Podcast Summary: "Meet the Most Feared Person in Silicon Valley"

Podcast: Pablo Torre Finds Out
Host: Pablo Torre
Guest: Lina Khan (former Chair of the Federal Trade Commission)
Date: June 17, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the career and impact of Lina Khan, the former Chair of the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and a polarizing figure in American politics and Silicon Valley. Host Pablo Torre guides a wide-ranging conversation with Khan about her journey to becoming the youngest FTC Chair, her approach to corporate regulation, bipartisan controversies, major antitrust cases, her critics and supporters (from Steve Bannon to Elon Musk), and how economic and legal power affects everyday life—including sports.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Who Is Lina Khan? (00:00–04:18)

• Introduction: Pablo addresses divided reactions to Khan’s visit, noting she is both revered and hated across the political spectrum.
• Bipartisan Criticism: Major tech and political figures, including Elon Musk, Mark Cuban, Republican and Democratic officials, have criticized Khan. However, she also has unlikely supporters, like Steve Bannon.
• Quote: “There is an almost inspiringly bipartisan coalition of people who hate her guts.” – Pablo Torre (01:26)

2. The FTC’s Purpose and Khan’s Mission (03:32–05:58)

• FTC Origins: Khan explains the FTC was established to guard against corporate abuse and enforce consumer protection and antitrust laws.
• Her Approach: She viewed her job as enforcing laws “without fear or favor,” pursuing corporate lawbreakers with the same vigor as small-time scammers.
• Quote: “...Even if we found that it was really big corporations breaking the law, that we didn’t think, oh, well, we have to go soft here.” – Lina Khan (05:31)

3. Career Path — From Would-be Journalist to Trust Buster (10:21–12:57)

• Early Aspirations: Khan wanted to be a journalist but entered law and policy via think tanks and Yale Law due to job market conditions post-financial crisis.
• The Seminal Paper: Her law review article, "Amazon's Antitrust Paradox," sparked the “hipster antitrust” movement and brought her national attention.
• Wall Street Journal’s Coverage: The Journal published at least 124 pieces about her, mostly critical.
• Memorable Moment: Pablo playfully asks if she keeps count of WSJ op-eds about her (12:59).

4. Unlikely Supporters & the Strange Bedfellows of Antitrust Politics (13:06–16:39)

• Steve Bannon’s Endorsement: Despite being a MAGA leader, Bannon publicly supports Khan’s methods, highlighting an unusual pro-regulation coalition crossing ideological lines.
• Bipartisanship: Khan notes that both Trump and Biden administrations continued and expanded antitrust efforts.

5. How Monopolies Affect Everyday Life (16:39–23:45)

• Big Pharma Example: Khan describes how patent “tricks” by pharmaceutical companies kept asthma inhaler prices high in the US, leading to significant consumer harm (16:59).
• FTC Interventions: Initiatives like fixing the McDonald’s ice cream machines via “right to repair” and regulating subscription cancellation (“click to cancel”) rules are discussed.
• Notable Quote: “Amazon even had a name for the cancellation process: Project Iliad, after the kind of epic tale of the war.” – Lina Khan (22:21)
• Widespread Subscription Frustration: Torre and Khan discuss deliberate obstacles to canceling subscriptions, highlighting the systemic nature of “inshittification” (08:28, 22:00).

6. The Challenge of Antitrust Enforcement (23:59–28:26)

• Red Tape and Delays: Antitrust cases, especially against big tech firms, take years due to complex procedures and intentional process slowdowns from deregulatory eras.
• Landmark Cases: Khan was instrumental in the suit against Meta (Facebook), targeting their acquisition of WhatsApp and Instagram as anti-competitive.

7. Tackling Fake Reviews and Junk Fees (28:26–30:41)

• New Rules: FTC’s rules against fake online reviews and undisclosed “junk fees” are now in effect for event tickets and short-term lodging.
• Consumer Impact: Khan cites personal stories received by the FTC, illustrating the broad impact on Americans' daily transactions.

8. The AI "Doomer" Question and Big Tech Power (30:41–34:41)

• On AI Fears: Khan pushes back on the idea that AI’s negative trajectory is inevitable, citing the need for public accountability in the stewardship of AI.
• Content Creator Concerns: She expresses worry that creative work is being exploited by AI systems, hurting creators’ incentives and economic security.

