Mr. President’s Mind: How Shane Battier Learned to Lead (and Shut the F*** Up)

Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out: Mr. President’s Mind: How Shane Battier Learned to Lead (and Shut the F* Up)**
Release Date: June 5, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Mr. President’s Mind: How Shane Battier Learned to Lead (and Shut the F*** Up)," host Pablo Torre delves deep into the multifaceted career and personal journey of former NBA player Shane Battier. This episode, enriched with candid conversations and insightful anecdotes, sheds light on Battier's leadership style, his struggles with mental health, and his unique experiences both on and off the basketball court.

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The "No Stats" All-Star

[00:52] Pablo Torre:
Shane Battier introduces himself by highlighting his reliance on traditional methods over digital ones, reminiscing about his trusted Muji pen and notebooks for jotting down thoughts and maxims.

[02:00] Pablo Torre:
He begins with a provocative quote from Mike Krzyzewski (Coach K) referring to Battier as "an alien," setting the tone for a discussion about Battier's unconventional approach to basketball.

[03:12] Shane Battier:
Reflecting on his time at Duke, Battier describes Coach K as someone who could "peer into your soul and know what button to push," emphasizing the profound personal connection and mentorship he received.

[08:18] Shane Battier:
Battier addresses the impact of Michael Lewis's article, "The No Stats All-Star," explaining how it initially brought mixed emotions but ultimately validated his approach to the game. He states, "That's how I was from kindergarten all the way to my last day in the NBA. So I'm very proud of that moniker."

[10:05] Pablo Torre:
Quoting Daryl Morey, President of the 76ers and a guest on PTFO, Torre describes Battier as someone who "excels in" intellect and advanced metrics, further solidifying Battier's reputation as a cerebral player.

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Facing Elite Competition

[10:22] Shane Battier:
Battier reminisces about his rookie year, guarding some of the NBA's greatest talents like Kobe Bryant, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen. He shares, "I was guarding Iverson, I'm guarding Paul Pierce, I'm guarding Ray Allen, I'm guarding Kobe."

[12:15] Shane Battier:
Discussing his defensive strategy against players like Kobe Bryant, Battier explains his goal: "Just be the human yellow light," meaning he aimed to slow down superstars without necessarily stopping them entirely.

[14:05] Pablo Torre:
Torre probes whether Battier's defensive approach is teachable, to which Battier responds by highlighting the importance of understanding shot efficiency and leading opponents to take more difficult shots.

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Leadership and Cultural Change

[17:44] Pablo Torre:
Battier opens up about his early life in Detroit, describing the challenges of growing up as a mixed-race child in a poor neighborhood. He shares how these experiences forged his competitive spirit: "When I help my friends win, I'm just the kid who helped my friends win. So I'm going to do whatever it takes."

[20:01] Shane Battier:
Battier recounts a pivotal moment during a "players-only meeting" with the Memphis Grizzlies, where his candid criticism of team leadership was met with hostility. This incident humbled him and taught him the importance of earning credibility within a team: "I couldn't come in here guns a blazing because there's kind of like an ethos and a creed and kind of an unspoken locker room path you got to take to earn credibility."

[22:29] Pablo Torre:
Discussing culture change, Battier emphasizes that it isn't about grand speeches but the accumulation of small, subtle actions: "It's the unmeasurable. It's the unmeasurable."

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Defining Moments and Memorable Games

[24:23] Shane Battier:
The conversation shifts to a historic game in June 2012, where Battier played for the Miami Heat in a high-stakes Eastern Conference Finals against the Boston Celtics. Battier reflects on the intense pressure and the team's strategy to rely on star players like LeBron James: "He was very calm that day."

[26:16] Pablo Torre:
Battier describes LeBron James's performance in that game, highlighting James's dominance with "45 points, 19 of 26 shooting" and how it solidified his status in the NBA: "I think Jordan dragged me across the finish line. And that is my story, and I'm sticking to it."

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Struggles Beyond the Court

[29:20] Shane Battier:
Battier opens up about his final year in the NBA, detailing feelings of embarrassment and isolation after being sidelined in critical moments: "When you retire, you don't know. This is all I knew. That's all I knew."

[32:07] Pablo Torre:
He discusses the impact of losing his basketball identity, leading to emotional struggles and strained relationships: "I was emotionally unavailable and I was hurt and I was pissed off."

[34:11] Pablo Torre:
The conversation touches on the delicate balance between athletic prowess and personal well-being: "Extremity in any fashion also implies a certain imbalance. If you're not extraordinarily careful."

[36:12] Shane Battier:
Battier reflects on his journey through therapy, emphasizing the importance of relationships and authenticity: "It's all relationships, and it's being authentic in your relationships."

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Unforgettable Experiences Off the Court

[37:06] Shane Battier:
One of the most entertaining segments recounts Battier's unexpected invitation to play basketball with President Barack Obama. Battier humorously describes the experience, including a memorable karaoke mishap: "I get up on stage and so I start singing. You know, she was more like a movie queen from across the scene. And all of a sudden, the words just cut out."

[42:22] Pablo Torre:
They delve into the cultural significance of such an event, blending sports, politics, and personal quirks: "You both met the president. You both love running."

[44:49] Pablo Torre:
Battier shares another lighthearted moment involving Daryl Morey and a musical performance to raise funds for Battier's foundation: "I love that he put on the pink Linda dress. So that's an event called BadOKi that we held in Houston, held in Miami. It raises money for my foundation, the Baddy A Take Church foundation."

