Maury Povich and Connie Chung Love Each Other to Death

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Maury Povich and Connie Chung Love Each Other to Death”

Pablo Torre Finds Out | The Athletic

Date: December 4, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guests: Maury Povich & Connie Chung

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Main Theme

This episode is a captivating, candid, and often hilarious joint conversation with Maury Povich and Connie Chung—media legends, longtime spouses, and cultural icons. Hosted by Pablo Torre, it dives into their enduring marriage (complete with its current ups-and-downs), their separate and intertwined careers in media, reflections on the state of journalism and news, and some unexpected stories, including smoking the “Connie Chung” strain of cannabis. It's a rare, behind-the-curtain examination of public and private lives, legacy, and love, told with honesty and wit.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Marriage, Podcasts, and Spades (02:24–07:07)

• Format: Maury arrives first and Pablo explains the structure—first Maury, then Connie, then both, then just Connie.
• Current State: Maury jokingly admits, “We are in the we don’t like each other stage right now...We love each other to death, but, quite frankly, there are times we do not like each other. And I think this is one of those times.” (04:41)
• Career Life: Both guests are described as hyper-accomplished and busy, which contributes to their occasionally fraught dynamic.
• Noteworthy Detail: Maury and Pablo teamed up and “beat the draws off” Nick Cannon in a game of spades, joking about Cannon’s prolific personal life:
  • Maury: “He's some entrepreneur...he is huge.”
  • Pablo: “The guy is in all fields. Prolific.”
  • Maury (laughing): “Especially when he’s counting up his five-year-olds and three-year-olds.” (07:26)

2. Gambling, Integrity, and Sports (08:09–12:15)

• Discussion: Pablo and Maury riff on gambling in sports and the temptation for athletes to influence outcomes (“the incentive is so appealing”).
• Maury’s Legacy: Athletes, including Shaquille O’Neal and NFL players, would bet amongst themselves about the outcomes of Maury’s paternity reveals, sometimes refusing to leave the locker room before seeing who the father was.
  • Maury: “They want to get out on the field, and they won’t come out till they find out who the father is.” (11:32)

3. Connie Arrives: Marriage Dynamics in Real Time (12:19–14:44)

• On-Screen Dynamic: Upon Connie’s entrance, the “we don’t like each other” motif continues with playful barbs.
  • Connie: “That’s absolutely true, Pablo. I had a few meltdowns with Maury this past weekend.” (10:45)
  • Maury: “Why do you like him [Pablo] so much?” Connie: “He is really smart. He’s cool. He’s got a sense of humor.” (14:47)
• Mutual Respect: Despite the sparring, both express underlying respect for each other's accomplishments.

4. Careers in Journalism & Shifts in Media (16:21–24:01)

• Maury as History Buff: Maury describes his interest in political and economic history, currently reading “1929.”
• News Culture Change: Connie critiques the shift from fact-based reporting to opinion-dominated news. She laments the loss of editorial independence and the negative impact of corporate acquisitions on journalistic standards.
  • “The paradigm has completely changed in news and we have so much opinion that the truth doesn’t hold value anymore.” (20:30)
  • About CBS: “CBS has now been taken over thanks to greedy owners...their greed has caused the venerable CBS to actually disassemble.” (21:28)
• Autonomy & Watchdog Role:
  • “We reporters are watchdogs of government. It’s our job to report information that is not fed to us.” (22:47)

5. Confronting Power: Trump, Loyalty Tests, and Newsroom Integrity (24:10–29:36)

• Connie’s 1990 Trump Interview: Pablo revisits Connie’s adversarial interview with Donald Trump, and the fallout—Trump later publicly mocked her and returned cut flowers she sent to get his attention regarding a news story.
  • “She sent me roses afterward. And I won't tell you what I did with the roses...I sent her back the stems.” (Trump, as cited by Pablo, 25:26)
• Courage Across Eras: Connie and Maury reflect on loyalty tests in journalism, with Maury recalling his break from sports reporting after being asked by a coach, "Are you with us or against us?"
• Modern Parallels: Both see direct lines between then and now—politicians discrediting reporters, organizations muzzling their journalists, and the industry’s struggle to remain adversarial.

6. The Private Becomes Public: Quarrels, Respect, and Roles (29:36–31:35)

• Maury on Being 'Mr. Chung': “For 40, almost 41 years, I’ve been Mr. Chung. Okay, I admit it...I’ve been Mr. Chung ever since, and I accept it.” (29:43)
• Name Identity: Connie teases, “No, no, no. I’ve been Mrs. Povich for a long time, too.”
• Bittersweet Humor: They argue playfully over names, marital roles, and Maury’s podcasting promotion skills.

7. Connie Solo: Marriage, Memory, and Media (35:36–43:04)

• Three Worst Things About Being Married to Maury (35:42):
  1. “He cannot multitask. He can do one thing at a time.”
  2. “He compartmentalizes, which I envy.”
  3. “He can do most sports that I can’t...If I were to play golf with him, I would want to try to beat him. And I know I can’t.”
• Maury’s 2025 Priorities: “Golf. Golf. Golf.” (36:55)
• Support System: Connie credits Maury for emotionally supporting her during the toughest stretches of her groundbreaking career.
  • “Maury would pour me a stiff scotch, and we’d sit and we’d talk, and he would talk me off the ledge...He would say, don’t take yourself seriously, but take your work seriously.” (38:34)
• Legacy in News: Connie reflects on breaking barriers at CBS and how her male colleagues expected her to acquiesce as the first Asian person and second woman to anchor a major evening newscast.

8. Investigative Journalism: Pride and Frustration (41:05–51:18)

• The Mission: Connie highlights the “satisfaction” of investigative reporting and expresses concern for the declining standards in American news.
  • “We gather as much truth as we can and we impart it to them.” (41:26)
• Industry Decline: Connie identifies the sale of major networks to conglomerates as the turning point when “the money we made was more important than the news we covered.” (47:13)
• Local News as a Haven: Maury founded the Flathead Beacon in Montana, which wins state awards and reports “the news straight.” (49:37–51:18)
  • “The conclusion that we’ve come to is that...what you can trust are your local news [outlets].” (50:57)

9. Media, Tech Giants, and Public Trust (48:04–51:47)

• Tech Ownership: Pablo observes, “All of us fundamentally who work in media work for tech companies,” and laments values lost to profit motives and stock charts.
• Legacy: They discuss the importance of being “the good guy in the documentary” over short-term gain.

