated, by the way, as this excerpt from the autobiography he published after the Last Dance came out made extremely clear.

[C]

I was nothing more than a prop. His best teammate of all time, he called me. He couldn't have been more condescending if he tried. Each episode was the same. Michael on a pedestal, his teammate secondary, smaller. The message no from when he referred to us back then as his supporting cast from one season to the next. We received little or no credit whenever we won. But the bulk of the criticism when we lost. Michael Jordan would never have been Michael Jordan without me. Horace Grant, Tony Kukoc, which is all.

[A]

To say that the ultimate sidekick, the ultimate beta, has very publicly broken up with the alpha of all alphas.

[D]

Watching you and Michael on the court, it looked like two best friends out there just crushing everybody. What was your relationship like off the court? It wasn't what you saw on the court.

[A]

And what we're seeing now is that guy's ex wife, the mother of Scottie Pippen's four kids, dating the son of the guy he has been feuding with, a son who last played organized basketball, incidentally, at the University of Central Florida. And all of it has dragged both Scotty and Michael, who are already clearly both just incredibly image conscious, into this real life soap opera, which is unlike anything I have ever seen before. In fact, this story raised so many questions for me that a couple months ago I enlisted the help of not one, but two friends to seriously investigate whether this relationship, this whole thing, was even real. And one of them, producer Ryan Cortez, you already know Cortez loves reality tv, unsurprisingly. He loves the Housewives, loves Vendor Pump Rules, unironically. All that. And our other friend, Charlotte Wilder, you may know as co host of Oddball Meadowlarks NBA show, and she also speaks fluent Bravoese. But before we meet Marcus and Larsa ourselves, I do feel like you should know something else about what Larkus has been up to recently. And Charlotte too. Charlotte Wilder. First off, I feel like, Ryan, we should say congrats big time to show.

[C]

Thank you guys. Thank you so much. For what?

[A]

I mean, for finding love in a hopeless place.

[C]

Well, I don't know, but thank you guys so much. Yes, I did get married. Thank you. This past summer. It was lovely. Very low key, which is how we wanted it, which is also a few weeks before is when I got the call from you.

[A]

Yeah. I want to apologize as well as congratulate.

[C]

Tell me why you're sorry, Pablo.

[A]

Because I called you as you were getting ready for, you know, the consummation of your love, and I assigned you a story about love that must have felt very callous because I kind of just unilaterally decided that you had to do this.

[C]

No, it was. It was one of the better calls I've ever gotten in my career. For those of you who were not on the phone, which is everybody but me and Pablo. Pablo's like, hey. And I'm like standing outside a fish store and with my mom, I'm like, okay, you go and get. I have to. Pablo's calling me and like there's traffic going by and he's like, we have to do an episode on Marcus Jordan and Larsa Pippen and the fact that they're together. And I was like, you? Yes. And like a car whooshes by and I'm like, what? And then. And that's how this all began.

[A]

Yeah. And then I think I called you back and I was like, by the way, Cortez is in. And also it turns out they have a podcast.

[C]

And I was like, let's go.

[A]

I want to cut through the noise of this because what I have asked both of you to do, and you did it to varying levels of enthusiasm, begrudgingly, because you forgot Cortez, who somehow loves reality television but hates this. I had us listen to all of the episodes of Separation Anxiety, which is the podcast hosted by Marcus and Larsa, who will now get first name basis with us because we've been living with them in our ears for weeks, months now at this point.

[E]

No disrespect to them, but it's one of the worst podcasts I've ever done.

[A]

So spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. No disrespect, no disrespect. No offense, but I guess I should just play how it begins for people who are not lucky enough to have listened to this show.

[B]

Hi, guys, I'm Larsa Pippin. I'm on the Real Housewives of Miami.

[D]

And I'm Marcus Jordan, CEO and founder of Trophy Room. And we're here for our first episode of our podcast and what's it called, Barry?

[B]

Separation Anxiety.

[D]

Separation Anxiety with Larsa and Marcus.

[B]

I love that. We sound so cute with that.

[D]

I love it too.

[C]

I am going to hear Marcus Jordan's voice in my head going, hahaha. When I'm being lowered into my grave. And then Larsa saying, I love it, babe. The way they introduce themselves here. She says, I'm Larsa Pippin. I'm on the Real Housewives of Miami. He says, I'm Marcus Jordan Stevenson, CEO and founder of Trophy Room. What you actually are, the way the public knows you, is you are Scottie Pippen's ex wife and you are Michael Jordan's son.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

This I think is very telling about the whole way they structure this, of wanting to. They're trying to like, take something back, as we will find out. But that, I think is a very. Is a big clue.

[A]

But this textual reading of this podcast is why I wanted to do this, because they are telling their own story.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And in, in depth. And so Trophy Room, by the way, is a Jordan brand store In Chicago. Like, this is, again, a literal Michael Jordan thing that he is identifying as his thing. But also what he's identifying is. Is the title of the show, Separation Anxiety, which is about how they can't bear to be apart. Marcus tells this story about how they met four years ago in the most romantic place on earth, which is the VIP room of a Jordan brand party alongside Fat Joe.