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Conclusion and Reflections

[35:00] Pablo Torre:
Battier concludes by reflecting on his journey, emphasizing personal growth and the importance of fostering meaningful relationships: "So, like, that's what I would have done. I would have done a better job of fostering relationships and allowing people who I care about to help me along the way."

[47:45] Shane Battier:
The episode wraps up on a humorous note, with Battier expressing his appreciation for Pablo Torre: "Pablo, you're my man. I can't wait to do paternity with you."

Key Takeaways and Insights

• Leadership Through Intelligence: Battier's approach to leadership and defense in basketball emphasizes intelligence, advanced metrics, and strategic thinking over raw athleticism.

• Cultural Impact: His ability to influence team culture subtly highlights the importance of small actions in driving significant change.

• Personal Struggles: Battier's honest discussion about his mental health struggles post-retirement offers valuable insights into the challenges athletes face when transitioning out of their sports careers.

• Unique Experiences: From playing pickup games with President Obama to hosting the Chinese version of SNL, Battier's off-court experiences showcase his diverse interests and charismatic personality.

• Importance of Relationships: Battier underscores the significance of building and maintaining authentic relationships as a cornerstone for personal and professional growth.

Notable Quotes

• Shane Battier on Coach K:
  "Coach K can peer into your soul and know what button to push." ([03:12])

• Battier on the "No Stats" Moniker:
  "That's how I was from kindergarten all the way to my last day in the NBA. So I'm very proud of that moniker." ([08:31])

• Battier on Overcoming Isolation:
  "It's all relationships, and it's being authentic in your relationships." ([36:12])

• Battier Reflecting on Leadership:
  "I've been through the fire. And there was a trust." ([24:48])

• Battier on Emotional Resilience:
  "I detached myself from the outcome. I didn't care if a guy made a shot or not. I really didn't." ([14:29])

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Final Thoughts

This episode of "Pablo Torre Finds Out" offers an in-depth exploration of Shane Battier's life, balancing his professional achievements with personal challenges. Through candid conversations and rich storytelling, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of what it takes to lead, adapt, and thrive both on the hardwood and beyond.

For more episodes and insights, follow Pablo Torre on YouTube, Instagram, X, and subscribe to his newsletter.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're going to find out what this sound is right after this ad.

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[Pablo Torre]

I love when a guest has a notebook. I do.

[Shane Battier]

I feel like such a boomer. I mean, I. I'm getting old. I'm 46 years old. I forget things. But if I write it down, I have notebooks upon notebooks of. Of just maxims and quotes. If I put it in my phone, it's gone.

[Pablo Torre]

And you have the good kind of pen too, by the way, that fin.

[Shane Battier]

Oh, the. The. The Muji pen. Not a new pen. That's right.

[Pablo Torre]

That's veteran savvy.

[Shane Battier]

The finer things in life.

[Pablo Torre]

But I wonder if you've used that Muji pen to write down at any point. The quote I wanted to actually start with.

[Shane Battier]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

Which is, of course, from Mike Shashevsky, Coach K, head coach of your Duke Blue doubles, who said this quote, Shane was an alien. I wanted at the end of his career to crack his head open and see if he was really human. End quote.

[Shane Battier]

I think that's a compliment, Pablo. I was psycho. I was a. A psycho. A psychotic, neurotic person in my time at Duke.

[Commentator]

And great steal by Forte. He'll go for two.

[Shane Battier]

No.

[Commentator]

What a play. That's one of the great defensive players you'll ever see right there, baby.

[Shane Battier]

When Coach K recruited me, I was part of a very talented recruiting class. Number one class in the country. Elton Brand. William Avery. Yeah, right. Chris Burgess.

[Pablo Torre]

I grew up watching you Guys, right?

[Shane Battier]

And we were going to a team that had, you know, at the time, 10 McDonald's all Americans. We had 10. 10. Which is crazy. So you say, like, why would you go to a team that has 10 McDonald's all Americans? And Coach K. People always ask me, like, what's so great about Coach K? Coach K can peer into your soul and know what button to push.

[Commentator]

Finding the heart of the team is huge. I call it a spirit. He has a different spirit. Once we get him in our program, I have to give him some more latitude where he feels comfortable in instinctively following that spirit.

[Shane Battier]

He knew this when I was in high school. So he came into my living room and he said, you know, hey, Shane, I'm not going to promise you playing time. I'm not going to promise you shots. I'll promise you one thing, the opportunity to earn playing time every single day. And if you're good enough to play. So he had me hook, line, a sinker. And I'm like, I'm gonna show you. I'm gonna show you and I'm gonna make you play me.

[Pablo Torre]

You're gonna stab people's eyeballs with that fine ballpoint Muji pen.

[Shane Battier]

I would. I would have. I would have. I used to throw up before every game.

[Another Commentator]

Every game.

[Shane Battier]

Every game. My. My freshman year, I started, and literally, I'm going out to the jump ball circle. I'm so anxious. I want to play well so bad. I would run back to the. Run back to the bench, grab a gator, throw up in it, throw it back out, and then they toss the ball.

[Another Commentator]

And just to be extra clear about this, Shane Battier barfing his ambitions into a towel before every game as a 6 foot 8 Duke freshman was a thing that pretty much everybody who cared about him found intensely unsettling, I am told. And this was true of his college girlfriend, who was now his wife. And it was true of then Duke assistant coach Quinn Snyder was now the head coach of the Atlanta Hawks, although there was one notable exception.

[Shane Battier]

I think Coach K loved it because he's like, it matters to him. He cares. But Quinn Steiner was like, this is not healthy. You cannot do this. And so he literally would, like, breathe with me.

[Pablo Torre]

Breathe?