10. Lighter, Memorable Moments: “Connie Chung Weed” (53:36–57:15)

• Podcast Praise: Connie compliments Pablo’s show for its creativity and humor (53:36).
• Cannabis Anecdote: Connie divulges, for the first time, that she and Maury have tried the “Connie Chung” strain of weed after someone delivered it across state lines:
  • “He [Maury] took like one or two puffs...He went, yeah, I was turned off to it. I mean, and I said, I don’t feel anything. I feel nothing...Then I started laughing. I couldn’t stop laughing.” (55:48–56:58)
• Metaphor for the Show: Pablo jokes, “That feels like a bit of a metaphor for what has happened in this episode. Maury said, ‘I’ve had enough of this woman,’ and you stayed here and got to laugh a lot with me.” (57:03)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We love each other to death, but quite frankly, there are times we do not like each other. And I think this is one of those times.”
  — Maury Povich (04:44)
• “The paradigm has completely changed in news and we have so much opinion that the truth doesn’t hold value anymore.”
  — Connie Chung (20:30)
• “Don’t take yourself seriously, but take your work seriously.”
  — Maury’s advice to Connie (38:46)
• “The first one through the door faces the heaviest gunfire.”
  — Connie on being a trailblazer (39:52)
• “All of us fundamentally who work in media work for tech companies.”
  — Pablo Torre (48:32)

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Structure & Flow

• 00:00–02:24: Introduction & setup (skip ads)
• 02:24–10:19: Maury on marriage, career, and sports
• 10:19–14:44: Connie enters, banter escalates
• 16:21–24:01: On media, news, and CBS
• 24:10–29:36: Confronting power, Trump, industry changes
• 29:36–35:36: Marital roles, legacy jokes
• 35:36–43:04: Connie alone—marriage details, Maury’s support
• 41:05–51:18: Investigative journalism, Flathead Beacon
• 53:36–57:15: Podcast praise, cannabis caper
• 57:15–end: Playful outro and sign-off

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Tone & Atmosphere

• Candid, intergenerational, and sharp. Maury and Connie don’t pull punches on each other or their professions—and are as funny as they are wise.
• Reflective, critical, but loving. Even as they critique the state of media and poke fun at each other, a genuine admiration always comes through.

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Takeaways

• Maury Povich and Connie Chung remain unflinchingly honest about their relationship, professional journeys, and the industry around them.
• The tension between commercial interests, integrity, and the adversarial role of journalists is examined with the clarity of those who lived and shaped media history.
• The episode is both a masterclass in storytelling and a warm, at times hilarious, portrait of two enduring icons.

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For those who want laughter, wisdom, and a tour through media old and new, this episode is not to be missed.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[B]

Why are you being so nice? You haven't been nice all week.

[C]

Well, neither have you.

[A]

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[D]

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[E]

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[C]

Cozy Tommy John pajamas you're buying?

[F]

Paige de Sorbo? They are Tommy John. And yes, I'm stocking up because they make the best holiday gifts.

[C]

So generous.

[F]

Well, I'm a generous girly, especially when it comes to me. So I'm grabbing the softest sleepwear, comfiest underwear, and best fitting loungewear.

[C]

So nothing for your bestie?

[F]

Of course I'm getting my dad Tommy John. Oh, and you, of course, it's giving.

[C]

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[F]

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[A]

Is it possible that Connie gets here late but then leaves later?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

So I do want to clarify for the audience what's happening here is that we're gonna get one period of just you, Maury Povich, talking about Connie Chung.

[B]

No problem.

[A]

And then at some point you're gonna get out of here, right?

[B]

Because I have my podcast to do.

[A]

I know, because you're on par with.

[B]

Mario Povich because you're a media magazine. I mean, I'm gonna do the same when you substitute on on pti. You know, I got the sign right here on par with Mario on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, all of your social media platforms.

[A]

Dare you. How dare you throw shade at my unrepentant promotion of this show on every possible platform.

[B]

Wow. In fact, I was shocked the other day when Will Bon wasn't there. And so you're always Tony's.

[A]

That's right, partner.

[B]

And then you didn't show up.

[A]

I was not there.

[B]

It must have been a very important place. You were.

[A]

I was traveling somewhere and was very heartbroken to not be Tony Kornheiser's emotional support animal.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's. That's something. I. I really do value the exclusivity of the intimacy of that relationship.

[B]

You don't go on with Wilbon. Mostly. And.

[A]

Well, I won't have me. Maybe you can put a word in.

[B]

No, he wants the other guy.

[A]

He wants Frank, Wants Frankie. I. He's a different kink. His thing is a different thing. But this thing, by the way, this thing. You have to help me explain to the audience how long I've been trying to put this summit together, starting in.

[B]

The spring, maybe last year. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, literally the first time you came on the show, I was like, what if we.

[B]

Wait a second. We've never appeared together on your show.

[A]

No, no, no. You, me, and your better half.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The three of us have not done this. No, you came on the show.

[B]

Connie's been on your show. I've been on your show. The fact that you would want us together, very brave.

[A]

Well, I've been warned against it.

[B]

It's not. I mean, she's going to show up here and I will be clueless as to what's going to come out of her mouth. And quite frankly, I mean, I'll tell you.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Now I'll even tell her when she. We are in the we don't like each other stage right now.

[A]

So far, that checks out. Based on.

[B]

Something's going on. I don't know, maybe it's in the water, but, you know, we've been married for over 40 years. We love each other to death, but quite frankly, there are times we do not like each other. And I think this is one of those times. This podcast, and I want to. And when she comes on, you'll understand it. She pays me much. Just grief. A lot of grief.

[A]

I feel like that. That general observation is most substantiated by the fact that this chair is empty right now.

[B]

I know. I mean, I'm looking at the empty chair and quite frankly, it looks.

[C]

Like.