[D]

Anytime there's an event like that, I kind of like to be the liaison for people to kind of, you know, get close to my dad, get in the. In the top secret section. And so I think it was either Joe or DJ Khaled texted me and was like, hey, we'd love to see Pops. And you just happened to be with them. And so I finessed away for everybody to get in. I just found myself staring at you across the room and, like, wanting to talk to you and get to know you more. Plus, we've got a lot of mutual friends.

[A]

Oh, do you. Who could that? Who could that be?

[E]

Can we talk to you about that? Like, we started the pod with their introduction, and he's the CEO of Trophy room or whatever. He could also have introduced himself as, hey, I'm a liaison for people to get close to my dad.

[A]

That's what he does, dude.

[D]

Like.

[A]

Well, this is. This is the part about the mutual friends, right? It's like, yeah, maybe. Maybe mutual friends like Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen once upon a time. Are those the mutuals you're describing? So all of this is the backdrop, incidentally, for Marcus courting Larsa, and, oh, yeah, it's romantic.

[D]

So every time I would be in Miami, we would say, hey, you know, I'm in town. What you up to? Where you at tonight? You know, And I feel like it just kind of gradually happened over time.

[B]

Yeah. You know, it's crazy because I kind of, like, thought you were, like, my homie for a long time.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

They spend a lot of time talking about how they weren't dating at first.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And how they were just friends. And it's like a lot of this podcast, something I think of whenever I was listening to this is if you have to say it, it isn't true. Like, the amount they're trying. And it reminded me. This is for you, Cortez, of something Tyler Herro said the other day.

[E]

Oh, you have my attention.

[C]

He said, I know my value. I know I'm one of them ones. And I don't need to say it. I'll show you. But he just said it.

[A]

Right, right.

[C]

You know we talked about that on Oddball. Shameless plug.

[A]

Good pod.

[E]

Saying the thing without saying the thing while looking like an. With the headband and the floppy hair. I love Tyler Herro, but he did say the thing.

[C]

He did. And they just keep saying the thing that they could show but somehow don't fully make it.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of telling.

[C]

Lot of telling.

[A]

Not so much showing. Marcus Jordan. Just to recap here, Michael Jordan's son begins to try and win the heart of Scottie Pippen's ex wife. Yes. I just feel like I need to keep saying that in part because they don't say it, but also because how does that happen exactly behind the scenes?

[C]

Let's hear that. Let's hear it from them.

[B]

I don't know what it was, but I felt like at dinner I kind of was looking at you like, God, he's really cute. And then that night at liv, I kind of felt like, no, he's hot as.

[D]

Thank you.

[B]

And then it was just kind of like, I never viewed you like that before. Just because I figured, like, this was like, off limits. Like, it was not something I wanted to go to war for. You know, I feel like you have to pick and choose your battles. And I wasn't sure that this battle was going to be.

[D]

That's true.

[B]

Know, I was kind of skeptical because I kind of felt like, why would you do this, Larsa? Why would you do this? Why would you date someone that, you know, just the families. It's just a really crazy situation to be in.

[A]

I mean.

[C]

Okay, she finally says the thing.

[A]

I mean, this is like Romeo and Juliet. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

A forbidden love.

[C]

I feel like this was off limits. Like the two biggest teammates in basketball who now kind of hate each other.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And she's like, I felt like it was off limit, not something I wanted to go.

[A]

You think. You think it was a little off limits.

[E]

And. But what changed for her if you read it, what she's saying is like, he's so hot that, like, now it is on limits. Which is kind of a crazy, like, the delineation factor for her on, like, what? Swing it?

[A]

Like, right.

[C]

He's hot as Cortez.

[A]

But, I mean, just think about making the decision to enter this relationship as either one of these people. Yeah. You're saying I want to be half of truly the most ridiculous tabloid story in sports. Like, this is explosive in ways that are obvious. It also is so explosive that it feels, again, engineered. Like, I think a lot of people's hypothesis about this is, this is a put on, this is fake, simply because the incentives are so obvious. Because of course, like, this is a tabloid Mad Lib.

[C]

It feels like, what could you do if you were Marcus Jordan or Larsa Pippen and you wanted to get the most possible attention?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

It feels like, well, obviously you would get together and talk about getting married.

[A]

And you would also say that it took not as long as you might think for them to. To say how much they love each other.

[B]

How many days do you think it took, do you remember, for you to tell me you love me?

[D]

Uh, I feel like I can count it on one. One hand. I think it was like three, four days where I was like, damn, I think I love you.

[C]

I. I would run for the hills. That's the scariest. That's like.

[E]

So they started as, by her words, I thought you were my homie friends without any of this. Then there was some point randomly we're in her head. She knew there was off limits. And then she's like, he's really hot now. It's.

[A]

Yep. She felt in her loins.

[E]

And then three days later, they're in love. So if you, if people are looking at that and they're like, that's not real, you could see why somebody might deduce that.

[A]

Right? Like, how dare you?

[C]

Yeah. Cortez, how many episodes of this there.

[A]

Were at last check? There were, I believe, a baker's dozen.