[Shane Battier]

Yeah, breathe. He exchange. Breathe, breathe, breathe.

[Another Commentator]

But when it comes to barf, the first thing that I personally think about when I think about Shane, whose brain, by the way, not unlike Coach K, I also plan to just crack open here is a different liquid. And it dates back to the first time that I ever met Shane, which was at a bar during the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference about maybe a decade ago, which would be around sometime after he played pickup with Barack Obama, which we'll discuss. And probably also around when he was just winning championships with LeBron James, who would call Shane, quote, the number one smartest basketball player and person I've been around, end quote. But that night during that conference, Shane Battier introduced me to something else.

[Shane Battier]

It's a magical mixture of alcohol that was introduced to me by my teammate in Miami, Greg Oden, who learned this drink from Beast Mode himself, which is totally on brand. And that drink is called Petronice.

[Another Commentator]

And what I found out that night is that Petrenessy is exactly what you think it is and exactly what Marshawn lynch apparently envisioned. Half patron, half Hennessy. Which is why I also found out that drinking patronessy made me feel like Shane Battier during his freshman year.

[Shane Battier]

And so we were bonded from that moment on. I mean, you look at me, I look at you, and the first thought is patronessy.

[Another Commentator]

And just to clarify here, by the way, I did not grow up dreaming of a bond with this man. As I said, I grew up watching Shane take charges, slap floors, become a champion at Duke am, the national player of the year and a three time defensive player of the year. But he went to Duke. And after the Memphis Grizzlies, the God awful Memphis grizzlies drafted Shane sixth overall in 2001. I mostly forgot about him. I think most people did. But in 2009, no less than Michael Lewis wrote a seminal article about Shane Battier for the New York Times Magazine. And this article had an unforgettable headline, the no stats All Star. Because Shane at this point was a 30 year old glue guy, a nerdy glue guy grinding away for the Houston Rockets. And what Michael Lewis basically did was make the case for why this relatively minor character who had this vomitously maniacal devotion to defense, to frustrating the most unstoppable scorers in the world, actually represented the modern evolution of sports culture writ large. Shane was analytical. He avoided taking two point shots because of their inefficiency.

[Shane Battier]

And also when the story first came out, I had mixed emotions, I'm not gonna lie.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, you see the headline?

[Shane Battier]

Yeah, it's like it's, it's, it's the biggest, like backhanded compliment you can get. You know, it's, it's Michael Lewis.

[Pablo Torre]

So like Michael, you know, Mr. Moneyball.

[Shane Battier]

That article has generated, you know, a lot of money for me over the years. You know, my speaking career and podcast he's so like, I, it was my opus and I would not be here without Michael. And so at the time when you're, you know, I was still, what, probably eight years into my career, you know, I still thought I was a really good player and, and more than just like a glue guy. But now I love it and now I love that. That's my, that's my reputation. That was always authentically who I was. Right? So like Lewis hit it right in the head. That's. That's how I was from kindergarten all the way to my last day in the NBA. So I'm very proud of that moniker. It's super nerdy, but I'm nerdy, so it's all good.

[Pablo Torre]

The embedded sort of premise of the no stats all Star is that in ways that cannot be actually quantified but can be begun to be detected by the most advanced metrics. So it's really the advanced math all Star more than it is the no stats all star.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah, yeah, good point.

[Pablo Torre]

I want to just quote the thing about you that Daryl Morey, who is now of course president of the 76ers, a fellow PTFO guest, as is Michael Lewis. This is all very incestuous. I want to just quote Daryl Darrell says quote, I call him Lego when he's on the court. All the pieces start to fit together and everything that leads to winning that you can get to through intellect. Instead of innate ability Shane excels in, I'll bet he's in the hundredth percentile of every category. So again, familiar, compliment, insult, sort of like layer cake.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Instead of innate ability, you know, there was something that you were great at that was kind of ineffable. Give us the, the sort of like the, the, the gallery of people that Shane Badier had to puke into his towel to sort of contemplate defending the house of horrors.

[Shane Battier]

And the best thing that happened to me my rookie year was I played two guard. So here I am out there, I'm guarding Iverson, I'm guarding Paul Pierce, I'm guarding Ray Allen, I'm guarding Kobe.

[Commentator]

The ball comes in, Kobe's got it above the three point line, taking a little bit of time. One dribble.

[Shane Battier]

And they kicked my ass my rookie year. But I learned, you know, I learned so much. I learned so much. I learned angles, I learned how to use my height, I learned how to be physical. And that was the best instructor for me. And so look, I, I took a great pride in, in catching all those guys. Carmelo.

[Commentator]

It's Carmelo. Against Padier. This defense has been a story. Patty is defense that is against Carmelo. Inside KD drives on Vallier throws it.

[Shane Battier]

Down, Kevin Durant, you name it. I played against the, the greatest players of my generation and I miss that anxiety. All right, Garden. Kobe Bryant is scary. I never will forget the feeling of getting on the bus the Marina del Rey Writz and It's like a 45 minute ride to Staples Center. I'm just thinking to myself this guy's trying to embarrass me. Like I, I know, like I know he's just like, he's lathered right now and he wants to score 80 points on me tonight. Like, and so like that anxiety was real, right? And so I, I call it productive paranoia. Instead of being like paralyzing, I use that to be like man, I better know everything about Kobe that there is to know about him. And so that, like that like I, I tried to learn and threw myself in the data analytics and, and just learn Kobe better than Kobe knew himself.

[Commentator]

On Kobe Bryant following the game plan, the strategy, contesting every shot, not giving him a wide open look, fighting through screens. You talk about when he goes up, you go up. As a defender doing an outstanding job of not surrendering an inch. Shane B says, hey, I stay the course.