[B]

I'll tell her when she comes in that We've been discussing how we don't like each other these days, and I'm.

[A]

Gonna immediately turn on you and take her side. Just aware of the dynamic that's gonna happen here. I mean, yeah, I'm gonna abandon you immediately.

[B]

There's a time in. In the life of a couple where you just don't know how to handle it. You know, you're kind of walking on eggshells.

[A]

I can go sign this personally, right?

[B]

You know that.

[A]

You know, but what I relate to and part of, again, my genuine love for your love, such as it is, is that you guys are both incredibly individually accomplished, busy people with trajectories that I know, based on both the book that Connie read, which you talked about the last time she was here, and also from my friendship with you, such as the time we beat Nick Cannon in spades together recently.

[B]

Boy, was that an overwhelming victory.

[A]

I mean, not close.

[B]

I mean.

[A]

I mean, undefeated.

[B]

I haven't played spades in 50 years. Maybe 60.

[A]

We gotta pull these out.

[B]

Y' all beat the draws off. Oh, my God.

[C]

Oh, my Lord.

[A]

Look at that.

[B]

Congratulations, Pablo.

[C]

They gotta sign the draw.

[B]

You know what?

[A]

I would say that the two of us together made history. Yes, we made podcast history.

[B]

Yeah. But he was a gracious loser.

[A]

A gracious loser. And I would beat him again. I would happily go back and defend our title.

[B]

You know, I knew about Nick a little bit. He's some entrepreneur.

[A]

You're talking about him just in terms of, like, his sperm or you're talking about in terms of his actual too.

[B]

But I mean, all of his business ventures. I mean, it's. He is huge.

[A]

Well, look, the guy is in all fields. Prolific.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Especially when he's counting up his 5 year olds and 3 year olds.

[A]

I keep on forgetting how many kids Nick Cannon has. I'm looking it up now.

[B]

It's 12.

[A]

I think it's 12. And he had some number in the same year, which we talked about, and thankfully, he allowed us to remain. Even though you dug in with your dogged reporting.

[B]

I had to. I mean, you know, Covid.

Covet produced a lot of dogs for people, A.

[A]

Lot of dogs, a lot of podcasts, and in Nick Cannon's case, multiple lovely, beautiful children whose names he absolutely can tell you on demand.

[B]

Which is good.

[A]

Which is impressive. And I don't know if I could do the same.

[B]

So let me turn it back on you.

[A]

Why? Why are we doing that?

[B]

Well, first of all, I know all about your investigations into the basketball stuff and gambling and stuff.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you expect it to bleed into baseball.

[A]

I am unsurprised because I mean, Mari, when you can pitch a, whatever a, a mile per hour slower than what the line is, the legal gambling operator set line is, and you can make people money, the incentive is so appealing, if you're the least bit unconcerned with the integrity of the sport, you can easily convince yourself, I can get away with this.

[B]

Right? Once all these exotic bets came, you knew that it was. There's going to be trouble.

[A]

Can you imagine if people could bet on whether or not someone would be the father? Like I said, I'm not 100, I'm.

[C]

Not 200, I'm 5,000. Let's hear it. Let's hear it.

[B]

When it comes to 4 month old Danye Andrew, you are not the 5.

Guess what? Shaquille o' Neal and his buddies watch my show all the time, bet lots of money with each other. His tracks to find out whether they were the father or not. He was a great lover of the show and he and his buddies would all watch and bet.

[A]

Maury, you could have been leaking inside information to one of Shaq's entourage members and just totally cleaned him out.

[B]

You know, I. It's very interesting about the show. I. I've talked to many, many professional athletes, even football players.

[A]

Oh, hold on. Your wife's calling you.

[B]

Oh, boy.

Okay, I'm starting the show.

[C]

Three minutes away.

[B]

You're three minutes away.

[C]

Can you tell. Ask them to send somebody to the lobby.

[B]

Send somebody to the lobby. Okay, we'll do that so that I.

[C]

Can just sail in.

[B]

You're right. Guess what? I'm on with Pablo right now. You're part of this.

[A]

Hello?

[B]

So he's going to talk to me, then we're going to talk together. Then you're going to stay and talk to him alone and I can leave.

[C]

Can I stay with Pablo for the rest of the day?

[B]

Yes, I've already been talking. I want to prepare you for this because I've told Pablo I've been very honest and transparent. We love each other to the desk, but quite frankly, these days we don't like each other.

[C]

That's absolutely true, Pablo.

I had a few meltdowns with Maury this past weekend.

Because. Because, Because.

[B]

Okay, hard to blame you. We can explain to everybody how these are periods of our life that we just try to get over.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Well, that's a hell of a tease.

[B]

I'll see you. Somebody will be down to meet you. Yes, I'm glad that she was okay with me. Telling you that we're not liking each other these days.

[A]

Now I got to figure out what all these becauses.

[B]

No, you're not going to say. You better not.

Oh, boy. No, it's just internal matters.

[A]

You sound like an athlete who's like. We had a players only meeting.

[B]

Yeah. Oh. So talking about that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I even had to verify this with various people. The show would come on in the morning all around the country. NFL players would be in the locker room getting ready for practice. The coaches are upstairs. They want them. They want to get them out on the field. And they won't come out till they find out who the father is. I sat at the super bowl last year and behind me was Warren Sapp. I said, this is what I've been told. And Warren said, absolutely. We wouldn't go out there until we found out who the father was.

[A]

So you're responsible. You yourself, your show is. It's been responsible for the underperformance of various athletes throughout time. You are a one man gambling scandal.

[B]

Oh, yeah, right. Oh, boy.

[C]

Nice to see you.

[B]

Good to see you.

[C]

How are you?

[A]

Pablo.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Hello. This is.

[B]

I'm excited. I got a kiss.

[C]

How are you?

[A]

Thank you for being here.

[C]

It's cold outside.

[B]

I know, honey. I don't need it right now.

[C]

I know, I know.

[B]

Okay. Why are you being so nice? You haven't been nice all week.

[C]

Well, neither have you.

Hi, Pablo.

[A]

I'm here to take your side in all arguments. I'm here to totally betray the friendship that I have with your husband.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

It's not close. Who's right in this argument?

