Multiversal Share & Tell with Wyatt Cenac, Domonique Foxworth, and Pablo/Yoda

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Pablo Torre Finds Out:

"Multiversal Share & Tell"

With Wyatt Cenac & Domonique Foxworth

Release Date: December 21, 2023

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Episode Overview

This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out features an unscripted, playful, and at times chaotic discussion between host Pablo Torre, former NFL player and writer Domonique Foxworth, and comedian Wyatt Cenac. The trio dive into topics spanning race and representation in football, the creative constraints of storytelling in the multiverse era, the brilliance of "Across the Spider-Verse," awkwardness around compliments, and the daunting task of New Year's resolutions—with humor, candor, and plenty of good-natured teasing. This “Share & Tell” episode leans into the multiverse theme, using it both as a lens for pop culture satire and for unpacking deeper social commentary.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Race, Identity, and Cornerbacks in the NFL

• [00:21 – 13:53]
  The conversation opens with banter about Domonique being nominated for president (“I would support a fox like me” - Domonique Foxworth, 00:38), joking about presidential power and encrypted cellphones, and a comedic riff on the rarity of white NFL cornerbacks.

  • Domonique and Wyatt riff on the persistent lack of white cornerbacks, and how racial bias—not athletic ability—likely plays a strong role in player position.
  • “It’s one like instance of reversal racism that I actually believe is real. Like, reverse racism is a stretch. However, racial bias is legitimate. You’re trying to tell me that in all of America, not one white man is fast and quick and smart and athletic enough to play cornerback?” — Domonique Foxworth [07:28]
  • Playful speculation about the origin of the name “Cooper” as a perennial “athletic white guy” archetype, referencing Cooper DeJean and Cooper Flagg [08:03].
  • Discussion about white cornerbacks' career paths being shifted to safety due to bias: “If they make it all the way through college, eventually they get moved to safety because only because of the complexion of their skin.” — Domonique Foxworth [10:44]

2. The Multiverse in Popular Culture & Constraints Breeding Creativity

• [14:49 – 21:22]
  The trio transition into a spirited analysis of the animated film “Across the Spider-Verse,” unpacking its success in a saturated world of multiverse storytelling.

  • Cinematic fatigue and innovation: Pablo notes that most multiverse stories have become tiresome, yet “Across the Spider-Verse” pulls it off with extraordinary creativity and emotional resonance.
  • “Creativity is born in constraints more than anything... If you give someone a blank piece of paper, they're less likely to come up with something amazing and creative... Give them like a blank piece of paper with rules…they’re more likely to come up with something amazing.” — Domonique Foxworth [20:21]
  • Wyatt explains, with comic-book expertise, how Sony’s rights to only Spider-Man paradoxically fueled creativity, leading to inventive, character-focused multiversal stories instead of “corporate synergy” character dumps [18:03–20:48].

3. Comic Book Artistry, Multiverse Tropes, and Storytelling Stakes

• [21:22 – 28:18]
  • Wyatt and Pablo discuss the beauty of varied artistic styles in the Spider-Verse movies and how animation uniquely manifests the multiverse theme.
  • “What I had not seen accomplished in this, in this way so successfully is...we’re going to visually depict and creatively interpret what a multiverse feels like by showing you stylistically how every scene can look and even have the physics of something that is different from the thing you saw like five seconds ago.” — Pablo Torre [23:31]
  • Wyatt notes that in comic books, he “always hated the multiverse. It always felt like the worst storytelling because...they’ve run out of stories” [25:34], but the Spider-Verse movies redeem the trope through artistic invention.

4. IP, Capitalism, and the Jonathan Majors/Kang Dilemma

• [28:29 – 32:08]
  • The group discusses Marvel’s challenge after actor Jonathan Majors' legal issues (Majors played Kang, the lynchpin in the Marvel Cinematic Universe's multiverse arc).
  • Domonique shrugs at the corporate hand-wringing over recasting: “Maybe it's the sports in me, but you got injured, you got convicted of a crime. Next man up...Make a good product...Get a dub.” — Domonique Foxworth [32:20]
  • They agree the “soap opera” nature of superhero franchises allows for (and even expects) recasting—what matters most is sustained quality, not continuity or sentimental attachment to a particular actor.

5. The Problem with Compliments: Sincerity & Rivalry

• [40:28 – 44:26]
  • Pablo and Domonique unpack why it's awkward exchanging compliments—especially among men or between friends.
  • Domonique: “I have been told that I’m kind but not nice. So...I’ll look out for you...I’ll take care of my friends...But I’m not here for the pleasantries...” [36:15]
  • Domonique finds “empty” compliments suspect and prefers candid, specific feedback.
  • Advice for giving/receiving compliments: "Don't compliment me immediately after I compliment you..." [40:45], and “...the worst is when something does not meet my standards. And then people say, oh, that was good. So, like, we're in content creation in general. And Pablo will tell me that something I did was good when I know that it was not as good as I wanted to be” [42:31].

6. New Year’s Resolutions & Self-Reflection

• [35:16 – 40:08]
  • Domonique announces his (quickly retracted) resolution: to be “nicer.” He swiftly pivots to “be more organized,” acknowledging self-improvement is an ongoing, imperfect process.
  • Wyatt and Pablo discuss the utility, or futility, of resolutions. Wyatt says, “No, I don’t make resolutions.” [37:58]
  • They reflect on resolutions as religious or ritualistic check-ins: “whether I stick to it...not, I think it’s a good time to reflect and think about what you’ve done last year, what you’re proud of, what you’re not proud of, what you need to work on and how we can all be more like me.” — Domonique Foxworth [39:18]

7. Memorable Quotes and Comic Bits

• “My Spider-Man is white. I have a white Spider-Man. I do not have a negroid arachnoid man.” — Wyatt Cenac (in character as an angry fan), [00:06] & [33:48]
• “Make Spider man great again. Make Spider man amazing again. Give me back my white spider man.” — Wyatt Cenac, [34:13]
• On the infinite proliferation of Spider-verse films: “Milling around the Spider Verse is really when...the series starts to just...we don’t need any more...” — Wyatt Cenac [15:41]
• On comic fandoms: “I’m not that big a fan that it’s like I care about the implications…These are movies. Even if there was not a multiverse and you’re presenting that, the fact that the multiverse exists makes it easier for them to write around it. I don’t give a shit.” — Domonique Foxworth [30:34]
• On feedback: “I don't need compliments. I don't want compliments. I don't care about it. Don't give me no compliments. We're good.” — Domonique Foxworth [44:26]

