Mr. President’s Mind: How Shane Battier Learned to Lead (and Shut the F*** Up)

Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out
Episode Title: Mr. President’s Mind: How Shane Battier Learned to Lead (and Shut the F*** Up)
Date: June 5, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guest: Shane Battier

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Overview

In this episode, Pablo Torre sits down with former NBA player Shane Battier to delve into what made him a leader on and off the court. The conversation explores Battier’s mental approach to basketball, his background as an outsider, the art of "shutting up" and leading by example, the emotional complexities of retirement, and a slew of stories—ranging from taking charges from Kobe Bryant to playing basketball with President Obama, performing karaoke for 20,000 people in China, and running a charity musical alongside Daryl Morey. The discussion is equal parts raw, thoughtful, and self-deprecating—unpacking what it means to sacrifice for a team, to be ‘the human yellow light’, and to redefine one’s identity after a life in professional sports.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Battier Origin Story: Drive, Alienation, and Overcoming (00:59–05:00; 13:44–15:26)

• Coach K’s Legendary “Alien” Quote:

  • Mike Krzyzewski said:

    “Shane was an alien. I wanted at the end of his career to crack his head open and see if he was really human.” (01:00)

• Intense Early Motivation & Anxiety:

  • Battier describes himself as “a psychotic, neurotic person” at Duke, throwing up before every game, his ambitions so high they unsettled those around him except, notably, Coach K, who saw it as evidence of how deeply Battier cared. (01:17–04:05)

  • “I used to throw up before every game…run back to the bench, grab a Gatorade, throw up in it, throw it back out, and then they toss the ball.” — Shane Battier (02:58)

• Childhood as an Outsider:

  • Battier was the mixed-race, tall, and poor kid in his Detroit suburb, always an outsider, only finding acceptance through sports.

  • “When I help my friends win, like, I'm not, I'm no longer the poor kid, the mixed kid, the tall kid, all right? I'm just the kid who helped my friends win… it was born out of desperation.” (13:44–15:26)

2. The “No-Stats All-Star”: Analytics, Defense, and Making Teammates Better (05:50–16:36)

• Embracing the Nerdy Identity:

  • Michael Lewis’s New York Times Magazine piece dubbed Battier the “No-Stats All-Star”—a moniker he now wears with pride, crediting it for his success post-basketball.

  • “Now I love that. That's my reputation. That was always authentically who I was... So I'm very proud of that moniker. It's super nerdy, but I'm nerdy, so it's all good.” — Shane Battier (07:31)

• Strategic Defense: The Human Yellow Light:

  • Battier explains his defensive philosophy: understanding inefficiencies, forcing superstars into tough shots, and using data to “slow them down” rather than stop them outright.

  • “I can be a human yellow light and slow them down a little bit. And that was my only goal. Just be the human yellow light.” (11:16)

• Teaching the Unteachable:

  • Battier details how he detached himself from the outcome on defense, focusing only on getting opponents to shoot from low-percentage areas on the court.

  • “The one thing I was able to do that a lot of people can't do, I detached myself from the outcome.” (12:26)

3. Culture Change, Leadership, and Learning to Listen (16:44–20:25)

• Epic Locker Room Fail:

  • Battier recalls his failed attempt at leadership as a rookie in Memphis, standing up in a losing ‘players-only’ meeting only to be told, “Hey, Duke boy, shut the f*** up.” (18:30)

  • “I did not read the room. It humbled me.” (18:53)

• Gradual Culture Change:

  • Instead of becoming jaded, Battier worked harder, eventually watching the team’s attitude shift and winning increase under coach Hubie Brown.
  • “It's not the rah rah speeches…It's the small, subtle acts that most people don't even pay mind to…It's the unmeasurable.” (20:04)

4. LeBron, the Miami Heat, and the Stakes of Game 6 (22:13–25:15)

• Inside the “LeBron Game”:

  • Battier relives the tense 2012 Eastern Conference Finals, describing how the Heat entered Boston as the villains, how LeBron’s steely calm and focus radiated through the locker room, and the magnitude of his 45-point performance.

  • “When that motherf***er has that look, man, let's go. It's like when Adam turns into He-Man.” (23:43)

  • “The greatest game I've ever seen anybody play.” (25:11)

  • Final stat line: 45 points, 15 rebounds, 5 assists, 19–26 shooting. (25:05–25:07)

• On Playing with Greatness:

  • Jokes that LeBron did something twice “Jordan couldn’t have done once: won two NBA titles with Shane Battier as starting power forward.” (25:39)

5. Retirement, Identity, and Vulnerability (26:11–34:04)

• The Emotional Crash:
  • Battier describes the pain of being benched late in his career, the resultant depression, and emotional withdrawal from family after retiring.

  • “I shut people out...I pushed my wife away. I pushed my kids away. And I just was a jerk. And I wasn’t emotionally available.” (26:57)

• Therapy & Relationships:
  • With encouragement from his wife, Battier sought therapy, unpacking years of unaddressed baggage, learning to allow himself to be helped, and realizing “it’s all relationships.”

  • “That's what I would have done. I would have done a better job of fostering relationships and allowing people who I care about to help me along the way.” (33:10)

6. Basketball with President Obama and “Mr. President” in China (34:04–41:05)

• Playing for the Commander-in-Chief:

  • Battier recounts playing on Obama’s pickup team for his birthday at the White House, with NBA legends and Secret Service drivers.