[C]

Thank you. Thank you. We met before.

[A]

We did.

[C]

Patrick. Nice to meet you again. Can I stand up?

[A]

Of course.

[B]

No.

[C]

Why? Honey? My back.

[B]

Oh, is it bad?

[C]

Oh, well, no, it's always bad.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah. That's okay. Is it okay?

[A]

You did it.

[C]

It's a little better.

[B]

Good.

[C]

Hi, honey. How are you? How are you? Can I. Can I stand with Maury?

Can.

[A]

Can Connie Chung stand next to Maury Povich?

[C]

Oh, unfortunately, no. No. Okay. I have to go. Mark here. Oh, sorry.

[B]

That's okay.

[A]

For, for.

[B]

There's always a Mark, Connie. Come on.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then let us explain to you how television works, the two of you. It's a medium in which people need to cover edits when one of you curses horrifically. No, we'll leave it all in. We're gonna leave it all in.

[B]

Is the not, like, period over?

[C]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Not on this end.

[C]

Oh, jeez. Oh, thank you.

[A]

You walked into a Trap Connie.

[C]

I did.

[A]

Entire scenario has been a. I'll hold it up.

[B]

You've been holding me up for years.

[C]

Hi, Pablo.

[A]

You look great. I love that. Every time you're like, can I do this thing? And what that thing involves is you showing that you have endurance that far outpaces.

[C]

It's not a test of endurance. It's that I have a bad back and when I sit down forever, then I can't get up and walk.

[A]

It's, you know, it's a degree of athleticism that is not typically shown in this studio, is my point.

[C]

Hi, Pablo.

[A]

Hello. I've been waiting.

[B]

Why do you like him so much?

[C]

You know what? He is really smart. He's cool. He's got a sense of humor.

[B]

Why are you looking at me?

[C]

No, he's. He's very much like you.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Thank.

[A]

Thank you both.

[B]

Wow, I'm impressed.

[C]

I was impressed with Pablo the first time I saw him on espn.

[B]

Now you were impressed when you looked him up and found out he went to Harvard and all that stuff.

[C]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not true. As soon as I saw him on ESPN on probably Wilbon and Kornheiser.

[A]

Huh?

[C]

Pardon the interruption. It was on. Pardon the interruption, I'm pretty sure. And he was. He was really good.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I. I said, maury, who's he?

[B]

And I said, pablo.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And he said coldly, he's Pablo.

[C]

And then I said, I. I see a little bit of ethnicity there.

[A]

I did a genetic test.

[B]

Oh, you did?

[A]

Recently, yeah.

[B]

And what happened? What you find out?

[A]

I'm like 11% Chinese now she's ready to move in.

[C]

I mean, 11%.

It'S even better.

[A]

So there's some little. There's a. There are like trace amounts of Spanish.

[B]

You know, but the Philippines suffered the way China suffered at the hands of the Japanese. So, you know, accurate.

[A]

Very, very true. I didn't bring you guys here to talk about geopolitical history, though.

[C]

But did you know that Mory is such a history buff political expert? Seriously, stop it. He's very, very into all things political.

[B]

I'll tell you what I'm reading now. I'm reading this book by Andrew Ross Sorkin called 1929. Yeah. And I'm reading it because. Is it going to happen again? And, you know, is this bubble. Whatever, whatever. Everybody, everybody. You know, Bernard Baruch used to say, when the elevator operator is telling you what stock to buy, watch out.

[A]

We hired a witch to curse artificial intelligence for our Halloween episode.

[B]

Oh, really?

[C]

What a great idea.

[A]

And I think it's happening. I'm here to report that I think the curse worked.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is to say if we. If the economy collapses because of AI, it might be because of us. I guess in retrospect, maybe that wasn't what we wanted to curse. Yeah. Our 401ks. Apologies to America.

[C]

Pablo, how are you?

[A]

I'm pretty good.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm a little, you know, people ask me, how are you doing? And sort of the subtext of it is, has anyone tried to assassinate you?

[B]

Right.

[F]

I was.

[B]

I was gonna say, I mean, it must be a lot of blowback.

[C]

Right.

[A]

A lot of people with lots of money wish that I would.

[B]

Is there any owner that still takes your calls?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Really? Yeah.

[A]

This works, though. Yes. Because I. I think there is. I don't know. I'm on my training wheels version of this. You guys did this for decades, but once people know that you do this kind of thing, the incoming of like, hey, you should know this other sort of thing.

[C]

Oh.

[A]

So as much as I am, I don't know this strange. I don't like being known as, like, the grim reaper of sports journalism. I guess if I'm Collins, bad things.

[B]

Are happening to you.

[C]

It's incredibly admirable.

[A]

But I do enjoy that behind the scenes. Yeah. There are people who are very supportive and are here to, I don't know, share information that I get to vet and decide, is this also something worth doing?

[C]

So I can't believe how many incidents there are right now. I mean, there's just a plethora of them. And you remember why Maury decided that he just couldn't continue in sports.

[B]

I started out in TV as the 10 o' clock news sportscaster in Washington on Channel 5, where my hometown. And I was cover. I used to cover the then Washington Redskins, and George Allen was the coach. He was kind of a. He was kind of a Belichick before Belichick kind of a guy, you know, never liked reporters and everything.

[A]

Got yoga very late in life.

[B]

Right. So one day I'm in the locker room and I see. And this is the 70s, okay. And so in the 70s, there are a lot of stories about drugs that players were using these illicit drugs in order to pump up and other stuff. Have cocaine outside the. The game and all that. And so there's this bottle of pills, and it could have been salt pills. I mean, I didn't know. I mean, who knows? So I said, coach, can you tell me what's in that bottle? And he says, Mari, this is 1973. He says, Mari, are you with us or against us? And I said to myself, I gotta get out of sports. I just, I just gotta. How did my father do it for 75 years? I gotta get out of sports. If you have to have a loyalty test, I'm in big trouble. And that's when I went to news.

[A]

I dare say that a lot of people have decided to be with them.

[C]

Yes, Yes.

[B]

I asked Jeff Pearlman, okay, who I had on my show, another great sports writer and stuff.