[C]

I mean, that's a lot. I started going two speed on this, but I really. She has. Larson never says Scotty's name, except when she says Scotty Jr talking about her son, which feels even more intimate in a way to me. But she says my ex. She says, when you break up with someone respectfully.

[B]

For instance, I remember when my ex played in Portland, Oregon. Good. I can handle my kids with or without my ex. And you know, when I met my ex, I didn't even like him. My experience with my ex was not bad. All the news media is saying that I am getting half of my ex's pension.

[E]

Yes, all of that. But also in certain ways, she doesn't bash him. Like she will on the same breath say, like, would you tell your kids to date an athlete? And she's like, yeah, my experience with an athlete was fine. Or she might even use the word good.

[A]

Marcus frames it a little bit differently.

[D]

Would it matter to you if your partner had been with several high profile people before you?

[B]

I don't think so. Do you?

[D]

I mean, obviously not. I think you've been linked to Some. Some, you know, notable people in the past. And so, no, I don't think that that bothers me. It's just. It's just part of the game, I guess.

[A]

This is where I was just yelling at my phone. Yes.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, listening to this show and being like, I am here for one reason, and you're not saying the reason. Say his name. Say Scottie Pippen's name.

[C]

They don't give us details. They dance around the elephant in the room, even when they're talking about the elephant in the room.

[E]

And just for some more context, the way she frames that relationship on the Real Housewives of Miami is more like, I was taking care of everything. Scotty was away. Scotty was doing this. I took care of the house, I took care of the kids. So you feel a love of, like, they're disconnected and. And so forth.

[A]

I just want to point out that Cortez unilaterally decided to just watch the Real Housewives of Miami. I'm not asking to do that.

[C]

Cortez was like, I'm on it. I got Real Housewives. And we were like, okay.

[E]

Sucks as well. They are a bunch of fake Miami people. She's on my real house was in Miami, living in Fort Lauderdale.

[A]

Like, come on, bro.

[E]

What are you doing?

[C]

Oh, well, even I know. Even the most New England person in the world knows that that's not the same thing when you talk about the disconnect. Cortez, the name of this podcast is Separation Anxiety. Regardless of what you think about this, she is with someone who she is joined at the hip with, and they. He doesn't have to go away. He's not playing basketball well. He tried. He's not. And so they can just be together. And maybe there's something about that that is, like, very, very appealing to her after basically being the CEO of a family while her husband did the incredibly demanding job of being a professional NBA player.

[A]

And so I should point out that as you get deeper into this podcast, you know, to me, I actually began to feel, because so much of their stories end up being fairly mundane and about how much time they spend together, I was kind of like, I can actually see why they get along. I was like, I kind of buy this. I don't think they're, like, showing up as actors to, like, goose the algorithm and then disappearing. I think they're actually spending a whole lot of time together.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And. And you ask each other question, you know, to pass the time, questions like this.

[B]

Okay. So let me ask you a question. What's the one movie that you can watch over and over again?

[D]

The one movie I can watch over and over is the Last Dance.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[D]

I mean, we don't need to go into that.

[A]

So this is where I was like, I can't even. Yes. Finally, Marcus. Finally. I was listening to this podcast, thinking a lot of the time about how Scottie Pippen might react to. To what we're hearing. And that part, if I'm Scottie Pippen, I would have punched a hole in my computer like the backdrop on this. Right. Like, Scottie Pippen hated the Last Dance. No one hated the Last Dance, the giant epic film that ESPN put out with Michael Jordan about Michael Jordan more than Scottie Pippen.

[C]

If you are giving Marcus a benefit of the doubt here, if you're saying, okay, if you are acting in good faith, if you do love this woman so much, if you're. If you're not really trying to rock the boat, which I don't think it's mutually exclusive, I think they can be in love. And he's also. There's something he's getting out of this. Something that she's getting out of this. But you would not say the one movie I can watch over and over is the Last Dance. Especially because, like, the movie that your ex hated the most, that he wrote a book. Like, you can't tell me that's not a little bit poking the bear. Especially when Marcus is only in, like, the tiniest, tiniest little bit at the end. He's an afterthought.

[A]

But this is the thing. What if Marcus Jordan authentically just loves the Last Dance? And that's the actual right answer. Like, I think all of these things could be true. It's that he is both, like, kind of cheekily poking at Larsa's ex. And also, like, it's true. It seems to hold up that Marcus Jordan's favorite thing in life is swimming in the mythology of his family.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I believe this, too. Again, it feels like the. It finally feels like the juice. We're. We're demanding. And also, like, I think he actually loves this. I think of him as Kendall Roy.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Like, I think there's some obsession here.

[C]

Also. Michael Jordan has three kids. Two boys, one girl.

[E]

Yeah, they were here.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Although. Although. Isn't Marcus the younger son?

[A]

Marcus is not the eldest boy. It's fair. It's a fair point. He's not the eldest boy. But we should point out here as we. Theorize that. Like, we reached out to Scottie Pippen because we are journalists for comment. He did not respond.

[E]

Coward.