[Shane Battier]

And it allowed me to, to stay in the game. And I understood, okay, I'm not going to stop these guys, but I can be a human yellow light and slow them down a little bit. And that was my only goal. Just be the human yellow light.

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[Pablo Torre]

The whole thing of like, I'm gonna slow you down, but I know I'm not gonna stop you. Yeah, right. When it came to why these guys, as much as they would talk about how, you know, we're not afraid of shame. Badier.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah. Does it feel different facing this team with Badier gone? You guys had a lot of classic matchups throughout the years. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess, I.

[Pablo Torre]

Guess the stats actually indicate like, yo, the.

[Another Commentator]

You.

[Pablo Torre]

You slowed down.

[Shane Battier]

I wasn't bad.

[Pablo Torre]

You slowed down at the yellow light.

[Shane Battier]

As it turned out. As it turned out, it was. It wasn't half bad.

[Pablo Torre]

Is there an element of this that is teachable?

[Shane Battier]

Yeah, because I, I had the answer to the test before I took it. Like in the NBA, everyone overestimates how good of a 20 foot jump shooter they are. A 20 foot jump shot is a really hard shot to shoot, especially if you dribble once. That's like a 40 shot. That's a tough shot. And people will argue with me, oh, no, it's part of the game. We can't. No, that is a hard shot for even the best player, unless your name is Steph Curry or Kevin Durant. All right. Devin Booker. And the one thing that, you know, I was able to do that a lot of people can't do, I detached myself from the outcome. I didn't, I didn't care. I didn't care if a guy made a shot or not. I really didn't. I cared where they took that shot. And I knew if they took the shot in the wrong area, in the area where they, they struggled the most, given enough time, sample size, they would beat themselves. And so I just had to like, sort of lead them to that, that conclusion. And so you can teach somebody kind of the squares in the court where it's just hard to make a shot.

[Commentator]

A 2 over Battier rebound by Bynum. Relentless pressure. He's going to put that on you every single possession.

[Shane Battier]

And you know what, you got to.

[Commentator]

Give Shane Batty a lot of credit.

[Pablo Torre]

When you look back at how you got to be this way, that's the part where I'm like, I don't know if you can really teach that.

[Shane Battier]

Look, I grew up in a middle class part of Detroit, all right? I was very poor. You know, the roof leaked when it rained. I remember what a government cheese sandwich tasted like. I had patches on my jeans and all my clothes. Like we had like no money. You know, I learned the phrase Rob Peter to pay Paul, like when I was in kindergarten, right? We were very, very poor. I was the only kid in town that had a black dad and a white mom. So in elementary school, of 500 kids, I was the only black kid. Okay, I got a pick on picture day, Everyone else got a comb, okay? On Martin Luther King day, I was expecting to know everything about black culture from the dawn of civilization. And I was a foot taller than everybody else, okay? So I was the kid who had always had to carry a birth certificate with him at the little league game. So, like, I was an outcast wherever I went. So I was mixed, tall and poor. The only place I really felt at home was at recess and playing kickball and playing dodgeball and playing basketball and baseball, all the sports. And I realized, like, when I help my friends win, like, I'm not, I'm no longer the poor kid, the mixed kid, the tall kid, all right? I'm just the kid who helped my friends win. So I didn't, I didn't care, like, about what I did or how I looked. What all I cared about is, did we win? And did I help my, my friends win? So I'm going to, I'm going to do whatever it takes. I'm do whatever it takes to make sure my friends look good and that we win. I took that lesson from kindergarten. So it was born out of desperation. It was born out of just, I want to be loved. I want to be accepted. And it's, it's, that's what put the dog in me to, to just be just intense and paranoid and all those things.

[Pablo Torre]

I find that a big learning that people hopefully have had about the nerd as a creature in American life is that the nerd can be among the most competitive people you've ever imagined.

[Shane Battier]

Oh, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

The guy who, and again, this is me fact checking as a journalist. The guy who had a subscription to Laptop Magazine.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah, I'm, I'm a gadget.

[Pablo Torre]

But, you know, there was a magazine called Laptop Magazine. I mean, this is just depth that I, I, I'm obviously somebody who is. This is a judgment free zone. But I didn't know there was a Laptop magazine.

[Shane Battier]

We share an insatiable curiosity.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Shane Battier]

And that, that, like, yes. Knowing your story, that was my secret power. I was so scared that there's the answer is out there. I just haven't found it yet. And so, yeah, I subscribed to Laptop Magazine because they had all these new gadgets come out, and I said, oh, like, maybe this could be the answer, like, to change my life, right? Again, that was my superpower in the NBA. Like, I don't know how to guard Kobe Bryant. Like, well, maybe if I, If I learn this about him, like, it'll help me.

[Pablo Torre]

But the whole idea of, like, winning over a room, right, which is embedded in the premise of culture, which is to say that, like, it needs buy in. You need to convert people to the thing that you revere.

[Shane Battier]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

How hard was that for you? In these locker rooms, when I go.

[Shane Battier]

To the Grizzlies, they had the lowest winning percentage of the four North American professional sports leagues. Okay? They had a 20 winning percentage. They won one out of every five games in the. The history of their. For the franchise. Okay, so you talk about a franchise that had, like, no idea how to win. This is the Grizzlies. So we lose our first 10 games, you know, we're on a bad team. I think we're like 2 and 15.

[Commentator]

Their style has not been good. They have stumbled along the way. They have not had the productivity out of their scores. They have been passive at the point, and they've lost 11 in a row. A lot of work to be done here in Memphis.