[A]

Sports Illustrated.

[B]

Yes. And writes great books.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I said to Jeff, I said, does this still happen? He said, absolutely.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I would say more than ever. And by the way, you see that of course, in news, actually, as. By the way, what's it like to watch CBS right now?

[C]

We don't, I mean, I can't. The paradigm has completely changed in news and we have so much opinion that the truth doesn't hold value anymore. And what we end up doing is trying to, we as consumers trying to find the truth. We can't find good old fashioned facts. And it distresses me so terribly. CBS is a whole different organization that I had worked for. CBS has now been taken over thanks to greedy owners. Sherry Redstone partnering with David Ellison, Larry Ellison's son. And their greed has caused the venerable CBS to actually.

Disassemble, to crash into crumbles. And then they've hired this. I don't know what to call Barry Weiss.

[A]

I don't either.

[C]

You know, I just don't know.

[B]

Yeah, but she's, you know, we'll see.

[C]

It's not a big we'll see as if, well, she could possibly restore.

[B]

She was there the other day when Trump goes on 60 Minutes. I thought it was a decent interview. It was. Okay.

[A]

You're talking about Nora o' Donnell's interview. Yes, well, part of, part of my concern, by the way. And I, I find it very. If I were you, I'd find it very difficult to watch the administration of CBS News wear the costume of CBS News, getting to cosplay, to pretend that nothing is different, even though the very premise of their acquisition of the network was in fact at the discretion and blessing of the President, who was the interview subject in that video that we're describing.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

And so just the very basic premise of that feels very hard to stomach. If you care about anything resembling adversarial.

[C]

If you care about serious news. When I worked at cbs, it was owned by William Paley and he actually.

Made it a point of allowing the news division to be autonomous and not have to worry about the bottom line. He had a president by the name of Frank Stanton who went before Congress time and time again to defend the fourth estate. Now we have a complete dismantling of that kind of social responsibility that we are watchdogs. We reporters are watchdogs of government. It's our job to report information that is not fed to us. So when the Pentagon reporters walked out en masse because they were forced to actually sign these promises that they would not.

[A]

A loyalty test almost literally written down.

[C]

Yeah, it was just apri. I mean, it was repulsive. And I'm so glad that they walked out. I think it's so important what those Pentagonists.

[B]

You have to say the same thing about White House reporters. They're trying to do their job.

[C]

They're trying to do their job and they're being muzzled.

[A]

I am reminded of, of course, Connie's interview of the aforementioned President of the United States back when he was merely one of the most prominent businessmen and celebrities.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This was April 1990 on Face to Face with Connie Chung. And when you're here the last time, we played some of it back. But the aftermath, I don't think I ever asked you about because what happens on CBS is that there's a re. Air of the interview. This very adversarial interview with Connie is truly holding him to account and calling him out on his bullshit and actually talking about the bull and how you are calling him out on it as it's happening about how much he didn't like publicity and talking about Woolman Rink, the skating rink in Central park and his buildings. He has this posture about it.

[B]

There's no reason to expose yourself to millions of people.

[C]

There's no. You know why you do it? Why? You love the publicity.

[B]

Oh, I hate the publicity.

[C]

Oh, come on, get out of here.

[B]

I'm telling you, I hate the publicity.

[C]

Oh, please. I ha.

[B]

And except for the fact that it's fun as a sparring session, I mean, this would normally not even be fun.

[C]

This is.

[B]

This is fine and this is fun.

[C]

You're on all these covers. Playboy fame. I mean, it happens to be. It happens to be. Well, both.

[B]

It happens to be good for what I do.

[A]

But then in August, CBS rears it and Donald Trump your every rips you.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And I'll read just the quote that Donald Trump gave to the Joan Rivers Show a month after the rebroadcast because the quote was, this woman has less talent than anybody I know. Of called you a disaster, said, you interviewed like a little child. And then he said this. She sent me roses afterward. And I won't tell you what I did with the roses. And then Joan Rivers says, hold on, what are you saying? What'd you do? He then proceeds to reveal, quote, I cut him up and sent him back. I sent her back the stems. Actually, I did.

End quote.

[C]

Now, wasn't that an incredibly ballsy move with a river?

Well, yes. You know why I sent him flowers? Because the day after I, I interviewed him on a particular day, we weren't going to air it until we edited it. So on the day I interviewed him, I said I had asked him who his friends were and does he have a best friend. And he hemmed and hawed and he.

[B]

Said, well, I have so many different friends, and it would be hard to.

[C]

Say a best friend. Is your wife Ivana a best friend?

[B]

She's, she's a, she's a great friend.

[C]

She's. The very next day, it was announced that they were getting divorced and he was already having a very public affair with Marla Maples. So I sent him flowers and I said, don't you think you need to correct the record? And the only way I could get his attention was to send him flowers. If I just sent him a note, would he actually get it and read it? That's what the origin of the flowers was.

[A]

Did he send them back to you cut up?

[C]

See, I, I don't remember that at all.

[B]

But, but what he said about her, the way he criticized her, is the same way he criticizes reporters today. Today asking the same kinds of questions, hard questions. He says, you're, you're the worst reporter ever. Your network is worse. You're a third rate reporter. And that's what he does.

[C]

Well, that's what he said to Megan Kelly.

[A]

Her response, it turned out over time, was very different from your response over time.

[C]

What was her response?

[A]

Her response was at the time, I believe, was to take that as an affront, and then over time was to truly join the team.

[B]

Oh, yeah, sure.

[C]

Without question.

[A]

The George Allen test.

[B]

Right.

[A]

She decided I'm going to be on that side of things.

[B]

Are you with us or against us? I, I'll just be with you.

[A]

That's the way it seems to me as a matter of who does what when they get challenged.

[B]

Can I wrap up my section in about three minutes and then you can have her?

[A]

So let's.

[B]

Yourself.

[A]

Well, let's, well, let's, let's hold on. Let's let's just settle a couple of outstanding beefs here, okay? Because when you say that Connie doesn't like you right now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What did you do?

[B]

What did I do?

[A]

Yeah, what did you do?

[B]

I don't even want to ask because I'm clueless.