[A]

All right, just jumping in here to say that I. We do not think Scottie Pippen is actually a coward. In fact, I kind of feel for him. Right. Like, this story to me is also about how Scotty is, in some sense, again, getting humiliated by Michael Jordan. And that sucks objectively, even if it is not Michael actually doing the humiliating. And we should also say that we did reach out to Michael. We reached out to Michael Jordan's spokesperson, and they told Pablo Torre, finds out that Michael had, quote, unquote, no comment on his son's relationship with Larsa Pippen.

[E]

Coward.

[C]

Something I have. I'm sorry to get academic on all of you, but this is. This could not be more Freudian if it tried. The definition of, like, daddy issues that, you know, Freud wrote about was the child forms a strong attachment with a parent of the opposite sex and feelings of competition towards a parent of the same sex. And a lot of this has been debunked. Like, a lot of the. A lot of psychiatrists and psychologists now are like, I don't know, that feels pretty simple. But by its whole definition, this is. It's like, oh, my. And. And I do not mean to armchair psychologize anybody here, but that.

[B]

It.

[C]

It just sort of hit. It's Shakespearean, it's Freudian. It's like, it's everything that myths, the Greek myths. It's like all of the things that you had to read in school.

[A]

No, it raises. It demands the question of how much of his relationship with his dad is the motive for why you would do this? There are so many people on the planet, right? Is your love really so blind that it happened to arrive at the one person that would demand attention, the most possible attention from your father and Larsa.

[E]

The same question in relation to Scotty. Like, would you do this to, you know, potentially upset that person?

[A]

Right? And then.

[C]

And then, guys, after listening to the podcast, part of me is like, yeah, maybe, like, maybe their love is that blind. Maybe they were like, this is the only person in the world I can be. Like, I have to say it.

[A]

I know. I know. I. I am.

[C]

And. And that's like, I was brainwashed a little bit, but also, like, maybe it's. Maybe both of those things are all true at the same time.

[A]

We reached out to Michael Jordan for comment. He did not respond, but he did have this thing in Paris in July where he responded to the paparazzi. Hey, Mr. Jordan.

[C]

What do you think about Marcus and Laza Pippin together?

[D]

Do you approve of it?

[A]

No.

[D]

You don't approve?

[A]

Do you approve? No.

[D]

No.

[C]

I can't believe it. It's so. Oh, my God. Like, that video is also just burned into my brain. Like, I close my eyelids and I see Michael Jordan walking to car saying no.

[E]

What was the headline after that?

[A]

Yeah, the TMZ headline, right, Is quote, michael Jordan, colon, hell no. I don't approve of son dating Larsa Pippen.

[C]

I mean, he didn't say hell no.

[A]

He did not say hell no.

[E]

I always try to defend, like, the salacious headline, but that's tough to defend, like to take a no and to turn it into all.

[A]

But I will say this, it felt like a hell no to some of the people involved. It turned out, because one of my favorite parts of this entire saga of listening to this podcast is hearing Marcus's behind the scenes accounting of what actually happened after that clip.

[C]

When I heard this, I was walking as I want to do when I'm on the phone or listening to anything, and I stopped in my tracks and my jaw dropped and I was like, he did not just. This was not just his explanation.

[D]

He gets asked the question, does he approve of our relationship or something.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And at first he laughed. You know, kind of like how I laugh. I like, I think I laugh at a lot of the questions that we go through on this podcast. But he laughed. And then the reporter, I guess, asked him again, and he let out an emphatic no and then shook his head again as he was walking into the car. And so, you know, obviously my whole family, we're all competitive. The Jordans, like, part of our DNA is to talk. You know, for me, obviously we knew ahead of time. Cause he texted and called me and wanted to make sure that I didn't take anything the wrong way. And so I can only assume, because I know my dad loves Sinkoro, he drinks tequila all the time, that he was a little. He was feeling himself a little bit walking.

[B]

He was feeling good. He was on vacation.

[D]

He was feeling good. He was feeling good.

[C]

I hate to be so cynical. I don't know that I believe this. I don't know. Because the. The most animated Marcus ever gets on this podcast is when he is talking about his father reacting to him. The most animated we ever hear him is when he's like. And my. And he let out an emphatic no. And it's like triumph. There's a triumph in it because he's 100%. He might not have said, yes, I approve, but he said he was paying attention. And almost better than a yes is a no. They got under his skin. They affected him. If he'd just been like, yeah, sure, whatever. I don't think it would be as satisfying to Marcus based on how he has responded to other things. Totally speculating here than that. Emphatic. No.

[A]

He was forced to acknowledge him. Michael Jordan was forced to acknowledge.

[C]

And not only acknowledge, but have an opinion about.

[A]

And then Marcus does the one thing that they never do, which he says. He says the forbidden name.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, I don't think that obviously, he thought of the timing. His. His goal has always been to, you know, stay clear of our relationship. I think, look at the root of it, obviously, is my dad's relationship with your ex, Scotty. And so, you know, obviously, we never talk about that. And I don't think that my dad wanted to comment on that. Yikes.

[C]

Finally. Finally, I. Okay, he did comment on that.

