One Dream After Another: The Storytelling Secrets of This American Life's Ira Glass

Summary

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Pablo Torre Finds Out

Episode: "One Dream After Another: The Storytelling Secrets of This American Life's Ira Glass"

Date: October 7, 2025
Host: Pablo Torre
Guest: Ira Glass

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Pablo Torre sits down with Ira Glass, legendary host and creator of This American Life, to unlock the storytelling DNA behind the seminal radio show as it approaches its 30th anniversary. Their conversation moves across personal milestones, the evolution of broadcast storytelling, the current state and future of audio journalism, and Ira’s delightfully analog relationship with modern internet culture. Torre brings his signature wit and humility, while Glass’s candor and self-effacing humor provide deep insights into what makes great stories—and great storytellers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Ira Glass on Praise, Public Persona, and Longevity (02:10–06:02)

• Handling Praise: Ira reveals discomfort with the high pedestal fans place him on, preferring focus on the show over himself.
  • Notable Quote: “Given the way that my personality is built, this… this line is not working for me. Praise is not… is not. But anyway, I support you in whatever it is you want to say here.” – Ira Glass [02:13]
• Anniversaries & Longevity: Ira reflects on nearing three decades of This American Life:
  • “At one level, it feels like absolutely nothing. Like, most people who live to a certain age get to work their job for 30 years. And I feel like that’s, in a way, all this is… I think there’s something a little corny and off-putting about all the anniversaries that public radio shows tend to give themselves.” – Ira Glass [05:17]
  • Admits to a sense of fatigue and occasional existential uncertainty, tinged with gratitude and exhaustion.

Personal Life, Privacy, and Storytelling (08:07–14:52)

• Private Milestones: Ira discusses being married recently and his tendency not to publicly broadcast personal updates.
  • “I’m working many hours and trying to get out a show and then… I have some private time besides.” – Ira Glass [08:39]
• Storytelling From Life: Shares how his mother, a marriage therapist, influenced his view of relationships—contrasting “hard work” with the ease of a healthy partnership:
  • “I wonder actually, like, I don’t know, maybe the fact that these relationships were so much work was a sign and I should have gotten out and I shouldn’t have heeded that… Because this relationship I’ve been in has been so easy from the start. Like an old Broadway musical, what they say, like, being in love with somebody will be what every dumb song says, where it’s just very easy.” – Ira Glass [11:08]

Behind the Curtain: Public Radio, “Life Partners,” and Staff Dynamics (12:05–14:52)

• On the show’s move to a subscriber model (“Life Partners” now makes up a quarter of their budget) as traditional podcast funding shifts.
• Discusses the awkwardness of revealing personal milestones inadvertently to staff through on-air storytelling.

Ira’s Relationship with Media & the Internet (16:05–22:48)

• Ira is famously out of sync with much of digital pop culture, having watched little TV and possessing a very limited online footprint.
  • Never watched cable TV regularly; watched The Sopranos after coworker’s recommendation, then “the entirety of Gilmore Girls, The O.C., Buffy” thanks to his first wife.
  • Online habits: “I mean, I look at my phone when I’m on the subway… but then I don’t usually spend much time looking at it.” [19:18]
• Iconic Moment: A hilarious exploration of Ira’s ignorance of TikTok personalities like “the Rizzler,” and Pablo’s comfort in Ira’s “being out of touch.”
  • “I think that I’m in the wrong here. I think that it’s wrong to not know who that is… That’s actually the lesson that I’m getting from this.” – Ira Glass [21:14]
  • Pablo: “You should feel very proud that you don’t know who the Rizzler is.” – Pablo Torre [21:52]

The DNA of This American Life Storytelling (22:48–29:38)

• What Makes a TAL Story: “A good This American Life story has a plot to it. Like, stuff happens, stuff unfolds, it’s surprising. And then generally a good story, there’s somebody at the center of it who it’s just fun to listen to them talk.” – Ira Glass [23:23]
• Origins: Early days felt like making “indie movies for radio,” not anticipating the broad success.
• Music & Rhythm: Ira compares his use of music and rhythm to cinematic techniques—“music as in a movie, to pull you forward and set a feeling,” contrasting with his cousin Philip Glass’s aggressively non-narrative compositions.

Hosting Style: Intimacy vs. Performance (32:03–38:48)

• Host Persona: Ira envisions talking to one person, striving for conversational intimacy unique to radio.
• Coaching Pablo: Reflects on editing and performing, encouraging Pablo to dial down “TV” bigness for radio subtlety:
  • “Just get quieter and lean in on that line.” – Ira Glass [35:19]
  • “There is this unashamed occasional, just, like, stumbling around, like you’re not trying to, again, leave perfect edit points. You’re allowing yourself to even skate around as if the floor is a little slippery sometimes… total confidence and yet the texture of some uncertainty.” – Pablo Torre [37:07]
• Ira confirms this is intentional and partially scripted: “100%. When I’m writing the script, I’m thinking about all that because I understand the form… sometimes you just… pause and think and wait before giving the next thought.” [38:20]
• Acting vs. Authenticity: “There’s some acting, for sure… you’re performing a version of yourself… The show that we’re doing is entertainment, even though it’s journalism and it’s fact-checked and it’s all true.” – Ira Glass [38:57]

The Musical Turn: 21 Chump Street (40:21–45:31)

• Pablo marvels at the live adaptation of a TAL reporting project into Lin-Manuel Miranda’s 14-minute musical.
• Ira credits classic musicals (thanks to his mom) as imbuing TAL with a narrative arc that starts light and grows deeper—mirrored in “21 Chump Street.”
• Inside scoop: Lin-Manuel wrote the musical while still completing Hamilton, choosing a story with a teen serenade because “that’s what happens in a musical.” [43:14]

Ira’s Jealousies & Podcast Influences (47:55–50:09)

• Ira admits to feeling jealous when another show “just nails it,” highlighting The Daily's recent coverage as “optimal, very clean work” [48:15].
• Acknowledges The Daily as adopting the narrative structure that TAL pioneered.

Future of Journalism & Showmaking (50:18–54:42)

• Ira questions whether narrative radio suits this polarized era, and considers whether TAL should engage more in digital, video, or TikTok spaces.
  • Considers the challenge of crafting media that speaks beyond the ‘informed’ audience, pondering whether a fact-based, Rogan-esque show could succeed: “To make something else… could you make a show targeted at people who are not reading the New York Times and not interested in fact-based reporting, and make a show that is actually made for them?” – Ira Glass [51:57]
• Irony: Imagines a friendly, fact-checking “sidekick” show on the Joe Rogan model, with the likes of Bert Kreischer as host and nerdy journalists piping in with actual facts [54:31].