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Notable & Memorable Moments by Timestamp

• [00:38] — Pablo suggests nominating Domonique for US President; Domonique’s reaction sets the unserious, bantering tone.
• [03:39] — Wyatt muses on being (possibly) banned from MSG & Barclays; preamble to broader themes of exclusion, jokes.
• [04:14] — Discussion of Rashad Mendenhall’s “best of whites vs best of blacks” Twitter controversy and its joke-positive online outcome.
• [06:19 & 06:36] — Domonique plugs his own podcast: “Dominique Foxworth Show. Vote for him. 2024. Do not vote for me.”
• [07:28–08:03] — The “Cooper phenomenon” and real discourse on racial bias at cornerback.
• [18:03–20:48] — Wyatt unpacks Sony’s Spider-Man licensing and how constraint built the Spider-Verse franchise.
• [24:21] — Pablo lauds the “artistic density” and “visual multiverse” of Spider-Verse; Wyatt expands on comic styles.
• [32:20] — Domonique’s “Next man up” analogy for Marvel’s Kang recasting dilemma.
• [36:03] — Domonique’s New Year’s Resolution: “be nicer," quickly replaced with "be more organized."
• [40:28–44:26] — Extended, candid dissection of how to give/receive compliments and the social psychology of affirmation among men.
• [45:25] — Pablo’s thesis: Domonique’s affection is expressed most honestly by rivalry and teasing.
• [46:43] — Domonique refuses to neatly wrap up, subverting host expectations.
• [47:23] — Playful commentary on the “multiracial” Elf on the Shelf as a running physical gag.

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Tone & Structure

• The episode is comedic, fast-paced, unscripted, and somewhat anarchic. The hosts weave serious insights with self-aware, layered inside jokes and cultural references, often deconstructing the very format they’re using.

• The panelists constantly rib, interrupt, and play off one another; listeners get the feel of being present during an extended, whip-smart hangout.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a quintessential "hangout" in Pablo Torre’s universe—offering a rich blend of cultural critique, sports nerdery, comic book expertise, genuine self-reflection, and playful sparring. It uses trending internet moments (like the “whites vs blacks” Twitter discourse), the Marvel movie machine, and the art of giving/receiving compliments as springboards for a broader, deeper conversation about representation, creativity, and self-improvement.

If you want a thought-provoking, laugh-out-loud breakdown of multiverse storytelling and how race, sports, and pop culture collide—with detours into masculine vulnerability and the absurdities of ritual self-betterment—this is a must-listen.

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Further Listening

• Dominique Foxworth Show — for more of Domonique’s sports and culture takes.
• Pablo Torre Finds Out (movie of the year special) — for their extended love letter to “Across the Spider-Verse.”

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[B]

My spider man is white. I have a white spider man. I do not have a negroid arachnoid man. That is his name. Negroid arachnoid feller.

[A]

Right after this ad. You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network. I nominated Dominique for president this week.

[B]

Of the United States. Yes, I would. I would support a fox like me.

[C]

Would you want me to do it?

[A]

Because you have that reaction because you don't want to do it. I think you actually are so much better suited to do it.

[B]

Well, no.

[A]

All the other people who desperately want this.

[B]

But at the same time, the problem is, if Dominique were to run for president and Dominique were to win, then the Dominique that we know and love would disappear and die pretty quickly as he gets swallowed up in the political machine.

[A]

But could you imagine how fun it would be to just send him texts that he could no longer respond to? But you know, he's laughing at.

[B]

See? But that's only for a week. And then made me laugh.

[C]

Pablo, why don't I. Hilarious.

[B]

Second week, that phone. He's not gonna have the phone anymore. That number is getting destroyed. He's gonna get some new encrypted cell phone number. You don't even. I imagine Barack Obama doesn't even have a phone number. You just call the operator and you say, can I speak to Barack Obama? And they're like, who are you? And then you say who you are, and they're like, no, you cannot.

[C]

Why?

[A]

Why?

[C]

I got to follow Barack rules. Can I follow the modified rules that have been set by. By newer presidents? Do whatever the I want.

[A]

Maybe you want. You want the. The Biden rules where you're replaced by a body double installed by China.

[C]

So we just gonna pretend like there's not someone else who didn't respect any of the rules. Okay, I like that world. Let's pretend like that.

[B]

I appreciate that.

[C]

Good job, guys. I'm down. Yeah, that's it.

[A]

Sorry.

[C]

I'm.

[A]

I'm trying to appeal to a new demo in 2024.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

You've decided to go full Rogan.

[C]

That's right. Here's the. The cause. We've talked about it. White cornerbacks. That's the one. Cause that you can get behind as, like, an injustice in America.

[A]

I was laughing to myself yesterday, because as soon as. So I don't know why. Why it's not on Twitter. Thank God. Why? It's also for that reason, good candidate for a political office.

[B]

I like that you say thank God, but with no context. That could be thank God, because if I were on Twitter, I would become a giant troll and get thrown off of it. Or it's for my own mental health.

[A]

Right. Twitter could treat you like Madison Square Garden and Barclays center have treated you and banned you from entering its doors.

[B]

It's not 100% certain that I've been banned. It's just a belief.

[A]

It's a separate episode we're gonna have to do in 2024.

[C]

I mean, the Barclays one is pretty real. I mean, the MSG one is maybe not, but Barclays.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, the more we talk about it, the more that it feels like it's. They're. They're inclined to ban me.

[A]

Yeah. I think I'm saving that for our Martin Luther King Day episode. Spoiler alert. Knowing laughter from people who know the story. But what happened on Twitter this week was Rashad Mendenhall, former Steelers running back and guy I didn't know was on Twitter. I guess it started with, like, an annoyance towards white analysts, but it then quickly, immediately broadened out to just like, I want to see a game between the best of the whites and the best of the blacks.