  • “As your commander in chief, I command you to not lose this last game.” (35:22)

  • Obama hits the game-winning shot and later celebrates with “Pony” by Ginuwine on the South Lawn:

    “Our forefathers are just rolling in their graves right now that Ginuwine’s Pony is playing on the South Lawn.” (36:26)

• “Mr. President” in China & International Fame:

  • Accidental political nickname and comedic stories about being more famous in China than in the U.S., particularly for his “presidential” manner and love of karaoke.
  • Survives a disastrous karaoke moment in front of 20,000 at the Qingdao Beer Festival when the prompter cuts out (“nightmare of epic proportions”). (40:03)

• Hosted Chinese SNL-equivalent “Happy Camp”:

  • “I can't make this up. They get 100 million people a week tuning in on Saturday night, and I was the host. I don't speak a lick of Mandarin.” (40:34)

7. Battioke, Daryl Morey, and Embracing Humiliation for Good (41:05–44:01)

• Charity Karaoke with NBA Royalty:
  • Pablo revisits video of Shane and Daryl Morey performing ’Defying Gravity’ from Wicked in costume for Battier’s charity event “Battioke,” which has raised $4 million+ in scholarships.

  • “You can never humiliate yourself too much.” — Shane Battier (44:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Defensive Paranoia:

  “That anxiety was real, right? And so I call it productive paranoia.” — Shane Battier (10:13)

• On Detachment from Ego:

  “I didn't care if a guy made a shot or not. I really didn't. I cared where they took that shot.” — Shane Battier (12:26)

• On Culture Change:

  “It's the small, subtle acts that most people don't even pay mind to. It's the unmeasurable.” — Shane Battier (20:04)

• On Post-Retirement Loss:

  “I was chasing relevance… to not have that when you wake up one day because you don’t have the jersey, you don’t have the locker room… scary. Yeah, I was terrified.” (28:27–29:06)

• On Mental Health in Sports:

  “I never had a sports psychologist when I played because I was so scared of anyone getting inside this and taking away my superpower.” (31:26)

• On Obama’s Pickup Game:

  “He didn't want charity…He hit the game-winning shot… it was an unbelievable day. The coolest, the funniest part…” (34:48–36:41)

• On Humbling Charity Work:

  “You can never humiliate yourself too much.” — Shane Battier (44:01)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Childhood & Drive: 13:44–15:26
• Becoming the “No-Stats All-Star”: 07:11–08:15
• Locker Room ‘Leadership’ Fail: 18:30–19:39
• Miami Heat Game 6, 2012: 22:13–25:16
• Retirement & Mental Health: 26:18–33:49
• Playing (and Winning) with Obama: 34:04–36:41
• Karaoke Horror in China: 40:02–40:33
• Charity Karaoke with Daryl Morey: 41:05–44:01

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Tone & Language

Wry, candid, affectionate, and self-reflective. Both Torre and Battier mix humor with seriousness, examining the costs of obsession, the journey from outsider to leader, and the unexpected joys and humiliations of a life in and after sports. The conversation is equal parts analytical (“the human yellow light”; “productive paranoia”), vulnerable (discussing cynicism and therapy), and joyfully silly (karaoke, Battioke, “Mr. President” in China).

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Conclusion

This episode combines sharp storytelling, insider basketball anecdotes, genuine confessions about mental health, and riotous tales from the “Forrest Gumpian” journey of Shane Battier. With memorable quotes, irreverent humor, and thoughtful reflection, the conversation makes clear why being a true team player—on the court and in life—requires both leading, listening, and sometimes, learning when to just “shut the f*** up.”

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound right after this ad. I love when a guest has a notebook. I do.

[Shane Battier]

I feel like such a boomer. I mean, I. I'm getting old. I'm 46 years old. I forget things. But if I write it down, I have notebooks upon notebooks of. Of just maxims and quotes. If I put it in my phone, it's gone.

[Pablo Torre]

And you have the good kind of pen, too, by the way, that Finn.

[Shane Battier]

Oh, the. The. The Muji pen. Not a new pen.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right. That's veteran savvy.

[Shane Battier]

The finer things in life.

[Pablo Torre]

But I wonder if you've used that Muji pen to write down at any point the quote I wanted to actually start with.

[Shane Battier]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

Which is, of course, from Mike Shashevsky, Coach K, head coach of your Duke Blue Devils, who said this quote, shane was an alien. I wanted at the end of his career to crack his head open and see if he was really human. End quote.

[Shane Battier]

I think that's a compliment, Pablo. I was psycho. I was a psycho. A psychotic, neurotic person in my time at Duke.

[Sports Commentator]

And great steal by Forte. He'll go for two. No. That's one of the great defensive players you'll ever see right there, baby.

[Shane Battier]

When Coach K recruited me, I was part of a very talented recruiting class. Number one class in the country. Elton Brand, William Avery. Yeah, right. Coach Chris Burgess.

[Pablo Torre]

I grew up watching you guys, right?

[Shane Battier]

And we were going to a team that had, you know, at the time, 10 McDonald's all Americans. We had 10. 10, which is crazy. So you're saying, like, why would you go to a team that has 10 McDonald's all Americans? And. And Coach K, people always ask me, like, what's so great about Coach K? Coach K can peer into your soul and know what button to push. Finding the heart of the team is huge. I call it a spirit. He has a different spirit. Once we get him in our program, I have to give him some more latitude where he feels comfortable in instinctively following that spirit. And he knew this when I was in high school. So he came into my living room and he said, you know, hey, Shane, I'm not going to promise you playing time. I'm not going to promise you shots. I'll promise you one thing. The opportunity to earn playing time every single day. And if you're good enough to play. So he had me hook, line, a sinker, and I'm like, I'm gonna show you. I'm gonna show you. And I'm gonna make you play me.

[Pablo Torre]

You're gonna stab people's eyeballs with that fine ballpoint muji pen.

[Shane Battier]

I would, I would have. I would have. I used to throw up before every game. Every game, every game my freshman year, I started, and literally I'm going out to the jump ball circle. I'm so anxious, I want to play well so bad. I would run back to the. Run back to the bench, grab a gator, throw up in it, throw it back out, and then they toss the ball.