[A]

Yeah. My dad. I don't think that my dad wanted to comment on that, except for when he yelled no.

[C]

I just can't imagine being in a relationship with someone where there. There is. The entire story of your relationship is based on other people, and you don't talk about those other people. That's insane.

[A]

I mean, you guys remember the hall of Fame induction speech that Michael Jordan delivered?

[E]

My God, Classic.

[A]

Like, the most iconic hall of Fame speech ever. To me.

[C]

Crying Jordan gave us. Crying Jordan.

[A]

Yes. It's what birth. Crying Jordan. But it was.

[E]

He took out some people, right? I don't remember if there's the specific.

[A]

Well, he criticized everybody, and inadvertently or maybe just, like, authentically, he kind of.

[C]

Took out his own kids, like, in a big way.

[A]

Yeah. Like, Marcus is, like, on screen when he says this.

[D]

Obviously, you see my kids, you know, Jeffrey, Marcus, Jasmine. I love you guys. I think you guys represent a lot of me, a lot of different personalities. Your mom, you represent them as well. You know, I think that you guys have a heavy burden. I wouldn't want to be you guys if I had to, you know, because of all the expectations that you have to deal with. I mean, look around you. You know, they charge you $1,000 tickets for this game, for this whole event. It used to be 200 bucks, but I paid it. You know, I had no choice. I had a lot of family, a lot of friends I had to bring in. So thank you, hall of Fame, for. For raising ticket price, I guess.

[A]

And so that's the backdrop for, like, Logan, Roy and one of his sons, who wants attention, who's never quite good enough, who wants to matter.

[C]

It is so sad to me. It also makes me think of what we played earlier when he says, you know, my family's competitive. This is how we interact. Like, that's their. That's their connection is when they're negging each other.

[A]

I mean, imagine you grew up the son of Michael Jordan. At some point you stopped. At some point you just began to believe, right, that your dad is not like other dads, that your dad is actually like Zeus. And all you want from Zeus to return to this larger theory is for him to give a shit about you.

[C]

Marcus just opened himself up to this. Marcus put something out into the world with not quite enough information, but just enough that we can start to try to understand him. And I don't fully. I don't know, I don't get the sense at least that he fully knew what he was signing up for. Like, as we talk about this, not to get too meta, I keep thinking about them listening to this episode and how would they feel hearing Marcus and Larsa, hearing us talk about their relationship like this that they ostensibly wanted us to be talking about because they talked.

[A]

About it on a podcast about them.

[C]

Yes.

[E]

How do you think he thought it would play out?

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

If he did, I feel like to get even more meta, I feel like we should probably ask them. And that's after the break. Hello? Hello?

[C]

Hello.

[D]

I don't know if they can hear us.

[A]

Oh, we can hear you guys. Where are you guys right now, by the way?

[D]

We're in la.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Yeah. When Lars is not filming the show in Miami, we're based out of here just because our kids are here.

[A]

Guys, I should say that this is a very surreal thing for us because Charlotte and I have. And producer Ryan Cortez, who's hiding behind the glass like a coward. We've listened to every episode of your podcast, and this, this is. I'm. I'm a little nervous.

[C]

I'm very nervous. It's like being inside your podcast. Like, you guys have been inside our ears so much that I. I'm. I'm like, oh, my God.

[B]

Excited to be here, you guys.

[D]

Oh, yeah. Let's do this.

[A]

Right. I should point out for our podcast audience that Marcus and Larsa are sitting very close together, arm around the other, sipping Marcus's a nice cup of coffee, smiling, radiant. And behind the glass here, our producer, Ryan Cortez is one of the. Is one of the haters. Okay, so he's Like, I don't believe this relationship is real. This is engineered. This is too. It's too on the nose, guys. That's what he says, and I've heard that across the Internet. So what do you say to such people who still have doubts about this?

[D]

Can we swear on here?

[A]

Absolutely. Please.

[D]

I was just gonna say, you know, that's. That's kind of my mentality is them all. Because, you know, I just feel like we compliment each other in so many different ways that, like, whatever, you know, she's having a good day, I'm there to support her and, you know, and vice versa. And so, I don't know, I feel like we're living in our truth, and anybody that doesn't. That doesn't. That isn't happy about it can, you know, can piss off.

[C]

I guess part of me does wonder, like, when you guys met and you started dating Larsi, you even say on the podcast, you're like, oh, my God, is this worth it? Like, I know what's gonna come with this. There's so many fish in the sea. Do you think any part of you were attracted to each other, to the idea of the relationship, because it felt a little taboo or a little dangerous or.

[B]

No, not at all. Once we started hanging out more and more together, we just kind of like we're attracted to each other and we are so much alike that it's crazy. So, yeah, I know esthetically, it probably doesn't look good. And I feel like when people see us together and hang out with us, they're like, you know, it makes sense, but I think just to hear of it, it doesn't. Like, it doesn't resonate well.

[D]

I think the more time that people spend around us, they realize that it's genuine, you know?

[A]

Well, listening to you guys talk about it at length, that it becomes clear, at the very least, if you guys are putting on a show here, you're putting a lot of time into this show.