[C]

This was the best. The only time in recent history that I feel like the Internet took something and made it better.

[A]

Yes. So this was a. For that reason, it felt pivotal because it had all of the. All of the feeling of like, this is going to be an exhausting Twitter threat experience, Wyatt, that I'm glad that you have missed. But it turned out to be a thing that people took immediately toward the realm of jokes. And it could have gone so easily. It was designed seemingly to go the other way. And instead, people are like, let's actually have this draft.

[C]

I mean, Jeff Saturday tried to say they get Mahomes. Stop it.

[B]

You stop it.

[C]

You stop it. I know the history of this country. Mahomes is with us, whether he wants to be or not. However, Mike McDaniel, y' all got them.

[A]

You're saying you have the same rule for your receivers that you do for membership on this team, which is that one drop really does matter.

[C]

It's not my rules. I don't make the rules. Y' all made the racist rules. You don't get to change them all of a sudden.

[B]

No, no. Yeah.

[A]

You're talking generally towards the people who are royally you all. Because I'm. I'm. I don't think I made those rules either.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

Here's my question.

[C]

Oh, no. I'm not in the mood to give out passes. There's one mother studio that I know is good by me with all issues concerning race.

[A]

Is it the non white elf on the shelf?

[B]

No.

[C]

No. He is terrible. Look at that. That makes me really uncomfortable.

[B]

He's a monster.

[C]

I need to know who brought him in here.

[A]

This is a spoiler alert for our Christmas episode.

[C]

I need to know who brought him in here. Cause if it was a white person, I don't know.

[A]

There are a lot of syllables in this elf's name.

[C]

That elf got a conch. I don't respect him because he got a conch.

[B]

Also. Yeah. Why is the elf on this duty? It feels like he's been relegated to having to be a snitch.

[C]

This is a perfect time. We're obviously doing a show now. I don't know when it started, but it's clearly started now. This is a perfect time to plug my own podcast because I, given that prompt, decided that I would have Ryan Rosillo on my podcast. And we, we definitely started with a little racial draft talk. So go ahead, get on that download rate review. Your boy just came on here and did he came to do. I'm done. Goodbye, Pablo.

[B]

Dominique Foxworth show.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Vote for him. 2024.

[C]

Do not vote for me.

[A]

I would never write in. Can we get a write in campaign for Dominique Fox? How many votes could we rustle up?

[B]

I feel like we need enough. I feel like whatever this election is gonna be, I feel like we don't need any joke votes.

[C]

Yeah, it's fair.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. This fed is playing around. Hey, all right. This was all a joke. No longer a thing. Cast your ballots for freedom and justice.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

The American way.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

Well, not all of the American ways.

[A]

Some of them.

[B]

Perhaps a better way.

[A]

By the way, relatedly, don't Google Jason Sehorn. Plus political opinions.

[B]

Is this now going to undermine the white cornerback flag that you were going to?

[C]

I mean, it's one like, instance of reversal racism that I actually believe is real. Like reverse racism is a stretch. However, racial bias is legitimate. You're trying to tell me that in all of America not one white man is fast and quick and smart and athletic enough to play cornerback? Not one. I think the, the Broncos drafted one. You can probably guess where he's from last year, Iowa. And then there's Cooper Dean, who's a monster in college right now. Quite possibly one of the best corners in football.

[A]

Oh, I didn't know about this.

[C]

Oh, you don't know about Cooper. Oh, he's an outstanding punt return. He's incredible athlete. There are highlights of him dunking on. He played basketball in Iowa, too.

[B]

Why has Cooper become the new name for, like, if you want a. A white teenager who is going to dominate athletics, it's Cooper flag and Cooper DeJean.

[C]

Or is it Connor?

[A]

No, it's Cooper.

[C]

It's Cooper. Okay, It's Cooper. They're both Coopers. I think it's because the popularity of hanging with Mr. Cooper.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Mark White people really loved Mr. Cooper.

[A]

Loved Mark.

[C]

And was Ronnie Pete's wife. What's her name?

[A]

Holly Robinson Pete.

[B]

Yeah. There were a lot of. There were a lot of athletic white babies that were conceived during the third act of hanging with Mr. Cooper or Born.

[C]

Maybe they just had it on in the hospital room and they're like, you know what? Let's name him Cooper. Anyway, the point about Cooper is I did a show with Bomani a couple weeks ago because we both are very big fans of Cooper, but we were anticipating. For the last two years, we've been talking about this Cooper kid. We've been anticipating that he's gonna get moved to safety. Cause that's what you do with white corners, right?

[A]

Eric Weddle, John lynch, my man Dustin.

[C]

Fox, he's the white corner, was drafted in front of me, which infuriated me. But we're friends now.

[B]

What's a Foxworth? That's the podcast that the two of you have that you can also listen to on draftkings. Net worth.

[C]

What's a Foxworth? Oh, gosh. Nope, I would never do that.

[B]

That would be terrible at DraftKings Network. Why don't you bring a suitcase? Two suitcases for Mr. Fox and Mr. Foxworth.

[C]

I would never do that as long as this elf in the shelf is in this office. The point I was gonna make is they did. They had already moved him to safety, and I think it was. Who was. It might have been Phil Yates. Pre draft stuff. They had him move to safety already. And it was like, this is absurd. He was the best safety in the draft. Like, no, he's one of the best corners in the draft. I am gonna have a march or something now.

[B]

Is the idea that safety is a. Is more of a thinking man' than corner?

[C]

It's possible that that is part of the rationale. I think that it's less of a positive. Like, that's putting a positive spin on it. I think it's. They look at them and say, nah, homie, you ain't going to be able to keep up.

[B]

No, I, I, I, I legitimately believe that.

[C]

Like, it's funny to say, I think.

[A]

Fast twitch in them legs.

[C]

I think, I think that is, it's just a, a racial bias. I think when they come in and they're really athletic cornerbacks and they get moved to slot corner or they get moved to running back, or they eventually, if they make it all the way through college, eventually they get moved to safety because only because of the complexion of their skin.