[Narrator]

And just to be extra clear about this, Shane Battier barfing his ambitions into a towel before every game as a 6 foot 8 Duke freshman was a thing that pretty much everybody who cared about him found intensely unsettling, I am told. And this was true of his college girlfriend, who was now his wife. And it was true of then Duke assistant coach Quinn Snyder was now the head coach of the Atlanta Hawks, although there was one notable exception.

[Shane Battier]

I think Coach K loved it because he's like, it matters to him. He cares. But Quinn Steiner was like, this is not healthy. You cannot do this. And so he literally would, like, breathe with me.

[Narrator]

Breathe.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah, breathe. He exchange. Breathe, breathe, breathe.

[Narrator]

But when it comes to barf, the first thing that I personally think about, when I think about Shane, whose brain, by the way, not unlike Coach K, I also plan to just crack open here is a different liquid. And it dates back to the first time that I ever met Shane, which was at a bar during the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference about maybe a decade ago, which would be around six, sometime after he played pickup with Barack Obama, which we'll discuss, and probably also around when he was just winning championships with LeBron James, who would call Shane, quote, the number one smartest basketball player and person I've been around, end quote. But that night, during that conference, Shane Battier introduced me to something else.

[Shane Battier]

It's a magical mixture of alcohol that was introduced to me by my teammate in Miami, Greg Oden, who learned this drink from Beast Mode himself, which is totally on brand. And that drink is called Petrenisi.

[Narrator]

And what I found out that night is that Petrenisi is exactly what you think it is and exactly what Marshawn lynch apparently envisioned. Half patron, half Hennessy, which is why I also found out that drinking patronessy made me feel like Shane Battier during his freshman year.

[Shane Battier]

And so we were bonded from that moment on. I mean, you look at me, I look at you, and the first thought is patronessy.

[Narrator]

And just to clarify here, by the Way I did not grow up dreaming of a bond with this man. As I said, I grew up watching Shane take charges, slap floors, become a champion at Duke. I am the national player of the year and a three time defensive player of the year. But he went to Duke. And after the Memphis Grizzlies, the God awful Memphis grizzlies drafted Shane sixth overall in 2001. I mostly forgot about him. I think most people did. But in 2009, no less than Michael Lewis wrote a seminal article about Shane Battier for the New York Times Magazine. And this article had an unforgettable headline, the no Stats All Star. Because Shane at this point was a 30 year old glue guy, a nerdy glue guy grinding away for the Houston Rockets. And what Michael Lewis basically did was make the case for why this relatively minor character who had this vomitously maniacal devotion to defense, to frustrating the most unstoppable scorers in the world, actually represented the modern evolution of sports culture writ large.

[Pablo Torre]

Shane was analytical.

[Narrator]

He avoided taking two point shots because of their inefficiency.

[Shane Battier]

And also when the story first came out, I had mixed emotions, I'm not gonna lie.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, you see the headline?

[Shane Battier]

Yeah, it's like it's, it's, it's the biggest like backhanded compliment you can get. You know, it's, it's Michael Lewis.

[Pablo Torre]

So like Michael, you know, Mr. Moneyball.

[Shane Battier]

That article has generated, you know, a lot of money for me over the years. You know, my speaking career and podcast. He's so like I, it was my opus and I would not be here without Michael. And so at the time when you're, you know, I was still, what, probably eight years into my career, you know, I still thought I was a really good player and, and more than just like a glue guy. But now I love it. And now I love that. That's my, that's my reputation. That was always authentically who I was. Right? So like Lewis hit it right in the head. That's, that's how I was from kindergarten all the way to my last day in the NBA. So I'm very proud of that moniker. It's super nerdy, but I'm nerdy, so it's all good.

[Pablo Torre]

The embedded sort of premise of the no Stats All Star is that in ways that cannot be actually quantified but can be begun to be detected by the most advanced metrics. So it's really the advanced math All Star more than it is the no stats All Star. Yeah, yeah, good point. I want to just quote the thing about you that Daryl Morey, who is now of course president of the 76ers, a fellow PTFO guest, as is Michael Lewis. This is all very incestuous. I want to just quote, Darryl Darrell says quote, I call him Lego. When he's on the court, all the pieces start to fit together and everything that leads to winning that you can get to through intellect. Instead of innate ability, Shane excels in, I'll bet he's in the hundredth percentile of every category. So again, familiar, compliment, insult, sort of like layer cake.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Instead of innate ability, you know, there.

[Narrator]

Was something that you were great at.

[Pablo Torre]

That was kind of ineffable. Give us the, the sort of like the, the, the gallery of people that Shane Battier had to puke into his towel to sort of contemplate defending House of horrors.

[Shane Battier]

And the best thing that happened to me my rookie year was I played two guard. So here I am out there, I'm guarding Iverson, I'm guarding Paul Pierce, I'm guarding Ray Allen, I'm guarding Kobe.

[Sports Commentator]

The ball comes in, Colby's got it above the three point line, taking a little bit of time, one dribble, pull up for the win. He's got it.

[Shane Battier]

They kicked my ass my rookie year. But I learned, you know, I learned so much. I learned so much. I learned angles, I learned how to use my height, I learned how to be physical. And that was the best instructor for me. And so look, I, I took a great pride in, in, in catching all those guys. Carmelo.

[Sports Commentator]

It's Carmelo against Battier. This defense has been destroyed. Battier's defense, that is against Carmelo. Inside KD drives on, Badier throws it down, Kevin Durant, you name it.

