← Pablo Torre Finds Out
Pablo Torre Finds Out
Linsanity Is Dead. Long Live Linsanity: Jeremy Lin on the Finals, the Garden and the Healing Power of These Knicks
00:48:05
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre and today we're going to find out what this sound is.
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B
I would have played for significantly less if that meant staying with the with the Knicks. Like significantly less because my heart was
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A
always here right after this ad.
- [00:20]
B
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- [00:50]
C
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- [01:23]
A
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B
Shoot.
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A
Caffeinated.
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B
I am hurting right now. Journalism and all that, man.
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A
What time did you get to bed last night?
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B
Dude, I didn't sleep last night till like 2:30.
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A
You're in the ESPN machine now, man. Yeah. No, it's so funny to have you in studio.
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B
I'm very happy to be here, dude.
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A
I saw you. I mean, I first met you when you were a senior.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And you were. You were trying to set up your Xbox.
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B
I was nice. At Halo 3.
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A
I was going to say the Halo. The Halo resume was a lot stronger, it seems, than. Than your draft stock.
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B
Yeah, no, there weren't too many weaknesses in my Halo 3 game in my draft stock. That wasn't too hot. No, no.
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A
What was. What was it like to be there in person last night? We're talking on Tuesday morning. Last night was game three. What. What did it feel like?
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B
It was. So I'm. I'm there hours before and I'm there like an hour before they even let fans in. And so as they start to let fans in and they're trickling into their seat, you know, an hour and a half, two hours before the game, I'm doing some media on the. On the skybridge, I think it's called. And I'm walking and the people in the nosebleeds are seeing me. And you know, there's, you know, 25% filled because they just opened the doors and they're going crazy. And I'm like, this is insane. And then they give me that. That, you know, the introduction, I didn't know, but apparently it was close to a standing O or a standing O. You know, I'm instructed to look into the camera, wave and just stare into the camera and smile. So I'm not looking. I can't see the greater arena and I don't know what's actually happening. I can't see it on the Jumbotron or anything. I can only hear kind of, oh, there's some highlights and staring into the camera and I'm just focused like this. It wasn't until after when some. When Scott van Pel told me, he was like, yeah, they gave you a standing O. And I was like, really? I did not know that. But obviously just completely, completely blown away.
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A
There was a lot happening last night. The thing that I kept on hearing from fans, from friends, and of course I have a particular vantage point on this, but they kept on saying, we are most excited to see Jeremy Lin back in this building. The whole thing about this Knicks Team that I'm forced back into contemplating is you because the Garden hasn't sounded like this since you were playing in it. The exclusive interview with the man at the center of the biggest story in sports.
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B
His name is Jeremy Lin.
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A
He's the seemingly out of nowhere overnight
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B
star of the New York Knicks. The man who launched a thousand bad
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A
puns like Lynn's sanity and Lindarella's story. Lind with the ball in his hands.
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B
Fans on their fe.
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A
Four win for the win. Got it.
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B
Jeffrey's another rebound. Lynn for three.
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A
Bang.
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B
The Jeremy Lynn show continues here at Madison Square Garden. I've heard that reference a lot yesterday. I think the last time it was like, this was when insanity was happening. And I was like, really? They've had some playoff runs recently and, and whatnot, you know, but I, I, I haven't been back, so I don't know. But it was, it was genuinely overwhelming. You know, even when we were filming for, you know, the initial show, the pregame show, I'm seeing my shirts, my jersey.
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A
Oh, the city people are. It's like it's 2012.
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B
I appreciate it. And even at the game yesterday, you know, like, you see majority is Brunson, but there's a little bit of, of my stuff sprinkled in there.
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A
And so you see the number 17,
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B
I'm just like, wow, like New York, they really, they really got my back.
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A
Well, look, the whole, the whole thing of what the potential of the Garden is and how this team obviously making a finals run is, is meeting that possibility. It was, it was proven by you. Just the idea of, like, this could be the greatest building in sports in my lifetime. That's, that's the thing that I felt. And again, I've been, I've been covering you for way too long. But, but that was the premise. And so watching this team for you, I mean, it's gotta be weird. Kind of just surreal on a bunch of levels.
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B
It's so nice to see what's happening for multiple reasons. One, there's always so much appreciation, but there's always going to be a part of me that was like, I wish everything turned out differently in terms of the ending with my Knicks. I didn't see that time ending so fast. I was expecting and hoping and praying to be back for more seasons, to give more performances, to be able to help take us further. And so to me, there's always a little bit of like, knicks fans deserve more, and I wasn't able to do that for them. And I just hope that anybody will be able to give them what they want, which is to win, win big, and to turn the city upside down. So for me, I'm seeing this, and I remember yesterday, I was just like, this is overwhelming. The production of everything, the energy of everything. And then I saw, you know, a journalist who has been covering me for almost the same amount of time that you have been covering me. And she says to me, she's, she says, I want you to soak this in because you are now in the spectator seat. And that's what it was like when you were doing everything. And I was like, that hit me really hard because I was like, this is overwhelming seeing just how much is happening for this team and how, like, ablaze this city is.