[C]

No, you're not.

[B]

I'm, I'm walking.

[C]

You know, I made it very clear.

[A]

What camera can I look into just to.

[B]

I'm not talking about this.

[C]

No, he's incredulous. He's, he's feigning incredulity.

[A]

Oh, Jesus.

[B]

That was a tough word, wasn't it? Jesus.

[A]

How'd you get that one?

[C]

Get it out.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's a nail.

[A]

The landing.

[B]

Especially one.

[A]

Maury, stop it. Maury. Okay, what did you do?

[B]

I'm not, I'm not going to talk about it. I didn't do anything. There was not one thing. It's just my attitude. It's my general attitude.

I mean, come on. I mean, I, I'm allowed to have an attitude?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Not according to you.

[C]

No, no, no, me too. Me too.

[B]

Well, I know you have an attitude. That's why I'm not too sure I like you these days.

[A]

I will say, visually speaking, it does so of replicate Connie standing and you sitting like, you know, that's the way at school being.

[B]

Look, for 40, almost 41 years, I've been Mr. Chung. Okay, I, I admit it. I, I, I, I.

[A]

You're an honorary member of the Asian community.

[B]

I don't mind it. I don't, I don't fight back. I'm, I'm fine being Mr. Chung. You always had the big name. When we got married, I was just this nothing, you know, little local anchor in Washington, and you were the big star. Okay, fine. I accepted it. And I was Mister. I've been Mr. Chung ever since, and I accept it.

[C]

No, no, no. I've been Mrs. Povich for a long time, too. You've. Huh?

[B]

Povich is not part of your name. You have been Connie Chung. There is no Connie Chung Povich. It's been Connie Chung. You've kept your entire name. Fine. I don't care. That's fine.

[C]

I just didn't, I didn't feel I looked like your mother.

[B]

So, anyway, I'm going. This is going to be the best part of my day. It's been fine until she came in, but the best part of my day, I'm going to interview a great actor.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

William H. Macy.

[A]

Are you promoting your podcast on my podcast?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

You're evading. Not only are you evading my investigative reporting. You are promoting.

[B]

I wish I had the sign so I could do the same thing you do on pti.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

I don't. Anyway, okay. Nice to be with you all.

[C]

Oh, Maury, do you have to go?

[B]

Did I have to go? Should have gone about a minute and a half ago.

Is that it? I'll see you tonight at the salon where we're gonna watch the head of cnn. And then later on, I'll cuddle you.

[C]

You will cuddle?

[B]

Yeah. Let's cuddle. Yeah.

[C]

Thank you. Okay.

[B]

Just remember, I also told Pablo you still hold grudges.

[A]

Yeah, I get the sense. I get the sense.

[C]

I'm sorry.

[B]

You know, it's been a delight.

[C]

Thank you.

Bye.

[A]

Shaking hands. Yeah.

[B]

Nice to meet you.

See you all later.

[A]

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[A]

Foreign.

Let's do something from the world of sports. I need you to give me the three worst things about being married to Maury.

[C]

Povich. The three worst things about.

[A]

Him. Yeah, we're gonna power rank the three worst things about being married to Maury Povich that only Connie Chung would.

[C]

Know. Okay, he cannot multitask. He can do one thing at a time. Number two, he compartmentalizes, which I envy. Men have the capacity to compartmentalize. Women worry about everything all the time. They worry about work at home, and at home they worry about work. So I admire the fact that he can compartmentalize, but.

I am so envious it makes me crazy. I think the third thing is that he can do most sports that I can't, just by virtue of the fact that he's tall and strong. If I were to play golf with him, I would want to try to beat him. And I know I can't basketball is a little bit better, but he's taller, and if he's guarding me, I have very little.

[A]

Chance. What are Maury Povich's priorities in the year.

[C]

2025? Okay, it's number one, golf. Number two, golf, number three, golf. And that's.

[A]

It. When I wanted to schedule this interview, this summit, I mostly realized that I just needed to work around his golf.

[C]

Schedule. Yes, it's true. But you know what? I admire him so much because he decided that when he stopped determining the paternity of every child in America that he would play golf, and he did that. But he believed very strongly in use it or lose it. So he didn't think he was exercising his brain as well as he was exercising his body. And I think that's great because he can keep sharp by doing his podcasts, and he loves to do interviews, and he's really good at.

[A]

It. Oh, of course. I mean, what's not in question is that Maury can still outwork.

Anybody who's, like, 40 years younger than him. That is not in question to.

[C]

Me. Exactly. And the other thing, if I may.

Without him, I would not have had a.

[A]

Career. Hold on. I don't understand that part. What do you.

[C]

Mean? Every step of the way, when I was beaten up by, I don't know, people who thought they had more power than I did, and they did actually have more power, or that they had bigger egos and didn't want me to be on their level.

I would come home, and Maury looked at this, what I call a resting bitch face. Maury would pour me a stiff scotch, and we'd sit and we'd talk, and he would talk me off the ledge. Basically, his message was, don't take your critics seriously. Don't take your naysayers seriously. Don't take your press seriously. Because I was getting a little skewered in the press, a lot skewered. He would say, don't take yourself seriously, but take your work seriously. And that's what I did. And I can tell you, really, that if it had not been for Maury, he was like a partner who helped me every step of the.

[A]

Way. Part of what I want our audience to appreciate about you is that as if it needs to be reset on this show. But you were the first woman to co anchor the CBS Evening News. You're the first Asian person, the second woman ever to anchor a major network newscast. And the competition in the business, the idea that you are a very. I mean, you present, of course, is very pleasant to Be around. But lots of people regarded you as a.

[C]

Threat. Yeah. My competitors were mostly men. They didn't look at me as a colleague, and I am a minority and I am a woman. And because of that, I think that they were expecting acquiescence. And I don't know where I got this feeling that I didn't have to count out to them. And I acted as if I was their equal. But a friend of mine said to me, the first one through the door faces the heaviest gunfire. So I think that Barbara Walters, who paved the way for all of us, experience extraordinary gunfire. And when I came along, because I was not white, I faced a different kind of gunfire because people were expecting the. My colleagues were expecting me to stand down, and I just couldn't bring myself to stand.