[B]

But I feel like somewhere, and he's never going to get a job in the NFL, but there's a black Sean McVeigh somewhere who would say, I'll take that, I'll take that white Cooper cup of a db and you're going to play corner because every, every wide receiver is gonna think they got two steps on you and you're gonna be like, remember there was, that, this was like a few years ago, there was this white track athlete who was just like dusting people like black Sean McVeigh. And it's spelled S H A U n.

[A]

Sean Jon McVay.

[B]

Sean Jon McVay. He is gonna like, he would have been scouting that white track athlete and been like, yeah, what's, how fast are you with some pads on?

[C]

If you talk to Dustin, the funny thing is all of the coaches that he had for his position and defense up until the NFL were black coaches. And then you got to the NFL and they was like, nah. These white coaches was like.

[B]

Buddy, yeah, this is a case for Deshaun McVay. That's better.

[C]

I like that better.

[A]

That's the winner.

[B]

Where is Deshaun McVay again? He's not going to get a job in this NFL.

[C]

But they trying to fire Mike Tomlin.

[B]

Which I know it's incredible. You think, you think Desean McVeigh has a chance if Mike Tomlin's on the hot seat? Just to go back to the Mendenhall thing. Did anybody, I feel like the other thing that we live in a world today where if someone really wants to do this, he could just go on Madden and build his all white Madden team versus his all black Madden team and not have to take this to Twitter. He could just get all of his, all of his jollies out by. Yeah.

[C]

You think that ain't been done?

[B]

Oh, I'm sure it gets done all the time.

[C]

And they have tweaked the sliders, I'm guessing. I'm sorry about making the no dog in you. What I meant to say Is that you don't have the drive.

[A]

Oh, I hate.

[C]

You don't have. You don't have the drive to get to the top in the same way.

[A]

I hate it when. When. When in reality, I got my license at, like, age 27 and can't even refute the stereotype. Very cleverly insinuated.

[C]

How dare you. Don't you. You monster.

[A]

You're lucky I'm so deeply post racial.

[C]

I know exactly what makes you the most upset is you pride yourself. Has a very good brain for thinking fast and making puns and connecting topics and making jokes. You aren't mad at me for the joke. You're mad at me because you didn't think of it. And it was good.

[B]

Yeah, it was good.

[C]

It was good. And he is currently trying to compute some sort of segue, because that's what this man lives for. Segue computation. Listen to the show. He just loves to connect topics and segue to new things. How are you going to take us from this vaguely Asian.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Elf.

[B]

The vague elf.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

To one of our topics for the conversation?

[A]

So just to recap, what you're doubting right now at the end of this is that I am not good enough at math.

[B]

It's like if you went to a sex party and they were like, you. You were at that sex party. You had a good time. And I was like, did I? I know. I was there. My pants were around my ankles, but.

[A]

So we should explain why we're talking about a sex party.

[C]

No, we should.

[A]

And it has to do with the fact that I wanted to talk about.

[C]

I still work for Disney guys.

[A]

Into the Spider Verse.

[B]

I didn't know we were rolling cartoons.

[A]

Well, into the Spider Verse is a cartoon, but it's also a lot more than that. And Dominique. I know. I've talked to Dominique a lot about into the Spider Verse, the sequel to across the Spider Verse, which is a.

[C]

Movie that is across the Spider Verse. We're talking about the second one.

[A]

Yeah. Into the Spider Verse.

[C]

No, no, the second is across. The first is into.

[A]

Oh.

[C]

Not that I'm a nerd or anything. I think. I think.

[A]

I don't know. You're totally correct. So into the spider verse 2018. Across the spider verse 2023.

[B]

Under the spider verse 2025. Through the spider verse 2027.

[C]

Can't wait.

[B]

Above the spider verse 2029.

[C]

Sadly, the next Spider Verse is not coming out for, like, 10 years.

[B]

I was gonna say milling around the Spider Verse is really when. It's really when the series starts to just. People are like, eh, it's fine. We don't need any more. We don't need to mill around the spider verse.

[C]

You're making a joke. However, it does feel like multiversal content. We are at the milling around stage generally, which is sad because I think it probably the comic book multiverse generally is in both of the universes of as far as DC and Marvel universes.

[A]

Correct.

[C]

And it could turn you off and sour you on going to see this movie, which is frustrating because it's great. Or I guess you don't go see it anymore. But watching it, it's on Netflix.

[A]

But that's the point though, is that, like, we've seen entire cinema cinematic universes be reborn and broken apart and reunited under the banner of it's multiverse time. And everything you knew is no longer necessarily the way it has to be. And so when I get the. The pitch of, hey, do you want the sequel to a Spider man animated movie where they're also doing multiverse stuff? But it's not the Marvel Cinematic Universe multiverse stuff. It's its own Sony meta multiverse thing. It's like, instinctively, the answer is no. And yet across and into the spider verse in reverse order, across being the one that came out this year. I somehow was even more delighted even because I would say the degree of difficulty on pulling off a multiverse thing at this point, after two years of all of this, really across cinema in general, that they pulled it off so.

[C]

Beautifully, I think it's a reminder that, like, no story is new. And the fact that the multiversal stuff feels new, it reminds me that lots of movies are the same movie, and some are done well and some are done poorly. So I think that because the multiverse is kind of a newish concept for, like, a plot line for movies, it makes it feel like it can be overdone. But, like, isn't every action movie fundamentally the same movie? But we still go see them, and there are still some that are done well and still some that are done poorly. The same with, like, rom coms and, like, maybe we've just birthed a new, like, genre of movie that can exist forever.

[B]

Well, it also, I mean, it's a weird thing that I feel like for Sony, they were in a really unique position because there's. And I'm. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna tell the story as well as the Planet Money episode that I listened to that really gets into this, which you should link to that episode.

[A]

Dominique's been a Guest on Planet no Death, Sex and Money.

[C]

Who cares?