Sports, Satisfaction, and Signature Self-Effacement (55:43–57:37)

• Ira’s sports knowledge: superficial—“I saw the Super Bowl… And the only kind of sports thing that I ever followed at all was the Bulls back when Michael Jordan was there.” [56:18]
• Pablo ribs Ira’s “self-satisfaction” in only having experienced championship-winning Bulls fandom.
  • “Why are you watching? Why would you keep coming to games? It seems really depressing.” – Ira Glass [57:37]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Praise and Public Radio Celebrity:
  • “I wish that I was the sort of person who could be so comfortable with that, but I’m just gonna go with it.” – Ira Glass [02:54]
• On the Show’s Philosophy:
  • “Our premise from the beginning was that although this is on public radio, we don’t want it. We don’t want people listening. Cause I think it’s gonna make them into better people. We want them just listening. Cause they, like, hear a minute of it and they’re just like, what’s gonna happen?” – Ira Glass [39:11]
• On Intimacy in Audio Storytelling:
  • “I’m talking to one person… and I try to write the narration and perform the narration so it comes as close to my actual speaking voice, because I think that that gets to you the most when you’re listening to something.” – Ira Glass [32:36]
• On Allowing Texture in Performance:
  • “There is this unashamed occasional, just, like, stumbling around, like you’re not trying to… leave perfect edit points. You’re allowing yourself to skate around as if the floor is a little slippery sometimes… totally confident and yet the texture of some uncertainty.” – Pablo Torre [37:07]
• On Not Knowing the Rizzler (TikTok meme):
  • “I think that I’m in the wrong here. I think that it’s wrong to not know who that is… That’s actually the lesson that I’m getting from this.” – Ira Glass [21:14]
  • “Can we get that as the aggregated clip, Ira Glass wishes he knew who the Rizzler is.” – Pablo Torre [21:25]
• On Emotional Authenticity:
  • “This relationship I’ve been in has been so easy from the start. Like an old Broadway musical, what they say, like, being in love with somebody will be what every dumb song says, where it’s just very easy.” – Ira Glass [11:08]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:10 – Ira Glass on praise and public radio celebrity
• 05:09 – This American Life 30th anniversary reflections
• 08:07 – Privacy, marriage, and the personal as story material
• 11:08 – Relationships: Hard work vs. ease
• 12:05 – The business of TAL & “Life Partners” subscribers
• 16:05 – Ira’s analog life: TV, the Internet, and missing TikTok memes
• 23:23 – What makes a “good” This American Life story?
• 27:51 – Comparing TAL’s narrative to Philip Glass’s non-narrative style
• 32:03 – Host persona: intimacy, editing, “TV vs. radio” styles
• 35:19 – Coaching Pablo: Closeness and modulation in narration
• 40:21 – Lin-Manuel, 21 Chump Street, and musicals as storytelling models
• 48:15 – Ira admits to professional jealousy (The Daily)
• 51:57 – What if TAL had to be reinvented for today’s polarized America?
• 56:18 – Ira’s relationship to sports: Bulls and the Super Bowl only

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Episode Tone & Vibe

The conversation is warm, gently self-deprecating, and deeply nerdy about storytelling—shot through with mutual admiration and honest interrogation of the pressures and possibilities of modern audio journalism. Both Pablo and Ira deliver razor-sharp, comedic asides while dissecting their craft, honoring both the profound and the ludicrous in a rapidly-shifting media landscape.

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Final Moments

• Ira downplays the need for a TAL 30th anniversary party, but Pablo insists: “If your staff is too cowardly… Pablo Torre Finds Out is here to fill that floor. We’re going to unilaterally shove compliments down your throat.” [57:43]
• Ira: “Okay, well, thank you. I appreciate that. I’ll get back to you on that one.” [58:11]

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This summary captures the episode’s big themes and memorable exchanges, with timestamps and quotes highlighting the signature style and insight of both Ira Glass and Pablo Torre.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre finds out I am Pablo Torre. And today we're gonna find out what this sound is.

[Ira Glass]

And then we took it to another level.

[Pablo Torre]

And then we took it to another level right after this ad.

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[Pablo Torre]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really.

[Ira Glass]

Craving it and it's convenient.

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[Ira Glass]

When it's cravini, it. Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the.

[Pablo Torre]

Street at am, pm.

[Ira Glass]

Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can.

[Pablo Torre]

Grab in just a second at am, pm.

[Ira Glass]

I'm seeing a pattern here. Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

[DSW Ad Voice]

Crave, which is anything from am, pm.

[Pablo Torre]

What more could you want? Stop by AM pm, where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient.

[Ira Glass]

That's cravenience.

[Pablo Torre]

Am, pm Too much good stuff. I was trying to explain to our staff, like, why I was so excited to have you in. And we're all super fans of you, so just sit with our adoring and undulating praise the waves of affection we have for you.

[Ira Glass]

Given the way that my personality is built, this. This line is not working for me. Praise is not. Is not. But anyway, I support you in whatever it is you want to say here. Yeah, like praise isn't good.

[Pablo Torre]

That's not a great response. Praise. But I feel like you've had to manage those responses because people come up to you and they're like, ira, you are our public radio God. And to which you say.

[Ira Glass]

I don't know. I say thank you. That's so nice. I'm so glad you're liking the show. I mean, they don't say you're a public radio God. They say, like, they like the show or the show means something to them. It usually isn't so much about me.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, I'm here to make it about you.

[Ira Glass]

Okay. And I wish that I was the sort of person who could be so comfortable with that, but I'm just gonna go with it.

[Pablo Torre]

You're somebody that I came to relatively late in my study of how to do talking into a microphone because I didn't come up through the public radio. I'm gonna use sports metaphors throughout here, which is.

[Ira Glass]

That'd be great.

[Pablo Torre]

I think exactly what you came here for.

[Ira Glass]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Is deep sports references. But in the coaching tree of public radio, you are at the top. And I didn't enter that sort of structure.

[Ira Glass]

No, you weren't in our farm teams at the local stations. You were never in the. At NPR in Washington.

[Pablo Torre]

No, I. I'm somebody who only recently realized that there is. And I want to get this exactly right. There is a band whose genre is Chicago noise freaks named Ira Glass.

[Ira Glass]

I heard about this. I've listened to their music.

[Pablo Torre]

What's your review of Ira Glass, the band.

[Ira Glass]

Great. Seriously, if you have a band named for you and if that's what they sound like, that's hugely flattering. I thought it was great.

[Pablo Torre]

I agree with the scouting report. I find it very amusing that your general mean and tenor and vibe is, as our audience has now come to appreciate in this short time together. And they sound like this.

[Ira Glass]

That seems great. Like, really. What more could you wish for? Seriously. I don't know. Like, somebody explained to me that there's a sandwich that some restaurant in Los Angeles has where they name the sandwiches after different people on public radio, which already is like.

[Pablo Torre]

That is a really particular Fox News fever dream. Come. Come to life, Ira.

[Ira Glass]

And I think the one named for me is like a vegetarian sandwich in a way that connotes sensitivity or perhaps oversensitivity. And I feel like I'd much prefer this kind of music than to, like, some sad emo thing.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right.

[Ira Glass]

It would just make me feel bad.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, something that I appreciate about your show and this American life. It's funny if I get to introduce it to anyone at this point. It's coming up, the 30th anniversary.

[Ira Glass]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And that, to you, feels like.

[Ira Glass]

I feel like it's great. We got to.

[Pablo Torre]

We got great. Everything's just great.

[Ira Glass]

How does it Feel really. How does it really feel? Like at one level it feels like absolutely nothing. Do you know what I mean? Like, most people who live to a certain age get to work their job for 30 years. And I feel like that's, in a way all this is. And I think there's something a little corny and off putting about all the anniversaries that public radio shows tend to give themselves. The 25th anniversary of All Things Considered or the 50th anniversary, like, who cares? And then I'm like, I'm glad we got to do the show this long. Like that's in there too. And then also I feel like a sense of fatigue with doing the show. I feel like this is a very exciting time to be a journalist given the seismic changes happening in our country. And it's exciting to get to be out there documenting them. But also I feel a little exhausted.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, exciting. Feels euphemistic.