[Shane Battier]

Recall, like, the, the most overhyped, overused term in pro sports, the players only locker room meeting.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, God, it's the worst. I want to. I. I've. I've been fascinated by this ritual. Why? Okay, so explain. For those not familiar with why this is a thing, please explain the thing.

[Shane Battier]

So players only meeting only happens when you're, you know, you're getting heat from the media. The fans are on you. All right, look, you know, you're not playing well. Okay? So, you know, all the movies, you know, say, you know, you know, the captains, the veterans, they call a players only meeting. We're going to air our grievances and we're going to have a kumbaya moment, and that's going to propel us to, To. To better performance. Okay? And so during this particular locker room meeting, you know, here I am, you know, full of righteousness coming from Duke, the coach KOA Yep. And I'm the first one to stand up. And I say, you know, I gotta be honest. The veteran leadership on this team sucks. Very honest, very direct. And they said, hey, Duke boy, shut the up. Go sit in the corner. Who are you? And I was just like, oh, man, I did not read the room. It humbled me. And I realized, like, man, I. I can't come in here guns a blazing because there's kind of like an ethos and a creed and kind of an unspoken locker room path you got to take to earn credibility. And I hadn't done that to that point. And so I shut my ass. I went to work, right? But I didn't become cynical. I didn't become jaded. I wouldn't allow that locker room to change me. So I kept working. And a funny thing happened. Like, the guys who maybe were on the fence and didn't know how to act and how to win started to have, like. Like winning attitudes and, like, winning behaviors. And all of a sudden, like, you can kind of feel the. The locker room kind of kind of shift a little bit, and we started to believe a little bit. And Kubie Brown comes in. The next year, we start winning some games.

[Commentator]

Memphis, now 26 and 31 since that over 13 start. The team that was once an easy out now holds the key in the Western Conference playoff race.

[Shane Battier]

It was pretty awesome to be part of. I'd never been part of, like, a culture change. Yeah, per se.

[Pablo Torre]

But this is a mythical concept of, like, how do you change culture? The thing that every business is going to have to grapple with at some point, if they meet, what is more likely than not, which is failure.

[Shane Battier]

Yep. It's not the rah rah speeches, all right? It's not the sayings on the wall. It's the small, subtle acts that most people don't even pay mind to. It's the unmeasurable. It's the unmeasurable.

[Another Commentator]

Which is all to say that there are these inflection points in Shane Battier's life when he has had to decide whether it is time for him to take the microphone or not. And this can be a difficult political exercise for somebody who loves karaoke as much as Shane Battier does, as much as.

[Pablo Torre]

As.

[Another Commentator]

We need to explain in a bit, but this takes us to a moment for now on the court, when the human yellow light wasn't actually trying to slow down a superstar, because it was June 2012 and Shane was playing for the Miami Heat. And the Miami Heat, for those not familiar, fetishized culture more than any other team in sports, as our own Ryan Cortez will gladly tell you. And it's to the point where the Heat would go on to later hire Shane as an executive. But on this June evening in 2012, what Shane Battier was mostly trying to do was just not get in the way of one of his fellow starters. The issue, however, was that LeBron James, one of the best scorers ever, obviously, who was now being given the greenest possible light, had won zero titles at this point. Speaking of measurables, LeBron had joined Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami, only to be humiliated by Dallas in the finals the year before this. And so here the heat were in 2012, overhyped and trailing in one of the most tense Eastern Conference finals in memory. And they were about to be eliminated by their most hated rival.

[Commentator]

Welcome to Boston. And a sold out TD Garden. It's game six of the East.

[Shane Battier]

They're saying, look, there's no way the Heat are going to win this game.

[Commentator]

Boston with a three to two edge and a chance to move on.

[Pablo Torre]

David slaying Goliath.

[Shane Battier]

Yes. We know if we lose game six, this is like maybe the most failed experiment, the most highly publicized failed experiment. And there's blood on everybody's hands.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. And by the way, there's just salivating from everybody who talks about sports.

[Another Commentator]

You guys are villains.

[Pablo Torre]

You guys are Goliath again. That's the other key part of this, is that it's. What does Goliath do to save his own ass?

[Shane Battier]

They drove the hearse to TD bank arena that night. But, like, before that game, there wasn't like a huge rah rah speech. It was just like, look, we just got to be ourselves. We've been through the fire. And there was a trust.

[Pablo Torre]

What was LeBron like? Because this is now in. In terms of his character of study, the LeBron game.

[Another Commentator]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And also like adding an inflection. Exactly.

[Shane Battier]

An inflection. That was the inflection point for his entire hall of Fame career.

[Pablo Torre]

The story of his life is so different.

[Shane Battier]

If that game goes differently, different, no one know. No one realizes that. And so, like, of anybody, LeBron knows, like, he has the most at stake. Yes, the most. Yes, the most. And so, like, he was very calm that day.

[Pablo Torre]

He didn't say into a towel.

[Shane Battier]

No, no. But like, let me tell you what, when that has that look, man, let's go. It's like when Adam turns into he. Man, I have the power. There's almost like an aura around him. We're just like, oh, my gosh, this is unbelievable.

[Commentator]

James comes flying in and throws it down. He's got 27 first half points.

[Pablo Torre]

I remember watching this game.

[Shane Battier]

Oh.

[Pablo Torre]

And imagining what must it be like to be around him in this moment.

[Shane Battier]

You didn't talk about it. You didn't look at him. You're just like, I don't want to jinx it here at the TD Garden.

