Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: "Jaw & Order: The Case of the Stolen Dinosaur Bones (and Nicolas Cage)"

Date: April 15, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guest: Martin Bell (former Assistant U.S. Attorney, Southern District of New York)

Episode Overview

In this talkumentary, Pablo Torre dives into the bizarre and fascinating legal saga surrounding the black market dinosaur fossil trade, focusing on a high-profile federal case: United States of America v. One Tyrannosaurus Bataar Skeleton. With the help of his old friend, Martin Bell—a former federal prosecutor who led the investigation—Pablo uncovers how a 24-foot dinosaur skeleton stolen from Mongolia found its way into a Manhattan auction house, why actor Nicolas Cage had to return a $276,000 dinosaur skull, and how these artifacts ultimately became symbols of national pride and international law. The episode is a wild ride through legal loopholes, fossil fanatics, international intrigue, pop culture, and surprising acts of justice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Unlikely Path to Prosecuting a Dinosaur Skeleton

• [00:39] Pablo catches up with Martin Bell, his former schoolmate, who became an Assistant U.S. Attorney in the Southern District of New York, handling major financial and corruption cases.
• Civil forfeiture is explained: the defendant can be property itself (e.g., "United States of America v. One Tyrannosaurus Bataar Skeleton").
  • “It’s when the defendant is literally a piece of property... in this case, the thing that gets forfeited on account of that thing’s alleged involvement in a crime.” — Pablo [03:39]
• The surreal moment: a court order halts the attempted auction of the skeleton in the middle of Manhattan.

2. The International Dinosaur Hiscox

• [06:46] Both Pablo and Martin reminisce about their boyhood dinosaur obsessions—the sense of wonder mirrored in pop culture (“Jurassic Park”).
• [08:06] The auction interruption: A Texas personal injury lawyer (Robert Painter) representing Mongolia bursts in, stopping the auction with a judge’s order.

3. Legal and Scientific Details—Why These Fossils Matter

• Mongolia's laws protecting items of cultural and natural importance mean dinosaur fossils cannot legally be exported.
  • “Mongolia has very, very strict cultural patrimony laws... increasingly, sovereigns have considered natural things... to be protected items of cultural patrimony too.” — Martin Bell [09:47]
• The dinosaur in question, Tyrannosaurus Bataar, is distinct from T. rex—native only to Mongolia’s Gobi Desert (Namet Basin).
  • “There’s only one region that contains the soil composition that allows these particular fossils to be preserved, and that is the Namet Basin.” — Martin [12:36]

4. The Fossil Smuggling Network & Its Characters

• The chief suspect: Eric Prokopi, a Florida-based fossil trader (“Florida Fossils”), well-connected in gray/black-market fossil trades.
  • “Justin Hartley... I could imagine Justin Hartley playing Eric Prokopy. Square jaw.” — Martin [15:17]
• The black market’s oddities: fossil festivals, secret hotel room deals for illicit bones, and a cast of unusual buyers—including celebrities.

5. Investigation Thriller—The Law & Order: Dinosaur Unit

• [17:13] A classic sting moment: agents searching Prokopi’s compound are interrupted by a delivery truck carrying more illegal dinosaur fossils.
  • “A big crate that all but says, careful, treat with care dinosaur fossils inside it... You could do drug or money laundering or stolen property prosecutions forever and never have a moment quite like that.” — Martin [18:47]
• The haul: dozens of fossils recovered—Tyrannosaurs, Ankylosaurus (“the one with the armor on its side... looks like the Barkley Center”), Oviraptors (“Graveyard of the Oviraptors”), eggs, and more.

6. The Legal Resolution—Weighing Justice for Dinocrime

• Prokopi pleads guilty, cooperates to help recover additional fossils, and is sentenced to three months in jail.
  • “There’s no real blueprint for what a dinosaur cooperator gets. The judge struggled mightily with what to do here.” — Martin [23:49]
• Victim identified as Mongolia, where the fossils’ theft was a national issue.
  • “Mongolia is the victim. The Mongolian officials we dealt with… they felt this very, very strongly.” — Martin [24:49]

7. Dinosaur Diplomacy—Repatriation as International Ceremony

• The fossils’ return is marked by elaborate ceremonies with high-level Mongolian officials, music, speeches, and even a Mongolian children’s book about the dinosaur’s homecoming—with a (whitewashed) American prosecutor character.
• “This is the scene at the end of Star Wars. Yes, but with dinosaur bones and Mongolia. Yes, you’re Chewbacca with the medal.” — Pablo [28:25]
• Martin receives the Mongolian Presidential Medal of Friendship.