[Ira Glass]

What would you say?

[Pablo Torre]

Threatened to the point of economic uncertainty. And I don't know if you at this American Life feel that because you guys are a 30 year institution, but it's hard to ignore the general context of a celebration of something that's lasted so long at this level that is exhausting to make and so crafted that when I came to do a chapter of one of the shows.

[Ira Glass]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Recently.

[Ira Glass]

Yes. I, when you were on our show.

[Pablo Torre]

When I lived the public radio sandwich dream of being one of the slices of meat in a multi chapter fish, I came to appreciate how hard it is in ways that I always detected from afar but saw from the inside. And all of which is to say that the larger context is a bunch of people effectively look at public radio and these people happen to be in government and they're like, this should be in the trash.

[Ira Glass]

Yes. Or at least funded by somebody else and not funded by their tax dollars.

[Pablo Torre]

Is it weird to have a big party in that context or. No, that is not something that you feel like I'm not telling you to not. I want you to have the party. Because part of the premise here is like, you know, this is imperiled.

[Ira Glass]

I mean, our show is not imperiled. I will say, like we didn't get any federal money, so we weren't touched by the federal cuts. I mean, some of the member stations obviously are in, are in way more desperate trouble and we feel mindful of that. But we have not planned a party to celebrate the 30th anniversary. But partly that's out of being on deadline with other stuff and partly it's About a feeling of, I'm not into these things, like patting ourselves on the back, but maybe we should have a party or something. If we do, I'll be sure to let you know and you can come.

[Pablo Torre]

Part of the comedy, though, of me getting to know you in the way that I have in the last several months has been not only how I relate to just feeling so busy making the show that you love that you don't have time to necessarily take the big view of everything.

[Ira Glass]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And I want to talk to you about that. But it's also the way in which you personally, in ways that, again, I can kind of relate to, are like, casually telling me, oh, yeah, I'm getting married next week.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

And you did.

[Ira Glass]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And this wasn't. I don't know, I just get the sense that you're not someone who's like, I want everybody to know that I'm going through an amazing milestone life event, and I want all of the likes on Facebook, the whole receiving praise, receiving literal bouquets. Figurative bouquets.

[Ira Glass]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

That's not your comfort zone.

[Ira Glass]

It's not my comfort zone, no. But I'm not hiding anything. It's just like, that's not my go to. I feel like I'm working many hours and trying to get out a show and then. And like, I have some private time besides.

[Pablo Torre]

What's private time like, though, private time.

[Ira Glass]

Has been wonderful since, you know, I met this person and we're married, and it's been really sweet in a way that I don't take for granted.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't want to be so prying as to immediately just be uncomfortable in the prying.

[Ira Glass]

You should. Yeah, I'll answer anything. I really will.

[Pablo Torre]

Having listened to your show, I feel obliged to be as prying as you are with Mahmoud Khalil and other such figures that I've appreciated you profiling, and that's such a hallmark of what you do. What about your wedding felt the most like, ooh, this could be a story that I want people to know about.

[Ira Glass]

Oh, wow. I didn't think about any of it as a story that I could put out there. I mean, the wedding itself. We've got a City hall wedding in New York City, and it's an incredible scene. And when we were there, I did think, like, this is a good story.

[Pablo Torre]

You have this paper quarter out for.

[Ira Glass]

A second, kind of. Yeah. Like, because it's people getting married at all ages and all different parts of the city and just, like every different group you can imagine, and pregnant brides and super young brides and very old couples. And just. It's so sweet. And you just feel like you're part of this thing. So it's like. It's really like a very. It's a very romantic scene. And somebody could do some sort of story there. I mean, you'd have to go in with a mission on, like, what is. And you'd want to find out, or who would be a character to follow. The thing that has seemed most like something that you could write about for the radio, though, that has more emotional substance is. Is that my mom was a marriage therapist and published a book and did research, and there isn't enough coupled centered time. What's the solution? So I think that the solution is to create some structure, to have some couple centered time, not for the sake of meeting the husband's needs, but for the sake of meeting both of their needs in a caring way and in a fun way.

[Pablo Torre]

Part of the thrill of an affair.

[Ira Glass]

And she was very much of the mind that you should try to make your relationship work out. And in various other relationships, including my first marriage, I wonder now if we spent too long trying to make it work out. Like, everybody learns now, like, oh, relationships are tough and you've got to work. And I wonder actually, like, I don't know, like, maybe the fact that these relationships were so much work was a sign and I should have gotten out and I shouldn't have heeded that, and that we all are sort of conned by the idea of relationships are hard. Because this relationship I've been in has been so easy from the start. Like an old Broadway musical, what they say, like, being in love with somebody will be what every dumb song says, where it's just very easy. And when there's conflict, we sort of listen to each other and we, like, talk it out, and it's done in an hour. And there aren't really conflicts, really, to speak of. And at some point I thought, like, maybe there's some way to write that into a story in the show. Because for me, it's been sort of a paradigm shift in how I think about what a good relationship is.

[Pablo Torre]

One of the things I listen to on your show as one of the. I'm a paid subscriber.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, we have this thing that we started this last year because the podcast business has been harder to make money. And so we had people subscribe, and thankfully, like, people have stepped up, and.

[Pablo Torre]

It'S now life partners.

[Ira Glass]

Life partners is what we call it. And. Yeah, and they're. They're Like a. It's now become like, a fourth of our budget.

[Pablo Torre]

That's incredible. And I also study, just in so far as I can, like, how you guys create a business out of something that feels very hard to monetize from the outside. I say all of that to say that one of the things I heard on the Life Partners episodes was a recollection from your staff about how they learned that you had separated from your first wife.

[Ira Glass]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And how it had happened. And in a way that I see some of myself in. Not that I. Happily married. Godspeed. Love you, Liz. But just the question of, like, something happens in your life and you're so consumed by work that sometimes the way that your staff discovers things about you is almost in the casual aside of your interactions.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah. You're referring specifically to this thing which happened, which is that I separated from my first wife. And we were separated for two or three years at that point, and trying to work it out, going to therapy and trying to get back together, but living in separate houses. And I hadn't told anybody on my staff, and. Because I just felt like I'm their boss. And it just seemed. I just seemed, like, a little oppressive to have your boss come in and tell you his sad sack story and seek your sympathy or something. And I just felt like, I'm just gonna keep this very professional. But then there was a story that I put together in a couple of days because somebody I was very close to died, and I wanted to write a remembrance of her, and it fit into that week's theme. And as part of that, I had to reveal that one of the things that had happened is that she had. This is a woman who was in her 80s, who was one of my neighbors. And this woman in her 80s basically became the person who I talked to every day at the end of the day instead of my wife. And just in the way this story laid out, it was important to just kind of reveal that and reveal kind of how she had stepped in for certain things in place of my wife, this friend who was in her late 80s. And the first time I read that in an edit, you know, to. To just read it to people, see if, is this working, what changes we should make? That was like, I had to tell them before I read it of, like, oh, by the way, like, there's some personal stuff here that you guys don't know that I'm gonna be letting you and the radio audience know.