[Commentator]

30 in the first half. These are all second half. The one Foot step back and then the little floater as he posts up Rondo at the elbow. And then the 17 foot catch that jab step, jump shot game.

[Shane Battier]

And so we win the game and you win big. We win big.

[Pablo Torre]

By the way, like curb stomping, suffocation big.

[Shane Battier]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

Because the final score is 98 to 79.

[Shane Battier]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

LeBron for the record, right? Do you remember his stat line, cuz? 45, 45 minutes, 45 points. 19 of 26. Yeah, 19 of 26.

[Shane Battier]

Ridiculous.

[Pablo Torre]

Also, by the way, 15 rebounds, throwing five assists. You know, casually.

[Shane Battier]

I mean, the greatest game I've ever seen anybody play.

[Pablo Torre]

It's a hard argument to beat.

[Shane Battier]

It was given the stakes, given the gravity of the situation, given like the, the, the historical implications. Historical.

[Pablo Torre]

We're going to be arguing Jordan versus LeBron forever. And this game is the reason why it's plausible.

[Shane Battier]

I'm. I'm always going with LeBron for a simple reason. For simple reason.

[Pablo Torre]

Is it because you scored eight points that game?

[Shane Battier]

LeBron did something twice that Jordan I don't think could have done once. He won two NBA titles with Shane Battier as a starting power forward. No way. No way Jordan, no way Jordan could have done that. As great as Jordan was, LeBron dragged me across the finish line.

[Pablo Torre]

The albatross had never been so heavy.

[Shane Battier]

And that, that is. That's my story. And I'm sticking to it.

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[Pablo Torre]

Now that we've gone through one of the the glorious chapters, do you remember the most humiliated you ever felt in the league?

[Shane Battier]

My. My last year. My last year. When I was told, without being told, that our best chance of winning doesn't Include you, Shane. When, you know, SPO started to sit mean in the fourth quarter, nothing was worse to me than sitting me in crunch time. That like, that's, that was my identity and it hurt me to my core. And that's when I knew I was done. I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed and I checked out. And I was cynical. And so when I retired, I was very cynical and so I was sad, but I was also very cynical.

[Pablo Torre]

What does cynicism mean at this point in your trajectory?

[Shane Battier]

I shut people out. I was probably, probably battling some depression. I didn't know what depression was. I never had this feeling before, but feeling very isolated. I didn't feel anyone understood what I was going through. I felt very alone and I pushed people away. I pushed my wife away, I pushed my kids away. And I just was a jerk. And I wasn't like doing destructive things. It wasn't like I was drinking every night, but I was, I was just. I was emotionally unavailable and I was hurt and I was pissed off and I had all these emotions I had never associated with basketball. And it was a big mistake to go work for espn. I was really bad on tv. You could probably go on awful announcing and say, oh, we're going to.

[Pablo Torre]

We're going to. We're going to find some Shane Battier. I was lowlights.

[Shane Battier]

I had, I had zero passion for it. Zero. Congratulations. Your father was a great point guard for the Russian national team. What has he meant to your career? Oh, I think now he watched. He was this. He was draft like a lot of emotions, emotion they have so same like me. Well, that's great.

[Pablo Torre]

But at this point in our episode.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Everybody listening understands how insane that is.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

That you guy. They've been listening to tell stories with this level of alacrity.

[Shane Battier]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

Couldn't do that because of this internal. Was it. Was it, Was this the hearse? Was this finally you being like, I guess I gotta get in this thing now?

[Shane Battier]

I, I was chasing relevance. When you retire, like you don't know. This is, this is all I knew. That's all I knew. 30 years. Right. I had purpose every day. I had the scoreboard above me and told me where I was. All right. I love my teammates. I love being part of a team. Right. The money was great. You know, I, I had status. I had all these things that like, like people are chasing these things in their professional life. I had it checked every box. So to not have that when you wake up one day because you don't have the jersey, you don't have the locker room. You don't have the purpose. Scary. Yeah, I was. I was terrified. I was terrified.

[Pablo Torre]

There's one quote that I remember you giving at what point? And it was, if you had filet mignon every single night, you'd stop tasting it.

[Shane Battier]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

Which is to say that even though you missed so actively the thing that you weren't doing anymore, it felt like by the end, also, your. Your ability to enjoy it was also changing, which is an interesting tension of, like, missing something that wasn't even the thing that for you was anymore.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a weird. It's a weird feeling. It was a weird. It was a weird time. I went through a lot of who am I? Who am I? My identity was so tied to basketball. It was tied to the no stat, all star stuff.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Shane Battier]

Right. So, like, I. In a lot of ways, I felt like I was an actor in my own life that I had to only take, like, I couldn't turn it over. I couldn't take two point shots because I talked about it. No, literally.

[Pablo Torre]

So I. I get it.

[Shane Battier]

So I felt like, almost like I was playing this role of this guy and we talk about authenticity, and I. I played it to the best of my ability. But I question, like, who the heck am I? What am I about? Like, what am I doing? What am I doing? And, you know, going to ESPN and being terrible at it, and that disaster of a year didn't help. And so, you know, I'd never been to therapy. My wife, you know, of 22 years, when we met in seventh grade, said, look, Shane, I know you like optionality. Here's three options you can, you know, here's the number to the Marriott, here's the number to your attorney, and here's this number to this life coach, SL psychologist that comes very highly recommended. I said, heidi, I'm a very smart man. I'm gonna choose door three. And so I had to unpack a lot of crap that I just didn't deal with because I was so driven. I was. I was throwing. I was too busy throwing up. I was too busy grinding and. And just like, pursuing whatever it was in the basketball career that I did not give time to. And, like, not healthy at all. Know I was not stable.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, this is the other thing about, like, having a superpower in any way. Right. Is that there is an implication that, man, look at this gift. But the more I learn about sports, the more I realize that extremity in any fashion also implies a certain imbalance. If you're not extraordinarily careful.