[B]

Cut that part, but don't cut that part. The thing about Sony and Spider Verse with all these other multiversal things, they're just saying, okay, we're gonna have all these different worlds and we're going to just bring in all these different characters that we have. We just have thousands upon thousands of characters. Sony, when they got into their deal with Marvel for Spider man, they only had the license for Spider Man. And so as a result, when they started to see the success of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, where it was, oh, we've got Iron man and we've got Captain America and we've got Black Panther, they went and said, well, who do we have? And it was just Spider Man. But over the years, there have been all these different Spider mans, whether it was the Miles Morales Spider man or whether it was the Peter Porker Spider Ham comic books from like 80s 90s. And so it really had to focus them in where their multiverse was just based on one character, Spider Man. They didn't have all these other things where they were thinking about, okay, well, we gotta launch, yeah, Captain America so that we can start selling those Captain America toys. And then, you know, we've got to do something. Black people are gonna get on us, so we gotta get Black Panther going. And that's a whole new thing that we're gonna have to introduce people to. Not just Black Panther, but Wakanda. And then we're gonna have to have a lady hero. So we gotta do Captain Marvel and we're gonna have to introduce. Introduce that whole thing where it's all just like, you know, spider man bit by spider. Here's a black one, here's a South Asian one, here's a pig one. And it just, it. I feel like for them in that.

[C]

Way, I think that's a reminder that, like, creativity is born in constraints more than anything. It's kind of like the necessity is the mother invention type of thing is like, if you give someone a blank piece of paper, they're less likely to come up with something amazing and creative is rather than give them like a blank piece of paper with rules like you can only use these two colors, you can only use these certain shapes. They're more likely to come up with something amazing and creative.

[B]

That's what I try to tell myself every time I make something and a network executive decides to give me half of what I want. And I'm like, right, this is gonna really make me creative. And then I'm grumbling the entire time.

[A]

But, but hold on though. Because what Dominique is saying about constraint being like the mother of creativity is why I am fundamentally frustrated by the, by the multiverse. It's because there are no rules, because everything is possible. And so this notion of how do we build stakes, how do you create.

[B]

It's.

[C]

I mean, I think the movie where the lines. This movie solves that.

[A]

And, and that's, that's what was my. So I want to explain. So just the bona fides here of Wyatt and Dominique and me. Wyatt knows more about comic books than any other person that I am friends with. You've like read collected. You go back?

[B]

I've read three comic books.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I have read some. My Awl screen name used to have a bunch of numbers in it. They were X Men issue numbers for my just sort of credibility year. That's right. Dominique, restrain your erection. This is gonna get real, real hot.

[C]

I don't think it was this. I think it was the number of days you went without having sex.

[A]

And relatedly, I've seen every single MCU project. I'm a complete, complete us. So college, like junior year one day. And Dominique is the person who can't stop talking about across the Spider verse.

[C]

I love it. I watch all the movies with my daughter. She loves them. My oldest daughter, all the way back to. Well, she wasn't born yet, but we've watched all of the Marvel movies and we watch all the shows and series. I used to collect the cards when I was a kid. I didn't read so many comics. I read a few comics, but I was busy being awesome at sports and.

[A]

Getting girls having sex.

[C]

Yeah, that thing, that sort of thing.

[A]

But the point being, how would you explain Dominique across the Spider Verse for people who have not seen it?

[C]

It's good. It's great. I mean, I don't know how to explain it. I think it's the, the thing about it that I enjoyed is that there's a bunch of different themes that you can grab onto. I, I've seen it multiple times and I took my 64 year old mother with my daughter to see it. And my mom is like not into Spider man or comics or anything, but she's like crying because it speaks to relationships about letting go of your children and letting them be their own self. And so it feels like trying to explain art, like it's something you have to watch to experience. And that's the best advice I could give to anyone is I'm not going to explain it in a way that makes you feel like you have to see it, but it's combined with all that deep stuff. It's really smart and funny and. And good. And the main character's black.

[A]

Well, it's also, like, artistically ambitious in a way that feels unparalleled by any other movie I've ever seen. You know, sometimes in like, I guess in comedy, there's a thing about, like, joke density. Like, wow, there's a joke joke. It's like, it's very funny. This has some joke density in it, but the artistic density of just like truly an army of animators of different styles it. With the multiverse, What I had not seen accomplished in this, in this way so successfully is the. Is the premise of we're going to visually depict and creatively interpret what a multiverse feels like by showing you stylistically how every scene can look and even have the physics of something that is different from the thing you saw. Like, five seconds ago.

[C]

I was bitten.

[A]

By a radioactive spider. I'm pretty sure you know the rest.

[C]

Jerk.

[B]

Well, that was always the interesting thing with comic books. And I think what they did very well with both spider verse movies. And I'm sure it won't be as good in milling about the spider verse, but what they've done very well is lean, lean into that comic book, like, comic book illustration. And how can we Translate that into 24 frames per second moving picture? Because one of the things about comic books that was always, at least for me, an interesting thing was who's the artist who's illustrating this particular comic book? If it was Walt Simonson who would do Thor, it was a very specific style of illustration that I loved. And it was. There was nothing else like it, or there was John Byrne or Jim Lee, and they each had different styles. And so to see their take on, whether it was, you know, their take on Batman, their take on if they were doing something in D.C. or if they were doing something in Marvel, their take on the X Men, there was something that was always really fascinating to see, the approach they would take to it. And in a weird way, it was artistically a multiverse, because I'll say from the comic book side of things, I always hated the multiverse. And it always felt like the worst storytelling because it. It felt like the challenge of these things, which is this is a soap opera with superheroes that's been going on for decades and they've run out of stories.

[A]

That's exactly how it feels.

[C]

That's normally how it comes to be. Yeah, they've killed the characters you care about and they got to bring them back in some way.

[A]

Informed now by the intellectual property driven hunger.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Of having to like, we need some new stars.

[C]

I think in this case, in the movie case, it feels like it's just a result of like the capitalist impulse. And if you're going to consider something artistic, there's going to be some financial tie and it's about. To me at least it feels like it's about the, the value of that intellectual property, them not wanting to sideline it. Right. That's about, it's what it came down to. Because the right thing to do is once you've reached the end, is let it chill and bring it back 10 years later and then we'll all be excited for it to return, but they just generally can't because you got to pay me.

[B]

But at the same time, at the same time, it's weird to think about how we have doubled down on these superhero movies and created this system because everything you're saying, I think about James Bond is, is a version of a superhero character. And that franchise has been able to exist solely on, I mean, I think the obvious.