[Pablo Torre]

Did you find it funny at the time in any regard, or. No. This all sort of occurred to you later in the way that I'm laughing at you now.

[Ira Glass]

Actually, no, I understood that it was ridiculous. I mean, I felt my friend had just died, so I was pretty sad for my friend. But like. But, like, I understood how absurd that is.

[Pablo Torre]

It's absurd, but also, like, the thing, I relate to you in ways that I'm uncomfortable to fully admit until now on microphone, that I think that's how.

[Ira Glass]

It would go for me, really. Part of me is editing this in my head, and I was like, oh, no, I didn't give you a good beginning to this show. And if you want to go back at the end and redo it, I'm happy to do it.

[Pablo Torre]

We're going to keep you contemplating aloud whether we are structuring this well enough. That's my job, by the way, to be self conscious. And I am doing that. And it's funny to have two people at the desk for the first time, both wondering, ooh, should we edit that part out?

[Ira Glass]

No.

[Pablo Torre]

Did we get that?

[Ira Glass]

Did we learn that? Can we learn that?

[Pablo Torre]

Part of the reason why I want to just, like, see into your brain is because it's a brain that I admire. It's a brain that I want to sort of make mine more like. And also, I just think it's comically different. For all of the similarities that we do share, the question of when did you know you wanted to get Ira into the studio and talk to him? It was when I asked you, like, about the last time you watched television.

[Ira Glass]

You and I, like, met for the first time and went out for a drink. Yeah. And you asked me when was the last time I watched television. And at that time, I'm not sure if I had watched it in months. And I've never seen cable TV for more than a minute. That was the day that you had been on cable tv.

[Pablo Torre]

I had just done msnbc. And I was talking about. I think I said to you, I was just talking about Jeffrey Epstein for reasons that also kind of escaped me now that I try to remember why.

[Ira Glass]

Well, that was the subject on MSNBC that day. That was a couple months ago. That was the hot story.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. And I was talking about it in my capacity to just talk endlessly in ways that are baffling, which I can.

[Ira Glass]

Say was so interesting to me, that you were going on. I was like, I literally would not know. I would not know how to prepare or what in the world to say on television. Like, I'm a heavy news consumer. Like, I'm reading everything, but I wouldn't Know like what to. And then. Yeah, like I have never really watched. I mean, I've watched like a minute.

[Pablo Torre]

A minute of cable television as a concept.

[Ira Glass]

I mean, like I've watched, you know, I mean, I'm sure there's, there's a. There's like an episode of Rachel Maddow here and there back in the day during the first Trump administration. Because I was curious to see, like, you know what I mean? Like, like occasionally be the thing I would turn on CNN for, like to see a particular thing I'm curious about. But no, like I, I just like. No, I've never. No, I, I never got into the habit of it. And there was like a. There was. Yeah, like I just didn't, I didn't, like I didn't own a television right when I went to college. I mean now like kids are different, but like I'm really old. I went to college in the 70s and so you'd go to college and you just wouldn't have a tv. That was like a normal thing. Like you had a TV at your parents house. And so. And then I never got one cause I was busy. And then I got a TV when the Sopranos came on and because I. Because somebody I work with, Nancy, informed me that like something is good on tv. Like nothing had ever been good on TV before that. But like now there's something actually worth watching. And so I bought a television to watch.

[Pablo Torre]

Specifically the Sopranos?

[Ira Glass]

Yes. But then it didn't spread. There wasn't anything else on. I guess I could have tried Oz or something. And then like. And so now like.

[Pablo Torre]

Do you regret the purchase of the television?

[Ira Glass]

No, no, no, no, no, I loved it. No, like I love watching some of the shows.

[Pablo Torre]

The Sopranos lived up to the hype.

[Ira Glass]

Totally. Yeah, of course.

[Pablo Torre]

And then Sopranos. But hold on, you just sort of tossed off it's the Sopranos. But then nothing else has risen to that level.

[Ira Glass]

No, no, no, lots of shows are good. No, I like lots of shows. And in my first marriage, my wife really love TV and we watched a lot of tv like we like. And at the time it was like all the, like the OC and Gilmore Girls and like I've seen all of that.

[Pablo Torre]

What is your media. I mean, your general cultural consumption has gone from the Sopranos, maybe a minute of Rachel Maddow into the entirety of Gilmore Girls.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, no, I've seen all of Gilmore Girls in the OC and like there's a bunch. Buffy. I've seen all of Buffy. But that's all because of my first wife, though I really do love those shows, you know? And then, like, there's other shows that.

[Pablo Torre]

I've seen that you name, because they are.

[Ira Glass]

If I thought about it for a second, I could remember. And, like. And right now, like, my wife and I are constantly looking for something to watch, and I feel like we're not watching enough tv, that we should be watching more tv. And I'm also not spending enough time online. Like, I'm so not online.

[Pablo Torre]

What is your relationship with the Internet? Like?

[Ira Glass]

I mean, I look at my phone when I'm on the subway or when I'm between places, but then I don't usually spend much time looking at it. Like, again, I'm somebody who's perpetually a little overwhelmed with my job. And then I haven't, like, I haven't been on TikTok enough to develop an algorithm which is delivering to me what I want. So basically, I'll go on and look at Gaza stuff, and then I'll go on and look at all the Charlie Kirk stuff. Like, I just want to see what's happening and see what everybody else is seeing. But then I don't go on in the kind of, like, random scrolly way, though. Sometimes I'll remember, like, I'll be trying to fall asleep, but I can't fall asleep, and I've got nothing to read. And I remember, like, oh, I could look at, like, I could go onto Instagram, couldn't I? And I feel like there have been, like. I mean, I know this makes me sound like I'm from another planet, but, like, there's been, like, two times in the last year where I remembered to do that. And then I went on, and then Instagram serves me up a lot of, like, comedians. Like, the algorithm has me pegged as, like, there's a lot of Taylor Tomlinson and Mike Birbiglia and, you know, John Mulaney stuff.

[Pablo Torre]

Sure, sure. Can I ask you. And this is a thing we'll sort of show our YouTube audience as it happens. Can I ask you if you recognize this person? You said, in your problems, I'm here to give you free advice.

[Ira Glass]

How can I get my money up? Not my funny up.

[Pablo Torre]

You need a chill, bro.

[Ira Glass]

Let's go mad. Oh, he's hitting the gritty. My sister pours her milk before the cereal.

[Pablo Torre]

So she pours the milk, then the cereal.

[Ira Glass]

That's diabolical.

[Pablo Torre]

Do you have any idea who that.

[Ira Glass]

No. Okay. Who is it?

[Pablo Torre]

It's the Rizzler.

[Ira Glass]

I mean, I'm not online. Like, I'm not. And I feel a little embarrassed that this is like now going to be a public fact about me, because there's no, there's no upside to that. There's. There's no looking cool about that. That's definitely uncool. The phone is there for entertainment.

[Pablo Torre]

I love how self conscious you have just become about not knowing who the Rizzler is. I consider it, frankly, the only hope I have left in the American cultural institution. Institution.

[Ira Glass]

But I think. Can I say I don't. No, no, no. I think that I'm in the wrong here. I think that it's wrong to not know who that is. Like. Like I feel like I'm not spending enough time online. That's actually the lesson that I'm getting from this.

[Pablo Torre]

Can we get that? As the aggregated clip, Ira Glass wishes he knew who the Rizzler is.