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A
What have you been learning as you watch this team? But also think about what watching you must have felt like, because I was there. I was at the Garden when you dropped 38 on Kobe and the Lakers. I was covering you for Sports Illustrated throughout that whole run. What are you realizing about what that must have been like 14 years ago?
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B
It's just, it's the feeling of, I can't wait to, like, jump out of my seat. And, and yesterday there's multiple times I cannot see, I cannot see the floor unless I'm standing. And even when it's like, you shouldn't be standing, they're still standing, you know, and it's like they just can't wait for anything good or semi good to happen. So they could just jump out their seats and just cheer and go crazy. And that's just like, that's the pent up, like, yearning for Nick's success, which is decades long. And, and it's, it's highs and lows, but really it's, it's a lot of lows. It's, it's primarily lows through the last, you know, 20 years and the last 53 years when they won it, 27 years since they've been in the finals. But it's just the, the pain and the, if you look at the, the arc of the organization, it's, it's the, the gut wrenching pain that makes this that much more exciting. And, and don't, don't even get me started on what the Knicks mean to the city, what the Knicks mean to the world, the brand recognition, it is a cultural institution. And so it's literally, it feels like when you're walking around the city, it's almost like I'm scared to even have colors that look like I'm rooting for the spurs. And I'M like, wearing a suit, you know, so I'm like, black and white. And people are like, are you rooting for the Spurs? I'm like, I'm wearing a black and white suit. Okay. Like, it's just a black and white suit. They're like, you can't root for the Spurs. I'm like, don't worry, I'm not rooting for the Spurs. There's that, like, level of. You must rock with the Knicks. This is a Knicks city.
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A
Yeah. Watching, like, Karl Anthony Towns, watching Jalen Brunson, watching these guys, Mikhail Bridges, watching them get to feel like they're levitating. I mean, the thing about the Garden, the thing that people need to appreciate on some level. Yes. I'm born and raised in New York. I think that the sensation of New York City when this is happening is unparalleled in culture and entertainment. It's just unparalleled. But the perspective of being at the center of it and feeling like you are riding this high.
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B
Yeah.
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A
At the time you felt what.
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B
I know they're going crazy, but it's almost like you can't process it. All right? Like, you. You can't allow. You can't allow space to process it. You can't allow space to enjoy it. Because the minute that you do that, you start to lose your edge. And I think that's what we're seeing with the Knicks. Are they able to really process what's happening?
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A
That's why I ask.
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B
They know. Because the minute that you do. And that's. That's the. That's the beauty of professional sports is it is literally the, you know, 0.1% that make a difference. And so, you know, you see Brunson, who looks pissed off when they win and has been pissed off this entire series.
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A
You see Josh Hart is.
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B
They're just angry after. They're angry and they're locked in, and they refuse to take in what is happening. And that's the only way to. Because the spotlight is so big. That's the only way to stay focused.
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A
But also because. And this is where it sort of, like, speaks to your experience also, because there's an understanding that all of this is fragile.
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B
Yes.
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A
That this is fleeting. Like, someone out there is going to be asking themselves, is this for real?
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B
Yeah. Yeah.
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A
Is this guy someone I can trust, or is this going to evaporate and we're going to all think that. Man, was that. What a weird dream.
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B
Yeah.
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A
We had.
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B
Because. Because I think, again, this goes to understand the context and the History of the Knicks where it's like, I want to put all my hopes and dreams on you. But then there's that always, like, that cautious optimism of, like, what's going to happen. Like, I'm expecting the other. I'm waiting for other, you know, for the other shoe to drop, like, kind of having that feel, too. I'm just going to enjoy it while it's here. You know, there's just so many emotions that are coming out. It's intense, and it's. And it's understandable.
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A
You know, I need to remind people that you used to be a terrible quote. Thank you.
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B
I appreciate that. I love the honesty, and you're so right.
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A
I. I remember, like, covering you at Harvard was one thing, and I was like, okay, he's a college senior. Whatever. Like, I'll give grace. But when you were going through this thing, you know, it was. It was. It was palpably uncomfortable.
- [14:51]
B
I probably just started to realize that maybe five days into it, every site I'm going to, it's like, oh, Lynn this, Lynn that. And it was just a little. A little overwhelming, you know, and obviously, we've known each other for, you know, over a decade now. So you. You know my personality. And when I was a senior in college, through the first two, three years of my career, if you put me in an interview, I would tense up. I would be, like, starting to sweat and have, like. You know, I have that right. Like, when I used to walk into a restaurant and people started to recognize me, like, oh, that's Jeremy Lin. I would immediately, like, tense up and, like, have goosebumps or, like, duck my head. It makes me nervous. I don't crave the spotlight. It makes me uncomfortable. But at the same time, I am built for the spotlight in the sense of I'm built to perform under the brightest lights, and I am built to rise to the occasion of whatever it is. And that's been true in my basketball career from a young age. But personality wise, it's tough, man. And so, yeah, I apologize for all the bad quotes and the horrible answers, the short answers, the I don't know why he's talking to me about this. I don't know how to answer it, or whatever. All that. And then you're going back trying to figure out, how am I going to craft this? This answer was so damn bad.