[C]

I think is obvious why is like they. Marvel was putting out multiple movies a year and multiple series a year. It's very different than James Bond putting out a new movie every, I don't know, five years.

[A]

I think Wyatt just birthed a new multiverse, though.

[C]

Oh, the James Bond multiverse.

[A]

The idea that all of them actually just coexisted in parallel universes, like this is a thing. No, but someone's going to money.

[B]

But it was Sean Connery then to, to the other guy and then Roger.

[A]

Moore and the other guy. I want to point out though that the reason that this idea had been sparked was not simply because I wanted to co declare with Dominique that Across the spider verse is our movie of the year. Get some like imaging on that. Pablo Torre finds out, declares it's the movie of the year.

[C]

It's because Claire said Dominique said that movie of the year. And I would like to follow him because insert that. He's the cool guy who wasn't reading comic books.

[A]

Definitely. Definitely.

[B]

That's. That's his quote. I enjoyed this movie also. I was definitely.

[A]

But the reason why we have to contemplate this is because there is a very inconvenient development born of like actual real life. Real life, which is that Jonathan Majors, who is Kang the Conqueror, who is the key multiversal figure in this MCU phase, has been cut loose by Marvel. By Disney. And it's because. And I'll just read it from the ABC News article, because he was from abc, I'm keeping it all in the. In the corporate family, Jonathan Majors was found guilty of one count of third degree assault and one count of second degree harassment, but acquitted of two other counts of assault and aggravated harassment. In a split verdict, both counts he was convicted on were misdemeanors. There's a lot more to this story. It's been playing out across social media in that very messy way that all tabloid stories do now. But this is a real story. There are real convictions. And now there is no more central character that was sort of the linchpin of this entire phase, which is not the most important part of the Jonathan Majors story. But it does raise the question of, hey, if you are worried about what's going to come of the Jonathan Majors character, it feels like the whole premise we've just been discussing, which is a multiverse where there are no rules and anything can happen. There should be a way for like, the MCU to just, like, explain this away somehow.

[C]

I feel bad going quiet on this topic because it feels like I'm leaving you guys out there to drive. But I do work for Disney. But that's not why I'm being quiet and being quiet because I don't care about none of that. Like, out of the. How the movie is going to the multiverse. Like, I don't know, like, to me, it, it, it's hard. Maybe I've never appreciated any piece of content or been a fan of anything enough to, like, be moved by the suggestion that someone is going to be removed from it.

[A]

Like, how dare you be a rational person about comic book movies?

[C]

Yeah. And so, yeah, I guess I'm not. Despite the fact that I've seen everything that they put out, I'm just not that big a fan that it's like I care about the implications. Are you put a new actor in there. These are movies. Even if there was not a multiverse and you're presenting that, the fact that the multiverse exists makes it easier for them to write around it. I don't give a shit. Put a new dude in there. I don't care. Make the movies, don't make the movies. I don't care. I'm be fine.

[B]

Well, again, that's the weird part of it where I find myself asking the question of what is the blueprint that they're following? Because again, these are just. These are just soap operas with people in tights and the Soap opera move is there's someone at the top of the show that's like, now the role of Dr. Johnson will be played by so and so. And everybody moves the on because yes, they're just. All they care about is their soap opera. And to your point, I think most people just care about the soap opera and you saw it even in the. Even in a totally different way where after Chadwick Boseman died there were a lot of people who were saying it would be okay for you to just recast this role to keep this franchise going. Which there's something that's a little callous about people saying that on like social media saying like it's fine to just recast it, but at the same time. Yeah, these, what, what these companies have established is that the characters are bigger than the people playing.

[A]

That's. This is part of the reason why there have been, I can only assume many stressed out high level corporate meetings about what to do about this.

[C]

Maybe it's the sports in me, but you got injured, you committed, you got convicted of a crime. Next man up. I think it's concerning to me or it's confusing to me. And I guess when you get so close to something, it feels different. If you are like in the movie industry or in the Marvel decision making room, it feels different. But the thing to me that is confusing is how they could want so badly to control the perception of everything and not understand the one simple fact that sports will teach all of us. It don't matter what you do, long as you win. Put out a banger. You can put whoever the hell you want in that. Make a movie as good as across the spider verse. No one will care if you put out a movie. No one will care about how gracefully you handle the transition of characters or no one will care about the how this person looks different. Make a good product in my sports parlance. Get a dub.

[B]

And the stakes though I feel like for spider verse were different because there's also. They're all the toys they can't play with. So they're confined to the ones they can. And while Miles Morales as a Spider man character is a pop has become a popular character. That's not Peter Parker.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's not the Spider man that most people know. So you have this different bar that is both high where you have to make something that is good enough that people accepted and appreciated as its own thing while also silencing all the angry white guys who were like, that's not my Spider Man. My Spider man is White. I have a white spider man. I do not have a negroid arachnoid man. That is his name. Negroid arachnoid feller. I have a white spider man. Make Spider man great again. Make Spider man amazing again. Give me back my white spider man.

[A]

I should point out that this has been an episode of Sharon Tell. We have disrespected the premise of that.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

So deeply.

[C]

We have.

[B]

You're welcome.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

The elf is watching.

[A]

However. However.

[C]

Okay, don't get nervous. You gotta. You gotta host through this. It's a little bit adversity. Just a little sound.

[A]

The reason why I am sounding. I'm sounding a little trepidatious.

[B]

It's a little bit of a weather.

[A]

Is because Dominique.

[C]

Don't give up.

[A]

His topic today was his New Year's resolution.

[C]

What it is.

[B]

Oh, all right.

[A]

Because this is the last episode of Sharon Tell for the year 2023. And so I am going to entrust Dominique to carry us into the new year, which is a terrible idea.

[C]

I've been driving the whole show. Pablo just hasn't realized it yet.

[A]

I might pull you over.

[B]

That's the title of the show is Pablo Torre finds out that Dominique has been running this show, Running this show.

[C]

Since before it started. You have no idea.

[B]

Pablo Torre finds out he's a puppet.

[C]

My hands are dirty. Okay.

[B]

You can find out more about that show on what's a Fox worth? From the DraftKings Network.

