Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: "National Treasure: The White House's Dirty Takeover of Public Golf Courses"

Release Date: January 23, 2026

Host: Pablo Torre, with guest Garrett Morrison (Fried Egg Golf), and Damian Cosby (National Links Trust)

Episode Overview

Pablo Torre dives into the controversial saga of public golf courses in Washington D.C., focusing on the recent transformation of East Potomac Golf Links, now at the center of a high-profile political and cultural clash. The episode unpacks how the Trump administration’s real estate ambitions and personal passions have collided with the mission of the National Links Trust, a nonprofit fighting to keep public golf affordable and accessible to all. Through expert guests and detailed reporting, Torre uncovers how a literal and metaphorical dumping of White House debris—and the possible erasure of golf history—signals a deeper fight over public space, community, and the American ideal of "for the people."

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The White House Renovation's Surprising Fallout (02:02–05:58)

• President Trump’s $200M demolition and expansion of the White House East Wing generated mountains of dirt.
• "[Washington, D.C.] is late October... President Trump is renovating the east wing of the White House." (02:31)
• The dirt is being dumped at East Potomac Golf Links—without public explanation or transparency—disturbing regular course-goers and igniting conspiracy theories.
  • Notable Moment: Listener Josh Bard’s video of the site, which attracted unwanted government attention (04:06).

Public Golf as an American Ideal (06:10–12:19)

• National Links Trust (NLT) holds a 50-year lease (since 2020) to operate D.C.’s three municipal courses: East Potomac, Langston, and Rock Creek.
• Damian Cosby (NLT) frames these courses as community centers, welcoming all regardless of background (08:13).
• Municipal courses symbolize "affordability and quality of life," offering an antidote to golf’s elite reputation.
  • “Golf is one of those things that can be available to everybody, and not just to a select few.” – Garett Morrison (09:41)

A Closer Look at D.C.’s Beloved Courses (12:19–15:17)

• Langston Golf Course: Founded during segregation as a home for Black golfers, “the home to black golf in America” (13:54, Cosby).
  • “Langston was constructed at the site of the old D.C. trash dump... the historical importance of that facility can't be understated.” (13:20, Cosby)
• Rock Creek Park: Designed by William Flynn, an architectural legend; underscoring the historic and design value at risk.

Trump Administration’s Power Play (15:17–24:36)

• By 2025, the Department of the Interior (DOI) and new Secretary Doug Burgum move to accelerate control over East Potomac.
• "The arrival of another golf architect" signals intent for a full-scale transformation: Tom Fazio, renowned for luxury, Trump-affiliated courses, secretly visits as “Bill.” (16:27–17:04)
  • “Tom Fazio has an approach to golf course design that would not normally be associated with municipal golf.” (17:21, Morrison)
• White House ambitions align: transform East Potomac into a “Washington National Golf Course”—the kind of elite venue Trump has long coveted.
• The proposal includes an AI-generated logo and plans, signed by Trump himself on August 1, 2025. (26:20–29:07)

The Legal and Political Fight (34:53–39:52)

• Interior moves to terminate the NLT's 50-year lease only 5 years in, accusing them of failing to complete scheduled renovations.
• NLT disputes this, arguing delays are due to federal compliance red tape—explicitly provided for in their contract.
  • “One key phrase... ‘Time frames are general and subject to change due to compliance timelines or other circumstances.’” (36:52, Morrison)
• Government claims $8.8M in unpaid rent, but the lease provides offsets for capital improvements—the NLT says it has invested over $10M already (37:18–39:29).
• The administration does not respond to Torre’s questions—transparency remains elusive.

The Dirt (Literally) Behind the Takeover (40:25–44:44)

• Secretary Burgum suggests dumping the White House dirt at East Potomac to lay groundwork for renovations; Trump supports enthusiastically.
  • “Doug, that’s the best idea you’ve ever had.” (41:24, Morrison quoting Trump)
• Health and safety concerns: possible asbestos in fill dirt from East Wing debris.
  • "Politico has a headline: White House dodged East Wing asbestos permits." (42:05, Torre)
  • Neither NLT nor the public have seen test results about soil toxicity (43:04, Morrison).