[Shane Battier]

I played against the, the greatest players of my generation and I miss that anxiety. All right, Garden. Kobe Bryant is scary. I never will forget the feeling of getting on the bus. The Marina del Rey writz and it's like a 45 minute ride to Staples Center. And I'm just thinking to myself, this guy's trying to embarrass me. Like, I know, like I know he's just like, he's lathered right now and he wants to score 80 points on me tonight. Like, and so like that anxiety was real, right? And so I call it productive paranoia. Instead of being like paralyzing, I use that to be like, man, I better know everything about Kobe that there is to know about him. And so that, like that, like I, I tried to learn and threw myself in the data analytics and, and just learn Kobe Better than Kobe knew himself.

[Sports Commentator]

On Kobe Bryant following the game plan, the strategy, contesting every shot, not giving him a wide open look, fighting through screens. You talk about when he goes up, you go up as a defender doing an outstanding job of not surrendering an inch. Shane B. Says, hey, I stay the course.

[Shane Battier]

And it allowed me just to stay in the game. And I understood, okay, I'm not going to stop these guys, but I can be a human yellow light and slow them down a little bit. And that was my only goal. Just be the human yellow light.

[Pablo Torre]

The whole thing of like, I'm gonna slow you down, but I know I'm not gonna stop you. Yeah, right. When it came to why these guys, as much as they would talk about how, you know, we're not afraid of shame. Baddie A. Yeah.

[Shane Battier]

Does it feel different facing this team with Badier gone? You guys had a lot of classic matchups throughout the years. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess, I.

[Pablo Torre]

Guess the stats actually indicate like, yo, the. You, you slowed down.

[Shane Battier]

I wasn't bad.

[Pablo Torre]

You slowed down at the yellow light.

[Shane Battier]

As it turned out, it turned out it was. It wasn't half bad.

[Pablo Torre]

There an element of this that is teachable.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah, because I, I had the answer to the test before I took it. Like in the NBA, everyone overestimates how good of a 20 foot jump shooter they are. A 20 foot jump shot is a really hard shot to shoot, especially if you dribble once. It's like a 40% shot, that's a tough shot. And people will argue with me, oh, no, it's part of the game. We can't. No, that is a hard shot for even the best player, unless your name is Steph Curry or Kevin Durant. All right. Devin Booker. And the one thing that, you know, I was able to do that a lot of people can't do, I detached myself from the outcome. I didn't, I didn't care. I didn't care if a guy made a shot or not. I really didn't. I cared where they took that shot. And I knew if they took the shot in the wrong area, in the area where they, they struggled the most, given enough time, sample size, they would beat themselves. And so I just had to like, sort of lead them to that, that conclusion. And so you can teach somebody kind of the squares in the court where it's just hard to make a shot.

[Sports Commentator]

A 2 over B, a rebound by Byum, relentless pressure. He's going to put that on you every single possession.

[Shane Battier]

And you know what? You got to give Shane B.

[Sports Commentator]

A lot of credit.

[Pablo Torre]

When you, when you look back at how you got to be this way, that's the part where I'm like, I don't know if you can really teach that.

[Shane Battier]

Well, look, I grew up in a middle class part of Detroit, all right? I was very poor. You know, the roof leaked when it rained. I remember what a government cheese sandwich tasted like. I had patches on my jeans and all my clothes. Like, we had, like, no money. You know, I learned the phrase rob Peter to pay Paul. Like when I was in kindergarten, right? We were very, very poor. I was the only kid in town that had a black dad and a white mom. So in elementary school, of 500 kids, I was the only black kid, okay? I got a pick on pitcher Day. Everyone else got a comb, okay? On Martin Luther King Day, I was expecting to know everything about black culture from the dawn of civilization. And I was a foot taller than everybody else, okay? So I was the kid who had always had to carry a birth certificate with him at the little league game. So I was an outcast wherever I went. So I was mixed, tall and poor. The only place I really felt at home was at recess and playing kickball and playing dodgeball and playing basketball and baseball, all the sports. And I realized, like, when I help my friends win, like, I'm not, I'm no longer the poor kid, the mixed kid, the tall kid, all right? I'm just the kid who helped my friends win. So I didn't, I didn't care, like, about what I did or how I looked. All I cared about is, did we win and did I help my friends win? So I'm gonna, I'm gonna do whatever it takes. I'm doing whatever it takes to make sure my friends look good and that we win. I took that lesson from kindergarten. So it was born out of desperation. It was born out of just, hey, I want to be loved. I want to be accepted. And it's, it's, that's what put the dog in me to, to just be just intense and, and paranoid and all those things.

[Pablo Torre]

I find that a big learning that people hopefully have had about the nerd as a creature in American life is that the nerd can be among the most competitive people you've ever imagined. Oh, yeah, the guy who, and again, this is me fact checking as a journalist. The guy who had a subscription to Laptop magazine.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah, I'm, I'm a gadget.

[Pablo Torre]

But, you know, there was a magazine called Laptop Magazine. I mean, this is just depth that I, I, I'M obviously somebody who is. This is a judgment free zone. But I didn't know there was a Laptop magazine.

[Shane Battier]

We share an insatiable curiosity.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Shane Battier]

And that, that, like.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Shane Battier]

Knowing your story, that was my secret power. I was so scared that there's the answer is out there. I just haven't found it yet. And so, yeah, I subscribed to Laptop magazine because they had all these new gadgets come out. And I said, oh, like, maybe this could be the answer. Like, to change my life. Right. Again, that was my superpower in the NBA. Like, I don't know how to guard Kobe Bryant. Like, well, well, maybe if I, if I learn this about him, like, it, it'll help me.

[Pablo Torre]

No, but the whole idea of, like.

[Narrator]

Winning over a room.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. Which is embedded in the premise of culture, which is to say that, like, it needs buy in.

[Shane Battier]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

You need to convert people to the thing that you revere.

[Shane Battier]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

How hard was that for you? In these locker rooms, when I go.

