Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: “Mercy for Sale: Inside Trump’s Pardon Machine”

Host: Pablo Torre
Guest: Brace Belden (TrueAnon)
Date: January 13, 2026

Episode Overview

In this incisive, darkly hilarious deep dive, Pablo Torre is joined by Brace Belden of the TrueAnon podcast to dissect the evolution of the presidential pardon into a wild marketplace under Donald Trump’s second term. Through biting anecdotes, revealing case studies, and candid interviews—including with former US Pardon Attorney Liz Oyer—the episode explores how the Trump administration’s approach to pardons has blurred the boundaries between justice, personal loyalty, profit, and spectacle. Torre and Belden connect disparate stories—from famous athletes to white-collar scammers, from lobbyist grifters to Mel Gibson’s guns—in exposing the unregulated, access-for-sale economy that now governs who receives mercy from the highest executive office.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pardons as “American Afterlife”: Philosophical Cold-Open & Setting the Stage

• Pablo Torre introduces the topic: the presidential pardon as “the closest thing our country offers to divine intervention, to an American afterlife of sorts for anybody who has committed federal crimes” (05:11).
• Brace riffs on religious exploration, equating getting into heaven with getting a pardon:

  “My number one goal is to get into heaven... I want to go to heaven, and I will figure out the best and easiest way to get there.” (04:07 – Brace Belden)

• The stage is set for an episode about power, forgiveness, and how those concepts are now bought and sold at unprecedented scale.

2. Trump’s Unprecedented Pardons: Numbers & Motivation

• Since March 2025, Trump has issued ~1600 pardons, many more than previous presidents in such a short time (08:05).
• Pablo’s Source: Lawyer close to Trump world reveals “cottage industry” of access-brokers and lobbyists selling legal forgiveness, with going rates in the seven and sometimes eight figures (10:50).
• Brace Belden: “It’s probably worth your money more to hire a cheap lawyer with access to Mar-a-Lago than an expensive lawyer who just hangs out in DC.” (19:07)
• Trump’s personal motivations, described as “addicted to pardoning people,” trace back to both grudge-settling and creating an aura of kinglike power.

3. Case Study - Daryl Strawberry: Symbol of the New Pardon Economy ([11:31–18:33])

• The former MLB star’s pardon—though his crimes were decades old—is traced to personal friendship connections:

  “‘I have a dear friend, Larry Glick, who works for his company...he said, ‘Oh, no, I’m going to talk to the president and I’m going to tell him that he needs to pardon Daryl Strawberry. You don’t have to do that.’” (16:46 – reading Strawberry interview)

• “It’s a social network,” Pablo observes (18:42), where access—not application, repentance, or need—matters.
• Memorable Quote:

  “It’s crazy to have your last name be Strawberry, by the way. It’s like being named Michael Pineapple or something.” (14:48 – Brace Belden)

4. The Institutional Breakdown: How the Pardon Attorney Was Sidelined

• Liz Oyer (Former US Pardon Attorney) explains the collapse of an impartial vetting process in favor of direct White House intervention (22:25–27:06).
• Her firing over refusal to help Mel Gibson regain his gun rights becomes a “Mel Gibson’s guns” subplot:

  “To the extent I have any legacy, it’s going to be a legacy that is associated with Mel Gibson...I just really hate that.” (22:43 – Liz Oyer)

• The process once emphasized risk, rehabilitation, and fairness; under Trump, it is replaced by personal connections and lobbying.

5. The Rise of “Eagle” Ed Martin: The New Pardon Gatekeeper ([27:17–35:04])

• Ed Martin, ultra-loyal Trump ally, becomes the new pardon attorney after Oyer’s ouster.
• Known for “no MAGA left behind” philosophy, direct connections to January 6 defendants, and grandstanding:

  “He’s a lawyer...but then I’m like, no, I think he’s actually like, a stupid guy that you would, like, meet on the street...” (33:04 – Brace Belden)

• Specific cases include:
  • Pardoning a Virginia sheriff who sold badges for cash,
  • Pardoning a Nevada politician who spent police memorial funds on plastic surgery (35:05 – Liz Oyer).

6. The Pardon Lobbyist Gold Rush: Wohl & Berkman, Profiteers of Access ([43:37–47:50])

• Disgraced far-right operatives Jacob Wohl and Jack Berkman now command nearly $1 million per retainer to lobby for pardons, despite criminal histories of their own (43:37–45:04).
• Their methods: manufacturing bogus scandals, robocalls to suppress the Black vote, faking FBI raids for social media clout.

  “In a just world, it would be illegal to give [Wohl and Berkman] money.” (43:42 – Brace Belden)

7. Pardons for Money: The Trevor Milton & CZ (Binance) Stories ([48:25–54:43])

• Trevor Milton (fraudulent Nikola CEO): $1.8M in Trump campaign donations, lawyers with Trump ties, and receives a pardon. Avoids $260M restitution just weeks after prosecutors begged for it.