- [16:16]
A
Look, I was pretty annoying myself because I was the guy who was just, like, relentlessly badgering what color was your brother's couch that you were sleeping on? What neighborhood was it Will you write this book with me? And it's just like, okay. It was. We were all. We were all. We were all very young back then. But. But the thing of what you were like, I mean, in those interviews, I could hear you thinking. Which was the opposite from you on the floor.
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B
Yes.
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A
And I want to explain to people like you growing up, Right. From Palo Alto, you've told me stories about growing up and of course, Asian American parents. I got to know your parents when I was interviewing them.
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B
Yeah.
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A
When you were in college. And the level of both trust and belief that they had that, like, yo, this our son might be a basketball player. Could you explain for people who don't know, like your mom, for instance, just what she invested into that possibility, which is opposite from what any caricature of an Asian American parent?
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B
Yeah. My mom grew up and she loved dance, but she couldn't pursue it. My dad grew up, loved sports, but couldn't pursue it because their parents, my grandparents, wouldn't allow them to do that. So when they got married and had kids, the one thing they decided was, if our kids have a passion towards something, we won't restrict them from going down that route. And so they've funneled so many resources into, you know, competitive basketball is expensive, and we're an immigrant family, so we don't have that money. Right. And so they're literally interventions with our grandparents and like my grandmother and then also their friends, and they're like, you're spending and wasting too much money on your kids playing basketball. Like, that's not. That's not okay. You shouldn't be doing that.
- [18:05]
A
That's a bad investment.
- [18:07]
B
That's a bad investment. Like, you're. You're messing up your future. And it's funny because once I made it to Harvard, then these same parents came back and was like, wait, wait, so what other sports can my kids play? Fencing or what? You know, but even in Harvard, it wasn't like, you're going to graduate and play professional basketball. They're like, you got a Harvard degree, you're going to graduate and you're going to use your economics degree and go do what people with economics degrees go do. We were financially in such a tough position. And when it really came down to it, when I was preparing for the NBA draft, my mom emptied out her entire 401k so that I could eat until I was full so I could prepare for the NBA draft. And at that time, we had. We were very far in debt. We had already borrowed from the bank. We had Borrowed from the house. We had borrowed from Harvard. We. No one would let us borrow anymore. And then we had to borrow from family. And so my mom is and dad are like, they're in a very tough position. And then my mom just has a little bit left in her 401k and gives it all to me and says, you got two years. And if you don't make this work in two years, you gotta go use that Harvard degree. And so the point of all of
- [19:19]
A
this is you weren't eating till you were full.
- [19:22]
B
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I was just trying to save money. So I was just eating Subway every day because they had five dollar footlong and I was just eating like, I was just eating until I was like 75% full. Because I was like, man, if I keep eating and eating, that's another 5. 25. It was $5.25 including tax. And I remember it to this day. Because you're an economic major. Yeah, I'm an econ major. And I'm eating this every day because I don't have a choice. But when it really comes down to it. When it really comes down to putting one of your money where your mouth is, my parents did that. And I don't think a lot of people will.
- [19:53]
A
No, I mean, this is the. This is like the hidden context for when you're making the NBA and you're in the. In the. Was then called the D League and you have this opportunity to finally get off the bench. This is the stuff that is fueling the level of desperation.
- [20:14]
B
Absolutely. And God's timing is so crazy because I finally signed with the warriors on a partial guarantee, rookie minimum. And I kid you not, within four weeks, both my parents were laid off. Because this is when, you know, they're engineers. They're engineers in the Silicon Valley. That's when tech and apps and everything was booming. And so they started going with a lot of younger engineers and the whole industry shifted. And my parents, who have been computer engineers their whole life, they got laid off within two weeks of each other. This is within four weeks of me signing with Golden State. And they could never find. And they were looking. They couldn't find a job after that. And they had. They were consistently looking and nobody would hire. I'm just like, God, how would we have made it through that stretch if. If I didn't make it in. If I didn't make it in NBA, like, what would happen?
- [21:07]
A
It's the thing that takes you from the warriors to the Rockets again. Part of the legend is you get cut on Christmas Eve by the Houston Rockets and our good friend Daryl Morey.
- [21:21]
B
Yep, yep.
- [21:24]
A
And you land. You land eventually here in New York. And just the highlight reel, the montage, the stuff that made me laugh the most, that was also, I'm sure, terrifying. I remember headlines, Kim Kardashian wants to meet Jeremy Lynn.
- [21:40]
D
What's the weirdest paparazzi moment you've had?
- [21:42]
B
Stuff about me dating, you know, Kim Kardashian. I mean, I have no idea where that came from. And all these other rumors.
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A
You don't think you're the Kim Kardashian type?
- [21:51]
B
No, I think. I don't think I'm. That's that type.
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A
I still don't know the origin of that.
- [21:58]
B
So this is what I've heard, and I don't know if it's true or not, but this is what I've heard. That request did come in to the Knicks, and that is a real request. I think basically she, at that time was filming her show, which is. I don't know if it's like Keeping up with the Kardashians or whatever show was happening back then, but I know that she was looking for kind of like a New York athlete and so to kind of be on this show, essentially. And this is all like, again, is this true or is this not? I don't know. This is what was told to me afterwards because the request came into the Knicks, they immediately declined it without even asking us because they're like, this is not. This is not, you know, we're not allowing our young second year player to go down this route right now.