[Shane Battier]

To the Grizzlies, they had the lowest winning percentage of the four North American professional sports leagues. Okay. They had a 20 winning percentage.

[Pablo Torre]

That, that's a good stat.

[Shane Battier]

They won one out of every five games in the, the history of their. For the franchise. Okay, so you talk about a franchise that had, like, no idea how to win. This is the Grizzlies. So we lose our first 10 games, you know, we're on a bad team. I think we're like 2 and 15.

[Sports Commentator]

Their style has not been good. They have stumbled along the way. They have not had their productivity out of their scores. They have been passing at the point, and they've lost 11 in a row. A lot of work to be done.

[Shane Battier]

Here in Memphis, we call, like the, the most overhyped, overused term in pro sports. The players only locker room meeting.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, God, it's the worst. I wanted. I, I've, I've been fascinated by this ritual.

[Shane Battier]

Why?

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, so explain. For those not familiar with why this is a thing, please explain the thing.

[Shane Battier]

So a player's only meeting only happens when you're, you know, you're getting heat from the media. The fans are on you. All right, look, you know, you're not playing well. Okay? So you know all the movies, you know, say, you know, you know, the captains, the veterans, they call a players only meeting. We're going to air our grievances and we're going to have a Kumbaya moment, and that's going to propel us to, to, to better performance. Okay? And so during this particular locker Room meeting. You know, here I am, you know, full of righteousness, coming from Duke, the Coach K way.

[Pablo Torre]

Yep.

[Shane Battier]

And I'm the first one to stand up, and I say, you know, I gotta be honest. The veteran leadership on this team sucks. Very honest, very direct. And they said, hey, Duke boy, shut the up. Go sit in the corner. Who are you? And I was just like, oh, man, I did not read the room. It humbled me. And I realized, like, man, I can't come in here guns ablazing because there's. There's kind of like an ethos and a creed and kind of an unspoken locker room path you got to take to earn credibility. And I. And I hadn't done that to that point. And so I. I shut my ass. I went to work, right? But I didn't. I didn't become cynical. I didn't become jaded. I wouldn't allow that locker room to change me. So I kept working. And a funny thing happened. Like, the guys who maybe were on the fence and didn't know how to. How to act and how to win started to have, like. Like winning attitudes and, like, winning behaviors. And all of a sudden, like, you can kind of feel the. The locker room kind of. Kind of shift a little bit. And we started to believe a little bit. And Hubie Brown comes in. The next year, we start winning some games.

[Sports Commentator]

Memphis now 26 and 31 since that over 13 start. The team that was once an easy out now holds the key in the Western Conference playoff race.

[Shane Battier]

It was pretty awesome to be part of. I'd never been part of, like, a culture change.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. But this is a mythical concept of, like, how do you change culture? The thing that every business is going to have to grapple with at some point, if they meet, what is more likely than not, which is failure.

[Shane Battier]

Yep. It's not the. The rah rah speeches. All right. It's not the. The sayings on the wall. It's. It's the small, subtle acts that most people don't even pay mind to. It's. It's the unmeasurable. It's the unmeasurable.

[Narrator]

Which is all to say that there are these inflection points in Shane Battier's life when he has had to decide whether it is time for him to take the microphone or not. And this can be a difficult political exercise for somebody who loves karaoke as much as Shane Battier does. As we need to explain in a bit, but this takes us to a moment, for now on the court, when the human yellow light wasn't actually trying to slow down a superstar because it was June 2012 and Shane was playing for the Miami Heat. And the Miami Heat, for those not familiar, fetishize culture more than any other team in sports, as our own Ryan Cortez will gladly tell you. And it's to the point where the Heat would go on to later hire Shane as an executive. But on this June evening in 2012, what Shane Battier was mostly trying to do was just not get in the way of one of his fellow starters. The issue, however, was that LeBron James, one of the best scorers ever, obviously, who was now being given the greenest possible light, had won zero titles at this point. Speaking of measurables, LeBron had joined Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami, only to be humiliated by Dallas in the finals the year before this. And so here the heat were in 2012, overhyped and trailing in one of the most tense Eastern Conference finals in memory. And they were about to be eliminated by their most hated rival.

[Sports Commentator]

Welcome to Boston on a sold out TD Garden. It's game six of the East.

[Shane Battier]

They're saying, look, there's no way the Heat are going to win this game.

[Sports Commentator]

Boston with a three to two edge and a chance to move on.

[Pablo Torre]

David slaying Goliath.

[Shane Battier]

Yes. We know if we lose game six, this is like maybe the. The most failed experiment. The most absolutely highly publicized failed experiment. And there's blood on everybody's hands.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. And by the way, there's just salivating from everybody who talks about sports. You guys are villains. You guys are Goliath. Again. That's the other key part of this, is that it's. What does Goliath do to save his own ass?

[Shane Battier]

They drove the hearse to TD bank arena that night. But like before that game, there wasn't like a huge rah rah speech. It was just like, look, we just gotta be ourselves. We've been through the fire. And there was a trust.

[Pablo Torre]

What was LeBron like? Because this is now in terms of his character study.

[Shane Battier]

The LeBron game.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. And also like adding an inflection.

[Shane Battier]

An inflection. That was the inflection point for his entire hall of Fame career.

[Pablo Torre]

The story of his life is so different. If that game goes differently different.

[Shane Battier]

No one, no, no one realizes that. And so, like, of anybody, LeBron knows, like, he has the most at stake. Yes, the most. Yes, the most. And so like, he was very calm that day. He didn't say.

[Pablo Torre]

He didn't puke into a towel.

[Shane Battier]

No. No, but like, let me tell you what. When that motherf er has that look, man, let's go. It's like when Adam turns into he man.