[B]

Well, you guys, who's got time to. I already have a show here. A business. Who's got time for Hocus Pocus? We don't. I don't. I have five companies, you guys, like, I. Four kids. Who's got time for that? And we clearly don't need to, you know, fake a relationship for over a year. Who would do that? I would never do that.

[A]

So. So the question I have, though, is because you guys are also. And this is the part that extra, extra breaks my brain is, Larsa, you are a reality television star. And so the thinking Right. Of the pros and cons. Take us to the pros and cons list you must have been making in your head when you guys are just now contemplating romance.

[B]

I mean, you know, I think for us, because we were friends before, I just knew that it would. It would be hard for us to date, you know, I just knew it was, like, impossible. Like, how could I date Marcus? It's impossible. And the more and more time we spent together, it was like the pros were. There were so many pros, you guys. It was like a list of a billion.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And the cons were our last names. And that's literally what it was, our last names. I'm not concerned with, like, my ex or Marcus is. Like, we're both adults. I don't ask my ex who he dates. I've never said one bad thing about my ex. I wish him nothing but the best. I feel like for me, the only thing that, like, I care about is my happiness, Marcus's happiness, and my kids that are affected by us being together. And I feel like my kids love him, and he fits in our family so effortlessly. And it's just like an easy. You know, it's like an easy relationship. And I also want to say, and I feel like we have a lot in common, maybe because we're both from Chicago. We both grew up kind of in the same place. Like, Marcus was friends with my brother in law, played basketball. My brother in law not including me for years. You know, it's like his circle. Like, he knows all my cousins.

[D]

Yeah. I like to say we're cut from the same cloth in that Chicago upbringing.

[A]

Well, also the Chicago Bulls jersey, that literal cloth. I mean, guys, this is. This is the part that's.

[B]

I wish I could take credit for the whole Chicago Bulls, like, run, but I. I was. I was a. A senior at UIC when Scotty played with Marcus's dad.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was in college. I was, like, 21 years old when they played together. I was only there for one year. The. And I was like, never in Chicago with his dad again. So it wasn't like people think, like, oh, she was there the whole time I was in high school.

[C]

And Marcus, what did you have a relationship with Scotty? I saw, you know, I was looking through Instagram and that he reposted trophy room in, like, 2017. Has. Has that been a factor at all?

[D]

Oh, no, I wasn't even aware of that. And, you know, no, I saw him, you know, whenever he was around my dad. And, you know, that's Kind of what it was. But no, I wouldn't say that we had any type of relationship, no.

[A]

What's it like, Larsa, to have, have you been around Michael while in the relationship that you have with Marcus? How, how? I want to just imagine that if it's happened. What can you tell us about what that is?

[B]

Like, I feel like I don't really want to talk about Mark. Like, I don't want to talk about Michael, I don't want to talk about my ex. I feel like we're really comfortable talking about us. Yeah, I feel like our families just want us to be happy and, you know, I feel like I don't want to put too much emphasis on your family or my family. Other than like us and my kids that are affected by our relationship.

[D]

Yeah, other than that.

[B]

Like no one's really affected by our relationship. To be honest.

[D]

I think the main thing for my dad was like, look, you're a grown adult. Grown ass man is what he said.

[C]

And is that what he texted you?

[D]

Yeah, I mean, exactly. He was like, you're a grown ass man. You can make your own decisions. You know, ultimately, as long as I'm happy, he's happy. And so, you know, he's never intervened in my dating life prior to Larsa and so he's not going to start now.

[A]

So, but this, but Larsa and guys, I totally understand you. This is a diplomacy that I'm impressed by because it feels like as reality television is concerned, you guys are leaving some juice on the table. Right? Like, if you guys were messier, I think the potential of this to be an even bigger tabloid Internet breaking story would be obvious to me, Larsa. And yet you're, you're, you're clearly like not interested in, in that degree of mess.

[B]

Well, I, I, there's no mess. Do you know what I mean? I'm not, I'm not like that. I don't want the smoke, I don't want, I want none of that. I just want to be happy. And I feel like together we make each other happy. And it's not like, I know, I've read things online that basically people are like, oh, she's trying to get back at her ex, or. And I'm like, it's none of that. It's like I've never been that person. I would never ever in a billion years try to, you know, like, do that. That's not my intention. But if you meet someone and you have a great connection with them and they make you happy and you fall in Love with them, then that's what it is. It's not like, you know, it's not like we're hurting anyone. It's not like, you know, we're just both happy. So I think people should just be happy for us. The same way I would be happy for someone that found love. Like, I am a romantic person. I would be happy for them.

[A]

Charlotte just got married by the.

[C]

I did. Yes.

[D]

Congrats.

[C]

When's the wedding, you guys?

[A]

And speaking of which, how about you guys?

[D]

Exactly. It's in the works. This is my, is my go to saying right now. You know, I don't think we have like a date. We're still talking about locations and party size and all of that stuff, so it's not really concrete yet, but it's. It'll happen.

[A]

Marcus, do you want, do you want your dad to give a toast at your wedding? How does this work?