- [22:43]
A
They wouldn't let me interview you. That was how protective the Knicks were of you at the time.
- [22:50]
B
Yeah, I mean, I didn't even know that.
- [22:51]
A
What was the sort of most memorable or scary part if you're just to look back and be like, oh, yeah, that. That was part of my existence in the city.
- [23:04]
B
So I'm living on the couch.
- [23:08]
A
Your brother's Josh's guy.
- [23:11]
B
And then all of a sudden it's like, we have like 10, 15 offers from the nicest properties in Manhattan. Come stay at our penthouse suite for free, blah, blah, blah. Come stay here for free, everything for free. I'm like, oh, so I move into the Residences at the W. And they took care of me. I didn't have to pay for anything. And I was just like, oh, I'm glad I'm not on the couch. Is everything's furnished. It was great. And I remember because the paparazzi and the fans and everything was so crazy. I couldn't really leave unless it was like, like midnight or something and sneak out. You go out the back entrance. But there's a stretch where I couldn't leave without being followed. And I remember I was always. I was on, like, I don't know, the 35th floor or something. And I was. Oh, I would always look out the window and just see, like, which cars are down there by the. By the lobby. Can I leave right now or will I be followed?
- [24:10]
A
But it reminds me that as much as you were, like, the most popular person in New York City, you couldn't actually explore the city at all. Like, I remember learning that you hadn't. You didn't even, like, know what Times Square was like. You were. You were sort of, like, going from place to place, sequestered secretly. And so the thing that you're getting to do now, 14 years later is actually, like, be in, actually community with, like, people.
- [24:39]
B
Yeah, no, Yeah. I get to walk down the street and say, what's up? To the fans and whatever. And one of my vivid memories, and it's extremely vivid, because when I come back to the city, I think about it every time I come back to the city was during that stretch. This was after the season had ended. I had torn my meniscus and I was trying to rehab. And I remember, like, me and my brothers and my family, we went and walked to an outdoor park very late at night, and we were, like, shooting around and playing horse. And that was one of my most vivid memories from that year of. Because I finally felt safe outdoors with my family. And it felt like I was a kid again, and it was in Battery Park. And that was one of the things I remember the most because I just wanted to feel normal again.
- [25:33]
A
Hello, it's me, Pablo. We have been very interested in what you guys actually like about this show. And so in the show notes, there is a survey. You'll find it magically as a link somewhere down there, and you can tell us what you want, more of what you want, less of what annoys you about me and potentially all of my friends. We will use this to improve the show. Takes, like 30 seconds. So please fill it out and we will make this better. Allegedly. You know how summer kind of forces you to simplify your wardrobe. Like, I've noticed that once it gets hot out, I stop caring about complicated outfits. And I just want clothes that are comfortable, breathable, and still look good if I am running around all day. And that is exactly why I've been wearing a lot more quints lately. Their linen stuff, for instance, has become a real go to for me, especially the European linen shirts they have. They're lightweight, they breathe really well. Somehow they still make you look like you put effort into getting dressed. And the crazy part is that their linen pants and shirts start at just 34 bucks. Plus their tees are ridiculously soft and their lightweight cotton sweaters are perfect for when it cools off at night. It's just stuff that's easy to wear, but it is also a great price point. Quince keeps prices 50 to 80% lower than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for the quality itself, not a giant markup. And once you get on the site, you realize they do way more than clothes. They do premium bedding, ceramic cookware, and even custom upholstered sofas. It's one of those brands that you end up recommending to everyone for pretty much everything. So this year, elevate your summer wardrobe by going to quint.comPablo for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada as well. That's qui nce.comPablo for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comPablo
- [27:36]
C
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- [28:41]
A
The idea that you were trying to find something like yourself through this whole process. Yeah, it reminds me of finding out. I remember talking on the phone with you and your and your reps about the Knicks not matching the contract because back comes our friend Daryl Mory and he has this big offer from the Rockets and the Knicks had Told you, go test the market.
- [29:05]
B
Yeah.
- [29:06]
A
And you did. And you got an offer and you're a restricted free agent. And the Knicks said, congratulations on your new contract, but we're not matching this.
- [29:14]
B
Yeah.
- [29:14]
A
I just remember thinking like, that's how this book ends.