[A]

Down. Oh, yeah. I mean. But by the way, like what you said about what Mory's advice was, which is, take your work seriously, but take yourself less.

[C]

So.

[A]

Yes. Is a creed that I. Also part of the reason, I think you're, you know, not just a legend in my book, but like a kindred spirit. It is because of that specific mentality, like you can do real work but also laugh at yourself and each.

[C]

Other. Oh, good God. Yes. I mean, we. You know how.

Somewhere people would call those of us who are on the air talent, Right. That is ridiculous. And I don't know where they got this because we don't have talent. We just. We have a brain. We want to report news equally fairly. We tell one side, we tell the other side. And what we're doing is presenting it to the public and asking them to make their judgment on what they believe is true or right or whatever. But we. We gather as much truth as we can and we impart it to them. What I wanted to do is, you know, the kind of investigative reporting that you're doing in sports. It's so admirable. Investigative reporting is so satisfying, so gratifying, because you've uncovered something that nobody else has uncovered, and you're revealing information that people wanted to conceal. And that's what we're supposed to do, particularly with government when it comes to politics and.

[A]

News.

[C]

Yes. Because every single administration, not just this one, has covered up secret information that they want to hold near and dear to their hearts. We in the public know full well that they are lying. And we need to call it when they do lie. Right. I'm so worried about our news business these days because we're. We've just not. We're not standing up to the standards that we were taught at some.

[A]

Point. I wonder if you can identify when you started feeling this, because I've been sort of swimming in it for years now and I don't know exactly when it.

[C]

Changed.

[A]

Okay. But there was something to the old George Allen story that Maury was telling where being in conflict with someone in power gave way to wanting to get along with them. And I just, I don't know, I grew up thinking that, like, journalists are supposed to do the thing that makes the powerful person, at the very least, a little.

[C]

Uncomfortable. Yeah. Oh.

[A]

Yes. And you embodied that. Your interviews, I mean, our clinics. But like, listen, I've been investigating Steve.

[C]

Ballmer. Yeah, of.

[A]

Course. One of the 10 richest people in the world. At last check, the richest owner in all of sports. But I go back and I rewatched your interview of Bill Gates. Ah.

[C]

His. Oh, he walked.

[A]

Off. So remind me, remind us what it was like to get the founder of Microsoft, who was of course Steve Ballmer's classmate and also his close friend and the guy that Ballmer ultimately succeeded as the CEO of Microsoft. What was it like to interview.

[C]

Him? We were so impressed with him. But it was at a time when Microsoft was gobbling up small companies and should have been just like Rockefeller and, you know, the oil companies should have been called on.

[B]

It. A lot of people make the analogy that competing with Bill Gates is like playing hardball. I'd say it's more like a knife.

[A]

Fight. I've never heard any of these.

[C]

Things. You know, you're saying like knife fight, that's.

[B]

Silliness. It's.

[C]

Childish. I mean, why be a mouthpiece for that kind of. Of.

[A]

Silliness? Why doesn't he just. Just say.

[C]

Them? Anyway, it. Because it has nothing to do with the patent lawsuit. It has to. So I was peppering him with questions about these power hungry moves that he was making against small companies and he actually walked out. He walked out of the interview. People did not remember that because one more wonderful thing that he did was he was able to jump over a chair from a standing position. And it was so remarkable that it was remembered. It was chiseled in YouTube history. He does have at least one secret, but we'll fix that. Is it true that you can leap over a chair from a standing position? It depends on the size of the chair, but this chair, probably. So will you do.

[B]

It? Yeah, I don't know with the microphone on, if it's.

[C]

Doable. Watch the light.

[B]

Okay. I'll cheat a little.

[C]

Bit.

Yes.

I took a step before I did it. It's.

[A]

Okay. Yes. So what's so funny about that is I think of Gates now as like, the forerunner, obviously, to someone that, by the way, I went to college with Mark.

[C]

Zuckerberg. Oh.

[A]

Yes. Who became the new avatar in the social network and with Facebook and all.

[C]

That.

[A]

Yes. And Mark Zuckerberg now is like. He's pivoted to, like, mixed martial arts, and he's, like, working out and he's surfing and he's trying to reassert, I would say, his masculinity. And then I go back and watch your interview with Gates, and I'm like, bill Gates was doing the same thing, basically saying, look at how high I can.

[C]

Jump. Oh, my God. And shame on all of these people who have billions of dollars and they are kowtowing with no integrity, no principles to the Trump administration. I'm embarrassed for them. But you had asked a question. You were trying to. To reach back. Yeah. And try and figure out when the pendulum swung so wildly off course.

[A]

Because you were a standard and a template. Walter Cronkite was the other men that you were competing with, by the way. At the very least, the premise was they were of a certain perspective of how to hold powerful people.

[C]

Accountable.

[A]

Yes. And then at some point, flash forward to Today, the smash cut, something happened in between, and I don't know.

[C]

What. This is my take on what happened when William Paley sold CBS to Larry Tisch and when Capital Cities and then ultimately Disney took over abc and then when General Electric took over NBC. Prior to that, there was some social responsibility. But when GE and Disney and Laritage took over, the bottom line became so important that we had. We in news divisions had to grovel for ratings so that the networks would be able to charge more from advertisers. So the money we made was more important than the news we covered. That's what happened. And now it has reached a point at which of no.

[A]

Return. Part of what I think has happened, as we think back at your interview with Bill Gates, is that at some point, every media company gave way to ultimately a very. Not just corporate ethos when it came to, like, the stock chart and what matters and what comes at the expense of it, but also the perspective and the mentality of tech companies. Like tech companies are owning everything. All of us fundamentally who work in media work for tech.

[C]

Companies. Yes.

[A]

Yes. That's the ethos. That's the strategy. That's the competition we're trying to beat. And it is like, the thing that I think about all the time is.

At some point, don't you want to be the good guy in the.

[C]

Documentary? Yeah. That's a great way to put.

[A]

It. I'm looking back at the stuff that you've done and the stuff that Maury's done, and I'm like, man, like, I would like to look back at an interview that I've conducted and be.