  “What a deal...if I did owe a lot of money in restitution, I would put forth somebody to maybe talk to somebody in Trump world and be like, maybe a percent goes to a certain something and I don’t actually have to pay the full amount due to a pardon.” (51:03 – Brace Belden)

• Changpeng Zhao (CZ), Binance founder: Receives pardon through direct lobbying, massive “consulting” payments to a Trump family crypto fund, and leveraging hunting buddy connections.

  “Binance happened to establish business ties with a certain highly-profitable Trump family crypto venture called World Liberty Financial.” (53:54 – Pablo Torre)

8. Institutional Impotence: Can Anyone Stop This?

• Liz Oyer: Only 10 of 1600 pardons in Trump’s second term went through the Pardon Attorney—most are direct pipeline via insiders like Chaz McDowell, Susie Wiles, Roger Stone (38:17–41:50).
• No legal obstacles: “Super clear,” says Pablo. “As my Trump world source put it, Joe Biden could have done this too, but was fundamentally kept in line by shame and sleep.” (55:10)
• Congress could require more disclosure but hasn’t; lobbying payments operate in an opaque, regulatory vacuum (55:45 – Liz Oyer).

9. The Dark Absurdity of It All: Loyalty, Scamming, Pardons

• Pardons become rewards for political loyalty, money, or celebrity—not justice (56:22–57:37).
• The show ends with speculation on who might get pardoned next—Diddy refused, but could Ghislaine Maxwell or posthumous cases like Pete Rose be on deck?

  “All which is to say that the question now is: Who will Trump pardon next? Because there are some good candidates on the board.” (57:44 – Pablo Torre)

10. Surreal Closer: The Ghost of Pete Rose & Mel Gibson as Spiritual Lobbyist ([58:35–end])

• Pablo explains that even deceased baseball legend Pete Rose was promised a posthumous pardon after dying without one.

  “Unless you killed multiple people or raped or something, I feel like after you die you should be pardoned, you know?” (59:54 – Brace Belden)

• Brace suggests Rose, as a ghost, should “hire Mel Gibson” as his pardon lobbyist.

  “If ghost real, obviously possession is real. And you need to accompany Mel Gibson, drive drunk to Mar-a-Lago...and then get there and be like, you know what? Pete needs a pardon.” (61:28 – Brace Belden)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the new economics of mercy:

  “Right now under Donald Trump, people are hiring lawyers and lobbyists and paying them hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars to seek pardons...That is not normal in ordinary times.” — Liz Oyer (41:50)

• On the collapse of norms:

  “The pardon process has really closed off to ordinary people who can’t afford this special access. And it’s become a free-for-all.” — Liz Oyer (42:47)

• On Trump’s personal motivations:

  “He is addicted to pardoning people.” — Pablo Torre (08:02)

• On the surreal nature of pardon politics:

  “It boggles my mind how even a Trump partisan would be okay with this.” — Brace Belden (56:22)

• On institutional impotence:

  “There is no legal question. He can totally do it...the only mechanism that prevented Joe Biden from doing it...was fundamentally shame and sleep.” — Trump World Source (55:10)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:36: Brace’s religious wanderings and the lens of “divine intervention” for pardons
• 05:11–08:12: Introduction to the Trump pardon machine & ballooning numbers
• 11:31–18:33: The Daryl Strawberry case and pardon via social network
• 22:25–27:06: Liz Oyer on the hollowing-out of the Pardon Attorney’s office & Mel Gibson’s guns
• 27:17–35:04: The rise of Ed Martin (“Eagle Ed”), new gatekeeper of pardons
• 43:37–47:50: Jacob Wohl & Jack Berkman: From conspiracy grifters to high-priced pardon lobbyists
• 48:25–54:43: Pardon-for-money: Trevor Milton (Nikola) and CZ (Binance) stories
• 55:04–56:48: The legal and constitutional impotence to stop this
• 57:37–end: Who’s next? Pete Rose, Mel Gibson, and the farcical future of the pardon economy

Episode Tone

The episode is darkly comic, sardonic, and rapid-fire. Pablo and Brace trade irreverent asides (“It’s like being named Michael Pineapple”), pop culture analogies, and deadpan recaps of sordid legal drama. The absurdity of the stories is met not with outrage, but with world-weary amusement and gallows humor—a tone that deftly highlights just how far the concept of justice has drifted.

Summary

This episode cracks open the modern “pardon industry,” exposing a landscape where presidential mercy is just another asset for sale—one fraught with cronyism, profiteering, and unchecked executive power. Through storytelling, reporting, and caustic observation, Torre and Belden explore the transformation of clemency from a beacon of mercy to a transactional tool for those with money or proximity to power. Pardon has become post-legal, post-moral—a “get out of jail free” card for the connected, and a cynical punchline for everyone else.

Whether or not you’ve followed the headline cases, this episode’s stories—and the world-weary, mischievous banter—will stick with you. It’s not just about Trump. It’s about the American system’s vulnerabilities when law, shame, and public trust are left behind.