[Sports Commentator]

I have the power.

[Shane Battier]

Almost like an aura around him. We're just like, oh, my gosh, this is unbelievable.

[Sports Commentator]

Turns, oh, jump hook, won't go. James comes flying in and throws it down. He's got 27 first half points.

[Pablo Torre]

I remember watching this game. Oh, and imagining what must it be like to be around him in this moment.

[Shane Battier]

You didn't talk about it. You didn't look at him. You're just like, I don't want to.

[Sports Commentator]

Jinx it here at the TD Garden. 30 in the first half. These are all second half. The one foot step back and then the little floater as he posts up Rondo at the elbow. And then the 17 foot catch that jab step, jump shot game.

[Shane Battier]

And so we win the game and you win big. We win big.

[Pablo Torre]

By the way, like curb stomping suffocation big.

[Shane Battier]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

Because the final score is 98 to 79.

[Shane Battier]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

LeBron, for the record, right? Do you remember his stat line? Because 45, 45 minutes, 45 points, 19 of 26.

[Narrator]

Yeah, 19 of 26.

[Shane Battier]

Ridiculous.

[Pablo Torre]

Also, by the way, 15 rebounds, throwing five assists. You know, casually.

[Shane Battier]

I mean, the greatest game I've ever seen anybody play.

[Pablo Torre]

It's a hard argument to beat.

[Shane Battier]

It was given the stakes, given the gravity of the situation, given like the, the, the historical implications. Historical.

[Pablo Torre]

We're going to be arguing Jordan versus LeBron forever. And this game is the reason why it's plausible.

[Shane Battier]

I'm, I'm always going with LeBron for a simple reason. For simple reason.

[Pablo Torre]

Is it because you scored eight points that game?

[Shane Battier]

LeBron did something twice that Jordan I don't think could have done once. He won two NBA titles with Shane B. A starting Power 4. No way. No way Jordan, no way Jordan could have done that. As great as Jordan was, LeBron dragged me across the finish line.

[Pablo Torre]

The Albatross had never been so heavy.

[Shane Battier]

And that is, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Pablo Torre]

Now that we've gone through one of the. The glorious chapters, do you remember the most humiliated you ever felt in the league?

[Shane Battier]

My. My last year, my last year when I was told, without being told, that our best chance of winning doesn't include you, Shane. When, you know, SPO started to sit me in the fourth quarter, nothing was worse to me than sitting me in crunch time. That was my identity, and it hurt me to my core. And that's When I knew I was done, I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed, and I checked out. And I was cynical. And so when I retired, I was very cynical. And so I was sad, but I was also very cynical.

[Pablo Torre]

What does cynicism mean at this point in your trajectory?

[Shane Battier]

I shut people out. I was probably. Probably battling some depression. I didn't know what depression was. I never had this feeling before, but feeling very isolated. I didn't feel anyone understood what I was going through. I felt very alone, and I pushed people away. I pushed my wife away, I pushed my kids away. And I just was a jerk. And I wasn't, like, doing destructive things. It wasn't like I was drinking every night, but I was. I was just. I was emotionally unavailable, and I was hurt, and I was pissed off. And I had all these emotions I had never associated with basketball. And it was a big mistake to go work for espn. I was really bad on tv. You could probably go on awful announcing.

[Pablo Torre]

And say, oh, we're going to find some Shane Battier. I was low lights.

[Shane Battier]

I had. I had zero passion for it. Zero. Congratulations. Your father was a great point guard for the Russian national team. What has he meant to your career? Oh, I think now he watch. He watched this. He watched Draft, like, a lot of emotion they have. So same. Like me. Well, that's great.

[Pablo Torre]

But at this point in our episode.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Everybody listening understands how insane that is.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

That you guy. They've been listening to tell stories with this level of alacrity.

[Shane Battier]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

Couldn't do that.

[Shane Battier]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

Because of this internal. Was it. Was it. Was this the hearse? Was this finally you being like, I guess I got to get in this thing now.

[Shane Battier]

I. I was chasing relevance when you. When you retire. Like, you don't know. This is. This is all I knew. It's all I knew. 30 years. Right. I had purpose every day. I had the scoreboard above me and told me where I was. All right. I love my teammates. I. Being part of a team. Right. The money was great. You know, I. I had status. I had all these things that like. Like people are chasing these things in their professional life. I had it checked, every box. So to not have that when you wake up one day because you don't have the jersey, you don't have the locker room, you don't have the purpose. Scary. Yeah, I was. I was terrified. I was terrified.

[Pablo Torre]

There's one quote that I remember you giving at one point, and it was, if you had filet mignon every single night, you'd stop tasting it.

[Shane Battier]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

Which is to say that even though you missed so actively the thing that you weren't doing anymore, it felt like by the end also, your. Your ability to enjoy it was also changing, which is an interesting tension of, like, missing something that wasn't even the thing that for you was anymore.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a weird. It's a weird feeling. It was a weird. It was a weird time. I went through a lot of, who am I? Who am I? My identity was so tied to basketball. It was tied to the no stat, all star stuff.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Shane Battier]

Right. So, like, I. In a lot of ways, I felt like I was an actor in my own life that I had to only take, like, I couldn't turn it over. I couldn't take two point shots because I talked about it. No, literally.

[Pablo Torre]

So I. I get it.