The Unworkable Dream: U.S. Open at 'Washington National' (46:29–50:55)

• Trump envisions hosting a U.S. Open or Ryder Cup at the newly renovated course.
  • "A Ryder Cup is even bigger. The buildout for a Ryder Cup is absolutely massive." (48:40, Morrison)
• Practical challenges: physical space is far too limited; hosting would mean gutting walking trails, parks, cherry blossoms, and community spaces.

The Fate of a Public Treasure (51:56–55:54)

• Despite no clear plans to privatize, the administration may set green fees sky-high (potentially $1,000 for non-residents) while offering locals discounted, but likely much higher, rates (52:37–54:27).
• The future of Langston and Rock Creek is even more uncertain and opaque, amplifying community anxiety.

Emotional Resonance: What’s Lost When Community Loses (56:14–59:45)

• Damian Cosby’s emotional testimony on the cultural and personal significance of these courses to D.C.’s Black community and beyond.
  • "Langston holds a special place in the city. It's so important to honor that history... It's just really upsetting." (56:14–57:41, Cosby)
• Morrison and Torre reflect that “sticking to sports” isn’t possible: public courses are inherently political spaces in today’s climate and their preservation is a community imperative.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the dumping of White House dirt (literal and figurative):

  • “Who is Donald Trump dumping on?” – Pablo Torre (06:47)
  • “Doug, that’s the best idea you’ve ever had.” – Trump, on Burgum’s suggestion to move dirt to East Potomac (41:24)

• On golf’s role in society:

  • “Golf is one of those things that can be available to everybody, and not just to a select few.” – Garrett Morrison (09:41)

• On the course’s transformation:

  • “What if we could put more gold in your gold?” – Pablo Torre, on the Trump aesthetic (19:29)
  • “This is sort of similar to a lot of the logos you see at President Trump’s golf courses.” – Morrison (27:16)
  • “This is classic historical cosplay.” – Torre (27:31)

• On legal and bureaucratic absurdities:

  • “This is really the Pimp My Ride of addendums. What if you put another addendum inside your addendum?” – Torre (35:56)

• On possible contamination and community health:

  • “What is it exactly that I’m breathing in here?” – Pablo Torre (42:05)
  • “No one at the NLT is aware of what the results are of that testing had been. So we don’t really know what the status of this dirt is, whether it’s a danger to people.” – Morrison (43:14)

• On the emotional stakes:

  • “Langston is a special, special... Sorry, sorry.” (56:52–57:08, Cosby, voice breaking)
  • “You try to process everything that’s going on and just try to understand why. None of it makes any sense... it’s just really upsetting.” – Cosby (57:08–57:41)
  • “These are golf people… They like golf. That is how they want to affect the world, by providing affordable golf for people who want it.” – Morrison (59:34)

Important Segment Timestamps

• White House Dirt Dumping Begins: 02:02–05:58
• Intro to National Links Trust & Public Golf: 06:10–09:55
• History of Langston, Rock Creek, East Potomac: 12:32–15:17
• Tom Fazio/Trump Aesthetic Takeover Emerges: 16:20–19:02
• August 1 Meeting, Wash. Nat’l Golf Course Vision: 24:36–29:44
• Lease Termination, Rent & Legal Arguments: 34:53–39:52
• Dumping Hazardous Dirt, Health Concerns: 41:24–44:44
• Renovation Timeline & Tournament Dreaming: 46:29–50:55
• Public v. Private, Pricing Model: 51:56–54:27
• Uncertain Future of Other Courses: 54:27–55:54
• Damian Cosby’s Emotional Statement: 56:14–57:41
• Broader Reflections and Closing: 58:34–59:45

Tone and Takeaway

Wry but urgent, Torre blends humor and deep reporting to expose the collision between luxury ambition and public good. The episode places the fate of a city’s open spaces—and its heritage—on the public record, underscoring how easily the powerful can remake the landscape both literally and figuratively. The emotional testimony of Damian Cosby and the community’s precarious future give the story its heart: this isn’t just about golf, but about who belongs—and who decides what belongs—in America’s capital.