[C]

Shout out. Dustin Fox. White fox. Black fox. All right, here we go.

[B]

Diamond dust.

[C]

My New Year's resolution is to be nicer. And so that sounds.

[A]

Sorry. That was me laughing a raspberry into your face.

[C]

Thank you. I have been told that I'm kind but not nice. So, like, I will be there for you. I'll be thoughtful. Things. I'll look out for you. I'll take care of my friends. Like, give things off my back to people who need it. But I'm not here for the pleasantries. I'm not very nice. I'm not good on texts. I'm not, like, terrible. I feel like people who come across me assume that I am not kind, but, like, I'm thoughtful and kind. I'll do good things. Like, I. Well, anyway, I don't feel like I need to explain myself, but I do think that. No.

[A]

What are some of the nice things that you do?

[B]

This is all new to me because I feel like your texts to me are always nice.

[C]

No, I'm not nice to everyone on Earth.

[A]

We're getting to the Racial bias. And who Dominique is nice to over text.

[B]

I see he's saying you're the white cornerback.

[A]

I get a lot of this emoji. Just like, hand in front of face, embarrass me. I get a lot of that one.

[C]

So I think, just generally it's something that I like to work on. I think that I should be nicer. I think it's gonna last for a week and a half, and then I'll go back to being my true self because I. Cause I don't think I'm mean. I'm just short direct.

[B]

Yeah, I appreciate that.

[C]

Yeah. Efficient. Nevermind. New Year's resolution retracted. I got a new one. I want to be more organized.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah. It's a good one.

[A]

Could have helped at the top of this segment. Your organization.

[B]

That would have been helpful.

[C]

So how do you know that I was not just taking you on a roundabout way to demonstrate that I need to be more organized?

[A]

Who is inspiring these resolutions? Are you, Wyatt, a resolution person?

[B]

No, I don't make resolutions.

[A]

You said that with the gravelly confidence of when Liam Neeson was asked if he wanted to pay actresses.

[C]

So would you take a pay cut.

[A]

To kind of equal things out?

[C]

No. No. I think that was judgment. It felt like judgment. It was.

[B]

I never. I. I feel like I've never made a resolution. I've never really thought about it like that. And not. Not necessarily because of the whole idea that nobody keeps a resolution. But it just feels weird that if I want to do something, I should just. I. Like, I should interrogate judgment. What it is that I want to do, why I want to do it.

[A]

Noted.

[B]

And do that work. Not. Not look for a. Oh, not look for.

[C]

That's a real judgment phrase.

[B]

Yeah, damn right it is. Yeah. Not. Not look for a day where it's like, okay, well, I guess. I guess I'll do this, and then three weeks from now, I'll forget.

[C]

And I have to be honest with you, I'm not traditionally a resolution person. However, I do recognize that we are humans, and these irrational, like, landmarks and motivations are things that work for us. So, sure. I think that maybe you should make a resolution. Make it. Maybe it'll make you a better person.

[B]

Are you saying I'm a bad person?

[C]

No, you're the greatest person. There's only one bad person in here. You asked why I was here. I'm here because you asked me to be here.

[A]

This is in violation of your first resolution, which, admittedly, you did already.

[C]

I gave up on that resolution. But no, it's similar to the religious conversation that we had before. Whereas I don't believe in major religion, but I do like the idea of going to church because it is an opportunity to check in on yourself and remind yourself of principles that you do want to live. So I think the resolution falls in the same category. And whether I stick to it for the rest of the year or not, I think it's a good time to reflect and think about what. What you've done last year, what you're proud of, what you're not proud of, what you need to work on and how we can all be more like me.

[A]

I. I concur not with that last part, but with the idea that it's an opportunity. It's an opportunity to be introspective. I want to be introspective. About what about niceties was even briefly appealing to you? Because why? It's something I talk about with Dominique a bunch. Is the compliment.

[C]

Hate him.

[A]

How to give someone a compliment, how it makes us feel individually to hear feedback of a certain kind. And there is no harder person for me in my life to compliment than this mother right here.

[C]

No, I think he doesn't take a compliment.

[A]

Hey, I mean, actively fights it. Makes you feel worse for trying.

[C]

Yeah, because you don't know how to give a compliment. So there's a few ways that you can a compliment. First of all, don't compliment me immediately after I compliment you. If you felt that way, you should have told me that. Don't come in and say, oh, Dominique looks nice. Let me put that in my pocket. And I say, hey, Pablo, nice shoes. You're like, hey, I was thinking the same thing about you. Chill out. Let the company ride. Let the compliment ride you. Ms. I complimented first. You missed your compliment also.

[A]

What? Hold on. What if. What if?

[B]

That is like two people bringing desserts.

[C]

To a party out of here. That's not your job now.

[A]

Or alternate theory. You being so bold as to say something that was inside of your head has emboldened me to do exactly the same.

[C]

Well, then you should do it with the next person you see. Or the next time I see you, like, oh, you want to do you.

[A]

Want to pay it forward thing?

[C]

If it doesn't feel genuine, like in a drive through.

[A]

You want me to pay for your meal? You want me to pay for the guy right after?

[C]

Sure. Good. I don't care what you do with anybody else. I'm just explaining to you why the compliments. I don't receive those compliments. Well, because they feel insincere. It feels like it's like a platitude. Like, it's like when I say, what's up? How you doing? You respond with, I'm good. How you doing? You don't actually care how I'm doing. You are just like, responding in a way that people respond, which is fine, but I'm not going to be like, oh, yeah, let me mark this down. Pablo really does like my shoes today. That's all I'm saying. In other ways, you so, like, I don't really like compliments from people that. About things about that I don't respect. So, like, again, if Pablo's like, hey, Dominique, great fit. I'm be like, pablo, don't dress so nice. I really want Pablo to tell me.

[A]

For the DraftKings and YouTube audience, hypothetically.

[C]

Hypothetically, you got a sweatshirt with a pocket on it. It's cute.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

Hypothetically. I'm just saying I don't want to offend anybody else. We're good enough friends that I not can say that about you.

[A]

My sweater.