[Shane Battier]

So I felt like, almost like I was playing this role of this guy and we talk about authenticity, and I. I played it to the best of my ability. But I questioned, like, who the heck am I? What. What am I about? Like, what am I doing? What am I doing? And, you know, going to ESPN and being terrible at. And that disaster of a year didn't help. And so, you know, I'd never been to therapy. My wife, you know, of 22 years, when we met in seventh grade, said, look, Shannon, I know you like optionality. Here's three options. You can, you know, here's the number to the Marriott, here's the number to your attorney, and here's this number to this life coach slash psychologist that comes very highly recommended. I said, heidi, I'm a very smart man. I'm gonna choose door three. And so I had to unpack a lot of crap that I just didn't deal with because I was so driven. I was. I was throwing. I was too busy throwing up. I was too busy grinding and just like, pursuing whatever it was in the battlefield basketball career that I did not give time to. And, like, not healthy at all. You know, I was not stable.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, this is the other thing about, like, having a superpower in any way. Right. Is that there is an implication that, man, look at this gift. But the more I learn about sports, the more I realize that extremity in any fashion also implies a certain imbalance if you're not extraordinarily careful.

[Shane Battier]

100%. And I don't. I would. I do things differently. I don't know. That's the thing. I know it wasn't healthy, but, like, I never had a. Like a sports psychologist when I play because I was so scared of anyone getting inside this and taking away my superpower.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Shane Battier]

Which was like, my IQ and my ability to read and react. I'm like, I don't. I don't need to be thinking. I don't need to be, you know, emotive here. I just need to be, like, a great defender and make open shots and, like.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Shane Battier]

I'll deal with it later.

[Pablo Torre]

The standard of success is not a health. It is. Are we winning?

[Shane Battier]

Are we winning? Am I still here? And so I don't know what I would have done differently.

[Pablo Torre]

Did your. Did you get a sense that when you got into therapy that your psychologist was like, I know exactly the type of person you are, or were they saying something that was.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah, I don't think I was out of the ordinary for a retired athlete. I think every athlete goes through some version of this, some form or fashion, and the longer you're in the game, the more work you got to do. Right. And I describe it as. And I think this is. This befalls any. Any person of success, all right? But especially young people, you know, entertainers or people who win the first third of their life, right. When you're identified as a young talent or even an old talent, you know, you're told you're great, you know, and if you show any vulnerability, guess what? We're going to take your dream and give it to that person, because they don't show any weakness. So what do you do? You start building walls. You always have the answer. All right? You can't feel anything. You're bulletproof, right? So emotionally, psychologically, financially, sexually, like, I got all the answers. I don't need any help. Give me. Give me space.

[Pablo Torre]

Give me laptop, magazine and some space.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah, I'll figure it out. And it's all good till it ain't right. When you don't have that purpose and you don't have that support system of the locker room, and you're like, who the hell am I? Well, I've been doing it solo for so long that I don't know how to ask for help. I don't know how to, you know. So, like. And what you realize is it's. It's all relationships. It's all relationships, and it's being authentic in your relationships and. And fostering those things. So, like, that's what I would have done. I would have done a better job of fostering relationships and allowing people who I care about to help me along the way.

[Pablo Torre]

When you talk about basically having these relationships, building a cabinet of people around you, I Think about how you are also one of the very special, lucky people to have played basketball with a man who had his own cabinet.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

What was playing basketball against Barack Obama?

[Shane Battier]

Like, I was actually on his team. So first of all, to get that, to get the call to go to the President's birthday.

[Pablo Torre]

What's that call? Like?

[Shane Battier]

Unexpected. Unexpected call out of the blue. Hey, what are you doing this day? The president has requested you to play in his birthday pickup game.

[Pablo Torre]

He's turning 49.

[Shane Battier]

Turning 49. And like, it was, you know, Kobe was hurt by. By them, but it was Carmelo, Magic Johnson. I mean, it was like alonzo Mori and LeBron, D. Wade, Chris, all Hall of Famers. And so, like, stuff a kid would.

[Pablo Torre]

Do who loved basketball and had the power to invite everybody.

[Shane Battier]

Yeah. And here I am, some schlep. The coolest part was, like, getting in the. The su.

[Pablo Torre]

Why were you invited?

[Shane Battier]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't still to this day, I don't know. I don't know. They're trying to, you know, bring some, I don't know, IQ to the. The. The game. I don't know. But I got to play this team. And you know, the defensive driving, like Navy Seals who drove us to the gym, that was badass. That was the coolest part. I mean, those guys were bobbing and weaving. But we lose the first two games and, you know, President Obama says, guys, bring it in. As your commander in chief, I command you to not lose this last game.

[Pablo Torre]

Were there hard fouls? Were there.

[Shane Battier]

There are no hard fouls, but there was definitely, like, they're blocking a shot. Yeah, I think, I think, you know, the president appreciated that. He's, you know, he didn't want charity. That was part of it. He said that. He's like, I don't want charity, all right? I want. I want everyone to play. We're here to win. All right? So he. He got a taste. You got a taste. And he hit the game when he shot, you know, he did. He hit the game when he shot. He's like this, like. Like this. This kind of squirrely left hander. I've seen the footage, you know. Yeah. It's weird, but it goes in. It goes in and you hit the shot and he's walking around holding that, holding that thing up high. So it was an unbelievable day. The. The coolest, the funniest part was we're on the south lawn having a barbecue, birthday barbecue afterwards, and, you know, they got some hip hop playing, whatever. And all Of a sudden, a pony by Jenny Wine comes on. And I'm just thinking to myself, you know, our forefathers are. Are just rolling in their graves right now. That genuine's pony.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, my God.

[Shane Battier]

Is playing on the South Lawn. First time. First time ever. That's awesome.

[Pablo Torre]

Somewhere, the ghost of Teddy Roosevelt. I was going to say. Yeah, Teddy Roosevelt. Andrew Jackson. Better yet.

[Shane Battier]

Can't believe it.

[Pablo Torre]

Ride it, my pony My saddle's waiting. Come and jump on it if you're horny. Let's do it. Ride it, my pony.

[Shane Battier]

How great's that?

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, that's the American dream.