[C]

Proud. I'm sure you have.

[A]

Them. All I want to point out, though, is simply that part of what I am so tickled by when it comes to your relationship with Maury, as this empty chair now signifies, the nuances of this relationship, is how you guys have truly, like, lasted and passed the test of time. There is something about how you have. By the way, when I was asking, like, what are you guys doing in Montana? Part of the answer is not just, Maury's playing golf and you guys are fly fishing. You started a local.

[C]

Newspaper. Oh, yes. I'm so proud of Maury. He. He created a newspaper, I don't know, more than a decade ago, probably 15 years, almost 20. It was kind of a tribute to his father, who was a Washington Post or columnist for reporter for 75 years. A great.

[A]

Writer. Shirley Povich, a legend in sports.

[C]

Writing. He really was a legend. Along the lines of Red Smith.

[A]

The all time greats.

[C]

Truly. Yes. He's in the hall of fame and he was a lovely man. He was an extremely erudite, soft spoken man with a great sense of humor. Maury is just like him, except he's not soft spoken.

It's a really good.

[A]

Newspaper. The Flathead Beacon is a weekly paper serving northwest.

[C]

Montana.

[A]

Yep. And it was started, as you put it in 2007, 18 years.

[C]

Ago. Now what he did was he hired great journalists who report the news straight even. They've gotten every single award that you can imagine, from best investigative to best political reporting. I mean, all the good.

[A]

Stuff. Yeah. It's been named the state's best large weekly, you.

[C]

Know.

[A]

Yes. You know, more than 10 times it seems like at this.

[C]

Point. And I think the, the conclusion that we've come to is that the, what you can trust are your local news. Yes, the newspapers are having such a hard time surviving, but any local news, newspaper or online newspaper is still trustworthy. Local news and television is still.

[A]

Trustworthy. And they're not stock prices owned by these massive multinational.

[C]

Corporations. They do answer to their consumers and people know them. They're their neighbors, their community leaders. They know everybody and they trust.

[E]

Them.

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[C]

The cozy Tommy John pajamas you're.

[F]

Buying? Paige desorbo they are Tommy John and yes, I'm stocking up because they make the best holiday.

[C]

Gifts. So.

[F]

Generous. Well, I'm a generous girly, especially when it comes to me. So I'm grabbing the softest sleepwear, comfiest underwear and best fitting.

[C]

Loungewear. So nothing for your.

[F]

Bestie? Of course I'm getting my dad Tommy.

[C]

John. Oh, and you, of course it's giving holiday gifting made.

[F]

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[G]

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[C]

Trading.

I'm so impressed, if I may, with your podcasts and the those who produce it because it's so clever and so smart and the whole.

[A]

Animated. Oh, when we do that, when we jump in with the voiceover, the RPG menu is what we call.

[C]

It. Nobody else does that.

[A]

Right? No. No one's weird or stoned enough to come up with that.

[C]

Device. Are they smoking Connie Chung.

[A]

Wee. That's right. We are still on the hunt for a fresh.

[C]

Crop. You can get it online, you know. Yeah. If you Google Connie Chung weed, it'll come up. And there's a wonderful description of.

[A]

Me. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Yeah. But I think for a time they were offering a five pack pre.

[A]

Roll. That's.

[C]

Right. For.

Like only $5 or something like.

[A]

That. It's an incredible.

[C]

Deal.

[A]

Yeah. An incredible.

[C]

Deal. I was, I, I couldn't believe that I.

[A]

Had. That you had, in fact, a potent strain with light green buds and flavors of earth and pine with a hazy head high. And of course, as we, as you, as we know, as any consumer of this show knows it's a good strain to wind down with at the end of the.

[C]

Night.

[A]

Yeah.

Has Maury Povich smoked some Connie.

[C]

Chuck?

Only because it's you, Pablo. I will tell you that.

Someone.

Crossed state lines and because I, you know, we can't, we can't order it online. That would not be.

[A]

Good. I mean, you'd never. What would they think. What would they think if polite society were to discover.

[C]

This? Exactly. Somebody crossed state lines and brought it to us. Just a little bit, teeny little bit. And that somebody was able to mix it in a. In a cigarette. Oh, yeah, right. So that it wasn't so potent.

And.

I can't do this. I can't tell you why.

[A]

Not. Now, I'm going to hold you to account. Why can't. Please allow me to dig into this. So far in my mental image, your husband, Maury Povich, is smoking a spliff of Connie Chung. Part tobacco, part you, and what's more like stoned on.

[C]

You. He. Okay, He's. He says, yeah, I don't, I don't want to do anymore. I mean, I. He took like one or two puffs.

And he went, yeah, I was turned off to it. I mean, and that. And I said, I don't feel anything. I feel nothing.

And so I said, I better take a few more tokes.

Then I started laughing.

I couldn't stop.

[A]

Laughing.

That feels like a bit of a metaphor for what has happened in this.

[C]

Episode.

[A]

Yeah. Maury said, I've had enough of this woman. You got it. The out. And you stayed here and got to laugh a lot with.

[C]

Me. You caught.

[A]

It. Connie Chung, the legend. The better half of Maury Povich, the scoundrel with the booming voice, who also happens to be undefeated in spades with me when playing against Nick Cannon.

It has been a pleasure to invade your personal.

[C]

Lives. Well, I, I take offense that you got the weed story out of me.

But it's only because it's you.

[A]

Pablo.

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production.

And I'll talk to you next.

[E]

Time.

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[C]

Apply. Hannah Berner Are those the cozy Tommy John pajamas you're.

[F]

Buying? Paige desorbo they are Tommy John and yes, I'm stocking up because they make the best holiday gifts so generous. Well, I'm a generous girly, especially when it comes to me. So I'm grabbing the softest sleepwear, comfiest underwear and best fitting.

[C]

Loungewear. So nothing for your.

[F]

Bestie? Of course I'm getting my dad Tommy John. Oh, and.

[C]

You? Of course it's giving holiday gifting made.

[F]

Easy. Exactly. Cozy, comfy, everyone's happy. Gift everyone on your list, including yourself with Tommy John and get 30% off site wide right now at tommyjohn.comfort.

[G]

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