[C]

And then there's also corduroys. There's also the compliments that are the worst is when something does not meet my standards. And then people say, oh, that was good. So, like, we're in a content creation in general. And Pablo will tell me that something I did was good when I know that it was not as good as I wanted to be. So it's. What it suggests to me is a couple of things. One, either Pablo don't know what is good, or Pablo has a low bar for what is good for me. So, like, when I do something dope now, tell the truth. If I do something I think is great and you're like, that was great. Yeah, appreciate it, Pablo. You're right. But I do that's mediocre. Or okay, you're like, that was good. No, it wasn't. It was good for you. It was good for somebody else. It wasn't good for me.

[A]

If it hasn't become clear yet, Wyatt, what Dominique is doing at least with me, is he is constantly testing me.

[C]

Nice corduroys.

[A]

Thank you. They are wide whale.

[B]

Oh yeah, that's right.

[C]

What's that?

[A]

Why knows what's up like that company.

[B]

Like an 11 point.

[A]

That's right. Yeah, just like big ridges. Oh, big ridges.

[B]

Corduroys, like, like deer. You sort of like how it's like, oh, it's a 10 point or an 18 point buck. Oh, it's similar. Similar with corduroy.

[C]

You got thick cords Is what you're saying the thickest? All right, somebody's compensating.

[A]

Dominique is testing me, and he wants a specific. And it's not even just a specific compliment. He. He only will accept him at certain times. And so it's as if there's in front of me, to get back to a driving metaphor, there's a traffic light, and if I am powering through a yellow, where I'm like, ooh, this is on the fence. I kind of liked one thing Dominique did, but I know he is definitely unhappy with the rest of it. I'm like, do I say that it was nice? Because he's only gonna be thinking about how the light is yellow instead of green or red.

[C]

But the thing is, I don't need compliments. I don't want compliments. I don't care about it. Don't give me no compliments. We're good.

[B]

Here's what you could do, which is a little trick I learned, which is if you just tell somebody, hey, Pablo, you killed it, that can go one of two ways. You killed it. Could be, that was great, or you killed it. That was terrible. Like, you. You killed it. Like, and. But if you just say to a.

[A]

Person, like, we can't run this anymore. Like, we could.

[C]

We can't run this, it also feels like you're not.

[B]

You killed it. You killed it, man. Like, and it's just. And then it just. It walks away. You take from it what you need internally. I know. Yeah, that sucked.

[A]

What Dominique wants to hear.

[C]

So nothing?

[A]

No, he. What he tells me, and therefore I can only assume he wants to hear, is the following. Ring, ring, ring. You. I hate your show.

[C]

Nope.

[A]

Hang up.

[B]

Not what I want at all.

[A]

Because Dominique expresses affection in his most honest form through jealousy. And so when he admits that something is good, he. He expresses it with resentment. And so my favorite experience that, for me, I've not. My favorite. My favorite phone calls from Dominique are ones where he says, you, and then I'm left to piece together. Oh, he listened to today's show, and he liked it.

[C]

Not true.

[A]

Look at him. Smiling's not worth.

[C]

Okay, Paulo, you got me figured out. Thank you. Problem solved. The end.

[A]

I just want you to know, Dominique, that you killed it. I do want to say thank you to both of you for concluding the year 2023 with me, the greatest podcast.

[C]

Guest in the history of podcast.

[B]

That's right, facts.

[A]

What did we find out today, guys?

[C]

Oh, why are you always trying to make somebody else do your job? That's your Job. This show is called Pablo Torrey Finds out, Pablo Torre finds out Go around. No, I'm not. I refuse.

[A]

This is a group project.

[C]

That's my name on the show. I want this called PFDF fo. Then I'll tell you I found out. Until then. No, you tell me what you found out. That's the name of the show. That's why people come in here, right? You wanna know what I found out? Go to listen to my podcast. Dominique Fox from the show. Download rate, review you all that.

[B]

And also check out Dustin and Dumb on what's a Fox Worth DraftKings network.

[A]

I have never been so disrespected on my own show like this.

[C]

You disrespected me by bringing this. This what?

[A]

This multiracial vision of what elf elfdom might be like.

[C]

This elf with a comb through.

[A]

Dominique's still fondling this elf.

[C]

I just hate this elf. Why you got a comb through? He got stick his head in the.

[B]

Toilet like Malcolm X. I like the idea that for people who are watching this on YouTube as the camera cuts away at different points. At one point there was no elf. Then there's an elf on my microphone. Then it's moved to Dominique's microphone and hopefully no one has seen any of us move it. It just is creepily.

[A]

It's an open borders policy around our microphone.

[B]

Well, it's just doing what that elf does, which is just appear places where children don't expect the like, oh, they go in the closet and there's that weird elf. And then they're like, ah. And they're not going to go in the closet anymore. And then you move the elf to under their bed or something like that. You terrify them. Because that's what the holidays are about. It's about terrifying children so that they're always at a constant state of paranoia.

[C]

Anxiety. Elf.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What I found out today is that I currently feel like those kids.

[B]

You're on high alert.

[A]

Just real twitchy around both of you today.

[B]

What did I do? I. All I did was just.

[C]

He's being racist.

[B]

Oh, yeah, now I get it. I see it now.

[C]

I'm accustomed to this.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I grew up in America. It's okay, Pablo. Let's make you feel better. I'm sorry.

[A]

Look, I just want a white spider man. Wyatt, I want to say I admire both your comedic sensibility and your ability to channel terrifying white people.

[C]

You're welcome.

[A]

Great job, Dominique. Cool sweater.

[C]

I would take this off if it wasn't for the fact that it would make your ratings higher. I'll take it off on my own and throw it in the trash and reveal my sexy body.

[A]

Www.pablo.show. find Dominique's shirtless body. You don't see it in my newsletter.

[B]

Yeah, is that you're going to add an only fans to the to this where all of your favorite Pablo Tor finds out Guests will do cameos or Only fans.

[A]

Every guest takes a shirtless photo and you only get it if you subscribe to my substack.

[B]

Your your calendar. That'll be for 2024.

[A]

The Pablo Torre Finds Out Monthly Calendar Sexy Firefighters. Except it's just podcast guests. This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production.

[C]

And I'll talk.

[A]

To you next time.

[C]

It.