[Shane Battier]

100%. And I don't. I would. I do things differently. I don't know. That's the thing. I know it wasn't healthy, but, like, I never had a. Like a sports psychologist when I play because I was so scared of anyone getting inside this and taking away my superpower.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Shane Battier]

Which was like, my IQ and my ability to read and react. I'm like, I don't. I don't need to be thinking. I don't need to be, you know, emotive here. I just need to be, like, a great defender and make open shots and, like.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Shane Battier]

I'll deal with it later.

[Pablo Torre]

The standard of success is not a health. It is. Are we winning?

[Shane Battier]

Are we winning? Am I still here? And so I don't know what I would have done differently.

[Pablo Torre]

Did you get a sense that when you went to therapy that your psychologist was like, I know exactly the type of person you are, or were they saying something that was.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah, I don't think I was out of the ordinary for a retired athlete. I think every athlete goes through some version of this, some form or fashion. And the longer you're in the game, the more work you gotta do. Right. And I describe it as. And I think this is. This befalls any. Any person of success, all right? But especially young people, you know, entertainers or people who win the first third of your life, right. When you're identified as a young talent or even an old talent, you know, you're told you're great, you know, and if you show any vulnerability, guess what? We're going to take your dream and give it to that person because they don't show any weakness. So what do you do? You start building walls. You always have the answer, all right? You can't feel anything. You're. You're bulletproof, right? So emotionally, psychologically, financially, sexually, like, I got all the answers. I don't need any help. Give me. Give me space.

[Pablo Torre]

Just give me a laptop, magazine, and some space.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah, I'll. I'll figure it out. And it's all good till it ain't right. When you don't have that purpose and you don't have that support system of the locker room. And you're like, who the hell am I? Well, I've been doing it solo for so long that I don't know how to ask for help. I don't know how to, you know, so, like. And what you realize is it's all relationships. It's all relationships, and it's being authentic in your relationships. And fostering those things. So, like, that's what I would have done. I would have done a better job of fostering relationships and allowing people who I care about to help me along the way.

[Pablo Torre]

When you talk about basically having these relationships, building a cabinet of people around you, I think about how you are also one of the very special, lucky people to have played basketball with a man who had his own cabinet.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

What was playing basketball against Barack Obama?

[Shane Battier]

Like, I was actually on his team. So first of all, to get the. Get the call to go to the president's birthday party.

[Pablo Torre]

What's that call?

[Shane Battier]

Like, unexpected. Unexpected call out of the blue. Hey, what are you doing this day? The president has requested you to play in his birthday pickup game.

[Pablo Torre]

He's turning 49.

[Shane Battier]

Turning 49. And, like, it was, you know, Kobe was hurt by. By them, but it was Carmelo, Magic Johnson. I mean, it was like Alonzo, Moron, D. Wade, Chris, all, like, hall of Famers and so, like, stuff a kid.

[Pablo Torre]

Would do who loved basketball and had the power to invite everybody.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah. And here I am, some schlep. The coolest part was, like, getting in the suv.

[Pablo Torre]

Why were you invited?

[Shane Battier]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't still to this day, I don't know. I don't know. They're trying to, you know, bring some, I don't know. IQ to the.

[Commentator]

The.

[Shane Battier]

The game. I don't know. But I got to play this team. And, you know, the defensive driving, like Navy SEALs who drove us to the gym, that was badass. That was the coolest part. I mean, those guys were. We bobbing and weaving. But we lose the first two games and, you know, President Obama says, guys, bring it in. As your commander in chief, I command you to not lose this last game.

[Pablo Torre]

Were there hard fouls? Were there.

[Shane Battier]

There are no hard fouls, but there was definitely like, they're blocking a shot. Yeah, I think. I think, you know, the president appreciated that. He's, you know, he didn't want charity. That was part of it. He said that. He's like, I don't want charity, all right? I want. I want everyone to play. We're here to win. All right? So he. He got a taste. He got a taste and he hit the game when he shot, and, you know, he did. He hit the game when he shot. He's like this, like. Like this. This kind of squirrely left hander.

[Pablo Torre]

I've seen the footage, you know. Yeah.

[Shane Battier]

It's weird, but it goes in. It goes in and you hit the Shot. And he's walking around holding that. Holding that thing up high. So it was an unbelievable day. The. The coolest, the funniest part was we're on the South Lawn having a barbecue, birthday barbecue afterwards, and, you know, they got some hip hop playing, whatever. And all of a sudden a pony by Genuine comes on. And I'm just thinking to myself, you know, our forefathers are. Are just rolling in their graves right now. That Genuine's pony.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, my God.

[Shane Battier]

Playing on the South Lawn. First time. First time ever.

[Pablo Torre]

That's somewhere. Somewhere. The ghost of Teddy Roosevelt. I was gonna say.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Teddy Roosevelt. Andrew Jackson.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Better yet.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah. Just can't believe it.

[Pablo Torre]

Ride it, my pony My saddle's waiting Come and jump on it if you're horny. Let's do it. Ride it, my pony.

[Shane Battier]

How great's that?

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, that's the American dream.

[Shane Battier]

That is the. It is the American dream. And my wife and I look at each other like this is un. Like no one understands how wonderful this moment is. It's what we worked all these years for.

[Pablo Torre]

Exactly. When you were summoned to the front of the class to explain black history to everybody in Michigan.