[Ira Glass]

That's true, though. That's a factual statement. I'm. I stand by. I'm pro knowing who the Rizzler is. I don't want to weigh him.

[Pablo Torre]

You don't want to co sign all of his political beliefs, which are expansive.

[Ira Glass]

No, but I want to know who he is.

[Pablo Torre]

I am so interested as to.

[Ira Glass]

Wait, how should I feel about this?

[Pablo Torre]

I think you should feel very proud that you don't know who the Rizzler is.

[Ira Glass]

Why would I be proud of that? Of being out of touch?

[Pablo Torre]

Because I feel like what it is to be in touch is not so much a consensual experience even. It's just an experience we've all experienced because the algorithm has put the Rizzler in front of us. And therefore we all, everybody behind the glass knows who the Rizzler is.

[Ira Glass]

Right.

[Pablo Torre]

And you opting out because your bar is somewhere between sopranos and the O.C.

[Ira Glass]

It'S not because of my bars. It's because I'm like, not that, but I don't know. I just never got into the habit of. It is the truth. And then, I don't know. I have other stuff that I'm worried about and thinking about. Do you know what I mean? Like even getting even, like, you know, like when I'm scrolling. Basically, I'll just go into the different. You know, go to the New York Times and the Washington Post and Wall Street Journal and see what's happening. And there's a lot of news. And that really can fill all your. Like, that easily fills like 30, 40 minutes of like, screen time. And then that's what I got you.

[Pablo Torre]

You live a life that is Extraordinarily different from mine. And I say that as somebody who's. Whose show also, like, is meant to be a container for all of my interests. The Internet being a key membrane that just like covers all those interests is one thing. But in your case, I feel like part of why I admire your show is that it can be about literally anything. And that's something else that I just like, really strive for in the show that I do here. How do you explain to someone what a good this American life story is?

[Ira Glass]

A good this American life story has a plot to it. Like, stuff happens, stuff unfolds, it's surprising. And then generally a good story, there's somebody at the center of it who it's just fun to listen to them talk.

[Pablo Torre]

When did it become apparent that you knew what your show was?

[Ira Glass]

I mean, different ver. Like from the beginning, I and my coworkers, we kind of knew what it was. I mean, the thing was, it was, it was, you know, we knew we wanted to make stories. Like, what would be different is that we were doing a kind of storytelling that nobody was doing on the radio that we wanted. Just like, just, you know, from the moment that I start talking at the beginning, that we're pulling you into kind of one dream after another and you just get caught up in and you want to find out what's going to happen, and that's that. Hamed's got the vibe of a guy who can handle anything. A beefy Tony Soprano type, but without the menace. We're in this big white four wheel drive pickup truck that he tools around in me and him and a producer, Sausan Ghoul. And Ahmed's task this morning requires ingenuity. His task, he's got to get to work. And at the time, nobody else was really doing it, except for maybe Garrison Keillor, who had a show called Praying Companion. And even that you'd have to listen through a lot of music to get to the story part. And it just seemed like this seems like a thing that this medium is really suited for that nobody uses it for, which is really a weird thing. Step one, get himself out of Hebron, the city where he lives. This is in the west bank, so movement on the roads is controlled by the Israeli army. And every day the army changes which exits out of the city are open. So I checked on other people heard us doing it. They're like, oh yeah, this medium is really good for that. And like. And then other people started doing their versions of it, which honestly is gratifying.

[Pablo Torre]

To have many people copying you, stealing your.

[Ira Glass]

I don't view it as copying, stealing. I just view it as, like, people are coming to the same conclusion that this feels like a thing. Like, when we started it, it was me and Tori Malatea, who ran WBEZ in Chicago, who I make fun of at the end of each episode and our view of what the show was. We had this feeling of, like, he and I felt like, well, we like this kind of thing, but we felt like it was like an indie movie or something. Like, there'll be, like, some people who will like this. And we really didn't expect the kind of mass market success that it got. Like, we really. And our business projections were all like, if we can just get on 60 stations by the end of. I can't remember if it was one year or two years, you know, we were on hundreds of stations by the end of a year. You know, just like, it was just. It turned out to be much more popular than we thought.

[Pablo Torre]

And that was surprising to you, that it was that broadly resonant?

[Ira Glass]

It was surprising, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

So part of what I. I think is so obvious now is something that you just referenced as. As a way of characterizing Garrison Keiller's work, which is the musicality of it. And he uses music in a way that is different from how you use music. Yeah, but it's really hard for me to divorce your style of production from the premise of what music is. You are so deliberately rhythmic and precise and designed for the ear. And was that always something? Does that make sense? The way I'm saying.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, the way I'm performing, the way I'm talking on the air, the way we use music. I mean, we use music the way you use music in a movie. You know what I mean? Like, to pull you forward and set a feeling and to go away and leave you with silence for a dramatic moment, bring it back to the pot, pick up again. It's all designed for that. It's all designed to just kind of pull you into the dream.

[Pablo Torre]

That's the. That I found most revelatory. When I first started, like, when I first smoked some of this American Life, I was like, whoa, it's cinematic. Everything I do on this show, when it comes to, like, editing and scoring and structuring, evokes the language of cinema. Maybe because that's, to us, maybe the most potent version of it. Yeah, but for you, there's also just. So the whole Philip Glass thing.

[Ira Glass]

Philip Glass? My cousin, the composer.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, that thing.

[Ira Glass]

I don't know why I'm IDing the characters who you're bringing on as if I'm hosting the show, but I'm throwing you alley.

[Pablo Torre]

Oops. And you're dunking it. Genuinely, it's, thank you for doing that. I need that. But Philip Glass, the composer, your cousin. If you're to explain this American life in relation to Philip Glass, is there a way that would make sense to an outsider who needed Philip glass to be ID'd for them?

[Ira Glass]

Explain our show in relation to his work. I mean, his work is so aggressively non narrative.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Ira Glass]

I mean, when he does an opera like Einstein on the beach or, you know, Akhenaten or like any of the big incredible operas, like, I'm a fan of his music, they are very much not telling a story and they are not developing characters and they are not giving over.

[Pablo Torre]

They're not id' ing necessarily in the way that you have helpfully been id'.

[Ira Glass]

Ing. Exactly. Like, yeah, they're just sort of creating a space and a feeling. And then you sit inside this feeling, and then you sit inside this other feeling. Then you sit inside this other feeling and you just experience them. I mean, and it's no coincidence that he's like a practicing Buddhist and like, has been for decades and decades, you know, and it's just, he just drew completely the opposite conclusions about narrative. To him and the people he collaborates with, like, those kinds of stories seem really corny. It just seems really, really corny. And my conclusions were it would be exciting to do narrative in radio. Like, radio is so. Is so suited for it.

[Pablo Torre]

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[Pablo Torre]

When you imagine yourself in your mind's eye as you're listening to your own show, what is the platform? What is the setting that you as the host are coming to your audience from?

[Ira Glass]

Are you saying like, like where do I picture, like I'm sitting or I've.

[Pablo Torre]

Been told like, hey, if you want to be real conversational sounding, imagine that you're at the end of a bar talking to a friend. Or it's like there's someone on stage behind a podium or they're making an address or they're a stand up, you know, talking to an audience. How do you envision or do you envision yourself in any particular way?