- [29:19]
B
It's due time, I guess, to kind of close, fully close the book. Because I've always. The one thing I've always kind of maintained is what I'm most proud. One of the things I'm most proud of through my career is what I haven't said. It's not what I've said or what I've done. It's. It's what I haven't said and the timing of what I have or have not said. And it's been hard because obviously I'm human and I'm okay if you tell me I suck. I'm okay if you tell me I can't shoot it well, or I wasn't a good defender when I was younger, or I couldn't go left when I was younger. Like, you talk basketball and you criticize me. It doesn't bother me. That's okay. It's when you attack my character, that's what you know, has historically been like, man. Like it brings a different level of emotion. And so I think, you know, this trip coming back, shout out to the current Knicks because what it has done is their success has been healing for many, many people, for many fans, for many people. It has brought people together and it has also healed many things from the Linsanity stretch. Because I'm having conversations, I'm in spaces that I haven't been in before. And we're all doing this because the current Knicks are doing so well. Very recent news, but you know, I, I was able to have a good conversation with Carmelo Anthony because of the current Knicks stretch. And so we talked a lot about things that happened and we were able to have a very good, clear the air discussion privately. And so I think now it's appropriate to, you know, share these things. And I was crushed when the Knicks. It wasn't just when the Knicks didn't match. And I still remember that very vividly because in my mind I'm like, everything leading up to it is a three day period, but everything even before the three day period, I was like, there's no way they match. There's no way they match. And that three day period felt like three months. Pablo is like the longest three days of my life. And my agent is just telling me like, be prepared that they won't match. And I'm like, there's no way. There's no way. I gotta go back to New York. But, you know, I wasn't able to. When everything started, it was. Yeah, it was. There was no contract. They could have offered me three years, 9 million, but there wasn't even that offer on the table. And when the Rockets offer came in, the first question I asked my agent is, are the Knicks going to match this? He's like, I don't know. And I was like, can you go back to the Rockets and tell them we won't accept this offer? We only want a lower offer. I tried to take less. I was like. I was trying to sabotage the Rockets offer.
- [32:01]
A
Good. Good. Econ major.
- [32:03]
B
Yeah. I was like, I don't like this poison pill. Like, bring it down.
- [32:07]
A
It was designed. The contract was designed to be hard to match.
- [32:11]
E
Exactly.
- [32:12]
A
Because that's what the Rockets strategy was.
- [32:14]
B
Yeah. And I remember it. I remember it vividly as I was. I finished this. This lift, an hour and a half lift, and I. And I run out outside. I call my agent back, and I'm like, okay, the offer came through. Like, no, we have to. We have to get a less lucrative offer because I gotta go back to New York. And then finally, I'm like, can we just not accept their offer? And he's like, no, we can't not accept their offer because the Knicks refused to give us any offer. You have zero offers on the table. You have one option right now. There is no. There is no alternative. You have one offer, and you have to accept it and leave it to the Knicks to match or not. And that's how badly I wanted to go back. And so obviously, for me, it was kind of difficult just to see, like, that people thought I willingly left the Knicks, or I want did it for the money or whatever. And I'm just like, man, like,
- [33:09]
A
I
- [33:09]
B
would have played for significantly less if that meant staying with the. With the Knicks, like, significantly less. Because my heart was always here.
- [33:18]
A
I didn't think I would see it happen, honestly. And the things you've been navigating that you're too diplomatic to say, it's like people accusing you of, like, ah, he's greedy. He just wanted the money. He was. Thought he was bigger than he was. I mean, that's. If you don't understand the backstory of your life can be insanely, of course, corrupting in terms of, like, what people think of you. And that's. And that, look, it takes us to what your career took you to which was Houston and then the Lakers and then Charlotte and Brooklyn and Atlanta, then Toronto. And watching you from afar, it was watching someone try to find himself.
- [34:01]
B
Yeah.
- [34:01]
A
And I don't just mean, like, the different hairstyles, but I also kind of mean the different hairstyles. Just the idea of, like, who am I? What am I in public? How do I figure that out as all of the. The context for people maybe only knowing me for one thing, but not necessarily knowing what to make of me otherwise. Like, that's. I was uncomfortable watching you be uncomfortable.
- [34:25]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's. It's palpable. You know, like you. Other journalists, other people, when they look back, they were just like, you were scared, you were overwhelmed, you were guarded. You didn't know what's happening. You were trying to find yourself. And that's all true.
- [34:39]
A
Right.
- [34:39]
B
Like, the different hairstyles, what was that? That was me learning to be okay being criticized and laughed at. I was criticized and laughed at a lot, especially when I didn't go back to New York. And. And then the. The performances of Lincinny and averaging those stats started to dwindle. But I was. It hurt and it ate me up. But me trying different hairstyles was not because I thought they looked cool, they were horrible, they looked ugly, but it was just, be okay being made fun of. Be okay being criticized and be comfortable in your own skin. And it was so hard to find myself because the world didn't even know what to do with me. And so there's this huge evolution of how do I handle everything that came to be. And Linsani itself was. The moment was so big. And it's like, that's not. That's not normal stuff, man. That kills. And that's why the Manzels and the Biebers and. And people who get that level of fame that quick or overnight or that young, like, my heart goes out to all of them. Because you will end up jaded and bitter or. And you will have to go through kind of the cycles of, you know, you're naive, and then you're on cloud nine. And then you start to, like, question things because people are changing and people you trusted or. And things. And you're starting to realize the reality of. Of the world and how people operate. And then you go into this, like, jaded, bitter, angry phase, and then you start to lash out. And then after you do enough of lashing out and jadedness, then you start to have small moments of hope and gratitude, and eventually you evolve to get to a Place where you can embrace and be grateful for all of it. And these are the stages of, you know, processing and all of that that I was going through.
- [36:35]
A
I remember visiting you when you were with the Lakers. And this is Kobe. This is the soft, like, Charman era. This is you not wanting to even say the term linsanity. Yeah, it was like I. I distinctly remember you like, holding the term linsanity. Like, you know, someone would hold a diaper just like away from you and it's like, that's not. No, I don't call it. You kept on calling it when New York happened.