[Shane Battier]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

You did not have the audacity to depict this image.

[Shane Battier]

One day I dream of barbecue on the South Lawn.

[Commentator]

And we will play pony and we.

[Shane Battier]

Will all be merry.

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[Pablo Torre]

Part of what is so interesting about hearing you trace your path through. Through life is that at various points, you. You have lived a movie that I find to be endlessly amusing. And one of the scenes that recurs is just you doing karaoke.

[Shane Battier]

First of all, who are you telling me? Who you tell? I mean, you know, when I look at my journals and write a book now, and it's just like, I.

[Pablo Torre]

It's crazy that you've lived all of this already.

[Shane Battier]

It's Forrest Gumpian.

[Another Commentator]

Yes.

[Shane Battier]

It really is Forrest Gumpian.

[Pablo Torre]

You both met the president.

[Shane Battier]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

You both love running.

[Shane Battier]

So I toured China. So my karaoke story in China, I wore a Chinese basketball shoe called Peak. Yeah. Okay. Because Yao Ming was my teammate in Houston, and they wanted a presence on the Rockets. So I went there, I never heard of the shoe. And. And I had like 50 foot billboards in, like, every city you never heard of in China. And so I was very. I was very, very famous in China. Much more famous in China than I was in America. So whenever I go to a. A press conference in the city, when I'm touring, there would be a bunch of reporters there. And they gave me the name Mr. President, because my cadence and the way I talk and gesture was like, Barack Obama.

[Pablo Torre]

I was going to say, your sleeves are rolled up to your elbows. This is not a coincidence.

[Shane Battier]

So I would be in, you know, Ching Tao, and you press would go, Mr. President, Mr. President, how do you find Chinga? And I said, you know what? It has the most beautiful women and the best beer. And then I would go to, you.

[Pablo Torre]

Know what a politician.

[Shane Battier]

Then I go to Shanghai. Mr. President, Mr. President, how do you find Shanghai that has the most beautiful women and the best beer, right? But they knew I love karaoke, and so I went to this beer, actually, the Chingtao Beer Festival in. In Chingtao, China. Beautiful, you know, beautiful city on the. On the water. And they wanted me to sing karaoke. And so this is like a festival. And there's. I swear to you, there was like 20,000 people at this. At this festival, and they want me to sing Billie Jean. And I'm like, all right, no, no, no, no biggie. I'll do it. Well, I get up on stage and so I start singing. You know, she was more like a movie queen from across the scene. And all of a sudden, the. The words just cut out. And so I have no monitor.

[Pablo Torre]

Your prompter goes.

[Shane Battier]

My prompter goes Dead.

[Pablo Torre]

The ultimate politician's nightmare.

[Shane Battier]

And so I'm in front of 20, 000 people playing Billie Jean, you know, fumbling my way through the song, trying to dance to take the, you know, the ice off my horrible. It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare of. Of epic proportions to be in Ching tao, China, for 20, 000 people at a beer festival. At a beer festival with no words. But they. They still cheered for me. I actually, people don't believe me. I hosted the Chinese version of SNL. What it's called happy camp. They get like 100 million people. I. I can't make this up. They get 100 million people a week tuning in on Saturday night, and I was the host. I don't speak of Li Mandarin, like, at all, but again, I had a translator there on tv, and it's like a. It's a comedy sketch. Show. And so they wanted me to come and sing karaoke. So I sang New York, York, New York. You know, I came out of the, you know, doing the kick, doing the Sinatra.

[Pablo Torre]

And yet, is that as weird as the time that you did this?

[Commentator]

Listen to me.

[Shane Battier]

Just stay retired.

[Commentator]

You can still be in the lead at the team front office core. You can have all you ever want.

[Pablo Torre]

So this is the voice of Daryl Mory.

[Shane Battier]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

So Daryl as the. The good witch and Shane as Elphaba. I suppose in this rendition of.

[Shane Battier]

Analytics, Too late to take on Hillary. It's time to trust my instincts, close my eyes, and leave. It's time to try and find gravity. I think I'll try to find gravity. And you can't call me now.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, Daryl wearing a blonde wig and a dress. And you. I mean, when I say that you sang your heart out with a broom in one hand.

[Shane Battier]

Daryl Morey is a very close friend of mine. I wouldn't be here without him. What I learned from him, and he actually wrote that he.

[Pablo Torre]

He loves musicals.

[Shane Battier]

He loved musicals. So he. He and Ellen, his wife, rewrote the words to that and had an idea. So that was all Daryl's idea. And, you know, I. I love that he put on the. The pink Linda dress. So that. That's an event called Badoki that we held in Houston, held in Miami. It raises money for my foundation, the Baddy A Take Church foundation. Given over $4 million in scholarship. Remarkable the last decade. So it's. It's for the kids.

[Pablo Torre]

Daryl, on the one end, did you blackmail LeBron and D. Wade to do RO?

[Commentator]

Yeah.

[Shane Battier]

That was their. That was their own volition. The bad yoke. We don't mess around.

[Pablo Torre]

I dare say that Mr. President has assembled a rainbow coalition of people to do the thing that you made peace with, which is humiliate yourself.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah. For a good cause. You know, you can never humiliate yourself to too much.

[Pablo Torre]

That is also a thing that we here at Pablo Tor finds out that we believe in. Shane Badier. Thank you for turning this podcast into a very happy camp.

[Shane Battier]

Pablo, you're my man. I can't wait to do paternity with you.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, God.

[Shane Battier]

When I see you next time.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, God. I just felt. I just felt. I just felt the need for a towel. This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production, and I'll talk to you next time.