9. Personal Technology Use (34:41–35:21)

• Personal Experience: Khan shares she’s not an Amazon Prime member and rarely shops there. She used ChatGPT for contesting a medical bill, showing how deeply integrated these technologies have become in daily life.
• Lighthearted Moment: Pablo and Khan rate pediatric booger-sucking devices five stars (35:13).

10. Antitrust and Sports (35:21–41:18)

• NCAA and Athlete Pay: Khan explains the impact of antitrust law on college sports, referencing the Alston and House v. NCAA cases and new opportunities for student-athletes to unionize or be classified as employees.
• Cases Involving Michael Jordan and NASCAR: 2311 Racing (Jordan’s team) is part of an ongoing suit alleging NASCAR uses anti-competitive tactics.

11. The Reality of Sports Drafts and Non-Competes (41:18–43:00)

• Draft Legality: Khan points out how the lack of negotiation power for athletes entering professional sports seems “unfair,” raising questions about antitrust implications.
• Non-Compete Bans: The FTC under Khan moved to ban non-compete clauses, with implications for both athletes and everyday workers across industries.

12. The FTC’s Legacy & Politicized Transition (43:00–46:17)

• Political Pushback: Pablo notes coalesced calls for Khan’s ouster, her eventual removal, and the departure of allies like Commissioner Bedoya.
• Current FTC Direction: The new leadership is described as more partisan, less focused on core consumer issues—a concern for Khan (45:38).

13. The Future—Teaching and Movement-Building (46:17–48:40)

• Next Steps: Khan is turning to academia (teaching antitrust law), movement-building, and empowering a new generation to keep the “trust busting” spirit alive.
• Supreme Court Speculation: Khan brushes off the idea of a nomination with a political answer, focusing instead on policy and advocacy.

14. Final Thoughts and Light Metaphors (48:40–49:13)

• Metaphor: Pablo playfully compares Khan’s work cleaning up the American economy to “manually sucking boogers out of your child’s nose,” which she embraces with humor.
• Quote: “You made the joke before I got there. Lina Khan in a world of staggering inshittification.” – Pablo Torre (49:01)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You are referred to as the most feared person in Silicon Valley, the most hated person on Wall Street.”
  – Pablo Torre (04:18)
• “The job I had was to enforce the law without fear or favor.”
  – Lina Khan (04:52)
• “Amazon even had a name for the cancellation process. It was called Project Iliad, after the kind of epic tale of the war.”
  – Lina Khan (22:21)
• “How can I cancel bad government?”
  – Pablo Torre (28:28)
• “I think people just feel this basic indignity to that in big and small ways.”
  – Lina Khan on daily frustrations dealing with monopolistic corporations (19:18)
• “There is no inevitability here… I don’t think there’s any inevitability.”
  – Lina Khan on the future of AI (31:12)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic / Segment | |-----------|-----------------| | 00:00–01:56 | Introducing Lina Khan and her divisive reputation | | 03:32–05:58 | FTC mission and Khan’s philosophy | | 10:21–12:57 | Khan’s career path and Amazon paper | | 13:06–16:39 | Steve Bannon, bipartisanship and tech power politics | | 16:59–18:45 | Asthma inhaler case & patent abuses | | 21:14–23:45 | Subscriptions, click-to-cancel rule, Project Iliad | | 23:59–28:26 | Antitrust case delays, Meta litigation | | 28:26–30:41 | Fake reviews & junk fees regulation | | 30:41–34:41 | AI, monopoly fears, and creator rights | | 35:21–41:18 | Antitrust law affecting sports, NCAA, and Michael Jordan’s NASCAR suit | | 41:18–43:00 | Legality of sports drafts, non-competes in sports | | 43:00–46:17 | FTC’s political transition & partisan shifts | | 46:17–48:40 | Khan’s next steps, movement building, and teaching | | 48:40–49:13 | Lighthearted metaphors and episode close |

Closing Reflection

This episode offers a lively, in-depth reflection on Lina Khan’s tenure at the FTC and the complex, high-stakes world of antitrust in America. It is especially notable for showing how issues of corporate power affect everyone—from farmers dealing with John Deere equipment, to parents with broken ice cream machines, to college athletes, to those frustrated with endless subscription traps. Khan’s discussion, replete with dry humor, sharp legal analysis, and memorable real-world examples, offers a roadmap of both the promise and challenge of regulating American capitalism in the digital age.