- [37:19]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't even say the word.
- [37:21]
A
Why not?
- [37:24]
B
I think it was just a shadow that I couldn't outrun. And I think how I used to see it was, look, I'm competitive, I'm ambitious. So if you're talking about what happened in 2012, that means I haven't done my job as a player. Because in 2013, I should be surpassing what I did in 2012. In 2015, I should be surpassing what I did in 2013. There should be new memories. There should be new stories, new chapters and a new legacy. And the truth is, you cannot top linsanity. Like, I was the number one most searched person on Google. I was the most popular person on the planet. How do you top that? You cannot top that. And so for me, even if I went on, I was, let's say I was a starter and all star and I won a championship on another team. It does not top linsanity. No, it's not New York City. It's not the story of what it was. It didn't come out of left field. I'm not sleeping on a couch.
- [38:24]
A
The city would not feel, I mean, no city could feel like what Lynn Sanders did.
- [38:28]
B
It's impossible to top. And because of that, that crushed me because it was like, well, the trajectory arc of any young player is you get better and better and keep going higher and higher. And so, yeah, I held it out like a stinky diaper and it was a shadow. And eventually I realized this is one of the coolest things in the world. This was a life changing movement for myself and for millions of others.
- [38:53]
A
That's the thing, is that as you were trying to prove that you were more than this peak all time cultural moment, the people for whom this was a peak all time cultural moment never stopped thinking that you were the guy.
- [39:08]
B
Yeah.
- [39:09]
A
And making peace with that, that you had different. The different demographics were responding to you in different ways. Right. Carmelo Anthony Kobe Bryant, the NBA. They're like, who is this? Who is this guy who thinks he's bigger than we are?
- [39:24]
B
Yeah.
- [39:25]
A
And then there were the people who were like, thank God that this guy is representing us.
- [39:31]
B
Yeah.
- [39:31]
A
At the highest levels.
- [39:32]
B
Yeah. And it's all of those combined. Right. And making peace with every element of it. Lindsay Andy essentially was a crash course, an accelerated course on these important lessons that I need to learn on life. And so when I was able to see it that way, I was actually grateful that I was able to learn that much in a short amount of time. Granted, there was a lot of pain and a lot of heartbreak, but I would learned a lot in a short amount of time, and it very much shaped who I am today. And so I do feel like, man, Linsandy really grew me up and I became different. And why am I now able to kind of speak out and carry the mantle not as a weight, but to carry it as a source of pride, to embrace being Asian American, to be able to speak up and. And do these things and to be able to say, yes, I was that player that started linsanity, and to say that proudly and to say it changed lives, it inspired millions. That is all part of my evolution of being able to embrace it and see the positive. Because there's just so much more positive than. Than negative.
- [40:42]
A
This episode of Pablo Torre Finds out is brought to you by the FIFA World cup meal at McDonald's. Right now, you can get one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World cup meal. Look what goes better with watching the world's biggest sporting event than a McDonald's meal. Every time you order the FIFA World cup meal at McDonald's during the summer's World cup, you have the chance to take home a cup featuring some of the biggest legends in world football like David Beckham, Thierry Henry, and Ronaldinho. But it isn't only past players. You can also get current stars like Christian Pulisic, Lamine Yamal, Son Heung Min, Santiago Jimenez and Alfonso Davies. So this is me, Pablo Torre, challenging all of you listeners to see if any of you can collect all nine. And so the next time you're hungry, you know where to go. Right now, get one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World cup meal only at McDonald's at participating McDonald's only for a limited time while supplies last. All rights reserved. Copyright 2026. McDonald's at the FIFA World Cup 2026 if you've ever tried to keep up with the world of wellness and performance, you know that it moves really fast. New products, new ingredients and new claims all competing for your attention. And that's why the Drop by GNC exists. It's where new happens first and where GNC cuts through the noise to find out what actually works. No guesswork, no endless scrolling, just a curated selection of the best from the latest launches and trends and innovations in wellness and performance, all handpicked by GNC's experts. And here's the advantage. You're getting a sneak peek at what's coming next, the newest formulas, the latest flavors, and the up and coming brands before they hit the mainstream. From trending ingredients to breakthrough formulas, the Drop by GNC keeps you informed and focused and on top of your goals. And with new drops launching regularly, there's always something fresh to discover. So if you're ready to stop chasing trends and start staying ahead of them, check out the Drop by GNC today gnc.com TheDrop is the destination to discover something new to try today. And get the facts you can trust on what's new and trending. And make sure to plan what's next by browsing the Coming soon calendar of drops. That's gnc.com the drop Men's Wearhouse helps you love the way you look no matter if it's a formal occasion or a more casual thing. Job interview, tee time, high school reunion, wedding, Courtside seats are just a neighborhood party where you want people to say, man, that dude looks impressive. So if you're a man with literally anything on the books, Men's Warehouse has everything you need, from formal to casual, dressed up to dress down. And the best part is they pride themselves on impeccable service from the moment you walk in the door. With in store experts well versed in finding you the right look for any occasion and on site tailors to make sure the fit is perfect for your body. Men's Wearhouse really has it all. Suits, tuxes, sport coats, jeans, shorts, chinos, T shirts, polos, loafers, sneakers, sandals. All of it. Get ready to look and feel good from head to toe by visiting Men's Wearhouse today and with over 600 locations nationwide, they are nearby. When you're ready to love the way you look. Men's Warehouse Love the way you look. The thing that I don't know if you were ever able to appreciate was that you felt to so many people, me included, like the picture of confidence during that run. Yeah, it was unapologetic. You were waving people off in Toronto on Valentine's Day. You were pulling up from Three, you were spin moving in the lane against Kobe and the Lakers. It was watching someone be in bloom and to know that that was who you are on the court and off the court, you were managing essentially like a version of sports puberty in front of everybody.