[Ira Glass]

I do envision something. I mean, it's not a visual picture, but in my mind I'm talking to one person, like radio. Like right now as I'm speaking, I'm speaking in the tone that I speak when I'm talking to one person. And I try to write the narration and perform the narration so it comes as close to my actual speaking voice, because I think that that gets to you the most when you're listening to something. And. And so everything is designed to feel like that. And we have some people who are on the show who perform in a more stylized way. And that can be fun too. And you perform in a more stylized. And you perform not like you're like, talking in a real conversation over a drink. You perform like somebody doing a show. There's a lot of TV in the way that you're on the radio. I'm so selfish, because people on tv, I think it's like, it's not as intimate a medium. Do you know what I mean? And rightly so. Like, on tv, you see that it's across the room from you when you're watching it.

[Pablo Torre]

It's across the room for you. Or in your case, not in your home at all until the Sopranos shows up.

[Ira Glass]

Exactly. But even on your phone, it's just like a person sitting at a desk. And so it's like. It's just there's a distance and people perform at that distance. And rightly so.

[Pablo Torre]

You gave me a note while we were doing. We did an adaptation of one of my favorite things, the Honduran Maradona story, which is titled the Engineer. Chapter two of a recent episode of this.

[Ira Glass]

Love that show.

[Pablo Torre]

It was so great to work with you and to get under the hood of just, like, production in the ways that I think are clear. I'm genuinely nerding out on. But one of the notes you gave me, which just cut to the core of me and I so genuinely appreciate it, was you said at one point we were doing a table read, and you're like, you don't need to sell as much as you're selling, because I was doing these lines, so to speak, but my energy level was big.

[Ira Glass]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And yours, when you were just saying what you imagined yourself doing, your eyes were literally closed and you got smaller.

[Ira Glass]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And more focused. And you're right, like me coming from the other. I don't even know if television is a coaching tree as much as it is just like a room full of people. You gotta shout over to be heard in that. Just to mix the metaphors here. But like, yes. I now detect, frankly, a thirst. Like, please listen to me. Please be persuaded by me. That is just sort of like what I am maybe now in life as well, on a relative basis, but certainly modulating myself down to that. One on one, I'm talking to one person and my eyes are closed and you're the only person in the audience was a separate exercise that was just fascinating for me to inhabit.

[Ira Glass]

I remember when you were tracking, when you were recording your narration, like, I was listening in. And there was one line where I was encouraging you to do this thing, which is such a standard broadcast trick, where I was just like, just get quieter and lean in on that line. I can't remember what the line was.

[Pablo Torre]

And I was like the Will Ferrell character from SNL who was like, I can't control the volume of my voice. I have a voice related medical condition.

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[Pablo Torre]

I suffer from voice immodulation, Tina. I'm un. Unable to control the pitch or volume of my voice. What do you mean? And I just couldn't. It was funny. Like, I'm glad I. It might literally be taped. I think maybe the zoom was not recorded mercifully, but I just felt like recorded. That was recorded, like, why can I not do this? And it was so. Again, it was just. It was delightful in ways that activated this third ear of like, oh, wow, I am now hearing myself for the first time.

[Ira Glass]

Do it right now. Let the line be like. And then we took it. And then to another level. And to another level. So I want you to just do like. And then we took it to another level.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, God, I'm just gonna. And then we took it to another level.

[Ira Glass]

I mean, it's kind of corny what I'm doing too, you know, it's very corny. I would say that it's a corny move. And I'm sure people.

[Pablo Torre]

No, but me imitating you and I just detected some just like smooth jazz, like me just doing bad cosplay of like a radio guy. You're both easy and hard to imitate. Easy because your voice is now itself a genre where people are like, that's you and I are a glass thing. And can I explain to you what I think that is?

[Ira Glass]

Sure.

[Pablo Torre]

There is this unashamed occasional, just, like, stumbling around, like you're not trying to, again, like, leave perfect edit points. You're allowing yourself to even skate around as if the floor is a little slippery sometimes.

[Ira Glass]

Right.

[Pablo Torre]

And you can bring yourself again, as we just said, down to a smaller level to be more laser focused in on that one hypothetical person. But it's this mixture of what I find to be very hard to replicate of like, total confidence and yet the sort of, like, texture of some uncertainty.

[Ira Glass]

Huh? Yeah. It's funny, I don't think about it that way, but I totally hear what you're talking about? Yes, yes, yes to everything you're saying. Yeah. There's this quality of like, oh, I'm just like, wait, what? So then I got to thinking, you.

[Pablo Torre]

Know, just did the Iraq last thing. And part of me was wondering, like, do you. In your brain, are you scripting that out at all? Are you ever scripting out, like, you know what? This is a big moment. Undercut the authority that you want to sort of imbue this with. With a deliberate stumble around for a second?

[Ira Glass]

100%. Yeah. When I'm writing the script, I'm thinking about all that because I understand the form. It's going to be. It's going to be me talking into a microphone. And so I'm really thinking about, like, how am I going to perform this and when I'm going to get big and when am I going to get small, and when am I going to, you know, just pause and think and wait before giving the next thought? You know what I mean? Like, just sometimes you just. I don't know, it's like, that's the medium. That's the. But that's not working in the medium that I work in and understanding it.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, but now we're getting to the thing that I think about a lot, which is to what extent is doing your job. Our job broadly conceived as acting?

[Ira Glass]

Oh, there's some acting, for sure. Absolutely. I mean, anybody in front of a camera or a microphone, of course you're acting. You're performing a version of yourself. And so that's not a problematic thing. Also, I think of the show that we're doing as an entertainment, even though it's like, journalism and it's fact checked and it's all true. But, like, our premise from the beginning was that although this is on public radio, we don't want it. We don't want people listening. Cause I think it's gonna make them into better people. We want them just listening. Cause they, like, hear a minute of it and they're just like, what's gonna happen? And so, like, I feel like it's like a. I think it's not a shameful thing to say. We're trying to entertain. In fact, like, for the show to be good, we have to embrace it and just be like, we are gonna entertain you. We're gonna. You might think you don't want to hear another story about this subject because it seems a little heavy, but we're just going to start this in a way to make you think, like, oh, yeah, all right, what's going to happen.

[Pablo Torre]

Some of the. I'm trying to steal just how can you be unapologetically highbrow in some regard, but then also how you want to actually just entertain?

[Ira Glass]

I mean, I think that, like, being out for fun kind of gets a bad name except for people who enjoy things, you know what I mean? I think the notion that there's tons of podcasts out there which are really just out for fun, but then have like some other serious thing that they're doing at the same time, that seems like a great outcome, you know what I mean? Like, that's, that's like I feel that makes me really happy.

[Pablo Torre]

I think part of what you've proven is that this can be a popular thing. That's also good. One of the things that made this clear to me, by the way, the theatricality of it, is the live shows that you do, which I was just revisiting on YouTube and like, one of the things I forgot, you did this story in 2012 that got turned into a literal 14 minute musical.

[Ira Glass]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

By Lin Manuel Miranda.

[Ira Glass]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

The plan was called Operation D Minus. And one of the schools included in the plan was Park Vista Community High School, where a kid named Justin Leboy. That's me, an 18 year old. Honor rolls.

[Ira Glass]

I get straight A's.

[Pablo Torre]

Man was in the last semester of his senior year. Justin could hardly believe his luck when a very pretty girl showed up.