[D]

Yeah, you know, look, I was the best man at his wedding and so. And the best man at my brother's wedding. And so obviously we'll keep that tradition going. Is my, my thoughts on it.

[A]

I want, I want in. I want, I want video cameras there.

[D]

Now that, you know, I've been on this on the Housewives in Miami. You know, all the producers are inquiring around, you know, when's the wedding? Are we going to film it on tv? Yada, yada, yada. And so that's another thing that we're kind of playing along with is whether or not it'll. It will air.

[C]

What are you leaning towards? I mean, and what is it like being on that show? And, you know, your love is, is so real, but you guys also are so intriguing because of who you are. So what's the balance there?

[D]

You know, I obviously, look, we're very private people, the Jordans. And so if it was up to me, I think we would do maybe multiple weddings, one private, for our family and friends, and then maybe there's one that's a little more public. But, you know, I guess time will tell. I guess time will tell.

[A]

Yeah, I'm noticing Larsa is very diplomatic about this subject as well.

[B]

You know, it's not my story, you guys. I don't, you know, when you were talking about I don't give up names, I kind of don't feel like, yeah, I don't really want, like, if it's my story about me, I'm very transparent, I'm very open. But when it can, when it's someone else, I feel like I try to be sensitive to someone else's feelings, you know? And so I don't like to, like, use people's names unless they're present in the room and can defend themselves in their story, because there's two sides to every story. And I feel like when it comes down to Marcus's family, like, I don't want to talk about that. I'm not the person that should be talking about that or saying how Michael feels. Like I don't want to be a part of that. You know, I feel like, for me, the only person I can talk about is myself. Like, that's. Yeah, I'm really open about, like, how I feel and what I'm doing, but I don't have a problem telling someone to their face. Good for that. I just. When I'm talking about people, I kind of feel like I'm. I'm sensitive to, like, how they would feel if they heard it or whatever. If they're in the same room, then we can talk about whatever. I'm not going to talk about Marcus's family like you talk about them, you know?

[A]

So now I'm going to be incredibly invasive, as invasive as I can possibly be, because I want to know about your potential kids. You two guys. Marcus, I saw this Instagram photo. You just posted the second slide.

[C]

A lot of people are talking.

[A]

An investigative journalist, you were sort of like, palming as your dad would palm a basketball. You two were palming Lara's womb. So what was. What was up with that? I'm always.

[D]

I'm always holding her tight, and so there's nothing there. You know, I did see some comments on IG about that, but now, you know, it's if. If it's in the cards, it's in the cards. But right now, we're just taking it day by day.

[A]

What's the last name gonna be if, in fact, we get to that point? How does that work? You guys must have done the math on this.

[D]

Yeah, that's easy. It's gonna be Jordan. 100% Jordan.

[A]

No hyphen. There's no. There's no Pippin Dash Jordan. No.

[D]

If that happens, obviously the wedding date, she's Jordan. And then any kids would be Jordan's.

[B]

You know, my kids being Pip. And also, I feel like unless I got remarried, I wouldn't change my last name. But if I do, you know, obviously when we do get married, I'm going to change my last name.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I got to say, like, I am struck by the normalcy of you guys amid the abnormality of what this is on paper, like, to me. So. Okay, Larsa, what already are you responding to there?

[B]

Yeah, I know. I get it. It's awkward, it's weird. I get it. But to us, it's not weird. It's probably weird to the world because our last names are known for, you know, basketball history.

[A]

And it's also the context of, like, the history of duos. Right. Like, this is part of why this is so delicious and irresistible, is that Jordan and Pippen is the most famous tandem, maybe, in human history. And so I imagine when it comes to, like, the internal dynamic of your relationship. Right. One question that I have. Charlotte hates this question. She hates that I have this question. But the question is simple in that. In that way, who is the Jordan and who's the Pippin of your relationship?

[C]

I'm sorry, I tried to fight it.

[B]

No, I'm like, well, he's the Jordan.

[D]

And I'm the exact.

[A]

I hadn't anticipated that. That, that, that out. That's a very easy out that you guys took. And I appreciate it.

[C]

It's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Touche.

[C]

You guys are very good at this. I'm very. I'm very impressed.

[B]

You guys don't understand. I feel like for us, like, we work together, we work out together, we, like, we spend so much time together that I think that, like, I think people don't understand that, like, I can finish his sentences and he can finish my sentence literally. So I think it's just like, for us, it's like an easy. What's the word? Like, I don't know. It's just like, I like peanut butter and jelly.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

Another famous duo.

[B]

But I think had it been where Marcus's dad or family said, hey, never see her again, we probably would just continue being friends.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Wow, that's fascinating.

[B]

And I think, you know, I would never want to be with someone who. I don't. I would never want to be in a situation where I'm destroying someone's family or causing major turmoil. That's not my intention. Would never be my intention. You know. So I think had it been like that, you know, I think when people think about your dad, I'm like, if he didn't want us to be together, by the way, we wouldn't be together. No, I mean, we would not be together. Just like, it just wouldn't happen. I would never want to be in a situation like that.

[D]

Yeah. And, you know, my dad is a notorious trash talker. Well, I was going to bring this.