- [44:28]
B
Yeah.
- [44:28]
A
Is this paradox that explains why this story is still. It still feels unsettled, or at least it felt unsettled until this Knicks Finals run.
- [44:39]
B
Yeah.
- [44:40]
A
Because one of the people who was actually, it turns out, going through something like puberty at the time himself, who was an enormous fan of you, was Carl Anthony Towns.
- [44:51]
B
I want to give a shout out
- [44:52]
E
to Jeremy Lynn because he really made me an expand and had me at models. I mean, I have so much love. Jeremy Lynn is one of my favorite Knicks of all time. One of my favorite players of all time. He made me so passionate about the Knicks. And it's crazy now that I'm in this position, I'm in this chair talking to you as a Knicks player. And Derek showed me the other day of Jerry on the social and my
- [45:15]
B
outfit was going to be a Karl Anthony Towns jersey. I'm a big supporter of that, but I definitely need to get his jersey.
- [45:21]
E
For him to even mention me was
- [45:24]
B
kind of crazy because the love I have for him and what he's done
- [45:28]
E
for me and my Knicks fandom was second.
- [45:31]
B
It's honestly incredible because when out of the blue he showed up like two years ago wearing like a Linsanity shirt. And so I'm getting text messages and screenshots and I'm like, that is so random. Like, he's not. He's not part Asian, you know, I was shocked.
- [45:52]
A
I was shocked that we were in community with Carl Anthony Downs. Yo. I didn't know he was one of us.
- [45:57]
B
I didn't believe it. Right? Like, the initial part was like, ah, I don't know. Like, he's not. Like, he couldn't really be a fan, you know, And. And then I was like, but I think he is. He's rocking my shirt. So then we had a little bit of an exchange on social and whatever. A couple years go by, and then I'm like, I gotta show some love back. And so I'm. I get his jersey and then this clip comes out and I'm like, when I'm listening to him talk, I'm really. I'm. I'm really like, no, I made a difference in his life. And that's. That's like. It kind of like, it's shocking for me. I'm like, I almost can't believe it.
- [46:33]
A
Well, we had to go and find his tweets. We had to dig them up because we have, like, the first one here is from February 23, 2012, and he says having no school is awesome. Get to watch Jeremy Lynn highlights over and over again. Then March 31, 2012. Can't believe Jeremy Lynn is hurt. Hashtag all caps, Nick, season over. And then July 5, 2012, no. All caps, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point. Jeremy Lynn is leaving my Knicks. Exclamation point, exclamation point, hashtag sad day for the Knicks. Hashtag need him as a Knickerbocker. Those three tweets, insanity. Your injury, the Rockets thing we just described, he was going through that in real time.
- [47:17]
B
Yeah.
- [47:18]
A
And when I think of Towns and I think of your story, what you just traced the arc of this relationship you had with your parents and particularly your mom, and this search for identity and frankly, trying to prove your toughness. That's the story of Carl Towns, too.
- [47:39]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [47:41]
A
Someone who lost his mom during COVID Someone who. His. His. His voice. People made fun of it. This guy's trying to pretend like he's Kobe, like he's. Like he's tougher than he is.
- [47:51]
B
Yeah.
- [47:52]
A
And I was thinking to myself, that is. Whether you realize it or not, that is also your trajectory in your journey.
- [48:01]
B
The thing is, like, what is toughness? What is strength? What is manliness? Like, toughness is just different than what society he really describes as toughness. And to me, it's like, Carl Anthony Towns is soft. Carl Anthony Towns doesn't play defense. You can't win with Carl Anthony Towns. The guy is rewriting his narrative every year. It's just. Are you paying attention? Right. Like, this is not the first time that Cat has risen to the occasion. He's done that in the past against the best players.
- [48:41]
A
Right.
- [48:41]
B
And his series against Jokic, there's been multiple bigs where when it comes time to it, he rises to the occasion. And he's doing that with Wemby right now. But it's also him anchoring the defense. It's also him in the locker room or him on the. In the timeouts. And him and the sound bites that you are now getting to hear because he's mic'd up because he's in the NBA Finals.
- [49:03]
E
Until the offense catches up, we gotta keep playing defense. This way, we're at 34% of us. We gotta keep playing defense, defense. This way, this will win us the game. Our offense Will always catch up. It didn't game one in Cleveland.
- [49:13]
A
We'll be fine.