[Ira Glass]

In.

[Pablo Torre]

Not one but two of his classes. She sat in front of him, he switched seats and you did this. You unveiled it at Bam on stage.

[Ira Glass]

Bam. The Brooklyn Academy of Music.

[Pablo Torre]

You're so good at that, man.

[Ira Glass]

She used to fall asleep in class. She was a light skinned Puerto Rican Dominican. Long hair, mature in a body like whoa. Like, whoa. That's not the only reason I liked her though. She said she moved with her mother to Florida from New York, where dreams are made. Well, so did I. So I said hi. She seemed mature and I talk more.

[Pablo Torre]

And I went back and listened and I'm like, who the How? So give me the origin story of 21 Chump Street.

[Ira Glass]

We got invited to do a show at the Brooklyn Academy of Music and we thought that's a really special place and we should try to live up to what that stage means. And we were just casting around for stuff to do. And then I was a fan of Lin's. This is before Hamilton actually. Like, he was. He was finishing writing Hamilton. I remember him talking about it with all of us, about how he was having trouble at the point. He was just like, at the end. And apparently the ending was sort of tricky to write. Anyway, he nailed it, I guess. But whatever. We thought it would be fun to do a musical. Like, I really love musicals and I think a lot of the aesthetics of our show actually come from my mom taking me to musicals when I was a kid. Like, the idea of like a story that starts off sort of funny and light and about one thing and then just gets deeper and darker and about bigger things. That's like so many of the old, kind of classic old school musicals. I texted her, you know, I was like, what the heck I gotta do to be with you?

[Pablo Torre]

Hello. Lol.

[Ira Glass]

What the heck I gotta do to be with you?

[Pablo Torre]

R O F. Lol.

[Ira Glass]

Tell me who I gotta be for you to be with me. Smiley face.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Ira Glass]

That's how they all work. And I really think that, like on our show, that's very much like the structure of the show that we do. Like, just. That just got drilled into me from those musicals. And so, like, I like musicals and it seemed fun. And basically we went to Lynn and said, here's a bunch of different stories that we think could maybe be a musical. Do you want to write something? And then he was really in the middle of writing Hamilton and then Rose that musical in like a weekend, which is crazy. It's absurd. Yeah. And like took a break from his day job of making like one of the all time great musicals to do that thing. Later I asked him, why did you pick this one? And one of the reasons why was because in the original true story, like, we based it on a story that had been reported by a really good Washington Post reporter, actually, and done for our show. And in the original reporting, the teenage boy, there's a moment where he's trying to oppress this girl and he serenades her in class. And Lynn is like, well, that's what happens in a musical. Somebody serenades somebody in class. And so he's like, okay, so I've got that. I've got that down. Nailed it. And then there were other things about it that he liked too. Naomi, you know me. Will you go to prom with me?

[Pablo Torre]

I'll think about it.

[Ira Glass]

She'll think about it. She'll think about it. She'll think about it. She said to think about it. To think about it. To think about it.

[Pablo Torre]

Think about it.

[Ira Glass]

To think about it. To think about it.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Ira Glass]

So, yeah, so that was exciting to do. I remember he did the musical. And then in the same show, Mike Birbiglia was the comedian who he had on for that show. And he came on after it and his opening line was, like, it's really hard to come on after a musical. Like, I've never been like the musical. So brought the house down. And then he had to go on and like, do his story well.

[Pablo Torre]

Cause the musical again, Anthony Ramos, who is in Hamilton, is the teenage boy in question. And he knocks this out of the park.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, he's amazing.

[Pablo Torre]

It's just stupid. I mean, but it's just like. So in this case, to go and pick up a couple of breadcrumbs you dropped along the way, like this was journalism turned into opera.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Into actual musical theater.

[Ira Glass]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And the desire for your show. And I say this all the time, like, what I want, what do I want to do here? I want every show to be a mystery box inside of which anything can be there, there. And that's nice. That's this American life. I mean, that's what it is. It's a magazine. It's. It's open mailbox.

[Ira Glass]

On a good week. On a good week. Some weeks we don't live up to. To that much promise, but like, I don't know, we make a lot of shows. Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, you make a lot of shows. I would say that 30 years of shows is, you know, I don't know, testament to the fact that they're mostly.

[Ira Glass]

Good or enough of them are good. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Dude, did you order the new iPhone 17 Pro?

[Ira Glass]

Got it from Verizon, the best 5G network in America.

[Pablo Torre]

I never looked so good.

[Ira Glass]

You look the same.

[Pablo Torre]

But with this camera, everything looks better.

[Ira Glass]

Especially me. You haven't changed your hair in 15 years. Selfies check please.

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[Pablo Torre]

Are you somebody who, when you see something, the ultimate compliment is jealousy or. No, it's not jealousy, it's something else that's less toxic.

[Ira Glass]

When I see something that I like. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

That you like and you're like, I wanna do something like that, or I wish I had done that, or. Are you not the type of person who.

[Ira Glass]

No, no, I do feel jealous of stuff, for sure. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

When did you last feel jealous about something?

[Ira Glass]

I have to say, Monday through Thursday of the Daily last week, every single episode, I was like, that was really the optimal way to do that story. And they were in order. I was like, and also just. They're doing it with such speed.

[Pablo Torre]

That's good. For the partnership with New York.

[Ira Glass]

They're hitting.

[Pablo Torre]

Let's go here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ira Glass]

They did Charlie Crook's memorial on Monday and did a great job of taking you into moments there. Tuesday, they did the Trump Tylenol autism press conference and again, gave you the conference, gave you the. Gave you the analysis of it. And just like, very. It's just like very clean work in a way that I think anybody who makes. Who makes stuff makes audio. You could just feel like they're hitting their plot points so cleanly. The next day, they did a thing on how the UAE got AI chips and all of Trump's inner circle got all this money in exchange. The next day, they did a story that I've been obsessed with, and they did such a good job about the US killing people on boats around Venezuela and the legal justification, or lack of justification. It was just like a perfect run of shows. And at the end of it, it felt very admiring and jealous at the, like, just every single one kind of gave you what. What you wanted if you were me. I mean, and those weren't like, those weren't narrative either. Those were just like. Those were just like kind of walking through stuff, having an analysis, doing it just. They just did it really well. But I hear a lot of stuff on podcasts that I feel like, oh, that was. That was great. Like, I hear a lot of stuff.

[Pablo Torre]

So the Daily as. As its own now template also feels like, by the way, it's Borrowed from you in some regard, if you're tracing it back. Right.

[Ira Glass]

I mean, like the fact that generally they structure as narrative structure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. That's for sure. But then, like, do their own thing.

[Pablo Torre]

They do it five plus days a week.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Has any of that made you think, you know what, this whole once a week cadence I'm on, I wish I could do something that's not that.

[Ira Glass]

No, I don't think that. But I do think that the show that we're doing, I wonder if it's the right show for this moment in America that is. I feel like we can keep making narrative stories and we do a lot of stories about the changes that are happening in the country because the Trump administration and looking at the effects of the policies that are happening and we're trying to do them as like, narrative stories that unfold like little movies and you get to know the people and like. And including. We do some scoops. Like, you know, two weeks ago we got all these immigration judges to talk about what's going on behind the scenes at immigration court that nobody really talks about. And like, you know, so we get stuff like that. But I wonder if this moment is really better served by a different kind of product. And then my thoughts on that are kind of like, I don't know, like. Yeah, and I do have thoughts about that, honestly, like, one of the things I've been thinking about a lot is like, should we be making an addition to the radio show? Should we be doing stuff online, on videos, be on TikTok? Like, I just, I just think like, like, should we just get more into the stream and less. And be less of like this little island?