8. Nicolas Cage & The Celebrity Fossil Connection

• [33:06] The tangent everyone’s been waiting for: Nicolas Cage, the “Face/Off” actor, unknowingly buys a stolen Baatar skull for $200,000—later surrendering it to authorities.
  • “So there comes a point where... we realize that a dinosaur that Nicolas Cage is known to have purchased... traced back to the Prokopi dinosaurs.” — Martin [33:18]
• Martin personally inspects the skull in Cage’s storage unit in LA: "There were some big and neat looking geodes in there. I don't think he had a whole lot stored in there at the time." [34:37]
• Cage’s defense (via GQ 2022 clip):
  • “When the Mongolian government said that they needed it back, I gave it to ‘em. But I never got my money back. So somebody at the auction house should be in jail.” — Nicolas Cage (clip) [40:28]

9. Legacy—Where Are the Bones Now?

• [37:58] Pablo asks: Where are the bones?
• Mongolia has since converted a Soviet-era building in Ulaanbaatar into a dinosaur museum, the home for the returned Baatar skeletons.
  • “It looks like a cool museum... largely based just on the haul that they got from this case.” — Martin [37:58]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the absurdity of the legal case name:
  “United States of America v. One Tyrannosaurus batara skeleton.” — Pablo [04:42]
• On what makes a dinosaur crime unique:
  “You could do drug or money laundering or stolen property prosecutions forever and never have a moment quite like that.” — Martin [18:47]
• On cultural importance:
  “It is bone deep in the Mongolian character.” — Pablo [31:54]
• On representation and being ‘whitewashed’ in a Mongolian children’s book:
  “I am in fact quite black. ...I don't want this story whitewashed. And God forbid Hollywood ever picks up with this. I don't want Matthew Broderick playing prosecutor Bell.” — Martin [30:41]
• Nicolas Cage’s shadow GQ comment:
  “When the Mongolian government said that they needed it back, I gave it to ‘em. But I never got my money back. So somebody at the auction house should be in jail.” — [40:28]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:42] — Case summary: United States v. One Tyrannosaurus Bataar Skeleton
• [08:06] — Auction stopped mid-event
• [12:36] — Scientific basis: tracing fossil origins to Mongolia
• [15:19] — Describing Eric Prokopi and the fossil underworld
• [17:13] — The sting operation and the serendipitous fossil delivery
• [24:49] — Mongolia as the crime’s true victim
• [27:00] — Repatriation ceremony: medals and music
• [33:06] — Nicolas Cage’s fossil saga
• [40:28] — GQ video: Cage’s take on losing his fossil investment
• [37:58] — The creation of the Mongolian dinosaur museum

Conclusion & Final Reflections

This episode highlights the collision of legal ingenuity, international law, paleontology, and celebrity culture—showing a bizarre, almost cinematic sequence of events with real diplomatic and cultural consequences. From stopping the illicit auction, tracing criminal logistics, and untangling the fossil trade’s gray market, to arranging ceremonial homecomings for ancient bones and enlisting the unwitting participation of Hollywood stars, the story is unlike any typical legal drama. Martin Bell’s personal journey—from school newspaper to prosecution, to standing in Ulaanbaatar as a national hero—makes for a satisfying narrative arc.

Pablo leaves listeners with a winking hope that Hollywood will indeed make a movie out of this “Jaw & Order” adventure, with the right casting for a real-life hero who preferred dinosaurs to billable hours.

For more:

• The Dinosaur Artist by Paige Williams (in-depth book on the case)
• Watch video for the GQ Nicolas Cage segment referenced
• See repatriated fossils at the Ulaanbaatar Dinosaur Museum if you’re ever in Mongolia