- [49:15]
B
His ability to be able to do these things is very different than the super loud rah, rah, I'm in your face and the clickbait or social things where it's like, you know, I'm getting in fights and what. It's different, right? So he has this inner strength and this inner toughness and this quiet confidence. But that doesn't make him less confident than the person that's like, that's more expressive about it. You know, that's what takes time to be able to see. Kat is extremely strong. Kat is extremely tough, and Kat rises to the occasion. And he has been doing that, and that's why he's so successful. And now he's getting the credit that he deserves.
- [49:55]
A
Well, it reminds me this larger point about, like, there is toughness as defined by what someone overcame in their personal life, in privacy that no one else from the outside ever knew or appreciated because it is personal to them. Whether it's the death of your mother, as Carl Towns experienced, whether it's you overcoming the specific beats of your story that we've just outlined. I have a soft spot, I think, for people who others thought they could bully, they could push around, who not only end up being great on the court, but also emerge on the other side of it super introspective and even more confident in what it means to be vulnerable. Like, that's the story of this team, too.
- [50:51]
B
I love Cat and what he's saying too, like right now, how he's answering those questions.
- [50:57]
E
I don't want to sound sugar coating or anything like that, but, Shaq, you know, you would. You would know what I'm saying. I don't know what it was, but I just felt a calm and a piece that, I don't know, had to become from the woman above. So I felt really confident about today. I felt good, you know, I felt like a kid. It felt like it was just fun out here. This is something that, as a kid, you. You always dream. Dream about. You always hope that you just hope to be an NBA player, let alone to be in the NBA finals. And all day, it was just a weird feeling. It felt like I was a kid getting ready to go play my Saturday AAU games and Sunday AAU games. And in a way, I felt like I was seeing her in the stands and it was just.
- [51:41]
A
It was.
- [51:41]
E
It was fun. It was really fun and it was really comforting.
- [51:45]
B
I'm just like, like, how can you not Root for this guy? How can you not root for this guy? How can you not root for this Knicks team, too? Like, Brunson gave up $113 million. That's not a normal thing. Guys. Like, that's not talked about enough. You know, it's like he put his money where his mouth is to. To assemble a team of people that, you know, he could have better stats if he doesn't give up 113 million and he shoots even more shots. Right. Like, I know he's getting a lot of shots, but I'm just saying it could be even more like Kat sacrificing his stats and his shot attempts and his points to be able to do that. Mikhail Bridges had a bigger role in other places and was able to do more. And now he's kind of at the whim of when the ball gets swung to me and when I touch it. And last night, game three, I don't touch it as much, so I only get, like, you know, four shot attempts. It's just this team. How can you not root for this team? That is winning culture. That is winning stuff. Whether they win the championship or not is one thing, but that doesn't mean that they don't have winning habits and winning culture, and that doesn't mean that they're not. They're extremely, extremely tough. And I love everything about these Knicks. Yeah.
- [52:55]
A
I love that you, without even you getting on television and screaming it, that you're also just a through line here, that you're part of the connective tissue that connected Carl Towns to this team. As a fan, that showed the Garden that this place can be better, it can be louder, it can be more intimidating, and now you get to actually be there in person. It's just. Look, part of what I was always trying to do when I was covering you was figure out, like, what is the best ending to this story. And I think the one that you envisioned, the one that I envisioned, it had you staying here in New York the whole time. But what this is, instead, in the way that, of course, none of us could predict, it's just poetic in its own way.
- [53:45]
B
Totally.
- [53:46]
A
And it's cosmic in its own way.
- [53:48]
B
Totally.
- [53:49]
A
I didn't realize I've covered you since 2010, and if you were to tell me that in 2026, this conversation would feel like it was meant to be in its own way, I. I would not have believed that either.
- [54:04]
B
Would I have loved to stay on the Knicks? Yeah. You know, longer and blah, blah, blah. There's a. There was kind of as you said, our dream of what it would look like. But this is the perfect ending to that chapter in the sense of our lives are always meant to kind of progress and evolve. Can we go to places? Can all humans go to places and leave it better than when we first got there and pass the torch? We were never meant to kind of just go to places, do things, and that's the peak and that's the end. Like, we all evolve. And so your goal is to leave a place better than when you got there and to continue to pass the torch. And everything is up in life is about loving other people, serving the next generation, preparing the world, and they're preparing the, the next crop of young people. There were so many Knicks legends that did what they did. They built MSG and the Knicks to the, to what it was. I was able to be a very small part of that story and hopefully left it better than when I got there. And now they're continuing to take this Knicks franchise further than we could ever have taken it. And because of that, we get to heal along the way. Like, it is extremely, extremely poetic and in many ways it is so unifying in a very divisive, hostile time in society, in this world. But when it comes to the Knicks, we are one, and that is beautiful.
- [55:24]
A
Jeremy Lynn, I just want to thank you for being a way better quote than you used to be.
- [55:32]
B
Thanks for the patience, man. Thanks for the patience. Thanks for. Thanks for being in my corner. It only took 16 years.
- [55:45]
A
This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production and I'll talk to you next time.
- [56:14]
B
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
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Hello, everyone.
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We wanted to give you a big update we're very excited about on our weekly product review series called Live With It.
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Yay.
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B
It's still produced by the DTNS family of folks and friends. Nothing changes. Content wise, we'll be reviewing all the tech products, services and platforms that we think you'll care about.
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