[Pablo Torre]

You're asking yourself and your staff, should we all really know who the Rizzler is?

[Ira Glass]

I think most people, my staff probably do know who the Rizzler is.

[Pablo Torre]

But, but let's, let's, let's just as we sort of like, look ahead to this 30th anniversary, which you don't want to celebrate at all. Clearly the, the premise of if you.

[Ira Glass]

No, no, no, it's fine. We'll commemorate it in some way.

[Pablo Torre]

But, but, but just the question of if you were to make this American life today, what would be the most sort of distinct feature of it that would not be the thing that you've been nursing for 30 years?

[Ira Glass]

I think if I were to make something today, it wouldn't be this American life. Like, we live in a world where there's so many people doing narrative audio. I feel like we've proven that point, that that's like a fun way to make something and it can be engaging and there'd be no reason to do a show to prove that point and to explore what could that be. So to make something else, like, I don't know, like, for me, the thing that I'm interested in is, is. Is could you make a show targeted at. Targeted at the people who are not reading the New York Times and not interested in fact based reporting and make a show that is actually made for them. And the aesthetics of like, you know, Rogan or somebody like that, it's like really, really talking about somebody who's absolutely fact based. Like, I wouldn't be the right host for it. I could. You know what I mean? Like, like you would need somebody who's of that world, and in that world, you know, you would need a comedian to do it. But like, that kind of question seems more interesting to me because we're in a moment where, like, it's possible to make product for people who agree, like, the facts matter or the facts don't matter and something else matters. But like to get any product that can cross from red to blue America or blue to red America, or exist for both America, that seems like the more interesting challenge right now.

[Pablo Torre]

What would the Ira Glass experience, the four hour Joe Rogan equivalent podcast that you would host would be.

[Ira Glass]

When I hear his show, I just think like, oh, I just fact check that. In fact, I thought a decent product would be to do a show not in a mean way, but in a super friendly way that when like, Kash Patel, the FBI director, is on Joe Rogan, Cash Patel will say, like, you know, we caught. You know, we caught. I can't remember what it was like, seven of the ten most wanted criminals in the world. And then Joe Rogan's like, really? Like, how'd you do that? And he's like, well, you know, just in the first couple months we did it. And the way that we did it is we actually called other police departments around the world and said, could you extradite this guy? And then Joe Rogan is like, wait, wait, wait, you're saying that the Biden administration just didn't bother to make a phone call? And then Kash Patel just kind of like goes off and just says some other bs and you're just like, what he needs is a team of reporters to just step in and be like, joe, Joe, we ran it down for you. Okay, so here's what happened. And you would do a show that's Entirely just like running down the facts the guests evade. Or that hosted by Burt Kreischer or like, you know what I mean? And then some nerdy Poindexter next to him, you know, who is being like. And not in an unfriendly way to Joe.

[Pablo Torre]

Sure.

[Ira Glass]

We don't mean him harm. We'd be there to help him out. Yeah. And then, and then maybe pick up some of his. Pick up some of his listeners who might be interested in a kind of a fact based product.

[Pablo Torre]

I like how you go into this mission. In my mind, what happens is you accidentally reinvent this American life with Bert Kreischer. You're like, oh, we made the show again.

[Ira Glass]

Can I just say, like, I love Bert Kreischer, so that wouldn't be a problem for me. Why do you.

[Pablo Torre]

How. Okay, so just as a general stereotype.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

You liking the dude who is mostly, in my view, known for being shirtless and like, chugging beer. That tickles you.

[Ira Glass]

That's not why people love Bert Kreischer. Bert Kreischer is like, he's funny and he tells stories that are funny and he talks about his wife and he talks. Bert Kreischer is there for all of us. And Bert Kreischer, I don't know. Like, I don't know. Like, he, he. I don't know. I mean, honestly, it's been a little while since I've heard, like, I haven't heard what he's been doing like the last six months or a year. So I don't, you know, maybe something's changed. But, like, he was always just like a really fun person to listen to.

[Pablo Torre]

I have no way to ever know what you're into. I was asking my staff, was asking some of your staff, what does Ira know about sports? And it was a very funny scouting report because it was like, I think Ira watched the super bowl this year, question mark. And I think he, like, was in Chicago when, like, Michael Jordan was, like, winning all those titles. What is your relationship like with sports?

[Ira Glass]

You literally, like, named the only two plot points I've got. Like, literally. I saw the super bowl because I was out in San Diego with my cousins and we, it seemed like to watch the super bowl. And it was really fun to watch the Super Bowl. And then the only kind of sports thing that I ever followed at all was the Bulls back when Michael Jordan was there.

[Pablo Torre]

I think we should go to a Knicks game. We're both in New York, the New Yorkers.

[Ira Glass]

I'd love to go to A Knicks game. I'd love to go to a Knicks game. All right, But I don't understand, like, I just don't. I don't know. When a team starts losing, the fact that people just stay with the team and they just. I don't know, it just seems hard. Just seems like choosing a life of punishment, you know, like. Like just. Just wait till they get better. And.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm sorry, was the Sopranos not a story of a man fighting through personal demons in increasingly psychotherapeutic ways?

[Ira Glass]

I mean, I know that every sentence I'm saying is just ridiculous to any sports fan, but like, but like, but I see the pain but that my sports friends go through and I just feel like that's a pain that I don't have. But yeah, I would love to go to a Knicks game.

[Pablo Torre]

What you have, what I realize now is that you have. Have the truly undeniable self satisfaction of somebody who only experienced Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls. I know we're just supposed to win. Wait a minute, you guys, don't. You're not winning all the time.

[Ira Glass]

Why are you watching? Why would you keep coming to games? It seems really depressing.

[Pablo Torre]

Ira, I thank you for doing this and I. I suppose before I let you go, I just want to insist on the fact that if your staff is too cowardly to throw your show the 30th anniversary party you deserve, Pablo Torre finds out is here to fill that floor. We're going to unilaterally shove compliments down your throat like the leftist sandwich that you've reported debate.

[Ira Glass]

Okay, well, thank you. I appreciate that. I'll get back to you on that one.

[Pablo Torre]

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production and I'll talk to you next time.

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[Pablo Torre]

So farewell oatmeal. So long use strange soggy break up.

[Ira Glass]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Ira Glass]

And melty cheese on a buttery biscuit.

[Pablo Torre]

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[Ira Glass]

Right across America, people listen to the Tony and Ryan podcast every day.

[Pablo Torre]

That's us.

[Ira Glass]

By the way, I'm Ryan, this is my best friend Tony out. Don't just take our word for it.

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[Pablo Torre]

How did you discover our podcast? I first discovered Tony and Ryan as of recommendation. They absolutely exceeded my expectations to the point where I was like, I must be a part of the same crowd.

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Oh my God. I've never been part of the in crowd before.

[Ira Glass]

Well, you're part of this one. I'm Tony in crowd. Wait, she'll work on that. You come listen. Tony and Ryan.