[A]

I was going to bring this up. Marcus, the most Gripping episode of your podcast was of course the no episode, right, where your dad is in Paris and the paparazzi find him and he's asked the question that Larsa was just alluding to. Do you approve of this?

[D]

Do you approve of it?

[A]

No. And then gets in the car.

[D]

Yeah, well, first he laughed and I think that's the most telling of what his mood was is that obviously he took it inscribed and he kind of chuckled and then let out the.

[A]

No.

[D]

And so for people that know, my dad knows he likes to talk a lot. And so I took it in that moment as like, obviously he's kidding, he's joking. Maybe he had a little much, a little bit too much to drink in terms of sinkoro that night. And Larsa was like, absolutely devastated. And she was like, what is this? Because it just, it painted this narrative that like, he obviously wasn't on board when we knew that he was. And so, you know, for me, I, I knew where he was coming from. But it took some explaining for her to kind of understand that, like, look, obviously she knows who he is in terms of his personality, but, you know, he never misses an opportunity to kind of throw a jab or two. That's kind of. Our relationship is like we, we both like to give it to one another and obviously if you dish it out, you have to be able to take it. And so, you know, I think he was being light hearted and joking and, you know, he texted me right away and was like, hey, look, you know, obviously I didn't mean that. You're an adult. You can do, you know, you can do as you please. I'm just here to support you. And he actually even took it a step further to say, like, you don't even need my approval. You're a grown man. So, you know, I just think it was blown out of proportion. Maybe he shouldn't have said it, but it's, it's all good, you know.

[A]

So I just want to summarize what I've found out here today. Yes, Charlotte, with Larsa and Marcus. Because what I'm hearing is the story, the testimony of two friends who are living not inside of a reality television show, but inside of a rom com.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

It's like, what are the odds, what are the odds that these two crazy kids specifically would fall for each other against the wishes, the Romeo and Juliet wishes of, of, of the public? Right.

[D]

I do think though that, you know, a lot of the commotion is really based in the fact that, like, people haven't really seen our dynamic together. And it's one thing to hear it in the podcast, but I think as the Housewives of Miami, you know, starts to air, I think the more that people see us interact together, they'll know that it's, like, genuine and authentic. I think once people read the headlines or, you know, see things in totally media, it's. It's a different. It's a different take, you know?

[A]

So at the end here, guys, what do you want? The Pippin Jordan dynamic that you guys are establishing to signify? We know what it signified with Scotty and Michael. What do you guys want people to think of when they think of you two?

[B]

We're kind of on the greatness path, too, so give us greatness, too. He was greatness.

[A]

Just another ring in the works is what I'm hearing.

[B]

I mean, of course.

[C]

Thank you guys so much. I really. I do feel also you're. You know, it's one thing to listen to the podcast, but talking to you.

[A]

There, I feel bad about some things I said. I'm gonna say that right now.

[D]

Well.

[A]

Well, I mean, I listened to it.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Hold on.

[B]

Tell us what you've said.

[A]

Now. I'm uncomfortable.

[C]

At the end of our. So we taped a conversation before we talked to you guys to set to be like, here's what we took away from the podcast. And here. And I think it was with a very skeptical lens.

[A]

It was about, like, incentives. It's like, look how. How good an idea a business plan this would be to get. It got me hooked. Right? Jordan and Pippin, the reboot.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And. And. And of course, through that, I am a cynical person. And so I think we. We. We did not appreciate the degree to which you two would be so proudly boring as just a couple.

[C]

Not boring, but, like, not trying to be messy. And I said. I was like. I really. I was like, I wish they would have given us, like, if I want.

[A]

Charlotte wanted more mess.

[C]

I wanted more mess.

[B]

I just feel like people tend to judge people that are popping.

[D]

That's how it is.

[A]

Can you. Oh, by the way, last note is that Ryan Cortez, producer behind the glass, is still a skeptic. Guys. He is still shaking his head. I'm like, cortez, you don't believe them? He's shaking his head no. So what do you want to say to him at the very end here?

[D]

Follow and subscribe.

[B]

I feel like, you know, if you.

[D]

Don'T know, I mean, we're not out to prove anything. You know, it's just kind of if. If the question arises, then we'll address it. But, you know, we're out here living our life, so you could tell, you.

[A]

Can tell them the off.

[C]

Yeah, you could say that again.

[B]

So I feel like if he is in a position that's like a liar, thinks everyone's lying, he might be that way. So for us.

[D]

Misery loves company, right?

[B]

So for us, I feel like we're authentic, we're real, we're truthful, we're honest, we're very open. And if you can't see it, then you're blind and it's all good. We, we hope that you get your vision back soon.

[C]

You could say he's a coward.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, he's probably a coward and a pig. I don't know. I don't know what he is.

[A]

Trash talk wise. I feel like you guys are both Jordan. Yes. Fellow podcasters.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Larsa Pippin and Marcus Jordan, thank you for. Thank you for joining. Pablo Torre finds out.

[D]

Thanks for having us.

[B]

Bye, guys.

[A]

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production and I'll talk to you next time.