[Shane Battier]

That is the. It is the American dream. And my wife and I look at each other like this is un. Like no one understands how wonderful this moment is. It's what we worked all these years for.

[Pablo Torre]

Exactly. When you were summoned to the front of the class to explain black history to everybody in Michigan, you did not have the audacity to. To depict this image.

[Shane Battier]

One day I dream of barbecue on the South Lawn and we will play pony and we will all be merry.

[Pablo Torre]

Part of what is so interesting about hearing you trace your path through. Through life is that at various points, you. You have lived a. A movie that I find to be endlessly amusing. And one of the scenes that recurs is just you doing karaoke.

[Shane Battier]

First of all, who are you telling? Who are you telling? I mean, you know, when I look at my journals and writing a book now, and it's just like, I.

[Pablo Torre]

It's crazy that you've lived all of this already.

[Shane Battier]

It's Forrest Gumpian.

[Narrator]

Yes.

[Shane Battier]

It really is Forrest Gumpian.

[Pablo Torre]

You both met the president.

[Shane Battier]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

You both love running.

[Shane Battier]

So I tour China. So my karaoke story in China, I wore a Chinese basketball shoe called Peak.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Shane Battier]

Okay. Because Yaming was my teammate in Houston and they wanted a presence on the rockets, so I went there. I never heard of the shoe. And I had like 50 foot billboards in, like, every city you never heard of in China. And so I was very. I was very, very famous in China. Much more famous in China than it was in America. So whenever I go to a. A press conference in the city when I'm touring, there would be a bunch of reporters there. And they gave me the name Mr. President, because my cadence and the way I talk and gesture was like, Barack Obama.

[Pablo Torre]

I was gonna say, your sleeves are rolled up to your elbows. This is not a coincidence.

[Shane Battier]

So I would be in, you know, Ching Tao, and, you know, the, the press will go, Mr. President, Mr. President, how do you find Ching Tao. And I said, you know what? It has the most beautiful women and the best beer. And then I would go to, what, a politician? And then I go to Shanghai. Mr. President, Mr. President, how do you find Shanghai that has the most beautiful women and the best beer? Right? But they knew I love karaoke, and so I went to this beer, actually, the Ching Tao Beer festival in Chingtao, China. Beautiful, you know, beautiful city on the water. And they wanted me to sing karaoke. And so this is like a festival. And there's. I swear to you, there was like 20,000 people at this. At this festival, and they want me to sing Billie Jean. And I'm like, all right, no, no, no, no biggie. I'll do it. Well, I get up on stage and so I start singing. You know, she was more like a movie queen from across the scene. And all of a sudden, the. The words just cut out. And so I have no monitor.

[Pablo Torre]

Your prompter goes.

[Shane Battier]

My prompter goes. Dead.

[Pablo Torre]

The ultimate politician's nightmare.

[Shane Battier]

And so I'm in front of 20,000 people playing Billie Jean, you know, fumbling my way through this song, trying to dance to take the, you know, the ice off my horrible. It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare of. Of epic proportions to be in Ching tao, China, for 20, 000 people at a beer festival. At a beer festival with no words. But they. They still cheered for me. I actually. People don't believe me. I hosted the Chinese version of SNL.

[Pablo Torre]

What.

[Shane Battier]

It's called Happy Camp. They get like 100 million people. I. I can't make this up. They get 100 million people a week tuning in on Saturday night, and I was the host. I don't speak of Lick a Mandarin, like, at all. But again, I had a translator there on tv, and it's like a skit. It's a comedy sketch show. And so they wanted me to come and sing karaoke, so I sang New York, New York. You know, I came out of the. You know, doing the kick, doing the Sinatra.

[Pablo Torre]

And yet. Is that as weird as the time that you did this?

[Shane Battier]

Listen to me.

[Sports Commentator]

You can still be in the league. At the team front office core, you can have all you ever wanted.

[Pablo Torre]

So this is the voice of Daryl Morey.

[Shane Battier]

Yes.

[Sports Commentator]

I can't want it.

[Shane Battier]

Anymore.

[Pablo Torre]

So Daryl as the Good Witch and Shane as Elphaba, I suppose in. In this rendition of.

[Sports Commentator]

Oh, God, Close My Eyes and Leave, it's time to try by gravity. I think I'll try my gravity.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, Daryl wearing a blonde wig and a dress and you. I mean when I say that you sang your heart out with a broom in one hand.

[Shane Battier]

Daryl Morey is a very close friend of mine. I wouldn't be here without him. What I learned from him, and he actually wrote that he loves musicals. He loved musicals. So he and Ellen, his wife, rewrote the words to that and had an idea. So that was all Darrell's idea. And you know, I love that he put on the. The pink Linda dress. So that. That's an event called Badioche that we held in Houston, held in Miami. It raises money for my foundation, the Batty A Take Church foundation, given over $4 million in scholarships.

[Pablo Torre]

A remarkable the last decade.

[Shane Battier]

So it's. It's for the kids.

[Pablo Torre]

Daryl, on the one end. Did you blackmail LeBron and D. Wade to do Robin Thick?

[Shane Battier]

That was their. That was their own volition. The Badoki. We don't mess around.

[Pablo Torre]

I dare say that Mr. President has assembled a rainbow coalition of people to do the thing that you made peace with, which is humiliate yourself for a good cause.

[Shane Battier]

You know, you can never humiliate yourself too too much.

[Pablo Torre]

That is also a thing that we hear at. Pablo Torre finds out that we believe in Shane Battier. Thank you for turning this podcast into a very happy camp.

[Shane Battier]

Pablo, you're my man. I can't wait to do patrony with you.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, God.

[Shane Battier]

And I see you next time.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, God. I just felt. I just felt. I just felt the need for a towel. This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.

[Shane Battier]

Sam.